For many of us that came out of families of origin that were toxic, we truly do not know what healthy looks like. So what behaviors are healthy? What should we be looking for in family, friends, partners, or even co-workers? What does healthy actually look like?

In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses what healthy family, friends, partners, etc. look like.

Resource/link mentioned in this episode: Six Characteristics of a Healthy Family

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hi, guys, hi, everybody. Lucky is hanging out in the background, I hope you guys don’t mind. So, you may notice that we are not in our normal spot. John and I are trying to stay the hell out of the heat. So that’s kind of the current event for today. So, Phoenix is, thank you, Lucky, Phoenix is going into its, I think, 15th day of over 110. Now that is unusual; it is about to break a record that’s been ongoing, I mean, it’s not been broken since 1974. So um, it’s supposed to be 117. It’s supposed to be 117 today. Um, so this is unusual. And I am concerned. Because there’s several things going on, I pulled up a router’s article, but I want to talk about one of the irresponsibility of some of the town managers, and I use the term managers loosely. So, in Gilbert, at least, they are building like crazy. And they’re taking small plots of land, and they’re putting high rises on it. And they’re putting multifamily housing there. So like apartment buildings, condominiums, etc., etc., etc. They’ve done nothing for the infrastructure, and they’re doing nothing about the water situation.

So, Gilbert lost water during the whole Colorado River thing, where they were deciding who got what. So, it’s going to be dicey for Southwest communities. Because there’s no planning, they haven’t planned, they don’t, they’re not thinking about, you know the water that’s going to be needed for these huge, literally huge high rises and multifamily housing, etc., etc., etc. If you may notice, I’ve been gone the last few weeks. We’re looking to get out, honestly, because I don’t trust that the water situation is going to improve. And I don’t trust that the town managers are going to manage it correctly. So um, anyway, that is my current event. Is that yeah, there is an issue, there is a water issue going on in the southwest. And to ignore that is to be really stupid, you know, putting your head in the sand and going, Oh, it’s going to get better. Oh, we’re not going to do anything about it, it’s going to get better. No, it’s not. You keep shoving more and more people into a small space. And you keep getting rid of the resources. And, oh, here’s the other thing I want to mention is that we sold our water rights to the Saudis.

So, the aquifer is getting drained. The aquifer is basically nonexistent now because we’ve sold it to the Saudis. So, I’m having a real problem with being managed, at least in the southwest. I don’t know what’s going on in other parts of the country. But you can’t have a sustainable…. What’s the word I’m looking for? A sustainable way of life if you’re selling your resources to foreign countries, and if you’re not planning for drought, or global warming, or whatever, so regardless of what you think about global warming, the truth of the matter is the Colorado is drying up, period, whether it’s global warming or not, you know, and, and more people are coming into a desert that has no water so far. It’s been a nonsoon. So, we have not really had a monsoon. So, Arizona gets more than half of its water during the monsoon. If we don’t get a monsoon, the aquifers are not able to replenish. And that’s a big problem, especially if they’re gone. So anyway, we are now going on 15 days over 110 degrees. That is not normal. I’ve lived there for 21 years. 22 years, good God, 22 years. And that is not normal. We would get like a week, you know, maybe have 110, 105, 110. But it’s supposed to be 117 today in Phoenix, and it’s supposed to go up from there, they’re predicting 119, 120. And they close the airport, I think at 120 because the airplanes can’t get lift. So anyway, there is that. So, all right.

Okay, so the question today was that people wanted me to talk about was, what does a family, a healthy family look like? So, what does a healthy family look like? What do healthy friends look like? What do healthy romantic partners look like? What is that? Because when we come from a family of origin that is dysfunctional, they put the fun in dysfunction. We don’t know what healthy is. And when we start experiencing healthy, it can be frightening to us, let’s be honest about that. It can be frightening. It can be, it can be boring, it can be considered strange, it can be considered, you know, oh my gosh. So, I wanted to talk about that. So, let’s dive into what a healthy family is.

All right, this is on Psychology Today. And this is by Kaytee Gillis LCSW. And it’s called Six Characteristics of Healthy Families. So, all right. So, while each family is different, there are some common elements that can contribute to a healthy family environment, respecting opinions and personal needs, as well as showing respect, are all part of healthy family systems. So, I want to talk a little bit, I’m going to break this down and talk about a little bit of each. So, in an unhealthy family, there’s no respect, there’s no boundaries. And they sure as heck don’t respect differing opinions. So, in a healthy family, there’s great communication, like really good communication, lots of I statements, lots of feeling statements, I feel lots of acknowledgment of the other person, I hear what you’re saying. Let me make sure you understand that I get what you’re saying. And you get what I’m saying. So, there’s lots of reflective listening.

So just like in real estate, where it’s location, location, location, in healthy relationships, whether it’s a family, whether it’s a partner, whether it’s a friend, it’s communication, communication, communication, and respect. So, remember, love and respect are one and the same if you respect somebody, you love them, if you love them, you respect them. So, in a healthy family, there’s respect. Other people’s opinions are valued. The kids’ opinions are valued. Let’s be clear about that. So, when a child says for example, you know, I don’t like Brussels sprouts, please don’t make me eat those. The parent will go okay. We’ll try a little bit. Okay, you don’t like it? Okay, let me get a different veggie. Let’s do something like that. You don’t have to eat the Brussels sprouts. Never force your kids to eat stuff they don’t like. That’s how you create eating disorders. Guys, I’m not kidding you. And the parents, like I said, that would be like finish your plate. You need to eat everything and then tell them they’re too fat. That’s disrespect. That’s crazy. That’s crazy. So, there’s no gaslighting in healthy families. They don’t say one thing. And when you call them on it, they don’t turn around and go. I never said that. What they do is they go Yeah, you’re right. I did say that. Let’s work it through. I know it’s like foreign language to us, having come out of a dysfunctional relationship or a dysfunctional family. So, in a healthy family. It’s respect. It’s understanding, there’s lots of understanding. There’s not a sense of us versus them. In a dysfunctional family, it’s us versus them, turning the kids against each other, playing you know, playing each other against the middle.

Kris Godinez  09:24

There’s lots of that there’s lots of, you know, what’s the word I’m looking for, game playing in dysfunctional families. In healthy families, there’s none of that. So, for example, in a dysfunctional family, there’s a lot of triangulation of communication. Well, Susie said that Billy said that you, Okay? There’s the triangle, right? And here’s the operator. So, there’s none of that in healthy communications and healthy families. If somebody starts gossiping, the good parent, the smart parent, the healthy parent shuts that stuff down so fast your head will spin. Nope, we’re not going to talk about other people. And if we are, then we’re going to get them on the phone. And we’re going to clear this up right now. So, there’s none of that communication of, you know, triangulation of communication. So let me go back to the healthy six characteristics of healthy families, respecting opinions, respecting healthy emotional and physical boundaries, children and other family members have privacy. Man, I had none of that in my family, there was no privacy. And all members understand and respect that.

In healthy families, parents do most of the emotional work with their children, with their children, by modeling empathy, self-control, and appropriate behaviors in response to emotions or stress, the role of the child is to learn. So, in unhealthy families, what they do is they expect that kid to be a mini adult. And they expect the kid to know stuff just out of the blue, you know, you should have picked it up from the airwaves, seriously. So, when a child misbehaves or is having big emotions, the parent comes unglued. When the, when the kid’s like maybe three years old, right? Kids don’t have the cognitive ability to do the heavy lifting with the emotions, they get huge emotions, and they don’t know what to do with them. So, it’s our job as a healthy parent, to do the heavy lifting and show them. This is how we deal with big emotions. This is how we have understanding. This is how we have compassion. This is how we have empathy. And this is how we have good boundaries, you know, we teach them it is the role of the child to learn. It is our role as healthy adults to teach them with compassion, with patients, with love with kindness, which is something that abusers don’t do. They’re impatient, they’re not kind, they’re expecting you to act like an adult when you’re three, you know, and that’s not normal. None of that is normal. So, a healthy parent is patient and kind and loving. And, you know, hey, you’re having a big emotion. Let me help you with that. Let me teach you how to deal with big emotions because big emotions are hard for adults, too. Instead of stop your crying, you don’t get to have an emotion. You’re wrong. How dare you? You know, and I’ve seen abusers do that. I’ve experienced abusers doing that. Okay, back to Healthy Families Hold on.

Um, seeing each family member as an individual with their own opinion, everyone is allowed to have an opinion. And all family members should respect and allow those opinions to be expressed and respected. That’s not in there, but I’m throwing it in as long as they are respectful. Even if adults make the final decision. In families where there’s, there is little room for differing opinions. It is common for children to grow up into adults who do not know who they are, because the parents are always telling them. No, you don’t like that. No, you don’t want that. No, you don’t. So, a great example is a kid goes to a grocery store, right? And little kids do this all the time. I want the candy bar; I want that, I want that. Instead of going, Yes, honey, I know you want that. And we’re not going to get it this trip. We don’t have the money for it, or we don’t have it budgeted, or it’s not good for you, or whatever. But you acknowledge Yes. You do want that. Absolutely. I get it. You want that. And right now, you can’t have it. I’m sorry.

So, you’re teaching the kids to learn to live with disappointment, number one. And number two, you’re acknowledging their want, you’re acknowledging their I see this, I want this, okay, I see that you want that, and not this trip. Next trip. We’ll do it next trip, but then you have to honor your word and do it next trip. So, it trust teaching them trust. So how many times do parents go, oh, we’ll do it next time. And the next time comes, and they don’t do it. If you’re not going to follow through on it, don’t say that you’re going to do it, you got to be. You are only as good as your word. And trust is only as good as your word. So there that is, let me continue and the opinions. So, this is something that is very common in borderline, histrionic, and narcissistic personality disorders is that it’s their way or the highway. If you don’t have the same exact opinion that they do, it’s a threat to them. Well, I like it. So, everyone has to like it. Everyone has to think the way I do because I’m always right. That’s how they think. So, when a child says, but I don’t like this, but I don’t want to go to Aunt Bertha’s house or whatever. And the narcissist or The abuser or whoever pipes up and goes, Oh, I love Aunt Bertha, you need to love Aunt Bertha. No, the child does not. If the child doesn’t like somebody, the child doesn’t like somebody. The child doesn’t like going somewhere; then the child doesn’t like going somewhere, you know, well, I’m sorry, you don’t like going down to Aunt Bertha’s you don’t have to like it. But we have to go visit. Okay? Do you see where I’m going with that, and it’s not always going to go in the child’s direction. But acknowledging the child’s opinion and personality, disordered people have an incredibly difficult time accepting that somebody doesn’t think the way they do. That’s why they do all the heinous things that they do because that’s what they would do. But then they say, Well, you were going to screw me over, you were going to do this, you were going to do that. Now they’re talking about themselves. They cannot imagine that we have a different inner life than they do. Seriously.

So, in healthy families, differing opinions are not only accepted but they’re also encouraged. What do you think? How was your day? What do you think about this? What do you think about that? What do you there’s conversation, there’s not just a monologue by a frickin abuser. Does that make sense? So, at the dinner table, for example, there’s conversations. It’s like, how was your day? What did you do? What was the fun part of your day? You know, I love my nephew Vernon does this great thing with his kids. And I’ve adopted it. And I do this with all the kids now. We go around the table, and we say what the best part of the day was, what the worst part of the day was, what we’d like to do again, and what we never want to do again, right? And so, we and then we discuss, you know, it’s like, well, tell me more? And what about this? What about the hell cool, you know, and I understand, and you know, that kind of thing. So, it’s a conversation, and the kids feel a part of the community, they feel a part of the family. How many of us grew up with authoritarian parents where they were God and we had to sit at the little kid’s table, and the adults had adult conversations, and the kids were over here. And or if the kids were at the table, they were to be seen and not heard in so many on so many different levels. You know, and that’s not a healthy relationship. A healthy relationship is inclusive. A healthy relationship is you are my progeny. You are my children. I love you. And I want to hear about your day. authoritarians are like, Oh, I had such a hard day. And I’m going to give you a monologue on how hard my day was. And I don’t want to hear about your day. That’s not parenting. That’s dictatorship. Thank you.

So, and that’s what they do, though. That’s what abusers do. So, it’s really important to include your children. I mean, they’re only going to be young once, guys, I cannot tell you the importance. Kids are all about experiences and emotions, experiences and emotions. And those are the things that they’re going to remember when I am long gone and I am dust in the wind, I can guarantee you, all of the little ones that I’ve had in my life are going to be talking about how fun it was to have conversations where they had with Aunt Kris and Dad and Mom and Uncle John, and you know this, that the other thing and doing this fun thing and talking about, that’s what they’re going to remember, okay? You don’t want your kids when you’re gone to be sitting there going Thank Jesus, that son of a huh is gone. You know what I’m saying? You want them to remember you fondly, and you want to give them good memories and good experiences that they can then model for their children so that we have healthy people on this planet instead of dysfunctional, numbed out, not connected, not validating themselves low self-esteem. Do you see where I’m going with this? Healthy Families are so important. Communication is so important. inclusiveness with the kids is so important for their self-esteem for their well-being. You’re modeling for them how to be an adult, how to be a person, and differing opinions. You’re teaching them how to handle differing opinions. Hmm. Funny how adults in this country can’t do that.

Kris Godinez  19:21

If there’s a differing opinion, it’s an attack. You’re stupid. You’re this, You’re that, Baba, baba bah instead of well, tell me more about your differing opinion. I don’t agree with it. But I understand why you’re having it. Simple manners, guys simple manners in and interest in the other person. And that’s the weird thing is that when people become split, right, and it’s their way or the highway, and they’re going to be right at all costs, and they’re going to say, literally whatever they need to shut you up so that they don’t have to think because remember their behavior is about them, not about you. When they do that, it makes the other person go, oh, I don’t want anything to do with you. And it’s simultaneously watching karma in play and sad to watch an abuser be accusatory and nasty and vicious and damning. And how dare you have a differing opinion in this than the other thing. People don’t want to be around them. You know, at least people that are like themselves don’t want to be around somebody who makes them feel like doo-doo. And then they can’t understand it, then they’re like, why don’t I have any friends? Well, maybe it’s because of the way you talk to people. Maybe it’s the way you call names. Maybe it’s the way you’re abusive. Maybe it’s the way you see where I’m going. But you never get through to him. This is the thing, guys. Trust me. I’ve been doing this for years. Abusers do not change. They don’t. They would rather go to the grave right. As opposed to going. I screwed up. How can I do this differently? How can I make amends? How can I make this easier? How can I make this better? So, there is that so healthy people acknowledge when they’ve screwed up, healthy parents tell their kids, that was the wrong way for me to react. I’m sorry, I yelled. That was totally incorrect. It’s you’re not the problem. You’re not the problem. I’m having a stressful day, and I shouldn’t have taken it out on you. It’s going to happen, guys, but own your own stuff. You they’re your little ones are not responsible for your emotions any more than you are responsible for your parents’ emotions. How are we doing on time? Okay, let me get through this because I got a couple more articles.

Okay, setting consistent, fair, and age-appropriate rules and expectations. All families have rules, and it would be normal to find homes with different sets, but rules that are inconsistent and not age appropriate create an environment of confusion and chaos. Children are still growing and learning, so a caregiver’s expectation of them should not be the same as their expectations of themselves or other adults, and I talked about that earlier.

Okay, meeting each person’s needs appropriately. All members are concerned with the health and well-being of others but in an age-appropriate way. Parents provide emotional care for their children, not the other way around, as best they can. Other members also seek to meet their other family member’s needs. So, here’s the deal. How many times did we, as children of abusers, or narcissists, or borderlines, or histrionics, or whatever. How many times did we end up being the adult at age six? A lot. How many times did we realize that we were the caregivers? Because Mom and Dad were too busy with their own emotional storm, where Mom and dad were incapacitated by drugs or alcohol, or Mom and dad or whatever. Okay. So, the kids end up being emotionally responsible for the adults, as opposed to the adults being emotional, emotionally responsible for the children. That is too heavy of a burden for an adult for a child to carry adult emotions. It’s too heavy. Kids can’t cope with it. They cognitively do not have the skills to do so. So, this is why it’s really important to work on the inner child workbook and get all of that caregiving. And that parental fineness dealt with so that it does not get handed down to the next generation. So, adults are responsible for their own emotions. They do not make the children a second parent, a second spouse, you know, responsible for caretaking little ones, you know, especially when they’re little ones themselves. You know, we’ve talked about all this. So yeah, super important. Okay, hold on.

All members of the family feel safe and secure. Children in healthy families feel safe, learning, making mistakes, growing, they have a healthy understanding of mistakes and understand that they will not be challenged or punished, adding punished. Their security or safety is assured. Love is unconditional. So, in abusive families, if you make a mistake, and we’ve talked about this, they will rub your nose in it. Mistakes are not allowed. You know, you’re bad, you’re wrong. You’re stupid. You’re this. You’re that name-calling blah, blah. So, the mistakes are the way we learn. That’s how we learn. Earth is school, guys, when you are a little one. Earth is a school. Earth is how we learn, little ones. That’s how they learn. We make mistakes, how does it baby learn to walk, they toddle along. They fall on their butt, and They giggle hopefully, and then they stand back up. And then they toddle along and figure out balance. Oh, and then they fall, and then they toddle along. And that’s how they understand how their bodies work. That’s how they understand how to have balance quite literally, how to walk, how to balance, how to duck under the table. Do you see where I’m going with that?

So, mistakes are allowed, but with an abuser, mistakes are punished or made fun of or whatever, and you never feel safe. So, if you’re wondering why so many of us come out of an abusive family and we have perfectionistic issues, perfect pictures, we have to be perfect. We have to be perfect; we have to be perfect. That’s the reason why. Because we got punished when we weren’t perfect, right? But the truth of the matter is, none of us walk on water unless it’s frozen. And even at that, I have a hard time with it. But you know what I’m saying? It’s like, you make mistakes. That’s how we learn. You correct the mistakes. You make amends. You do what you need to clean it up and move on. Abusers will carry grudges; abusers will carry grudges. And even if you clean up that mistake with an abuser, I can guarantee you they’ll bring it back up a year later, 20 years later, whatever. That is not how normal healthy, normal families function. They don’t go, oh, remember the time you did that. They never do that. They never do that. So, there is that.

Healthy families expect mistakes and are forgiving of them in a healthy way. The family members understand that we are all human. And learning and growing conflict is handled in an appropriate and safe way. With adults modeling appropriate ways to manage disagreements and disputes. These family explore, these families explore mistakes to understand and improve instead of winning or shaming people. Children understand that they will be children that understand they will be punished for unacceptable behavior, but that they will also be forgiven for making mistakes instead of having them held against them for years after. So, if you do unacceptable behavior, there’s consequences, I would change the word punishing to consequences. There’s consequences for unacceptable behavior, but those mistakes will not be held against them years after. So, take a moment to think about your family history and if you remember any of the above characteristics, often people who have experienced family of origin trauma will not have these experiences. Raise your hand. Hello. Yeah, didn’t have any of those good experiences, the list can just give you an idea of what to look for in a healthy familial relationship. So that’s a great article on Psychology Today, Six Characteristics of Healthy Families.

Okay, I wanted to go into is your friendship healthy. So healthy families, healthy friendships, healthy relationships, in a healthy friendship you want to share, and it’s not a means to an end. So, with narcissists, the only time they want to share is if they’re upset, they’re angry, and they want to be the center of attention. They don’t ever, you know, there’s always an agenda. There’s always a reason why they’re getting a hold of you. They want something, right? Emotionally, monetarily, whatever. With a friendship with a healthy friendship, you just shoot the breeze for no reason. Like there’s no agenda. Like, how was your day? What are you doing? Hey, are you going to go see the Haunted Mansion movie? Great, cool. Let’s go. You know, that’s that kind of thing. You know, you don’t call necessarily to be like, I want something or, you know, whatever, you just call to just chit chat and enjoy each other’s company. There’s no guilt-tripping. There’s no…and same thing in families. There’s no guilt tripping. There’s no guilt tripping. There’s no making a person wrong for taking care of themselves. Absolutely. Same thing with friendships. So, there is that, okay, you when you want to share, you just call them up just to have the conversation.

Kris Godinez  28:52

And you do things like, you know, you share memes, or you share funny stories or jokes or whatever. And it’s just this sense of camaraderie. With a narcissist or an abuser. There’s never a sense of camaraderie. There’s never this sense of we’re in this together. It’s always kind of like predatory. It’s like, you know, you feel like they want something, or they, you know, they need something from you, or they, it’s conditional. Again, friendship is unconditional. Friendship is unconditional. It’s like, you know, it’s respect. Its respect based. It’s not like do this, and I’ll like you. It’s like, Hey, I just like hanging out with you. That’s a friendship. In a true friendship, you seek out each other’s advice and opinions and help, and you do so equally. It’s not one-sided. It’s not one’s the Savior, and one’s the victim. It’s like it’s equal. You go to each other and chit-chat and talk things over. You feel connected. You have lots in common, but not in a love-bombing kind of way. They have their own thing. You have your own thing, but you also have things that you enjoy doing together. So, it’s not like, you know, you like ice cream. I like ice cream. If you’d like to ice skate, I like to ice skate, but it’s not like that. It’s like they have their stuff that they like to do, and you have your stuff that you like to do. But then you also have things in common that you like to do. You enjoy your time together; it never feels draining. So, something to think about is how do you feel after you’ve been with people. Do you feel exhausted? Do you feel drained? Do you feel? Or conversely, if you’re with somebody healthy? Do you feel energized? Do you feel happy? Do you feel supported? Do you feel heard? Do you feel validated? So healthy friends validate support, hear you, you know, they’re there for you. They’re not just fair-weather friends. They’re not just there when it’s convenient for them. So, think about how you feel when you’re with people. And people who are disordered tend to be very draining because it’s literally Me, me, me I, I, I, more, my genitals. That’s all they care about. And the other thing of it is to is it in a healthy relationship, each party talks about what they’re doing and listens to what the other one is doing. In an unhealthy friendship the other person starts to talk after hearing this person share, and the narcissist or the abuser will then change the conversation so comes right back around to them, so that they get to talk again. So that’s something to watch out for. healthy friendships don’t do that. They allow each party to share and talk about things and not keep bringing it back to them. So that’s something to watch out for. Okay?

You think about them fondly. You feel supported. You have good memories. healthy friendships are not fostered by accident, it takes intentional effort to develop a strong bond. When your relationship is healthy, you are happy to invest your resources, you make time in your busy schedule, you’re there to support them. You trust that you wouldn’t need to monitor interest if you loan the money. In other words, you trust there’s trust, there’s respect, in unhealthy relationships, relationships, you may be wearier, you may be exhausted, you may not trust them. There’s a lack of trust, accountability and respect. So, think about how you feel with people. You feel respected in a healthy friendship. You can be yourself and have your own opinions. And this is you’re going to see similarities. Okay. Okay, one more article, and then we’re going to dive into questions.

All right, eight elements of a healthy relationship. And this is by Kaytee Gillis, LCSW. Due to their long history of normalizing unhealthy behaviors, trauma survivors may struggle to identify healthy behaviors and relationships. Yes, to those who grew up in families with lots of conflict or dysfunction of first experience, and a healthy relationship can feel foreign. So, if you read my book, what’s Wrong with your dad, when John and I first got together, and I realized that he was serious, and this was serious, and we were going to be a thing, we were going to be a couple. I panicked, and I looked at him, and I said, I want to date other people because I wasn’t ready, in my head, for a healthy relationship at that point, I didn’t think I deserved it, and I was still working on my self-esteem. And I freaked out because I’d never been in a relationship where I wasn’t struggling, where it came so easily, where it was so comfortable, where it was so natural, where it was. So, no judgment, and, you know, just enjoying each other’s company. So, when we come out of unhealthy families and we get into a healthy relationship, we are going to freak out. Because we’re going to be like, Oh, wait, no, ah, you know, because we don’t know how to react. We don’t know what’s going on.

The other thing that happens is we think they’re boring. We go, oh my god, it’s so boring. Well, why? Let’s take a look at the family of origin. If the family of origin was drama, drama, drama, drama, drama, and your relationship is not drama, and its good communication. I statements, lots of feeling, lots of talking, lots of inclusion. Hello, does this all sound familiar? You know, it can feel foreign, it can feel boring, it can feel weird, it can feel whatever. So, these are all things to start writing down and talking about to your therapist. Seriously, if you’re having these thoughts about a healthy relationship, hold on, there’s more.

To do to do, okay, mutual respect for each other’s boundaries. Again, this is the same thing in healthy families, open communication. That’s again, same thing in healthy families. It can feel boring at times, especially for those of us who grew up in chaotic or dysfunctional families to someone with anxious attachment boring can signal distress in the brain. When we grow up in environments in which there’s a lot of fighting tension and strained relationships. We learned that this is how we can expect people to engage with each other Which is not true, it can be come normal to get used to the high that comes from the honeymoon period after an argument, and then it becomes a cycle. In healthy relationships, people get their needs met without the cycle of conflict, which can feel boring at first, but boring is healthy, it’s secure. Something to think about.

Children who grow up in chaotic and dysfunctional environments know that the boring times were few and far between. And that’s very true. They were usually followed or preceded by a chaotic or traumatic event. Much as, much as we associate anxiety with the calm before the storm. These children become adults who are uncomfortable when things are calm. They’re waiting for the shoe to drop. They’re waiting for the trauma because that’s what happened to us when we were growing up. Healthy Relationships know how to fight, and I like to frame that as disagreeing as opposed to fighting. Rather, they work together to problem-solve effectively. They, they confront conflict head-on, but in an assertive and respectful way. In families in which caregivers do not model healthy communication, children learn quickly that conflict is uncomfortable, even scary, due to the way in which it was handled. When conflict is handled as a punishment, either through aggression or passive aggression, children learned that it is something to be avoided or even fear.

Healthy couples argue sometimes absolutely, disagreements happen. Yep, you bet. And this is okay. Sometimes they argue about big things and sometimes about small things, such as who misplaced the butter, all of this is normal. The real test is whether you can turn to each other afterward and say, oh my gosh, I am so sorry. That is silly. So, a great example of that is John and I stayed in, you know, to get out of the heat. We stayed at an Airbnb. Unbeknownst to both of us it had a compost toilet. Oh, dear God, don’t ever use this compost toilet. They’re awful. They’re disgusting. So, and I got really angry. And as soon as I had my little hissy fit and got over it, I said I am so sorry for acting like a biatch. So, I was like, let me explain where that came from. And give me three guesses where it came from? Family of origin. So, dear old dad, because he made us use outhouses and compost toilets, and yeah, disgusting. So, um, when it was unnecessary, so self-esteem issues with my dad, and he foisted them upon us. So anyway, that was interesting. And that was just an opportunity for me to go let me own this. Let me apologize for just spewing because I was really triggered at that point. And having a trauma response, obviously. So, you know, and let me work on this. And what do I need to make amends? How do I fix this? I am really sorry. I’m sorry. I yelled, you know, and then we talked it out. And that’s what healthy couples do. That’s what healthy people do. So there, that is okay.

Kris Godinez  38:07

Both parties contribute equal effort. So, in a healthy relationship, it is equal. It’s not one doing all the emotional lifting, and the other one doing no emotional lifting, and I don’t mean equal effort, like oh, this the housework is split equally, blah, blah, blah. I’m talking emotions, guys, emotions, because narcissists don’t know how to deal with emotions. So usually in a narcissistic, abusive relationship. The partner who’s healthier is the one lifting literally all the emotions, the Narcissus just sailing through life, like the Queen Mary going through the Curacao and just causing damage everywhere and no emotion, no connection, no intimacy, no nothing. In a healthy relationship, both parties are doing their own emotional lifting, and there’s intimacy, and there’s conversation. And there’s disagreements, and there’s coming together and turning towards each other as opposed to away from each other. There’s none of this, us versus them stuff. It’s we are literally a partnership. So that is something to think about. Okay, hold on, you feel understood in your relationship. Each party really hears the other and lets the other one know that they hear them, that they get them that this is their person and not in a love bombing way. It’s like in other things that are not romantic, they get you, they get it, you know, trust and security

Each partner feels that their partnership is secure. There’s a lot of growth in couples who have this security because they’re they know they’re safe and they’re know they are allowed to grow and change and explore and just like with a good parent with a kid Hello, intimacy through shared interests and passion. So yes, each party has separate things that they do, but they also come together and do things. And it’s not liked the narcissistic, you know, taking over a passion, that kind of thing.

So, okay, so basically, to recap healthy families, healthy friendships, healthy romantic partners. Respect, emotional maturity, they are responsible for them, you are responsible for you. Each person does their own heavy lifting with the emotions with parents; they are authoritative, not authoritarian, there is inclusivity, the children are respected. The do you hear the word respect over and over and over again, the children are heard, there’s good communication, there’s talking to each other, not at each other. There’s an acceptance that mistakes are going to be happening.

Absolutely, mistakes are going to happen. Forgiveness for that, as long as the person learns from it and changes the behavior. But with a narcissist, they’ll do that, oh, I made a mistake. And then you forgive them. And then they make the mistake again, and you forgive them. That’s different because that’s not really they’re not they’re not changing. They’re not getting it. They’re not learning. They’re not growing. So, in a healthy family, it’s communication. It’s love. It’s respect, it’s unconditional. And a healthy friendship. There’s shared mutual respect, there’s boundaries, there’s enjoying things together, enjoying each other’s company, not conditional, you just hang out with the person because you enjoy them. You know, Um, in romantic partnership. Again, respect. They have their own like kind of, you know, their own interests. You have your own interests, you come together, you do shared things, great communication, willingness to tackle the hard discussions, willingness to have confrontation, which I like to reframe as clarification. So, we get this fear of confronting because, like I said, we have this bad connotation to it. Got to change that it’s okay to have disagreements. It’s okay. It’s going to happen. It’s going to happen. You are not them. They are not you. There’s going to be disagreements. It’s a matter of having the good communication skills, which I would recommend fighting for your marriage by Markman all great communication skills, you know, having that ability to have disagreements, and still turn to each other and still love each other and still respect each other because there’s no name calling, there’s no, I’m right, you’re wrong. You know, there’s no dying on this hill, of which way the toilet paper is supposed to go. I’ve had couples do that. You know, so it… recognizing what is necessary and what is unnecessary, and what is more important. And ultimately, what is always more important is people, not things, people, not things. So there, that is okay. Let’s dive into other questions, shall we? All right.

Do parents in dysfunctional families know they’re dysfunctional? Yes, absolutely. Regularly, just like the narcissist knows there’s something wrong with them, and they don’t want to go to therapy. Do they know they’re dysfunctional? Yes. So, here’s the deal. My dad, crazy. I mean, cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Dear God. So, I mean, full goose Bozo. I mean, gone. Okay. He refused therapy. Every single child, as they came of age, asked him to go to therapy, and he absolutely refused. And if you read my book, what’s Wrong with your dad, available on Amazon? I know, shameless plug. But if you read that book, I talked about that. And I talked about how he knew that something was abnormal. My mom knew something was abnormal. But they were so in denial. And so, ego invested, especially my dad, that, you know, they wouldn’t go get help. They wouldn’t change. They wouldn’t. You know, my mom came up with 100,000 million reasons why she wouldn’t leave him, not that she couldn’t, but that she wouldn’t. You know, so yeah. Do they know they’re dysfunctional? Yeah, absolutely. But they lie to themselves and say, Oh, every family does this. My mom did that. That was her thing. Every family does this. Every family has their problems. Well, yeah, every family has their peccadilloes. Some a hell of a lot more than others. Hello, you know, I mean, so do you see where I’m going with that? So, they live in denial. They can’t be wrong. They know there’s something wrong. They do. They know there’s something wrong with them, but they’re unwilling to address it or acknowledge it. And if they do have those little, teeny tiny moments where maybe they come up for air, and oh, gosh, maybe I need to do something poof, then they go back down, and they’re gone. So yeah, I hope that answered that question.

My narc mom always pretended to be normal to others. My dad did that. But she was copying normal, my dad did that, from what she saw on TV, and it looks fake. Yeah, they do that absolutely. 110% They don’t have emotions, guys. I’m not kidding you. When you’re dealing with a dark triad, a psychopath so anti-Social, narcissistic, control freak. They mimic normal human emotions; you can watch them. They have the shark eyes; they’ve got the predator thing going on there. They’re looking through you. Or when they look at you, they’re trying to figure out what they can say or what they can do or how to how to have this emotion. I’ve talked about this multiple times when somebody who’s truly psychopathic is expressing an emotion. It never reaches their eyes, look at their eyes, it never reaches their eyes. So, in multiple cases, court cases… I love to watch those was at signs of a psychopath. There was one where the prosecutor totally got the guy because he was sniffling. You know, making all the sad noises of them cry, no tears, no tears, couldn’t manufacture tears. Now, some of them can manufacture tears, but it never reaches their eyes. Eyes are literally the mirrors to the soul. And you can see emotions in people’s eyes. Real psychopaths have a really hard time manufacturing that. And it does come off as fake. Because they’re not feeling it. They do not process emotions the way we do. They do not. They can feel sorry for themselves. They’re sad that they got caught. But they cannot put themselves in somebody else’s shoes and go, Wow, what that must feel like, holy cow. It’s not there. There’s no there, there. I Keep saying that. There’s no there, there. So that makes perfect sense. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, question. When a narcissist admits their attention, intentions with blame-shifting projection, like you were just trying to get under my skin, as they call you jealous, selfish, etc. They use whatever keywords they think will bait a defense loop. Why did they do that? Well, you just answered your own question. It’s a defense loop. It’s a distraction. It’s to get you on the ropes explaining yourself.

Kris Godinez  47:13

That’s what they want. So, they will totally, you know, when they say you’re selfish, you’re this You’re that you, you, you, you, you guns is what I call them. The second somebody whips out the you’re this; you’re that, they’re talking about themselves 110%. So, they’re doing that so that you get triggered so that you feel like a child, so that you’re starting to over-explain yourself, now you’re on the ropes. And now the original issue is lost, and you’re lost in this rabbit hole, this circular logic conversation, trying to defend yourself. That’s exactly why they do that. And you’ve got to watch how narcissists talk. They will tell you, point blank, what they are going to do to you. So, a lot of times in romantic relationships, what I’ll hear a narcissist say to their partner is you shouldn’t love me, I’ll only hurt you. And, of course, the partner thinking they’re dealing with somebody who is sane or normal, right? We’ll be like, Oh, that’s not true. You wouldn’t hurt a fly. Because healthy, normal people wouldn’t do that. But the narcissist knows that’s what they’re going to do. They do. They warn us they absolutely do. They tell us point blank what they’re going to do. You betcha. So yeah. And what you’re talking about is somebody who is distracting. They’re getting you off the real topic. And now you’re on the ropes, defending yourself and not about whatever the topic was, if that makes any sort of sense.

When things get hard, why does the partner detach? They go into their phone or whatever escape from reality, for example, waiting for an ultrasound for a dog, I am present for the dog, he is on his phone. Okay, so I don’t know the situation with your partner. I don’t know if they’re narcissistic, or if they’re abusive, or whatever. But when somebody detaches, that generally means they’re having a hard time dealing with whatever the situation is. So, when somebody goes into their phone would rather look at their phone, rather than be with the sentient being that is going through an ultrasound that says to me, it’s uncomfortable for them, and they don’t want to deal with it. So, I don’t know what the situation is, I don’t know. But that’s generally when people are more attached to their phone they’re uncomfortable. They’re distracting themselves. They’re distracting themselves. So yeah, that’s what it is. It’s a distraction. It’s so that they don’t have to deal with the present moment. So, when we’re in our phones, we’re not in the present moment. We’re in a virtual reality. We’re not in this moment. We’re in a phone, We’re in an app, we’re in a game, we’re in a whatever. We’re not in the uncomfortable present moment. So, this is why I strongly recommend that families and couples and friends, even when you get together, you put your phones away, put them in a basket, so you can’t get them, turn them off, put them on silent, whatever, so that you’re not tempted to grab the phone and be here, as opposed to here. So yeah, really important. So, it’s a way of distracting; it’s a way of not being in the present moment.

Why does my narcissistic family members seem like they get worse with age? Because they do. So, let’s talk about a collapsed narcissist. So as narcissists age, their ability to manipulate, control, harm, hurt, etc., starts diminishing, okay? So, they’re older; they’re no longer attractive, maybe they’re not handsome or young or whatever, or beautiful or whatever it was that they used to lure new supply in. Or maybe they’ve lost their money. They don’t have the amount of money anymore. They don’t have the power. They don’t have the status. They don’t have the, you know, people aren’t looking up to them and worshipping them. And this, that, and the other thing. As a narcissist starts to collapse, they get worse, not better. It’s not they are never… listen to me now, believe me later. They are never going to have a V-8 moment. They’re never going to smack themselves in the head and go, Oh, my God, I’ve been an ass. I need to change. No, that’s never going to happen. And if they do, here’s what generally the way it goes down. Their partner leaves them; they’re out of supply. They go, Oh, my God, I need therapy. I need to change. It’s me. Right? Because the partners told them that, right? So, they’ll go to therapy long enough to either hook the partner back. Or they’ll go to therapy for three times and then stop because now it’s getting real, and the therapist is going yeah it is you. You are the problem. Yeah, we need to work on this. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, they do get worse with age. They don’t ever admit that they’re wrong. They don’t ever change. They don’t ever grow. They don’t ever become better. They don’t ever. They don’t. They don’t want to. Their ego is 110% in control. There is no there, there. There is no ability to go I am mortal. I am going to die. This will end. They don’t like that. It scares them to death, aging, dying, frightens them to the core. Why? They have no control over it. None. Zip. Zilch. And it pisses them right the hell off. So yeah, they do get worse with age, and people are less willing to put up with their stuff. That’s why you see nursing homes filled with geriatric narcissists that are just a-holes snapping their fingers at the staff and then they can’t understand why the staff doesn’t like them. You bet.

All right, um, oh, dear. The family is fighting over the inheritance. The siblings are threatening to sue each other, what should I do? Stay the hell out of it. They’re going to say, they’re going to do whatever, you know it, have a good lawyer. I mean, honestly, if it’s a well-written will. Okay, in a healthy family, let’s be clear. In a healthy family, there is no infighting over inheritance because the adult children recognize that that’s not their money. And that mom and dad can disperse it however they see fit in a healthy family. In an unhealthy family, they view it as their money. The narcissists view it as their money. So, a good way to stop that from happening is when you write the Will, you first of all have a good attorney write it. And number two, you put a clause in there that if anyone contests it, they get exactly $1. That’s what my mom did. I thought that was brilliant because that shuts some people up. So that was good. So yeah, if it’s, if it’s a substantial amount of money, talk to an attorney, that’s really more of an attorney situation than, than, than psychological. If it’s not a substantial amount of money, and you could live without it, stay the hell out. I don’t think it’s worth it. I really don’t think there’s unless we’re talking millions, I don’t think there’s money enough to have to put up with their stuff. And when they start suing, that costs money, you know, it costs $5,000 to retain an attorney. It’s ridiculous. And the suits and the counter suits and the this and that and you know, so if it’s worth fighting for, great! Get an attorney. Do what you need to do, but you’re going to have to spend money in order to get the inheritance. Does that make sense?

So, if it’s not worth it if it’s if it’s less than $5,000 that you would be spending to get an attorney, then let it go. Let it go, and good luck. Let ‘em be happy with that. Good luck with that. Hope you’re happy. They’re never going to be happy if they’re fighting over an inheritance, and they’re willing to blow up whatever family relationships, what did I say earlier? People, not things are what is important. People, not things. So there that is all right. Is there any other questions? No, that is it.

All right, my love’s let me see what we are talking about next week, hold on half a tick while I pull that up. So basically, healthy relationships are all about communication and respect. That’s really no matter what they are. It’s communication and respect. So, remember that OK. Now, next week, to kind of dovetail with this, we’re going to talk about bad behaviors and parenting, we’re going to talk about what not to do and how to mitigate that if you find yourself having had done that. So, I want you guys to be super gentle with yourself. When we are raised by abusers, we have a tendency or go to is we have a tendency to repeat behaviors or repeat patterns. So, it’s a matter of recognizing the pattern and forgiving yourself. So, we’re going to talk about bad parenting behaviors, how to how to pick up the fleas and squish them, and what to replace them with. So good parenting, we’re going to be talking about good parenting versus bad parenting, you know, authoritative versus authoritarian, and all of that good stuff. So, talk to you guys next week. You guys go have a great week, and I will see you later. I’ll see you on Wednesday. I’m going to answer questions. Talk to you later. Bye.

Kris Godinez  56:48

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 07-16-2023 Healthy Family, Friends, Partners appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Have you ever wondered why the other parent did not protect you? Have you wondered why people just allow abuse to occur? What gets in the way of people acting to protect? These and many more questions will be answered in this week’s episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez discussing When People Do Nothing!

Links to resources mentioned in this episode:

• When Good People Do Nothing
• Supreme Court Overturns Stalker’s Conviction In First Amendment Case Over ‘True Threats’
• Child Abuse and the Role of Parental Denial

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

So, I’m doing the Portland meet and greet today at two o’clock very excited. Portland has changed a lot since John and I lived here. We lived here in the mid-1990s. Nine think we left in 2001. Lots of homeless I got chased by a homeless man today. That was fun. And when I say fun, I mean terrifying. So, there was that Hello, darlings. Um, yeah, that was kind of weird. It was it was a very strange morning. So, we got up to take the dogs down and, you know, walk them along Tom McCall Park. And Tom McCall Park has changed a lot. There was a lot of graffiti, lots more garbage, lots more homeless people. So, this one homeless guy sees me and John coming with the dogs. And he’s like, Oh, she’s a good person. She’s a good person. And then, like, he starts yelling about losing $12,000. I mean, it was obviously mental health issues, probably schizophrenia, possibly borderline with psychotic features. Who knows. But then, as we were walking back on our second walk, this homeless guy just started following me. And as I was running across the street, he started running across the street. And then John had to place himself between me and him. And he finally just kept walking. It was really weird.

So yeah, the homeless population definitely has increased. And it is an issue not just in here. But in Portland, but literally everywhere, the homeless population has increased, and there are no services, and why? Well, the homeless population doesn’t have any money. And politicians are not going to do anything about it, because who’s going to finance it? People don’t want to finance it because there’s no money to be made. And it’s really annoying. And it really makes me angry because a lot of these homeless people are mentally ill. And can they be dangerous? Yeah. If the voices told them to hurt somebody if they have command hallucinations, you betcha. And I would have to say both of those guys had command hallucinations. So anyway, there was there that, but Portland is beautiful. And it is fun to be here.

So, I am looking forward to seeing people today. That’s awesome. Um, okay, so current events, aside from the homeless issue, which is nationwide. Apparently, the supreme idiot Court decided that they were going to loosen up the definition of stalking. This is not okay. So basically, they’re saying, Oh, well, it’s intent. They didn’t intend to terrorize you. They didn’t intend to scare you. That wasn’t their intent. Okay, back the hell up Bipidi Bobbidi back the hell up, biotch. So, here’s my issue with that this person. Apparently, this is in Forbes magazine. See if I can find the article. Forbes magazine. There it is, for a Supreme Court overturned stalkers conviction in First Amendment case over true threats. So, this guy sent these messages to this singer. Apparently, the Supreme Court ruled in favor to seven to two in favor of Billy Raymond Counterman, a man who was convicted in Colorado of stalking after sending repeated messages to female musician Coles Whelan that made her fear for her safety, including one that suggested he knew where she was, and told her to die and eff off permanently. countermine was convicted based on an objective test that considered whether a reasonable person would believe his comments constituted true threats, which, unlike most speech, aren’t protected by the First Amendment. But his attorney argued that the Supreme Court should instead impose a subjective test that takes the speaker’s intent into account. Okay, if you’re dealing with somebody who’s crazy, and they’re stalking, their intent is to harm, let’s just be clear here. So, 90% of communication is verbal and auditory, okay, and then of course, there’s the micro expressions center, etc, etc. When you are receiving threatening emails, threatening texts, threatening mail threatening anything, you can’t hear or see what they’re doing. Okay? So, if you’re feeling threatened, perception is everything you ask any good therapist, perception is everything. If you’re feeling threatened and you’re feeling threatened, it doesn’t matter what their intent was. healthy, normal people that are not dark triads, or cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, hearing voices telling them what to do. Do not, listen to me now, believe me later, send texts that say things like die now, eff off permanently, I would take that as a threat.

I had one on YouTube a few years ago that I ended up calling the police and saying okay, this is. I’m threatened by this. This is they’re saying things like you’re going to end up dead if you keep doing this. How else am I supposed to take that? You know, there’s no context. So, they’re saying, Oh, it’s subjective. No mother clucker. It is not. If somebody is saying they’re going to hurt you. They know where you are. They want you dead. They want you know, etc. That’s a frickin threat, and for the supreme idiocy court to say that no, that’s not, and that’s protected under freedom of speech. That’s a load of crap. That is misogynistic. And that’s not just misogynistic. Women are not the only ones who get threats like this, guys do, too. And what pisses me off more than anything else? Is that when a man is being threatened by a woman, the police do not take it seriously. Oh, well, you’re a guy. Oh, well, but no, it doesn’t matter. Crazy is crazy. Gender aside, crazy is crazy. So, if somebody is crazy enough to start sending out threats, then yeah, so I would strongly suggest writing your senators and saying, Ah, this is not okay. This is directly affecting anybody who’s got a restraining order against one of these cuckoos. This is directly affecting anybody who is in a domestic violence situation where their ex is saying things and guess what, gaslighting? This is gas? This is gaslighting. 110%. Oh, my intent wasn’t to terrorize. Die now. eff off permanently. How would you take that? I take that as you know where I am. You’re threatening me. You’re basically saying you’re going to harm me. Oh, but that wasn’t my intent. That’s gaslighting at its worst. It really is. And it makes me angry because now this is giving carte blanche to all of the abusers out there to be as heinous as they want to be. And the Supreme Court, the courts are just going to go oh, well, you know their intent. They’re saying that that wasn’t their intent. Well, if it wasn’t their intent, why were they writing it? See where I’m going with that? I have a huge problem with this. This is This is dangerous to survivors of domestic violence.

This absolutely is this is 110% the wrong message to be sending. We need to be sending letters to the Supreme Court. We need to be sending letters to our senators, we need to be doing something about this because it’s so easy for the defendant to come back in and go oh, well, that wasn’t my intent. Oh, I was just kidding. Oh, I did. Oh, well. But when you’re reading something, you’re not hearing it. You’re not seeing it. You know. So, what is their intent? You can only take it off of what it says. And I think this is a disservice to survivors. It’s a disservice to people who are dealing with stalkers. stalkers are dark triads, they’re narcissistic, psychopath Machiavellian, so I can guarantee you all of them that have restraining orders are going to go running out and going, Oh, wasn’t my intent. I was just kidding. Screw you. That just pisses me off. It really does. And, and there’s a political aspect, obviously to this too, because they’re trying to make it easier for people to send threats to political people. And I’m just like, you know, what, how about we all just have manners? How about we all just stop treating each other horribly? How about we just stop being stupid? It just. I hate the Supreme Court. I really do. They’re making bad decisions. They’re, they’re doing things that are harming other people. And that is the devil. We’re going to get into that today. So, here’s the deal. If you see somebody doing something harmful, like the Supreme Court, you don’t want to just sit by and go, Oh, it’s too big.

Kris Godinez  09:22

I can’t handle it. I can’t do it. You can. If enough of us get in together and write letters and let people know that we’re upset and it’s not okay, change can happen. And this plays into what I am talking about today, which is when people do nothing, so.

Okay, now we’re diving into our topic. So, a topic that I got today was from several people going but why did my other parents stand by and do nothing? Why did my teacher do nothing? Why did this person who knew about the abuse Do nothing? So, we’re going to talk about that. So, I pulled up a couple of articles on Psychology Today and one from Where’s this one from? Mentalhelp.net. But let’s start with the Psychology Today one. So, this is When Good People Do Nothing on Psychology Today was published in 2020 September 15. And bystander intervention versus bystander apathy, decades of research by psychologists like Latane and Darley have identified the steps that prevent people from intervening to help versus the circumstances, circumstances under which they stand up. So that you can get to the information that particular study on this page, which is what I like. So basically, they have a graph and in the graph, it says, okay, the emergency happens, and then people notice the event, but what stops them is they’re distracted, they’re in a hurry. They don’t want to get involved. They just don’t want to get involved. I’m in a hurry. I got to go do this. So, they don’t do anything. The other thing that happens is they interpret the event as an emergency. But they, again, they, they talk themselves out of it, oh, it wasn’t really that bad. Oh, it wasn’t really this. It wasn’t really that. And I’ll give you a great example. My mother-in-law calls us, and this was years ago, and says, Oh, I saw this kid in the parking lot yelling that this guy wasn’t his dad. And I’m like, did you call the police? And she was like, oh, no, I didn’t want to get involved. I would rather call the police and have it be his dad and the kid just being acting out or whatever, than to not call the police and have this guy be a, you know, child trafficker. So. So she convinced herself it wasn’t an emergency, and that the kid was really just, you know, that guy’s son and etc., etc. So, this is, like I said, years ago if I had known I would have Yeah.

Okay. And emergency happens, people assume responsibility. But what ends up happening is diffusion of responsibility, have failed to assume personal responsibility. So, this is like, in the case of Kitty Genovese, in New York City, in the 60s, she was murdered in front of literally hundreds of people, her apartment building had windows, people were seeing her being stabbed. All of them assumed that somebody else was going to call the cops. Because they didn’t want to get involved. Oh, well, there’s a lot of people, somebody else will do it. No, no, I would much rather, again, be the 20th person to call the police than to not call the police and somebody gets hurt. So again, this is a lot of that fight, flight, freeze, or faun, a lot of freezes involved with this. And we’re going to get into why the good parent doesn’t get involved. This is all kind of playing into this. So, stay with me on this one. Okay. So then, okay, so then emergency happened knows appropriate form of assistance, but what stops it is a lack of knowledge, lack of competence, can’t offer appropriate help, so it doesn’t know what to do. So, you know, they go, Oh, I don’t know what to do. So, I’m just not going to do anything. So, emergency happens, and this is the last one, implement decision. Okay. So, what stops it is danger to self-legal concept concerns, embarrassment, or the cost of helping are too high. So, this is going to play into why parents do not protect their kids. Okay, hold on. Yeah, many complain, few act. That’s and that’s the thing if everyone acted, we wouldn’t be having the issues we’re having right now, with our protection from stalkers happening. So, this is why it’s important to speak up. This is why it’s important to act in mass. It’s like even one voice even.

Do you remember the Lord of the Rings? To remember when Frodo was just giving up hope and like, I’m so little, I don’t know how I can do this. And it was, I can’t remember what it was Galadreal or if it was Gandalf, but they said to them, it was like, yes, but your voice makes a difference. You make a difference. So even though it’s just one of you, you make a difference. So don’t give up that idea that you make a difference. You do make a difference. Okay, so hold on.

So, um, let me get over to, all right, Child Abuse and the Role of Parental Denial. So, this is by Dr. Schwartz. Allen Schwartz, PhD. This December 11 2009 on mental help.net. And so, the question was, you know, why did my parents do nothing? Okay? Denial is a powerful, powerful and primitive defense mechanism someone who is dependent, so remember, we talked about that last week, somebody who is totally dependent, codependent, you know, can’t see their way out of this relationship, is financially dependent on the abuser is emotionally just brainwashed by the abuser frightened. And themselves, a victim of abuse can remain silent and not even see or hear the abuse in order to maintain the desperately needed relationship with the abuser. In a way, it is a variation of the old saying, hear no evil, see no evil, well, people do hear it and see it and fail to act.

So, this is important, guys. Because when we’re raised in a toxic family, and we have a family member that’s abusing us, and our other parent does nothing or worse, comes up with a ton of reasons why they’re not going to stop the abuse. What is the message that that sends to that kid? And ain’t good. Let me just be clear on that. The message that that sends to that kid is I’m not valuable. I’m not worth protecting. I’m not, you know, I don’t mean anything to either parent. One parent uses me as a beating post. The other one is just allowing it to happen. So personal experience. My mom did that. She absolutely did. And I talked about it in my book. I tell …where do I have my book somewhere? No, of course not. Of course, I don’t. Um, so in what’s wrong with your dad? I talked about it. She sacrificed her kids on the altar of security. Because Oh, well, if I leave him, I We won’t have any money and you’ll starve and this that and the other thing. Okay. Well, in the meantime, he’s beating the crap out of me, and he’s sexually molesting me. So, I think I’d rather starve. Thanks. You know, so it was in then, of course, if you play it back to her connection, her mother was an abuser. Her mother was a narcissist. Her mother abandoned her constantly, like physically abandoned her constantly, and left her to be abused by other adults. So, it makes sense as to why the parent does this because they’re replaying their childhood stuff now. Does it excuse it? Hell? No. Hell no, it does not excuse it not in any way, shape, or form. But it does explain it.

So, hold on, let’s go on with this. Okay, both abuser and spouse can be mentally ill people who collude out of a mutually shared sadism. Now, that is also a possibility. In other words, there are a few people who can get a sense of pleasure out of out of treating children abusively, yes, that can occur. Over the years, I’ve known a few cases in which the wife was in such deep was in such deep need to avoid sexual relations that they preferred that their husband engage in audible relations with the daughter. This is usually unconscious it with full denial and operation. Absolutely. 110%. And I think that’s what was going on with my mom. I think a part of her was like, Oh, good. I don’t have to do it. Seriously, you know, because like I said, she and I talked about this after my dad dropped dead. May he roast in hell. So, you know, it’s like, that’s what we that’s what we talked about. And yeah, there was an aspect of that going on. And again, when she was six years old, she was molested by a step-grandfather. So, this totally is starting to make sense to me. It does not excuse it, it does not excuse it. I absolutely will hold her feet to the fire on that one. You know, it’s like okay, and you should have protected me, and you should have you know, so. Okay, hold on.

Kris Godinez  19:14

Um, okay, another case is chronic and severe drug and alcohol abuse loosened the inhibitions that otherwise sober people and sensible people would have. So, they do things that they would not normally do. Again, it explains it, it does not excuse it. There are parents who have been raised in strict and abusive environments, then repeat the pattern once they are parents, the vicious cycle of abuse is probably the major cause of domestic violence in the United States. So, it’s interesting that, again, it goes back to family of origin generational trauma 110%. So, okay, so there are reasons why the other parent does nothing, and usually, it has to do with their family of origin and who’s running the show. It would be their inner child, and their inner child is all about staying safe. And their inner child is helpless, right? And their inner child doesn’t want to get involved in their inner child doesn’t want to get in trouble. Interesting, because if they had confronted the abuser, what would have happened? Well, they would have gotten the beating, they would have gotten the sexual abuse, they would have gotten the verbal abuse. So, it makes sense. It doesn’t make me what’s the word I’m looking for? I can have compassion for that. It’s like, wow, that sucks. And you had no business having kids. Seriously. If you could not stand up for that child and say no to the abuser, you had no business having kids, Period. Period, you know. So generational trauma, generational trauma, so it’s like the grandparents abused, this parent abused. If this kid doesn’t go, get help. They’re going to abuse if they’re not conscious, which a lot of times they’re not, so there is that.

Okay, so the next article is when one parent is hurtful and the other stands by this is by peg Streep. This is on psychology today. This was posted July 11, 2019. Okay, not long ago, I got this message from a woman now in her mid-50s. For years I focused on my tyrannical father and how afraid of him I was. Mind you; my two brothers were scared of him too. But they dealt with it by being the boys he wanted them to be. I was paralyzed, voiceless, and had to work hard at disappearing from view.

But that didn’t stop him from picking on me mercilessly for being an embarrassment to him. It was only when I got into therapy that I started to realize my mother’s role wasn’t passive. There’s nothing passive about standing by and watching your husband abuse your children. So, 100% Correct. She isn’t alone. I often hear this from daughters whose fathers either stood by or retreated to safety of a den or workshop or hid behind a newspaper, or even worse, encourage their children to be accepting and understanding of the abuser. This was the emotional crucible for Jenna, now age 60. I think my dad loved me in a way. But he also left me utterly confused about loyalty and trust. My mother was hugely critical of me and snapped at me unfairly and constantly. She’d never let an opportunity go by to put me down. Or alternatively, ignore me. If I messed up, she’d go on and on about how I was a failure. If I did good or succeeded she’d pretend it didn’t happen or tell me it wasn’t important. When I got older, I started to push back; my father would step in, he’d appear to acknowledge that I was being hurt. But then he told me to placate her or apologize. He’d say, Oh, it’s just the way she is. Or she’s a good person deep down inside or something that made me feel as though he’d sold me down the river. That was as damaging in the end as my mother’s sniping, so 110% I cannot tell you the number of times my mother made me apologize to my father for him hitting me. Let me just say that again. Oh, it was your fault. Oh, you need to apologize to him. Oh, his feelings are hurt. I’m sorry, what? Yeah, that’s not Oh, K. Not okay. In any way, shape, or form. So yeah, the other parent will seemingly kind of go Oh, yeah, I understand. And oh, well, but that’s just the way they are. Ah, no, no, absolutely. 110% not you stand up for that kid. You stand up for that kid. Because that kid has no voice. And again, the reason the parent doesn’t is they’re afraid of the punishment that the abuser is going to get out to them. Yep. So Okay.

Um, when mom is firmly on Team Dad or vice versa, the daughter or son usually struggles with feelings of being singled out and ganged up on and not heard and not believed and not valued and not trusted and not. Yeah, that’s basically it. It’s like not heard, not believed, not trusted, not valued. It’s a betrayal. It is a huge, huge betrayal. That’s especially true if the parents play favorites or use scapegoating. To keep children in check. That kind of dynamic creates a very specific kind of damage. But the parent is bystander or one who acknowledges but palliates, I have to look that word up; creates a deep mistrust of others, and even distrust of love in which the child can last a deep distrust of love, which can last long into adulthood. Age 43 wrote, my mother is my father’s staunchest defender. My father is a control freak and bully, but she considers him strong, she thinks his put-downs are a way of keeping us from getting too full of ourselves. His criticisms a way of motivating us, his authoritarian style the mark of a man who knows his mind, I don’t think she is cruel by nature. She is meek and afraid, but she just gave up her own thoughts. It has taken me years to really understand that loving someone does not require you to lose your soul. And that how she treated me was about her, not me, I still have trouble trusting people and feeling safe. 110% The emotional confusion created by the bystander parent is very real and can complicate the process of recovering from toxic or damaging childhood experiences. Okay, am I focusing on my father because I can’t bear to blame my mother? That’s a question I received a few weeks ago from a reader who would believe that her issue with her father was with her father until she began to read my book, daughter detox, recovering from an unloving mother, and reclaiming your life. Let me just say this again, daughter detox recovering from an unloving mother, and reclaiming your life. She had always seen her father as the villain of the piece. But she began to see that what she considered her mother’s passivity was much more than that. She wrote to me to say that she was surprised by the level of betrayal, that she felt.

This realization that my mother was being active and not passive has thrown me for a loop in a weird way. I am angrier with her at the moment for doing nothing that I am for him for doing something isn’t that strange? Well, no, it’s not. It’s hard enough to confront the fact that one parent isn’t treating you as he or she should. But to focus on the roles both parents played in your treatment takes it to a whole other level. So basically, when you are working on your family of origin, hugely important, don’t just focus on the abuser, focus on who was standing around, who didn’t do anything. Who did jack diddly squat, what the eff was going on with that? See where I’m going with that. And it’s like, really, really, it’s like kneading dough. It’s like getting through it all. It’s like, you know, let’s get this. Let’s, let’s figure out all of the roles here.

So, abuse cannot happen in a vacuum abuse has to be allowed. And it has to be done in secret or with denial or whatever. So, who was around who didn’t protect you? Who didn’t speak up? Who was a bystander who played the victim? Who did all this? And that’s something to work on because none of this abuse was because of you. Let me just say that again. None of the abuse that any of us went through was because of us. It was because of the other people 110%. Okay, hold on. I will get to the questions in just a second. Okay. Okay. Takes it to a whole other level. Okay. It’s no wonder that some daughters choose to look away as best they can. This is what Greta share. I totally see my mother as the victim. And while I’m unhappy with how she treats me, I honestly feel she can’t help it. Because my father is super controlling. No, she could help it. This has caused a huge rift with my older sister, who sees my mother as a harpy who focuses on her father’s faults, has always berated him for not being a good enough provider, or anything else, and is cruel to her and me. She has very little to do with her mother and skips family visits and takes Dad out on her own. She and I have become distanced and estranged without declaring war as our parents age. She thinks making mom a victim is sick stuff on my part. I don’t know what to do. I just want everyone to get along. Oh, God, and that is it.

Kris Godinez  28:52

Kids just want to be loved. Kids are light little beings that just want love. And they just want everybody to be happy. And they just want to be able to play. And they just want to be able to be enjoyed and enjoy other people. That’s really what kids want. So, if you sell yourself to sell to get peace, right, you’re not going to have peace. You’re not, you know, you think, Oh, if I do this, it’s going to it’s going to be peaceful. Maybe it will stop, maybe they won’t yell, maybe they won’t. But in the long run, you’ll just start getting smaller and smaller and smaller and liking yourself less and less and less. And eventually, you’re going to be gone. And you don’t want that. Okay. That’s what these people are doing when they’re placating an abuser. They’re losing themselves every single time. Every single time. Hold on a second. Let’s get back to this article.

Okay, it’s worth saying worth saying from a cultural point of view. It’s easier to be open about an unloving father than it is to talk about, and unloving flies in the face of all the mother myths that all women are nurturing no, They are not, that mothering is instinctual. No, it is not that all mothers love their children. No, they do not. Anecdotally, at least, there is much more denial involved when it’s the mother who is abusive and cold, uncaring, narcissistic, or manipulative. And that’s true. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. And yes, there are some crazy mother clickers out there. You bet yet Oh, narcissistic dark triads stalkers? You bet. Which is why I’m so angry about the idiot court because it’s like you mother. Write your senators. Okay. I will get to the question. I’m almost done with this article, hold on.

Third player your parents’ marriage, it is impossible to begin to understand the dynamics of your parents’ relationship. When you are a child, and remains difficult even into adulthood. We never become peers but always remain offspring. And especially in in dysfunctional relationships. That dynamic never change in a healthy mom dad kids’ relationship that mom and dad realize the kids are growing up and are adults in and of themselves. And so, the relationship grows in an adult way. But toxic, people always want the kids to be kids and never grow up. We never become peers but always remain offspring limited in our view of their marriage by the relationship we have to them and the fact that we weren’t around when their connection began. And they settled into their roles as spouses. We can analyze it all we want. But when it comes to understanding the influence, their relationship had on how we retreated. The chances are good that we will never get past the guessing stage. True, but you can do an educated guess, and you’re probably going to be right. It’s a very real blind spot. Working with a therapist can of course, clear away some of the brush, which will help. That was true of a daughter named Julia, who I interviewed extensively, she was marginalized and ignored by her mother and picked on by her father in childhood. And later, she went on into therapy, the specifics of her story helped her understand the role she played in her parents’ relationship. So, this is true. So, if you’ve got a family of origin with an abuser, and a passive, seemingly passive spouse, the kids are given roles. The kids are given roles distraction, comedian, second mom, second dad, you know, second spouse, you know, they’re given roles to play, and it has nothing to do with the kid. Nothing.But that kid. Not all out. So yeah, absolutely. therapists can help with that. 110%. Um, okay, let me see.

Okay, my birth was the cause of all hardship and strife. I was never allowed to forget it. They chose to have two more children later. And it was always clear that they that unlike me, my sisters brought them happiness and pride. That was the family story. And they have never deviated from it. Not in 50 years, I am still the source of their disappointments, large and small. And that is part of their bond in a weird way. Their marriage has thrived because they had someone to blame for their occasional unhappiness from the very start, my mother still dismisses me, and my father finds me lacking; it will never change. And I know that. So again, the role of the scapegoat, the role of the whipping kid, you know, it’s like, okay, so that’s, that’s who they put all of their stuff on to. Um, okay, let’s see. Anyway, the article goes on. It’s just really good about it really puts into perspective why some spouses stand by and allow the hurt to happen, why some actively engaged in it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, basically, their behavior towards us had absofreakinglutely, nothing to do with us. Nothing, zip, zero, zilch. Nada. It had to do with their inner child, their family of origin, what they were protecting, etcetera, etcetera. Now, does that excuse it? No, not even a little it explains it. And hopefully, that will start unraveling that self-esteem issue of I’m not worthy. When you realize that it had nothing to do with you. Their idiocy, they’re not interfering. They’re not protecting you had nothing to do with you. It had everything to do with them, their inner child, what they were afraid of their fears, their codependency, their need for security, etc., etc., etc. Which is why it’s so important to get this stuff nailed down if you’re considering having kids, because you do not want to pass on this generational trauma to the next generation.

So all right, let’s recap. So, to recap, people stand by and do nothing because they talk themselves out of it. They are convinced that they can’t do anything or that somebody else is going to do it. So you can’t assume somebody else is going to respond to an emergency or respond to abuse or whatever, you report it, you report it, which is why the things that have been happening lately are so chilling to me, because it’s like, okay, well, if you’re handcuffing people reporting abuse, who’s watching out for the abused, you know if you’re taking away the ability to punish a frickin dark triad who’s saying die now, eff off, who’s protecting that person? Again, stand by mentality, you got to stop it, you got to get involved, you got to get involved. And again, when I was growing up, I told people, I told people, I was being harmed. Nobody did anything because they didn’t want to fill out the paperwork. They didn’t want to take the time. They didn’t want to get involved. And they were afraid of being sued because my dad was an attorney.

So, you got to tell that fear to eff off it. Could you be sued? Well, hell yeah. In this country, you could be sued for anything, anytime, anywhere, for any reason? Yeah, absolutely. Is that a problem? Yeah, sort of. But you know, what, if it means saving someone or protecting somebody, then I’ll do it. You know, it’s like, bring it bitch. I don’t care. You know what I’m saying? So, it just, it annoys me greatly the bystander mentality, especially in toxic families. So, when you get that parent that’s like, oh, but that’s just the way they are. We don’t want them upset at me. You know, a wrong, an incorrect response, please go off the island. You know what I’m saying? I’m saying it’s just, uh, anyway. So basically, the way the parents behaved had everything to do with them, everything to do with their family of origin, nothing to do with the kids, nothing to do with you. It was not your job to protect them. That’s often the way it ends up happening is that the kids protect the other parent from the abuser. It’s not your job to make their marriage good or happy or whatever or be a scapegoat for them. It’s not your job to be a second mom or second dad. You did not ask to have 20 million children. And it’s not fair that an abusive parent makes a five-year-old babysit younger kids. Oh, yeah, that happens. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s this has all abuse has to do with the abuser. It does, and the standing by has to do with the family of origin issues of that parent, probably code a parent to parent, codependent parent, do you see where I’m going with that? So, they’ve got their own issues. They’re acting out of inner child stuff. Get to a therapist, if you are in an abusive relationship and you find yourself siding with the abuser, or you find yourself not protecting your kids, get out, get to a therapist, help yourself, help your kids, because here’s something to think about. You are role modeling for them. What a relationship looks like, do you really want them to get involved with somebody that’s just like your abuser? Hell, no, you don’t. So do something to help yourself. Do something to help those kids.

Kris Godinez  38:33

Okay, let’s hit the questions. Here we go. Do narcissists enjoy seeing their children, especially their daughters, getting hurt? I saw a narc protecting her sons more and being dismissive to the daughters. Like they don’t matter at all. Yeah, in some cases. Yeah. But here’s the thing. I think with narcissists, psychopaths’ dark triads, it depends on their family of origin again, so if they have, you know, daddy issues, or whatever, they may be more abusive to the sons and protect the daughters or vice versa or whatever. Do they enjoy seeing their children get hurt? Yeah, they do. They’re sadists. I cannot stress this enough, guys. When I say that narcissists, dark triads, especially, are sadistic and sadists. I am not just whistling a tune here. They enjoy inflicting pain because it makes them feel powerful. It is a power and control issue. That’s what it’s all about. And when I say they want you dead, I’m not just whistling a tune. I’m not. They want us dead. And this whole thing about, oh, it’s subjective. No, it’s not. If somebody says die now and eff off permanently, that says to me, that’s a death threat. Okay, so here’s what I think needs to happen. We need to get a psychiatrist to challenge that because, I Honestly, there is no subjective about this Perception is everything. If somebody sends me a threatening message, I’m going to take it as threatening. Thank you very much. And I should. So anyway, don’t get me started. But yes, they are absolutely sadists. They absolutely do enjoy it. Yes, they will play favorites. Yes, they will protect the daughters and not the sons or protect the sons and not the daughters, depending on what their own personal peccadilloes are.

Um, would you consider a parent who refuses to act a kind of dissociation? It can be? Yeah, absolutely. It 100% can be because if the abuser is abusing, and it sends them into dissociation, and they’re unable to act, that’s why I’m saying Fight Flight freeze are faun. But here’s the thing, after the fact, if the kid comes to you and says, mom or Dad just did this, okay, well, we need to do something. This needs to stop. So, I mean, somebody’s got to protect the kid. And I understand yes, dissociation can happen. 110%. But after the dissociative episode, and the kid says they’re being abused, that child needs to be protected. Period.

My stalker won’t stop, even with a restraining order. Should I move? Okay, so, stalkers are crazy, okay, with a restraining order, they generally don’t stop if they are dark triads and crazy enough, what should be happening is if the order of protection is being violated, you should be calling the police every single time and demand that they do something, because there’s an order in place this guy needs to, or this girl needs to be in jail, period. So, you could continue to call the police. If you’ve been calling the police and they are doing nothing, I would get vocal. I would go to the media, I really would. Because that’s the kind of biatch I am. So, you know, it’s like, let’s put a spotlight on this, let’s show how corrupt this particular police system is, you know, let’s, let’s do this. So, um, I would start, and I would reach out to a domestic violence shelter, domestic violence shelters have ways of literally you can change your name, you can get things so that they can’t look up your address, you can do things to disappear, basically, if you are being threatened like that. So, I would contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline. I think it’s the National Domestic Violence Hotline. So, they have information on how to get safe, what to do, etcetera, for sure. Okay, um, okay. Answered that question answered that question. Should you move? You know, it depends. If, if your police department is not doing anything, and you’ve made them aware that they’re not doing anything, then I would look into, Yeah, moving. Absolutely. But here’s the thing. If the stalker is really crazy, that’s a good possibility they could follow, which is why if you’re going to move, you want to disappear from the public records, you want to make sure that they can’t just do a public search and find Thank you, John, find your new address your new phone number, I mean, etc. Is it a pain in the hind end to do that? You bet. But if it gets rid of a stalker, it’s worth it.

So again, I would contact your domestic violence shelter. You might also look into a lawyer. Because here’s the thing, if you’ve got an order in place, and the police are doing literally nothing, you may have a lawsuit. So, look at that. So anyway, because I swear to God, it’s like, public agencies do not listen. But if you hit them where it hurts, which is in the pocketbook, they suddenly start paying attention and start doing things. Funny how that works. All right.

Um, okay. I am in long-term recovery from a very toxic family five years, no contact. How do I keep strong? Oh, Kay. So, leaving a toxic family is difficult it is because that’s been our family, right? And that’s what we thought was normal until we came out of it. And we’re like, whoa, this isn’t normal. So, you want to have support, you want to be in a support group support groups are great. Now keep in mind, though, that there are a lot of predators in support groups, so you’re going to have to be careful, but support groups are really good. It’s good to get support. It’s good to go talk to other people that have gone no contact that are, you know, working on themselves. Get with a good trauma therapist. This is how you keep strong as you keep working on you. You will keep working on you. You cannot fix them because you did not break them. You work on you. They may have broken you are bent. You can work on you. So that’s what you want to do so you want to get with a good trauma therapist. Get into a support group out of the fog.net. I think has support groups you can look up narcissist survivors there’s tons of support groups out there get with a good trauma therapist work the books I recommend C PTSD from Surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, the disease to Please Harriet breaker. The Self-Esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi The Inner Child Workbook either by Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor. All of those are great books get plans in place. I think the betrayal is something that kind of literally knocks us off our feet when we realized that our family of origin was no bueno, didn’t support us, wasn’t kind wasn’t good to us, you know, really betrayed us. The betrayal is really hard to deal with but necessary write and burn letters Dear mom Dear Dad, dear abuser, dear brother, dear sister, whoever was abusive, you go through the whole thing the good, the bad, the ugly, the horrific, the unforgivable, and at the very end, kick them out of your head. Y’all don’t have any space up here anymore. I’m evicting you by the by now go pound sand by you’re not up here not allowing it by trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, let it go. Okay.

The other thing you want to do is get plans in place so when we go no contact with a family. We are going to look at things differently holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, important events, family emergencies. What are we going to do? Deaths in the family, how are we going to go to the funeral or not? You know, do we need to be involved with it. So, it’s really sitting down and deciding what your boundaries are. With the family, you’ve gone no contact with so so and to be aware toxic families will do a Hoover toxic families will do the whole Oh, medical emergency so and so is dying; you need to get back in touch with the family you need to get back in touch with your sister or brother you need to get back. Be careful because they do medical Hoover’s, they do a family emergency Hoover’s. They do Hoover’s to try to drag you back into the family to be in contact with them. So, you want to sit down and decide, okay, am I going to contact them? If they say there’s an emergency? Or am I going to kind of feel it out and see what’s going on? I would suggest feeling it out and seeing what’s going on and making sure it’s a real emergency and not just, you know, come back into the fold emergency if that makes any sort of sense. So, its deaths in the family. That’s another thing. So, it’s like okay, so do you really want to go to the funeral? You don’t have to if you don’t want to now, society will say Oh, but you have to go; why? They were abusive? Why would I go? The only reason I would go is so I could probably put a pile of flaming dog doo-doo on their grave. No, thank you. I don’t want to go, no, thank you. You know, so really, it’s sitting down and deciding what you want and what your boundaries are.

Kris Godinez  48:14

If you’ve gone no contact, stay no contact. You know, if there’s a family emergency, suss it out see what’s really going on. See if this is a Hoover it very well could be if there’s a death in the family that’s up to you whether or not you want to go or what you could do is wait until after the funeral and then go visit then go visit the grave. That is something you could do. Thank you, Siri. I’m so that’s something to think about. So, these are all you know, when we go no contact, we don’t really think about all of the things that are included with that. So, with holidays, right? So, in the past, you might have gone and hung out with a dysfunctional family. Well, now you don’t have to and rather than looking at it as a oh my gosh, I don’t have any family to hang out with it should be uh, oh my gosh, I don’t have any family to hang out with. Huzzah! I get to do what I want. So, plan something for you. Go do something that you’ve always wanted to do. What have you always wanted to do on Thanksgiving? What have you always wanted to do on Christmas? What have you always wanted to do for New Years? What have you always wanted to do on your birthday and not have it ruined by a bunch of narcissists? What do you want? Start thinking about that. And or this is why  I like support groups. There are things to do with other people. You can have friends giving friends Thanksgiving or a friend’s Christmas or, you know, whatever. There are other ways to have community without being in a toxic family, and don’t let that trip down memory lane drag you back into the family.

So, the biggest thing that happens to people is they leave an abusive family. The holidays hit and they get nostalgic and they’re like oh, but well that’s your inner child get with your therapy. Just work on the inner child, do something else, do something fun, do something you enjoy that you’ve always wanted to do that you couldn’t do because of the family. So that is my suggestion for that. Make sure you have friends, make sure you have support, make sure you have people to talk to. This is really important. You’re not alone. Dear God, you’re not alone, there are so many of us that have gone through having to go no contact. Now with me, I had my older sister, so I wasn’t completely no contact. But for a good portion of my family. Yep, I didn’t speak to them. So anyway, there is that. And that is how you keep strong, you work on yourself, and you come up with contingency plans so that you’re not alone or feeling alone. And you don’t avoid your emotions. That is really important is that that’s the other thing is that when we get out of an abusive relationship, or family relationship, one of the things I hear a lot is, I don’t, I don’t want to feel, I don’t want to think about it, I don’t want it. Well, guess what? You got to deal with it. You do. Because if you don’t, if you just shove it underneath the carpet, if you just, you know, oh, it’s dirty, I’m just going to put it under the carpet, you’re going to get a lumpy carpet, that’s going to be really hard to vacuum. And it’s twice as hard to get clean. Do you see where I’m going with that? So don’t be afraid of your emotions.

Don’t be afraid of your anger. You’re going to be pissed you are, you’re going to be sad because you were betrayed, you’re going to be, you know, all sorts of stuff happy because they’re gone. And you don’t have to deal with them. Wow, you know, relieved all sorts of stuff. So, the emotions are okay, allow, allow, allow process, get with a good trauma group, trauma support group, get with a good trauma therapist, you know, and try different modalities. So, like I said, you know, CBT is great talk therapy in conjunction with EMDR. I think those are that’s a really good combination because you’re hitting it from two different levels. So, there’s tap therapy; there’s EFT, there’s, I mean, there’s all sorts of modalities that work really well with trauma. So, find a good one.

Now, when you’re looking for a trauma therapist, make sure that they’re not just trauma-informed, they need to know they’re a hole from a hole in the ground. Nothing pisses me off more than when I hear somebody went to somebody who was trauma-informed, informed, and they didn’t know what they were doing. So yeah, make sure they know what they’re doing. So, ask other people who do they see. Do they like their therapist? Do they understand narcissistic trauma? Do they get toxic families? Do they get having to be an orphan at age 50? Do they get that? Do they understand what it is to finally figure out the betrayal and the abuse? that’s those are the questions you got to ask. Okay. Um, alright.

What can we do if people if the people being abused our nieces or nephews, I have tried many times to protect my niece. But her mother seems to put her right back in unsafe situations. You just have to keep calling. Unfortunately, CPS, you call authorities, you know since the mom is not doing the right thing, then you have to take it up to the next highest level. Seriously, that’s what you do. That’s what you do. And you work with those kids as much as you can if you have access to them. I don’t know how old they are, you know, but you let them know nobody has the right to hit them. Nobody has the right to scream at them. Nobody has the right to sexually molest them. Yeah, and you just take it up to the next you’re going to have to probably call authorities. You’re probably going to have to call CPS or DCS or whatever. They’ve named it. lipstick on a pig if you ask me, but, you know, there it is. Okay, let’s see.

Um, have I decided on the meet and greet date yet for Salt Lake City? No, I haven’t. But I am looking at probably August, just as close as I’ve gotten because I’m doing all of this stuff this right now. And soon as I get back from all my travels, I promise you, I will throw in Salt Lake City. So, it’ll be either August or September. So, I promise I promise. I promise. So, there is that. Okay. Do we have any other questions? Let me look. Oh, we’re done. Okay. All right. So. So Salt Lake City will be either August or September, I will get the data. Give me a couple of weeks. I got to kind of finesse things through and figure out what I’m doing. Okay, thoughts. What am I thinking? That one after that is in Florida, and that’s December 2. So that’ll be in Clearwater, Florida. The tickets are for sale on krisgodinez.com. That is, it.

Other than that, we need to write letters. We need to contact people. We need to stand up for the homeless. We need to stand up for ourselves. We need to stand up for those who are being abused, and I think the thing that annoys me It is when I hear somebody go, Oh, well, that doesn’t affect me. You are selfish. Don’t get me started. It affects all of us because once an abuser feels confident in their abusing, they continue to abuse, and they abuse other people, and they push the envelope because they’re psychopaths. Which part of dark triad psychopaths Do you not effing understand? So, they don’t stop. They don’t stop there. They’re like the Terminator. So, you’ve got to stop them. They’ll stop if the benefits do not outweigh the cons. So, if they’re getting embarrassed publicly or if they’re going to jail or if they’re whatever, they’ll stop doing it because it’s no fun anymore. So, for them, it’s their idea of fun is really twisted anyway. So, there is that so write your your congressman write The Supreme idiot court. You know, tell them this is not okay. Tell them this is not this is not okay. This is not subjective die now is a threat. So all right. That is, it. All right, you guys have a great week. And what am I talking about?

Next week, we’re going to talk about anxiety. So, we will be talking about anxiety and how to cope and why we get nervous over seemingly odd things. So, we do it’s like social anxiety or going somewhere new or driving or, you know, what is that about? So, I’m going to call that a case of nerves. Because if I say anxiety, YouTube is going to be like, Oh, we can’t talk about so. Anyway. All right. So, a case of nerves so we’re going to talk about anxiety, we’re going to talk about what it is, why it happens, and what you can do to help yourself because you show me somebody who survived abuse. I will show you somebody who has anxiety. There it is. Alright, guys, have a great week, and Happy Fourth of July and I will talk to you next week. I will talk to you on Wednesday. Okay, bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 07-02-2023 When People Do Nothing appeared first on Kris Godinez.

When a breakup with an abuser happens, have you ever wondered why they suddenly go on a rampage trying to discredit their former target of abuse? What does an abuser get out of such egregious behavior? Why do people believe them? What is a flying monkey anyway? These and many more questions will be answered in this week’s episode!

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hello, today is Father’s Day. So that’s the current event I wanted to talk about. I completely forgot it was Father’s Day because, I guess you know, it’s kind of one of those. It means nothing to me because my dad was abusive. So, for those of you who had good dads, good on you. Have a great day, go enjoy yourselves. For those of us who had sperm donors that were abusive. Here’s the deal today sucks. It just let’s just call it what it is. It sucks. Because we’re reminded through you know, stupid commercials or you know, going out to dinner or whatever, that we didn’t have a good dad. So basically, your goal should you Your mission, should you choose to accept it, take super good care of yourself. It’s okay to acknowledge that your sperm donor was abusive. It is. Now if you are the acts of a sperm donor, that’s abusive obviously you’re not going to say that in front of the kids, the kids will figure it out on their own. But for those of us that had a parent that was abusive, the dad that was abusive, you know, it’s perfectly okay to write and burn. I can’t tell you the number of fathers days I did that where it was just like dear asshat and then just laying into him and just being like, you know, sorry you weren’t you weren’t a dad you know if you want it to be thought of well and written about kindly. How about you not being an abusive POS?

So anyway, there that it so basically what I’m saying is, is that today is hard for a lot of us. I’ve gotten to the point, though, where it doesn’t even kind of register, you know, it’s kind of like to me it’s just another day, but yeah, so you know, right and burn if it’s bothering you, right and burn. Self-Care, self-care like a boss. Take super good care of yourself. Take your power back. Seriously, because I know for my family, it was oh, we need to keep this secret that dad is crazy. Well, everyone in town knew he was nuts. In my book, what’s wrong with your dad? I talk about it even know where it is. It’s here somewhere. I talk about how a woman came up to me at spruce drugs in Gridley, California, and was like, What’s wrong with your dad? I’m like, Oh, sweetheart, do you have about four hours? So, I mean, it’s okay to acknowledge it. It’s okay to be like; This person was abusive. This this parent was not a good parent. This person was abusive. I endured whatever and, and because it’s an and world, I’m taking my power back. I am going to take care of myself today. I’m going to do mirror work. I am going to work on self-esteem. I am going to work on boundaries. And you know what? It’s okay for me to acknowledge out loud that Dad was abusive. And I think that’s important. Because we get a lot of that. You know, you can’t first of all, you can’t say anything about the dead. Oh, oh contraire. Okay, for me when somebody says that to me, I look him dead in the eyes. And I say I dare him. I dare his ass hind end to show up and say something to me because he will get an ear full. I’m not afraid of him anymore.

So yeah, it’s we’ve got this weird, you know, you can’t see anything ill of the dead. Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can absolutely 100% And if they’re stupid enough to come back and try to haunt me damn, I dare him, you know what I’m saying? Um, and then the other thing we get is Oh, Honor thy mother and father go pound sand. I’m sorry. It’s a two-way street. The very next line says parents do not bring your children to anger. So, you know if some if somebody pulls that they’re a flying monkey or they’ve got issues of their own that should be like a blaring huge glaring red flag. Okay. So um, yeah, so there’s that. Um, so anyway, so because it is Father’s Day. That’s the that is the current event. Do take good care of yourself. Do acknowledge the abuse. Do you acknowledge yourself validate yourself, you survived you’re listening, you survived Good job, you know, and write and burn, get it out of your head, get it onto paper, get to the point where when Father’s Day happens, it’s not even a blip on your radar until you’re like, oh, okay, you know. So that’s where I want you guys to get. And basically, it’s acknowledging it, it’s getting it out in the open. That is the big thing.

Abuse and shame and all the crap that our Father gave us, if they were abusive, is all it thrives in the dark. So, bring it to the light, bring it to the light, get it out. Be honest, be open with yourself. Do not obviously if you share children with a narcissist do not tell the kids Oh, he’s an asshat. And this that and the other thing they’ll figure it out. Do be honest. And you point out behaviors. That’s what you do you point out behaviors. Anyway. That’s what I wanted to talk about. Anyway. So that is the current event for today.

So hi, how are you guys doing? today? We are talking about why they smear why smear what is what did they get out of that? What is up with that? Oh, so much they. So

Kris Godinez  06:15

Narcissist, you’ve got to understand when you’re dealing with somebody who is narcissistic personality disorder, okay. And they are not just a trader, too. They are like full-blown, match all the criteria, etc., etc. Generally, what you see happening is that all of the different personality disorders start overlapping, okay? So, they will be very dramatic. They can be very, what’s the word I’m looking for vindictive, like nobody’s business. And the biggest mistake I see people making when they go to divorce or leave or get out of one of these relationships is that I will start to warn them I will say you absolutely need to read Splitting by Bill Eddie and Randy Krieger. And you absolutely need to read the No-Nonsense Guide to Divorce by Laurie Hillis. So, you understand the judicial system. So, you know how this whole thing works. It’s not immediate it. So, I encourage them to do that. And then I warn them about what I have seen in the past what I have seen abusers do to their target of abuse. And the words that come out of their mouth really terrify me, they are like, Oh, they would never do that. They Oh, no, they would never do that. And I’m sitting there like pulling my hair outgoing. Take the blinders off. There’s a reason you’re leaving him. He did X, Y and Z. She did XY and Z to you what in the hell tarnation makes you think that they’re not going to do beyond XY and Z? You know?

So, um, it’s a defense mechanism. I think I think it’s we don’t want to believe that somebody could be that heinous. They are that heinous they are. And I think the other thing that we do is we make the mistake of thinking that because we wouldn’t do something like that, that they wouldn’t do something like polar opposite, we wouldn’t do something like that they absolutely would do something like that. That’s why they project. So, this whole projection thing that goes along with the smearing, is them assuming that you’re going to act the way that they would act. And unfortunately, it’s the reverse, you’re assuming that they’re going to act the way you would act. And you cannot do that you’ve literally got to put yourself into their shoes and go how is this asshat going to act? What how is this going to serve their ego? Why? Because there is no there there? I cannot stress that enough. There is absolutely no there there. There it is all ego there is nothing but ego. That is why they cannot change. That is why they will not change. That is why they’ll they’re manipulative. It’s all about ego defense. Me, me me I, I, I. More. My genitals. Seriously, that’s what it’s all about.

The smear campaign gets going because they’re behaving based on Well, that’s what I will do. That’s what I would do. So, they’re going to do that. So, I’m going to beat him to the punch and then they start and they’re crazy. And if they’re a dark triad if they’re crazy enough they’ll be the ones that end up getting a restraining order because they’re crazy. So, um so that’s why they do the smear campaign is because there’s no there’s nothing up here. Nothing but ego. Like seriously, they cannot relate to another person. They literally cannot put themselves into somebody else’s shoes. You and I can put ourselves in somebody else’s shoes and go oh, what that must feel like holy crap, and feel it and have empathy. There is none of that there, and any that they pretended to have It was just exactly that it was a pretense. It was a, an act. It was an illusion.

Okay. So, their whole smear campaign thing is based off of welll this is what I would do, they must be going to do this. So, I’m going to beat him to the punch. And then they go about doing the things that they would do because they’re heinous. They don’t understand that not everybody thinks or behaves the way they do. And when somebody thinks differently than they do or behaves differently than they do, it upsets their little applecart. Let me tell you because they’re very threatened by that.

Remember, we talked about how threatened the abusive parent, the toxic parent is, by the talented kid. Because they don’t want them to succeed. They don’t want them to do well. They don’t want them to outshine them. So, it’s, it’s kind of the same thing. If a spouse is not behaving the way that they would, oh, my gosh, it threatens them so badly. Anyway, the smear campaign is all ego based. Okay. That’s why they’re doing it. There’s there’s so much going on. They’re sadistic. Okay, this is what they would do. This is what they enjoy. Not what you would enjoy. I mean, normal, healthy people do not enjoy drama number one, unless it’s on the screen. Okay. So, um, but they are, they need drama to live seriously. They need drama The way the rest of us need oxygen. So, it’s a lot of drama. And it’s a popularity contest. It’s so when they start the smear campaign, it’s this power and control, and Ooh, can I get their family to abandon them? Can I get their support system to abandon them? So, there’s that element of power and control, isolation, and sadism. And they will lie. You know, they’ll say they’ll accuse since they are projecting, they will accuse the spouse, the one that’s divorcing them, male or female, doesn’t matter of the very thing that they’re doing. So, if they were the cheater, if they were the, you know, stole money, if they lied, and did XYZ, they’ll flip it around and say that the ex is the one that’s doing all of that, or did all of that, etc., etc., etc. And it’s again, its projection because it’s like, well, I would do that. So, they must have. Yeah, they really do think like that, guys. They really, really, truly do. And when I hear apologists go, oh, but they’re sick, and oh, they can’t change. No, they could, they refuse, they refuse. They’ll go to therapy until the therapist starts going, Okay, and what’s your part in this? And then they’re just like, nope, not having it. I’m perfect. There’s nothing wrong with me. I’ve never made a mistake in my life. My father actually said that. He actually his favorite quote was, I’ve never been wrong, only temporarily mistake and now realize this is when we were out in the middle of the forest. And our station wagon was high centered on a rock in the middle of a creek and Jesus Christ. Anyway, the point being, is that they are never wrong in their heads. Healthy, normal people are able, and most of us probably sit there and go, geez, I wish I could have done that better. Yeah, kind of screwed that one up, huh? Yeah. narcissists, don’t they, won’t they absolutely.…Their ego is driving the show. And it’s dangerous. It’s dangerous because egos are out of control. So that is what is driving the smear campaign.

So, there were a couple of really good articles that I pulled up from. What did I do? I just had my glasses there. They’re from Psychology Today. And this one is okay. Now I’m going to read that one later. What is the narcissist smear campaign? What is it tactics, and how to deal with it? And this is on choosing therapy.com. I thought this one was really good. So, I’m going to read this Who’s a by, written by Katie Gillis, and she’s an LCSW. And it was reviewed by Raji Abul Hossen. And he’s a medical doctor. So anyway, I thought this one was really good because it really covered the whole thing.

So, a narcissistic smear campaign is used to discredit another person by hijacking the narrative of the relationship after it is ended. A narcissist will spread lies and create embellishments about their victim, their target of abuse, in order to destroy the individual’s reputation. This is a common behavior for those with narcissistic personality disorder when they realize that they have lost control over the person. What is a narcissistic smear campaign? Narcissistic smear campaign is a narcissistic manipulation tactic used to harm a person’s reputation and isolate them from their support network. While this method is most commonly used by those with narcissistic personality disorder, smear campaigns are not that different from typical efforts to slander an individual, such as that between politicians and an election, however, the big difference is one conducted by a narcissist will be incredibly vindictive and persistent, they won’t stop. It’s like a dog with a bone. Often this is what a narcissist does at the end of the relationship. Elements of a smear campaign is vengeful, and there’s almost a perceived injury such as a threat to their pride that causes the narcissist to engage in the smear campaign. Well, yeah, because they’re all about power control. And when a target of abuse leaves, their ego can’t handle it. You’re leaving? How dare you? How I leave you, you don’t leave me that seriously the way they think. But they won’t leave; that’s I wish they would all just go to Mars, no oxygen, that would be so nice. Anyway, I’m sorry. I have no sympathy for them. They’re abusive, they’re hurtful. They’ve harmed people. They’ve killed people. They’ve killed dogs, they killed cats.

Kris Godinez  16:00

They’ve killed you know, I just,I’m not sorry. And I’m not going to be sorry. I’m not sorry. I really wish they were gone. Um, it is done overtly. And it can be also done covertly. I want to be very clear. Their purpose, their behavior, is often excessive smear campaigns are much more than the occasional talking behind someone’s back. These are persistent and consistent acts to harm another person’s reputation. It is done purposefully. It is done purposefully. They know what they’re doing. Don’t kid yourself. a narcissist knows what they’re doing. Their actions are not done by mistake, despite what they may say to others about just being concerned. I just wanted to warn you because I’m so concerned about so and so’s behavior. They’re acting crazy. Oh, God, does that one sound familiar, guys? Holy crap. All right. Um, it is persistent. Even when faced with backlash, such as someone not believing them or getting a restraining order against them, their behaviors persist. It contains narcissistic projection, which we talked about.

Many with NPD traits project their bad qualities on to others. If they lie, steal they, and steal, they accused the target of doing the same thing. Its calculated narcissists know who they can and cannot manipulate in their smear campaign. No person is off limits, but they usually have an idea of who will believe what lies.

Although caveat, I will say two things. They can be sneaky about it; they can be less overt. They can be very much the oh, Lord of the Rings, Worm tongue. That can be like worm tongue. You know, it’s like this dripping poison. Just, you know, just little comments, little comments. And here’s the thing you guys have to remember. The smear campaign has generally started months before you’re ready to leave. They know on some level that you’re out. They know, on some level, they do. And they will start the smear campaign before you’ve actually left. So, there is that I wanted to point that out.

Um, why narcissists use the smear campaign? Well, there are many reasons why narcissists use a smear campaign, and they can often vary depending on the nature of the relationship with the victim. Usually, they revolve around a need for revenge, a goal to discredit the target, and the narcissist’s own lack of compassion and empathy. They do it to protect their image. They’re afraid of being seen as less than they do it to maintain control. It may be a way to remain in control of a situation. If they feel they’re losing power over a person, this can cause a narcissist to go full force into a smear campaign in order to try to convince others to their side. So, it’s a popularity contest. That’s what I started to say. It’s, it’s, it’s kind of like when the divorce happens, or when the split happens. They literally are like, well, you’re either with me or against me. How about I’m not with you, and I don’t give a Frick what you do, buddy. Um, yeah, it’s they’re very much you got to choose, you got to take sides, you got to choose. And something I very much want to point out is, is that you cannot have mutual friends. You cannot. And it’s going to talk about this in this article a little bit. If you have mutual friends, you run the risk of them being flying monkeys. You also run the risk of them reporting, which is a flying monkey back to the abuser and telling them where you are, what you’re doing, who you’re seeing, where you’re working, etc., etc., etc. It’s dangerous. Do not have mutual friends. If you have somebody who goes, I’m Switzerland. How nice for you. Bye. We’re done. No, thank you. You know, because you cannot risk having one of the Switzerland types say something to the other person. Okay?

A lot of times when they start the smear campaign, if they are really unhinged, they’re dangerous. They really are. They will stalk they will go to extreme lengths to try to get you fired. They’ll try to do things to harm your relationship with your family. They’ll try to do things to make sure that you are thrown out of your apartment. I mean, it’s crazy cray cray we have entered cray-cray land. Hold on. Okay. All right.

They want to appear to be the victim. Many people with narcissistic traits believe they are doing what they need to do and aren’t behaving inappropriately. Often, such as in the case of ending of a relationship or a friendship, or an employer got to be clear about that. They are the ones being victimized. a smear campaign is used to further this false narrative that they have been wronged. And it’s also used to get revenge. When the person with NPD traits feels wronged. a smear campaign can be used to get revenge on the person for any perceived offense. Whether they do this by making a victim look bad to their boss, or their family members’ court system, or their social circle circles. narcissists create a sense of doubt about the individual as a part of their efforts for revenge. So, part of it is their narrative is that you’re crazy. Let’s just be clear. Their narrative is that you’re crazy. And you’re the problem, and you’re the reason and bla bla bla bla bla, the biggest mistake I see people making, and we’re going to get into this a little more when I talk about the five ways to survive this, but I just I just want to just drill this into your guys’ head. The biggest mistake I see people make when they’re dealing with somebody who is targeting them and smearing them and this that and the other thing is that the target of abuse starts trying to defend themselves. Stop, stop trying to defend yourself. Listen to me now; believe me later, people who are willing to believe the worst of you absolutely do not deserve the best of you. Let me say that again. People who are willing to believe the worst of you absolutely do not deserve the best of you. You cut them off. You owe them no explanation, period, period. And if they’re claiming to be your family, they should know who you are. Hmm, you hear what I’m saying? So be exceedingly cautious around people who either demand an explanation or side with the abuser, or want to remain mutual friends. No way you can’t afford that. You cannot afford that.

So when they get you on the ropes, okay, when they get you explaining yourself, so let’s loop this back to codependency, I want people to like me, I need to explain myself. I can’t. I don’t want Oh, they can’t think this of me. Ba, ba. Well, you cannot control what other people think. Let’s be clear. You cannot control what other people think. You have to know who you are. And no matter what the abuser has said and no matter who believes it, radio silence because what they’re doing is they’re poking the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear, poke the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear waiting for you to explode so that they can sit back and go Ah, see ya told you she was nuts. Told you he was crazy. Yeah, ah see, I’m right. Don’t play their game. The best way to win is to not play, and this is a game just like everything else they do. So, I just want to do bring that uphold on just a second to God. I need a haircut or something I don’t know. Anyway. Um, To get revenge, okay, we talked about that, too, sense of doubt.

To accomplish a goal or a victory. Because everything for an abuser is a win, it has to be a win, it cannot be a lose, it cannot be a draw has to be a win for them. Not all smear campaigns happen at the end of romantic relationships. Some occur in workplaces, especially if one is a boss or a coworker with narcissistic traits. For example, office smear campaigns achieve the goal of making the narcissist look good and the coworkers look bad. Okay. Examples of smear campaigns families, they target their own family is not okay, so targeting their own families not off limit when a narcissist is wrong. A narcissistic parent might use the smear campaign against an estranged child or the family scapegoat in order to distract others from the family dysfunction or discredit any allegations of of trauma or abuse. Romantic relationships, probably the most recognizable smear campaign, is the one that occurs against the narcissist’s ex-partner. This is often done as an act of revenge as the narcissist feels injured by this person ending the relationship Mmm, they’ll create lies in court. They’ll try to turn others in the family and circle of friends against them.

Kris Godinez  25:07

It’s much more than a breakup drama or high-conflict divorce as it is commonly labeled and often excuse it cannot be excused any more guys. Family court systems have to understand this is systematic. This is psychotic. Because healthy normal people don’t have time for a smear campaign. That’s a load of crap. And judges that fall for it really need to be absolutely taken off the bench. They really do because they should know better. I’m sorry. You’ve been in this business for how long you’ve seen how many divorces. Hello? You know, it just… don’t get me started. Friendships. Sometimes a narcissist may use a smear campaign against a friend in order to discredit and isolate them. A narcissistic friend will go out of their way to hurt the reputation of a friend who they feel has shamed them in some way. While many men are not familiar with this tactic and brushed it off as normal drama. a smear campaign is a severe form of bullying. It is not normal drama. Let me be clear, healthy, normal people don’t have drama, period. And I’ll tell you what, if somebody tries to start drama in my space, nope, I walk away, I have no problem shutting the door and going peace out. I’m not interested. So, there is that.

Work relationships. A narcissistic coworker may use a smear campaign against a colleague or office mate to elevate their position or reputation within the workplace. Similarly, a narcissistic boss could spread rumors about an employee to prevent them from succeeding, or about an ex-employee to prevent them from succeeding in their new role, or with the goal of making them look bad to other staff members or upper management because they are threatened.

It is very common to religious and spiritual cults. It is very common for cults to use smear campaigns against someone who they feel is putting the faith at risk by speaking out against them. They may use behavior modification on current members brainwashing in order to create a mutual and shared sense of doubt and disdain against the person who has left the cult shunning. shunning. So basically, it’s shunning. So, they’re not allowed to contact that person, that person if they are contacted, they will shame them try to bring them back into the fold. You know, you’re going to hell, you’re on the wrong path, blah, blah, blah, you know, that whole thing?

Okay so that is why they do that. This is why they smear is it’s all power and control. It’s all about manipulation. It’s all about a win that whole thing. So, let’s quickly, and yes, I will get to the questions. Let’s quickly talk about how to cope with all that. Yay, Team! Okay!

Tips for dealing with a narcissistic smear campaign that’s still in the choosing therapy.com One do not feed into their manipulation. As difficult as it may seem, staying calm and collected when dealing with a narcissist is essential. Sometimes if someone refuses to react, this can stop the smear campaign in its tracks. At the very least, it will usually prevent it from getting worse. fighting back against the smear campaign can trigger narcissistic rage, which will only increase the narcissist’s desire to maintain their vision vengeful efforts, so basically, it’s kind of a Pick Your Battles kind of thing.

So, narcissists are very easily injured narcissistic injury. And as I said, explaining to them or to the flying monkeys why you’re not what they said only plays into their game. So, you do not want to do that. It’s kind of like gray rock. You want to do gray rock. You don’t need to explain yourself. So, when a narcissist starts accusing you of stuff, especially if it’s in like text, or our family wizard, or whatever, do not respond. You are only legally responsible for responding to what is directly related to the divorce or directly related to the kids. That’s it. So, if they go on this novel of you did this, and you did that, and you’re a horrible person, do not respond to any of it. Don’t, and I know that little kid inside of you is going to be like, but, but, but… you got to be like no Little one, we’re going to walk away, hold my hand, we’re walking away, and you walk away, or have somebody else read the email and pick out the parts that you need to respond to. That’s another good way to deal with that.

Okay, don’t try to persuade others. This can be the one of the most frustrating things for victims of narcissistic smear campaigns unfortunately, trying to persuade someone that the information they’re being fed is false can have the opposite effect of making you look like the vindictive one. Those who believe in narcissists lies are not your true friends. Did I just say that? Yes, I did. Okay, pick your battles when dealing with a narcissist. smear campaign Pick Your Battles. If the narcissist is making claims about your children, family, or employment, those are important enough to address everything else, such as lies about you having an addiction or some other nonsense. Simply ignore it. Eventually, their lies will catch up with them and their vindictive behaviors will shine through. And that is very true.

So, I had a stalker at one point, that was very angry at me because their favorite target of abuse got away from them. And they tried to take me before the board, and I had to go before the board and defend myself and you bet your sweet bippy, I did. And as soon as the board was out, I went, and I got a restraining order against them. So, and then when the restraining order was up, they tried to do it again. And I simply came on air, and I said, You do this again, and it will be reinstated. So, you better back off. So, you’ve got to be ballsy. You cannot be afraid of them anymore. You can’t, and especially when they’re going after your livelihood, your family, your children, you know, if they’re doing things that are harmful to the kids, absolutely. You cannot be afraid, and I know this is hard because of the frickin court system. But yeah, okay, hold on. Let’s get back to, and then we’ll get to the questions, I promise.

Stay true to yourself. Staying true to yourself during this time period is crucial. a narcissist is doing everything they can to get you to react in order to justify their claims of you being crazy, bipolar, selfish, do not give them the satisfaction of reacting to their claims. Remember your worth trauma therapist, work the self-esteem workbook boundaries like a boss The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione, or Catherine Taylor. Basically, you need to really this is not the time to slack off on therapy, guys; either going to see a therapist or working the workbooks, you’ve got to because you’ve got to constantly remember who you are because they’re going to keep trying to tell you who you are, you’re not any of the things that they’re saying. Mirror work, do the mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, you are a great person, and none of the things that your ex is saying is true. And I love you and then walk out seriously. All right, um, model good behavior, whether it be remaining positive as a positive example to your children or just choosing to avoid stepping in the narcissist to the narcissist level, conducting yourself professionally and respectfully at all times is necessary. If you bash the person, others will question if they what they are hearing is true. So basically, you don’t want to say anything that you do not want to be repeated in court, basically. And this is hard because, again, our natural instinct is to go but, but, but you know, and that’s the inner child and to defend ourselves and to say, Well, they did this and they did that and nobody cares, people. Nobody cares. What is going to matter is you rising above not responding, not responding, because if they’re sending all of these crazy, crazy grams, though, you know, our family wizard and texts and things like that, and you’re simply responding to what is having to do with the kids. That’s going to really, hopefully, if you have a good judge, that’s going to show the judge you’re not responding, you’re not playing, you’re interested in the kid’s welfare, etc. So do not get down to their level. seek support from others. Stay in contact with loved ones provides you with much-needed support and guidance. However, cease contact with any mutual friends or colleagues who are acting as flying monkeys’ narcissistic enablers. Focus your energy on staying close to those who truly support you. When you learn about nasty things being said about you, you will need someone to lean on. Friends and family who are not part of the narcissist’s attempts at triangulation are the best resources. Limit unnecessary communication. We just talked about that consider therapy. We just talked about that. Okay, in my experience working with survivors of dysfunctional toxic relationships, a smear campaign is very real is a very real and very traumatic event for the target. I advise the advice I give to my clients often corresponds with many of the suggestions listed in this article.

Kris Godinez  34:18

My advice to everyone is to pay attention when someone seems angry or out for revenge, taking talking about their painful experience is one thing bashing another cruelly is unacceptable. While not all smear campaigns are as obvious, be mindful of how someone conducts themselves in regard to another person can help prevent the spread of cruel misinformation. So, what they’re talking about is you know, when somebody comes to you and starts gossiping, basically, so that that is that is what they do. This is gossip, they’re spreading gossip.

So, the next article is five steps to surviving a narcissistic smear campaign do not engage. Pick your battles. Know your Truth continue to conduct yourself professionally. We talked about that. You ask yourself, Is this communication or reply necessary a nasty text about how ugly you are? Ignore it. A text about childcare? Yeah, that warrants a reply. Construct an emotionless surprise, I’m sorry, reply, take the emotion out of it. Absolutely. Facts and figures. So, you’ve got to be Mr. Spock when you’re dealing with these types because if you give them nothing, they’ve got nothing to come back at you with. They’ll have to get more and more outlandish with whatever they’re doing. So lastly, make the reply brief, one or two sentences at the most. I also recommend waiting about four hours before replying unless it’s childcare or court-ordered, okay, like that. If its court ordered that you have to respond immediately, okay, fine. Other than that, given a chance to reflect your emotions and construct a professional reply. Decrease the common links we talked about that okay.

So basically, in essence, they are incredibly immature; they are incredibly tit for tat, tallionic, you know, you do this, an eye for an eye. I’m going to get you. I’m going to show you. I’m the one in power. I, I, I,  did you notice that? Um, so the smear campaign feels personal, but you have to understand is completely about them. Because they’re talking about themselves. So, and they’re wanting revenge, and they’re wanting power, and they’re wanting control, and they want to see, you know, it’s a popularity contest, who can they get to leave you basically is what they’re doing. So, okay, let’s dive into the questions shall we?

Why are smears so successful? Because we don’t ever teach people about narcissism and abuse? We don’t? How many of you guys knew about this stuff before you went through it? I’ll wait. They don’t talk about it in high school. They certainly don’t. And they should because abuse usually starts there. We don’t teach it in the colleges. When I was going through my master’s degree. I asked about personality disorders because I knew my dad had a personality disorder. And the answer was, oh, well, they’re going to get rid of those. Because remember, there was a huge fight between half of the APA and the other half of the APA. The APA wanted to get rid of half of the APA wanted to get rid of personality disorders, the other half clearly didn’t. And thankfully, won. And I’ll give you three reasons why because the half that wanted to get rid of them were probably disordered themselves. So, they were like, Oh, well, you know, we can’t talk about it. And oh, well, you know, it’s a choice. And, you know, we don’t want to make them wrong. And I’m like. I will make them wrong. As long as the day is long. I will, if they’re harming people if they’re hurting people, if they’re killing kids, guy in Ohio, don’t get me started. If there, you know, killing animals and using that as an intimidation. Yeah, I will make them wrong. As long as the day goes on. You bet. You don’t like it. Don’t watch my channel. That’s my attitude. Sorry. And I’m not sorry. So, there it is. Oh, I’m on a tear today, aren’t I. Oh, anyway. Um, so that is why people are not onto it. They haven’t been taught. It’s not really been. It’s just now starting to hit the mainstream. And unfortunately, there is these apologists out there, like I said, who were like, Oh, poor narcissist. I’m like, No, not when you’ve seen what I’ve seen, personally and professionally. Back off, you know what I’m saying. So, we need more education. We need more education. It needs to be talked about, it needs to be out in the open, people need to be sharing their experiences, people need to get this is not just a one-off. This is not I’m sorry. I have close to 30,000 followers, and Shahida Arabi has got close to I don’t know, 40,000 followers or more. Same thing with Kim Saeed and then, you know, other speakers that speak out about this, this is not a one-off. It needs to be educated. It needs to be shared, it needs to be talked about. it needs to be discussed. It needs to be brought out into the open, and it needs to be people need to be aware of what to do when one of these jack wagons start trying to you know, harm you hurt you abuse, you discard, you devalue you, you know, smear, you stalk you, etc., etc., etc. So, yeah, it’s not discussed enough in depth. And I think people need to understand that if somebody comes to you and starts smearing somebody or gossiping, okay, let’s call it gossiping because that’s kind of what it is. Starts gossiping and going, oh, did you know that so and so said such and such, you need to stop that cold seriously. When somebody comes to me and tries to start something, and it doesn’t happen very often because clearly, they know how I’m going to respond. But if somebody comes to me into trying to start something. I will stop them and be like get them on the phone. You know what, I’ve got my phone. Where’s my phone? Let you know. Let me just get them on the phone for you right now. Let’s just see if that actually happened. They stop it. They Oh no, and they start backpedaling. So basically, you want to you want to nip gossip in the bud. You do because it’s especially now if it’s happy gossip like so and so got a promotion. That’s great. That’s fabulous. I love it. That’s fabulous. But if it’s a negative gossip, if they’re if they’re casting aspersions, you nip it in the bud, you know what, I’m really not interested in hearing this. But why? Because it’s not coming from the source. And then you walk off. You don’t have to participate. You don’t have to play it.

So why do so many people believe this because they were not privy to it and never see through them? Okay, flying monkeys are one of two things people who believe the abuser are one of two things. They are either just pathetically uneducated, ignorant, do not understand abuse, do not understand how charming some of these abusers can be, and how dangerous they are. I and or they’re a narcissist themselves, and they’re siding with the aggressor, which is an inner child thing to do. So, there’s a lot there’s multi-levels going on here.

Um, what can we do in response if it’s a part of a community we want to belong to? But this narc smeared me? Well, here’s the thing, if you rise above and you just be you, people will figure it out. Seriously. When I had that crazy person go to my board, I was like, Okay, bring it, you know, all I can do is be me. All I can do is speak the truth. And hopefully, I’ll end up okay. And I did so, and I was I worried about my community. Yeah, a little bit. But I also knew the people who know me knew that she was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And yeah, so anyway, the point being is you be you. And you do not allow the intimidation because this is intimidation. This is bullying. This is bullying on frickin steroids. So, you do not allow the intimidation to stop you. And like I said, people who are willing to believe the worst of you do not deserve the best of you. So, you just go and be you.

Um, when a narc smears their target, do they eventually believe the lies they’ve told? Absolutely. That not eventually, immediately, immediately. I mean, they will. You can watch them tell a lie. I can’t even begin to describe it’s like those micro-expressions. And you can kind of see them doing somersaults in their head, going, no, this is true. No, yeah, this is true. Like, immediately, like, it’s not even eventually, I’m going to believe it. No, immediately they believe it immediately. Because it’s their lie. And they’re God in their universe. You know what I’m saying? Um, is it like, they think something about their target, and they make it the truth? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s a hard one for people to wrap their heads around. And I think that’s in part why people are like, Oh, they would never do that. Because this is absolutely so mind-blowing. It is. It’s like, yeah, they absolutely lie and believe 100% what they’ve just lied about, seriously. And, and they twist the truth, and they twist reality to fit their narrative. 100% So if their narrative is you’re a bad person, you’re a bad parent, you’re this, you’re that you’re The other thing, they will convince themselves 110% That that is true. And every lie they say is going to try to fit that narrative to get as many people to believe that as possible so that they surround themselves with a bunch of Yes, men, or Yes, women that tell them, oh yeah, you’re right. Oh, yeah, what you’re thinking is true. That’s what they do. That’s what they do. That’s what cult leaders do.

Kris Godinez  44:18

Okay, if the narcs lies are found out by the flying monkeys, will they abandon the narc? It depends. So sometimes they do, and sometimes they don’t know. When they do abandon the narc is generally because they were ignorant and uneducated and did not understand the true nature of abuse did not understand the true nature of a dark triad or a narcissist. You know, and that’s the other thing that bothers me. It’s like, well, I don’t think that necessarily we should be doing a full course of psychology in high school. I think it would be a really good idea to talk about these things. There should be a psychology class in high school. There really should be some sort of psychology, at least going through the diagnoses and kind of hitting on what they are, what their traits are and what it looks like and this that and the other thing, and then people can decide from there whether they want to go into psychology or not. Plus, the fact that would give them a really good base to know what to watch out for. So, um, I’m sorry, I forgot your question. Um, did he eventually believe the lies? No, I think I talked about that.

Okay. Oh, well, they abandoned lark, the narc. If they are educated, they will. If so, what happens to the narc when everyone’s gone? And what does the narc try to… wait? What does what did the narc try to achieve with this? So, narcissists cannot ever conceive of losing. It’s not in their wheelhouse. They can’t realize. So, a good stratatitian will look at all angles, okay? And they’ll be like, you know, oh, this is a Kobayashi Maru. I’m not going to I’m not going to win. There’s no way to win this. Right. Kobayashi Maru was in Star Trek. Go look it up. Anyway. Um, you know, in a healthy person would be like, Okay, it’s a no-win situation. All right, well, then I will do what I can to mitigate, I will do what I can to protect, I will do what I can. Do you see where I’m going with that. Whereas a narcissist never considers any situation a Kobayashi Maru. It’s always like, I’m going to win at all costs, and usually at all cost means the kids, the ex, the friends, the family, the whatever, they don’t care, you’ve got to understand when you’re dealing with a narcissistic abuser, they truly zero clucks given, you know what I’m saying? scorched earth policy, they would rather absolutely burn everything to the ground and be left there starving than to admit they were wrong. Or admit that they were lying or whatever, so okay.

Okay, what happens to the narc when everyone is gone? Okay, so what that is, is a collapsed narcissist, a collapsed narcissist. So, a collapsed narcissist is one who’s lost. And it can, it depends, it really truly depends on how crazy they are and how psychopathic they are. Because usually what will happen is if everyone abandons them, and they get hit with, like, say, a restraining order, it’ll devastate them, because at least temporarily, because they realize that they’ve lost, you know, they realize that they don’t have their cheering section anymore. They don’t have, and the law is not on their side. And this that and the other thing, if they are really truly crazy, though, if they’re really more psychopathic than they are narcissistic, they can be dangerous, they absolutely can be dangerous. So, And either way, you can never let your guard down. So generally, generally, one of two things will happen if they’re truly dangerous, they’ll intensify the harassment, and they’ll intensify the crazy, which means you need to be careful, get a restraining order, you know, make sure that you have friends and family who are checking on you that kind of thing. Or they will be a collapsed narcissist. And they will fall into a deep depression for at least a little while. Not very long, but long enough so that you get some breathing room. And they’re less likely to try it again if they realize that it’s going to not benefit them. So, remember narcissists, just not dark triads, but just straight-out narcissists. it’s all about the win for them. And if it doesn’t give them what they want. They generally don’t try it again. If they’re psychopathic, like my Stalker was, they tried it again. Until they realized, oh, shoot, the same thing is going to happen. So, you know what I’m saying? So, you just got to be careful either way.

So, what happens to the narc when everybody is gone? And what did the narc try to achieve with this? I’m not sure I understand that last part of the question. Basically, what narcs want to achieve is they want everybody on their side, like literally everybody. And when they’re found out when people start, you know, when blinders come off, and they’re like, oh, oh, okay, you know, that wasn’t their goal. Their goal was to manipulate and control, so if you could clarify that last part of the question, I would really appreciate it. Or you can IM me after the show. Okay.

I am part of a smear campaign started by my mom. I tell my relatives about how hurtful it is. They told me they love My mom, that she is bored and lonely. Oh, good God, no. So, here’s the deal. Stop telling your relatives. It’s not going to do any good. It’s not going to do any good, especially when you get the response like that. They’re apologists. I’m sick of apologists. I’m sorry. I’ll tell you what, if somebody, anybody, had listened, I wouldn’t have gone through as much as I went through with my dad. They all made excuses for him. Oh, you know, he’s stressed out. Oh, you know, he’s older. Oh, he’s from a different generation. Oh, you know, baba, baba, baba. And I’m like, Are you kidding me? You know, Oh, you got to love your father. Oh, you’ve got to love your no, you don’t you absolutely do not its… love does not hurt. Love is not hurtful if it hurts. It ain’t love, period. So um, okay, I can’t get them to see my pain. They’re not going to. Why do relatives defend the person starting the smear campaign? Because they’re either narcissists themselves or they do not understand the true nature of narcissistic abuse. And anyone who is siding with an abuser needs to be X out of your life. Absolutely. 110% you do not owe your abuser or the relatives anything. In fact, the more you try to explain, the crazier you’re going to look. So, get with a good therapist. Get into trauma therapy, work the workbooks Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor.  Work on those and stop trying to explain things to your relatives you’re looking for support from a dry well. Oftentimes family members do not want to take a look at it. Because then they have to look at their behavior. And they have to look at the family system. And they don’t want to admit that the family is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And that was a large part of what was going on with my family is that when I was you know, telling my mom what my dad was doing, you know, he was molesting me. She was like making excuses and you know, all of this stuff, and I’m just like, What the frick is going on here? Well, her family was screwed up. Her mom was a narcissist. She had been molested. So, I mean, it explains it, does not excuse it. And it’s probably because the family members have got something in their particular situation that they don’t want to deal with. So, go stop going to a well, that’s dry. That’s why I got into therapy in the first place. So, I had somebody that I could talk to Ruth Hornaday and Chico was awesome. She’s probably not even around anymore. But, you know, it was like somebody who believed me and somebody who would listen and validate, you know, the relatives, they’ve got an agenda. They’ve got an agenda, anybody defending an abuser? You know, if somebody comes up and says, Hey, my abuser is doing XY and Z, and they go, Oh, they’re just bored. Oh, they’re just lonely. Oh, it’s okay. Ah, they’re as bad as the abuser Oh, get away, get away, get away, get away, get away, stop going to a well, that’s dry. It’s not only dry but also poisoned and salted. Stop going to a well; that’s not going to give you the water you need. The water you need is unconditional support. Unconditional Love. Probably a trauma therapist, or a support group would probably be the way to go. So, there is that.

Is a narcissistic, the wait is a narcissist smear campaign and a boarder smear campaign the same or different? Because both do it depending on how severe the BPD Yeah, no, they’re very similar. So, remember, you’ve got to remember borderline personality disorder is called borderline because it borders on psychotic thinking.

Kris Godinez  53:54

And it has traits of all the major personality disorders and borders on all the personality disorders. And one of those personality disorders is narcissism. So yeah, the smear campaign from them is very similar. It’s very revenge motivated. the more severe the BPD, the more revenge tit for tat tallionic. The thinking is, so it is very, very, very similar. So yeah, absolutely. And basically, you deal with it the same way you do not engage. You give them nothing. You take good care of yourself; you just rise above, and you cut out anybody who’s a mutual friend because they’re going to just be a flying monkey. So anyway, there is that.

All right, my love’s so that is it for today. I hope that was helpful. Next week, we are going to be talking about Dependent Personality Disorder. What is dependent personality disorder that happens to a lot of people with codependency, so we’re going to talk about that, and you know how to start working on that and all that sort of good stuff. So, you guys go have a great week, take good care of yourselves Drink plenty of water. It’s going to get really hot here in Phoenix. So, I will talk to you next week. Have a great week, guys talk to you later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 06-18-2023 Why Smear? appeared first on Kris Godinez.

When we have been unjustly accused of doing things we didn’t do, the desire to clear the air is strong. Now, if you were dealing with healthy people, clearing the air would be the right thing to do. You aren’t dealing with healthy people. Narcissists, Dark Triads, and the like LOVE to accuse the target of abuse of all sorts of things that THEY are themselves doing and then argue with or ignore the target of abuse when they try to defend themselves. It is a game where the rules are constantly changing and one in which you will never win!

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Wow. Hi, everybody. Oh, my goodness. Hello from Spain. Oh, my goodness. Good to see you guys. So today, here’s the current event today is Mother’s Day. So, for those of you who had good moms, great, have a great day, that are good moms have a great day. If you have mothers that were abusive, neglectful, harmful, hurtful, etc. And you are no contact with them stay, no contact, do not let a Hallmark holiday make you get back in touch with somebody who’s abusive. So, and this goes for Father’s Day, too, coming up in June.

So, I this just want to remind people it’s like if you’re no contact with your mom, and you’re starting to feel guilty about her and any sort of weird stuff, and I talked about guilt on Wednesday. So, if you guys are suffering from guilt, that’s being given to you, shame that’s being given to you by an abuser, go check out the video I did on Wednesday. But if you’re having that, oh my gosh, it’s Mother’s Day, I should contact them even though they were abusive or even though they were neglectful. Here’s the question you ask yourself. If I were not related to this bozo, would I have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly, have nothing to do with them stay no contact for your own comfort and your own safety. If you reconnect with an abusive parent, I can guarantee you it’s the inner child trying to do that is the inner child going, but in fact, we’re going to be talking a lot about the inner child today wanting something different. And if you’re going to a well that is dry, and it’s salted, and it’s poisoned, so don’t go to that. Well. Don’t do it. Don’t do it; it’s not going to work out well. So that is what I have to say about Mother’s Day. If you have a good mom, great. If you don’t, for the love of God and all its holy, do not contact them if you are no contact because it’s just not going to end well. So oh, there is has that is the current event for today.

So, we flew in last night from Honolulu. So, I’m very, very tired. So, I’m sorry, I may ramble a little bit today because I’ve got very little sleep. So anyway, okay. All right. So, today’s topic is oversharing. Anything you say can and absolutely will be used against you. Absolutely. 110% No, no even question about that. So, what can we do about oversharing? And why do we do it? So, there’s the thing that’s the question. So, here’s what’s going on. It’s our limbic system. Yay, limbic system. It’s our limbic system. So basically, what ends up happening is it’s our amygdala. So, our amygdala is our fight-flight, freeze or faun, right? The amygdala can’t tell the difference between past, present, future emotional, non-emotional, whatever. So, when we get triggered, in some way, shape, or form, an abuser comes at us, whether it’s a parent, or romantic partner, or an official, or anybody who’s abusive anybody. And our limbic system gets triggered, and we’re suddenly thrown into this emotional dysregulation. And we are operating from the level of a two-year-old, three-year-old, five-year-old, 10-year-old, whatever the inner child was at the time that we were unjustly accused. This is why it is so important to go back through and do inner child work. Hugely important to reraise that inner child so that when we get triggered, we’re able to recognize it and go, Oh, I feel like I’m about 10. Holy cow, I need to take a step back and take a deep breath and then respond as opposed to thrown into a tizzy. The limbic system is going crazy. Your amygdala is going Danger, danger, danger. Cortisol is flooding the body, and you’re starting to spew in an effort to knock get in trouble. That’s basically what’s happening. So, the limbic system is, is going crazy. And it’s reacting. It’s reacting. You don’t want to react; you want to act. So, getting yourself back to emotional regulation. And back to recognizing, oh my gosh, I’m oversharing. So, in the most common times that this happens is when the abuser is coming at us, right? They’re unjustly accusing us of something, who knows what, usually in a divorce case, usually in a custody case.

So basically, what it is, is you want to start re-raising your inner children. So that means doing the work. That means doing the mirror work addressing that inner child, hello inner child, I see you, I hear you, it’s okay. You don’t have to react; you can let the adult me deal with stuff. Little you gets to go play; I get to deal with this stuff. You know, doing the mirror work reinforcing that doing the guided imagery working Catherine Taylor’s Inner Child Workbook or Lucia Cappacchione Inner Child Workbook, doing guided imagery, taking yourself back through your childhood, standing behind your child, hands on to your child’s shoulders, and guiding them through all those nasty times that you’ve had to deal with. So that you’re the protector, you’re taking care of them, you’ve got them covered. So that’s really important.

Because otherwise, what ends up happening is somebody comes out as oh my gosh, we start people pleasing. We start people pleasing. And one of the ways we people pleased as a child was to try to explain, right, well, why did you do this? Or why are you doing that? And you did this? And you did that? No, I didn’t. But and that’s what gets us into trouble. Because then we start saying anything and everything, you know, trying to figure out what’s going to be the magic combination that’s going to make them stop. But here’s the deal. You’ve got to understand. abusers are dedicated to misunderstanding you let me say that again. abusers are dedicated to misunderstanding you. Even they know. They know the truth. They do. They don’t care. They don’t care. They will lie, lie, lie. Remember, we’ve talked about this and even though you’re speaking the truth, and you’re saying that you didn’t do this, or you know, that’s not fair or whatever, they don’t care. They literally do not care. You’ve got to understand you’re dealing with somebody who has no empathy, none. And they’re sadistic, and you are their chosen punching bag. So, nothing you say is going to make a difference. You would have a better and deeper conversation with my backdrop than you would with an abuser. They are dedicated to misunderstanding you. So, what can we do about this? So first of all, there’s a couple of books which of course, in my three hours of sleep I didn’t put out, um, one of them is the in the Divorce Guide; Laurie Hellas wrote a book on divorce. Brain gone; I’ll think of it. Anyway, that’s one of them. So, the book by Laurie Hellas just look up Lori Hellis it’ll pop up. Insider’s Guide to Divorce, I think is what it’s called. And it’s great because she goes through the whole justice system, so you understand what the courts are looking for. The other one is Splitting by Bill Eddy and Randy Krieger because you got to understand this is intentional on the part of the abuser, they poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke and in an effort to either get you to do reactionary you know, screaming at them because you’re trying to make them stop. So, then they can film it and say, Oh, you’re the abuser, which they love to do. Listen to me now; believe me later, guys.

Kris Godinez  09:13

There is no depth, there is no end to their depravity, there is no low that they won’t go to, they’ll do anything. I had one recently that, in a medical emergency, when alone in the hospital room with the child, started screaming don’t hurt me. Don’t touch me. You’re hitting me blah, blah, blah. And of course, the other parent was across the room. Thank God the other parent had their phone on. So, but, and then this person tried to bring that bring that to the courts, and the courts threw it out, but it’s just their depravity is amazing. It just don’t put it past them. I have so many times had clients go Oh, no, they would never do that. Yeah, they would. If it would, if it will push their agenda, if it gets you in trouble with the law. If it will get you in trouble with the courts. They absolutely will. You cannot trust them as well. er’s you can spit seriously; you can trust them just about as far as you could spend a dead rat out of your mouth. That’s about as far as you can do it because you can’t trust them. They will do the most heinous things to try to get you in trouble. And to get you to over explain and to get you to say things that are going to be used against you in a court of law.

So, here’s the deal, every single time you have an interaction with an ex or with anybody that is abusive, you want to treat it as if it’s going to show up in court records. Seriously. So, there were some really good articles that I pulled up about oversharing. And how to stop because that seems to be the big problem. Because what I see happening is tit for tat, tit for tat, tit for tat, and then shooting back and thinking that somehow, it’s going to make a difference. And what’s going on is, is that inner child is the one that’s going but and trying to get them to hear you. They’re dedicated to not hearing you listen to me, now, believe me later, they’re never going to hear you. They’re never going to get that you’re a good person. Let me just, let me just be clear here. They’re never going to get it. Never, never. I mean, it’s like Jesus Christ himself could come down and say, Look, this person is a good person, and they would argue with them, no lie. So okay, so here’s the deal. You’ve got to stop arguing with them, you’ve got to stop playing their game, their game is to get you hooked into that inner child, so that you start oversharing, you’ve got to stop because there’ll be selective about what they share with the courts, especially if you’re not using our family wizard. There’ll be selective about, you know, what they videotape, etc., etc., etc. So don’t put yourself in those positions. So okay. So, here’s the one I wanted to show you. It’s called How to Set Boundaries and an Age of Oversharing. And this is on Psychology Today.

So, for regular, non-disordered family, spouses, friends, they suggest putting a columns so in the past, I’ve always told you right out your list of deal breakers, right? So those are your boundaries, deal breakers are your boundaries that you will not allow anyone else to cross boundaries are your boundaries. So, who you wouldn’t be comfortable sharing what with? So, in this one, it’s called How to Set Boundaries in an Age of Oversharing. It’s on Psychology Today. It’s by Andrea Brandt, PhD. And what she suggests doing is writing it out. So, in columns, who are you willing to share what with so the first column is significant other now that would be provided you had a sane, significant other. We’re going to go back through it. If it’s not a sane, significant other. Second one would be family. Now that would be provided if they were saying family, third friends, fourth, strangers or acquaintances, okay. Then you write down subjects that you’re uncomfortable discussing with these four categories. So now, here’s the deal, if you’re divorcing, a disordered narcissist, psychopath, dark triad, etc. There is going to be very little, you’re going to be willing to discuss with them so basically, if you have children with one of these Jack wagons, the only thing you’re going to discuss is need to know information about the child. That’s it. That is it. You are not going to respond to anything else. Even if they sit there and poke, poke, poke if they accuse you of XY and Z. No response Listen to me now, believe me later. No response is a response. Or you can simply say I’m not addressing that period. And then don’t address it and then let them go off because if you’re doing our family wizard, it’s going to show how crazy they are. So um, there is that so you stick to only things that are facts and figures, no emotion, no emotion, they want to get you riled up so that you’ll start so that they can go to the court and go look see how crazy they are. And this goes for male abusers, this goes for female abusers doesn’t matter. I’ve seen both of them do it. So, when you are doing any sort of communication, basically, you’re not discussing anything that isn’t relevant to either the divorce or the custody, and that is the biggest mistake we make.

Now let’s move on to toxic family. There’s going to be very little that you’re going to discuss with them to literally it if you choose to stay in contact with them. It needs to be surface stuff, only. Nothing that is serious. Nothing that is important to you why because they will sabotage it. guarantee it 110% and take it to the bank and earn interest on it. So, if you have got toxic family and you share something that’s important to you, they’re going to put it down, they’re going to tell you, you can’t do it, they’re going to make fun of you for wanting to do it, they’re going to do everything they can to keep you from doing it. So again, know your audience. And the key is getting that inner child to understand that toxic abuser, that toxic family is never going to be the well filled with healthy water that they need. Does that make sense? So, you’ve got to really work with that inner child to know that you cannot go to either one of those wells. Those wells are dry and salted and poisoned. Don’t go to them. You’re not going to get the approval, the validation, the encouragement, the support, the love that you deserve, not from those two idiots. You’re just not because they’re disordered and they’re evil. And they’re just dedicated to being sadistic and nasty and mean. And you’re their favorite punching bag, and how dare their favorite punching bag, go do something awesome. So that’s why you don’t go to your family and share things.

So, for example, when I went back and got my master’s degree, I didn’t tell anybody. I told my sister, and that was it. My oldest sister, that was it. That’s the only person I told. And then I waited until graduation. And then I told my mom, and then she came out for graduation. Because I did not want the naysaying. I didn’t want the nastiness I didn’t want you can’t do it. I didn’t want that. So, I just want to end it didn’t tell anybody except somebody who I knew was going to be supportive. And this is what you have to have really seriously a come to Jesus’ meeting with your inner child who really truly is supportive in your life. And the way you tell that is previous behavior. Seriously, so like my oldest sister, consistent, always supportive, always good advice, always helping me, always amazing. So, you know, I knew I could trust her. Everybody else in the family, not so much. So, you know what I’m saying. So, you really have to have a serious chat with that inner child and be like, Look, little one, this person, this person, and this person are not safe to talk to this person safe to talk to those people not safe to talk to.

So now we’re going to move into the friend category. So, are these people truly supportive? So, in this age of oversharing, like social media, oh, dear Lord, some of the things I’ve read on social media, I’m like, why are you telling everybody this? Nobody needs to know this, especially your ex-Hello. Um, but it’s like with friends. You know, not every friend is really a friend. Some of them are acquaintances, and we have to be okay with that. And I noticed the inner child has a really hard time with that, wants everybody to be the friend. Everybody’s my friend. Well, no, no, darlin, not everybody is your friend. Sometimes they pretend to be friends, and they’ve got a knife hidden behind their backs, just waiting to use it on you. So, when we come out of an abusive relationship, whether that is a romantic relationship or a familial relationship, our pickers are not really good. And so, the people that we’ve surrounded ourselves with, tend to mimic our family of origin.

So, you want to be very careful about your friends. They had better be true friends. In other words, not running back to the abuser, not flying monkeys. Not in competition with you. Not a covert narcissist, not a narcissist, not a psychopath. Are they really your friends? And again, behavior speaks louder than words. What is the behavior? Are they there for you when the chips are down? You know, are they there for you when you need somebody, you know, or are they busy? And oh, I can’t be bothered with this or blah, blah, blah. Does that make sense? So, this is how you kind of start separating things out who can you start trusting? Now, again, this all boils down to self-esteem. You have got to work on your self-esteem, trusting your own gut because that is where our picker lives is in our gut instinct. Okay? When we’ve been abused, either romantically or a family of origin or whatever, they tell us. Oh, no, your guts wrong. Oh, no, you don’t see that. Oh, no, this isn’t really happening gaslighting. Hello. And so, we then stop acknowledging we see the pink elephant taking a crap in the corner of the living room, but we still stop acknowledging it. Pretty soon, we don’t see it because we’ve been trained not to. So, you’ve got to allow yourself to start trusting your gut again. Okay, Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi Disease to Please Harriet Breaker. The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor, start doing guided imagery with your inner children. Allow them to acknowledge that they see the pink elephant taking a crap in the corner of the family living room. Do you see where I’m going with that? So that is what’s important is really working on listening to your gut trusting that gut instinct. If something feels off, it probably is. And you may be a little paranoid in the beginning, but I’ll tell you what, I’d rather have you be a little paranoid than a little too naive. Does that make sense? So, there is now. I see we’ve got some questions, I will get to them in about 10 minutes. Hang on.

So okay, setting boundaries. So, the other thing you have to do, too, is when you are on the Internet, okay. And this is where I see a lot of people making a mistake when they’re in a custody battle or a divorce. They don’t walk their stuff down; you have got to lock your stuff down. Why? Well, it’s not just the abuser, you have to be concerned about. It’s the flying monkey. Okay, so oversharing gets picked up by the flying monkeys. The flying monkeys run back to the abuser and tell the abuser or screenshot it and show the abuser. So basically, you do not want to say anything on the internet that you do not want to have ended up in court, serious as a heart attack. I know it’s really tempting that when you, you know, are in the middle of a divorce, and you want to show the other person that you’re living a great life… Well, you don’t want to do that. It’s none of their business. Nobody needs to know that it really doesn’t. Because what they’ll do is they’ll go to the court and say, See, they don’t need child support. See, they don’t need that. Look all the money they’re spending on it. It’s BS honestly. Because really, what it boils down to is how much you make not what you do with it. But you know, they’ll do that they’re How do I explain this?

Kris Godinez  21:37

The person who represents themselves in a court of law has a fool for a client. Oftentimes narcissists do that, because they’re so arrogant. They think they can do it on their own. Now, of course, sometimes the abuse targets can’t afford an attorney, and they have to represent themselves. That’s different. But what I’ve seen the abusers do is they will just then file motion after motion after motion after motion after motion after motion after motion after motion, based on things that they saw on the internet or things that were said in our family wizard, or whatever. And it that’s why I’m saying if you don’t want it to end up in court, don’t say it. You know, keep to facts and figures. Do not get drawn into their cesspool, I think that’s the best way to put it, of word salad and accusations and nastiness, because they want you to respond. They want you to react. They want to have something that they can take back to their attorney or to their judge, or whatever they’re doing, you know, or file some sort of frivolous motion. They’re idiots. They do this all the time. And it’s for two reasons. One, they think they’re smarter than everybody else. They don’t understand the law. Two. They want to bankrupt the other person. That’s why you want to say absolutely as little as possible.

So, stopping the oversharing again, you write it out. Who can you share with? Who can you share with if they’re toxic, you cannot share with them. And you’re going to have to remind your inner child now when I was healing from my crazy, toxic family, I had a dream towards the end of me seeing Fabian Smith in Portland, Oregon. Fabian was a godsend, thank God. And one of the dreams I had, I had a dream that all of my family members that were abusive were all forced to sit down; they were gagged. And they were, you know, tied to the chair, and they had to hear me. And in my dream, I told them everything. I was just like. You’re a jerk. You’re this, you’re that, you did that, you know, and it was great to get it off my chest. When I woke up from that dream. I was like, wow, that is my subconscious talking. Right? All the things I wanted to say, but I couldn’t. And I recognized I could never say it to them in person because they as they wouldn’t get it. And B they deny it and C they flip it around and make it all my fault. But it’s kind of like that’s kind of what you have to do with your inner child allow them the chance to speak it out to the abusers. So, you can either do a guided imagery with your inner children or let them say everything they wanted to say. And then remind them, Hey, little one, we can’t do that with whoever the abuser is. But we can certainly do it in guided imagery. And why this works is because our limbic system or amygdala cannot tell the difference between imagining it and doing it. That’s why if you sit and you think about being in a bank robbery, you’re standing in line, suddenly bank robbers come in, and they’re there. They got guns, and they’re going to hold the place hostage. Your hurdle start pounding, and you’ll start breathing fast because your amygdala can’t tell the difference between just imagining a bank robbery and actually being in a bank robbery. So, the beautiful thing is, you can start healing you’re inner child by imagining having conversations with all of these people and telling them exactly where to go pound sand, and reminding your inner child, you’re the adult, you get to protect them, it’s your job, you will protect them. They don’t need to do anything except the little kids. That’s it. You will keep them safe. And so, you work on that guided imagery.

So, I strongly suggest seriously strongly suggest, if you’re struggling with oversharing, I strongly suggest you start working on the inner child. That’s what doing it the inner child is the one that is going, but it’s not fair. But you’re not hearing me. They’re never going to hear you. It is always going to be unfair with them always. Which is why you give them nothing. That’s why gray rock is so great. It’s like, no response is a response. And if they have nothing to work with, they have to make stuff up. And eventually, people start figuring out that they’re making stuff out because you’re not responding. There’s no paper trail. There’s no internet trail. There’s no…do you see where I’m going on with that. So, and that’s why I tell people, it’s like stop talking to your spouse on the phone. If you’re in the middle of a high conflict, contentious divorce, high conflict custody issue, if you’re on the phone with them, and it’s not being recorded based on whatever state law you’re in. There, they can say that you said anything. So that’s why I’m saying everything has to be in writing. Get our family wizard insist on it. And if they refuse to use it, hold them in contempt of court. Because obviously, they’re hiding something. Duh. you know, seriously, it’s like they don’t think they don’t think they’re just kind of like, well, I’m just not going to use it. I’m not going to use it. I’ll do it this way. No, no, it’s court-ordered. Its court ordered. So, you want to get splitting and you want to get the book by Lori Hillis the Insider’s Guide. I think it’s the Insider’s Guide to divorce. I can’t think of what the title is. But it’s by Laurie Hellas, great book.

Okay, so how to set boundaries. All right. So then, the other thing to recognize, too, is that we get triggered, and it’s called trauma, dumping, trauma dumping. So, in other words, when you find yourself on a flow, and you’re just literally, and you just keep talking, what you want to do is you want to take a look when, how old were you? When you did that? How old are you feeling in that moment? It is your inner child. That’s a trauma dump. And that is something you want to get with a good trauma therapist and start working on how old were you when you started having to defend yourself. Now, if we were raised by family of origin that was abusive, we were defending ourselves all the damn time. Seriously. It’s like, you know, why are you breathing that way? And we had to explain why we were breathing that way.

So, the thing I want to encourage you to get into the habit of is you don’t owe anybody an explanation. I no shock. You don’t owe anybody. I don’t care who they are an explanation. You don’t, you do not know. Obviously, if you’re in a court of law, and somebody asks you something, yeah, you’re going to have to explain. But you really, really, really want to take a look at who’s asking and why. What’s their agenda? What’s their motivation? What are they looking for? If somebody’s, you know, digging, then they’re obviously trying to find things against you.

So, you really want to be careful with who you share things with. And on the Internet. If you’re going through a divorce, lock it down, get rid of the flying monkeys. Well, how come I can’t see your stuff anymore? Because I’m going through a divorce. That’s all you need to say. Well, but I’m not going to share. I understand. And that’s all you need to say. You don’t need to appease them. You do not need to appease them, you seriously do not need to appease them. So, alright, so setting boundaries.

All right, and then you are going to talk to people about your boundaries. If your father keeps prying into your romantic relationships or your financial situation or anything else. You simply say that is not up for discussion. How about them Dodgers, and if they keep doing it, you leave healthy normal, and we say this again, healthy, normal people. healthy normal people catch clues, and they respect the word no. if somebody’s uncomfortable discussing something, all a healthy normal person needs to hear is change of subject. That’s off-topic, okay. And then you don’t revisit it. People who have no boundaries will continue to merge over the boundaries. So, if after you’ve said this is not up for discussion, how about them Dodgers? And they do something like, ooh really touchy or weak? You get up, and you leave. You get up, and you leave! Because that is a boundary that they are obviously They not respecting. So that is super important. Okay, um, make changes on social media. You’ve got to change who you have on there. Do not let it be public Do not let your ex or any of his flying or her flying monkeys get on there. It’s dangerous. Yeah, especially if you’re in the middle of the divorce and the custody battle, you absolutely do not want to have anybody on there that has access to your personal stuff. Because you know, it’s going to go right back to them

Now switching gears a bit. During a divorce. What I see abusers do is they overshare to their kids, okay? They tell the kids way the hell too much.

Kris Godinez  30:47

So, if you are the spouse, of a person who’s oversharing, and the kid comes to you, and usually it’s about money, that’s or how horrible the other person is, you know, oh, I’m broke because of your dad, I’m broke because of your mom, I’m broke, you know, or, you know, they’re awful. They’re horrible. They had an affair, whatever. Whatever the kid comes to you with. You just say Honey, that’s not for you to worry about. Daddy or Mommy is upset and they’re saying things that are not true. And you leave it at that because that is the truth. You don’t go into anything else you don’t over-explain. And you be age specific. Remember, little ones like zero to six do not have the cognitive ability to cope with the emotional fallout of a divorce. So, for example, in this article, let me see who did this one. Mom and Dad, Mom, and Dad and TMI. Are you an oversharer? by Peggy Drexler, PhD, children are keeping terrible secrets. Oh, children are keeping are terrible at keeping secrets. Yes. So, one of the examples in here was that one of the kids would hear the parents say, Well, I’m never going to marry again and done it at it. And the kid was young, six, and they couldn’t quite figure out why. And so somehow being married became very awful in their mind, because the parent kept saying how horrible it was. Well, just because the parent had a horrible marriage doesn’t mean the kid’s going to have a horrible marriage. My mom used to do that all the time. My mom was like, oh, you know, you should never get married. It’s horrible. It’s awful. It’s terrible. It’s on. And I have been married for almost 30 years. And we love each other. And we had a lot of fun together, obviously. So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s disordered thinking to do that. So, if you hear the child saying something about never marrying again, you say, You know what, that’s mommy or daddy’s experience that’s not yours, you get to have a great marriage if you won’t want. Leave it at that. So, you’ve got to be very careful what you say and how much you say to kids about the divorce. So, when a kid asks, Why are you getting divorce, keep it simple. You know, mommy and daddy just grew apart, we cannot agree on anything we were not meant to be. That’s it. That’s all you need to say. You do not need to go into depth, you do not depend on how old they are. Now, if they’re teenagers, they’re probably quite aware of what’s going on in the in the marriage, they’re not stupid. Kids know, when something’s off, I knew when something was off when I was a little kid, you know, you could probably say like, well, you know, Daddy’s got an anger issue, or Mommy’s got an anger issue. And I just don’t want to be around that, you know, which is the truth.

So, and then as they get older, age appropriate, you give them more information, but you don’t overload them, because their little brains aren’t able to cope with that, they’re not able to process that through anyway. So that was Mom and Dad and TMI, and that was on Psychology Today.

Okay, attachment in the search for the inner child, if the intensity of your emotions and reactions are out of sync or way stronger than what the situation calls for, you may need to do some inner child work. That’s not you may need to, you do need to because that’s what’s who’s running the show. So here are the things that we need to start telling ourselves, I can feel happiness and purpose simultaneously with deep sorrow. And why do I say that? So, we stop running from feeling sad. And that is something that our inner child does is that a lot of times, especially when I work with clients that had not only abuse but a substance issue. I don’t want to feel. I don’t want to feel. I don’t want to feel that I don’t want to feel. I don’t want to I don’t want to know what it needs, only be happy, only happy. Well, if life were only happy. I don’t think we’d be here on planet Earth.

So, all of the emotions are good guys. All of the emotions are good. They may not be comfortable, but they’re good. They’re all okay. It’s what we do with them that makes them helpful or hurtful. So, it’s okay to feel joy and sadness. You can. We have a depth and a breadth to us. We can feel both simultaneously. In fact, Buddha speaks about, you know, enlightenment is being able to acknowledge all of your emotions and yet still feel that deep sense kind of sadness or that deep sorrow. So, it’s kind of acknowledging all things kind of thing. And allowing, allowing. I can be the author of my life, as opposed to living out a sad, lonely story assigned to me in childhood. So, a lot of disordered parents, I don’t know if you guys ever saw the movie Like Water for Chocolate. It’s an old one, really good. So, in that movie, the mom it basically generational trauma is what it’s about. The youngest and every family was assigned a role to take care of the mom. And she never was supposed to have a life. Never supposed to get married, never supposed to love, never supposed to whatever. And it was all about her breaking out. And of course, at a tragic ending, you know, Academy Award winner. Anyway, the point being is Like Water for Chocolate, good movie, bring Kleenex. So, it’s assignment. And my mom used to tell me this all the time. She’s like, Oh, you’re a loner. You’re a loner. And I’m like, like hell I am. I’m social, like nobody’s business, your cruise director, people, you know what I’m saying? And she kept telling me, You’re a loner, you’re a loner, you’re a loner, and it didn’t know. I’m not I like people. I do. She did’nt. But she also had a lot of abuse. And I understand why she did that.

But again, parents need to be careful that they’re not shoving their issues onto the kids. My mom had issues with people because she was abused when she married an abuser. Two of them actually, um, you know, and so you don’t want to project onto your children your own issues. Does that make sense? So just because your family has said it will and again with me, you know, my dad told me I was the cute one, not the smart one. So, I was kind of like, funny. I’m the only one that owns my own business. Oh, thank you very much. Um, you know, it’s like, just because they have predicted your doom, you’ve got to understand they’re talking about themselves. They are talking about it when somebody predicts your doom. When somebody say you’re a loner, or you’re the cute one, not this smart one, well, they’re talking about themselves. They’re talking about themselves. They’re not talking about you. They don’t even know who the hell you are. They don’t know who the hell they are. Let alone you, you know what I’m saying. So, you’ve got to be able to as an adult, talk to that inner child and go hey, little one. When mom and dad said this, they were talking about themselves, they were not talking about you, you can be the author of your own destiny. You are you are the captain of this ship. You are El Capitan; you can do whatever you want. I just suddenly got a Q when I said that. You can do whatever you want. You can decide where you’re going and who you’re with and what you’re up to. You don’t you’re not doomed to follow their weirdness. Okay. Okay, and I swear I’m going to get to questions in just a second. My emotions were experiences that I had control over, not some unalterable truth. My emotions were experiences that I had control over not some unalterable truth. Now, here’s the thing. Feelings are not facts. And we often confuse that. So, it’s okay to have feelings, but they’re not necessarily facts.

So again, inner child work, work with that child. It’s okay to have feelings. It doesn’t mean it’s unalterable. Just because you’re sad about this does not mean you’re going to be sad forever means you’re having a moment of sadness in time. Things change, hairstyles change, weather changes. So, do emotions, go with it. So that’s the important thing. So, this is called this article is Attachment in the Search for the Inner Child by Hal Shorey, PhD on Psychology Today. Okay, let’s get to the questions. All right.

Do narcissists themselves overshare only when they are trying to establish the illusion of intimacy. So let me be clear about this. So, they will share things in an effort to get you to open up, but it’s different than oversharing that we do. So oversharing that we do is kind of like a stream-of-consciousness panicked. You know, this that the other thing you know, don’t know how you know, and just this frantic kind of oversharing talking, talking, talking, and trying to figure out what they want, you know, this that the other thing they overshare to get us to open up in the love bombing phase especially so they’ll, they’ll offer a nugget of personal information, hoping that you’re going to turn around and do that. Now the other way that they overshare is they’re so arrogant. They will basically tell you what they are going to do. So, you know, they will say things like, you know, Oh, you shouldn’t love me, I’ll leave you. They weren’t lying.

Kris Godinez  40:09

So, and we don’t believe them, of course, because, you know, we’re thinking that they’re normal people and they are not. And so, you know, they say things like that or, you know, I’ll only hurt you, you know, that kind of thing, and we don’t believe them. And we need to believe that when somebody I very much pay attention to what people say, and when somebody says, Oh, well, I may be a narcissist, you know, maybe in their buddy, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, No, you’re, you’re helping them with that. Yeah. So, you know, it’s, listen, you’ve got to listen, you got to listen to what they say. And you’ve got to believe them. Because they, they do slip they do. And it’s almost like this game of, are they going to catch me? And I think it’s a little bit of a no. It’s not a little bit. It’s a lot of bit of arrogance. You know, it’s like, if I tell them the truth with this, are they going to believe me, you know, and nine times out of 10, we don’t because we’ve been groomed by family origin, not to, and we’ve been groomed by society, you know, oh, well, you know, they’re just self-deprecating. You know, there’s just, you know, they’re, they know, they couldn’t be that bad. No, you’ve got to be like, that’s a red flag. So yeah, there’s now. Hold on, let me get back to the rest of that question. I experienced narcissists sharing so many things that could cause them trouble. Yeah, they do. Because they don’t think they’re going to get caught. It’s like they want to get caught. Yep. And to show off what they’ve done. 110%. So, again, one of my favorite shows on I think its ID is Signs of a Psychopath. And almost all of them brag. That’s how they get caught is that they slipped to somebody bragging about the murder that they committed, or the crime that they committed, or whatever. And they truly feel it’s that antisocial thing. They feel they’re above the law, that they’re never going to get caught that nobody’s going to turn them in. They’ve got this weird magic thinking, but it’s different than the magic thinking that other people have their magic thinking is along the lines of, I’m invincible. I’m never going to get caught. I’m above the law. I’m smarter than everybody else, you know, a hubris like nobody’s business. Yeah, they do that. And it’s kind of a. It’s kind of a How long can I get away with it? Kind of thing? It really is. Yeah. And I do think they want to get caught. I do, I think, or they want to see how long they can go without getting caught. You know what I’m saying? So, how many people they can pull the wool over? Yeah, absolutely. All right.

Hi, Kris, about to go on a church weekend retreat. I like to go into deep conversations, but I am working on the oversharing. So, I just do surface-level convos kind of boring to me. Well, here’s the deal. Again, if you don’t know these people, would you go to a total stranger and start baring your soul? You shouldn’t. Because you don’t know if that total stranger is a covert narcissist, an antisocial A, you don’t know who they are. So, you want to stick to things that where you get to kind of know each other. And you know, you can talk about life, the universe, and basically everything. But be careful of what you share personally until you feel out whether or not they’re safe. And that takes time. That’s not going to happen over a weekend retreat. It’s going to be more of a you know, let’s see if I like them. Let’s see if we have a lot in common. You know, and you can talk about, you know, things, hobbies. What do you guys have in common? What do you say you’re going to… so religion obviously is important. Talk about that, you know, talk about what do you like to do for hobbies? What do you like to do for fun? Where do you like to travel? I love talking about that. It’s like then I get new places to go to, I’m like, Oh, you liked this loser? Oh, let’s go try that. So, you know, it’s like in. Never underestimate the power of chit-chat. Chit Chat can tell you who a person is. Don’t consider it boring. You know, chitchat is important. Chit Chat is kind of like getting to know the person what is their basic attitude? What is there, you know outlook on life? Are they, you know, pretty much go with the flow? Are they always trying to control things, or, you know, how a person responds to chit-chat is really important. Are they always having to be the center of attention? Are they always turning the conversation back to them? Those are all red flags and things to look out for so chitchat is important. So don’t go diving too deep until you know who they are and what their agenda is. So that’s my recommendation for that. And don’t allow your brain to tell you that it’s boring. It’s no conversation is boring. I mean, it tells me volumes about people. I mean, it’s so interesting to sit in an airport and listen to the conversations going around. And you can know a lot about people just by hearing the conversations, you know. So, anyway, alright, um alright.

My ex-emails me pretending that it is about our kids but then launches into how horrible I am. What do I do? You ignore it? You absolutely ignore it; you know if there’s something so here’s the thing. Suzanna Quintana, I love her. She is a life coach. And she helps people figure out how to whittle down the emails. So, if you’re interested in getting together with Suzanna Quintana, Suzannaquintana.com, she helps people read the emails, find that one line that’s about kids, respond to that, and ignore the rest, you are seriously going to have to become a Zen master. By the time you are done with this, you’re going to be a doctorate in psychology, and you’re going to be a Zen master.

So, no matter what nastiness is thrown at you, yes, they will say oh, it’s about the kid. And then it’ll be a novel. It’s like they all do the same thing. I swear to God, it’s like there’s a friggin handbook out there for how to be a jerk. How to be a narcissistic jerk and three easy steps. So yeah, they all do the same thing. They all you know, say it’s about the kid. And then it’s a diatribe about how horrible you are and all your wrongs, all this and all that. What you’re going to have to do skim through it, look at it like an attorney. And you’re also going to have your law degree. Look at it like an attorney what needs to be responded to? Well, none of this this is all hearsay. None of that that’s all just accusations that I don’t need to respond to you. Oh, look, buried in the middle one line about the kid that is the one line you respond to the rest of it. What you can do is you can write it out and burn it do not respond, do not respond, do not respond, do not respond. Do not respond. Listen to me. Now, believe me later. You do not want this going into a court of law. But what you do want is their diatribe. Do you see where I’m going with that? You want their crazy in there. You don’t want your crazy in there. Does that make sense? Because they make us crazy? They do? They do? Absolutely. And that inner child wants to respond to just be like, You’re wrong. You’re wrong, you’re wrong. Well, they know they’re wrong. And they’re hoping that that inner child is going to respond. Do not respond. Do not do not. I know you want to respond so what you can do is on a separate piece of paper, so you’re not tempted to send it. Write them a go pound sand letter, dear X. You’re a jackass. You’re wrong. None of this is true.

Kris Godinez  47:38

Bleep the bleep at a bleeping bleep you bleeping bleep Do you see where I’m going without? At the very end, take your power back, you know, Mother clucker, I’m not going to respond to you. I’m just going to let you sit there and stew wondering if I’m going to respond because I’m not going to y’all are going to have to wait till doomsday. You see where I’m going with that? Take your power back. There is power in not responding. We think there’s not it’s so weird. In our in our society. It’s kind of like, Oh, but I have to fight back. Oh contraire. They’re sitting there stewing because you’re not responding. So, the best way to piss them right the bleep off. Don’t respond. narcissist. You got to understand guys, narcissists are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, like technical term, they would rather have a negative response to something they’ve said the no response at all. No response at all drives them crazy. Let it. Because then their nastiness is going to ramp up. And if you’ve got our family wizard, it’s going to be clear in our family wizard who the problem is. That’s why you do not want to engage. That’s why you do not want to tit for tat because it doesn’t make a difference there. They are dedicated to misunderstanding you. Let me say that again. You are their punching bag. They are vomiting all of their nastiness onto you. Okay, they’re not going to stop. It doesn’t stop. It doesn’t. When the kid turns 18. It’ll stop until there’s a wedding or a birth or a funeral or some reason that y’all have to get back together again. So just be prepared. This is who they are. They’re showing you who they are. Believe them the first time responding is not going to do any good. It didn’t do any good when you were married to them what the hell makes you think it’s going to do any good now? Don’t respond. No response is the best way to hurt a narcissist seriously because they think their God and they think that they are, you know, deserving. I demand a response. No, you can demand it until the cows come home, mutherclucker. It isn’t going to happen. See where I’m going with that? Don’t give them a response. Write it out and burn it write out whatever you’d like to say to them and burn it. Do not send it.

The other day I had a client, dear God, who sent the letter I told them not to. And they sent it. And of course, it gave the abuser all the ammo they needed to isolate the person from the family. And I was like I told you not to do it. Why did you do it? Well, I didn’t believe you. Okay, how old were you when you didn’t believe me? Because it’s kind of my job. You know, kind of know what I’m talking about, what’s going on. So, we had to work through the whole inner child thing. And the inner child was the one that was like, but, and the inner child really threw a wrench in that relationship by giving the abuser all the ammo. So that’s what you don’t want to do. That’s what they’re going to do anything you say, can and will be used against you. Absolutely. That’s why you say nothing. That’s why you say absolutely nothing because then they got nothing. If you don’t respond, and you’re, you’re responding to whatever the child’s needs are, you know, yes, no, keep it short. Keep it brief, no explanation, just address whatever the issue is yes or no, you know, and if they decide to send another book, great, let ‘em, but you don’t respond to that book unless it has to do with the kid. And you keep it facts and figures only. So that when the, Our Family Wizard goes before the judge, the judge can see you’re responding in an appropriate manner and they are the ones that are being abusive. That’s what you want to do. So, if you feel like you absolutely need to respond, take it out onto a piece of paper, write it out longhand, tell them to go pound sand, tell them whatever. But also, at the very end, take your power back. It’s like you’re going to wait till the cows come home, mutherclucker. I am not responding. You can just sit and stew on that. Have fun. Bye. Bye. Now guess who has the power? Me! Not you!

Kris Godinez  51:48

Me! Not you. That’s what that’s you got to find the humor. You got to find the humor because, remember, narcissists have no sense of humor and take your power back where you can. So that’s really important. Do not respond. Okay.

What does it mean when a man says to you that all men cheat…it says he’s a cheater, so narcissists basically call themselves out. And they will say things like, oh, men cheat, or Everyone lies. Now remember, we talked about that when I talked about the whole, you know if their lips are moving their lying. So basically, what it is, is they cannot conceive. They cannot conceive of people doing things differently than they do. Because in their minds, everyone is exactly like them. And anyone who isn’t exactly like them is the enemy. So, remember that everyone has to be exactly like them. So, because they do something, they say everybody does it. Oh, well, everybody cheats. Everybody lies. No mother clucker. They don’t. And there’s been studies that prove that. So yeah, they’re basically calling their thirst, saying who they are. They are telling you who they are. And they are telling you either what they are doing or what they very will soon be doing. So, I would go get tested, and I would leave. Absolutely. 110%.

I refuse to call my mother for Mother’s Day. Yes, absolutely. That’s okay. I believe no contact is best. But I feel pressure on the holiday to reach out. Yes. Okay, guys, here’s the deal. I hate Father’s Day because I had a really horrible relationship with my dad because he was abusive. Mother’s day, my mom is dead. So um, here’s the deal, and she had issues. God bless her. Um, here’s the deal, you are under no obligation to call them if they were abusive. If they were nasty if they were harmful, hurtful. Here’s the question I asked everybody, if you were not related to them, would you have anything to deal with them? If the answer is no, you act accordingly. Do not have anything to do with them. You’re under no obligation. And what I really hate is when flying monkeys or family friends, you know, get a hold of you, and go like, Oh, well, but, it’s your parents. I don’t care if they were abusive. They have no I have no space in my life for them. Thank you. So, you stay no contact; you don’t feel pressure. Please, do not feel pressured. You do not have to contact them. You don’t if they were abusive, they were neglectful. You know, and here’s the other question. I often ask people it’s like, you know, when they start feeling guilty, like around these holidays, I go, Okay, well, here’s the question. Is your life better without them? Oh, yeah. It’s a lot better without them. There’s your answer. If it’s better without them, keep them out. You don’t need them in. Just because they’re your parent. It doesn’t mean anything. It does their parent in name only. Seriously, think about it. her real mom for real debt is supportive and loving and kind, and there and fun and, you know, offers boundaries and teaches you about life and all that sort of good stuff. Those people are sperm and egg donors. That’s about it. Because there was no emotion. There was no support. There was no love. There was no help. There was no, you know, like, my dad’s hue and cry was, you know, as soon as you’re 18, I’m kicking you out, and I’m doing this, I’m doing that. And did you know he was a horrible person. He really was. And of course, he tried to do that before it turned 18. But, um, you know, they’re not parents. They don’t teach kids how to survive. In the world. They don’t, and they groom us to be abused by other abusers. So yeah, you owe them diddly squat. So, do you don’t feel guilty. Now? Here’s the deal. And I talked about this on Wednesday, shame and guilt. Okay. Guilt is different than shame. Guilt is when we’ve done something we know we shouldn’t have done it, you know, like, we hurt somebody’s feelings. And we know we did. And so, we need to make amends. And then we go do it. Okay. Shame is where somebody else comes in and says you need to feel guilty about this. prefer that shame, guilt, his internal shame is external. So, if you’re feeling shame about not calling your mom, you need to tell those people to go pound sand seriously. It’s like, you know, if anybody ever starts, you know, saying something that oh, well, you shouldn’t talk bad about you, your dad, he’s dead and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, a dare the bitch. I dare that ghost to come into this room. Because I will give him a piece of my mind. And let me tell you why. And then they’re like, Oh, okay.

So, you know, you don’t owe society or family friends, or flying monkeys or anybody else. An explanation as to why you’re not in contact with them. Although I do I point blank, my dad was an abusive a-hole. Sorry, not going to talk to him. Well, he’s dead. But even if he did come back, oh, well, no, I might give him a piece of my mind. But, you know, it’s it the weird things our society has. It’s like, no if somebody’s abusive, they’re abusive. You do not have to have them in your life. I don’t care what day it is. Does that make sense? Okay, hold on. Let’s see. There was wait a minute, I’m going to answer one more because I think there was another question.

Um, have you ever experienced a flying monkey have them going nuts like wearing winter clothing in summer? You know, that would be schizo, is it effective? Or typal Ah, do I have my book? No, I don’t have any of my books, Lord, that schizotypal or schizoaffective is where they were, and I can’t remember which one it is. And we’ll have to look it up. So, I will readdress that one on Wednesday. John, if we can make sure to have that one on Wednesday, that would be good. It’s one of those two, and they were inappropriate clothing. So, like, yeah, summer clothes in the winter, winter clothes in the summer. Very odd thoughts, thoughts of reference, you know, kind of third person kind of thing. So, I will go more into that on Wednesday. Okay, kids. So, here’s the deal. I am not going to be on air for the next two Sundays because I am taking John on his birthday trip because last year, we did Disneyland that was a disaster because Bob asshat was in charge Chapek And so, I told him I’d make it up to him. So, I am taking him on a cruise. We’re going to Alaska, if you’re interested in doing the meet and greet your last day to buy tickets is on Thursday. So, I will be in Vancouver, BC I will let you know where we are. When you buy the tickets and for Portland, I have not decided on the venue yet. So that’s what you don’t have a thing saying where we’re going to be but I’m going to be in Portland, July 2. So, if you would like to come see me in Portland, or if you’d like to come see me in Vancouver, BC. Please do buy those tickets for Vancouver BC before Thursday because of the cutoff time.

All right, so anyway, there’s that, um, so if you have any questions, go ahead and put them in the comments below. Or you can IM me on Facebook. If you have topics that you would like to see me talk about. Please do let me know. And that’s it. So, you guys have a good couple of weeks takes really good care of yourselves. And I will talk to you not next weekend, not the weekend after but the weekend after that, which will be first weekend in June. So, there’s that alright guys, I will talk to you later. Be good yourself. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 05-14-2023 Anything You Say WILL Be Used Against You! appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Do abusers use the “self-harm” card to control and manipulate? How do you tell the difference between a real self-harm threat and one that is about manipulation? Do you have a working knowledge of the way abusers use verbal abuse and derail discussions about their behavior?

Did you know that abusers often need a “harem” of supply and will often intentionally not introduce a target to family and friends so they don’t get caught two-timing? If you’ve ever been on the receiving end of a disrespectful eye roll and a dismissive “We’ve already talked about this!” then you have been an unwilling game participant of an abuser. Listen to this podcast on games they play so you can choose to opt out of their nonsense!

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hi, guys, so um, let’s see announcements. So, I will be in Vancouver BC May 20. So go to krisgodinez.com and you can get tickets there. I will also be in Portland, Oregon, July 2, which is a Sunday. So go krisgodinez and get tickets there. Let’s see. Do I have any other? I think that’s it. I can’t think of anything else. All right. So those are the two dates I have right now.

Um, and current events. So, as you can tell, I don’t know if you can see this I went I went back to Disney. I went back to Disney. Yes, I went back to Disney after I said I would never go back. Happy Easter.  To everybody who celebrates. Um, so I went back to Disney because my buddy Andrea, we’ve been going for years. This is like our girls’ trip that we do, and we go to Disney. So, I’m happy to report extremely happy to report. The magic is back. The magic is back. Iger has righted the ship, it’s going in the right direction. The cast members were happy. They were helpful. They were funny. Oh my God, it was a 180 From what I went through in May. So, I will be writing a letter to Bob Iger to thank him. But what was interesting was the ones that would talk with us and kind of talk about the Chapek dark history that they had to go through… Chapek made fun of anybody who had emotions, about the company or about the parks or about the characters or anything. He’s the one that started the whole damming or bagging on the Disney adults. Well, I hate to break it to you, but the adults are the only ones that have the money to do this. Thank you for you very much, kids don’t. So, it was interesting, because as we were talking to the cast members, they were like, Oh my gosh, they’re paying us better. They’re treating us better. We’ve got our perks back, you know, Chapek was like, Oh, you get to ride for free. They thought that was a perk, you know, and took away all these other perks.

So, I’m happy to report Disney magic is back the only thing I don’t like is that they are still doing the Genie Plus which I don’t like because why should you have to pay extra on top of already being there and paying so that I’m not crazy about. Andrea signed up for it. We did it. It did save on the on the lines, but then for special rights, like Rise of the Resistance and Minnie and Mickey’s Railroad. Yeah, they charge an extra $25. So, I didn’t like that. But what was interesting was, like I said, is it the cast members, were saying the Chapek was making fun of people who had strong emotions, making fun of the cast members that were passionate about their jobs, making fun of the cast members that, you know, enjoyed, you know, being with the public and talking to them in the Disney adults and things like that. So, I would posit that Chapek sounds an awful lot like what we talk about every week, not understanding emotions just couldn’t get it. And that’s what they said the cast members like it was like he couldn’t relate. He couldn’t get it. He made fun of them. He talked down to people that were passionate or had emotions. And there’s only one type of person that I know that does that. And you and I talk about that every week. So, you know what I’m saying? It’s not a diagnosis. I’m just saying if it walks like a narcissistic duck, and quacks like a narcissistic duck in takes a dump like a narcissistic duck, you’re probably dealing with a narcissistic duck. So, the good news is he’s gone. It’s gone. It’s the magic is back. The cast members were wonderful. They were lovely. They were they were so nice. And it was so nice to be back in that. That magic. It really was. So anyway, that’s what I wanted to let you guys know. So that was that’s what I did this week. So that is my current events because honestly oops my battery is dying. Honestly, it’s The company got run down by somebody who wanted to make their mark wanted to be known for making all of these amazing changes and this that I’ve saved the company so much money well at the cost of really bad press. And that’s what that’s what people who are not emotionally cognizant do. So anyway, that’s all I’m going to say about that. So, you it’s safe to go back to Disney now is basically what I’m saying. So, there’s that.

Okay, let’s talk about the games that narcissists play. So, I had several people writing in and going, what is the difference between somebody who self-harms, because they’re having a hard time expressing themselves and somebody who self-harms, to manipulate. Two very different things. So, let’s talk about that. So self-harming cutting, you know, burning, doing things to hurt yourself, that kind of thing. There’s, there’s two ways of doing it. So, when somebody has a difficult time expressing emotions, cutting is often a way to express that emotion, it’s not a healthy way to do it. Not a healthy way to do it. But it’s what they do in order to get that emotion out. Usually anger, usually sadness, not knowing what to do with it. So, they cut, and it’s a release, okay? And big, big difference between the way the abuser uses it and the way that somebody who is unable to express their emotions uses it. So, someone who cuts and is unable to express their emotions, if you ask them why they cut it very often, they’re like, I don’t know. Because they have a hard time expressing what they’re feeling. And so, this is a way of helping them feel it’s also a way to feel alive for them. Okay, if there’s a lot of trauma, this is a way for them to feel alive. Okay. Not a healthy way, not a healthy way. So, with cutters that are doing it to feel they often if you if you ask them to point blank, why did you do that? I don’t know. You know, and or they have a hard time articulating. And it’s because they have a hard time articulating is why they cut so that they can feel, and they can get it out okay. With abusers let’s be 110% Clear. And also, to going back too cutters the cut because it’s a way to cope with things. There’s usually a lot of shame involved in it, and they try to cover it up. Like I had this one client that came in middle of summer now please realize in Phoenix here, it’s 120 freakin degrees in the middle of summer, covered up head to toe. The first question I asked is, do you ever self-harm? And she looked at me like how did you know? And I’m like, You’re covered head to toe, and it’s 120 degrees outside. Let’s talk you know, and so we started talking through the family history and all the trauma and this, that and the other thing so, but that is an indication people that you know, usually cover them up and have some shame about him, you know, because the family shames them. So, it’s a whole it’s a trauma response. Let’s be clear, cutting is a trauma response cutting is a trauma response. Healthy people are able to access their emotion kids that have been shut down. Kids that have been abused kids that had a lot of trauma. Oh my gosh, I’m going to sneeze oh, maybe not. Okay, um, so kids that have been shut down have a lot of trauma, they tend to cut so and so there’s a lot of shame about it because the family shames them on top of all the trauma don’t get me started. So, the way an abuser uses self-harm is that they are loud about it, and they will tell the family or tell the target of abuse.

Kris Godinez  08:47

I hurt myself because of you. I did this because you if you leave me, I’ll kill myself. That’s their line of absolute manuer. So um, they so it’s a completely different reason why somebody trauma response over here, intentionally manipulating over here and I think this is where you know, abusers really use that that gray area. Okay. So, a lot of people have a mistaken thought that people that cut are manipulative know, they’re trying to express themselves. The difference is, is that with an abuser, they will be loud about it. And you made me and you this and you if you don’t do what I want, I’m going to hurt myself. If you don’t do what I want. I’m going to kill myself. Okay. Do you see the difference? So, it’s a manipulation on the part of the abuser it is not a manipulation on the part of somebody who’s been traumatized. That’s covering it up and trying to hide it and you know, just doing it to feel basically, abusers don’t feel abusers don’t feel. So, they’re using that as a fear tactic.

So, what they will often do so like For example, if there is an abuser who is drug and alcohol user, okay? They’re their drug and alcohol user, they’re getting thrown out of the house or they’re being asked to leave. What they will do is they will turn to whoever is giving them shelter. If you throw me out on the streets, I’m going to kill myself. Because they’re using that guilt, fear, obligation guilt, fear, obligation, guilt on the parent on the sibling on the friend on whoever is giving them shelter at that time, because basically they’ve worn out their welcome, they’ve you know, broken all every rule, stolen things, etc., etc., etc. And so, the parent, the family, the siblings, the friends, whoever says, Okay, you must leave, here’s your date. Well, if you throw me out, I’m going to hurt myself. That’s manipulation. That’s a threat. That’s an ultimatum anybody who gives you threats or ultimatums….hell to the no that is a manipulation 110%. So that is one of the games that they play, is that if you don’t do what I want you to do, if you don’t, you know, take care of me if you don’t do this, if you don’t do that, I’ll hurt myself, way different than a trauma response cutter. Okay, huge difference. So, okay.

All right. Um, oh, and I also wanted to say in July, I’m going to have Tara Cote come on and she is a master at she does tattooing to cover scars and things like that. So, we’re going to talk more about that in July, because I want her to come on, and explain how that is done. Because people don’t want to have those scars. So, we’re going to talk about it wasn’t tattooing. It’s like a, I don’t know, she’ll explain it anyway.

So um, okay. So yes, narcissists threatened suicide. I just saw that pop up. I’m going to answer that right now. Yes, they threatened suicide. It’s a manipulation. Now, they will do superficial gestures. So, let’s be very clear here. They will cut themselves and say, Oh, I tried to kill myself. But I can guarantee you it’s a superficial wound, I can guarantee you it would not have led to death. I can guarantee so they do things so that they are either found, or that it’s superficial. So, and they’ll let tons of people know, I am now going to kill myself kind of thing. Usually with narcissists, It’s when they have borderline on board as well. But let’s be very clear, this is not a trauma response. This is them being manipulative, okay? Because you’re not doing what they want you to do. Do you see the difference? Do you see the difference? Now, if somebody is saying, I’m depressed, and I just don’t want to be here, get them help. Get them help get them to a suicide hotline, get them to a therapist, get them to a DBT therapist, a CBT therapist, any therapist, get them to a therapist. But if somebody is doing it as a manipulation, do what I want or I’m going to kill myself that’s intentional. That’s a manipulation. Their gestures tend to be superficial, they’re not or they’re do it so that they can be found. So, you know, it’s not, it’s not real. It’s a manipulation, fear, obligation, guilt, do what I want, or I’ll kill myself. That’s what abusers do. So, I wanted to address that.

There’s two very different cutters, okay. Cutters who come from trauma, it’s a trauma response, they generally have a lot of shame about it, they cover it up. They don’t want to talk about it. It’s a way to for them to feel, feel something. Because when you know this when you’re in an abusive family, and they’ve shut you down, shut you down, shut you down, you don’t feel anything. And sometimes you’re like, do I exist? Because you know, let me give you an example. When I was in high school, and my dad was doing his weirdness in high school. Sometimes I would walk down the hallway and go, am I real? Is this real? You know, do I exist? Is this…? Because I didn’t. I didn’t feel connected. I didn’t feel like in my body. I didn’t feel you know, anything really, except fear. So yeah, it’s a way to feel now I never cut because I’m a chicken and I don’t like the sight of blood. But I think if that had if it had gone on, I think I probably would have I as soon as because I was suicidal when I was in high school. I absolutely was I remember very distinctly one night climbing up onto the slide and looking out and just going, you know, maybe I should just off myself because I can’t take this anymore. So yeah, so when you’re in an abusive relationship, when you’re in an abusive family, you go numb, you absolutely go Numb. So, cutting is a trauma response. It’s a way to feel it’s a way to relieve stress. It’s a way to feel anger. It’s a way to feel whatever. But unfortunately, it’s internalized. So, we take it out on ourselves.

So, if there are any cutters out there, get to a good therapist, get to a good therapist or start working Self Esteem Workbook. Inner Child Workbook, really start working with trauma book CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving, because you don’t need to take it out on yourself, and it’s okay to feel and that is the big thing. Feelings are frightening for children and adult children who’ve had family that just smashed ‘em, you know, it’s like, if you had an emotion and they made you wrong for it, why would you have an emotion, it wouldn’t be safe. So, get used to, it’s okay. It’s okay to have emotions, it’s okay to feel you don’t need to cut, it’s okay. So, get to a good trauma therapist to work on that. See and that’s the difference because somebody who is cutting usually recognize this isn’t healthy, I need to do something and then they go get help when it’s offered. Whereas with a narcissist, they don’t they’re not doing it to, you know, feel they’re doing it to manipulate, and they don’t go to therapy. And if they do, they’ll go one to three times and then their peace out and they never come back. So, there is that, okay.

All right, other games that they play. So, this Okay, so the one on cutting I got from talk about Talking About Self-Injury. And this is written by Anthony D. Smith, he’s a licensed mental health counselor. And I talked about how, you know, the language of self-injury is if you ask them, they’re like, I don’t know, or I was stressed or, you know, that kind of thing. self-injury is not always suicidal for the ones that it is trauma based. Okay. So that’s, I just wanted to make that clear. Anyway, that was a good article on psychology today.

All right. Now, games that narcissist play three ways that abusers use verbal abuse to control and derail discussion. So, the name of the game basically with abusers is power and control, power and control and how do disordered people get power and control? Fear. Obligation. Guilt, Fear, obligation, guilt. So, um, all right. So that’s it. And that’s why they do the whole I’m going to kill myself if you don’t do what I want you to do, etc.

Okay. So, if you are in a discussions, this is a game they play, when you’re in discussions with them, you’re trying to point out to them what’s going on? Okay, first, it’s never going to work because they’re never going to hear it because they’re never wrong. So, they focus on the right time. Well, now isn’t the time to talk about it now is not the right time to talk about now is not good. Well, it’s never going to be good for them. So that’s a game that they play, and they make it they make you feel like eventually there will be a good time. And there never is. So, every single time you bring it up, it’s Oh, now is not a good time now is not a good time. All right, Deriding the repetition. So, you bring it up again to them. So, what do they do? They roll their eyes? Not this again. You know, as if you had discussed it, which you haven’t, because now is not good, right? So, they roll their eyes, they get nasty, they Oh, you’re bringing this up again. That’s the past.

Kris Godinez  18:19

One, well, if it didn’t get resolved, it’s in the present. But they won’t see that because they don’t want to discuss it. So, they get what’s the word? I’m looking for snarky. That’s one word. But they are looking down rolling their eyes, contemptuous. Their contempt, they have a lot of contempt. And so how dare you bring this up again? Right, even though it didn’t get resolved, how dare you bring this up? This again? What’s wrong with you this again, so they’re kind of flipping the script, which is another game they play. And, you know, we’ll be bringing this up again, as if it had been resolved and it hadn’t, and that’s gaslighting. So, they do that.

Sleight of hand the blame shift. And when they do this, they see it they do word salad. So, word salad is the this again, and you’re always doing this and, and you know, this is your fault. Boom, there’s the shift. So, it was like word salad word salad, boom, it’s your fault. So that is something to keep in mind and verbal abuse need not involve a loud voice. They can be very quiet about it. So, it’s not always yelling sometimes it’s like, really this again. You always do this to me. Why do you always do this to me? Now it’s not a good time. And you know what? This was your fault anyway. Whoa, what? What the actual? Oh my God. That’s what they do. That is what they do. So that is one verbal game that they play.

All right, why narcissists play games. It’s up out power and control, like every single article. So, here are some examples of game playing, being hard to reach or ghosting, demanding that you respond every single text instantaneously. And this is again on Psychology Today. This is who is this by Darlene Lancer LMFT. And this is called Why Narcissists Play Games with Your Heart going hot in cold pursuing, than distracting, such as becoming slowed or to return calls or texts, or only sending short impersonal texts. And this is for like romantic, I want to make that clear. making promises they can’t or don’t keep. So future faking. So future faking is huge with our all when we get married, will have kids will have this great little cottage with a picket fence and a fireplace and two dogs and a cat. And, you know, they future fake, they have no intention of doing that. Or they don’t talk about the relationship at all. And they don’t want to talk about the relationship and all they cannot commit. That is something else. They do lying or being slippery and hard to pin down. That’s another game they play, basically, and this is what I’m going to be talking more about next week is the pathological lying because people are like, I don’t understand how can they lie to my face? How can they do that? We’re going to talk more about pathological lying, we’re going to talk about what to look for how to how to spot a liar, basically. So that one is going to be called lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. If their lips are moving, they’re lying. Maybe I should call it if their lips are moving. I think maybe that’s what I’ll do. If their lips are moving. They’re lying.

So, they play games like that they lie sometimes just to see if they can get away with it. Because remember, it’s power and control game. power. And control is the name of the game and fear. obligation and guilt is how they do it. Being very seductive and moving incredibly fast in the beginning, but then as soon as they have the person. The affection drives up. sex drives up, it’s gone. All right, refusing to discuss the relationship flirting in front of you. disrespectful, disrespectful. If you’re with somebody, you’re with somebody, you don’t take your glasses and go Oh, yeah. No, but they do. You know, they will actively in front of you ogle people flirt with them the whole thing. Why? Because they’re looking for their new supply, even though they’ve got the target. They’re always there. Like sharks, they’re predators. It’s like they’re always like, where’s my new supply? Where’s my new supply? Where can I get my new supply? Oh, look, there’s a new supply. And they’ll start and plus the fact they need a hero. They need a hero. They have a rotating list of people that they keep on the line. And they just go back through. So yeah, they did. dogface banana patch, honestly. Okay. Um, all right. To do to do okay, flirting in front of you, okay, hiding you from friends and family, they will not introduce you to their friends and family. That’s a huge red flag. And why? Because they don’t want to have to explain who you are. And they don’t want to have to explain why they’re introducing another person when they’ve got another person on the line. Do you see where I’m going with this? It’s all about smoke and mirrors. It’s all about camouflage. It’s all about. And so, what they do is they make the target of abuse feel less than, So the target of abuse goes, Hey, I’d love to meet your mom and dad. Oh, you know, no, I don’t think that’s a good idea. Blah, blah, blah. And then they keep putting it off. keep putting it off. You keep putting it off. And pretty soon the target of abuse is Am I not good enough to meet your mom and dad? What’s going on? How come you don’t want me to meet your family? How can we never hang out with your friends? Well, you’re their dirty little secret basically.

So, anybody who is unwilling after a certain amount of time of dating, to introduce you to their family and friends Houston there’s a red flag, there’s some sort of game playing going on. So, a lot of times these abusers are married, or they’ve got a girlfriend, or they’ve got some other supply over here, and they don’t want anybody else to know about the little harem that they have going on over here and this goes for female narcissists as well. So, it’s not just male narcissisrs that do this. Its females do this as well. So, anyone who’s unwilling to introduce you to their family and friends after a good amount of you know time yeah, that’s kind of a red flag you want to not kind of it is like withholding feelings, not being able to express them hello, or sex.

So stone walling. So, cutting you off stonewalling. I don’t I don’t want to talk to you. That’s a game play. That’s playing games because that’s getting you to do whatever they want. So, if you do something they don’t like, and they Stonewall, then that is a manipulation that is a way to make you hurt, so that you will be begging them for attention and so that when they you finally get their attention, you’re so grateful. You’re like, Oh, thank God. Because stonewalling activates the same. shunning activates the same pain centers as physical pain. So, it feels like being beaten up basically. Blaming you and playing the victim. That’s a game that they play Absolutely. 110% not being the first to call or text so they won’t be I cannot tell you the number of times. So, narcissists think that they are God. We know this, they seriously do. And they will not call family and friends. But then what they’ll do, and I’m thinking particularly of narcissistic in-laws, is that they will then be angry the next time you see them, Well, you never call me. You never write you never do this, you, you, you guns, that’s the game they play. So, narcissists never reach out, which is crazy, because they want the attention. But they don’t want to be the one to reach out to get it. So, they will wait until they see you in person and then make you wrong for not calling them. I cannot tell you the number of couples I worked with that had that going on with the in-laws that were narcissists. So yeah, they do the whole I’m too important to, Well, why should I call? I actually had one say that. Why should I call? Cuz the phone line goes both ways. Last time I checked, yeah. you hoser, you know what I’m saying? So, and that that was the BS, it was I’m too important to call. But you’re going to make them wrong for not no. So, no contact, no contact, no contact, if somebody’s playing that game.

Okay, so here are some more games that they play the narcissistic formula, You Get to Choose How You Lose. And this is by Jeremy E. Sherman a PhD. I love that title. I think it’s great. The narcissistic formula, you get to choose how you lose. So basically, here are some examples. Within my framing, you’re wrong frame it any other way. And you’re wrong. It’s like, they’ve got an idea about this. And if you say you know that you disagree with them. You’re wrong. That’s there’s no, there’s no.

Kris Godinez  27:46

There’s no give and take with a narcissist. There’s no back and forth with a narcissist, okay? They don’t have discussions, they have audiences, basically because they’re the king or queen. So, you can’t have a civil discussion with them and disagree with them. Because everyone literally has to think and believe the way that they do. I’ll give you an example. So, one time with a family member who I shall not name. I was making a grilled cheese sandwich. And some people make it with butter. I made it with mayonnaise. And because I made it with mayonnaise, this person would not leave me alone. Well, why are you making with mayonnaise? How dare you make it with I make it with butter. Okay, how nice for you. I do it with mayonnaise. And it was like, they couldn’t get it and it was driving him crazy that I did not do things the way they did. That is what narcissists do. And so that’s, that’s kind of an extreme example, but it’s kind of the same thing. It’s like you cannot have a differing opinion. You cannot have you know, on anything like from how to make a grilled cheese sandwich, to politics to religion to whatever.

Okay, number two, you lose because you didn’t meet my nitpicky standards. If I say you don’t meet them, you lose because you’re too nitpicky. What? Yeah, double standards galore. So, in other words, they’re nitpicky, you’re not good enough. But then if you say what they’re doing doesn’t, you know, meet your standards. Well, you’re too You’re too picky. You’re too this, you’re too that you’re too emotional. You’re too blah, blah, blah, hello. But to them, everybody around them has to be perfect. And that’s again, nobody’s perfect. Nobody is perfect. Considering all the framings mine’s the best because within my framework, my framing says it’s the best. So again, you can’t win. So, in other words, they’re like, you know, let’s say religion. For example. They’ll say, Well, my church says that you’re going to hell if you don’t believe that way, I believe. And if you can’t win you, you cannot win. Don’t try, don’t play. Don’t play. The best way to win is to not play!

My Passion for achieving greatness is the strongest, which proves I’m an expert on how to achieve greatness. If you don’t believe I’m the expert, just look at my passion. Anyone? Oh god. Yeah. So basically, it’s, yeah, it’s yeah. So, they’re basically saying, you know, they’re right. You know, I’m right in everything, everything you shouldn’t question me. How dare you? How dare you question. I know everything. And if I don’t, it’s irrelevant. So that’s another game that narcissists love to play is, I am the expert on literally everything right? You know, if you guys ask me a question, and I truly don’t know the answer, I will be like, I don’t know that. Let me go research it. And I’ll get back to you. Because I don’t know everything. I don’t. I mean, there’s some areas of psychology that are not my strong point. So, you know, yeah, yeah, it’s it. They are literally know it all. They know everything about everything. And half the time if you’re really listened to one of these Jack wagons, they’re talking out of their hind in, and they don’t know Jack diddly squat. But they figure if they do enough word salad, it sounds like they do. But you have to listen to the content, not just the context, you have to listen to the content. What are they really saying? Is it word salad? Does it make sense? Do they really know what they’re talking about? Oh, hell no. So yeah, that’s something that they love to do. I will get to the questions in just a moment.

Okay, so this is something that cult leaders do any law that hampers me proves that I serve a higher power. So, cult leaders will hide behind religion and use the religion as an excuse to abuse their kids, you know, Spare the rod spoil the child. I can’t tell you the number of times I heard that, and I was a kid. And I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard abuse survivors say that their parents you know beat the crap out of them and then said the Bible told them to Yeah, or some religion told them to I’m not picking on Christians. I want to be clear here. Abusers will use whatever religion suits their purpose. Okay? Whatever religion suits their purpose to abuse. Alright, so communal narcissists use that the cult leaders, you know, that kind of thing.

I always win because when I lose, it doesn’t count. So never play board games with these types. They will Oh, my God. This did not happen to me. But listening to my clients when they were kids that they had a parent that was narcissistic. If they played a board game, the parent would start cheating in order to win because they couldn’t stand losing like I kid you not like narcissist to them. It is like, they cheat at board games. Yes. Absolutely. it to them. It absolutely they have to win, and they will ruin it for the kids and cheat. And you know, upset the table if they don’t win. And in throw the board game around. I mean, the stories, the stories, and then people wonder why I loved going to Disney because I don’t have to think for days. That’s a wonderful thing. So um, yeah, they absolutely are terrible. Which is why when I hear that there are good parents out there the play board games with their kids, their kids love it, and they can’t wait to have board game night. That makes me so happy because that means that the parents are better adjusted, more adjusted, you know, and they know that it’s not everything has to be a win, right? So, you know, you win, you lose. That’s the way of life. Hello. So okay, so that I’m almost done with this, hang on, and then we’re going to get to the questions.

I always win. And if I lose, I win because I got your attention. So, they blow up, they have a fit, they throw things they whatever they get to live rent free in your head. My rash extremism is heroic, and challenging me is rash. So any challenge to them is considered a personal attack by them. And they will twist it word salad and then twist it so that it’s all your fault. So just keep that in mind. I know exactly what you should do. And if I fail, remember, no one knows anything. So basically, that statement is like, I’m absolutely right. I’m absolutely righteous. I know what’s best for you. You don’t know yourself. I know you better than you know yourself. I cannot tell you how dangerous that statement is. No, no, no. Oh, Aloha Pamela! No, you know yourself better than anybody else because you live with you 24/7 365 24/7 You know you better than anybody else. And that includes therapists because you live with yourself. That’s why a good therapist meets their client where they or, and goes into their, what they’re experiencing as opposed to let me tell you where wherever you know, you know, it’s like me now there are times when you have to be like reality check. But it’s like you meet them where they are, and the client knows themselves better than anybody else. The client knows themselves better than anybody else.

So, when a client comes to me and says, Hey, this book isn’t working, okay, let’s try this one. Because it’s not working for, I’m not going to sit there and be like, you know, it’s like, read it! Well, let’s find one that works, you know. So, abusers will come in and say, I know you better than anybody else. I know what you should do. And if it fails, oh, wasn’t my fault. Well, you obviously didn’t do it, right? What? Those are the mind games that they play so that no matter what happens, you are always wrong. Like, seriously, like, they will do that, you know, it’s like, I know what you should do, you should do this, you need to do this. You got to go do this. You better go do this. You go do it. It turns into a disaster. Well, it wasn’t my fault. You did it wrong. What? You know, it’s just like, when my dad forced me to go into cosmetology, he was like, well, you need a backup job. Okay, well, I can work as a secretary, I’d rather be doing that. Thank you very much. So, you know, he forced me to go into secret into, I’m sorry, into cosmetology. And, you know, it was like, Well, I know what’s best for you… And um, you know, looking back on it, I should have told him to go stuff it. Because that was not best for me. I did not enjoy it. And I had allergies and no, so yeah, they do that. No, they don’t know what’s best for you. They don’t know you, you know, you. You know you; you know you trust your gut work on trusting your gut work on acknowledging, yeah, my guts telling me something’s not right about this. Okay, I’m going to honor that. I’m going to listen to that. That’s what’s going to keep you safe. So. All right. So those are the games that they play. So, I hope that that was helpful. All right. Anything else? Any last thoughts on that? So, remember, I just want to recap.

Kris Godinez  37:11

With the self-harm. Generally, again, when its trauma based, it’s to feel so that they can release stress. And generally, if you ask them, they’re like, I don’t know, I was stressed, I don’t know. They’re having a hard time expressing themselves. With an abuser, you did this to me, you made me You made me That’s their favorite hue and cry, you know, or if you don’t do what I want, I’m going to go hurt myself. If you don’t do what I want, I’m going to fill in the blank. They’ll also use threats, let’s be very, very clear. If the more antisocial they are. They’ll also threaten you, you know, if you don’t do I want I will hurt you. So, believe them, if they make a threat like that. This is the thing about narcissists, psychopaths, Machiavellian, dark triad, they basically tell you what they are going to do, or how they are going to manipulate if you’re listening to it, but you have to be trained, you have to know that these are games, you know, you have to know that none of this is normal, or healthy or whatever. And unfortunately, our society does not teach the Yeah, this is how these people manipulate. Now, let’s get to the questions. So, there’s a big difference. So, this is to the ones that do it out of trauma, or to feel something because they’ve been smashed down so much that they don’t feel and it’s a way to feel, and it’s to relieve stress and things like that. And that can be worked on, which is good. Get to a good trauma therapist. When it’s a narcissist doing what they do is, I’m going to hurt myself, if you don’t do what I want you to do. If you don’t do what I want you to do, you know, oh, look, I hurt myself. It’s all your fault. Yeah, that’s what abusers do. It’s a manipulation. It’s fear, obligation and guilt. And they do that to force the parent or the partner, or the friend or whatever to toe the line. So, if there’s any sort of condition involved, it’s manipulative. Okay, over here, there’s no condition involved. They’re doing it to feel over here. There’s a condition involved. Does that make sense? So, there is that all right. Okay, so those are all the games, and I would seriously go look up those articles and read through them because that’s the games that they play. That’s what narcissists play in order to manipulate and control and to always be right. So, you know, and watching a person play a board game tells me everything I need to know about them. If they’re having fun, and it’s great. Okay, cool. This person is okay. If they’re, you know, angry and competitive and they have to win. Oh, Houston, we got a huge problem. You know what I’m saying? So there that is, okay.

Do narcs threaten suicide? Yes. My late narc. Mother was often threatening with suicide when I was younger. And when she was old, she kept saying She had enough wished she was dead to get sympathy. Yes, absolutely. It’s how do I explain this. So, it’s, it’s a way for them to get attention generally what I have found not always because every case is different. But in the cases where someone did attempt suicide, they didn’t say a word. They didn’t say a word, not a word. And with older people, when you know, they’re getting ready to kind of go like, crossover, they start giving away you know, really intensely personal items. That’s not suicide, that’s them getting ready to go, you know, like, pass on. So, they start giving away items but with somebody who is truly intent on killing themselves, they don’t they don’t tell people they don’t tell because they don’t want to be found. They don’t they don’t want to be interrupted. So yeah, so when some when narcissists do it again, it’s an ego thing. It’s a sympathy thing. It’s a look at me thing, it’s you know, and it’ll be a superficial gesture. If they do it. A lot of times, it’s all do it. I’m going to do myself; I don’t want to be here. Nobody loves me. I’m going to go to the garden and eat big, hairy, scary worms. You know, whatever. That’s kind of what narcissists do so, narcissists remember, they can flip back and forth between how they do their narcissism. So overt is over the top. Look, I mean, look, look at me. Covert is the victim. It’s the constant victim. Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. You know, nothing is ever right. Oh, look, this went wrong. Oh, look, that went wrong. You know, they’re always talking about the negative and they’re always, you know, looking for sympathy. You know, pay attention to me, give me sympathy. Oh, poor you. That’s what they’re looking for. Those are covert ones. Communal ones, like I said, use religion. Any religion could be Buddhism. It could be new age, it can be I mean, there’s a whole bunch of cults out there that are new agey, and Oh, lord. Yeah, that communal narcissists that, you know, tell their followers to kill themselves and you know, drink Kool Aid and all this sort of stuff. So communal Narcissists Yeah. So, they can flip back and forth, depending on what gets them what they want. It depends on what works, basically. So, they’re manipulative in that they can flip literally, from overt to covert to communal.

So, if the overt stuff doesn’t work, they’ll flip to the victim stuff. Poor me. And then, oh, God told me, you need to do what I want. Because God told me, you know, that kind of thing, or Buddha or whoever. So yeah, they flip back and forth between whatever they think is going to get them what they want. And generally, the covert ones go for the sympathy. So, do they do this suicidal ideation? Yes, absolutely. If they do a suicidal gesture, it’s going to be superficial, because a narcissist cannot imagine the world without them. Yeah, they’re that narcissistic. You betcha. Okay.

Um, do narcissists. Say. You said certain things while they said it. Absolutely. Well, they said it themselves earlier in the conversation earlier in the day, it seems narcs accuse you of saying things saying things, especially in front of others, yes, that is gaslighting. So, they will have said something. Or they will say Oh, you never told me that when you’ve told them 100,000 million times, gaslighting Oh, I never said that. Oh, no, You never said that. Oh, they never said that. You know, they, they gaslight so that’s gaslighting and they will do it in front of an audience. So, remember, the more overt they are, the more they need an audience. They need somebody to cheer them on. They need somebody to play to, so they enjoy starting stuff in front of other family members. This is why family gatherings are often a minefield, I think, especially you know, Christmas, Thanksgiving, maybe Easter. But you know, which is today, but they need an audience. And so that’s why they will start. I mean, I can’t tell you the number of times my dad would out of the blue literally decide that he was going to hit me for apparently no reason. Just because I said something he didn’t like, or I don’t know, I looked at him wrong. I don’t know. In the middle of dinner, like a family dinner. He would just backhand me. And the one that comes to mind is we were we were eating outside. There was family over and he did it again. And I don’t know what I said that he didn’t like the boy howdy. He backhanded me and he was a big guy who’s six, five and he had hands like frying pans. And he backhanded me, and I was like yep, I’m done. And I went inside. I got my purse. I got my car keys and I started to drive off and my mother threw herself on top of the car. Couldn’t get any more dramatic than that. So yeah, they do. They absolutely they ruin they ruin be clear. They ruin family holidays. They ruin anniversaries, they ruin birthdays, they ruin everything because they can, and they can’t stand happiness. They love chaos. We talked about that last week. So yeah, that’s they do that type of thing. You betcha and they will say things you know, that’s gaslighting. Oh, you never said that. I never said that. They never said that. Blah, blah. I didn’t know you did. So yeah, that’s gaslighting. And they will go to their graves insisting that they that you said it when they did. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. They accuse and we’re going to talk more about this next week. They accuse people around them the target of abuse, especially of the very things that they are doing. So that’s why they’ll you know, you will know you said that I didn’t say that horrible thing. You said that horrible thing. Or, you know, I never you know, I never said that. You said that or use you said blah, blah, blah, and you never did you know, or I never I don’t remember saying this when they did you know, or they’ll accuse you of having an affair when they’re the ones having an affair. So yeah, there’s this whole gaslighting thing going on. They basically tell you what they’re doing by how they make accusations. You just got to listen and know what to look for. You know, it’s like, when you get accused of something like that. You’re so shocked. You’re like, what? No, I’m not. What are you talking about?

Kris Godinez  46:33

It doesn’t even cross your mind that hey, they just told you what they’re doing. But that’s what you got to look for. That’s what you got to look for. Okay, um, all right. And they do need an audience. Absolutely.

Okay, mommy, dearest texted me today with a photo of my narcissistic daughter and granddaughter saying she thought it was me. Instead of daughter. I’ve been no contact for 13 years with my mom any response are just No. No, if you’ve been no contact, do not resume contact. So, I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, they will out of the blue send you Hey, I miss you. Hey, how are you doing? Hey, I was thinking about you. Oh, here’s a picture of you when you were a kid, you know, they will do that in order to get you back in contact with them because you’ve been no contact for you know, a decade or more. So, they will do things like that do not respond, do not respond, do not respond. So yeah, they will. They will do that. They absolutely will do that. Okay. All right. Okay, there’s a question up there. I definitely want to…

How to deal with them turning everyone against you. Okay, so that is the smear campaign. I’m going to get to another question in just a minute. That is the smear campaign. So, here’s the deal. People who are willing to believe the worst of you do not deserve the best of you. So, if somebody is willing to believe the abuser and they’re absolute you don’t need them in your life. You do not need them in your life. I would start working the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. I would start working the Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker. Get your boundaries up have your list of deal breakers in a deal breaker. real serious deal breaker is anyone who sides with the abuser is out. Like no second chances  bye now. Buh bye. Okay, you don’t need them in your life. So, turning everyone against you. If they’re turning family members against you, those family members should know who you are. And if they don’t, you don’t need them. Family is not always blood. Go make your own family if the family is disordered and they’re siding with the abuse, be done kind, go, no contact. Same thing with friends. Same thing with colleagues. Same thing with whatever it’s like you do No, we do not negotiate with terrorists. Okay. If they’re willing to believe the worst of you, they certainly don’t deserve the best of you. So be done.

Let them go. Write an angry letter. Dear Family friends, whoever that went with the abuser, bleep the bleep bleep bleep bleep out of bleeping BLEEP you go pound sand. You don’t get to live in my head rent-free one more second. Thanks for playing. Have a nice life and bye Have a nice life. I mean, go beyond sand. Trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it let it go and work on your self-esteem work on your list of deal breakers. No disrespect no lie. No siding with the abuser No cheating, no stealing, no gaslighting, no name calling. You know, those are all huge. Okay. So, if somebody is willing to believe the worst of you, they don’t get the best of you. There you go.

All right is a learned helplessness again, ab-so-freakin-lutely not being able to do anything themselves? Yes. Oh my god. Oh, thank you Sarah. Um, yes, it absolutely it is absolutely a game. Absolutely. It is a game. It is a game. They do know how to do stuff for themselves. They just don’t want to. So, my grandmother, Bertha, oh god, she was a nightmare. She was my mom’s mom. She was absolutely a narcissistic, POS. Abusive, not nice. didn’t like her. Oh my god. She lived with us from the time I was 10 until I moved out. So, she would constantly play the victim constantly. Oh, I’m so feeble, I’m so old. Okay. Because if you turned your back, she was moved around like crazy. She could get around; she could get around. She just was trying to make everybody wait on her. And she insisted on that she would demand that the entire family wait on her hand and foot and my mother did and I’m like What is wrong with you? She is out dancing when you’re turning your back. You know, I mean, seriously. So? Yes, they learned helplessness is absolutely a covert narcissistic way of doing that. It is a game. They do it to see if you’ll if you’ll play the game. Don’t absolutely do not and make them do it themselves. Absolutely don’t play the game.

So, something that got brought up is they do take away everything every relationship. The dog, the cat, the youngest brother, the youngest sister, the oldest sister, they do they take it away. Absolutely. They want us to be isolated. So that we depend on them and them alone. Were so they were miserable there they are miserable people. They’re evil. 110% they do abuse pets and Tap Dogs and cats and take them away from us. And oh, no, you can’t have it. You don’t have the right situation all take care of it. But then the dog or the cat gets killed, which has happened more often than not, or they don’t take care of it well, or whatever. And they break off every relationship that we’ve ever had, whatever family members, they turn people against us. They lie, lie if their lips are moving, they’re lying. So yeah, absolutely 110% they do that. And that is a game that is a game. Isolation game. It’s like, I’m going to see who’s on my side. And if I have more people on my side, you lose. That’s exactly what they’re doing. So, when they’re doing the smear campaign, and they’re trying to turn people against you, they’re sitting there taking tallies of who’s on their side. Seriously, so don’t play, you just cut them off, you’d be done. It’s like, okay, you want to side with an abuser pound sand, bye, bye. But that is the best way to do that. So, there is that? I hope that answers the question. Okay, it looks like we’ve got them all.

So next week, I want to talk more about the lying I want to talk more about trusting your gut when they start lying because then we get that feeling. You know, it’s kind of like wait a minute, this doesn’t feel right. And then they gaslight you and say oh no, trust me, trust me. You know, and you can’t so we’re going to talk about more about the lying. So, if their lips are moving, I think is what I’m going to name it. If their lips are moving. They’re lying. So, we’re going to talk about the lying we’re going to talk about pathological lying, it is not in the DSM, but they do that, so it just drives me crazy. Anyway, so there is all that I hope you guys have a great week Disney is safe to go back to I am so happy Thank you Bob Iger and damn you Bob Chapek. So anyway, have a great week and take care of yourselves Drink plenty of water and I will talk to you next Sunday and we will be talking about if their lips are moving. Alright guys, take care. Bye

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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The post 04-09-2023 Games They Play i.e., Hurting Themselves appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

01:01

Okay, current events. All right. In the last week or so, there have been more shootings and more stabbings. And so there was the Club Q shootings, there was the Walmart shootings, and there was the Idaho stabbings of the four students. And again, guys, it’s not the weapon, it’s the mental health. I cannot stress this enough. Healthy, sane people thinking clearly do not act on murderous impulses. Let me just say that, again, healthy, sane people do not act on murderous impulses. Have there been times when you’re just like, why I ought to… Yeah, I’m sure there have been, but you don’t act on them. You know what I’m saying? So again, it’s not the weapons, if somebody is determined to kill, they will find whatever they can find machetes, knives, poison, you name it. It’s not the weapons, it is the mental health we this country, Sweet baby Jesus needs mental health reform like nobody’s business. It has always been a thing in our country that Oh, my Lord, my hair is going everywhere. It has always been a thing in our country that mental health has been stigmatized, like insanely.

So, like, if you had in the old days if you had depression, or anxiety, or anything like that, you were basically thrown into an institution and given shock treatments or cold-water treatments or whatever. And, you know, hidden away from society, children who had autism or mental health issues, or they were slow or whatever, would be shoved into attics and just kind of, you know, oh, we don’t talk about we don’t talk about Bruno, that kind of thing. So, um, mental health needs to be reformed in this country it does. And then of course, I get the opposite, where people are like, oh, well, but you’re bagging on narcissists Damn straight I am, I will never defend an abuser because it’s a choice. They’re choosing to do that. So again, the legal definition of insanity is delusional, not knowing right from wrong. These Jack wagons know right from wrong, and they’re choosing to do wrong. So, getting back to the stigma of mental health, it’s important that we start demanding it; it’s important that we start saying, hey, hello, public health issue because it is when somebody thinks it’s perfectly okay to grab a gun and go into a store, or go into a nightclub, or go into, you know, a rental place with a knife and kill people in their beds. Houston, we got a big problem. We got a big problem. There’s not a day that goes by that there isn’t a story on shootings stabbings. You know, things like that. Runway drivers intentionally trying to commit suicide by cop or trying to commit suicide by driving the wrong way on the freeways that happens in Phoenix. Oh my god. Yeah, so anyway, mental health needs to be addressed in this country. And if it was guys, we would see less of these violent acts, and there wouldn’t be this nonverbal permission for the abusers to abuse. Think about it that way. So, if you want to make a difference get on the horn get on your computer contact your congressman your representative your whoever your town council. It needs to start locally do it to the town council as well. Get a hold of your town council get a hold of your senator your state senator, your federal Senator whatever, get a hold of them and just be like dude, dudette this is a problem. This is a problem, and here’s why it’s a problem, and here’s where we need to fix it. So anyway, there endth the rant that is my news for the week because it’s I, just it makes me angry that these people are slipping through the cracks. And of course, the relatives of the shooter in Colorado, were like, oh, there were no signs hmmm I’m calling BS. You know, so yeah, it these people are slipping through the cracks, and they’re going on to become violent. And it’s a danger to society if you want to look at it that way. It’s a danger to society, walking into a Walmart shooting up your, your coworkers… danger to society. You know, it just, it needs to be addressed. So, there it is. Alright, I’m done. Okay, fine. All right.

05:40

All right. So, moving on. Um, so this week is you are your own hero, you are! Now, something that has been coming up for a lot of my clients over the years, not just recently, but over the years, is this desire or wish to be saved. And totally understandable. You’re in an abusive situation you want the fairy godmother or the knight in shining armor or whatever to come save you, you do, and that… it is very much an inner child thing. So, let’s kind of address what’s going on. And then we’re going to talk about ways you can save yourself because, ultimately, you do save yourself. It’s not somebody else that saves you. It’s you that saves you, and you have the power. It’s kind of like… how to explain. It’s kind of like in The Wizard of Oz, when Glenda looks at Dorothy and says you’ve had the power all along. Of course, at that point, I probably would have throat-punched her, but you know, I mean, it’s like you couldn’t have told me this three and a half hours ago. Um, but you know, you have the power all along. You do. It’s just that we’ve been unempowered, we’ve been disenfranchised, we’ve been, what’s the word I’m looking for? We’ve been, we’ve been lied to by our abusers, no matter who the abuser was, whether that was, you know, boss, or a romantic partner, or family or whatever, and their greatest desire is to kill us, soul death. That’s what they want. They want us dead, dead, dead.

07:12

So, and the way that they do that is that they take away our power and they lie to us. So, when they’re doing the love bombing, right, they’re mirroring us back to them. Okay. So are us back to you know, their Lord. They take our best qualities; they pretend to have them, and they mirror back to us. Okay, that’s the love bombing. And so that’s why we think, oh my gosh, this person is like my other half. Oh my gosh, this person is exactly like me. You know, it’s like, so they mirror the best of us back to ourselves. And, but, and when they start doing the whole what is the word? I’m looking for devalue and discard? They take the best of us, and they start damning us for it. So, let’s say that they loved you for your sense of humor. Suddenly you’re so childish, you’re so this. You’re so that… ba,ba,ba,ba,ba, right? And then, or they loved you for your free spirit or your emotionality, right? That you’re able to feel well, Oh, you’re too sensitive, you’re too this or to that. Well, then we start believing, um, we start believing them. And we start believing that we are all of the horrible things that they are saying, that is a soul death. So, they are projecting their stuff on to us. It is not us.

So how do we save ourselves? First of all, you’ve got to recognize you’re in an abusive relationship. This… if anyone, I don’t care who the hell they think they are, starts telling you that all the things they loved about you are suddenly now not okay. Oh, Houston, there is a problem. If they start saying things like, you know, You’re too sensitive. You’re too this, you’re too that there’s a problem. And it’s them. I can’t remember what song I was listening to. I think it was Ava max. And she was talking about how you might as well look in the mirror and point a little finger at yourself because maybe you’re the problem talking about them. And it’s so funny because so many of us think that we’re the problem. And we’re not. They are the problem. healthy, normal people again, do not seek to destroy other people. If they’re not getting along. If the relationship isn’t working out. You have the hard talk; hey, this isn’t working out. You know, I wish you the best good luck. God bless, and you part company, and you don’t have any more to do with each other. With a narcissist. They continually sail back in and sail back in and sail back in, and it’s so hard to heal when you’re still in the environment in which you are being damaged. So, I wanted to talk about ways in which to save yourself

10:00

So Okay, first of all is acknowledging that you’re in an abusive relationship. Second of all, is not acknowledging it’s not you, it’s them. It really honest to God is! Healthy, normal people don’t seek to destroy other people, we just don’t. It’s like, it’s not like competition people, I want everybody to win, you know, that they’re very much in a competition, they’re very much into put downs, harm, hurt, etc, etc, etc.

Okay, so let’s talk about 19 critical ways to save you. And this is by Leon Seltzer PhD. Okay, so he talks about, stop assuming the past dysfunctional programming, from your family represents who you really are. And that’s huge. So, number one is recognizing Yeah, we’re in a dysfunctional relationship. The number two thing is, especially if it’s coming from a family, family of origin. What do families of origin love to do? They love to lie to us. They love to lie to us, and they love to engage in drama and chaos. And something I’ve heard in this was in my own family as well. Oh, all families are dysfunctional? No, they’re not. Oh, all families do this. Oh, all families have drama. Oh, all families. Well, all families may have drama, but they don’t have the entire you know, Vic Old Vic Theatre showing up in the house every single day, you know what I’m saying. So, um, so all families lie, all families cheat, all…. So that is something that abusers say if you hear a blanket statement like that, that is something that they say to get us to normalize the abuse. So, we got to stop normalizing the abuse. And that can be very challenging when we haven’t had role models to show us what healthy is. So, my thing is find role models, whether they’re in reality, or if they’re on a movie, or a book, or somebody that you admire, you know, it’s like, look for healthier role models, until you can surround yourself with healthy people. So okay, so you are not doomed to be whoever your family said you are. And, and this is one of the ways that we save ourselves is that we recognize the lie now when we start recognizing the lie. That is when the abusers really go after us and really do the whole scapegoat thing, and how dare you see the pink elephant and I don’t want you to see the pink elephant and go back to your role. They want us in those neat little boxes that they can manipulate, control, etc, etc.

So, we also get stuck with… our family does a lot of sabotaging and they do the whole well, you can’t do that. You can’t become a teacher; you can’t do that. You know you can’t go to college, you can’t, you know, whatever it is you want to become a mechanic, you can’t do whatever it is you want to do. They put limitations on his romantic partners, we’ll do that as well. You know, if you suddenly if you’re with an abuser, and you suddenly decide you want to better yourself, and you want to do something different, and you want to maybe go to college or take up a trade or, you know, do something, you know, go socialize or do so. Oh, you can’t do that. Oh, you’re not; you’re not meant for that. You’re not good at it. Right? I’ll tell you what. The second somebody tells me I can’t do something. That’s when the middle fingers come flying out. And I go try it. Absolutely separate bungee jumping. I won’t. Or parachuting. I don’t see the point in jumping out of a perfectly good plane. But anyway, the point being is if somebody says, you know, you can’t, you got to, you got to serve Lea, wait a minute, I can they don’t want me to let’s call it what it is, right? I can do this. They just don’t want me to. Hmm. Interesting. Why? What is up with that? Right? So, you start questioning all of the cans and shouldn’t and, you know, things like that. It’s like, were they being said out of concern? Or were they being said out of I want to keep you in your nice neat little box that I can control. So that is something to think about. So, we do get these self-defeating thoughts, but they come directly from the family of origin. Oh, I can’t do that. Oh, I can’t do that. No, stop. This is not about them. It is now about you. What do you want? What do you want? Not what they want. Not what makes them comfortable? Because, remember, growth is uncomfortable. It is. When you’re learning something new, you’re doing something new, you’re going somewhere new. It’s always uncomfortable, and what do abusers hate more than anything else change and what do they really hate is you growing, so they will do anything they can to keep you stuck.

So, are you stopping yourself by just repeating the can’ts and shouldn’ts? Right, so it’s kind of the flip side of perfectionism, so the perfection is it perfectionism is I have to be perfect. This one is don’t even try, right? So, you want to get rid of both of those. You want to get rid of both of those because the perfectionism stops us but also, you can’t even try stops us. So, this is where we come in and save ourselves by getting rid of the you can’t you shouldn’t the fear, it’s a lot of fear. And it’s not even ours. It’s not even ours.

Okay, hold on. break free of your belittling habits of self-criticism, this is another way to save yourself. So, our abusers not only tell us you can’t ,you can’t, you can’t, you can’t or you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t. They will then sit there and tell us we’re stupid. That were you know, not you know, you physically can’t do that; you’re a guy or you’re a girl, you shouldn’t do that. Oh my god. Yeah, the gender stuff just drives me crazy. Oh, well, you’re a guy. So, you can’t become a therapist. What? No, therapy needs more men. Thank you very much. You know, or you’re a woman, you can’t become an astronaut. You know, I got that when I was growing up because I grew up in the 60s and 70s. So, it was this whole, you know, you can’t do it because of your sex, or you can’t do it because, you know, you’re not whatever. So, they’re talking about themselves when abusers predict your doom. They are speaking of themselves? They are they absolutely would anyone predict your do; they are talking about their experience and them and their limitations, and their BS going off in their heads has nothing to do with you. But as kids and as a romantic partners, or as maybe an employee, if we haven’t done the work on self-esteem and really gotten a strong grasp of who we are, we tend to believe them. Because either they’re adults, they’re our parents, or they’re an authority figure, or they’re our romantic partner, and we’ve trusted them, and we believe what they say. So, it’s really going to be a lot of challenging, challenging the thoughts challenging what’s being said to you? Is this me, or is this them, kind of thing. And it’s much easier to do. Again, once you’re out of the abusive situation, if you’re still in the abuse, you still got the abuse incoming. And you’re trying to challenge it and tread water and keep your nose above water and keep who you are. And what they want to do is they want to push your head under and make you drown, so you don’t know who you are.

So okay, so getting rid of the inner critic. Really, really important, getting rid of the criticism, getting rid of the, you know, not good enough. So that is what they excel in is nothing we do is good enough. And we integrate that inner critic into our heads, and oh my gosh, that person who told us that, just it just flies out. So, it’s really important to challenge what is being said a challenge. Who is saying it? What is their game? What do they want? When you’re away from the relationship, it’s a lot easier to kind of see the forest through the trees kind of thing. Because if you’re in the middle of it, it’s all… they like to throw so much at the wall to see what will stick, and it gets confusing. And that’s why we get the fog. That’s why we get the cognitive dissonance, and all of the best advice I can give is get the hell out. Get the hell out no matter what situation you are in, if it’s an abusive boss if it’s an abusive family if it’s an abusive relationship. Get the hell out, get some space, get some distance, because then you’re going to start seeing all this stuff, and it’s going to be like glaring, it’s kind of like what’s something has been seen it cannot be unseen kind of thing. And I want to give some comfort, too because it takes on average seven times leaving for it to stick, so do not beat yourself up. If you’ve left and then gone back and then left and then gone back. Because for some reason, it takes about seven times before our brains finally go click click, click, click, click Oh, you know, and oh, I need to get out, and I need to stay out. So. So there is that okay, so inner critic has got to be kiboshed. It’s got to be. It’s got to be taken care of it’s got to be put away.

19:2

It’s got to be done with it’s got to be dealt with. So Inner Child Workbook by Catherine Taylor is going to be huge or the Inner Child Workbook by Lucia Cappacchione in dealing with this particular stuff.

Again, you’re saving yourself you’re doing the work. Even if you cannot afford a therapist, get those books, start working them, you know, and then when you can afford a therapist, then you’re going to want to get a therapist and start working on that. And the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. He has a whole section in there on your self-worth what is your worth? Do you understand you have value and worth just doing nothing because especially narcissistic families love to do that whole will you only worth something if you’re working or if you’re producing or if you’re you know, you have value and worth just sitting here you have value and worth. And I know a lot of people are like, no I don’t Self-Esteem Workbook, mirror work. Hi, good to see you have a great day, I give you permission to tell that inner critic to go pound sand and challenge it to wait, you know, that kind of thing. So, I want you to work on that. Okay?

20:29

No, no more putting yourself down. No more self-criticism, catch yourself when you’re doing that. That is how you save yourself. Because you want that inner critic to become the inner cheerleader. So instead of not getting a negative, negative, you want it to be like, Hey, good job. I like you. Yep, you look good. Keep going. You know, that’s what you want. And eventually, you do that enough, the inner critic shuts the hell up. And if it does pop up, it’s so clear. It’s like, whoa, haven’t heard that in a long time. Thanks for playing. Bye, bye. Do you see where I’m going with that?

So, okay. Reassess your assumptions about how the world operates. And consequently, how you need to function in it. Oh, Kay. So, this is going to be dealing with fight-flight freeze or fawn, it’s going to be dealing with what we tell ourselves about who we are in this world.

21:25

And it’s going to be dealing with changing how we relate to other people; it also has to do with trust. So, when we come from an abusive relationship, we have a lot of mistaken thoughts, a lot of mistaken beliefs about how the world really is okay. So, if we have a controlling family that is filled our heads full of nonsense that the world is absolutely not safe, and you can’t go anywhere, and you can’t do this, and no, no, no, no, no, you know, that kind of thing. We’re going to go out into the world being terrified, right? Well, is the world dangerous? Yeah, can be absolutely. And however, if you use a little bit of common sense, you can pretty much stay fairly safe, you know what I’m saying? So, you know, it’s just a matter of dealing with the irrational thoughts. So, again, Glenn Schiraldi, in his book, what are your automatic thoughts? What are you telling yourself on a daily basis about yourself, about the world, about, you know, who you are, what you want, you know, what are those automatic thoughts, and what’s the rational challenge to them, that’s what you want to do. So, um, so it’s, it’s working on those assumptions.

Now, trust, we’re not going to have a lot of trust coming into freedom from an abusive relationship because what we’ve known is family of origin and or abusive, romantic relationship. And so that trust is going to need to be worked on, but the first person you need to start trusting is yourself. It’s your gut. Trust your gut, do not listen to the head and the heart. The head and the heart tell stories all the time. The gut will never steer you wrong. So, you got to start working on trusting your gut instinct, you know, that little feeling where you’re like, oh, I shouldn’t go down that roadway right now. Trust it, even though it feels weird and irrational. Trust it. I can’t tell you the number of times where it’s like, I was going to turn onto a freeway, and I was like, no, I’m going to take surface streets, and then I find out there was a huge accident. So, trust that little, you know, oh, you know, that little feeling of maybe I shouldn’t do that. Trust it. It does not lie to you. The head and the heart lie. They tell stories that the gut never does. Listen to your gut. It’ll be your best friend.

Okay, so reassess the assumptions of how the world operates. The world is not always kind, for sure. But it’s always it’s not also always evil either. It’s kind of like, you’ve got to realize everybody’s different. But remember, when we’re dealing with a narcissist, everyone has to be the same. So, it’s challenging all of those thoughts. So, in a, in a narcissistic family unit, if anyone disagrees, oh my god, it’s World War three. How dare you think differently for me? How dare you do things differently? How dare you….ba,ba,ba,ba,ba. So, it’s, it’s really starting to challenge that? Do I really have to think like everybody else? How about I think for myself, there we go. How about I go do my own thing? How about I go explore something I’ve never explored before, you know, so it’s going to be really doing that, um, it’s really essential to reconsider what once felt threatening, fearsome or overwhelming because of our family of origin or because of that romantic relationship. So, baby steps, you’re not going to challenge. You’re not going to, you know, like, overcome all of them in a day. But pick one, pick one thing and do that. So, for example, when I went backpacking as a teenager through, well as a young adult, through Europe, I decided I wanted to go to East Berlin. Now, this is when the wall was still up. And it was still a communist country and the whole thing. And, of course, the last thing my mom said to me before I left was don’t go to any communist countries, I crossed my fingers and went “uh huh”.

25:17

And then as soon as I got over there, it was like, train schedule. Oh, look, Berlin, fabulous. And I went, and it was great. I’m glad I did it, you know, I’m so, and it was terrifying. I got to tell you, it was terrifying because it was like, I’m going against everything that mom and dad said, and, you know, the whole thing. And it was very rewarding that I did. And that was kind of like that first little taste of success, challenging their mistaken thoughts. And it was just it just snowballed from there. So, you know, so baby steps, though, pick one, don’t try to do all of them at once, because it’s going to overwhelm you. Okay?

Stop putting yourself under constant pressure to perform. So, honestly, in a lot of narcissistic families, it’s like, you better make me look good. That was my dad. You better, Lord, get a good-paying job and take care of us or marry a doctor. Dear Lord, you know, or, you know, things like that, you know? And it’s like, no, I’m sorry, no, I’m, or you better become a lawyer. Okay, so that was another thing. There were eight generations of lawyers in my family. My father, you know, wanted somebody to take it over. But he didn’t have anyone to take it over. And so, he was always pushing to have somebody carry on the name and the law and the firm and the way, you know, and it’s like, no, sorry, nobody’s interested, we see how miserable you are. So no, thank you. You know, so, and of course, he was sexist and misogynistic and everything else. And he didn’t want females being a lawyer. And he put down my brother so hard, I don’t think my brother could have done it, even if he could have wanted to be a lawyer. So, um, you know, so it’s like, it’s not okay, in narcissistic families to, you know, have your own wants, your own needs, your own desires, your own. They want everybody, again, to fit in that neat little box. So, you’ve got to start really challenging that.

Okay, um, are you your own super harsh taskmaster? Or drill sergeant? Yeah, absolutely. Because narcissists do not ever want us to relax, or rest or be satisfied, because they’re not, they can’t stand it when they see somebody relaxing or being satisfied or happy. They can’t stand it because they can’t feel it, and they can’t do it themselves. So, it’s constant, you know, and we internalize this, you know, taskmaster, drill sergeant, do this now. It’s got to be perfect. I’ve got to clean. I’ve got to, you know, I have this list of 20 things I need to do. And if I don’t do all of them, I’m a horrible person stop. If you do one of them, you’re great. If you do none of them, you’re great. Seriously. So, start working on that, sending that taskmaster, that drill sergeant, tell them to go pound sand. It’s not you, it’s them. Save yourself. This is not even your stuff. And a lot of people, when they come out of the relationships or out of the family of origin, they’re like, oh, no, this is something I’ve always done. I’m like, you popped out of your womb being a taskmaster. I don’t think so. No, you didn’t. This was learned this is a learned behavior. So, if it can be learned, he can be unlearned and replaced with healthier behavior. So, start working on that. Hang on.

Give up extravagant longings and grandiose aspirations that cannot do anything and ensure defeat, okay.

28:48

Abusers set up their kids to fail. They do 110%. So, if you judge a fish by will how well it climbs a tree, it will always fail. And that is what abusers do to their kid. They make sure that they push them to do the very thing that they’re not suited for. So, in this happened in my family, as well with the whole lawyer thing, right, my brother, amazing mechanic, he could, he’s a MacGyver, he could fix anything seriously. But my dad was always like, academic, academic, academic, academic. And so, the kid never was good enough. And in fact, when my dad died, that’s the one thing that my brother said is that you know, its game overall. Now he’ll know I’ll never get his approval, you know, and it was true, you know, no matter how hard that kid tried, even though he’s my older brother, no matter how hard that kid tried, he was never good enough, ever. So, they set us up for failure. So, be aware of what is your aspiration. And what is their aspiration? And does it fit you? Is this really what you want? Is this really what you want to do? Now, my dad tried to push me into becoming a hairdresser. And a secretary, you know, it was like, Oh, well, that’s all you’re good for. You’re not smart enough to do anything else. Oh my god. So, you know, and it’s like, no, that’s not what I want to do. I’ve got bigger plans than that. Thanks for playing. So, you’ve got to really kind of assess what’s the agenda? What is, what is their game? What do they get out of it by keeping you down? Okay, we’re going to go a little bit over time because I want to make sure to hit all of these.

Contest, the non-deserving beliefs that have prompted you to sabotage yourself to repeatedly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. So, again, we tend to self-sabotage the cause of the message is that it’s not okay for us to succeed. And where does that come from? Inner Child because the inner child was trying to please the parent that kept wanting us to do whatever they wanted us to do. And if we go to do something else, and we’re successful at it, and we finally find ourselves sabotaging, I can guarantee you it’s the inner child. So, start working on the inner child workbook, get that self-saboteur handled seriously. Okay, hold on.

Put a halt to worrying, ruminating, or catastrophizing. So, you’re not going to put a halt to it. Let me just be clear here. We’re always going to worry, ruminate and catastrophize. But I give your give yourself two minutes to do it and then stop. So, the thoughts going to pop up. So, when the worrying or the ruminating pops up or the catastrophizing. What if? Okay, stop. Thank you. I hear you. I see you. I am not playing with you. You are not coming in for coffee. Good. You’re going to stay for breakfast. No, thank you, Buh bye, go pound sand. What if we’re always living in what if we’re always living in the future? If we’re always living in the future, we are depressed if we’re ruminating, we’re thinking about the past, which cannot be changed. Which means we’re always wait; did I say depressed? Anxious? Sorry, backwards. So, if you’re living in what if it’s anxious, if you’re living in the past, it’s depression. And it’s not in this moment. So that’s another way to save ourselves is to stay in this present moment. You can acknowledge the thought, absolutely. I hear you; I see you what if I hear and I see you regrets and past and things like that, and I’m not playing with you, goodbye. I’m going to stay in the here and the now. I love myself; I’ve done the best I can. And that is it with me good enough. Good enough. So, practice doing that. That is how you save yourself seriously, challenging these thoughts, challenging these thoughts and replacing them with either the logical challenge to them or with the polar opposite of whatever they have said, Okay.

32:42

At every opportunity, seek to prove yourself that you’re safer than you feel. Okay. And this is so true. When we leave an abusive relationship, the world feels incredibly dangerous. So, it and it also feels incredibly lonely because we’re starting to get rid of those toxic friends, those toxic family members, that whole thing. It is safer than it feels it is, and you’re going to have to self-soothe. So that has, again, a lot to do with mirror work Hi, good to see you have a great day. You know what you’re safer than you feel. And it’s okay, then you walk out. So, it’s really parenting, you must become your own parent. You must become that so often not heard soft, wonderful voice that we didn’t get in childhood. So, if we had parents that were harsh, critical, mean, narcissistic, abusive, alcoholic, drug addicts, etc. We didn’t get that soft Hey, it’s okay. Hey, you’re all right. This is It’s okay. You’re safer than you feel. It’s all right. You know that encouragement. So, I encourage you to encourage yourself seriously, it’s like give yourself encouragement. That little inner child needs encouragement. Okay.

And this is for people, whether they’ve been out of the relationship years or if they’ve just left it. We all need to do a check-in and make sure that we’re doing these things to keep ourselves moving forward. All right. Recognize your residual regrets for what they are a mental exercise in futility. We’ve done the best we could forgive yourself. Forgive yourself so Radical Self Forgiveness by Collin Tipping great book. And if you’re having difficulty with difficult people in your lives, Radical Forgiveness also by Collin Tipping, and by no means you don’t need to forgive people. Let me be very clear, but you do need to forgive yourself. But you don’t have to forgive your abuser. You know, it’s a fallacy and a myth to be like, oh, you can’t heal unless you’re forgiving. Where’s my middle finger, seriously? No if you want to great! If you don’t, also great, it’s okay.

34:49

As long as you’re not staying mad at them as a way to keep them close to you, which is what I found. I did it was like this huge amount of anger even though my dad was dead because I wanted to fix so, and for some reason, my little inner child thought if I could just stay mad at him and fix that, then he would be okay. I would be okay. But you know, thankfully, I had a good therapist, and we worked through that. So. So yeah, you don’t have to forgive them if you don’t want to. But also make sure that you’re not holding them to you with the anger trying to fix them. So, there is that. Forgive yourself for the past mistakes or past missteps. We all make mistakes, everybody’s due to stinks. I’ve made mistakes. Other people have made mistakes. I’m sure you’ve made mistakes. Forgive yourself. Make sure it doesn’t happen again. What can you do differently, make amends if you need to, or if you can, and then move on. Forgive yourself. One thing I’ve noticed about all abusers is they are the nastiest, least forgiving, most judgmental, harshest harming people on the face of the planet. And we kind of internalize that. And so, when we make a mistake, it’s like we rub our own noses in it, no, stop. We’re going to make mistakes, mistakes are going to be made, you know, figure out how to do it differently. Make amends where you can move on, forgive yourself.

Reassess your likely exaggerated feelings of guilt. So, one thing that they do, and I love that Kim taught me this one, Bs Fogg blame, shame, fear, obligation and guilt. I am forever going to be using that. So, they make us feel guilty. You know, if we don’t take care of them in old age, what do they do? Oh, you’re horrible son, you’re horrible daughter. And remember, you know, old age homes are filled with collapsing nurses. So, do you have something to feel guilty about? No, you’re under no obligation to take care of somebody who is an abuser and who will blow your home up and disturb your own peace. No. So look at the guilt. But don’t allow it in, you know, is this something I need to feel guilty for? And if I need to feel guilty, is that I need to feel guilty so that this person will forgive me and love me, or do I need to feel guilty because I need to make amends, or do I? Am I just feeling guilty because that’s what I’ve been trained to do my entire life? You mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, my fault, my fault, all my fault. Narcissists love to blame shame, guilt trip the whole thing. So, if it’s a mea culpa thing that’s been learned, you need to unlearn it. It’s like, no, not everything on the face of the planet is my fault. My dad used to tell me if I didn’t finish everything on my plate, it was my fault that there were starving children in China or India or Ethiopia, or wherever was having a drought and starvation at that time. Took me years to figure out that my eating the food was not going to help them. Ah, bad parenting at its finest. So yeah, you want to definitely take a look at the guilt and really work it through. And if you need to write the guilt a go pound sand letter, dear guilt, no more no mas, not going to do it. Thank you for playing bye.

Now. There’s guilt when we do something that needs making amends for, but we know the difference of that if there’s something that we’ve done and we need to make amends. Okay, you make amends, you forgive yourself, and you move on. But if it keeps coming up and keeps coming up and keeps coming up, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, who’s whose is that? Who’s, whose punishment is that it’s not yours? So, take a look at that. Okay, we’ve gone over time, but I’m going to keep going because I want to get this done. Okay, um, Let go of any longstanding anger and resentment I talked about that. Examine the rationality of your issues relating to trust talked about that. So, we do have a reason to not trust and it’s going to be a matter of boundaries. So, the disease please by Harry Braiker, other books on boundaries, I would recommend reading them once our boundaries are tight, then, you know, we have our list of deal breakers and if somebody crosses that, okay, they’re not they’re not trustworthy, you push them out of your life. So, but if they’re not breaking into the deal breakers and they’re respecting your boundaries, then you’re probably okay. So, but that does not mean your guard is not always going to be up Yeah, your guards probably always going to be up because what is one of the signs of PTSD, CPTSD is hyper vigilance. So yeah, it’s a work in progress. That’s really what it is. Don’t blame or shame yourself for your not yet overcome addictive habits. Well, okay.

39:29

I myself drank too much because my family hello and of course, I come from a long line of alcoholics. Thank you very much. So instead of beating yourself up, take a look at it. You know, if you come from a narcissistic family and abusive family, we’re trying to numb ourselves now that does not give you carte blanche to go out and keep using let me be clear, so but it is kind of like Uh huh. How much am I drinking? How much am I smoking? How much am I, you know, numbing myself artificially? What am I doing? Or maybe, you know, even just, you know, checking out and not really dealing with reality, get with a good therapist, don’t beat yourself up, but also don’t continue to do self-harm. Does that make sense? And we do. A lot of us come out of these relationships wanting to numb, wanting to numb, or having been numb because it’s just been so awful. So, you know, it’s kind of like, it is as horrible as you thought it was, it was it was as horrible as you thought it was. And it’s okay for you to start working on becoming clean and sober. And it’s okay for you just start dealing with the issues that got you using in the first place. So yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of times when people come out of abusive relationships, and they have an alcohol issue, or drug issue, or smoking, or vaping, or whatever it is they’re doing, it’s self-harming, they beat themselves up on top of that, and then it becomes this, like, this vicious cycle, you know, it’s like, well, I’m doing this because of that, and I feel awful because now I’m dealing with it. And now I’m going to go do it again. And it’s kind of like you got to realize, if we are doing things that are self-harming, that is only playing their game, that is only playing their game, the best middle finger you can give to abusers. Get clean, get sober, take good care of yourself, be gentle with you. And don’t beat yourself up. We do not pop out of the womb going gee; I’d really like to be an alcoholic or drug addict. We don’t we become that when life circumstances, such as abuse, make it impossible for us to deal with whatever is going on in that moment. So especially if the abuse is incest or beatings or verbal abuse, or you know, any of that, that’s enough to cause a lot of people to start using. So, it is what it is, get to a meeting, get a sponsor, get clean, get sober, gentle with you. There’s a reason we start using. There’s a reason so especially coming out of abusive relationships. So, all right, there is that!

Um, Stop taking things. So personally take it in, but do not take it on. So, I posted a thing from Brene Brown. And I’m going to have to answer a lot of these questions in the Wednesday because I’m going to go long, sorry. Um, and she talked about, you know, when somebody says something horrible and awful to you about you don’t take it, and you know, cuddle with it and rub it all over you. It’s like, no, it’s like recognize this has nothing to do with you. This has everything to do with them.

42:43

You know, so don’t take it personally. It’s really, It’s discernment. It’s like, is this really about you? Probably not. So, take it in. But don’t take it on, you know, you can play with it. But don’t take it personally. Because abusers will say, the most heinous… some of the things my dad said to me, I’m just like, Are you human? What is going on here? And it was all about him. It wasn’t about me; it was about him.

So, stop comparing yourself to others. This is not a competition, but abusers make it a competition. Everything’s competition. They have to win. They have to be the best or the worst, whatever the most, whatever. And that’s not normal. That’s not normal. So, stop comparing yourself to others. Other people have not had the same experience you have; some people are worse off. Some people are better off. Your experience is unique to you. And it is okay. It’s okay. It’s not a competition. So anytime you hear that, oh, well, but other people had it worse. No, stop. What I had was bad. And it’s my experience. And go pound sand. Thank you. So, there’s that.

Stop sacrificing your integrity, dignity, or pride just to ensure that people will like you. People pleasing. So again, Harriet breaker, the disease to please. So, we do that. We say yes. When we mean no, you know, and we’ve got to learn to start saying yes to ourselves and no to other people. Does that make sense? Appropriately.

44:13

Stop depending on others to calm you down or validate you. So, it is your task to calm yourself down. And to validate yourself. Happiness is an inside job; you’re not going to find it hitting the dating sites. You’re not, and I can’t tell you the number of clients I’ve had over the years that will come out of one of these relationships horrific not dealing with the stuff that’s gone on in the family of origin, not really dealing with what went on with the abuser. And they’re like, I need to get into another relationship. And I’m like, like hell you do. Oh, you’re not whatever you’re looking for out here. You’re not going to find if you cannot find it in here. Let me say that again. Whatever you’re looking for out here, you’re not going to find it until you find it in here. So, it’s an inside job. So, you’ve got to take care of yourself, you’ve got to deal with the family of origin. You’ve got to deal with the abuser. And you’ve got to work on not why it happened. But who, what, when, where, you know, why is never going to be answered. But who, what, when, where, yeah, that will be answered. So that’s what would serve you the most.

Learn to accept every part of you, unflattering warts and all. So, when we are in an abusive relationship with family with the romantic partner, they dearly love to tell us how ugly we are, or point out our flaws or, you know, tell us we’re fat when we’re not. That’s a favorite one. Or tell us we’re, you know, lacking or this or that or whatever. So, accept yourself, love yourself. This amazing body gets us through life. It allows us to experience amazing things and to see amazing things and hear amazing things and go to amazing places and visit with amazing people and, you know, all sorts of cool stuff. So, really, again, to give the middle finger to the abusers, love your body, love yourself. You know, one thing that they love to also do is tell people Oh, well, you know, You’re too sensitive. Love your sensitivity, love your sensitivity. That means you’re human, that means you can feel, and they can’t. Or, you know, you laugh too much. Thank God because if I wasn’t laughing, I’d be crying. So, I’d rather laugh. Thank you. You know, it’s like, enjoy who you are. Because they don’t, they can’t enjoy who they are. And God forbid we enjoy who we are. So, it’s really important for you to really start accepting, accepting, accepting self-acceptance, Radical Acceptance, Tara Brach, you know, Radical Self-Forgiveness, Colin Tipping. This body is amazing. You are amazing. Your mind is amazing. Your humor is amazing. Your ability to love is amazing. Your ability to feel is amazing. So, allow, allow, allow, allow. Okay, now, let’s get to the questions. Okay. To do Sorry, I went a little long, um,

When I try to guide myself to healthy behavior. I don’t believe myself, because I’ve had to play games with myself to get through all of the abuse. How do I start trusting myself? Okay.

47:32

So, trusting yourself, I would say start working on the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. All the people who know themselves trust themselves. So, when you start realizing who you really are, separate from what the abusers told you, you were, you’re going to start trusting yourself. Because it’s kind of like there’s this, like, disconnect with us, you know, we get out of these relationships. And they’ve told us all of this, but we feel all of that. And these don’t match, but we keep telling ourselves with an inner critic, all the negative stuff. So, it’s really important to start working on the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, recognize your worth, start really honoring what you want, who you are, what you feel, and do the workbook front to back, take your time, and really chew through it like a gourmet meal don’t blast through. It drives me crazy when people are like, oh, yeah, I finished it. And they’ve had it for a week. I’m like, this is supposed to take at least three to six months. So yeah, take your time, you know, and really work through it. So that’s the way to start learning how to trust yourself as learning who you are. Because we come out of these relationships, whether they’re parental or whether they’re romantic, and we’ve lost who we are we. Who am I? What do I like we’re where am I? What am I doing? Why am I here? Seriously. So, it’s really important to get back to learning who you are, trusting who you are, and then starting to trust others out of that. Okay. Hope that answers the question.

Okay, um, do narc parents hinder their child’s learning? Yes, so they can infantilize the child. Yes. And make them dumb as a way to seek attention for themselves. Absolutely. It’s almost like Munchausen by proxy. So, they got so many of these Jack wagons will claim that their kids have got ADHD or autism or something else, and they start throwing meds at them. Little brains should not have medication unless it’s absolutely necessary until they are in their Ooh, late teens at the earliest. Because the brain is still developing. And they will then point to that, oh, my child is got this disorder or that disorder when in fact, the child doesn’t. They just found a psychiatrist that would prescribe, you know, and now the kid is all jacked up on medications that’s messing with their mind. So, yeah, they absolutely will do that. You betcha. They love to infantilize their children. That is something else I’ve seen. So, it’s they give them this ridiculous, you know, you have to be this academician, which is what my dad did. Or they do the whole dumbing the kid down, not allowing them to be smart, not allowing them to explore, you know, not allowing them to do things for themselves, not teaching them how to cook, or do their own laundry, or, you know, balance a checking account or checking account, you know, what I mean? Debit account, whatever. So, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s like, so they do that, they hobble them, they hobble them so that they’re always dependent on them. So, it looks like this is sort of like this healthy, normal parents want their kids to be on their own feet. Unhealthy parents want their kid leaning on them their whole lives. But then you know what happens if that parent dies, that kid is lost. Like they don’t know how to adult, they don’t know how to function. They don’t know how to socialize, they don’t know how to, and yeah, they absolutely do that. And it’s abuse. It’s absolutely it is absolutely abuse. You betcha.

Okay. Um, how can we let go of the stubborn lingering wish that someone else will save us. okay, that is the inner child.

51:19

And it’s totally normal wish guys totally normally not bad or wrong for that you’re not. So, it’s the inner child. So, the way to let go of it is to start working through the inner child workbook seriously, and re-parenting yourself. Meaning you’re going to start talking to yourself with kindness the way your parents should have. You’re going to give yourself pep talks in the morning. Hi, good to see you have a great day. I give you permission to save yourself. It’s okay, you are your own hero. Go do it. You got this, you know, and then walk out. So, it and then remind yourself at night, same thing you do a daytime, you know, pep talk, and then at night, you do the Hey, good to see you. Again, here are three things I did write today. And you list them off because abusers never tell us what we did, right? And then we learn to sit there at night staring at the ceiling, going, oh my god, I did this wrong. I should have done that. And I could have done that. No. Three things you did right today.

52:15

You know, we’ll have a good night’s sleep tight, love you good night, and then go to bed, you know, the way a good parent would have. So, re-parenting yourself, working on the self-esteem working on the inner child. Having chats with that inner child, you can do guided imagery, speaking to that part of you that wants to be saved. Hey, little one. There’s nobody outside of us. It’s going to save us, but I am here. I’ve got your back. I am going to save us, and here’s what needs to happen. You need to let me be the adult, and I will take care of you to see where I’m going with that. So that should help with that inner child desire to be saved because we all do. We all have that thought, you know. It’s like I used to pretend that my parents were aliens.

53:06

They were just so crazy. Aliens. They were just so crazy. Seriously, and I keep kept thinking it’s like, well, maybe some year they’ll come back from wherever they are outer space, my real parents will come back, and these bozos will go away. You know, and so it is there’s that childish or that not childish, but childlike desire to be saved. We all have it. We all have it, you know, and it’s a matter of talking to that little that little one. Your parents are not aliens. They’re just jerks. And they’re your real parents are the jerks that you’re having to deal with. And you get to save yourself, you know, and it’s okay. You’re safe. And I’ve got you, and I’m right here. So, you talk to your little one as if you were your own parent. Does that make sense? Re-parenting yourself the way you should have been parented. You know, with truth, with love, with kindness, with patience. You know, narcissists are not patient, they’re mean, and they’re like, now now now now now, you know, and again, being rushed and not liking being rushed is a trauma response because almost all of us were rushed or made wrong or whatever. So, there is that. Um, so Inner Child Workbook, either by Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor, Self-Esteem Workbook, by Glenn Schiraldi, that would be great.

Is it common after lifelong narc abuse that you don’t want others to save you? But instead, you want to do it all yourself and kind of stop relying on others? Yes, that is a trauma response. Absolutely. So, both of these two are trauma responses, wanting to be saved as a trauma response. Get getting the attitude of I’ll do my own damn self. That is also a trauma response. Absolutely. We have an incredibly difficult time asking for help. We do, some of us. Some of us have an incredibly difficult time asking for help. That is a trauma response. So, both of these are trauma responses wanting to be saved as a trauma response. Yes, and I’ll do my own damn self is also a trauma response because we learned quickly that there was not going to be anybody there. Nobody was going to save us. No, nobody was going to do the right thing. You know, my mom knew the abuse was going on. She did nothing, you know. So, it’s like, okay, I’m on my own. Great, fabulous. How do I get out of here? You know, and then you start formulating your escape plan. So yeah, that is absolutely, is absolutely a thing that abusers do is that they create this situation where we either want to be saved, or we absolutely are like, I don’t even myself, I do miles out. So yeah, you’re not wrong, and it is a trauma response. And for those of us that have the whole, you know, I’ll do it my own cell, we have to learn to start asking for help baby steps, like baby steps with somebody we trust. Because otherwise, we’re just going to be like, See, see, see, nobody’s going to help you know, that kind of thing. So, baby steps, get with a good therapist, work on the Self-Esteem Workbook, work on the Inner Child Workbook. All that good stuff. All right. Bye, loves you guys. Have a great week. Take good care of yourselves. Drink plenty of water and stay warm, and I will talk to you next week.

56:16

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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The post 11-27-2022 You ARE Your Own Hero appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so much to talk about. So, I got to get together with Susanna Quintana because I got something up my sleeve. And I think it’s going to be fun. So, um, I want to thank all of the people that came out to Atlanta to do the meet and greet. I had so much fun with you guys, and I love talking to you. It was awesome. And while we were sitting around, the participants were like, we want you to do another cruise. And I’m like, Whoa. And then I thought, well, why don’t we do a like a retreat? And then we started talking about Key West. And then I looked at the prices, and I went, you know what, it’s actually cheaper to do a cruise than it is to do a three-day retreat. So, I know, isn’t that weird? It’s just weird. Um, so we’re going to be looking into doing a three-day cruise next December, I’m going to see if I can talk Susana into coming with me again. That would be so much fun. So, um, so next December, not this December, but December 2023. So, I’ll get a hold of the cruise line and figure out all the details. And we will start posting that as soon as, as soon as I get details, I will give you details. That would be great.

So now we’re diving into current events. And this current event is a very upsetting current event. There have been two incidences in Phoenix over this last week. And both of them are heinous. And okay, so the first one happened this later, earlier this last week. So, Jasen Hudgens decided to kill his wife and his three children because his wife wanted to divorce him. So, people knew that there had been problems in the marriage, the family and friends were like, oh, you know, we can’t we didn’t see any signs. We didn’t think that he would be dangerous, etc., etc., etc. So let me be clear, there were signs people just don’t know what to look for. And because Marla Hodgens was not exhibiting, you know, distress or fearful or anything like that. The people weren’t catching a clue. Does that make sense? So, you know, and they were like, oh, but she was so calm, and she said, everything was fine. Well, that’s what targets of abuse do. We tell everybody? It’s fine. Oh, no, it’s fine. And we minimize. Oh, no, it’s not that bad. Oh, no, it’s not it uh, and then it really is that bad. So, this person, and I use the term loosely, Jason Hudgens decided to when he found out she wanted to leave him, and they had three children. There were two twins, six months old, two little girls, and a boy. Okay, she had to do fertility stuff to get the kids she all she ever wanted to be was a mom, and all she ever wanted to be among these children were her life. She was so happy to be a mom and to have these kids. So, when he killed them, he killed the children. And everybody’s like, why would he kill the children? Well, if he’s an abuser, you know if he is as bad as I think he is, he’s going to do something to terrify his wife before he killed her. So, he killed the children. He killed her. He turned on the gas in the house. He disconnected a gas appliance let the gas just fill up the house. He also turned on propane tanks fully intending after killing himself to have the house blow up. That takes malice aforethought guys that takes premeditation that is not an impulsive act. That is not something that just oops, I decided to blow the house up. No. This is something this person thought about for months guaran-freakin-tee  it! Take that to the bank, pattern of behavior. When these dark triads when these murderers killed their victim. This is not an act of passion, okay?

And here’s something that really pissed me off is that I was as I was researching this, this event isn’t one of his friends’ coworkers, decided to go on one of the new stations and smear the victim and do victim blaming. And here’s the interesting thing. And boy, howdy you guys better pay attention to this; This guy refused to have his name published and hid his voice and you couldn’t see him. So, what does that tell you? Because the only people that smear the victim, and do it anonymously are flying monkeys and cowards, and usually disordered themselves, oh, well, he was a great guy to me, he never did. But you know, she must have done something to really get him to do something that bad. Committing filicide, is… no sane parent would do that no-good parent would ever kill her own child to get back at a spouse. No good parent would ever do that. And I’m sorry, I don’t care if she threatened to drag him through court. I don’t care if she threatened to leave him bankrupt. I don’t care if she threatened to ruin his good name or whatever was going on. There is never an excuse for killing your own children. Let me just be 110% clear about that. I have absolutely zero sympathy for him. 100% Sympathy for Marla and the kids. And whoever this friend was is a coward because they wouldn’t have their name out there. They wouldn’t be seen, and they hid their voice that tells me everything I need to know about that source. Okay, that was incident number one.

Everybody was like, Well, why, why, why? Why would he kill the children because he wanted to hurt her as much as he possibly could. Before he killed her. Healthy normal people do not commit filicide. They do not kill their own children. They do. God, you do everything you can to protect your child. That is that’s the whole point of being a parent. It’s like, you know, kid comes first. Divorce happens. kid comes first. Well-being of the child comes first. But when you’re dealing with somebody who is not normal. Their ego comes first. And they’re Me, me, me, I, more and they will kill harm, hurt maim whoever they need to keep that ego safe.

So, the house was filled up with gas. And you want to know who found the bodies? A teenage babysitter. A teenager walked into this house, saw the bodies freaked out, smelled gas ran outside called the cops. First Responders then had to come in. They were traumatized. The teenager is going to need therapy for sure. Do you think this jackass cared one whit about the damage that he’s done not just to his kids, not just to his wife, but to the people that had to find them? That is selfishness to the nth degree that is arrogance to the nth degree. How dare he? How dare he!

And now we’ve had a second incident. Same situation, domestic violence. There’d been previous domestic violence calls. Now I don’t know if there was previous domestic violence calls on this one. But there were previous domestic violence calls. There was one inch in Queen Creek, Chandler Queen Creek. And he showed up unannounced at the house. And he shot the two kids. The kids are in stable condition. Thank God! I do not know what their injuries are. And I do not know if it’s life-altering injuries if he shot them in, you know, vital areas. These kids are going to need help for the rest of their lives. The mom got away. She wasn’t harmed. He then killed himself. They’re dangerous guys. I can’t stress enough if you are divorcing a narcissist, if you are divorcing, especially a dark triad, do not minimize what they say, and do take their threats seriously! I kid you not.

Because they are crazy in that now, let me just be very clear. They are crazy in that their ego comes first, and they will do whatever it needs to feed the ego to make the ego okay. They are not crazy legally. Let’s just be clear that because in a legal definition, you need to know the difference. You need to not know the difference between right and wrong to be declared legally insane. You cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. So, Jared Loughner, who shot Gabby Giffords, he couldn’t tell the difference between right and wrong. He was so delusional he couldn’t tell. This guy, this other guy. They planned this out. They absolutely knew it was right or wrong. They knew right and wrong.

Kris Godinez  09:46

They knew what they were doing to go through the house, unplug an appliance and fill the house with gas and then open up all of the valves. Come on. They knew what they were doing, and they knew what would happen, and they didn’t give a flying rat’s ass. What would happen to the neighbors or to that teenage babysitter walking into the house. In fact, he probably felt the more people I can kill, the better because that’s what they do. If they’re going to go out, they don’t want to go out alone. They want to take as many people with them as they possibly can.

So basically, when you watch the news, when you see news reports, when you hear Flying Monkeys coming to the defense of the indefensible, there’s no excuse. I don’t care what she was doing. There was no excuse to shoot two six-month-olds, and a three-year-old. No excuse, none, zip, zero, zilch, nada. That person was clearly a flying monkey. Clearly, if they’re unwilling to give their name. If they’re a coward enough, they’re going to smear this woman and say, it was something she did to deserve this. If I could flip off the camera right now, I would; let me just be clear. So boy, there are times when I wish I could swear because I would be swearing up a blue streak right now.

So anyway, that is the current event. And what concerns me, again, is the lack of education. So, all of the family and friends, not just his friends, but her friends as well. They were like she gave no indication; she didn’t tell us how bad it was. She didn’t say anything. There were no warning signs. Well, again, you’ve got to understand when somebody is being abused, we minimize. Oh, it’s not that bad. Oh, other people have it worse. Oh, I’ll be okay. Oh, we’ll be all right. I don’t want to worry you; I don’t want to be a burden. Dear God. If somebody Okay, so basically, here’s the thing. If somebody is divorcing somebody, they’re not doing it with three small little children. They’re not doing it for no reasons. That should have been an alert right there that should have been like, okay, something’s up, something’s going on really bad for this woman to want to leave a marriage when she’s got two six months old, and a three-year-old that, the family and friends should have been rallying. And asking a bunch of questions regardless, you know, and getting her support and getting her help. But again, if they’re minimizing, if they’re, you know, and that’s what we do, that is what we do. But what I’m saying is, is that, in order for a woman to leave a marriage with small children like that, there is something serious going on. Absolutely. 110%. People don’t just leave a marriage with small children for no apparent reason. And that’s basically what the friends were saying there was like, well, there, we didn’t see anything we didn’t. Education, guys, education, education, education, I swear to God, people need to know the red flags; people need to know how targets of abuse act; this is what happened with Gabby Petito.

So again, she was upset and crying and, you know, sobbing and it’s me, it’s me, it’s me when it was Brian Landrie that was the abuser. So again, people need to look for how targets of abuse respond to abuse; they don’t respond the way you think they’re going to respond. They don’t, and we need to teach people this; we need to teach people how they act when they’re in a situation like that. And if you know somebody who is getting divorced, and they’ve got small little ones, you better be asking the questions. Are you okay? What is going on? You know, how can I help? What support do you need, you know, that kind of thing. Now, granted, this woman was a lawyer, and she’s probably seen it had seen it all, you know, and lawyers have a tendency to play their cards close to their chest, which is great in court, but it’s not great if you’re dealing with an intimate partner violence situation.

So, again, I share these videos with as many people as you can, get the podcast out to people, send them to Kim Saeed, send them to Shahida Arabi send them to Susanna Quintana. We need to educate as many people as possible because people are just not getting it. They’re not seeing the warning signs; they’re not seeing the red flags, they’re not seeing the danger. And when you’re dealing with a dark triad, if somebody is narcissistic, a psychopath, and a control freak, so they’re narcissistic, it’s all about them. They’re a psychopath rules don’t apply to them. They can do whatever they want. They really truly believe that. And they’re a control freak. You can’t leave me. You can all make sure you can’t leave me I’m going to control you. I’m going to keep you from leaving me all. I’ll do this to you. I’ll do that to you. That’s what both of these guys did. Because they couldn’t stand the fact that their target of abuse got away from them and what are they going to go after the people that the target of abuse love the most, which is their children, and in other cases, their pets. So, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, there is that is the current event I wanted to talk about it. This was intentional. This was premeditated. This was absolutely planned out and thought out well, and this was absolutely with the intention of the house blowing up probably when the babysitter walked in. So yeah, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate. Okay, sorry, there’s my rant.

Alright, so today we need to talk about the holidays and how to survive the holidays, any holiday but specifically Thanksgiving and Christmas because apparently Christmas falls on a Sunday. So, I won’t be doing a show on that Sunday. But, um, so basically, when we have to go deal with toxic family, the best suggestion, honest to God, is if you can don’t go, seriously, you owe them nothing, and oh my god, Kim yesterday told me the greatest saying she’s like, instead of just fog, it’s BS fog. And I looked at her, I was like, BS fog. And she’s like blame, shame, fear, obligation, guilt, and I went, I am so stealing that. So yeah, it’s BS Fog blame, shame, fear, obligation, and guilt. And that’s what they use to trick us into going to a family function, going to Thanksgiving, going to Christmas, you know, whatever. And don’t fall for it. You owe these people nothing, you do not owe them anything, seriously. So, the other thing that we were talking about, is, along with, you know, the guilt trip of making you go to a family function, they also do this whole thing about, oh, well, everybody’s going to do a gift. Okay, not everybody can afford even $25 gift or 25 per person, if you’ve got a huge extended family. Uh,uh, what I seriously suggest is if they’re insisting on some sort of gift, you say, okay, great, I’m going to donate in the family’s name to this particular charity; tell me what charity you want me to donate to? You know, and I’m that covers the whole family, and I’m not doing anymore, and you’ve got to stick to your, to your guns, you’ve got to really stick to your boundaries, because they’ll try to push it, they’ll try to be like, Oh, we’re going to do a white elephant or oh, we’re going to do no, ah, we know, you don’t have to, you seriously don’t have to, you can opt-out, you can say no. Or you can say I’ll donate to this charity or tell me what charity you want me to donate to, or whatever. So, I mean, I would much rather have somebody donate to a charity in my name than to buy me something that they can’t afford; I don’t want, you know what I’m saying it’s like, do something that’s going to help the world, you know what I mean? Or if you don’t want to do it, if you can’t afford it, you just hey I cannot afford this. I’m sorry. It’s that’s not happening. Sorry. And you hold your guns. So okay, I want to go through the holiday survival tips.

Kris Godinez  17:45

So, one of the main things that comes up when people end up having to go home for the holidays is that they revert, we revert, we go back to how we were in childhood. And literally, it doesn’t take very long. So literally, it can be like you’re there for two days. And then all of a sudden, you’re a seven-year-old, again, where you’re there for three days, and all of a sudden, you’re a seven-year-old again. So, you want to set a time limit. And this includes if you’re just going over for dinner. So here are some of the suggestions that I wanted to go over.

Set realistic expectations. We tend to expect more of ourselves and others and especially if we are dealing with inner child stuff, if we are dealing with that, you know, inner child desire to have the perfect Christmas, the perfect Thanksgiving, the perfect, you know, family thing. And I know that a lot of us have gone through that and continue to go through that. And it is because of the inner child stuff, wanting that perfect holiday wanting that perfect, you know, Christmas wanting the… wanting the parents to be parents wanting the cousins to be loving, wanting the siblings to be kind and civil, like, you know, like a real sister, a real brother. But the truth of the matter is, if they haven’t gotten help, if they haven’t worked on themselves, if they’re still doing the same crazy dance, they’re going to still be doing the crazy dance at Thanksgiving and Christmas. So, you got to set realistic expectations. And then the next thing you have to ask yourself is how long do you want to spend with them? Really, truly, it’s like if okay, you’ve set the realistic expectation, you know, you can’t handle them for more than a dinner, or you can’t handle them for more than a day or two. Set that boundary. You know, I’m coming in Wednesday night, I’m leaving Friday morning, you know, or whatever, whatever your boundary is set it. So, you know, John and I have kind of a built-in when we had Scotty, we had a built-in excuse we would always say oh, we got to let the dog out. We didn’t need to let the dog out; the dog was fine. But know that, so it was like, oh, no, we got to go take care of the dog. Got to go take the dog for a walk. Got to you know, we got to leave you know, or what we would do is we would be Low in have pie, spend it, you know the major dinner with somebody else, have pie with the family that was toxic, and then leave quickly. So really, you come up with things to do so, and sometimes what people will tell me or what they’ll be afraid of is they’ll be like, oh, but again, how old are you? But it’s a lie. It’s, you know, da, da, da… Look guys self-preservation, if you have to make a white lie to get out of dealing with toxic Aunt Bertha, then do it, you’re, you owe them nothing. Nothing, you owe them nothing. And they’ll try to make you feel like you owe them, but you do, not you do not.

Okay, hold on, I want to get back to the tips. Hang on. Okay, and this is from Andre associates. How to enjoy the holidays, even with toxic relatives, know your limits. So, know how long you can handle it know how long you can stay, and discuss the possibilities and responsibilities with your partner. It’s like, okay, well, what are we willing to put up with? What are we not willing to put up with? How long can we stay? You know, how? How much of a conversation that’s not healthy? Can we deal with, you know, that kind of thing.

Deflect and diffuse. So uncomfortable subjects will be brought up by toxic family members, you can guarantee it one of the top ones that couples have to deal with is when are you having the baby? When are you going to be pregnant? When are you going to give? When are you going to give us grandchildren? That’s what’s something that John and I had to deal with in our early marriage all the time. And so, I would just be a smartass and be like, well, you have grandchildren, they’re furry, and they bark and meow you know, and that usually people would laugh, and the conversation would go on. Or the other thing you can say is if you don’t want to be a smart aleck, is that you can say, you know what, when that happens, you’ll be the first to know, what can they say to that? Nothing. And of course, if you’ve chosen not to have children, that will never happen. So, if they bring up, say, for example, politics, you know, or religion, and we even talked a little bit about this last week, if they bring up a topic, you don’t want to be a part of excuse yourself and go to the bathroom. You know, excuse yourself and go get a cup of coffee, excuse yourself and go to the kitchen, excuse yourself and leave. You don’t have to stick around. You don’t you know? You just don’t. You don’t owe them your opinion. You know, you don’t have to say anything. You’re under no obligation because, trust me in toxic families, anything you say, can and will be used against you. Trust me on that one. So, you want to keep it surface-level. Hey, how about them Dodgers? You know, seriously, you just want to keep it surface level. That type of thing. Okay, so back to how to enjoy the holidays, and remain an adult. It is not uncommon common to regress to old childhood patterns. When you spend time with your family of origin. Negative emotions will surface try to be aware of this tendency if you catch yourself slipping back into those childhood roles. That’s a really great time to just go outside and get some fresh air. And really kind of go okay, how old am I right now? Okay, there you go. It’s, like I said, it’s very common for us to slip into the rolls, you know, and you don’t want to do that you don’t. So gentle with you gentle with you.

So, leading up to Thanksgiving. So here we are on Sunday. So, Thanksgiving will be Thursday; it would probably be a really good idea to kind of have a chat with your inner child; I kid you not. It’s like if you have to go be with toxic family members. Have a chat with your inner child. Okay, little one, we’re going to go home. But here’s the deal. You don’t have to say anything; you don’t owe them an explanation. You don’t have to defend yourself because it’s usually how we find ourselves being with toxic family members, as they say something just outrageously stupid or outrageously ridiculous or rude or whatever. And then we find ourselves engaging, do not engage, don’t do it. It won’t do any good. It won’t do any good. They literally know is not the time to point out to them that they are toxic, disordered, egotistical, arrogant; whatever the issue is, now is not the time now is not the time never is going to be the time they’re not going to hear you, there is no there, there for them to enact a change. If they’re not getting therapy, if they’re not working on themselves. If they’re personality disordered. They’re not going to change. Let’s be clear and bringing it up when your home is not going to do any good. All it’s going to do is give them fuel for the fire to use against you at the dinner table with other family members, etc., etc., etc. Don’t do it. And again, I think the reason why we do things like that is because our inner child flares up, and it’s just like but, but you got to work with that kid, you got to work with that little one, you got to love that little one and reassure that little one and just make sure the little one understands. Okay, little me, adult me has to be in charge here, not you; let adult me take care of you. And so, you work with that. So seriously, do some work on the inner child workbook, whether it’s the Katherine Taylor one, or whether it’s the Lucia Cappacchione. So, seriously, you’re going to have to have a little chat with your little inner self before you go to dinner and a pep talk, mirror work. Hi, good to see you have a great day; guess what? You don’t owe anybody an explanation. You don’t need to engage with anyone you don’t want to. Have a good day! Love you! Bye. And then you walk out, you know, remind yourself of that. Have a signal that you and your partner, if you’re going with your spouse or boyfriend, can tell each other, letting the other one know it’s time to go. So, for me and John, it was oh, we got to go hunt. It’s really, you know, we got to let the dog out of the out of the kennel. That was his clue that I’d had enough. And it was time to leave, you know, and so he would do the same thing for me. If he’d had enough and it was time to leave. So yeah, absolutely. And then that way, you know, they don’t know. So, there’s that. Okay, hold on back to how to enjoy that.

Okay, increase your care. It’s easy to become overwhelmed by difficult family members. Oh, dear God, when you’re depleted. So, make sure that you’re getting enough sleep, you’re getting enough water, you’re eating as healthfully as you can, go for a walk, clear your head, you know, that whole thing, avoid, avoid alcohol and sweets, it’s only going to make you feel worse, which is very much true.

Kris Godinez  26:52

And you got to remember, abusive families, toxic families, love to keep people up, love to wear them down. You know, honestly, if you, if you don’t have to stay in the house with them, go stay at a hotel, seriously, or an Airbnb or something, you don’t you don’t have to stay with them. So, and then that would give you a break, too, because it’s like you’re away from them. And you know, oh, yeah, well, you know, got to take a shower, we’ll be over in 45 minutes, you know, or whatever, even though you’re ready to go, you know. So, give yourself a break. Again, you don’t have to tell them everything. And I honestly find a lot of people new to recovery is that they overshare. And they over-tell their plans with their toxic family. And it’s like, you don’t need to tell them anything. You just tell them, you know, you’re staying at a hotel, you don’t get a hotel, stay at a hotel. And yes, they’ll piss and whine and moan and everything else. Oh, well, you know, you have the right to handle your own accommodations. So anyway, there’s that, okay, here’s another one on.

Okay. All right, keep your routine as regular as possible. Because changes in routine, and especially if we come from families that are toxic, or alcoholic, or both. Changes in routine can be very upsetting. It throws us off. It does. And honestly, that’s kind of how the toxic families want it so that you’re thrown off. So, try to stick to your routine as much as possible. So, if you normally get up and go take a walk, get up and go take a walk. If you normally do meditation in the morning, do meditation in the morning, it’s like try to stick as close to your routine as possible so that you’re not off kilter, so that you’re grounded so that when toxic family members do come at you, you can be like, No, thank you, I’m not going to engage in that conversation or think I’m going to go get another cup of coffee, and then you get out of the situation. You have the right to walk away; you have the right to walk away. Absolutely. Okay, hold on. Um, okay.

Okay, think moderation. Don’t drink too much. I think we’ve talked about that. Because sometimes, and this is another, this is another mistake that the newly initiated into recovery do from toxic families, is they go home, and this soon as the toxic family members start, they reach for the alcohol. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. And especially if you are also trying to tackle addiction issues. Don’t do it. It’s not going to help. I mean, it’s going to numb you. Yes. But it’s going to create more problems. So, the better thing to do is if it’s getting to the point where you’re wanting to use because you just can’t frickin stand them, leave, have an upset stomach and leave seriously. It’s like, you know, oh, I’ll come over tomorrow morning or whatever. So, leave, leave, leave. You don’t have to numb yourself just because they’re being obnoxious. You know, and then the question is, what are they doing that’s triggering you so badly that you had to reach for that alcohol or drug of choice or whatever it’s like, no. And you know, and that’s the big thing. If you are in recovery from drugs and alcohol, don’t even go, don’t even go. If you’re… if you’re new to recovery and from drugs and alcohol, don’t even go. Don’t do it. Save yourself.

Because this time of year is when people relapse with good reason. I mean, it’s like you’re dealing with incredibly toxic people. So yeah, so just if you’re new to recovery from drugs, and alcohol, don’t even go. Create your own family tradition, create your own tradition, and go do something for you! Go hang out with friends, go volunteer, go work at a food bank, go get out of your head and do something else. That would be the best suggestion. So, if they’re toxic, and you think you’re going to use because of them, don’t even go. Don’t even go Okay, hang on. Um, all right, hey, I will get to the questions, hold on.

Be Real, Be realistic. Don’t expect them to change. Don’t expect them to be different. Stay connected to healthy family or friends. Do a reality check. Get some grounding, get support. Don’t forget to ask for help. So, remember, not asking for help is a trauma response. So, if you’re with the family, and they’re being cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, and you’re like, oh, my God, you know, feel free to step outside and call a friend and just go, you will not believe what Aunt Bertha just pulled and then your friends going to go? Oh, my God, oh, no, you’re totally right. Girls, ground yourself. You’ll be fine. You know what I’m saying? That’s what friends are for. Friends are there to support you, or the friend will be like, Okay, here’s the plan. I’m going to call you in 15 minutes, and it’s going to be an emergency. There’s your excuse. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, you want to you want to take care of yourself. You want to make sure you have friends, healthy friends, and family that you can call and talk to? You don’t have to be alone if you don’t want to volunteer, spending holidays, soup, kitchen, food, pantry, children’s home, elderly homes, etc. I mean, you can volunteer, you can go do something else.

Focus on today. Not yesterday. You have the right to say no. So, if they’re trying to make you do all the cooking, or they’re trying to make you do the hosting, or it’s too much, you can say no, they’re not going to like it. But oh, well, you know, you have the right to say no, if you don’t want to do all the cooking, don’t do all the cooking, if they’re trying to make you, you know, pay for a bunch of stuff. You don’t have to. You can say no. Ask for help. Asking for help, you know, emotional support exactly, you know, etc. That’s what you need to do. Be good to yourself, be so gentle with you. That is the most important thing is because we tend to beat ourselves up, we tend to internalize when the holidays are not going well, because we think somehow this is a little kid inside of us that it was something we said, or we did. And it’s not I just want to be very clear.

Now. This next article is from taps. And I can’t make that bigger. Can I make that bigger because I don’t know who that is a tragedy assistance program for survivors. Okay, now this is for people grieving. So, the holidays are incredibly difficult when we are grieving. And that could be the loss of a person, a pet, a job, you know, losing a relationship that we thought was real, any of that. So, make plans, you know, make sure that you are surrounded by support. Choose your company wisely. So, if you are newly out of an abusive relationship, going into a toxic family situation may not be a good thing. So especially if they’re going to want to ask a lot of questions. Well, why aren’t you together?  They’re being nosy parkers? You don’t need to answer that. If somebody asked me something that is too intensely personal, I’ll just look at them. And I’ll be like, wow, thank you for asking. And then I just let that really uncomfortable silence just sit there. So, it’s kind of like I’m not answering that. Or the other thing you can do again if you don’t want to be a smart aleck because I tend to be a smart aleck. The other thing you can do is you can say it’s too fresh. It’s too raw. I’m not going to talk about that. You have the right to say that again. They’re going to push, but you don’t have to answer it. So just remember that, okay, hold on.

Let me get to the other ones. Find support, seek spiritual comfort, whatever your spiritual belief is, you know, find comfort in your community. Honor, Your grief. I think that is the big thing because remember when we were talking about complicated grief; people have a tendency to be like, you know, I’m going to shove it under the rug and make it go away, and no, no, honor your grief. If you are newly broken up from an abuser, you’re going to be grieving, let’s be clear, and the holidays are hard. Because this is the time of year when they have traditionally done the love bombing done the, you know, oh, you know, romantic Christmas or whatever, you know, and or this is when they’ve dumped you is around the holidays. So yeah, it’s going to be a little tender. So, honor that grief. Remember, if you’re out away from an abuser, this thing you fell in love with was an illusion, it wasn’t even real. So, treat it like a death. Treat it like a death, they are dead, they are dead. This was not real, they are dead. So that’s what you’re going to want to be doing. Okay, let’s see what other tips they had. Honor your grief, be patient with yourself seriously, you’re going to feel the feelings, that’s it’s just going to happen. You’re going to feel the feels. And again, if being with toxic family is not going to be supportive, don’t go! Be with people that are going to support you mentally, physically, emotionally and otherwise. Does that make sense? It’s like you want to be around friends like friends, not frenemies, not toxic family. You want to be around people that are going to support you and love you and be gentle with you and encourage you. That’s what you’re going to need at that point. Okay, let’s see, um, focus on your health. Don’t forget to ask for help engage in acts of service. That’s in every single one of these. That’s one of the main things they’ve said. Okay. All right. So let me get to.

Kris Godinez  36:44

All right. So basically, to recap, if you can avoid going with toxic family members for any holiday, avoid, do your own thing. And you don’t owe them an explanation. And I love the BS fog, the plain shame, fear, obligation, guilt, you know, that’s what they do. So, if you recognize that they’re pulling any of that, there’s your there’s, there’s your sign, there’s your clue, don’t go, don’t go, you know, because this is just a taste of what they’re going to pull when you get there. If you feel like you have to go limit your time, seriously, stay at a hotel, don’t stay with the family. If you have to stay with the family, then limit your time there, like overnight, or maybe two days. And before you go, have a really strong chat with your inner child. Love that little one, reassure that little one and let the inner child know that you’re the adult. Little One is the little one, you’re going to protect them, but they have to let you be the adult and deal with all of this. Don’t overshare! Don’t overshare because they’re going to try to get you to overshare don’t overshare You don’t owe them anything. Keep it surface-level. Don’t get too deep. If things get nasty, and you want to get out of there. We’ve you have the right to leave. Come up with an excuse, you know. So yeah, you don’t have to stay. Okay. I think that covers everything.

Let’s Oh, one other thing I wanted to talk about is somebody got kind of snarky with me last week because I answered two questions in the weekly question thing. I want to remind everybody, I run a full-time private practice. So, when I have time to do more questions, I do more questions. If I only have time to do two, I’m going to do two. So, one of the keys is meowing. So, I just want to let you know, it’s not that I’m being lazy. It’s that I literally don’t have time. So, I’ll answer as many questions as I can. If I only have time for two questions. I’m going to answer two questions. If I have time for more, I will do more.

So okay, let’s speaking of questions; let’s dive into other questions. Okay. Do narcs use the holiday as an opportunity to pick fights? Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. My late narc. Mom would always pick fights with me, and I stopped going back eventually. Oh my god. So, you’ve got to understand narcissists and borderlines if they are malignant; they view courts and Thanksgiving dinner, and Christmas as a captive audience. So, they will pick that time to ruin it. They’ll pick that time to ruin it. They love to ruin anything that’s not directly about them. Their ego gets very angry that this holiday is not about them. So yeah, they intentionally ruin birthdays, Christmas, New Year’s, Thanksgiving, anniversaries, whatever, because it’s not about them. And I will be writing a book about that after I finally finished the fourth book dear God. But I want to talk in the new book that I’m forming relating about how they do that kind of thing. So, it is also a little bit of that captive audience. Um, so if they’ve got a captive audience, that’s the time that they’ll pull something my dad would do that we would be sitting around the table, and he’ll decide he didn’t like my sass or he didn’t like that I wasn’t sassing him or geez, Louise. I was breathing wrong. And the next thing I know, I get backhanded for no reason. No reason, and then, of course, it would cause upset, and the whole family would be upset and, you know, having a fed and everything else, and he ruined the dinner. Um, so they will do the upset or the trauma because they’re drama kings, crisis queens. They love the upset. They love the drama they love. You know, they it’s like they stir the pot and then they sit back and go, ha, look what I did. Seriously. And so, they ruin holidays. They ruin birthdays. They ruin anniversaries. If it’s not directly about them, they will find a way to ruin it. Because they don’t feel joy. They don’t feel happy. They don’t. And so, what does Christmas and Thanksgiving do for most people? I frickin love the holidays. I love it. I love to cook. I love hanging out with friends. I love the food. I love the presents. I love hanging out in the, you know, Hallmark holiday stuff. I love it. Because I’m, you know, a hopeless romantic. So, you know, I mean, so it’s fun, but they don’t feel those feelings. And so, when somebody does that pisses them off so badly they can’t stand it that other people are having fun, and other people are enjoying, and other people are happy because they don’t feel they don’t feel the way we feel it. It pisses them off. And so, they’ve got to ruin it. So that’s why they pick fights; you betcha. Or, again, it’s that captive audience. Let’s let me just stir the pot and see what happens. Ha ha ha, look how powerful I am. I’ve ruined the dinner. I’m powerful. You know, that’s what they do. So yeah, they do that the bastages, anyway.

All right. Um, my birthday is the 21st Oh, happy birthday. My narc mom, who I had gone no contact with wants to send me gifts. Oh, boy. I’m worried she’s trying to weasel back in. How do I handle this situation? Okay, well, a true gift. I’ve said this before; I’m going to say it again. A true gift has no strings attached. So, if she’s sending you a gift, and it’s through the mail, okay, again, just a simple thank you. And that’s it. You know, she’s going to do what she’s going to do if she’s sending it through the mail. She’s going to send it through the mail. You know, I hope she doesn’t show up to your house. Again, you’re under no obligation to answer the door. You’re not. It’s like everybody seems to think that. You know, oh, they come to the door. I have to answer the door. Hail. No, that’s why I got the ring. Thank you very much. Because then I can look and see what it is. And I’m like, you know, it’s like, I don’t want to answer the door, especially if it’s a salesman. But anyway, the point being is that you don’t have to answer the door. If she sends you gifts in the mail. A simple thank you because that’s the civil thing to do. But then nothing else. And then if she starts with the whole, I bought you these gifts, blah, blah, blah. Well, they weren’t gifts, there were strings attached. So yeah, I mean, yes, they will. That’s a classic Hoover. That is a classic Hoover. Absolutely. And if you’ve been no contact, stay no contact as much as you can. And yeah, that she’s going to do what she’s going to do. She’s going to mail them through the mail. They’re going to show up, you know, so if they do, you send a very generic thank you, and that’s it, and you don’t do anything more, don’t call, don’t text. Don’t you know, just send a thank you card through the mail. If you can remove yourself as much as possible, the better so, but yes, they absolutely do that, and yes, she is trying to weasel her way back in. All right, how do you handle the situation? If she sends gifts, she sends gifts if she shows up, you don’t have to answer the door, you can pretend, you’re gone yeah, and just don’t feel guilty, no guilt, no guilt, no guilt! If the guilt pops up, thank you, guilt, that was a fascinating thought. I am not playing go pound sand go bye, bye now and push it out.  Because you don’t have to, you don’t have to feel guilty. You got nothing to get feel guilty about.

All right, um, how to deal with the smear campaign of you being the mean one because you are saying no. And choosing not to engage in the festivities. Isn’t that interesting how they flip the script? Yes. So okay, so here’s the deal. Saying no is not mean. Let’s be very clear, the only people who don’t like boundaries are those who are dedicated to crossing them. So, you just rise above and keep going. They’re going to say whatever they’re going to say. They’re going to do whatever they’re going to do. You cannot control that. Okay? What you can control is whether or not you take it personally.

Oh, don’t take things personally. That’s one of the ones I forgot to say. When you’re at the family dinner, don’t take things personally, they are literally going to throw whatever they have at the wall to see what sticks. Don’t take it personally. Don’t rise to the bait. You know, you don’t. It’s not about you. They’re… They’re just function is about them. It is not about you. Don’t take it personally. And now I’ve completely forgotten what that question was. Hold on. Oh, you’re mean because you’re saying no, no, you’re drawing boundaries. Uh, well, they don’t have to like it. They have to respect it. You know, seriously, you’re not going to like it. But you do get to respect it. And you just keep your boundary, and they’re not going to like it. Abusers don’t like boundaries. Abusers do not like boundaries with a healthy normal person or a healthy normal family. If a child says, hey, we’re going to go do our own things. Oh, shoot, I’m going to miss you. But have a great time.

Kris Godinez  46:33

There you go done. You know, no muss, no fuss, no drama. With an unhealthy family. Well, you’re mean, you’re not coming into the festivities, and you’re…..you, you, you, you the your guns are going. So, there’s the blame, the shame, the fear, the obligation, and guilt. Oh, Kim, thank you so much for that. I love that say, Bs fog. It’s BS fog. It’s BS fog. They’re giving you BS fog. So ah, no, you have the right to go do your own thing. And you’re not being mean. You’re having boundaries. This is what drives me crazy is when new couples get together, I see the controlling families tear the couples. I mean, John and I had to deal with that when we were newly married. It’s like his family wanted us to always go do things with them. My family wanted us to always go do things with them. And we finally just kind of went to both of them and just did our own thing. You know, we were just like this too much. Can’t cope, we’re leaving bye, and we just went and created our own stuff and did traveling and you know, things like that new things, which is really a great way to do it. You create your own traditions in which is the way it should be newly married couples, newly married, or newly minted couples, whether they’re married or not, should be allowed to create their own traditions, you know, with the full blessings of the family. But if the families are toxic, or if the families are dysfunctional, it’s going to be a battle for power and control with the couple as the prize, which to me just deserves slap therapy all the way around. So, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, so, yeah, so yep. Yeah, you’re not mean, and you just laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh because it’s a joke. It really is. You’re not the mean one. You’re drawing boundaries, and they don’t like it and who’s being immature? Well, it’s not you, it’s them. So don’t take it personally. They’re just trying to manipulate and control and like I said, dysfunctional families will throw whatever they got in the pot against the wall to see what’s going to stick.

So, if they think that you’re going to fall for the whole, well, you’re mean and you this and you that you, you, you and how dare you. Right, that’s what they’re going to throw. So, if you can just kind of laugh at it and go, wow, this is not about you. This is about them. Dear Lord, the more you’s there are going on, notice what you, you, you, you guys, okay, there’s two fingers pointed out at you. But there’s six fingers pointed out at the person who’s doing the accusing. Go figure. So, they’re talking about themselves? Because a healthy normal person would respect boundaries. No, and I mean it. No, and I’m not going to go, okay, if you need me to be the bad guy, then okay. You live with the story you need to do you know, and have a sense of humor about it? I think the problem of it is that we as targets of abuse, take things so personally because we’re so used to being blamed. And we’re so used to being put down and we’re so used to, you know, being codependent and taking it on internalizing it. Oh, you’re right. It’s my fault. Mea culpa. Mea, culpa. mea maxima culpa. No, it’s not your fault. You’ve got nothing to be guilty about. You’re drawing a boundary. It’s okay. It’s okay for you to draw a boundary. Are you being me? No, you’re just not wanting to deal with a bunch of cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. I don’t blame you. You know, isn’t not my idea of fun either.

So. Okay, hold on. Let’s get to the next question. I hope that answered the question. So, stick to your guns. This is just a manipulation. It’s just a manipulation. Okay. How do you handle PTSD flare-ups, when visiting family when they have recovered and gotten better? I know they aren’t the same as they were before, but I still have a hard time seeing them. Well, PTSD is whether PTSD is from, you know, like a life-threatening event or whether it’s CPTSD, a series of abusive events, flashbacks are going to happen. You know, those feelings are going to come back up, the panic attacks can happen, that kind of thing. I’m not quite sure I understand your question. How do you handle PTSD flare-ups, when visiting family when they have recovered and gotten better? So, I’m assuming it must have been like a life-threatening event? I know they aren’t the same as they were before. But I still have a hard time seeing them. I’m not sure if we’re dealing with an accident, or if we’re dealing with abuse. Oh, they’re no longer abusive. Ooh, that’s a tough one. Ooh, that’s a sticky wicket. Holy cow.

Let me, let me process that one for a second. Okay. So, they’re no longer abusive. You’re going to go see them. It creates a lot of anxiety, obviously. Do you have to go see them? Honestly, that would be kind of my first thing. It’s like, do you have to? And? Or do you want to even… there, there’s a question, is this a have to or a want to, you know, if you want to go see them, and you’re having some of those feelings, okay, well, then, then maybe that’s something worth going through with. But if you have to go see them, and you don’t really want to, that’s when you really kind of need to do a pro and con list. You really want to see them. Is this worth it? Is this going to be okay? Are you going to be okay? And I think that’s the main question. We all have to ask ourselves when we are dealing with family who has in the past been abusive. Let’s say they, they’re no longer abusive. Maybe they’ve worked on themselves; maybe they’ve gotten sober. Maybe they’ve, you know, whatever. But do you really want to see them? You know, and I think that’s kind of the question. Oh, and they want to maintain a relationship with your siblings. Okay, so Wow, that’s a tough one. So, what I would say is, if you don’t have a therapist, get a therapist; you’re going to need somebody to vent to like nobody’s business. My recommendation would be a talk therapist in conjunction with an EMDR therapist so that you can deal with the past. And you’re also dealing with the present and two different angles. Does that make sense? With the PTSD, your body, the body keeps score. Bessel van der Kolk great book. It is going to bring up body memories. Okay. Um, like, when I had to be around my dad, I’ll tell you what, I’ve got a startle response like nobody’s business because he was always hitting me. So just like a dog that’s been beat too much, you know, I have this tendency to, like, you know, expect a hand to come out me. So, it’s, it’s going to, it’s going to bring up physical responses, okay. The flashbacks are probably going to be there. That fear is probably going to be there. Again, if this happened, when you were smaller or younger, you’re going to want to work with the inner child and comfort them. You’re also going to want to have your boundaries up. It’s like, you know, if they’re no longer abusive, make sure they’re not crossing any other boundaries. You know, make sure that everything is cool, and they’re respecting you R E S P E, C T. That is the absolute highest thing you need to work on having other people respect you. If they don’t respect, you leave. You don’t need to…. You don’t hang around people that don’t respect you whether they’re family or not.

So, maintaining a relationship with the siblings. So, it can be… how do I explain this? Honor yourself, honor yourself acknowledge, don’t ignore it. Don’t be like, Oh, no, everything’s fine. Because fine in counselor’s language, fine stands up for effed up insecure, neurotic, and emotional. Okay. So, you don’t want to do that. I’m fine. I’m fine. Well, no, no. Honor that. Yes. I’m having these emotions. Yes. Like you know, keep a journal. Keep something you can write things out with. Comfort, that inner child comfort, comfort you that you got abused comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, honor, respect yourself and listen to yourself. It’s like if it’s if it’s too much, take a break, go for a walk. Call your therapist. It’s like, that would be a good thing to do. So, if you want to stay in touch with the siblings, I understand why you’re doing it. That makes total sense. So, but just recognize that those thoughts and feelings are going to be there. It’s like when we go through abuse; it’s not like it just poof disappears. Okay. We’re going to have triggers. We’re going to have, you know, flashbacks. We’re going to have feelings. Honor those flashbacks. Honor those feelings. Validate yourself. Get a therapist. I think that kitty wants in now. Yeah, I can. I can. I can hear him yelling. So, hold on. Okay, so I hope that answers the question. Yeah, you’re going to have a hard time seeing them, you are. So gray rock when needed. So, no response, no emotional response. You know, don’t engage. Just honor yourself. Honor how you’re feeling. Get with a good therapist. Get with an EMDR therapist. Make sure you have somebody that you can call that can help you stay grounded. A friend you know, or a trusted family member. So, make sure that you’re taking self-care like a boss. So, this is I think one of the hardest things that survivors of abuse do is when we leave a toxic family. Family has been abusive, family has stopped being abusive, but there are still siblings, either still living with them or they’re still siblings that are in touch with them, and we want to stay in touch with the siblings. It’s really going to be self-care, like a boss for yourself care, like a boss, and do not put up with BS from anybody. Seriously and boundaries. So yep. Gentle with you, my love. That’s what you’re going to. It’s gonna flare up. Absolutely. And you are going to have a hard time seeing that but just honor yourself.

Kris Godinez  56:33

Just Yep, I’m having a hard time. Yep. Breathe. It’s going to be okay. So yeah, good job. Okay, um, when a narc attempts to Hoover with trauma, like a death in the family. Is it okay to not respond at all? Yes, absolutely. It hurt when they did this to us. And I never want to feel that way again. Yeah, absolutely. So, it’s amazing what narcissists will do to try to reestablish connection. Yes, they will read about a death in the family and then you know, send you a condolence or send you a text or an email or a phone call or you know, whatever. They will literally do anything. There is no honor there. There is no sense of decorum. There is no sense of maybe I shouldn’t do this. Maybe this isn’t a good idea. They’re not introspective. So, for them. It’s kind of like, oh, I know, I’ll reconnect with them because they’re grieving and I will you know, send them a condolence. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don’t need to respond to them. You don’t if you’ve gone no contact if they were abusive, absolutely have nothing to do with them. You don’t have to respond. You do not owe anybody literally anything. So, they sent a condolence. Okay, how nice for you. I’m not responding. Boundary, boundary. So yeah, honor yourself. Absolutely. Kitty, what are you doing? All right. I think that kitty cat is meowing. Okay.

All right, guys. I think that is it. So, I will answer I will have time this week because I’m on vacation. So, I will answer the questions on Wednesday. So, if I didn’t get to any questions, I will answer them on Wednesday, plus other ones that are coming in. I will put up the stuff about the cruise. So, I’ll start, you know, once I get back from this, I’ll start figuring out how to do the cruise and all that sort of good stuff. Um, can’t think of anything else. I will talk to you guys on Wednesday. Take care of yourselves. Drink plenty of water. Remember self-care like a boss. Remember, you don’t owe anybody anything. Remember you don’t have to go if you don’t want to. So gentle with you, and I will talk to you guys on Wednesday. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so today’s current event that, we have to talk about the attack on Paul Pelosi, and I would be talking about this, whether this was a Republican that was the spouse that had been attacked or whether it was a Democrat spouse that had been attacked, this is unacceptable! And here are the two pink elephants taking dumps in the corner of the nation’s living room. One: mental health in this country sucks! It does! It always has. It’s never been good. We have never truly addressed mental health issues and especially severely mentally ill health issues.

The way in the past that it was dealt with, dealt with in bunny ears, was that they were warehoused. And they were put into these horrible institutions like the Pennhurst or Trans Allegheny or, you know, and they were just warehoused and not dealt with, not helped, not, you know, given tools, not you know, or the proper medication. Or and, or they would just do these horrible experiments like lobotomies on them, and it never got dealt with. So that’s, that’s pink elephant number one. It’s like, why are we just kind of going “No, no, no, we’re not going to talk about that. We’ll talk about the weapons.” Okay, this guy used a hammer. Let me be clear, if you’re crazy, if you’re delusional, if you’re hearing voices, if you’ve got command hallucinations, and I’m not saying he did, but if you’re crazy, and you think it’s a good idea to go attack an 82-year-old man with a hammer, there’s an issue there.

And Issue number two, pink elephant number two in the living room? Is that this kid, kid, anybody younger than me as a kid anyway, the point being is, is that this guy had been posting online, all of these threats, all of these intentions, all of these, and either people didn’t take it seriously, because they didn’t know what to look for, or they didn’t understand the seriousness of the threats, you know, or they just didn’t recognize, you know, hey, this is kind of like a first warning sign here. We should probably do a welfare check and see what’s going on. Do you see where I’m going? That we’re not trained. We’re not honest to God, so. Okay. And here’s the other thing.

03:28

Okay, sorry. I’ll address that one later. Because I was about to go on a different rant, but I’m not going to. So, the mental health in this country has got to be addressed. Absolutely. You cannot just sweep it under the carpet and go “Oh, it’s going to get better.” No, it’s going to get lumpier and it’s going to get nastier and it’s going to be harder to clean. Okay, that’s what happens when you sweep things under the carpet. So that mental health issue is one of the pink elephants that we just we don’t do good mental health in this country. And we should because there are a lot of mentally ill people out there. I worked in the homeless shelter, and almost all of them were mentally ill. And I know people love to do that whole Oh, you know, they’re just taking advantage of the services and… Okay, you try having a demon screaming in one ear and God screaming in the other and somebody giving you a job interview in front of you and see how well you do!

Okay. So mental health needs to be addressed. Contact your local representatives, this needs to be handled at a local level. We need to get the city governments involved, we need to get the county governments involved, we need to get the state governments involved, we need to get the federal government involved. This needs to be handled I’m sounding the alarm. And I get to say I told you so if it gets worse because I’ve been telling you so for how long? Okay, there’s a problem needs to be handled.

Pink Elephant number two. This guy was influenced by social media said it throughout his ramblings online. You cannot stand in a theater and scream fire because people will stampede out and get killed. There is a reason why it is illegal, there is a reason why people will get arrested for doing that because people have been harmed and people have been killed. The people who are doing social media and I talked about this, I think it was last week when we talked about the idiot TikTok challenges that are dangerous. This is no different. Inciting someone to violence is the same thing. As standing in a crowded theater and screaming fire. They need to be held fiscally, legally and morally accountable. This is not okay. And again, we need to get our government officials involved in getting that handled because this is not okay.

When somebody is mentally ill, and if they’ve got command hallucinations, and if they’ve got any sort of severe mental illness that is unmedicated, they’ve got voices going. They are going to act on what they hear on a daily basis. It happened at the homeless shelter. It’s happening in other cities around the world, basically. So, accountability. Words are powerful. That’s why I try to be so careful what I say here so that I am helping as many people as possible and not hurting anyone. Those people that incite violence that incite conspiracy theories that incite division and dirision and negativity, and nastiness, they are probably disordered. And they are probably narcissistic because that’s what narcissists do. They stir things up, and then they sit back and go, Oh, goody, look at what I made happen. Look at all these terrible things happening in the family. Look at all the terrible things happening out in the public. Look at how powerful I am. That’s what they do, guys. That’s what they do. This needs to be addressed. Absolutely. It needs to be addressed. They need to be held accountable.

And here’s a little caveat onto the end of that. Here’s how I know that people can get along. We’ve gotten along for a long time. Until social media. Number one, I know I sound like one of those old ladies. Well, I am one of those old ladies. Because we got along really well before social media, social media happens, and the trolls took over, and oh my god, and they’re just enjoying the division and the derision and the nastiness. Here’s the other reason I know this is possible for us to all get along is that healthy people can accept differing opinions. We may not agree with them. Absolutely. But we certainly don’t take a hammer to them for not having the same opinion. Okay? I just got back from a Halloween party last night. Over at Hanson’s house. Oh my God, it was so much fun. Everybody was like, What are you? I’m like, I’m a therapist. So I just dressed normally.

07:48

Some people got the joke, some people didn’t. But, um, anyway, the point being is, is that Hanson is a libertarian, I am liberal. His friends are mostly Republican. Guess what? Not only do we get along, we actually like each other. And we actually like having social normal discourse and understanding where the other one is coming from! May not agree with them, but it’s like, it helps to talk, and it helps to understand and helps to get the other opinions and it helps to…

Because we’re adults, and we aren’t splitting, we aren’t like black, white, good, bad or nothing. And that’s what these people are doing. And they are playing off of that. So, it needs to be addressed. It does. They’re the two the two pink elephants in the nation’s living room. One is the lack of mental health care and training. Nobody caught that. If I had read that stuff, I would have been like, oh, Houston, we got a problem Where’s you know, going? Who can we send out? And that’s the other thing. It’s like, generally, they won’t do anything unless it’s danger to self or danger to others.

And I think that was a danger to others that was just completely missed. So okay, so we’ve got that the mental health issue needs to be addressed on all levels. It cannot just be a state or federal, it’s got to be local. It’s got to be local, as well. The second issue is the people that are standing in a crowded theater, i.e. the internet and screaming fire and inciting people, especially mentally ill people, to violence. They’ve got to be held accountable. So here endth the rant, I just thought I’d bring that up.

Okay, now let’s talk about Thanksgiving. And or Christmas and or New Year’s and or all the holidays coming up. So basically, we’ve got a lot of holidays coming up in the next few months. Peacekeeping. Let’s talk about peacekeeping. So, peacekeeping, being the Peacekeeper in the family, being the clown in the family, being somebody who smooths over the issues in the family is a trauma response. I know, I know, it’s like their last four weeks, I’ve been talking about nothing but trauma responses. And that’s what we’re dealing with.

So, when we are in a family of origin, and they are disordered, splitting, black-white thinking, lots of anger, lots of chaos, lots of drama. Kids start falling into roles. And one of the roles is a peacekeeper, and that’s a tough role for a kid because it’s not their job. So, here’s this poor little kid, you know, young, 810 years old, either trying to be the comedian to make people laugh and not yell at each other or literally being the intermediary, splitting people apart, you know, distracting doing whatever they need to make the family get along. So here’s what happens, abusive people hate holidays, hate them, they say they love them, but they don’t. Because what they do is they set about to ruin every single holiday out there, they just do. And the way they ruin it is either by creating anger, chaos, drama, you know, whatever. Or they suddenly, you know, if they’re, if they’re the covert narcissist, they’ll suddenly have some sort of health issue in the middle of dinner. And it’s really nothing. You know, so they set about to harm people, they set about to blow it up, they set about to create as much drama as possible. And if we were growing up in this family, then we were trained to make everything smooth. We were trained to make it better. We were trained to be the diplomat, be the ambassador be the whatever. That is so not fair to kids, that is so not fair to kids. So not fair. Because little kids can’t handle that. And they’re forcing, they’re forcing the kid to take sides, basically. And then making it mad at the peacekeeper, that’s trying to keep everything smooth, and everything calm, and everything good. Instead of really dealing with the abuser that has caused the drama, the upset the whatever. So peacekeeping is a form of people-pleasing.

And it’s funny because when I’m working with my clients, they’ll read like, the disease to please. And they may or may not recognize their role, right? So they’re like, well, but I never really, you know, did things for other people expecting to get anything back? Okay, well, but did you do other things that were, you know, trying to keep the peace or trying to, you know, make somebody else happy or trying to whatever. So the people that…the people that do that, this goes forward in their life, okay. And they find themselves constantly trying to keep the peace, constantly being the comedian, constantly distracted, constantly doing whatever, in order to try to keep the calm, okay, so that is a people-pleasing mood, it’s not just about, oh, I’m doing something for somebody, so that they’ll give something back to me, it’s like if you’re doing this in order to influence the family dynamics, that is still people pleasing. I know. Mind blown. So, these kids that are forced into this now I was the comedian, in my family, I was I was either the scapegoat, or the comedian, or sometimes the funny scapegoat because I would do that too.

13:54

But kids are forced into these roles. And so as the comedian, my job was to keep it light. My job was to make people laugh. My job was to find the humor in this really awful situation, you know, and I kind of carry that through, I use humor a lot. I really do. You know, it becomes a problem, though, if you’re using humor to avoid the emotions you’re feeling. And oftentimes, comedians, that’s what they do. And that’s, you know, they grow up and they use the humor to keep people at arm’s length and to keep that vulnerability away from that’s a problem when we grow up and we continue doing that role even though we don’t need to do it anymore. So, looking at the roles of Peacekeeper and comedian and scapegoat and golden child and, you know, in really dysfunctional families, second spouse, you know, etc., etc., etc. Second, mom, second dad is really important because that’s going to tell us what our knee-jerk reaction is to situations that bring up flashbacks. I know.

So, there were a couple of really great articles on psychology today. So, let’s see if I can find this. Okay, this one is called playing out our childhood role. And I’m bringing up the whole Peacekeeper thing. Sorry, we’ll get to the article in a moment. I’m bringing up the whole Peacekeeper thing because as we’re coming into the holidays, we’re having to deal with family or not. I mean, honestly, if your family is toxic, I absolve you. You don’t have to spend time with them. You don’t serious hand to heart, you don’t have to spend time with toxic family, you don’t you have the right to go do your own damn holiday or no holiday at all. I mean, if you just wanted to shut your doors and pretend you’re not home do that, you are under no obligation to spend time with these people. So the scary thing of it is, is that when the holidays come up, we get this nostalgia, and the inner child is running the show. And we feel like we have to, or we’re obligated. So please remember fog, fear, obligation guilt. If somebody’s guilt tripping you into spending the holidays with them, do not spend the holidays with them. Don’t if you feel obligated, do not spend the holidays with them. If you’re fearful, do not spend the holidays with them. A lot of times what I hear people say is Oh my gosh, I have to I got to protect my sister, or I have to protect my brother, or I have to protect my mom or I have to… no, it is not your job. It is not your job. And I think that is what is so damaging to us as survivors as we get stuck in these roles of protector or Peacekeeper or comedian or, you know, golden child, scapegoat or you know, whatever. And we think we have to keep doing that role forever and ever. Amen. And we do not. So, if you’re looking at the holidays, because and this is why I wanted to talk about this now because it’s only, you know, it’s right before Halloween. So if you’re looking at the holidays, and you’re like, Oh, I do not want to go spend Thanksgiving with the in-laws, or with my parents or you know, whatever family, you don’t have to, you don’t have to and you do not owe anybody an explanation. Well, but why? Well, we have other plans. But what plans do you have, big ones. And you just leave it at that. Thank you for asking.

17:29

Crickets, and you don’t have to say anything else. And I think again, this goes back to oversharing. So we have a tendency to overshare when we’re saying no to an abuser, because we’re afraid because the inner child is afraid because we know how they’re going to freak out. They will try to punish. But here’s the deal. You’re an adult, they really truly cannot do anything to you. I mean, they can yell, they can scream, they can cry, they can play the victim, they can tell everybody what a horrible child you are. Oh well. Sticks and stones, mofo, sticks and stones, you know what I’m saying? So yeah, you just you don’t have to go spend the holidays with them, go do your own thing. But if you do decide to spend the holidays with them, be aware of how we slipped back into those roles really quickly. Like really quickly. Like when I would go home to visit, it would take maybe less than a week, probably three days, for me to be like oh my god, I’m seven years old again. What the hell? You know, and that’s just a notice. It’s just kind of like, Uh huh, isn’t that interesting? I feel like I’m seven. And my mom’s treating me like I’m seven. Hmm, interesting, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, it’s just a notice kind of thing. And then note to self. I don’t need to do this. I don’t need to keep coming back here. I don’t know what I’m looking for. Well, I do know, the inner child is looking for the family that we always wanted. They’re not there guys there.

There’s no they’re there. If they were abusive, if they’re toxic, if they’re drama, Queens, drama kings, etc. There is no there there you’re never going to find the family you wanted with your family of origin if they are disordered and toxic. So, there is that? Okay, um, so, alright.

Okay, so, in this article, what I wanted to bring up is playing out the family roles. Okay, the peacekeeper’s job is to keep the peace by being an intermediate mediary go-between and mediator to pacify those who are irritable or angry in the family. So, I think I’ve talked about this before being a peacekeeper can be really dangerous physically. So, in my in-law’s family, there was a member of the family that was a raging and I do mean raging, alcoholic. And every time we got together, he would go around the room and he would start insulting people and he was looking for somebody to burst into tears, come unglued, argue with him, fight with him. etc., etc. And it never happened. It never happened because we all just kind of were like, Oh God, here he goes, you know. And eventually, the brothers would have to get together and carry him out because he was so falling down drunk. And it was dangerous because this guy weighed like, you know, 350 or so he was a very large man, and not a very nice man, and a violent drunk. And, you know, there’s always that possibility that you could take a swing at you, you know? So it’s dangerous. Being the Peacekeeper, physically. It’s also dangerous being the Peacekeeper emotionally because if the family decides that they really do want a knock down, drag out, and you’re trying to smooth things over, they’re going to blame you. You’re the problem. Now you’ve become the scapegoat.

Okay, so the roles are interchangeable. The peacekeeper role is interchangeable. It’ll keep being a peacekeeper will either make you the golden child, if you make everything good enough. Never because they’ll find something wrong with it, or it’ll turn you into the scapegoat or whatever. So you’ve got to be really, really aware of not slipping into that role. And if somebody comes to you and goes, do something, okay, leave not your job. Not your job being the Peacekeeper is not your job, it is not. So okay, let’s go through this, okay.

The Parental child is a miniature adult. I think we’ve talked about this where the kids have become parentified. And this is also a part of peacekeeping because they’re asking a child to make adults behave. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed this or not, but you cannot make somebody behave if they don’t want to if they’re bent on hell-bent on misbehavior, and or if they’ve got drugs or alcohol on board, there’s no way you can make them behave! Absolutely not because they’re in an altered state of mind, whether they’re mentally ill or whether they are on drugs and alcohol. So, you know, again, it puts the kid in a really bad situation. And it’s not fair of the adults to make the child be the adult. It’s not the kid’s job. It’s the adult’s job. But I cannot tell you the number of times I have seen adults throw the kid under the bus in order to save themselves. So, you know, well, you go take care of this, you go talk to them, you go do this, you go, you know, instead of hey, relative that’s a drunk jerk, you’re banished by get them out of here, call the police do whatever, you know, do you see where I’m going with that? So, it puts the kid in a very dangerous emotionally situation and it puts the kid in a very dangerous physical situation. Okay, so there’s the miniaturized child.

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The marital child is the second spouse. So that has to do with incest, the Helper, the assistant, and they’re always helping, and they’re always intervening. And that kind of goes along with the Peacekeeper, the dependent child is an extended and exaggerated childlike position. So, they become infantilized. So, there’s that the abandoned or invisible child is usually the middle child, not always the unwanted child. That kind of goes along with the scapegoat. The criticized child, this is the scapegoat can’t do anything wrong or can’t do anything, right. They’re always wrong. The betrayed child may have confidential confidentiality violated when they’ve confided something personal in the parent. So, the parent will pump them for information, and then at the Thanksgiving or Christmas, blurt it all out and the parent gets off on that if they are an abuser. The clown’s job is to keep things smooth, and funny, and light. The hero makes good grades. So that would be like the golden child. And the rebel is the rule breaker, which can also be the scapegoat. So, there is that.

Now the second one I got was, Are you a relationship peace keeper. Okay, now this is how it plays out in romantic relationships. And this is where it gets dangerous, really dangerous. I mean, it was dangerous before. But if you’re in an abusive relationship with a narcissist with somebody who is mentally, emotionally physically abusive, manipulative, etc., etc., etc. The Peacekeeper will automatically assume that everything in the relationship that’s wrong is their fault. Because the family of origin has trained them that it’s their fault. And so, they will bend over backwards, they will turn themselves into pretzels trying to make this unpleasable person pleased. And this is where it gets dangerous because peacekeepers are the ones who lose themselves more than anybody else. So, scapegoats can lose themselves. Absolutely. But if they’re the rebel scapegoats, they have tendency to, like, call the BS out for the BS that they see it. Does that make sense? So, the peacekeepers that are like I want peace at all costs , I’ll just lose myself, I’ll just Shush, I’ll just not say anything, I’ll just, you know, go away, I’ll be quiet, I won’t, you know, whatever. So that is that leads to losing yourself.

So, your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller as you try to twist yourself into something that’s going to keep the peace between you and this monster that does not want peace. Does that make sense? So, it’s dangerous, because that’s when we lose ourselves, we literally become a ghost of who we were, we really do we do, and we no longer recognize ourselves. Because we’ve given up so much, we’ve, we’ve continued to give up ground, you know, to try to please this person. And that’s dangerous. That’s, those are the clients that come in and start talking to me, that literally sit there and go, I don’t know who I am. I used to be, you know, confident and strong. And this, that and the other thing, and then it’s like, you know, they’re like, I don’t know who I am. I couldn’t even tell you what I like to eat. You know, I’m because this person would make them wrong. For everything. The criticism is insane. And, of course, this person is trying to smooth things over and make things good again and returned to the love bombing, which will never happen because they’re cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. These guys over here, the abusers. So peacekeeping is it’s seen as noble or a good thing in the family of origin. But it comes back and bites us in the ass when we are in an abusive relationship. And it’s important to recognize what was your role? What was your role in the family? Were you the peacekeeper? Were you the one that was trying to make all these impossible people behave?

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And we get that not good enough, not good enough, not good enough thing when we can’t make them behave. I know! It’s a no-win situation. So, you’re told you’re the Peacekeeper you’re being demanded to go into the situation and fix it. Right? Fixing people pleasing, hello, can’t fix it, can’t make them behave, therefore you’re not good enough, and guess what your internal critic is going to do. And it’s the same thing when we get involved with an abuser. So, you’re not the UN.

Frankly, the UN doesn’t do a great job in peacekeeping either. So, the point being is, if you see that your role is the Peacekeeper or the clown, or any other role. Take a look at that. Start investigating. What were your childhood roles? If you were the Peacekeeper, how much of you did you give up? How much of you did you lose? You know, what do you Who were you before you got involved with the abuser that’s where you want to get back to if you had confidence before the abuser, that’s what you want to start working on. And that’s why it’s important to work on the codependency because the codependency is connected to the childhood roles, right? Because we’re doing things to try to make things smooth and make other people happy, etc., etc., etc. And the self-esteem. Everything’s connected to self-esteem. It’s all connected. We are all one. It is true. We are all one and it is all connected. And really the key to this is getting rid of the codependency, getting rid of the roles that we played, especially the Peacekeeper one, I think, in a super dysfunctional family. The worst one is the second spouse because the second husband, second wife, because there’s so much going on. Also, emotional incest going on. The next worst one could be either the scapegoat or the Peacekeeper because the scapegoat is never right. Can’t do anything, right, everything’s wrong. And then the Peacekeeper is put into this position of if you don’t fix it, you’re a bad person.

This is all no-win situations, guys. All of these roles are no-win situations. The only person that’s winning in this is the frickin Narcissus. So, the best way to win is to not play. So, if you recognize yourself in any of these childhood roles because remember, abusers can’t hang with, what’s the word I’m looking for? They can’t hang with who the kid is, right? So, they had to put us in these boxes that they can label. So, like mine was, I was the cute stupid one. So, you know, and my sister was, you know, the oldest one was the golden child. And the next one was, you know, the brilliant one, and you know all of this. So, they can’t handle who a person is because a person is multifaceted, right? They have all sorts of different facets to them. And a narcissist can deal with that because they don’t have those facets. They can’t understand emotions, they can’t feel emotions, they can’t love, they can’t, you know, and so they put kids into these neat little boxes that they can easily manipulate and easily use and easily harm and everything else.

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So, you want to take a look at what box did they put you in? What role did you play in your family? And can you start working on that with a therapist and if you can’t get a therapist get The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor. Okay, I just said that Hello.

The Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi The Disease to Please by Harriet Brakier. Any other book on codependency would be really good. CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, and start working on breaking up those boxes, breaking them down. They’re not yours, get rid of them that this, this is not who you are. This is who you are, you are way bigger than whatever your abuser has told you, you were. So, take a look at the childhood roles. Take a look at the peacekeeping and notice how much you try to do it in your everyday life. As we’re coming up on Thanksgiving and Christmas. You don’t have to be the Peacekeeper, and if somebody asks you to say, no! No, that is your word. No is, no is your word from here on out. No is a powerful word. You don’t have to just because they tell you to. And I think a lot of us get into that trap of Oh, well. But mom wants me to go in there and make aunt Bertha and Aunt Martha get along. No, not your job, make mom do it. You know, not my job, Mom, you want to get along you talk to him. She’s not going to like it. But oh, well, you can always leave. You don’t have to stay if you get into a situation where the family is just behaving like a bunch of feral, rabid ferrets leave, you don’t have to stay you don’t!! You’re under no obligation, fear, obligation, guilt. So, you cannot force people to don’t want to behave, to behave. And take a look at how that peacekeeping plays out in your everyday life. What is your role at work? So usually when we get into work situations, and I will get to the questions, I know I’m going over.

When we get into a work situation, we tend to take those childhood roles into a group situation with us and we find ourselves repeating the behavior in a different situation. So, if you’re at work, and you find that you’re the Peacekeeper, you need to stop, not your job. There is not enough money in the world to pay you for that. Do you see where I’m going with that?

So anyway, that is, you’re not the UN, it is not your job. Look at the childhood roles that you’ve been forced into, take a look at the family of origin, if they are toxic, and you don’t enjoy being with them and you’re dreading going to Thanksgiving, or you’re dreading going to Christmas, don’t go do your own thing. Or if you go, and they start trying to force you into those family roles again, say no and mean it No. And I mean it, and you either stop, or I’m leaving.

There you go. And then, if they don’t stop, you leave. So, follow-through is really important.

Anyway, there’s that it’s stupid what they do to us, it’s stupid what they do to us as kids because it then affects us as adults and either affects us in a romantic relationship, where we just keep giving and giving and giving and giving and trying to fix, trying to fix trying to fix, trying to fix, trying to fix, it, eventually, in some cases kills us, or it emotionally kills us or it, you know, exhausts us or whatever, or we get into a situation where we can’t fix it and we somehow think it’s us as opposed to them.

So, there it is, you’re not the UN. You don’t have to be the Peacekeeper, it’s a terrible job, resign the benefits suck. You don’t need to do it. Okay, so and take a look at the family roles. That would be my suggestion. Take a look at what your family role is. And how does that play out in your everyday life? Start working on that you don’t have to do that that is not who you are. That is not who you are who they told you were not who you are. And that’s what I invite you to discover is who are you know really what is your role in this world? What do you want to be doing? You know and that’s the fun part is when you finally start recognizing your worth Glenn Schiraldi self-esteem workbook, your boundaries the disease to please Harriet breaker, you know, and the fact that this stuff all belongs to the abuser  CPTSD from surviving to thriving Pete Walker, you know, and you’re free. That’s, that’s where I want you to get so okay, there that is Oh, so this this article was you the relationship peacekeeper? How to tell if you have true emotional intimacy, and this is by Ann Smith, and that’s on psychology today. And it has all the different childhood roles which are Wait, is this the one with all the childhood roles? No, the other one was the one with the childhood roles. So anyway, it’s a good article, but both of them are good articles. So okay, let’s dive into the questions, shall we?

Okay, let me make this bigger so I can actually see it. There we go. Um, I’ve started grieving my narcissistic mom who’s still alive. Oh, I’m sorry. Yes. I feel so guilty about it. Does it ever get easier? Yeah, it does. The hardest grief you will ever do is grieving the loss of somebody who is still walking the face of this planet. I know, it’s…. So, when we are dealing with really separating ourselves from an abuser, especially a parental abuser. It’s hard because the inner child desperately wants that person to love us and protect us and apologize and this that the other thing, and it’s never going to happen. So, you want to work on the inner child workbook, you want to self-esteem, you want to get with a good therapist and start working through this stuff. Does it get easier? Yes, it does. No contact. And let me be clear because I’ve had some people try to argue with me on this. And I’m just like, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Please be quiet and sit down. No Contact is no contact, it means you’re done. It means you’re not talking to them ever. It’s not used to make them see the error of their ways. A narcissist and abuser is never not on this or any other planet Earth. Going to see the error of their ways ever. They will never they have never done a wrong thing in their lives as far as they are concerned. My dad’s favorite saying was I’m not lost. I’m only temporarily confused or I’m not wrong. I’m only temporarily confused. He could never admit to being wrong. He could never admit to being lost in the car, which is why we were lost out in the woods in the middle of a creek one time don’t get me started. So anyway, the point being, is that yes, it does get easier, but initially, when you go, no contact.

It is incredibly painful. The oxytocins are going nuts, especially if it was a romantic relationship. In this case, it was a parental relationship. So, there’s all that fear, obligation, and guilt, that is what you need to work on the fog. And anytime those thoughts pop up, oh, you need to be obligated you owe her or, you know, how dare you she’s going to punish you or you feel so guilty? How dare you? How dare you not talk to your mom? Okay, I hear you, I see you. And here’s every rotten thing this woman ever did to me, I have gone no contact, I am going to stay no contact. Buh Bye. Buh bye now buh bye, go pound sand. But you just got to keep working through that guilt and that fear and that obligation. And like I said, grieving the loss of somebody who is still walking the planet is really hard. So, what I suggest is you treat it as if she were dead. Nope. mom’s dead.

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Ex-Boyfriend dead. Ex friend dead. I will grieve this loss; I am grieving the loss of the illusion of who I thought they were. I cannot change them, I cannot fix them, I cannot help them. It is beyond my means. It would literally take a biblical proportion kind of thing for them to change. So that’s one way to do it, as you grieve it like a physical loss. Like they’re dead, they’re gone. You know, because that person, if they’re a narcissist, if their abuser if they’re toxic, they’re not, they’re never going to be the person you want them to be. Essentially, that person is dead to you. So that’s one way to help you kind of start working through that. Write and burn letters! Write a goodbye letter. Dear Mom, the good may or may not have been any, you know, I can think of a very few things that are good about my dad. He gave me a love of history, you know, okay, here’s the good dad gave me a love of history. That’s great. You know, you did you know make us tour of the United States every summer. That’s also great. Here’s the bad and then it was like, you know, an entire book worth, you know, so you do the good, the bad, the ugly, the horrific, the unforgivable. And at the very, very end, you take your power back. You may have given birth to me, mom, but guess what, I’m going to reraise myself. I’m going to love myself the way I should have been loved. I’m going to validate myself the way I should have been validated. I’m going to be kind to myself the way I should have been kind to. And you do not get to live rent free in my head. One more moment. Goodbye, go pound sand. You’re dead to me. You are dead to me. How dare you treat me the way you did. I’m taking my power back. You don’t get to live in my head. I’m evicting you. Goodbye. Trot it out to the barbecue. Read it now. By once, burn it, or if you want the sensation of having mailed it, mail it back to yourself, do not send it. Do not send it nothing good ever comes out of that. So, yeah, it does get easier over time. Don’t feel guilty, I know you’re going to and that’s okay. Um

So minimizing so how do I break the I’m so mean, I’m a terrible daughter, she wasn’t that abusive. So, here’s the deal.

She was abusive, if you felt she was abusive, she was abusive. There is no, it’s kind of it’s like being sort of pregnant, she was only sort of abusive, no, she was abusive. That’s how you stop that thought. It’s like, Ah, no, she was abusive, let’s, let’s just call it for what it was. That’s why I want you to write it out. So, you can see it. So, you can be like, Whoa, okay, there it is, you know, the guilt is going to pop up. And again, we have this whole societal thing. And this is what Oh, lord. This is what makes me so angry is when people find out that somebody has gone no contact with an abusive parent, they immediately whip out the Honor thy mother and father, and the very next line is parents do not bring your children to anger. It’s a two-way street, even in the Bible. So, and they’re flying monkeys, if they’re telling you are demanding that you be in a relationship with a parent, that’s abusive, they’re a flying monkey, they’re showing you who they are. They’re aligning themselves with the aggressor. Give them the middle finger, and tell them goodbye. Bye. Bye now, buh bye. And you cut them off too? So yeah, there’s that like a little angry about people to do that. Because, you know, try to make people feel guilty for going no contact with an abusive parent. So, don’t minimize, we have a tendency to minimize we do. Because that’s a that’s a defense thing. It’s kind of like well it wasn’t that bad. Well, other families… No, this is not a competition. This is not about other families. It’s about what you went through. So don’t minimize it. Do not! Get with a good therapist work on that. Okay.

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I’m an adult. My mom hates my dad and uses me as her therapist. Oh, my God. Okay. My mom did the same thing. I’m so sorry. I am so sorry. I went through the same thing. How to screw up your kid and two easy steps. Make them your therapist. Yeah. Um, one easy step. So, what you’re going to have to do is draw boundaries, your mom is not going to like that. My mom did not like that. And she tried to guilt trip me. I don’t know how old you are. But if you’re an adult, you’re just going to have to tell her No, Mom, I don’t want to hear this. You need a therapist to talk to, not me, I can’t handle it. Not my job.

Now she’s going to see that as a betrayal if she’s disordered, if she’s disordered, she’s going to see it as a betrayal. She’s going to see it as that you’re not on her side, etc., etc., etc. And you have to be very clear. It’s like I am not taking sides on this. This is between you and Dad; you need a therapist. I can’t handle this.

Now, if you’re a minor, living at home, and they’re using you as a therapist, as my mom did with me, I was a minor when she did this. I did start standing up to her and saying I can’t deal with this. I can’t I mean, I was freaking suicidal when I was a teenager because my parents were crazy. So, you know what I’m saying? So, you just keep saying no, and you just know not listening. Thank you very much, and not my problem. Go get a therapist do you see where I’m going with that. So, you’re just going to have to keep saying no and drawing boundaries, whether you’re an adult or whether your kids just keep saying no and drawing boundaries, no and drawing boundaries. I can’t hear this. Talk to some therapist. I’m not listening to this. You know, and if she gets butthurt and tries to take it off, or well, you’re siding with your dad, this has nothing to do with dad. I can’t handle this. This is damaging me stop. So that’s how I would help a lot. That’s how I did handle out and demand that she go see a therapist and don’t listen to her. Just keep saying no.

Okay. My family wants me to stop therapy because I’ve gone low to no contact with them. Good for you. And they’re telling me that my getting healthy is tearing the family apart. Holy. Oh, jump back. Okay. You’re getting healthy is tearing the family apart? Because it can anybody hear the irony of that? So, what happens in dysfunctional families is when the scapegoat or whoever starts getting healthy. Yes, that dysfunctional family starts scrambling to find another scapegoat and they start turning on each other and it gets ugly. Not your problem. Don’t you dare stop therapy. You just keep going. You get yourself super healthy and whatever happens to them is their problem. It’s their problem. It is not your problem. It is their problem. So, the number of times I’ve had clients that were still heavily connected to the abusive families come in and go, huh? My family wants me to stop there because they say it’s because, well, now they’re all fighting against each other and blah, blah, blah, okay, good. Let them stop having contact with them. You know, you just you just don’t you, you just keep working on you. You just keep getting healthy. That’s beautiful.

So yeah, this is what dysfunctional families do if somebody is getting healthy and drawing boundaries, oh, yeah, the dysfunctional families do not like it, no to low contact, low to no contact is great. No Contact is perfect. So yeah, they won’t like it. Because they’re losing control. They’re losing control. And now they have to find another scapegoat. And now they have to find other forms of entertainment scape goats are the greatest entertainment to these people. peacekeepers are the greatest entertainment to these people because they can throw all their stuff onto them, they can project all their stuff onto and if you’re gone, they have to find somebody else. And, of course, it’s going to cause, you know, a lot of turmoil in the dysfunctional family. Good. You don’t need to deal with it, not your problem. Now, what I’ve seen abusive families do is then use the kids, the other the siblings, and be like, you know, taking it out on one of the younger siblings, and then that older sibling who stepped away and has gotten healthy, then goes, Oh, my God, I need to go back to protect them.

46:16

You can’t hon, again. You’re stepping in to try to save a sibling. And you can’t as long as that sibling is a minor, there is nothing you can do and what they will do is they will then go back to either abusing you, or both of you. So, the best thing you can do to help that sibling is to get the hell away, report appropriately if needed to CPS, DPS, you know, Child Protective Services Department and Children’s Services. They keep changing their names, put lipstick on a pig, it’s still the same thing. You know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s like so report appropriately. And that’s the best way to help them so that when that sibling can leave, you’ve got yourself established that maybe then you can help them. Does that make sense? That’s kind of what my older sister did for me. Okay, hold on. Let’s go to the next question.

Okay, yeah, keep going to therapy, keep going to therapy.

I’ve had trouble with multiple therapists, where they don’t believe that I still don’t understand basic things about being an independent person. Any suggestions? Finding a good therapist? Well, did they ever ask you about your family of origin? Did they ever talk to you about that stuff? So, you know, not understanding basic things. Abusive families don’t teach their kids anything like seriously, like the number of children, adult children now raised by narcissists or neglectful or harmful or hurtful or toxic families that don’t know basic things like dental health care, like not knowing how to brush their teeth, not knowing how to bathe, like, seriously, like, I’m not kidding you. Because what abusers do is they will literally let the kid raise themselves, which I’m just like, Why did you have children? Well, they had children to connect themselves to a supply for 18 years. That’s why they had children. So, they will throw the kid to the wild under the bus and basically let them raise themselves. And so, the kid doesn’t understand dental hygiene. They don’t brush their teeth twice a day and their teeth, are falling out of their head. Because they don’t do good dental hygiene. They don’t brush their teeth. They don’t floss. They don’t know how to bathe. They don’t yeah, yes. Yes, that because the narcissistic parent basically expects the kid to raise themselves, they basically expect the kid to figure it all out on their own. The kid needs to be taught that that’s what being a parent is, is you are a teacher. Hello. You’re teaching the child how to in this world, you’re handing them tools, and abusive parents don’t do that. So, if that is your situation, you need to get with a good therapist that understands trauma, understands narcissistic abuse, and understands that narcissistic parents if there’s two narcissists, together which can happen. Or if there’s two disordered people together, they will throw the kid in the room and expect them to raise themselves and not give them tools like dental hygiene, washing themselves, how to balance a bank account, how to you know how to do a job interview, how to write a resume, how to drive a car. Oh, Lord, that’s one of the big ones. Oh, I don’t want my son or daughter driving. No, no, I don’t want driving so they don’t ever let them drive. Why? Because then they can’t get in the car and drive the hell away from them. That’s why so yeah, it’s really it’s really important to get with somebody who understands Yeah, these people have hobbled a lot of their kids in a lot of different ways, some more severely than others. So

50:00

For me, personally, I always the hygiene I had down. But the social stuff, I didn’t always have down, you know, because they were crazy. And they didn’t know how to socialize, and they didn’t know how to behave, and they didn’t know how to, you know, fill in the blanks. So, um, so yeah, so you want to get with somebody who is a good trauma therapist that understands narcissistic abuse and understands the ways that these bio parents because they’re not parents, they’re not teaching us anything. Hobble they’re kids. And like I said, that can be anything from hygiene to driving to social to balancing a bank account, to whatever so yeah, and you just, you know, find somebody who’s a good trauma therapist, a good trauma therapist should understand that. Okay.

All right. Let’s see, um, doo doo doo doo. doo. And you just want to ask them a bunch of questions. You just want to you know; do you understand trauma? Do you understand narcissistic abuse? Do you understand? And if they don’t, don’t go to what you want to find a trauma therapist that gets it.

Okay, in a semi-grieving process with my dog right now, since he’s been diagnosed with cancer, Oh, honey, I’m sorry. Oh, difficulty imagining life without him until it happens. Going back and forth between a form of acceptance and denial. That’s normal. That is totally normal. What happens? It’ll have to be okay. Uh, whatever happens, it will have to be okay. But how do I accept it and cope with trying to save my dog? I’m sorry, I’m going to tear up.

So, you guys know that I’m a total dog lover, I’ve had dogs my entire life. And in March, our Scotty passed, he had cancer. And we knew it was inevitable, we knew he was going to, he was going to die at some point. And he started getting worse, you know, he got these tumors on his back and on his butt you know, things like that. And we basically just decided that we were going to make the best for him in his final months, you know.

And he did great. I mean, he literally was so funny. It’s like, he did really great up until like, the last week or so. And then he kind of lost control of his bowels. And that’s when he went, Okay. Quality of life for him is now going he’s having a harder time standing up. The tumors are bleeding. He’s losing control of his bowels, okay. And we, accepting it as hard. It is, there are babies, there are babies, they’re just, I’m sorry.

So, balancing between acceptance and denial is normal. That’s exactly what John and I did. You know, it was kind of like always doing better, you know, that kind of thing. And he would for a while, and then he would have bad days and, and things like that. So, it’s… mortality is hard. Mortality is hard. Because when our loved ones die, dogs, family, friends, it brings the reality of our own mortality home to us. And for our pets, which are our family, as far as I’m concerned. I mean, they’re, they’re my kids. You’d make it as comfortable and wonderful as possible. And when the quality of life is gone, that’s when you let them go. You know, when they’re no longer enjoying it, when they are no longer, you know, peppy? And you know, and especially if they’ve got cancer, and they’re in pain, the quality of life goes, you let them go. And it’s hard. It is so hard. When our vet, we had a wonderful vet that came to the house, and that’s the only way I would do it because then you didn’t have the terror of having to lift them up and take him in the car to the vet. The vet came out. We fed him his favorite meal, which was

A cheeseburger and french fries. That’s his favorite treat. And, you know, we just let them know we loved him, and she administered the shots and went really peacefully. And I still miss him. I still miss him. He was a little stinker. But of all of our dogs. I got to tell you, Scotty was the most difficult and he lived the longest, which actually took like, what are you doing, God? But he was he had a lot of behavioral issues. We found him he was a stray. You had a lot of behavioral issues. He managed to bike all of us in the family.

54:52

He was a challenge. And he was a really good dog and when he was good, he was great at when he was having a moment he wasn’t. But, you know, a lot of people would have probably given him up or abandoned him. And my attitude is, is when you take on a dog you take on the dog behavioral issues and all. So, um, and people always laugh. They’re like, you’re a therapist, and you have a dog. That’s crazy. And I’m like, whoa, yeah, it kind of makes sense. So, accepting, and denial, it’s part of the grieving process. So, there’s the five stages of grief, and they’re not linear.

Because there would be some days when I’d be like, okay with it, and other days when I’d be like, Oh, no. bargaining. So, there’s like, acceptance, denial, shock, bargaining. Anger. Yeah. So, you kind of flip back and forth between those. And it’s not linear. It’s more like, yeah, you know, and up that way. So, losing a dog is really hard, because they’re dependent on us. And it’s just like I said, it’s like, you just enjoy them. And until their quality of life has gone, and then when their quality of life has gone, then you do the right thing, and you let them go. And you grieve, and you grieve. And like I said, there are still I mean, John and I, what were we doing the other day, we were walking, and we saw something, and we were like, oh Scotty would really love that. Or, you know, Scotty, would you know whatever Kyle would or, you know, one of the other dogs that we’d had over the years. And so, you’re always going to love them, and you’re always going to miss them. And it’s normal. It’s normal. And I swear to God, when two people are like, Oh, it’s just a dog. Why are you grieving over a dog. This was my child. I don’t have kids, I got dogs, you know. So don’t let anybody shame you for grieving over a dog. Don’t ever let anybody shame you for grieving over any life that is lost. You know, life is beautiful. And dogs are beautiful, and they’re wonderful. And they’re so loving, and they’re so unconditional. That’s the thing that I love the most about them is that if you want to see unconditional love, get a dog. Seriously. So, you’re not wrong, sweetie. And it’s, it’s hard. Losing a dog is really hard. And I’m really sorry. And cancer is hard because it’s not fair. You will be okay.

So right now, just know that you are doing the best you can for your pup, and there’s going to be good days and there’s going to be bad days. And you know, the cancer is eventually going to, unfortunately

make him go or her go over the rainbow bridge.

And you just grieve, and you just acknowledge it, but you enjoy them while they’re here. So just, you know, take them out for walks, feed them their favorite treats, you know, just enjoy them while they’re here and just allow just allow whatever emotion comes up, even the anger, you know, occasionally I would get mad at God. It’s like, Why? Why are all these horrible?

57:48

People allowed to live these amazingly long lives and dogs get to be here for 15 If you’re lucky if no

one is up. So yeah, just allow. Just allow, just allow, just allow, it’s okay. It’s totally okay. And again, I am so sorry about your puppy. I’m sorry that that really sucks. I’m sorry that it is hard to imagining life without them. And then one other bit of advice I would give you is allow yourself to grieve because John and I were not ready to adopt until recently now we’re kind of kind of going okay. I think we’re ready. It’s been what is it nine months or so? And we miss having a dog we do we miss it for two reasons. One, the dogs were always great at making us get out and walk three times a day, get out and walk you know, and to I miss coming home to a dog, you know, it’s like that unconditional love. Just go for a walk, you know, that kind of thing. So, give yourself time to grieve. Give yourself time to grieve. A lot of people are like, oh, get a dog immediately. And I’m like, no, I can’t I just I need to grieve. So, allow yourself, allow yourself to grieve. Okay, one more question, then I think we’re done.

Okay. How do you prove to yourself that it’s okay to be successful? Okay, so what you’re going to do is mirror work, you’re going to do mirror work, so it’s not proving It’s believing! I know. So, think about it. If we if you tell a kid often enough that they’re stupid, the kid is going to start acting stupid. If you tell a kid often enough that they don’t deserve success or they have no worth or whatever. We’re going to grow up believing that we don’t deserve success and we have no worth. So, work the self-esteem workbook like nobody’s business. Glen Schiraldi the self-esteem workbook, there is a section in there on your value and your worth. Do you understand you have value and worth worth on that? Because that’s all interconnected with being successful because being successful and having value and worth all kinds of one, you know what I’m saying? So do me your work. Hi. Good to see you. Have a great day. I guess

give you permission to be successful, and then walk out and do that every damn day, seriously. And then at night, you’re going to do the same thing, a little bit of a twist. Hey, good to see you again, here are three things you did right today, or here are three things you were successful at today. And you remind yourself, and then hey, you know what? It’s okay for you to go to bed. It’s okay for you to sleep well have a great night, go to bed. Do you see where I’m going with that? So that’s what you want to do. It’s not about proving to yourself; it’s about really allowing yourself and really recognizing your own worth. Okay. And in the last half of this, I’m starting my second semester in college, congratulations. And I’m constantly having panic attacks because I’m doing well. Oh my god, I’m so proud of you. That is freaking awesome. Not that you’re having the panic attacks, but you’re doing well. That’s awesome. The self-sabotage hits hard. So, what you’re going to want to do is you’re going to want to do a challenge letter.

Who told you it wasn’t okay to be successful? Who told you wasn’t okay to enjoy college? Who told you? It wasn’t, okay? Dear, whoever it was, your mom, your dad, your grandparents do whatever. Bleep the bleep bleep bleep out a bleeping middle finger to you. Thank you very much. I get to be successful. Why? Because I say so.

It’s okay for me to enjoy college. It’s okay for me to be successful. I do not need to self-sabotage. You taught me all of this…I’m putting it back on you CPTSD from surviving to thriving P Walker. The self-esteem workbook Glen Schiraldi. Absolutely. Write and burn challenge letters to this. You have the right to be successful. And you can tell yourself that in the mirror, I have the right to be successful. It’s okay for me to be successful. So that’s what I want you to do. Oh, my goodness. Thank you. So yeah, it’s challenging those mistaken thoughts. So, CBT, right? Cognitive behavioral therapy, challenging the mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, this is a mistaken thought. This is a mistaken belief. This isn’t even your thought. This is theirs. Put it back on it, put it back on, it’s not yours. I have the right to be successful. And guys, I’ve had to do that my entire life because I’ve had to undo all of the BS that my mom and dad gave me. I have the right to be successful. I have the right to not feel shame all the time. I have the right to fill in the blank. So that’s what you want to do get with a good therapist. You know, there should be therapists available on the college campus. Work on self-esteem, get the Schiraldi book work on that. It can only help. So yeah, and it’s challenging those mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, and then putting them to bed. So, there it is. Alright, my loves, you guys. Go have a great week and I will talk to you later. Bye.

1:02:58

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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The post 10-30-2022 You Are Not the UN. Stop Peace Keeping. appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:02

Okay, so, today’s show. So today is when the parent is the enabler and when I was preparing for this show, I got triggered. So, trigger warning, trigger warning, trigger warning just letting you know. So, when we come out of and this is dealing with family of origin, this is dealing with our childhood, okay. Not necessarily us in a romantic relationship with an abuser, but us as adult children of abusive parents, okay.

So, when we come out of a family of origin, where there is somebody who’s disordered and there is the other parent, that’s a little bit saner, but they’re still playing the game. They’re an enabler. So, let’s talk about what enablers and the reason I want to bring this up is because so many people have, you know, instant messaged me, sent me messages sent me text sent me emails, you know, I don’t get it. Why am I going for the same type over and over and over and over and over again? Why am I continuingly? Dating different faiths, different names, same behavior, you know, so it has to do with our family of origin. And it has to do with the inner child. So, when we are in a dysfunctional family, okay, so the family is dysfunctional. We don’t necessarily know it because the family the dysfunctional family, has normalized it the dysfunctional family has said, Oh, no, every single family is like this. Oh, no. All the families do this. Well, let me just clue you into something. Abuse is not normal. Abuse is not natural abuse does not happen in every single family. Does every family have its issues? To be sure, but not every family has got incest, verbal abuse, physical abuse, religious abuse, sexual abuse, you know, emotional abuse. Yeah, not every family has got that going on. But what a dysfunctional family of origin will do is they will say, Oh, no, every family is like this. Oh, no, you don’t see the pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room. You’re the problem, not the pink elephant. And so we start normalizing the abuse even though in our heads we know this is not normal if you want a really good example “What’s Wrong With Your Dad?” this is about me growing up in a completely effed up dysfunctional oh my god, alcoholic addicted family. And, you know, the, the process the journey that I went through to get from point A to here so, um, What’s Wrong With Your Dad? Anyway, so the point being is, is that when we’re in it, and when I was in it, and when we’re all in it, we cannot see the forest through the trees. It is normal to us to have the chaos to have the dysfunction to have the knock down drag out fights to have the hitting to have the verbal abuse, the abuse of alcohol or drugs to have that is all been normalized to us. And we’re told by the enabling parent Oh no, this is normal. Oh, no, every family does this. Oh, no, you you don’t see the pink elephant No, no.

So then what happens is, is that the main abuser so let’s say one of the parents is really batshimomo crazy and is the main abuser and the other one is ineffectual. kowtows to the abuser, doesn’t stand up for the kids doesn’t protect them, doesn’t, you know, do the right thing kind of thing and just allows the abuse and what I’ve seen is that the abuser will start abusing and the ineffectual parent will make an excuse to leave and not even be there when the abuse is happening. Or they’re standing right there as the abuse is happening and the kid is looking at the parent going help me save me. And this parent refuses or flips the script and starts abusing with the abuser. That’s the other thing I’ve seen happen. So, this is why I’m saying this whole topic has been very triggering for me. And I apologize if you guys get triggered, just, you know, go do something else for a while, come back and we’ll, it’ll, it’ll be okay. So basically, in my family of origin, my mom didn’t participate in the abuse, but she knew damn good And well, it was happening, you know, for example, the worst abuse that happened are the worst. The worst known Actually, no, she was around for a lot of it. So, you know, my dad would hit me just out of the blue, just to he would get pissed. And he would just turn around and just backhand me half the times, because I probably said something truthful. So, you know, that he didn’t like, and the other half of the time, he was sexually abusing me and my sisters, and my mother was well aware of this. So, it wasn’t like, I didn’t know now she knew she absolutely knew. And she was only too happy to abdicate that part of her relationship with her husband with her abuser. To the girls to us, she was willing to sacrifice us on the altar of her comfort, so that she stayed safe, and she was comfortable. But we were getting abused. So, and she knew it was happening. You know, my dad used to barge into the bathroom and ogle us when we were, you know, taking a shower, or he would, you know, I went out one time to show him a new dress I bought and he grabbed me and French kissed me. And then like looked me up and down. Like he couldn’t wait to you know, do something. My mom was standing at the window, and she saw the whole thing I came in, I confronted her and I said, Look, he just did this, what are you going to do, and she got that sick little smile on her face. And it was like nothing, I’m not gonna do anything. And that’s when I was like, I gotta get out of here because he’s, he’s eventually going to rape me if I don’t leave. So and I was think I was what 16 When that happened? 15, 16. So that is what an enabler does the enabler knows the abuse is going on, and does nothing, nothing or worse, they know the abuse is going on. And they join in.

Kris Godinez  07:23

So what that tells the kid and my mom actually said these words better you than me.

Kris Godinez  07:31

Better you than me. I’m sorry, a parent’s job, their whole job, you had one job, you had one job, and you fricked it up. Your job as a parent is to protect those kids. Now, why does this happen? Why does the enabler turn a blind eye? Engage in the abuse? You know, Better you than me all of this crap. Because you’re dealing with somebody who is not operating on the level of an adult, you’re not you’re not dealing with somebody who’s operating on the level of an adult. So, when my mom and I started working through all of this stuff, all of her abuse started coming out. Now this does not excuse it, it absolutely does not excuse her behavior. And I told her that I said this does not excuse it. It sure as hell explains it, but it does not excuse it. So, in her case, she was sexually molested by her step grandfather. Her mother was a narcissist, my grandmother Bertha, who I call another b word, but not Bertha. So anyway, the point being is, is that my grandmother was abusive, her. Her parents, her mom’s step, dad, step husband, whatever, sexually abused my mom. My mom married my dad who was crazy, obviously borderline and narcissistic. And so she just abdicated, it was like Better you than me. She actually said that. And at that point in time, when we were talking through this, she said she was about four years old in her head, and I believe her. I totally believe her. Now, this does not excuse their turning a blind eye. But it certainly makes a hell of a lot more sense than thinking you’re dealing with an adult, a rational adult who is conscious and aware and awake. I can guarantee you at that moment in time my mom was four years old, didn’t know what to do. Scared out of her mind wanted to protect herself now do I excuse that? No, no absofreakinglutely not! No, no, no, no, no! She’s 100% responsible for allowing the abuse to continue 100% But now I understand as an adult What the freak was going on here. Because in my head at the time, I was like, why are you not protecting me? And so in my mind, my kid mind I was 15, 16 years old. It was oh, I’m not worthy of protection. Oh, well, this is what I deserve. Oh, well, clearly my mom who’s the saner of the two which is not saying much when you really think about it. But the saner of the two is not willing to protect me. So, what’s my worth? Because remember, parents whole job you got one job, parents, that’s to protect your kids and give them a sense of self. Okay? Two jobs, protect the kids and give them a sense of self. Okay, three jobs, protect the kids, give them a sense of self and make sure they have all the basic needs, you know. So, the point being is is that the parents, how our parents treat us, how our parents treated us becomes our inner dialogue, it becomes either our cheerleader or our inner critic. And as kids, we have a tendency to make a lot of mistaken assumptions about who we are about our worth in the world, based off of what our parents said, and did.

So, I found a great article online called Better you than me by Jay Read. He is an LPC. He’s got a blog on there, and it’s called better than you than me going unprotected from narcissistic abuse by the enabler parent. Okay, um, so what I wanted to hit was, okay, um, alright, sometimes tragically, something unnatural happens in families, a child is born to someone motivated by something other than the human connection. Instead, this person wants to see others, even his or her own children suffer that would be a narcissist. They prize the feeling of power and control they have to when controlling and dominating another human being. This becomes so valued that no appeal to morality will impede them. In my practice, most of the clients who survived such vicious upbringings had one primary abusive parent and the other was the enabler parent. And the typically less overtly abusive, but passive and compliant in the face of the other parent’s abuse. So, today’s blog will be discussed, discussed surviving and recovering. So, sins of omission. So, what he talks about is what it looks like. And what it looks like is exactly what I just described, you know, the abuse happening. And the enabler, either checking out leaving, or you know, what’s the word? I’m looking for? Plausible denial, that kind of thing. Like, oh, I didn’t see it, or oh, I wasn’t there, even though they were there when it started, or worse, them joining in on it or worse, the kid coming to the parent, how many of us raise your hand? How many of us have gone to the saner parent and said, Dad or Mom is abusing me? I don’t know what to do help me and guess what that parent does? They either minimize it, deny it, tell you you’re a liar or tell you that you miss understood. I’m sorry. It’s kind of hard to misunderstood a backhand at the dinner table when you didn’t do anything wrong. Or to misunderstand your father shoving their tongue down your throat that is there’s no misunderstanding there. I’m sorry. But what that does is gaslighting.

So, then they gaslight us Okay, so what does that do? What does it do to an adult? Think about it when somebody tells you you’re lying minimizes gaslights you. Rewrites history tells you, you miss understood when you know

Kris Godinez  13:31

higher power well that you did not misunderstand. So, what that does is that invalidates us that invalidates our gut instinct. Oh, isn’t that interesting. So then as adults, we get the distinct message either verbally like I did better you than me or non-verbally I’m not going to do anything because I’m going to get in trouble so I’m going to sacrifice you for my safety. So, we get that message that we’re not worth saving. And because we had a difficult relationship with probably both parents I had a difficult relationship with both it wasn’t a walk through the park with my mom either. But at least it was an abusive as my dad and she was willing to work on it once he was dead. So that was good.

Um, but the point being is, is that when we have that kind of effed up messed up relationship with our parents, the inner child, the inner child is now running the show, okay? Because we literally stopped developing at whatever age that abuse occurred and then we try to fix it, try to fix it, try to fix it, try to fix it. How can I make them stop abusing me? How can I make them listen to me? How can I make them love me? How can I… and this my friends is the beginning of codependency and this is where we get it and this is also why when we go out into the world well I left home when I was 17 Cuz I didn’t, you know, that was that was as soon as I could get away, after dad did that I was like, I gotta make my escape plans, I got to get out. And I did. And I left and I started working catering jobs, and I started working as a waitress and I started working or whatever I had to in order to get the bleep away. Okay, and I’m glad I did. Um, but that once I went out into the world, I’ll give you three guesses what kind of guys I dated, they were all Bob juniors seriously. Every single last one of them with the exception of maybe two, were my dad. And I was working through my dad. And if I wasn’t working through my dad, guess who else I dated? My mom. So, it was like, either I was dating somebody who reminded me of my dad or I was dating somebody that reminded me of my mom.

And it wasn’t until I really got into therapy, now I started therapy when I was in high school, but my dad put a stop to it. Big surprise. I went back to therapy when I was in college, helpful, but not enough, they didn’t really understand trauma. And they certainly weren’t looking at personality disorders and trauma at that time in that particular school that I was at. So then when I went to Oregon, I got with Fabian Smith, who was a counselor up there, and we started plowing through all of the abuse and all of the BS that I had to put up with as a kid, it took about seven years. So, you know, and that’s when I kind of went, Oh, I want to help people. And that’s when I started working on my getting my psychology stuff going. So anyway, the point being is that until we deal with that inner child, that inner child is going to look outside of us, because this is the question I’ve got, why do I keep dating over and over again? Why do I keep dating the same people over and over again? What am I doing? It’s your inner child. It’s your inner child. And it’s your self-esteem, it’s your lack of self-esteem. So, when we really understand our worth, and that we did not deserve any of that BS that we had to go through, we did not deserve to be screamed at, we did not deserve to be hit. We did not deserve to be sexually molested; we did not deserve to be religiously abused; we did not deserve any of this stuff.

And, and this was the hard one for me to get. My mom was just as abusive as my dad in a different way. They were both dysfunctional. And that one was so hard for me to wrap my head around, because the little kid inside of me desperately needed one parent, Dear God, just one that actually had my best interest at heart. And the reality of it was, they did not. Neither one of them, neither one of them. Dad had whatever weirdness was going on with him, and my mom had her own interests at heart.

Kris Godinez  17:51

And that’s heartbreaking for a child and inner child, an adult child to recognize when you finally are able to go, oh, neither one of them. Yeah, both parents were nut jobs. You betcha. You betcha not gonna deny that they were absolutely both parents were nut jobs. So, you know, when you really realize that when you’re really able to sink that in and go, neither one of them had my back. That’s when the healing begins. Because when I’m working with people that have been abused, oftentimes what will happen is somebody will come in and sit on my couch, tell me, Oh, I’ve been through all of these relationships, all of these, you know, terrible, abusive relationships. And then I ask them about their childhood. And they start telling me that they had a perfect childhood. And I’m sitting here going, does not compute, you are telling me this, but then you’re telling me this. And then eventually, as they become safe enough, they start telling the truth, telling the whole story, you know, they will tell part of the story. But then they’ll start telling the whole story and then able to put the pieces together for them to figure it out themselves. But the denial runs deep in us, it does. The force is strong in this one, the denial is strong, and this one does the same thing. Because we’ve been groomed. And we’ve been threatened, we’ve been intimidated, we’ve been fearful, we’ve been obligated, we’ve been guilt tripped, to not see the pink elephant taking a doodoo in the corner of the living room.

And the enabling parent is the one that helps with that, the enabling parent is the one that allows the abuser to have access to us. The enabling parent is the one that allows the abuse to go on. For years. Now. I’m not talking those of us who got into a relationship had children with one of these monsters, realized it and then got out I’m not talking about that. My mom intentionally stayed with this guy until he died. And her whole thing was the money, the money, the money, the money, the money. I need the money, I need the money. I need the money. It’s not worth it. It’s not worth it. It is not worth sacrificing your children on the altar of financial security! It is not. It is not. Is it difficult to leave an abuser? Hell yeah. Because they’ll do every, every rotten thing in the world you can possibly think of to screw you out of child support, out of alimony out of whatever, because they don’t understand child support is going to the child, all they see is that they’re giving you money. And so, it pisses them off. But honestly, in the end, is it worth it to get out of there for your kids safety? Yes. Because now your kids have got a fighting chance to not get abused every single day to get therapy to get some self-esteem. So, this is why in working with people that have had a family of origin that are just dysfunctional, just dysfunctional, working on the self-esteem and recognizing your worth separate from this family of origin is so important. Because like I said, the inner child goes, ooh, family of origin stuff. I had a horrible relationship with these people, maybe one or both. I know if I can find somebody out there, that reminds me of them. And I can make them love me, I prove these people wrong. Half of a doodoo sandwich, half of a doodoo sandwich. Total due to sandwich it never ends. Well, guys, it doesn’t.

So, what you’re gonna want to do is you’re gonna want to work on you. It’s all about you. It is no longer about the family of origin. I would seriously and this is what I did. Write and burn letters. I had a whole bonfire going about my Dad, are you kidding me? So write and burn letters, and it may be 27 pages of go pound sand, absolutely. You know, it may be you know, a letter specifically about a specific event. But keep writing it get it out of your head. Get it onto paper, take your power back. I no longer need to dance to your tune. We’re done. I don’t need you in my head. I refuse. Thanks for playing bye I own me. I know my worth. And my worth is so much more than what you lied to me about.

Kris Godinez  22:13

Mm hmm. Because they lied to us. They absolutely lied to us. Absolutely. So, write and burn letters, journal. So, this is this is how I wrote this first book is that I started journaling. And I started going okay, what happened? And why? When? Where did this come from? Why am I doing this? Or why did I do that? And so, I started journaling, okay, well, this is what happened when I was born. This is what happened when I was a teenager, this was happening when I was young adult, this is what you know, and I started making it into a story and I realized, oh, other people could benefit from this might find this helpful. So, you know, you never know what’s gonna come out of it. One of the things I hear all the time is, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, I don’t want to relive it. I don’t want to relive it. Well, you know, you’re not really reliving it, you’re remembering it, for sure. Totally. You’re remembering it, but you’re not reliving it, it’s already done. It’s already happened. That’s why EMDR can be very, very helpful in working through this kind of trauma. Because it kind of bypasses the amygdala and the amygdala.

Remember, the amygdala is stupid, it can’t tell the difference between past present future and so when we think of the abuse, it goes. You know, here now here, now, here now here now, that’s what the amygdala does is trying to keep us safe. But unfortunately, it’s not keeping us safe. It’s hindering us from healing. So, a couple of therapies that might be helpful with this is EFT, Emotional Freedom therapy. That’s the tapping one. I’ve had several clients do that they’ve gotten a lot of success with it. Other clients love EMDR other clients don’t, it just depends. So, try those CBT is good. But don’t be afraid of remembering. You really are benefiting from remembering for a couple of reasons. Because now you can go back, you can look at it. And you can take your power back from that situation. You can see how efffed up those people are healthy, normal people, healthy, normal parents, do not sacrifice their children on any altar, not financial, not sexual, not for safety, not for…

Your job is to protect those kids, and give them the sense of self-worth, we reflect back to our children who they are. So, for example, it’s like, you know, I’ll have a client that’s got a baby and they’re fussing, right? And so, I’ll say, “Hey, bring the bring the kid over to the camera.” And I’ll be like, oh, “Hi it’s you! Look at you” and the next thing you know, that kid is smiling, because I’ve let them know they have worth. I know. I know. But think about it. When you’re dealing with abusive parents and you have an abuser that’s constantly telling the kid they’re stupid and ugly. Guess what the kid starts believing about themselves. And guess how the kid starts acting appropriately, you know, to that nasty message, that’s why you’ve got to be so careful what you say to children, and how you say it, because that helps them or hurts them know who they are in this world. So, if you’re like, you know, reflecting back to them that you’re glad to see them, and it’s good to see you, hello, inner child work. Hi, good to see you have a great day, I give you permission to say no, or I give you permission to have worth, holy cow. It’s okay for you to like yourself, you know, that kind of thing. That’s what is important. So, I’m sorry, I just went off track. So anyway, the point being is, is that the enabling parent is the one that really, I think they do more damage in a way because they didn’t believe us. They told us we were lying. They minimized they intentionally continued and allowed the abuse to happen, which then made us have some mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs about who we are in the world and what our worth is. So, to work on this super, super quickly. Yes, I do have some journal prompts. So, I’ll talk to you about that in a minute. To work on this super, super quickly. Get with a good trauma therapist. I’m not kidding you. I would I give it all to Miss Smith up in Oregon, because if it weren’t for her, I don’t think I’d be where I am today. She was amazing. She was patient and she was wonderful. I really liked her. So, I’m good with a good trauma therapist, start working through this stuff. Don’t be afraid of the memories. They cannot hurt you. They have no power here. They’re just memories. Are they uncomfortable? Hell yeah. Like I said, when I was prepping for this show, poor John. I was like, triggered and he’d be like, brave, you know, and you know, it really it was triggering was absolutely. But the thing of it is that we want to go through this and master it so that we can be like, I am the master of these thoughts. These memories. These thoughts and memories are not the master of me. Why? Because I effing say so. Bleep the bleep

Kris Godinez  27:06

bleep bleep bleep and BLEEP you memory. There we go. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s important to take your power back, it’s important to work through it, journaling, writing and burning letters.

Here are the books I want you to get.

It’s all the same books that I always mentioned. But here we go. The inner child workbook, Katherine Taylor, or any inner child workbook, I don’t care just get one start working it that’s  Katherine Taylor’s the one I like but there’s others. The self esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, the reason I like that is because it gives you clear directions, okay, you’re going to do this for two weeks, and you’re going to do this for two weeks, you’re going to do this for 28 days, you’re going to do this, you know, and it kind of gives you a thing to do daily, okay, like, what are you thinking? Journal down your thoughts? What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What are you telling yourself? What is the mistaken thought that you have? What is your worth? Do you understand that you have got worth because we all have Got worth we have all of us that have been raised by these narcissists. Man, we have worth that we don’t even realize seriously. So, recognize your worth, start working on little things near work. Hi, good to see you have a great day, I give you permission to say no, I give you permission to like yourself, I give you permission to have boundaries, whatever it is, you’re working on that day.

So that is journal prompts. Okay, so for me, the way I did the journaling for the book, and what I suggest to my clients is pick an age. When did you have the most difficult time so for me, it was teenage, because my dad waited until I was a teenager before we started the sexual stuff. Thank God, you know, so something obviously triggered in him the age of about 12,12, 13 Because that’s when he started with all of us. So um, so yeah, so pick the age and start working on that or do a I’m angry letter Dear Mom, dear dad, dear abuser. Here’s what you did. And you list it out. You did this. You did this. You did this. You did this. How dare you? How dare you allow yourself to get angry? I think the thing of it is a lot of us and I swear to God, I’ll get to the questions in just a second. I know I’m going over a little bit. A lot of us are afraid of our emotions. Why? And I do this. I’m doing this in the blog for December because our abusers are terrified of genuine emotions. They can’t cope. They can’t cope. I can’t tell you the number of times my dad would tell me not to cry because I was a Marine took me until I was 16 to figure out I hadn’t enlisted and or not to cry because I’ll give you something to cry about. Or don’t you dare be mad at me, even though he was the abuser and doing things that really deserved anger. So, we quickly get told to shut down and to not feel so something I recommend get a feeling chart, get a feeling chart off of the internet, chart your emotions and allow your emotions, the emotions are going to come and go. I think our fear and this is our inner child fear this little kid fear is it if I cry, I’m never going to stop. That’s what it feels like when we’re dealing with that intense betrayal. Because that’s what this is when an enabling parent enables the abuser, it’s betrayal. So that intense betrayal that intense grief grieving, the loss of having a normal family that we always wanted and hoped for grieving the loss of having a normal healthy parent, at least one that cared what happened to us really, you know, so you write out these letters, the grieving letter, the angry letter, the Sad Letter, the the upset letter, the you did this letter the and then you burn them, burn it, let it go.

Giving these letters to the abuser is only going to give them ammunition for world war three, don’t do it. Don’t do it. So these letters are for you. And these letters are for you to allow yourself to have the emotions that you could not have at the time of the abuse. Does that make sense? So yeah, write and burn letters. Absolutely. And again, Shahida Arabi’s. Book is great. She’s got a whole bunch of journal suggestions. Absolutely. Write your inner teenager love letter. Write your little kid love letter. I think that’s important. If you were to parent yourself as that age, what would you want it to hear? What did you want to hear that you never got to hear? What did you always want to hear? So mostly, if you start talking to your inner kid, they just want to be loved. They do. They just want to be heard. They want to be believed how many of us were not believed when we told about the abuse?

How, you know, how many of us felt unseen, unheard? Not validated. So, you want to see and hear and validate your inner children, children plural, because there’s going to be different ages and because cognitively we respond to things differently. So, start with a love letter to whatever age you had the hardest time with. Dear little six year old me. Oh my gosh, I love you. What an amazing little child you are you survived. Wow, you are brave. And I am so proud of you. Gosh, am I glad that your mine a lot of people when I say that, they start tearing up and they start crying because they never got to hear it. So, this is why I’m saying it’s so important to reraise ourselves to reparent ourselves to give ourselves that validation, that respect, that love that being heard and seen that we never got from our family of origin. And especially that we never got from the parents that were probably acting on the level of a two year old seriously when you think about it. You know, both of those parents were acting on the level of a two year old my wants my needs me Me, me, me me more, more more, keeping myself safe. So yeah, you get to be the responsible adult and you get to love you you get you get to you get to talk to yourself the way you always wanted to be talked to. And that’s why the mirror work is so important. I want you to get into the habit of speaking to yourself with love and respect and happy to see you well my gosh, it’s you happy to see you have a great day. I give you permission to be awesome, you know and then walk out. It doesn’t have to be a huge monologue.

The other thing I want you to do is I want you to remind yourself of things you’re doing right so three things at night. Three things at night that you did, right. Hey, good to see you again. You go back to the full length mirror. Hi, good to see you again. You know why you did this right? You did this right? And you did this right? I’m so proud of you have a wonderful night sleep really well have great dreams. I’ll see you tomorrow morning sleep well and then go to bed. That’s what a good parent would do. So this is why I want you to reparent it yourself in this way. So I hope those suggestions help. Okay, let’s dive into the questions.

Okay. Um, can a parent be both a narc and an enabler? My narc mother abused me but also enabled her oldest daughter half-sister to abuse me in every way possible and cheered her on to do it absolutely! Absolutely. So, when I talk about flying monkeys because let’s let’s just go down to brass tacks here. Flying Monkeys are enablers, enablers are flying monkeys. They do the bidding of the abuser and there’s two types of flying monkeys. So, there’s one type where they’re just like Pollyanna, don’t get it have never seen abuse have never been around abuse don’t understand abuse. They don’t get the, the nefarious way that abusers think they don’t understand any of this, and so getting them to understand, hey, I don’t want you running back to this person and telling them what I’m doing. Boom because they don’t understand okay, that’s that’s one type of flying monkey. They’re just kind of ignorant so you educate them but then if they continue to do it after you’ve educated them that’s when you go buh bye, go pound sand, buh bye so that’s one kind. The other kind is narcissists. Other narcissists, usually minor narcissists. Sometimes major, enable other narcissists because they recognize themselves in the narcissist, so that’s why you see gangs of bullies. That’s why you see people jumping on a bandwagon with another narcissist because it’s other narcissists that recognize themselves in the main narcissist and they want that power. They want that aggrandizement. So yeah, it is totally common to have narcissists be enablers. You betcha for either a more major narcissist a more powerful narcissist or just for a narcissist in general because they like them. They recognize themselves in them. Yeah, there it is. healthy normal people do not bully let me just be very clear. healthy normal people ain’t got time for that we got a life to live, there’s beaches to go to and dogs do pet I’m sorry, my life’s too busy for that kind of crap. But with abusers it’s all about me, me, me I, I, I,  more, my genitals. That’s all they care about. So, and they want the power. They want the control. It’s all about power and control. So, the yes, they will hook up with an abuser absolutely! And in that case, what you want to do is go no contact, you know, if you’ve got family members that are abusing and the parent is encouraging it. That’s when you block, delete, go bye, go no contact, because if you were not related to these people, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. That is why I moved as far away from my dad as I possibly could. And I had very little contact with him. So, because no, I would not have anything to do with him would I would with my mom. Yeah, I would, especially after my dad died and she started working on herself. So, but yeah, if you were not related to these people, if you were not related to these bozos, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly go no contact, block, delete, keep yourself safe because they don’t change. It does not get better. Um,

Kris Godinez  37:29

okay.

Okay, so this goes back to the question. I was talking about reliving the abuse. I’m scared of reliving the abuse and resisting doing the books, is this self-sabotaging? Well, yeah, it is in a way. So that’s why I say if there’s a great deal of fear around, working through the trauma, get with a trauma therapist, seriously get EMDR, EFT Emotional Freedom therapy, it’s a good, good route to go. So, it’s common, it’s normal. But remember, fear is a thought that’s all it is false evidence appearing real and the amygdala cannot tell the difference between false evidence appearing real and a real threat. It’s all the same. And that’s why the amygdala goes here now, here now, here now, you know, freaks out the whole thing. So, the fear is, remember this and this is it’s so funny. I like to think of fear as a bully. I like to think of fear as a tool that the bully uses. And so, when somebody tries to intimidate me, or make me fearful, or anything like that, that’s when I go middle finger to that fear and I’m going to go do what’s going to heal me because the bully, the abuser does not want me to work on myself does not want me to be healthy, happy whole, etc, etc, etc. So that’s one way to deal with the fear. Is it self-sabotage? Yeah, because remember, when we did start separating from our abusers, when I first moved out, my dad accused me of you know, being a whore and sleeping around I wasn’t, you know, all of this stuff because he was angry because I got away and I wasn’t his punching bag anymore. And so, he had to find another punching bag. So yeah, they will punish us for getting healthy. Oh, well, bye cutting you off. Not gonna see you, hasta lauego, buh bye, you know. So yeah, you can’t allow fear to keep you from bettering yourself.

I dissociate a lot. How do I stay present? That is totally common with trauma, trauma targets. So, dissociation is our brain just kind of going, peace out can’t cope. So, when you dissociate, I again strongly suggest getting with a good trauma therapist. Dissociation is a normal part of PTSD. It is I know it sucks. So, you got to figure out what the triggers are. Number one so that you understand when you’re dissociated. So, what was the trigger? And remember, triggers are not necessarily.

Kris Godinez  40:08

It’s not necessarily always just a thought, it can be a smell, it can be a taste, it can be a sound, it can be a feeling, it can be, you know, it can be anything. So, try to figure out what your triggers are, that’s going to help your therapist go in the right direction to help you work on those triggers, so that you can take your power back so that you’re not feeling helpless so that you don’t feel like you need to be like, bye. You know what I’m saying and it is a part of PTSD, CPTSD, it is a part of that we check out when it’s too much. That’s why in post traumatic stress disorder, complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, oftentimes, the target of abuse knows abuse was going on, but they can’t necessarily remember the specific events because it’s been too much, too frightening, too overwhelming to whatever. Totally normal, totally normal, absolutely, totally normal. So, I would say get with a good trauma therapist and work on that.

Um, can one narc parent abuse the other parent to the point where the other parent becomes disordered and mentally damaged. And that parent then becomes the bad one. Yeah, yep, yep. Yep, they can. Absolutely it’s, it’s crazy. And that’s and that’s why I’m saying, if you recognize that you are in an abusive relationship, get out, get out no amount of security, or money, or prestige, or anything else is worth it. It will eventually kill you. It will either soul kill you, or you will end up becoming just as damaged as they are. And that’s pretty much what was going on with my mom. My mom went from a an abusive mother, who was oh my god, that woman anyway, from her to her first husband, who was also disordered to my dad who absolutely was disordered. So yeah, you can. You’ll just keep getting you’ll pick up fleas. How many times? I mean, my mom had so many fleas. It wasn’t even funny, you know. And so, we started working on those one by one. So yeah, it’s, it’s yeah, they can absolutely go from, you know, an enabler to completely disordered themselves. Absolutely.

Okay, Kris, I’ve been wanting to ask you if you like pickles. They reduce anxiety, which I’ve been dealing with. Just don’t drink all the juice at once. It was a hard lesson I learned, oh, so much swelling. Oh, God. Yes, I do like pickles. I do. And I don’t however, like drinking the pickle juice. I know some people swear by it, but I’m just gonna like ewwww, I do like dill pickles. Actually. I like sweet pickles, too. But, um, yeah, I love pickles. I think they’re great. And if they help, then yeah, go for it. But don’t drink it all at once. You’re absolutely right. Too much swelling. Um, okay.

Did your mother ever fully apologize for her part of the abuse? Yeah, she did. She did. That’s that is the only reason I was continuing to have a relationship with her. I confronted her. And I was like, if you want to have a relationship with me, you need to acknowledge what you did and what you didn’t do. And you need to start working on this stuff. And I got her all the books and she did. So, you know, and I do think she had a lot of fleas. She obviously had a lot of fleas from her mother, who was a narcissist. Absolutely. And then my dad who was borderline and narcissistic, he was crazy. He was all kinds of crazy. None of it good. So yeah, she picked up a lot of stuff. And she really did. blossom in those last 20 years that she was alive 20, 25 years after my dad died. And she did apologize. But did she continue to do stupid things on occasion? Yeah, she would. Absolutely. You know, I figured she wasn’t going to conquer everything this lifetime, but she made amends to me. And that’s what’s important. And, yeah, so yeah. And yeah, she did acknowledge she did acknowledge standing at the window and not doing anything and she did acknowledge sacrificing us to keep herself safe. And she was ashamed about that. So yeah, we worked through that. So that was but it was painful for her. It was freeing for me but yeah, it was good to talk about it. You know, so yeah, tough stuff.

Um, my husband did not protect me at all from his raging narc sister and enabling mother. Was this wrong? I eventually learned my strong boundaries after 20 years in a divorce. Yeah, absolutely. So here’s the deal.

Kris Godinez  44:36

Narcissistic in laws, and I think I’ve talked about this not too long ago, narcissistic in laws will go after the spouse that they think they can. And it really, it’s a loyalty test. It is it’s a loyalty test for the adult child. And so, the adult child is sitting there going, Oh, do I defend my spouse or do I go with my family? Oh my God, I don’t know what to do so, oftentimes they’ll refuse. They’ll refuse to defend the spouse and that is bad news bears. That is a red flag of Communist Party of proportions. Serious red flag. Hello. Yeah, it’s, it’s so that is that is common with adult children of narcissists if they have not worked on themselves that the abusive narc in laws will then attack the new spouse as a loyalty test. Are you going to go it’s us or them. Remember, for the abusers it’s always a win lose situation. It’s never a win win situation. And for them, it’s a loyalty test. Are you loyal to us? Are you loyal to me? Or are you loyal to your new spouse? Well, I’m sorry. But the part of the parents should be to teach those kids how to fly on their own, and go cleave to their spouse and go do them. You know what I’m saying? That’s what a good parent does. A narcissistic or borderline parent will demand loyalty to the parent instead of to the new family. And I think I’ve talked about this several times. So yeah, they absolutely they absolutely do that. Yeah, this was wrong. He should have stood up for you. Absolutely. Asofreakinglutely. Absolutely. And you know, it’s the same thing. It’s like if the roles were reversed if your family was attacking him, would you have stood up for him? Yeah, you probably would have. But the fact that he wasn’t willing to stand up for you and wasn’t willing to work on it. Oh, red flag, red flag.

When I was a kid, I felt like I was the only adult in the family. Is that crazy? No. Oh my god, sweetie, I’m telling you, I felt the same way. And I’d be willing to bet everybody here did. So, when we’ve got a disordered parent or two, you literally have been parentifide. You know, there’s, somebody’s got to be driving the car. These two bozos aren’t. So yeah, the kids become parentifide. And usually the kids, especially the one who sees the pink elephant, taking a dump in the corner of the living room is the only one that is sane enough to make rational decisions.

So, you know, one of the stories I tell in my book, you know, What’s Wrong With Your Dad? I’ve told this several times. I was 10 years old, 10. And we were in the van driving the van on some road trip. And the

Kris Godinez  47:24

automatic steering what is that called a cruise control. Cruise control got stuck, and dad couldn’t disengage it. So like he tapped on the brake wouldn’t disengage, turned it off, wouldn’t disengage car was speeding up, speeding up, speeding up. He was panicking. My mom was panicking. And I’m looking at the situation. I’m like, well throw it in neutral, turn the car off close to the side of the road problems. All right. So, the fact that the two adults sitting here who both had their driver’s licenses, couldn’t figure out to do something so logical and so simple as to throw it into neutral, turn off the car Coast over to the side of the road, so we can get off safely. And a 10-year-old who hadn’t driven yet, but obviously watched a lot of driving, you know, could figure that out. It’s like, why, why? Why why as a 10-year-old, was I the only one to figure this out? What, what’s wrong with this picture? You know, so yeah, it is very common for us to be parentifide. And what’s interesting is, is at that particular point in time, I realized my dad was then very threatened by me because he realized I knew what to do. Because at that time, he was screaming at me Shut up, you don’t know what you’re doing. Bla bla bla, my mom finally started screaming back at him. She knows what she’s doing. Do what she says. He did what I said, we were able to get over to the side of the road. And from that moment, I can pinpoint it. From that moment on is when he started telling me I was the cute one. Not the smart one. So, isn’t that interesting? So yeah, yeah, we are parentifide. Absolutely. But then if we show them up, they get pissed. And then they start trying to put us down, you know, discard, devalue, etc, etc, etc. Okay, um, yeah. So that’s you’re not crazy. A lot of us felt parentifide. You bet.

What do you think happens to the family when the SG scapegoat goes no contact? I’m two years no contact. Now. What do you think happens to my elderly parents, my dad is in her enabler always has been? Well, so what happens is when a child especially the scapegoat leaves the family. So first of all, what’s going to happen usually, is that the family and the flying monkeys desperately try to get the scapegoat back into the family system because the rest of the family doesn’t want to play the game of your it. Because now the the abuser is going to have to find a new scapegoat. They can use you the old scapegoat for a while and talk about you and all of this. But if you’re no contact with them, and there’s no drama, eventually that gets old. And now they have to find a new scapegoat. So usually what they do is they, the roles change, they find a new scapegoat. And it’s especially hard on a family on a child where they’re the only child because they end up playing the golden child and the scapegoat. Talk about confusing. So, um, yeah, the family roles change, they have to pick a new scapegoat. And they’ll, they’ll gossip, they’ll do whatever for a long, long time. But if there’s no new information, like if they can’t get new information on you, and it’s all old information, and it’s not exciting, they’ll find another scapegoat, guarantee it. And it could be anyone, it could be grandparents that they decide to start picking on it could be other children, they decide to start picking out it could be the spouse, it could be whatever. So yeah, absolutely.

Um, okay. My brain keeps bringing up all the good times. And I tend to minimize the bad times, how do I stop this? Totally common? Oh, my God, every one of us here has done that. guarantee it. So, it’s denial. So, what you want to do is you want to write out every single rotten thing that these people have ever done to you seriously. And when your mind starts going down memory lane, because remember, guys, we are in Hoover season, this is when families reach out to the kids that have gone no contact with them. This is when exes reach out to the person who said I see you for what you are by. So, from now until the middle of February is Hoover season. And they’re counting on the nostalgia of this time of year to get you to contact them. So, you want to write out every rotten thing that they ever, ever did to you. And you keep that somewhere where you can see it so that when your mind starts going, Oh, I really miss them. I remember the good times and and this that and the other thing you can be like, Oh yeah, and then they did this. And then they did this and then they did that oh man, then they did Mother Clucker. And then they didn’t you know, do you see where I’m going with that to remind yourself because we tend to do that. It’s kind of a it’s like a human defense mechanism. We tend to forget the bad times so that we keep going, you know, so but in this case, this is harmful because then this leads to relapse in that we come back to the abuser because we fool ourselves into thinking oh, but it was so good. And this happened and was so fun.

Kris Godinez  52:30

Don’t do it. Write out every rotten thing that ever happened and remind yourself of who they really are. All right, my love’s go have a wonderful week Drink plenty of water be good yourselves. Be careful out there on the roads. So, because people driving crazy. So anyway, that’s it.  alright. Talk to you later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post Throwback Thursday: 11-14-2021 WHEN THE PARENT IS THE ENABLER appeared first on Kris Godinez.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:01

Okay, so today, I wanted to again start with a current event thing and kind of talk about some current events. Hey, guys, so two women have gone missing recently that have made the news I’m sure there are more than just two women missing but two women in particular I wanted to talk about briefly before we dive into kids and family trauma and family drama. So the first one is Irene, and I’m probably going to say her name wrong Gakwa, Irene Gakwa was last seen in Gillette, Wyoming. The person of interest in this case is Nathan Hightman. Now, it’s suspicious because she has not been heard from since February. And this Nathan Heitmann has now got charges against him for fraudulently using her bank account, credit cards and one of the purchases made was boots and a shovel. So that’s not looking good. Family members have not heard from her since February. They’re desperate. They are in Kenya, they are wanting answers. So if anyone knows anything about this, please contact the Gillette Wyoming police department. It just… and she met them on Craigslist. She met him on Craigslist, and it was showing all of the signs of possible abuse. So, it’s just really scary to me.

Craigslist, internet dating. They’re not safe, guys. This is where the psychopaths live. That is seriously where the psychopaths will go to hunt. That is their hunting ground. So um, yeah, if you really, really be careful if you decide to start dating online, because this is their hunting ground. And of course, he went after somebody who didn’t have a firm grasp of the culture or the language or, you know, things like that. And yeah, so there’s that one.

(Unfortunattely, Eliza Fletcher was found dead two days after this recording) The other one is, let me get over here is Eliza Fletcher, she was the Memphis teacher that was kidnapped by Cleotha Abston. So, they have him in custody, but no sign of her. And that’s never a good sign. So, if anybody knows anything, please contact the authorities because the families are just in absolute agony right now. I can’t, I can’t even imagine what it would be like to lose a family member to a predator and not know where they are or if they’re alive, or if they’re okay, so if anybody knows anything, please spread the word about those two missing women. Let’s see if we can get some information to the police departments and find them that would be great. And again, this was a kidnapping off the street.

So, the only people on the face of the planet that feel entitled to taking somebody is, are narcissists and psychopaths, dark triads, because they view us as objects like anybody as objects, not just women, they view men as objects, and that’s what they do. So, we need to find these two women and bring them home. So there that is so um, and I want to be very clear, psychopaths can be females, as well.

And if you were on my facebook page, I shared a story staying here in San Diego, out at the pool rescuing bees because bees fly into the pool. And so then I’d go and I’d rescue them and this woman came into the pool area and I said, oh, hey, be careful. You know, I’m rescuing bees and they’re on my shoes. So just you know, don’t step on them. So, what does she do? She kicks my shoes and smashes them on purpose. On purpose. She doesn’t know me from Adam. I don’t, I don’t live in San Diego. I don’t know these people. So, it just gleeful you know, on purpose smashed them like intentionally and I’m just like they weren’t hurting you, they were on my shoes. First of all, why do you feel the need to touch my property? Second of all, she intentionally squished the bees. And I’m just like, that’s a female psychopath right there. So, no compassion, no empathy, no nothing. So they are among us guys. Remember, it’s about 35 to 45% of the population is disordered. So you’ve got to be careful. I’m not saying you need to be paranoid, I’m not saying you need to, you know, never go out or anything like that. But just be aware, they are out there. And they’re looking for fights, or they’re looking for prey, or they’re looking for whatever. So just be aware.

Alright. Now that I’ve got that out of the way, let’s dive into today’s topic. Okay, so today’s topic is kids, adult kids and family drama. So, we’re kind of bringing this up, because we’re coming into the holiday season, yay. And unfortunately, if there are disordered family members, there’s going to be drama, because narcissists, malignant borderlines malignant narcissists need drama and chaos, like the rest of us need oxygen seriously, because they cannot stand the idea of it being calm, and cool, and fun, and happy, you know, they’ve got to ruin it, they’ve got to create chaos, they’ve got to create anger. Those are the only things that they’re happy with, is anger and chaos. Anger is, the only emotion they get. Anger is the only emotion they get. Because that’s the only emotion they allow themselves to feel because it’s part of the fight flight freeze or fawn syndrome.

Kris Godinez  06:39

So anyway, so we’re coming into the holiday season. And when we’ve got adult kids, and somebody starts drama, and I don’t care who they are, I don’t care if it’s the other parent, I don’t care if it’s grandma, grandpa, cousins, whatever. It’s really important to guide your kids through this. Now, this is also why I talk about when you’re leaving an abusive relationship, too. If you’ve got children, get them into therapy, get them into trauma therapy, and if you need to, you simply tell the opposing parent, that’s the problem, that you’re getting him into trauma therapy to help them cope with the divorce. Okay, that usually is not threatening enough for them to stop them from getting therapy. However, if they’re really crazy. If they’re really a dark triad. Yeah, they’ll stop them from trying to get therapy because they don’t want to be exposed. They don’t want their secrets known. They don’t want whatever. So, or they’ll view the therapy as Oh, goody, goody, I’ll go in and talk to the therapist and smear you to them, etc. So which is why you’ve really got to find a good trauma therapist that understands high conflict divorces and get the kids in so that they’ve got a safe place to vent about what’s going on.

So let’s go forward. So okay, let’s say the kids didn’t get therapy, they couldn’t get there. Maybe the opposing partner or the oppose, the ex just wouldn’t allow it right? Or they would interfere with it, or they would whatever. So, again, with children, age-appropriate discussions, now, you never want to bad mouth, the disordered parents ever, because remember, there are 50% them but, you can call out behavior. That’s not normal behavior. That’s not how healthy adults behave. You know, I mean, and you can do it that way without coming straight out and going, look, your mom or your dad is a complete psychopath. You know, you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to do that. But you can call out behavior as they get older, age appropriate. Discussions about is this behavior normal? Is this behavior, how adults healthy adults behave?

You know, once they are adults, even though they’re 18 they’re still kids, guys, because the brain does not stop developing until age…. I think it’s late 20s 28/29 around in there. So, what I often hear… my dad did this, he was such a mother Clucker seriously. So as every kid turned 18, he would threaten to, you know, kick them out of the house, cut them off, you know, not guide them, not direct them, not help them not, you know, nothing he wanted, he wanted us gone he considered us a burden. So, you want to set your kid up for success. And just because they’ve suddenly turned 18 does not mean that they are now suddenly able to go out and make six figures and afford a house. But narcissists act like they should be, you know, psychopaths act like this. it’d be because to them, any amount of money spent on an adult child now is taking out of their fun money, etc. Except that they’ll never actually do anything with that fun money because it’s all about he who dies with the most toys wins.

So anyway, the thing of it is, is that you have to treat them age appropriate no matter what the drama is, no matter where in the family that drama is coming from. So even though they’re 18, and they’re technically adults, again, where are they emotionally, and that’s how you want to talk to them about the drama. And that’s how you want to guide them with the drama. Again, you do not want to be bad mouthing, because here’s something else that happens in families is like drama gets going, mom or dad, you know, tells the adult kid I can’t stand cousin Bertha, bla, bla, bla, bla, and then the kid runs to that side of the family and tells them everything that’s going on. So you want to be very careful how you say things, how you present things. And, for example, let’s say that you just call it out. It’s like, look, cousin Bertha does not behave in a way that is acceptable.

Kris Godinez  11:15

This is drama. I’m not going to play. If you want to get involved, that’s up to you. But let me tell you the consequences, if you do you know. So let’s say that cousin Bertha has started drama over Christmas. That’s a typical one. So cousin Bertha is, you know, wanting to invite the ex to Christmas, right? So hey, you’re welcome to go, I’m not going to go, but you’re welcome to go. And you know, or not, if you don’t want to, and then you go through all of the fears. Because a lot of times what comes up for kids is if the ex is involved and the fear is, is if they don’t go, then the ex is going to punish them. And it’s talking, it’s, again, you’re an adult, you don’t have to put up with that behavior. You don’t have to sit there and listen to abuse, you know, because by the time they’re 18, they can understand a little bit deeper and a little more. And also when they turn 18 You can start going Hey, have you read this book called The object of my affection is in my reflection coping with a narcissist by Rokelle Lerner might help. You know, and a lot of times when kids do read that stuff, they suddenly go, oh, shoot, that’s what I’ve been dealing with. Oh, my God. And that opens the dialog to start talking. So but sometimes not. Because remember abusers are what’s the word I’m looking for? Bastards. But they poison the children against the opposing parent. And that’s why I’m saying you got to nip that stuff early. By the time they’re adults, those thinking patterns are pretty set. And you could offer them to go to therapy with you like family counseling with a good trauma therapist that understands parental alienation. So, when you’re guiding your kids, or if they come to you and say, Hey, I’d like to repair our relationship, jump on it, find a good therapist, get that going, because you don’t want the ex to then step in and continue to roil the pot and take that opportunity away from you.

So, when trauma or drama, that too, when drama comes up in families and the kids are trying to navigate it. Help them with boundaries, that is going to be empower them with boundaries, empower them with the word no. So, a lot of kids are afraid to say no, a lot of adults are afraid to say no, why? Because we’ve seen what happens when we say no to crazy. And what does crazy do when we say no. Hey, how dare you? No, no, no, you can’t say no to me, you know, and then they try to punish or whatever. And you kind of guide them by walking them through it. Look, no is a respect boundary word. It is a respect boundary word. If someone in this family does not respect your no, they don’t respect you. Period. So be careful. You know, you teach them that. It’s like you don’t have to do whatever drama is going on. You don’t have to be involved in it. Will it piss them off? Oh, hell yes. I can’t tell you the number of times that adult kids have made the choice to be like, nope, stepping out of this circle. This is your guy’s problem. Not my poop not my coop. You guys get to deal with this. Right? So and then they get pissed because you’re not playing. So you kind of warn the kids it’s like look, you have a right to say no, here’s what’s going to happen, you know, they’re going to be angry at you now because you’ve said no, but here’s the thing. They’re showing you who they are. And they’re showing you that they do not respect the word no, which means they don’t respect you. Because people who love you respect you. And if they respect you, they respect the wall of No.

Kris Godinez  15:22

No is a safe word, literally, it’s a safe word. It’s like, No, I’m not going to engage in that. No, I’m not going to play that game. No, I’m not going to play triangulation of communication. So in these dysfunctional families, where especially around the holidays, they love to create this, just insane. Drama, right? There’s a lot of communication triangulation going on. So Aunt Bertha will come to you and say, well, your cousin Tony said, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So they’re doing triangulation of communication. And nine times out of 10, whatever  Bertha is telling you is either a bald faced lie, or she’s only giving part of the communication or she’s putting her spin on the communication. So in talking to your adult kids always teach them about triangulation of communication. The second somebody comes to you and says so and so said such and such. Great. Where’s the phone? Let’s get them on the phone right. Now. Let’s clear this up. Watch them backpedal. I’m not even kidding you. They’re going to be Oh, no, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, you know. So anytime somebody says that somebody else said something? What? Great, let’s get him on the phone. Let’s clear that up right now. Oh, look, they’re on speaker. Watch that person freak out. So that’s the thing. It’s like you never disordered families groom. All of the generations, this is generational. This is generational trauma right here. Because I’ve seen it 100,000 million times. They groom all of the generations to do this weird communication, where they talk about each other, in front of each other, and expect the person they’re talking about to act as if they’re not being talked about. Or they train them that this triangulation of communication is somehow normal. Well, it may be normal in this extremely dysfunctional family. But it is not normal and healthy families. And that’s what you teach the adult kids this triangulation is not normal. This is not how healthy adults communicate.

Kris Godinez  17:50

This drama over here is not how Healthy Families handle Christmases, or Thanksgiving,

or Halloween, or, you know, any of the holidays. So, you start pointing out the incongruence. It’s okay, well, they’re doing this, but this is what’s normal. Well, they’re doing this. But this is what’s normal. Do you see where I’m going with that? Or this is what’s healthy? Right? It’s, by old mentor John Nixon would get so mad at me for always saying normies like, use the word healthy instead! I’m like, I know. But yeah, so it’s the same thing healthy, normal. It’s like, healthy and normal is over here. What they’re doing is way over here. There’s an incongruency here. Does that make sense?

So, kids will often feel even adult kids will often feel disloyal, and that they need to side somehow with grandma or whatever. And remember, you’re still dealing with what’s the word, I’m looking for that ego defense, the siding with the abuser siding with the aggressor. So, there’s still that inner child stuff going on, which is why it is so important to help them start either getting therapy, working on inner child working on PTSD, do you see where I’m going with that? So, they need to start working on this stuff because the part of them that is fearful and is engaging in the drama is the child because the child is trying to fix it, especially if there was a lot of codependency going on. And a lot of well no it is your problem like so remember, they project they love to project onto the kids well no what is your problem. Well no you need to come to Christmas because you’re the barrier between me and so and so. They do that I just Oh my god, kids get all of these jobs that are not their job. So if they’re being forced to go to a family function, because some family member needs them to be the barrier between them and the abuser. Not my job, not my poop, not my coop. Mother clicker. I’m not doing it. Y’all clean that mess up yourself.

You know, so it’s really a matter of talking to them. And remember, the adult child who’s had to deal with the abuser, if they have not gotten therapy is still dealing with all of the inner child stuff, all of the fear all of the, you know, grooming, the messages, the, you know, the whole thing, and they’re dealing with that inner critic. So that’s why it’s really important to start talking to them about go get a therapist, go get a trauma therapist to help you stand your ground. Because that’s what these people do is they keep pushing at the boundaries. They’re like, the little kid in the market, you know, when you tell a kid no, when they want candy. No, I’m sorry, we’re not going to do that this time. But why, but why, but why I’m going to throw a fit and da, da, da, da, da. And I have so much respect for the parents that go, Okay, we’re done. We’ll, we’ll go shopping some other time. And even though it’s an inconvenience for the parent, they show the kid through actions, this behavior is not going to fly. And then the kid learns very quickly. Oh, I didn’t get my way. Oh, and now I have to go home. Oh, do you see where I’m going with that? So it’s the same thing with these abusive jack wagons is that you have to stand your ground, say no and mean it and be a broken record. No, is a complete sentence, respect it. R-E-S-P-E-C-T Find out what it means to me, Mother Clucker! Do you see where I’m going with that?

So and if they don’t respect it, and if they keep trying to, but why, but why, but why, but why? That’s when you end the conversation. And adult kids, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, in these dysfunctional families still feel like they’re the little kid. And so they feel like they can’t stand up to the quote unquote, adults. empower them. It’s okay for you to say no, it’s okay for you to tell this family member. No, it’s okay for you to hang up on them. It’s okay for you to not have to go over there and be the protector or the buffer or the comedian or whatever job it is they’re trying to slough off on to you. That’s not your job. If you want to go over and see your cousins and have fun with them and play football, that’s great. But don’t get involved with this stuff. Because it’s not your problem.

Kris Godinez  22:28

It’s not your problem. And like I said, oftentimes adult kids of abusive families or disordered families, still, even in their 30s and 40s. feel like they are still a child if they have not worked on the inner child stuff. So, when they’re confronted with an adult, a grandparent, a parent, etc., or an older cousin or whatever, that tendency to do the people pleasing and cave and make them happy, pops up. So really, it is a matter of introducing your kids as soon as you can to the books soon as they turn 18 There is nothing the opposing parent can do. Literally nothing. I mean, they can badmouth you until the cows come home and, and Dwayne Robert has a whole series of videos on parental alienation, which I really, really recommend. Um, but once the kids turn 18 You can start having real talks with them Don’t badmouth the other parent but you can go this behavior not healthy, this behavior healthy you know, and encourage them to read the books encourage them to watch the videos encourage them to educate themselves about what’s been going on. So the books that I would recommend for some a kid who’s an adult for dealing with all of these people who have so many okay hold on the Disease to Please by Harriet Breaker. So that’s about the people pleasing, CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. The Radical Forgiveness by Collin Tipping, Radical Self Forgiveness. also by Collin Tipping you know, the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, the Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione are Catherine Taylor, either one of those. So, it’s working on all of that stuff. And that’s why I’m saying don’t wait until they’re an adult, you can start working with them on self-esteem when they’re little. You can start working with them on boundaries when they’re little. You can start even working with them on healthy behavior versus unhealthy behavior when they’re little. You just got to be careful and not call names not do the psychological thing. Oh, you’re you know, my ex is a narcissist, stop, no, stop. Look, we broke up because weren’t working. And healthy people work together. That’s all you got to say. You know, you don’t have to go into great detail, and it needs to be age appropriate.

So, the other thing that disordered families will do is when a child stands up and says no, no, I’m not going to do that. They all then go on the smear campaign. And so then it’s like, it’s like a game of telephone. So then now grandma or Aunt Bertha, or whoever’s pissed off at the adult kid is now smearing the kid everybody else in the family. And so it’s like a, what’s the word I’m looking for? And then pretty soon the kid will get the flying monkeys calling. So, you’re going to have to explain to them what’s going on. It’s like, look, you’re going to say, no, they’re not going to like it, they’re going to rally the troops, and you’re probably going to get phone calls from other family members, and you’re going to have to stand your ground. So, you’re going to have to kind of like, let them know what’s going to happen so, they’re not blinded by it, you know, blindsided by it. So that again, it’s like, single narcissists, romantic narcissists, family narcissists, they all act the same exact way. It’s like, there’s a damn playbook seriously. So, they will gang up on the kid, they will use the guilt stuff and you again, you teach the adult children, you do not need to be guilt tripped. If somebody is guilt tripping you remember, fog, fear, obligation, that’s what they’re dealing in. And guilt, especially the obligation and the guilt. The fear is kind of there too. But fear, obligation, guilt, if they’re making you feel fearful, that you’re going to be excommunicated. If they’re making you feel obligated. Well, you have to, I’m your grandmother, I’m your grandfather, I’m the whatever head of the family, blah, blah, you have to obligated, you owe me, you owe me that’s obligation you owe me. I don’t owe, Jack. All I got to do is pay taxes and die. You know what I’m saying? But that’s what they do. They make you feel obligated or guilty? You don’t love me? Why aren’t you know, the covert narcissist, it’s like, I do everything for this family, and you won’t even come to this particular party to protect me. Oh, please.

Kris Godinez  27:11

You know, so if they’re doing any of that, you got to explain to the adult kids what this whole thing is. That’s why I’m saying, I really firmly believe that a family trauma family therapist would be really good, so that you guys can get a communication going. So, you get everybody on Common Ground. When I say everybody, I mean you and your kids, you know what I’m saying so that you understand what is going on here and help the kids you know, share your own stories. You know, this is how I stood up to Aunt Bertha. This is how I stood up to your grandmother, this is how I stood up to your grandfather, this is how I stood, you know, and help them and show them and give them tools.

That’s really what this is all about everything you guys are learning in here. You can give to your kids age appropriate and show them how to use those tools. That’s really what it’s all about is you want to learn how to use the tools yourself, go out and practice, then pass those healthy tools on to the kids age appropriate. Show them how to use it, help them and guide them when there’s pushback from the abusers or from the disordered family. And, you know, give them a way to express themselves. You know, encourage them to talk, encourage them to go to therapy, encourage them to journal. It’s amazing. It’s so funny to me, where I will tell my clients, it’s like, okay, journaling is going to help you like I don’t see how that can help. I know you don’t see how it can help right now. But trust me, I want you to start journaling, I want you to have a voice, I want you to get it out. If you want to… you can bring it into session and we can go through it, or you can trot it out to the barbecue and burn it your choice. And then a couple of weeks later, they’ll come back in, and they’ll be like, I really liked journaling. Wow, I was finally able to tell Aunt Bertha that she could go push herself off a cliff. Oh, great. Okay, good. So, there’s some anger about Aunt Bertha, let’s go into that… you see where I’m going with that. So, it’s really important to pass on all of the little tricks of the trade that I have been giving to you guys, you know, journaling, writing and burning letters, getting support, getting support, you know, get it get friends, family that are healthy and trustworthy. It’s like, you don’t have to put up with this. You don’t, you don’t, you don’t have to put up with this just because they’re family. And here’s the big question. I asked everybody. If you were not related to these Jack wagons, would you have anything to do with them? And the answer is probably going to be no. If so, act accordingly. You don’t owe any body an explanation. Like I said, No. is a complete sentence and I’ve had to tell people that no is a complete sentence you need to stop and if they don’t stop, okay, they’re showing me who they are. They’re using manipulation. They’re using guilt and fear. They’re using obligation, whatever. Time to let them go. Time to let them go. Bye bye. Bye, bye now go pound sand. Bye bye, bye bye. Now we’re done. You know, seriously, you don’t owe anybody anything. And I hate how families do this. Oh, well, oh, what we’re your family as if that means something when they’ve been abusive. They’ve been derogatory. They’ve been, you know, hateful they’ve been… I wish I could swear because I have some choice words for people like that. So, you know what I’m saying? It’s…. If you were not related to them? Would you put up with that behavior from a stranger? If the answer is no, then don’t put up with it. Oh, so anyway, there that is. So adult kids and family drama sometimes. And I swear, I’ll get to the questions in just a second one last thought. Sometimes what abusers will do is they will drag the adult kids into the drama in order to get to you.

Kris Godinez  31:05

So, it’s a hostage situation. So don’t play. Don’t play. You know, if they’re dragging the kids in, you let them know what you’re seeing, nope, they’re doing this to get to me, I’m not going to play. You don’t need to play either. Say no and be done. And then, you know, stay out of it. So just realize disordered people. And here’s something else to think about. If somebody is always pulling drama around holidays, that’s narcissistic behavior. narcissists, ruin, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, births, weddings, deaths. If they can ruin it, they will, because it’s puts the attention back on them, you know, and it makes them feel powerful. So, you know, if they’re doing this crap, you can walk away, it’s okay, give yourself permission. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, I give you permission to walk away from your family. It’s okay. Seriously, that’s going to be your morning mantra. If you’re dealing with this kind of family. That’s all drama, and all chaos. The other thing you need to realize too, is people that create drama and chaos, the more they are really, really, really causing drama and causing chaos for other people. The more chaotic they are on the inside, and it’s because they need to stay outside focus. They don’t want to focus in on what they’re thinking and feeling here. They want to stay outside focused. They don’t want to deal with their own emotions. So, they would rather create a fire over here and put all of their attention over there, man, the absolute Inferno that’s going on inside of them. So, there it is. All right, let’s dive into the questions, shall we? Okay.

Ah, is it common for one adult to be excluded from family gatherings? Yeah, if they’re a scapegoat, you bet. I was told not to come with Christmas, as my abusive half-sister would be there. And that meant I was not welcome if she was there. Well, again, when people side, when flying monkeys side with the abuser, they are showing you who they are. Believe them the first time. Honestly, they did you a favor, if they’re siding with somebody who was abusive to you, and they’re saying, Oh, they’re welcome. But you’re not. um Houston, there’s a problem. So family is not always blood. Family is not always blood. You know, sometimes, people who are not even related to us can be more of a good family than blood related family can be. So um, yeah, that it’s how do I explain this? In disordered families generational okay, we’re talking generational trauma, if nothing has been worked on, and there is a child who is disordered and abusive, again, they will ego defense, side with the abuser because they’re afraid doesn’t make it right. But that’s what they do. So, again, they’re showing you who they are. If they’re not getting help for this, if they’re not working on this, if they’re siding with somebody who was abusive to you. Bye bye now go pound sand, I’d be done right and burn and angry letter be done. So yeah, they will do that. And they do side with it’s just like little kids who side with the abusive parent. They’re afraid of getting killed on some level and it’s usually an inner child issue. And if there’s been no work on working on the inner child working on self-esteem, working on boundaries, working on no, working on whatever, then they’re going to do knee jerk reactions. They’re going to side with the abuser So stay away, stay away and do not take it personally, this speaks volumes about them. Nothing about you. So, remember that.

Okay, um, can you still be empathic and not listen to people’s drama? Yeah. Many times, if you don’t play the drama game, you’re told you have no empathy. Well, yeah, because you’re not buying into their stuff. So oftentimes, when I am working with clients that come from heavily disordered families, they get stuck in their story. And that’s what the drama is, it’s being stuck in your story. So, they’ll come in, and they’ll, you know, roar and this, that drama, blah, you know, the whole thing.

Kris Godinez  35:49

And I’ll go, okay, got it. And, and then they get past, because I’m not getting as upset as they are. And I finally had to tell them, it’s like you’ve told this story three times. Now? Why are you stuck in your story? How has this story become who you are? Because the story is not who you are. But you’re telling it so many times that it’s now become who you are. So, need to separate that out. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, you can absolutely be empathic and still not participate in the drama. So, it’s finding what the real issue is. So, what is the real issue? What does this story mean to you? What does this drama mean to you? Why are you allowing this drama to run your life? Start asking questions like that, and either one of two things will happen, they will have an absolute fit and get very angry at you. Or they’ll stop. And they’ll be like, oh, and that’s what I go, uh, huh? See where I’m going with that. So yeah, you can be empathic you can, the thing of it is, is that people who get stuck in their stories are in pain, they are suffering, if you want to get into the Buddhist philosophy of it, they are suffering. And so they have an identity that explains the suffering, as opposed to, I don’t need to be my thoughts. I don’t need to be my family story. I don’t have to buy into the BS that the family said I was.  I don’t have to, I don’t have to, I get to tell my own story. And I get to write my own ending. And it has nothing to do with this family of origin. So yeah, empathy is figuring you know, hearing them, but hearing what’s behind the drama, what’s driving the drama, what’s driving the need to have this extremely dramatic thing going on all the time. And usually, it’s pain. Usually, it’s hurt, usually, it’s trauma. So yes, you can be empathic. But you also have to have boundaries, because if you don’t, they’ll just keep telling the story over and over and over and over and drama and drama and drama and drama. And you kind of have to be like, and what’s your part in this? That’ll tell you everything you need to know, because if they say, you know, screw you roar, roar, and they run off then okay, they’re not willing to deal with their own stuff. Okay, they can find somebody else to listen to their drama. So, do you see where I’m going? Yes, you absolutely can be empathic and still have boundaries. That’s, that is the task of every empathic survivor of abuse or every Empath period, is to have boundaries, and still be empathic.

Kris Godinez  38:47

So, when that woman smashed the bees I think the first, I was angry, but underneath the anger was just sad. Because I was just like, wow, somebody who is that hateful, and that un empathic and that unfeeling and that uncaring. I can’t even imagine how she is with her kids. Or other people. You know, I’m a total stranger. If she did this to me, I can’t imagine how she treats people close to her. So immediately, I was like, Okay, what do I do with these emotions? Because I’m angry, and I’m sad, and I feel bad for the bees. And the little kid in me is like, why did you feel the need to try to hurt me by killing these bees I was saving what what is up with that? You know? So immediately I went to the tonglen, meditation, the metta meditation, which is okay, this woman is suffering. May she have peace. May she have all that she needs food, shelter, companionship, may she have freedom from suffering. May she have peace because when people suffer according to Buddhism, that is when they are sadistic, horrific, hurtful, harmful, hurt people, you know, etc., etc.. And rather than carry her through with me, the entire day wasn’t about to do that punted around in my head, did the tonglen meditation, let it go? And I didn’t think about it again until I did this broadcast, because there was a lesson in there. So, anyway, so it’s doing the tonglen meditation, remembering that her brutal behavior spoke volumes about her nothing about me. She doesn’t even know me. You know, so it’s kind of like, whoa, okay, does disorder disorder, disorder was like a neon sign flashing over her head. So, you know, again, rather than taking it personally just going, Okay, this is her issue. She’s suffering. I wish her peace. I wish her freedom from suffering. I wish her enlightenment so that she no longer harms innocence. So, there that is. So, hope that answered the question. Hold on. Let me get back to make sure I did. Um, yeah, yeah. So, you can have empathy. I mean, I have empathy for but avoid her like the plague. If I see her again, out at the pool. I’ll tell you that much. Oh, anyway, okay.

Um, my narc. Mother is a dry drunk. I’m so sorry. My little brother 21 is still at home. How do I help? He has started acting like her anger manipulating, etc. He won’t listen, that mom’s a narc. Well, there’s very little you can do. If he’s 21, and he’s not listening, it’s, you know, all you could do is maybe hand him some books and go, you might want to read this, might want to read this and nine times out of 10, he’s probably not going to read it. So, all you can do is just be honest and open. And you know, here’s some things that might help. And if he takes you up on the offer, great. If he doesn’t, great, you know what I’m saying? Alright, so yeah, there’s nothing you can do. I mean, it’s like, if he’s not listening, if he refuses to believe that mom’s got issues, all you can do is say, hey, these books helped me. I hope they help you give them to him, will he read them? Maybe, maybe not, you know, so and just, you know, offer, offer to go to therapy with him if he’s ever interested. But, you know, he may or may not take you up on it. So, and it’s hard. It’s hard for kids to acknowledge and recognize that a parent is disordered, it really, truly is. It’s like when I was going through my stuff it right around that age, right around 21 around in there, you know, I’d started separating from the family and really getting that dad was completely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And mom wasn’t too far behind. And that’s a hard thing to accept, because it’s like, you just need one caring adult that has your back. And unfortunately, in a lot of these situations, there are no hearing adults that have your back. And that’s, that’s a tough thing to accept. So that might be something to discuss if he’s open to it. But if you’re telling me that he’s unwilling to see the behavior, and you know, all you can do again, you point out the incongruence sees there’s this going on, but this is healthy.

Kris Godinez  43:17

You know, so just talk to him and see what happens. And if he doesn’t want to listen, he doesn’t want to listen, he’s not ready. People are only ready to deal with things when they are ready to deal with things. You can’t force it. So, you make suggestions. You can offer a lifeline. Hey, I’m here to talk anytime you want to. Hey, here’s the name of the good therapist, hey, you know that kind of thing. But that’s about as much as you can do. Okay, let’s see.

Um, I have had to reach very deep to find my empathy, I cannot talk, referencing it authentically. Now. Is that a common problem? Well, kind of. Yeah. So, in adult children or in any children of narcissists, a lot of us go numb. A lot of us just, there was just so much pain and so much suffering and so much awfulness. And you kind of cut yourself off, you know what I’m saying? It doesn’t happen to everybody. But it does happen to some people. So, some clients that I have had, have just gone numb, and it’s, it’s really important to not stay numb. It’s like get back to being a human being, find your empathy find the caring in the world find, you know, because it’s like, it’s kind of like the situation that happened at the pool. You know, if I hadn’t worked on myself, I would be like, Screw it. I’m never going back to the pool. Well, no, I’m going back to the pool. There’s plenty of other good people around I’ll just avoid that person, you know. So, it’s finding that empathy, finding that caring, realizing that not everybody in the world is evil, although sometimes it feels that way. And um yeah, we cut ourselves off. And there was an interesting discussion over on Facebook on one of the posts I made, that somebody said that, you know, it’s really funny that children of narcissists seem to be either very, very empathic, or they kind of do the same thing that the parents did. And sometimes there’s a middle ground there, sometimes they’re empathic, but they’ve gone numb, and they just don’t want to care about anybody because they don’t want to get hurt again, is really what it is. So, it’s allowing yourself to be empathic. It’s allowing yourself to feel, it’s drawing extremely strong and healthy boundaries, recognizing when it’s somebody else’s issue, when it’s speaking volumes about them and nothing about you, recognizing what’s yours, what’s theirs, and allowing yourself to feel. You got to feel it to heal it and having empathy separates us from our abusers. Abusers absolutely do not feel empathy, they do not feel guilt, they do not feel remorse, they do not feel anything the way you and I feel them. So, it’s really important to allow the emotions to allow the feelings to allow the empathy, but don’t practice idiot compassion. So, Pema Chodren talks about the difference between having compassion and idiot compassion. So, compassion is kind of like what I did for that woman. It’s like recognizing she’s disordered. Not having anything to do with her doing the tonglen. Metta meditation, may she have peace, may she have freedom from suffering. May she have all that she needs food, shelter, companionship, they should have enlightenment, they should have peace. You know, it’s like, okay, and letting her go, right? Idiot compassion would have been, I need to fix her. I need to I need to confront her. I need to do this. I need to know I don’t need to do anything. It’s a pay taxes of that. So, you know, it’s like, idiot compassion is I need to fix them. I need to have them in my life. So, I can fix them. No, no, no, you can have compassion for somebody at a distance. So, I have compassion for my dad, I do he was a complete jackwagon a total psychopath. A total dark triad, a total borderline a total. I mean, he had so many issues. It wasn’t even funny.

Kris Godinez  47:08

But and, again, suffering, he was suffering. He was a sufferer. He suffered literally, like, literally. And that’s what made him such a mean, nasty son of a moon. You know, and so I can understand why he behaved the way he did, but I’m not going to give him a pass. And at that point in my life, when he finally died, I had moved, like, as far away as I possibly could, I think I was I was in Oregon at the time, he was in California, I was in Oregon. And I told John, I said, I don’t want to be anywhere near my family, I don’t want to have access. I don’t want them to have access to me. I don’t want to be involved in the drama, I want to be far enough away. So that, you know, I can love them from afar. And that’s basically what I did. You know, I knew my dad was disordered. I knew I couldn’t fix them. And sticking around would have only damaged me. And my older sister and I talked about this. And she was like, Oh, hell yeah, get as far away as you can. Because I stuck around thinking I could help mom. And instead, all that did was create drama. And I’m not yeah, now I’m stepping away. So yeah. So yeah, you can love people from afar, you could have compassion for them from afar does not make you a bad person and makes you have good boundaries. So yeah, that’s a boundary. That’s a boundary. So um, yeah. So, it’s, yeah, it can be because Empathy means we care. And when we care, our abusers find what we care about, and then kill it, harm it hurt it, make us suffer. So yeah, that’s why we go numb. And that’s why it’s sometimes hard to kind of find that empathy again. But it’s hugely important to do so because that’s what separates us from the abuser. So yeah, absolutely.

Okay, um, how can we set internal boundaries, around our empathy with people going through terrible events and other parts of the world like stuff in the news, okay. So, I try not to watch the news to be perfectly honest. Remember, if it bleeds, it leads, so they will intentionally put the worst stories out there. I’ll check in with the news literally, maybe once a day, or maybe once every couple of days just to see what’s going on. And if there’s something that I can help with, I will help with. So, for example, whenever I hear about a hoarding situation with dogs, I’ll figure out what the local, you know, humane society or the local rescue, the local that you know what I’m saying the local dog helping place whatever that is Humane Society Rescue etc. And I’ll donate I’ll just donate. I’ll just be like, this is specifically for these dogs that were hoarded. You know, there you go. Or, you know, these cats or you know, whatever. So that makes me feel good. And that’s what I’ll do. I’ll donate to Doctors Without Borders if…. Pakistan, dear Lord, like apparently a third of the country is now underwater because of the monsoon. So yeah, so I’ll donate to Doctor Doctors Without Borders. But I’ll make it a donation I can afford, you know, you don’t want to, you don’t want to kill yourself trying to help other people again, boundaries, boundaries, what can I afford? Okay, I can do that. Okay, I can do that. Okay, I’m done for this month.

Kris Godinez  50:39

You know what I’m saying? So yeah, and you just realize you do what you can. And if you can’t do anything else, you do the metta meditation, or you contact whatever organization that might be doing stuff, see if you can volunteer, you know, that kind of thing. So, but again, the difference between doing what you can and codependency or idiot compassion, is you never ever want to kill yourself over you don’t want to get to the point where you’re broken, you can’t pay rent, you don’t want to get to the point where you’re exhausted, and you can’t go on in a normal life. That’s codependency. That’s where we’re like giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and not replenishing the pot. So yeah, so it’s just kind of like, what can I do? What can I afford, okay, I can’t afford money, but I can do a metta meditation, or I can do whatever. So, where I can volunteer, you know, and help pack boxes, or I can, you know, whatever. So, there’s tons of, there’s, um, if you go on to Google, and you look up volunteer opportunities, at least in Phoenix, there’s a whole list of volunteer opportunities that you can do for different organizations that are helping other parts of the world. So yeah, so do that if you feel called to do that. So again, don’t extend yourself to the point where you’re keeling over where you’re broke. So there that is okay.

And it’s normal to feel awful. That’s why I only watch the news once a day or every other day or whatever, just to get a taste of what’s going on. Because when those stories do come up, it does it does affect us. If you’ve got a heart, if you’re not a complete psychopath, yeah, it’s going to affect you. You’re going to read those stories and have empathy. You’re going to read those stories and go, what can I do? How can I help? How can I? How can we make this better, because it’s driving me crazy. So, it’s true that you do what you can, and you have to let the rest go. And that’s all you can do. So there that is, okay.

Um, how can I deal better with repressed anger? My knee jerk reaction is to yell because I want to be heard. Yeah, that’s normal. It’s really annoying because as soon as I’m calm again, I feel like a whiny child. Okay. So, anger is not a pure emotion. Love is Love, Lust is lust. Happy is happy. Sad is sad. Anger is the bodyguard of the softer emotions, sadness, betrayal, fear, hurt. So, we want to be heard. And that’s an inner child thing. So, when we’re not heard as kids, we tend to be yellers, when we become adults, because we’re tired of not being heard. So, I would again, suggest get with a really good trauma therapist, there’s a great book called There’s a Cow in the Parking Lot. It’s a Buddhist approach to anger management.

So, anger is not the issue. The issue is not being heard. So instead of getting louder and yelling, a more effective way is to get quieter. And I don’t mean quieter, like shutting up. I mean, like, lower your voice. Lower your voice. This is what I’m trying to say. You are not listening to me. Because that forces people to pull in, and it also forces them to listen. So yeah, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever had an adult do the lowering the voice thing when you were a kid, oh that works. So, it’s because you’re not being heard. So if somebody’s not hearing you, instead of yelling, they’re still not going to hear you. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like, just because you’re getting louder doesn’t mean they’re going to hear you. So people who are dedicated to misunderstanding you are not going to hear you. So, it depends on who your audience is. And this is somebody who truly cares about you. They’ll want to hear you and you won’t have to yell. But if they’re not hearing you, lower your voice and if they’re still not hearing you walk away because the issue is now theirs, not yours. So not being heard is a huge issue with adult survivors of trauma with adult survivors of narcissistic parents. We weren’t heard as kids, we weren’t respected, we weren’t cherished and loved and cared for the way we should have been. Because a lot of narcissists have this very Victorian attitude of, you know, children are to be seen and not heard and in some cases, not even seen. So, um, yeah, get with a good trauma therapist work on that Self-Esteem Workbook, Glenn Schiradi, you have a voice you have worth, and you don’t need to prove it to anybody. Actions speak louder than words, if somebody’s not hearing you, and they’re consistently not hearing you.

Kris Godinez  55:41

Even when you get soft, huh problems with them, not with you. So there is that? Also remember, repressed anger, write it out, write it out, write it out, write it out, burn it. What is this anger really about? What is this incident remind you of? Because sometimes the current event is really triggering a past event. So the anger may not be all about the current event. There may be anger about the past event. So write out your anger about not being heard. Who didn’t hear you? Dear mom, Dear dad, Dear grandparents, Dear teachers, Dear whoever. You didn’t hear me when I was fill in the blank. This is how it made me feel. I feel worthless. I feel unheard I feel unloved I feel you know, not valued, etc., etc., etc. Guess what? I’m taking my power back. If you’re unwilling to hear me, that’s your problem, not mine. Especially when I’ve been very clear. I’m going to therapy now. I’m working on myself. I’m working on self esteem. You don’t get to run me anymore. Have a nice life. And I have a nice life. I mean, go parents and trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, but do get with a good trauma therapist to work on this stuff because it’s impacting your current relationships. So some of it could be the current relationships but it’s triggering stuff from the past. So there is that all right, kids, I’m going to call it for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. Alright, you guys have a great week and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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