Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

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So, lies that they tell to keep us stuck. Oh, so many. If their lips are moving, they are lying. Let’s just be clear about that, unfortunately. So basically, what the first lie they start with is the I Love You lie. The love bombing, the love bombing, love bombing, this Mirroring is a lie. And it’s hard for us to see. Because when we come in contact with one of these abusers, they mirror us perfectly, perfectly. And we’re coming up on Valentine’s Day. So, we’re coming into the heaviest part of the hoovering season. I mean, Christmas was pretty heavy, but we’re coming into another heavy part of the hoovering season, this time of year, they’re either looking for new supply, or they are going back to old supply and lying to get the old supply or they’re lying to get the new supply if that makes any sort of sense. So basically, if their lips are moving, they’re lying. So, the first lie they tell us is the love bombing. So, when they’re on the hunt for a new supply, they figure out everything that we like.

So, something to be really careful of is when you’re dating, especially God, please don’t go on dating websites, they are filled with predators filled and I keep telling people this and then I keep getting comments back going, oh my god, I just met another narcissist on this website. I can’t believe it. And I’m like, um, please go off of those websites, you’re not going to meet a well, you might but it would be a rarity. It would be like, you know, one in a million. It is filled with predators because they can pretend to be whoever they want to be on the online sites. You know, the best way to meet somebody honest to God, first of all, you work on yourself. I know I’m going off on a tangent, sorry, I’ll get back to the topic. First, you want to work on yourself and get your self-esteem rock-solid, know who the heck you are. And then you go do the things you love. And that is where you’re going to meet like-minded people. If you’re specifically looking for a partner or a dating or things like that, you’re going to find predators, go do the things you love, work on your self-esteem, get your self-esteem, rock-solid, know who the heck you are, and then go off and do that. Why? Because back to the lies they tell.

So, to hook us, they start asking all sorts of questions, you know, and they’re pumping us for information. We don’t even realize it. We think that oh, it’s just the normal. You know, they’re, they’re asking, you know what I like what I don’t like it’s the normal dating thing. It’s the normal, normal getting to know you kind of thing. But if you’ll notice, they’re pumping you for information. They give up very, very few bits of information about themselves. They don’t really talk about themselves. They’re trying to figure out who you are what you’re about, you know, and then they start doing the Prince Han/Princess Anna Frozen thing. Oh, you like moose? I like moose. You like to ice skate. I like to ice skate, you like pizza. I like pizza, you know, the whole everything you like they like kind of thing. Mirroring, so they’re mirroring you. So that’s the first lie. Okay, then as the time goes on, it’s like some of them and especially if they’re closer to the dark triad end of the spectrum. They just lie to see if they can get the frick away with it. That’s really they’re kind of it’s a it’s a game to them. And with others, they lie because they are serial cheaters and I want to talk about that as well.

So, somebody asked me, why do they need a harem? Okay, so

Kris Godinez  04:46

if they are narcissistic more than likely they are cheaters and more than likely you’re not the only one and more than likely they’ve got a whole bunch of harem out there male/female doesn’t matter they need narcissistic supply like we need oxygen. Okay, so what a narcissist does and especially the more psychopathic they are, they need a harem. They need that constant of who can I call on who can I get the supply from? Who can I get this from? Who can I get that from? So, they romance or woo multiple partners without telling any of these partners now there’s a difference between polyamorous and cheating. Polyamorous is where everybody is on board. Everybody knows about everybody else. Everybody is on the same page. Everybody understands that this is a polyamorous relationship. With a narcissist, they go out and they get different people, but they don’t tell any of the other ones. And they tell each one of them. You’re the only one

Kris Godinez  05:43

I know. I know. I know. So. And another thing they like to do. And this is something that somebody had asked me about online, they were like, can you talk more about double affairs? So, a double affair is when the narcissist is married, the target is married, and they start going after the target who’s married but they’re married. So, a double affair. It’s in the urban dictionary at the double affairs when both parties are married. But there is an affair going on. Now. Why would a narcissist do that? Oh, em, gee, can you say supply? like nobody’s business? Remember, they are all ego there is not a shred of decency about this person whatsoever. They don’t care about anybody except themselves. Me, me, me I, I, I more, my genitals. That really is the way they think. So, when they’re doing a double affair, it is a double. What’s the word I’m looking for? It’s like, it’s double nose candy for them. To be able to get the target of abuse away from an established relationship… It’s like cocaine for them, seriously. So, they love it because it’s, it’s exciting. And oh look, I was able to take them out of this relationship and up dah dah dah dah dah dah, dah dah. So, it’s, it’s a sort of looking for is an ego thing. It is a power and control thing. Look how powerful I am. Look how brilliant I am. Look how smart I am or how handsome or beautiful I am. Look how, you know, whatever their thing is, I was able to do this. Now, the thing of it is, is that they’re not just doing this to one married person, they probably have multiple that none of them know about and something else I have gotten question about questions about is,

okay, I’ve discovered that they have multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple partners. They’re married, I’m married, they’ve ruined my marriage. You know, should I talk to the wife? Should I? I wouldn’t. I mean, some clients have done that. And it did turn out, okay, the wife was willing to confront the abuser and leave them and you know, basically let them get their just desserts. But a lot of times it doesn’t turn out, okay. And the reason for that is, is because if the person is as disordered as the narcissist is, and sometimes that happens, either they’re disordered or they’re deep in denial, and they don’t want to deal with it, and they want to believe that the person is a good person, they’re not going to believe you. And then that creates the Drama Triangle, where you have the hero, the villain and the victim, You’re the villain. The spouse is the victim, the narcissist is the hero. So, you don’t even want to you don’t even want to entertain that. Now, if the spouse comes to you, and wants to know stuff, you know, leave it up to your discretion, what good is it going to do you know if it’s going to do good, great, do it if it’s going to harm you in any way, shape, or form or if they’re going to turn around and use it against you in any way, shape, or form? Don’t do it. So yeah, so that’s a double affair is when the narcissist who’s married, goes after a married target, and they generally have more than one married target that they’re going after. It’s this weird how do I explain this? It’s this weird thing of juggling? How many? Can I keep going? How many can I keep going? How long can I keep this lie going?

And what they tell each target of abuse is, Oh, Baby, you’re the only one oh, you know, I’m in this horrible relationship and my spouse is just an awful person. And this that and the other thing and it turns out generally that the spouse is not an awful person that the narcissist is telling the newest target this in order to feel get them to feel sympathy for them, in order to get them to feel sorry for them in order to get them on their side, etc, etc. And they’re not just doing it to the one target. They’re doing it to every single target that they’re, you know, they’re telling them how horrible the spouse is or how horrible this other person is. Generally, they don’t let them know that they’re dating other people. They, they try to make each spouse or each target think that they’re the only one but they generally villainize the, the spouse that they’re currently with because villain, victim hero, they need that triangle. So, they will keep people strung along for years, decades in some cases, because what they will do is they will say things like, Oh, well, you know, I just, I can’t leave him right now you know, the kids the financial and, you know, she would just clean me out and I can’t do it. And, you know, Ba,ba, Ba,ba Ba,ba, but you know, that whole, you know, that whole thing. If their lips are moving, they’re lying. The other thing they’ll say is, oh, well, you know, I’m going to divorce them. I’m going to divorce them. It’s going to happen, you know, decades go by, I’m gonna divorce them, it’s gonna happen. And then it never does. Because they don’t want to lose the supply. And they enjoy the harem. They enjoy. And remember, this is not just male narcissists, female targets. This can be female narcissist. Male targets, they do the same thing. It doesn’t matter. Male, female doesn’t matter. They do the same thing. So, they will target you know it and they will keep them all stringing along. Oh, yeah. I’m gonna leave him. Oh, yeah, this is gonna happen. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I can’t do it right now. I just don’t have the money. Oh, it’s not safe right now. You know, they come up with 100,000 million different excuses. And so what is so frustrating is when I deal with clients that are going through this, I tell them point blank, break up with them. Break up with them. They’re not ever going to leave that spouse. They’re not. This is a game and you are the favorite punching bag right now, you know, for narcissistic supply because they get their jollies off on telling you Oh, yeah, yeah, I’m gonna leave this person. Meanwhile, they never do and you keep coming back. And you keep hoping that this person is going to live up to all of these lies that they’ve told you, Oh, yeah.

When we’re when we’re together, future faking. Future faking. When we’re together, it’s going to be fabulous. We’ll move to Maui. You know, it’ll be great. We’ll, we’ll start over. It’ll be a fresh clean slate, we’ll you know. And it’ll be great. You know, you and I will go travel, we’ll go do this, we’ll go do that. And they don’t mean any of it. They’re not about to leave their spouse No way in hell, and especially if they are in

Kris Godinez  12:22

a communal narcissist position, like pillar of the community, they’re not going to divorce their spouse, they want everyone to think that that little family unit is perfect and has absolutely no cracks in it whatsoever. So, they do future faking, you know, it’s going to be great when I finally leave my spouse and you and I will be together and we’ll do it never happens. It never happens. They are never willingly going to divorce that person. Because a they enjoy the drama that’s coming from all the different supplies and be if they’re a communal narcissist, they want the prestige of everybody thinking that they’ve got this perfect little family unit. If they get divorced. There goes that thing.

So, there was an article that I really liked on elephant journal. And it was called how to move on without closure and healing from fantasy bonds. And let’s see who wrote this. Let’s see if I can find Naomi day Gasperus it’s a really good article. So um, it’s on elephant journal. And I know they do ads where they’re like, please pay please help us. You don’t have to, but it’s I love elephant journal. So, I subscribe to them. Breakups are painful. There’s no quick way through the heartache, basically. And then, you know, they go through like the the narratives, what do we tell ourselves about this? So, fantasy bonds, and this is what abusers get us to buy into is the fantasy bond/ trauma bonding. Yes, they absolutely do the intermittent positive rewards with us absolutely in one of these situations, but they also do the future faking, which is a fantasy bond. So, let’s talk about that. Fantasy bonds in fantasy bonds closure is nearly impossible, because the attachment was to a version of the person not the actual person. How many times have I said that? When we fall for them when they do the love bombing. You know, love bomb, love bomb, love bomb. You love pizza. I love pizza. You love moose. I love moose. You love ice skating. I love ice skating. They create this fantasy. Oh baby, baby. I’m going to leave them and we’re going to have this great romantic, exciting, adventurous life together future faking right. And so, we start buying in to the fantasy that they are selling. This is psychopathy, psychopathy. This really is. It’s like this dark triad.

So they get us buying into that fantasy. Um, it’s a pattern Falling in love with potential. How many times have we gotten involved with a narcissist in the past and we fell in love with their potential with but they’re so smart, that they’re so funny. But there’s so this there’s so that they have the they have the potential No, here’s the deal. They have the ability to mimic like predator. Did you remember that movie Predator, predator would mimic and yeah.

Kris Godinez  15:29

So they mimic they that that’s not really them, they are doing behavior that they see that you like in the beginning, they mimic it, they’re mimicking, they’re, they’re basically mirroring you back to you. And you start thinking oh my gosh, that’s them. This is great. You know, somebody who gets me somebody who understands somebody who loves me, somebody who you know, has the same moral code, somebody who, etc, etc, etc. But really, it turns out, they don’t, they’re just mimicking and once the supply goes away, the mimicking goes away and the real them comes roaring out and they’re not funny. They’re not smart, they’re not kind they’re not any of the good qualities that you are. Remember, they try to take over the target, they try to mimic the target as best they can, because they want those qualities, they want to be known as loving and kind and funny and this and that. And the other thing with the reality of it is they simply do not, they cannot, they do not feel the way we do and that is heartbreaking because we have fallen in love with the potential the fantasy of overlooking present unmet needs for the possibility of future needs being met future faking, we hope that somehow this person will become more aware, more kind, more attentive, the lack of affection, unreturned calls and broken promises get smoothed over and rationalized away with this imaginative narrative.

So this is the thing that every survivor of abuse must do when leaving one of these abusive relationships you have to write down every rotten thing they ever did, every way that they lied, every untruth every half-truth every omission every, every way that they harmed you, every way that they hurt you. Stop making excuses for their sorry hind end. And this is what I see happening over and over and over again with especially with survivors that are coming out of initially the very first you know, recognizing realizing getting out of they start making excuses for the abuser because they’ve done it for decades. You got to stop making excuses for them. There is no excuse. There is no excuse and something that I heard somebody say the other day and I just wanted to throat punch and they were like oh but Hurt people hurt people….go blow it out of your nose. No, I’m sorry. How many of us came from really, really, really awful families. Hello, hurt people do not hurt people, psychopaths, hurt people. narcissists hurt people, people at the end of the spectrum hurt people. That’s who does that. Okay, so no, it’s not Oh, poor them. They had a rough life. See, that’s, that’s another lie that they tell. Oh, I had this horrible childhood. Okay, well join the frickin club. You don’t see the rest of us acting like a bunch of buffoons. Thank you very much. You know it’s, it’s like they tell the sob story. I had this horrible childhood. This is the reason why name whatever BS that they’re lying about, you know.

So again, sex, a lot of times they’ll use sex and they’ll lie about sex. So in the beginning, they’re like crazy sexual, and then they get their hooks into you. And the sex dries up.

Kris Godinez  18:50

Oh, it’s my childhood. Oh, well, it’s this well fine go to therapy. And they never do. Because they don’t want to fix it and it probably is not the real issue. So yeah, they use all sorts of BS to keep us hooked. The lack of affection, the unreturned calls, the broken promises gets smoothed, rationalized away with an imaginary narrative. So, you cannot give yourself, you know what I’m saying? A fake narrative! What is, what is really right here in front of you. What are they doing? How are they harming you? That is reality. That’s the real them and that is so hard for targets of abuse to wrap their heads around, is that this person who came across as prince or princess charming was an illusion. I know. A mirage that disappears as soon as you get close to it. That’s a good analogy. Yeah, it’s a mirage that disappears. As soon as you get close to it, poof, gone. Not there. You know, and the real them is the one that goes and wants to harm hurt, take over demon demoralized, devalue, discard and keep looking for other targets of abuse, because they need a harem, to keep that ginormous ego going.

So they’re literally how do I explain this? If they don’t have somebody feeding their ego, they, in their minds pretty much cease to exist. And that’s a terrifying thought for them. And that’s why they’re so vicious about what they do. And you know, instead of turning inwards and going, kill the ego, who am I really? What is my place in the universe? What’s, you know, what’s my purpose? How can I help mankind, you know, that kind of thing. It’s all feed the ego feed the ego, feed the ego, feed the ego, use as many people as you can feed the ego, you know, evil, basically, if you want my personal opinion, okay.

Back to this article, how to move on without closure. We end up giving more chances and more leeway because our thoughts stay stuck on the fantasy bond, and the kind of toxic hope that sounds like, oh, maybe they just don’t get it. Maybe they’re in a bad place. If I can help them understand. If we can work through this, it would be so great. Maybe we need more time, more communication, more sex, more vacations, if they realize what’s happening, and how, how it makes me feel, how good we could be, and then everything will get better. But it never happens, guys, ever. They don’t care. They don’t. I mean, I’m sorry. But listen, it’s like if you’re in a healthy relationship, a healthy one. And if there is a communication issue, you bring it up to your partner, and the partner will more than likely go, Hey, I need to work on that. Let me go either buy some books, or let me go get with a therapist and figure out where this Hiccup is coming from. There’s no fear. And there’s no ego involved. With a narcissist. If you ask them to go get therapy, they come unglued. I don’t like therapists. There are a bunch of frauds, they’re fake. They’re this, I’m not going there’s nothing wrong with me. That was my father’s favorite thing. And I’m just like, Oh, I think a whole town of Gridley can tell you what’s wrong with you, daddy dearest, but okay, you know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s just, they’re crazy. They’re crazy. And they don’t want to go get help, because they know, they know, intrinsically that there is something wrong with them. And they just don’t want the confirmation. Because remember, they think they’re gods. So if somebody comes along and goes, Oh, by the way, you’re not, you know, that kind of blows their whole ego thing.

Kris Godinez  22:33

So, um, so yeah, so we’ve got to get out of that fantasy, if only, not if only… what is. What is, what is, is that they have kept you away from family and friends. They’ve isolated you. They have called you names they have put you down, they have made you give up your job, they have… fill in the blank, you know, what else have they done? Have they killed the pets? Have they harmed one of your kids? Have they you know, what is? What is, not what if, what is and that’s why you write this out. That’s why you keep a list of every rotten thing that they have ever done. That is the real them. Not this beautiful fantasy of future faking. Oh, it’ll be so wonderful, will be great, will be this, will be that, no, that’s not real.

Okay, um, when the desired outcome doesn’t happen, the fantasy of the relationship comes to a crashing halt. And that can take days, weeks, months, years decades. You know, it depends on how much in denial we are. And it depends on the family of origin. You know, like if we had a family of origin that sold us a bill of goods, it’s going to take a little while for us to undo all of that and realize, okay, here’s unhealthy behavior, here’s healthy behavior, which is why getting into therapy is a really good idea if your family of origin was disordered because if your family of origin is disordered, it’s going to make you more susceptible to another disordered person. That’s an abuser that’s going to sell you a bill of goods, you need to be able to discern truth from fantasy. So, it’s really important because how many how many families of origin do this magic thinking stuff a lot? How many abusers do the magic thinking stuff all of them? You know, so it’s really important for us to figure out what is real, what is not real. And unfortunately, what is real is not this beautiful illusion of you know, prince or princess charming. The real them is when the mask slips and the claws come out. That’s the real them.

People who are healthy, have good self-esteem and good boundaries. They are very conscientious about not harming somebody and if we do harm someone, we take steps to make amends and make it right. And we own it, you know, whereas with a narcissist, there is never the word I am sorry in any sentence it’s always I’m sorry but, I’m sorry you, oh, let’s talk about the other lies they do… you, you guns. You did this. You did that … you’re the reason I can’t retire. You’re the reason we have no money. You’re the reason da, da, da, da, da, da, da. If their lips are moving, they’re lying. What they love to do is they love to get into a relationship and then they bankrupt the person they do. Not you, they do. And so that but they flip the script, and suddenly you’re bankrupting them because you went out and bought yourself. I don’t know, new pair tennis shoes or something. You know, they literally crazy, crazy. There is no there, there. So Okay, back to this thing. And then we’ll get to the questions I promise. Um okay.

Okay, experiencing a deep connection with somebody who then pulls a switch, deeply destabilizing. So that’s what they do. They, it’s like everything is great. And then you know, that clock, the abuse clock, so you…. love bombing at noon, and then at about three things start getting a little wonky. And then by six the devalue and discard, the abuse starts happening. And then by about nine, they’re realizing, okay, I pushed this too far, I’m gonna lose this supply. And then the love bombing starts all over again. So yeah, they get us to buy into the future faking. And that’s dangerous. Because how many of us wanted to believe, Oh, it’s gonna be beautiful. We’re going to go on all these great trips, we’re going to have this wonderful life, we’re going to, you know, that kind of thing, and then not so much. Okay, so I’m okay. All right. So anyway, I don’t want to go through the whole article. But I just thought that part about the fantasy, the fantasy bond, and it’s so true, they get us with the fantasy bond, and moving on without closure.

Kris Godinez  26:49

Once people are in a better place, many people come to realize that their connection was a fantasy bond. And that’s really hard. And this is According to psychologist Robert W. Firestone, PhD, author of The fantasy bond, go get it read it. Creating a fantasy of connection in is one of the ways that children cope with their unmet needs. Inner Child workbook, Catherine Taylor. In absence of a secure attachment, Kid imagines that if only mom didn’t have to work so hard, she’d be more patient and less angry. If only Daddy was around more, we wouldn’t feel so lonely or scared. If we had more money, the family would be relaxed, and things would be different. So, it’s the if only, you know, it’s not true. It’s if only it’s a kid way of thinking about it. So, this is why I say work on the inner child workbook by Katherine Taylor, or any inner child workbook, just start working on it.

So, these lies that they tell us to keep us stuck. One: I love you. Number one, they don’t love. They don’t love, look at their behavior. So, when somebody says I love you, damn straight actions and words had better damn well match, period. None of this, I love you, but I’m going to call you names, I love you, but I’m going to cheat on you, I love you. But, you know, and none of the you, you, you, you, you guns, that’s all lies as well. And if they are doing the double affair thing, you know, trying to get you to leave your spouse, you know, Oh, I’m so much better than your spouse, or I’m in such a horrible place. And only you can save me, red flag, red flag on the play 10 yards, you know, it’s like, you know, you don’t want to do that. And, and they tell lies. Once they get you, oh, I’m going to divorce them. Oh, it’ll happen. Oh, you know, well, I can’t do it right now don’t have the money, or wait until the kids are grown. Or, you know, and they do this future faking things. So you’ve got to watch out for all of this stuff.

These are all ways that they keep us stuck. You know, the intermittent positive rewards. That’s another way that they lie to us. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. Well, yeah, they do hate us. But it’s not because of us, it’s because of them.  I love you. I love you. I love you. Okay, they don’t, because you don’t hate somebody that you love. You don’t call somebody names that you love. You don’t harm somebody that you love. You don’t sabotage somebody that you love, you don’t cheat on somebody that you love, you don’t do those things to somebody that you love. And if there are issues going on in the relationship, you get that stuff handled. And if it can’t be handled, you end it, then you go out and look for somebody else. Okay? And this is the thing that gets people stuck because it kind of makes the fantasy come crashing down. And the reality of it comes up, it’s like well, no, you need to finish out this relationship over here before you even pursue this relationship over here to see if it’s even real. You know, and, and usually that’s when the whole thing starts falling down. And people have this awakening that’s very painful. Yeah, it’s it’s this is the multiple ways that they lie to keep us stuck.

So actions and words have to match. You know, they just, they do and if somebody is pursuing you and you You’re in a relationship you kind of got to ask yourself, What’s this about? What’s going on? What’s What’s the agenda what’s happening? And it’s really this remember when we’re in a when we’re in a family of origin, we have a tendency to take their word because we’ve been trained that way. No, no, you don’t see the pink elephant taking a doodoo in the corner of the living room, and if you do, I’m gonna punish you for it. So then pretty soon we go Oh, yep, not paying attention to my gut instincts. Nope, I don’t see the pink elephant. Oh, I’m just gonna take them at their word. Dangerous. That’s how we get hooked by these suckers. This is how we get harmed by them. So it’s really it’s, these are the lies they sell the fantasy bond. Is this based in reality, or is this complete fantasy? Nine times out of 10 is complete fantasy. And they need harems to keep their very fragile sense of self going remember, it’s all other esteem for them. It’s not self-esteem. It’s others to tell me how great I am. Show me how great I am. You know, give me that ego boost that I need healthy normal people. Yeah, it’s nice to hear those things, but it’s not needed. It’s kind of like icing on top of the cake. It’s not needed. Okay, enough cake itself enough. You know, icing is nice, but we don’t need it, but they need it.

So anyway, okay, let’s hit the questions. I hope that answered the question about double affairs. Why they need a harem. And the lies that they tell a fantasy the future faking the fantasy bond? Oh, it’s going to be great. Watch out for all that stuff. Write down what is not what if. And that’s what keeps us stuck is because we keep wanting to ignore what is and we keep wanting to go to what if and we can’t do that. And guess who that is running the show that would be the inner child. So inner child workbook by Katherine Taylor or any workbook on the inner child. The disease to please Harry Braiker beyond codependent no more Melanie Beatty or codependent and more also by Melanie Beatty.

Kris Godinez  32:00

And the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, you’ve got to get your self-esteem where you know who the heck you are. They can’t tell you who they are. And when somebody does a total BS moo, you’re able to go wait a minute, my gut is screaming at me. This is not something’s not right. Because oftentimes, what I see with people coming out of a situation where there has been a double affair, there cognitive dissonance because the abuser has been telling them lies. And then here’s reality, and then it comes all crashing down. And they’re like, but, but, but they told me… Well, yeah, they told you a lot of stuff. And none of it was true. So what is what is not what if what is so those are lies that they tell to keep us stuck.

Alright, let’s go to the questions. Okay, where are we? My ex said I was the narcissist and the abuser now I’m scared of opening up again. How do I work on that? Okay, if you watched the show I did last week, they throw around terms they do. And unfortunately, they come on to channels like this and they get enough information in terms that they then turn around and throw it onto the target of abuse. So very often, I have targets sit on my couch. Well, in the old days when I actually did in person I’m still doing online. Um, thank you. COVID. Um, so they come in and they’re like, Oh, my God, they said they said, the abuser says I’m antisocial. And again, if you want to clear that up, go to the Mayo Clinic look up antisocial. If you’re not setting fires and intentionally breaking laws, you’re not antisocial. Oh my God. They said I was a psychopath. Okay, that is technically not in the DSM five why I have no idea… it is used in legal and clinical terms. Don’t get me started anyway. The point being is if you’re in not, you know, in trouble with the law, setting fires kleptomaniac. You know, liking hurting people. And if you’re terrified of being any of the things that the narcissist said you were then you’re not that okay, let’s just be clear. They throw terms around to try to undermine you. So, this is why I’m saying self-esteem is a must. Self-esteem is a must if we know who we are they cannot manipulate us because they can lie all they want and your guts gonna be going a red flag, red flag danger Will Robinson, danger, you know, and you’re gonna be able to go That’s a load of crap. I’m not, I’m not buying that. Thanks for playing by, you know, you cannot be manipulated. That’s why self-esteem is your best defense against any and all manipulators, liars, abusers, etc. Psychopaths, narcissists. malignant borderlines the whole thing because you know who you are, who you are really, you know what your morals are, you know what your code of ethics are, you know what you like, you know what you dislike. They come in and try to tell us all this stuff. And they try to do cognitive dissonance, they try to basically put a blender in our head and turn it on, you know, chop, or whatever the high setting is, and basically get you confused. That’s their goal. So, if you are working on self-esteem and know who you are rock, solid sun comes up in the east, you will be bulletproof against these people. They won’t even try, they won’t even come sniffing around.

It’s like Susanna and I were talking the other day. And, you know, we both said that it’s like, it’s so funny, because when we were going through the learning about all this stuff, you know, in our own therapies in our own learning thing, you know, yeah, we would get taken advantage of because we hadn’t completed the work, we’d started the work, but we hadn’t completed the work. And then once we completed the work, it was like, oh, yeah, trolls, and narcissists try to come around all the time. Or at least they used to, and you know, and then we’re both just like, Flick, flick, not buying it flick. And pretty soon they stopped because they know we’re not going to buy it. Sorry, go find somebody else go away, you know. And that’s really what it’s all about is making yourself bulletproof. So that you can go live your life and be healthy, happy and whole, know who you are. Have good self-esteem, like yourself, you know, do the mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day, I give you permission to like yourself, and then walk out. Do that every day. I do that every day. Every time I catch my reflection in a mirror or window. I say something nice to myself. That is part of self-esteem. That is not egotistic. egoism. Narcissism goes tell me I’m great. Other esteem, other esteem other people need to tell me I’m great. Other people need to both bolster me. That’s ego that’s narcissistic. Self-esteem is just you being kind to you and being the parent you always needed that you probably didn’t get. So that’s what you want to work on is self-esteem, the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi.

So look up the terms if an abuser is calling you names, and you’re afraid of it, and you’re like, Oh my God, I don’t want to be that. Congratulations. You’re not that because narcissists don’t care. They actually think that these terms are something good. Because Oh, I can intimidate people I can frighten people I can, you know, do XY and Z. So they don’t understand that being called a narcissist. Is no bueno. So there is that.

All right. Um, do female narcissists seek out married men on purpose to destroy their marriage and blackmail them? Well, they can. Now that’s something that I did not talk about is the blackmail aspect of it. So, what narcissists will do I started to with the talking about sexual stuff. So, what narcissists will do is they will encourage their partner to do things that they would not otherwise do, whether that is a partner that’s married, or just a plain old, you know, single target or whatever. They’ll tape them having sex, they’ll ask them to do orgies or threesomes or things that they would not normally do. And then they’ll try to blackmail them with it. Yeah, absolutely. But here’s the thing. So that’s a federal offense. It’s called revenge porn. And it’s a federal offense, and it will land them in jail for a very long time. So yeah, it’s yeah, they do. They do. They absolutely do. Because they’re counting on the fear of the partner, spouse finding out so they’ll videotape it or tape it, or I don’t even know what it’s called nowadays, in my day, in my day.

Kris Godinez  38:57

And my day, we have VHS

Kris Godinez  39:02

whatever they’re doing to make, you know, movies, they’re doing that. And so they’ll do that with the hopes that they can then manipulate and control the person that they had the affair with, with the fear of oh my gosh, their spouse finding out so basically, it’s like, I hate to say it, and I tell my clients this all the time, if you want to not be manipulated and controlled, you’re gonna have to tell your spouse that you had an affair. You know, especially if they’re trying to use that as blackmail. And will it blow apart the marriage? Yeah, it could. It absolutely could. There’s a great book called after the affair, and I do not know who wrote it. I’ll have to look it up. Or Johnny, if you could look it up. That would be great. Thanks. It’s called after the affair and it helps both the person who had the affair and the person who had been cheated on kind of understand what’s going on the unmet needs that you know, the things that need to be worked on the communication this or that Some people take the spouse’s back. Some people don’t, you know, and it’s better honestly, truth is always the best way. Because it’s gonna come out at some point. And if somebody is trying to use something against you, I would much rather be like, Okay, here’s the truth. Here’s what happened. Great. Now, what are you going to use? You know what I’m saying? Because they do remember, they’re, they’re evil. They’re antisocial. Truly, you know, because that’s blackmail. That’s extortion. Hello, that’s illegal. You know, and they’re trying to maintain power and control over somebody by doing that. Yeah, in the smear campaign, I’ve seen them also send these videos to family and friends. Oh, look what a look at what a player he is. Or look what a slut she is, or whatever their BS is, you know what I’m saying? And they try to do that for the smear campaign. But then, you know, the question really that needs to be asked is why are you filming this and sending this to people? extortion? Yeah, blackmail? Yeah. Oh, that’s a federal offense. Great. Thanks for giving me the evidence. I needed to get my restraining order on you and send you to jail. Have a nice day. And bye have a nice day. I mean, go pound sand. Yeah, they do that absofreakinglutely. They’re, you know, unethical, immoral, evil.

How are we doing on time? Oh, we’re good. Okay. Um, all right. Is it okay to grieve the fantasy I had of my ex? Yes. Sometimes I feel dumb for crying over it. No, don’t feel dumb for crying over it. I missed what I had with him. Even though he was a monster. Does that make me dumb? No, sweetheart, it does not. So, let’s talk about that. When they love bomb us, okay. They present themselves as everything we ever wanted in a partner. Funny, sexy, intelligent, kind, caring, empathic, everything. They were mirroring us back to us. So really, we kind of fell in love with ourselves. So that’s kind of the good news/Bad news kind of thing. Do we grieve the loss of that illusion? Absolutely. absofreakinglutely. It was real. To us. It was not real in reality, but it was real to us. And it felt real. Which is why their whole selling us a bill of goods is so dangerous because it feels real. It does. It feels real. No, you are not stupid. Dear God, please stop calling yourself names pretty please. Sweet are darling. Do not call yourself names. Every everybody here has ever been fooled by future fakers. Raise your hand and who grieved the loss. Hello? Yeah. In my book. What’s wrong with your dad, I talk about my dad, you know, and if only. If only he had been sane. If only he had been a good dad. I missed the fantasy that I had in my head. Because remember, we talked about this, I said, you know, in my head, I was like, they have to be aliens. Aliens, that, you know, aliens replaced them and that they simply didn’t know, my dad simply didn’t know how to be a human being because he was an alien. And that was the that was how I coped as a little kid pretty imaginative. So, you know, and so that’s how I made it okay, is that he was an alien. And so, when he died, ooh getting emotional about this When he died, I had to go back through and comfort that little three-year-old, six-year-old, eight-year-old, you know, and really talk her through honey. He wasn’t an alien. He was abusive. He was crazy. He was disordered. He was never, ever not on this or any other planet going to be the dad you wanted or needed. So I’m your parent. Now. Let me reparent you. Let me parent you, let me love you. Let me come for you. Let me protect you. And let me help you grieve the loss of the parent you wished you had. And it’s the same thing when we have a romantic partner. We have to grieve the loss of the romantic partner that we wished we had.

Kris Godinez  44:14

It’s heartbreaking it is and it is a grieving process and you’re absolutely not stupid. Every single one of us here on this channel has been there, done that… that’s why we’re all here. So, you’re not stupid sweetie. Don’t ever put yourself down. Don’t ever. What’s the word I’m looking for? Don’t ever allow the abusers voice to come out of your mouth. You know what I’m saying? You’re not stupid. You’re not. Loving is not stupid. Loving is not stupid. It’s just that we unfortunately got trapped by an abuser in an abusive relationship and we fell for it that doesn’t make a stupid and we loved, we loved and they hated us for it. They want us dead. That’s essentially what they want is they want us Dead either emotionally, spiritually, physically, they want us dead, because they will never feel the depth of love and depth of emotion that we feel. They don’t have it. They’re incapable of it. So, it is a grieving process.

So, what I would recommend, is write a goodbye letter. And you’re going to write a goodbye letter to the illusion, but you’re going to have to remember don’t get stuck in Oh, but it was so great. And oh, if only and Oh, but when they did this, oh, but back in the love bombing. Don’t get stuck in that you can talk about it for sure. So, the good that would be the good when they mirrored you back to you, and all of the things that you thought were great about them. But then you need to go to the bad. When did the devalue and discard start? When did the mask start slipping? And then the ugly. When did they start really doing the abuse? What did they say to you? How did they hurt you? And then the unforgiveable, The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, the horrific, or the unforgivable. And you talk about that. And at the very, very end, you tell them good bye. They’re not real, that I wish that’d be great. But you’re not real, a real human being would never have done X, Y, and Z. Ever. How dare you? How dare you sell me this bill of goods? How dare you pretend that you were this person when you were not. So, this is where I cut the cord. This is where I say goodbye, this is it, we’re done. You’re dead to me, you are dead because you never existed. Goodbye. And you’re going to cry, and you’re going to be angry and you’re going to be hurt, and you’re going to be betrayed, and you’re going to be sad, and you’re going to be every single emotion you could possibly think of, then you trot it out to the barbecue, read it out loud once burn it or you can keep it to remind yourself that this was an illusion, this was not real. And you may have to do that several times. This is a grieving process. And the hardest death bunny ears, we will ever grieve is that of a living person that is still walking around, still breathing still harming other people.

Kris Godinez  47:24

That that person that they presented to us never existed was not real. I mean, it existed with us. But it was not real. They presented what they thought we wanted, so that they could hook us and then use us. So, so you’re not stupid, sweetie, every one of us here has been there and done that whether it was with a family of origin, or with a romantic partner, a friend, a boss. We’ve all been there done that you’re in good company. None of us are stupid. You’re not stupid.

So basically, it’s learning to trust our gut. And learning to watch for the signs the warning signs of how they behave. The biggest thing I think that I want to warn people about is the love bombing phase. You know if they’re needing to be with you every waking moment, Houston, there’s a problem. If their love bombing and they love everything that you do, like literally everything that’s a red flag, you know, if they don’t have their own friends, their own life, their own this, their own that that’s also a red flag. Promise me, you will only say good things about yourself. Okay, were we gullible? Yeah, we were. But you know what? I would rather feel and have fallen for something like that, then to never feel at all. Does that make sense? So wiser, sadder, older? Yeah, for sure. You betcha. I dated my share of narcissists when I was younger. So, but you know, once we start working on ourselves, and once we really start loving ourselves, we don’t call ourselves names. And that’s where I want you to get, I want you to get to the point where it’s like, okay, learning experience, not the most fun. But here’s what I learned from it. And no, I’m not a bad person for having this happen. And no, I’m not a bad person for grieving the loss of this illusion. This is what normal healthy people would do. In this situation, we would grieve the loss of that, you know, normal healthy people probably would not get involved with a narcissist. But again, realize it’s a journey. I got involved with narcissists when I was in college and young adult you know a couple of them so you know, it’s a learning process and it’s realizing family of origin what’s going on with that what groomed me to start dating these types and then once you realize okay, I came out of this really abusive relationship. Yeah, I do miss the illusion but boy howdy, that’s not real and what comes with that illusion the cost is too high. You’re worth more than that. So self-esteem workbook Schiraldi, mirror, work, gentle, gentle, gentle. gentle with you. Gentle with you, please. Okay. All right, next question. Dun dun, da How are we doing on time?

Okay, um, how do I oldest of four and my youngest sister heal from the trauma of discovering through DNA testing that our late mother lied to everyone, including her husband about who our fathers were, oh, oooh, so they do that. They lie about adoption. They lie about who parents are, they lie about… if their lips are moving, they’re lying. And it’s because they’re hiding something, you know, either they are trying to make themselves look goody goody two shoes. You know, there’s, I have heard of parents that hid that the kids were adopted until some medical issue came up. And then when the kid was like, Hey, I’ve got this genetic thing. And there’s nobody in the family that has this. And the doctor is telling me, this is impossible, your family has to have this what’s going on? Finally, it came out. And it was just devastating. Because it was like 56 years later, and it’s like, why would you do that to a kid? So um, yeah. Don’t get me started. So yes, they do that. So how do you heal from that? Boy, that’s almost like another topic. But here it is.

Kris Godinez  51:28

What, in the one case of the adoption, what the girl did is she went and found her, her birth family. And some of it was great. And some of it was not great. So, you have to understand that sometimes, when we go looking for the bio dads, or the bio moms or the bio family, it may or may not be good, a lot of cases it is. But in some cases, it’s not, you know, so just be prepared. If that is the choice that you choose to do, I would get with a really good trauma therapist, both you and your sister. And I would start working this stuff through, it’s a betrayal. It’s a betrayal, it’s basically a betrayal that you were not ever told the truth. You know, when a child gets old enough to kind of understand this, it’s important to tell them this, especially if there’s like, health issues that they need to be aware of. Or if there’s, you know, hey, I don’t look like my siblings, what’s going on, you know, kids are not stupid. But narcissists, always act as if kids are stupid. And they’ll do things like talk about the kid in front of the kid expecting the kid to not listen, or to not acknowledge or whatever. So I would get with a good trauma therapist, both you and your sister, I would write and burn right and burn angry letters to Mom, mom, why didn’t you tell me? Why didn’t you tell us? Why was this a secret? Why was this you know, and a lot of times, it’s this mistaken thought or this mistaken belief that there’s shame or something involved. If there’s multiple, you know, dads, you know, kind of thing. And oh, we can’t tell them? Well, yeah, you can. It’s not the 1950s anymore, thank God, you know, so it could be shame involved, that might be the reason why they did it. Or it could be the, you know, the bio dads are maybe not people you she wanted you to be involved with, but again, that should be left up to the kid not to the mom. So, um, yeah, I would get with a therapist, and I would start working, I would write and burn, write and burn, write and burn, you know, especially if your mom has passed. And there’s no, you know, ability to go back and ask her WTF, you know, why did you do that? You know, then write and burn and get with a good trauma therapist. That would be my suggestion. Okay. Let’s see.

Um, I was falsely accused of sexual assault three years ago by a person with borderline. She left me alone for three years, but I am still worried about it and have no money for therapy or legal advice. Any advice? Well, okay. Here’s the thing. Abusers will accuse their partners of everything and their dog. unless there was a police report filed, there’s probably nothing that’s going to happen. I would speak to an attorney; I would find one of the low-cost attorneys that you could just talk to. Here in Arizona, there is fresh start women’s resource center.org, I think it is, and they have attorneys that you can talk to for like 15, 20 bucks, they’re all retired. And so they do this as like a volunteer kind of thing. So in your state, find, the State Bar, is there a place where there’s clinics, that you can go ask and find out what you need to do if they’re contacting you again, after three years, they’ve accused you of sexual assault, get a restraining order on them seriously. You know, if they’re contacting you, and you’ve made it clear, you want nothing to do with them and they’re continuing to contact you get a restraining order because honestly then if they go and try to say, Oh, this sexual assault happened three years ago, and there’s a restraining order on them, it’s they’re less likely to automatically assume that they’re the victim. Does that make sense? So yeah, they abusers do that, abusers make all these horrible accusations and they use it as a threat, they use it as blackmail. And they do that with financial stuff. They do that with sexual assault charges. They do that with, you know, I’m gonna tell everybody that you embezzled blah, blah, blah, where’s your proof? You know, I’ve seen that happen as well with clients. It’s like, you know, the abusers saying, Oh, you stole all this, where’s your proof? You know, you can make all the accusations in the world. But if it gets to the point where they are harming your reputation, that’s when you can go after them for defamation of character. So yeah, so I would write down everything that has been said or emailed to you keep every email, keep every text and go find a low-cost legal clinic that you can say, hey, this is what happened. This is what this person is doing. How do I protect myself? You know, and go get some legal advice on that. Okay, let me see if there’s any more questions. Um, I think that’s it. So gentle with yourselves my love’s gentle with yourselves. Please, please, please speak kindly to you speak to you the way you wished a good kind parent would have spoken to you. So love understanding kindness, patience. Gentle, gentle. Alright guys, be good. And thank you to my sponsor better help.com Go be awesome. I’ll talk to you later. Bye!

Kris Godinez  56:27

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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