Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so much to talk about, I wanted to start every single video with a kind of a public service announcement or at least a current events kind of thing. So for those of you who’ve been around for a while, you know that I lost my good friend, Terry Tucker last year, and I lost her due to medical incompetence. Basically, she had rectal cancer, and they kept telling her Oh, you know, it’s just, you know, you’re going through menopause and this, that, and the other thing. By the time she finally got a second opinion, it had metastasized, and it killed her. So basically, what I want to tell you guys is trust your guts. And this is part of power and control. This is part of what has to do with this theme that we’re going to be talking about today. Abusers love to take our power and control away from us, they love to make us second guess, they love to make us think that we don’t know what we know.

So, remember, narcissists are attracted to positions of power, that means psychiatrists, doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, EMTs, I’m trying to think of who else, attorneys, judges, anything, you know, police officers, anything where there is a position of power. But specifically, I want to remind you guys, you guys know your body better than anybody else, Terry knew something was wrong, right? And she kept going to these doctors, and she trusted them instead of trusting herself. That does not mean that she’s at fault for her death, I firmly plant the blame at the doctors that were Pooh poohing her that were probably narcissistic. So um, so basically, it’s like, if your body is doing something funky trust that! Go find a physician that’s going to listen to you. And I know, we’re in this weird thing where like, you know, physicians are like, you know, what is it? It’s like an assembly line. It’s like, they run you through and they barely talk to you. And they barely explain things, and they barely whatever. No, no, no, no, no, you want to make sure that your doctor is explaining things to you that you understand what tests they’re ordering, and why get the ICD code so that you can call your insurance yourself and make sure it’s covered. Because some of the things that I’ve been hearing is that the doctors will order these tests and not check with the insurance to make sure it’s covered, you go get the test, and then you’re on the hook for 1000s of dollars. I don’t know about you, but I don’t I don’t know very many people have got 1000s dollars, they can blow on medical stuff. So alright, so basically trust your gut. If your doctor is not listening to you, if they’re Pooh poohing you if they’re blowing you off, if they’re, you know, not explaining things, not making sure that you understand why you’re getting this test, or what could possibly be going on, get a different doctor. So it drives me crazy, when and especially I’ll tell you what a good doctor will never be upset that you’re getting a second opinion.

Kris Godinez  04:01

A good therapist will never be upset that you’re getting a second opinion. So, you know, it’s kind of like a good a good professional will want you to make sure you are with the person that you are going to jibe with the best. And they’re going to want to make sure that you are fully educated on what’s going on. So that you’re not sitting here in the dark going well what does this mean? And why am I getting that test and why? You know what is… you know, that kind of thing. So, any doctor that proves you that doesn’t listen to you that doesn’t explain things that doesn’t, you know, whatever, doesn’t talk about side effects. That’s the other thing. If you’re seeing a psychiatrist and you’re getting psych meds, make sure they tell you about the side effects. So here’s one thing that drives me crazy. A lot of times psych meds have off label uses and so Seroquel is one of them and one of the side effects of Seoquel is Tardive dyskinesia. Tardive dyskinesia is the involuntary grimacing or the muscle jerking. And it can be permanent. And they use it for sleep. And I’m just like, Oh, my God, no, with a side of no and an extra helping of what the actual are you thinking? So make sure that if you’re getting medication of any kind, you thoroughly talk it over with your doctor about side effects. And if you get home, and then you look up side effects, and they have not discussed this with you? Fire their hind end, I’m not even kidding. You fire them. If they’re not compassionate, if they don’t listen, if they poopoo you fire them, I wish to God Terry had done that. Because if she had done that, in the beginning, she would still be with us. So basically, this is about taking your power back. And one of the ways that abusers make us relinquish power is they adopt a I know you better than you know, yourself attitude.

Kris Godinez  05:57

So now we’re going to slide into what we’re talking about today, power and control. So one of the ways that oh, and I forgot to say thank you to Susanna Quintana since Susanna is amazing, she did so awesome with the online webinar that we had, and I cannot thank her enough. So if you’re looking for a good life coach, after you’ve left abuse, she is phenomenal because she can walk you through how to deal with the crazy emails and things like that, and how to deal with the ex, once you’ve gone, which is fabulous. And anyway, and she’s just amazing. She has a book called you’re still that girl. So please go read it because it’s awesome.

So anyway, going back to the power and control, one of the things that abusers do is that they try to make us think that they know us better than we know ourselves. And this goes for medical professionals. This goes for psychiatrists, this goes for nurses, doctors, whatever. So, abusers again use what’s the word I’m looking for? They adopt this attitude of I’m over you you’re one down you don’t know yourself, I know you bore more than you know yourself. That is so not true. That is so not true. You know you better than anybody, and what do abusers love to do? They love to tell you absolute lies about who you are. That that is one of their favorite things to do. Well, you’re this and you’re that and you, you, you, you guns and I’ll give you three guesses who they’re really talking about. They are truly talking about themselves. But because of family of origin, if we were raised in a narcissistic family or an abusive family or neglectful family, or alcoholism or drug use or whatever, and we’ve been codependent, we’ve been a caretaker, and we’re looking for those people pleasing things, we will believe them, because we love them. And because, you know, we trust them when we shouldn’t, but we don’t know that yet. So they will say things in the devalue in the discard phase that are just absolutely heinous. And are really about them. Remember, if somebody’s got two fingers pointed out doing the you, you, guns, they got six fingers pointed back at them, they are talking about themselves, they are not talking about you, they are projecting all of their stuff on to you. So basically, when they do the whole, you know, you’re incompetent, you’re awful, you’re that you, you, you know, you’re a bad listener, you’re your bla bla bla bla, you know, the whole thing. They’re talking about themselves, they really truly are, they are not talking about you. And they will say whatever they think they need to, to keep you second guessing yourself. And that is why you’ve really got to stop second guessing yourself.

So it is insanely difficult to heal from the power and the control games that an abuser pulls when you’re still in the relationship. It is much easier to start healing when you’re gone from it. So remember, last week, I talked about why it’s so insanely hard to heal from all of this. So what they do is they are constantly undermining your sense of self. They are constantly undermining who you are and they’re constantly undermining your certainty. They want you to not trust your gut because your gut is literally screaming at you the entire time you’re with them. It’s kind of like there’s something wrong here. And then because of our training because of our grooming from our family of origin, we go up shut up, gut I’m not listening to you. You know, I want to believe that there are person, I want to believe that they do have my best interests at heart. I want to believe that they are here for me and they’re not. They’re not in extrapolating that back to the doctors and stuff, doctors, if they’re a narcissist, they’re not there for your best interest. If something feels off, fire them get a different doctor, I swear to God, I can’t. It’s because Terri’s has been on my mind a lot recently, because it’s been the anniversary of her death. And so it’s like, what, she could still be here, if, you know, she had listened to her gut. So, um, so they love to pretend to be the expert. And if you’ll ever notice, narcissists are experts in literally everything. Not once not ever do they say, Oh, I don’t know the answer that let’s let me go look it up.

Kris Godinez  10:46

You know, it’s like, they immediately adopt this attitude of, Oh, I know the answer. I know the answer to everything. I’m an expert in everything. I’m you know, whatever. So you want to be really careful of anybody who professes to know literally everything. When somebody gives me a question, I really don’t know the answer to it. I’m like, Whoa, I don’t know that answer. Let me go research. And I’ll get back to you on Wednesday. So you know, but narcissists can’t do that. Because remember, they are 110% of all ego is there is no there. It’s all ego. And when it’s all ego, they have to be seen, because remember, it’s about being seen, it’s what other people think it’s other esteem, not self esteem for them, they have to be seen as the expert, one up perfect, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So what they do is, they get together with their target of abuse, usually either a plain old normal person who has empathy, or they get together with somebody who’s really sensitive, empathic, the whole thing, and they start whittling away at the self esteem, they start whittling away at who the person knew they were, before they got together with the abuser. So they’re watching. They’re watching every single thing that we do every single thing that we say they’re watching everything. And as soon as they figure out what makes us, that’s when they start I don’t like that, oh, you’re not this, oh, well, you’re this, oh, we’ll get it down to the desert, I did all of this. I know you better than you know, yourself, oh my god. If anybody ever says that to you run, do not walk to the nearest exit, swear to God, run, do not walk to the nearest exit. No, you know you better than anybody else. You know, you may need some help with things like trauma, but you know what you’re feeling because narcissists do not feel.

So one of the ways they take away our personal agency is to start crumbling, the self esteem, whatever self esteem is there, in whatever certainty we have. So one of the ways to heal from that kind of abuse when we get out of it, because again, if you’re still in the abuse, if the person is still abusing you, if they’re still putting you down, if they’re still harming you, and lying to you, and rewriting history and gaslighting and everything, it is so hard to maintain who you are, because they’re constantly undermining it. So when you get out of an abusive relationship, I kid you not get with a good trauma therapist, if you cannot afford a trauma therapist, look into things like Catholic Charities, Catholic Charities, at least here in Arizona, does offer free counseling for domestic violence victims or targets of intimate partner abuse. So you know, look into things like that, look at Jewish Family Services, you know, look at colleges, universities, see if they have some sort of practicum, where they need people to practice on you would be with somebody who is a master’s level practitioner that’s being monitored by a licensed professional. But there are things like that. So, you know, look into that, because sometimes I have people writing and going, I can’t afford it, and I totally hear you. So try to find free counseling through one of the charities and or one of the domestic violence shelters, sometimes they’ll offer things like that. The other thing you can do is you can look up services in your area to start working on this stuff. So you want to get with a trauma therapist because you’ve got to get their voice out of your head. Because what ends up happening is we come out of that abusive relationship, our power is gone. Our certainty is toast. We don’t know who we are. We literally are like, I do I like macaroni and cheese. I don’t even know.

Kris Godinez  14:47

I was never allowed to order I was never allowed to, you know, vocalize what I wanted or what I needed. And if I did, I was told no, I was wrong. You know, do you see where I’m going with that? They literally do that and they do everything they can to make us doubt and to make us question. So for example, if we get, like a strong opinion about something they’ll come out and be like, but do you really think that? Really do you really know you don’t really think that they do, I swear to God, that is what they do. It’s like, if you don’t agree with them, they do one of two things. They either try to manipulate you into agreeing with them, or seeing, you know, or agreeing with whatever their worldview is, or whether they like neck or cheese or whatever. Or they get angry that you don’t have the exact same opinion they do. And they use bullying and intimidation, to force you to change your mind. And what does that do that erodes the sense of self because you’ve learned that if you stand up for yourself, you’re going to get bullied, you’re going to get intimidated, you’re going to get screamed at, you’re going to get, you know, whatever. So when you leave an abusive relationship, all of the techniques that they’ve used all the gaslighting, all the lying, all the rewriting history, all of the intimidation, all of the anger, all of the raging, that is all been used to force you into compliance. There’s a great song by Oh, is it Demi Lovato? I think it’s called Freak. And she talks about abuse. And I was just like, oh, girl, yeah, there’s another song. by Muse. I think it’s called compliance. But anyway, it’s just, it’s talking about abuse is talking about brainwashing. It’s talking about, you know, how they make us lose ourselves. So getting out of an abusive relationship, all of this stuff that they used to get power and control because remember, it’s all about power and control. There is no love in this equation. They do not love. They do not love manipulating somebody that’s not love screaming at somebody raging, that’s not love lying to them about who they are. That’s not love, you know, trying to force them to change their mind about something that’s really, you know, like a boundary thing. That’s not love. That’s not love. They are all about power control. That’s what they get off on. That’s what they enjoy.

So when we leave, it’s really important to get with a good trauma therapist. At the very least get the self esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, get your badass by Jensen Sincero, get badass habits also by Jensen Sincero. And start working on that re building of who you are and knowing who you are. So it’s really important when you leave, you’ve got to punt that voice in your head. And oftentimes people will tell me, oh, you know, I don’t, it’s not okay for me to be happy. It’s not okay for me to laugh. It’s not okay for me to do this are okay for me to do that? Because, you know, my abuser would come unglued. And I’m like, okay, stop, take a deep breath. You need to write the abuser and burn it a go pound sand letter with everything that they told you. You were that wasn’t true. Everything they told you you couldn’t do or that you weren’t, you know, this, you know, they’ll say horrible things. Like, they’ll attack your physicality, they’ll attack your sexuality, they’ll attack your Schumer, they’ll attack anything that makes you you. They want you to give it up because they don’t have it and how dare you do. So when you leave right to go pound letter to end just write out everything they did at the very, very end of it, you’re going to take your power back from them, dear abuser, whoever that was, you know what I’m not believing. In other words, you said, you know, you said this, this, this, this and this, they were all lies. I am beautiful. I am smart. I am funny. I am kind I am, you know, whatever it is that they lied to you about, you know, the I Am. So that’s really important. And you basically say, I’m not listening to you anymore. You’re not in my life, I don’t need to believe you, because you’re a liar. Go pay on sand or whatever you need to say.

Kris Godinez  19:04

I mean, like I said, I’ve had some people write 27 pages, very tiny little letters, telling them to go pound sand. So whatever you need to do, but get it out of your head, get it onto paper, trot it out to the barbecue, read it out loud once like a declaration of independence and burn it. So this is a way to kind of take your power back. And one of the ways that we feel unempowered is that there is no closure with these Jack wagons. There’s just not and there’s not ever going to be because they, in their heads, have never done a wrong thing ever in their lives, like ever. And they’re never going to take responsibility for what they’ve done. Ever. They’re just, it’s not like you’re going to get a sincere apology from them. What you will get is a Hoover apology.

So the Hoover apology is another way of eroding our sense of self because then that little kid inside of us goes “They’re apologizing so they can change!” No! Incorrect response! No, they cannot change and a fake apology is what they do. They can’t do a sincere apology because a sincere apology requires changed behavior. So what they’ll do is do the whole I’m sorry, you, I’m sorry, but I’m sorry, you made me. I’m sorry. You know, the moon was full, I mean, some BS excuse as to why they abused you. And if you’re not careful, and you have not started working on self esteem and started working on that inner child, that inner child is going to go, but they’re apologizing, okay, words mean nothing. Show me. Show me. You know, seriously. It’s like, Ah, nope, sorry. Thank you. No. So a sincere apology is Oh, my God, I hurt you. I own it. That was not my intention. I am horrified that I did that. mortified that I did that. What can I do to make amends? What do you need? And it will never happen again. And then it never freakin happens again. Okay. With an abuser. They’re like, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. But I’m sorry. You I’m sorry. You made me. I’m sorry. The moon was full. I’m sorry. You know, some BS excuse. So real people don’t make excuses. They just don’t it. Yes, I hurt you. And I don’t get to tell you that I didn’t hurt you. Did you hear what I just said? I hurt you. I don’t get to tell you. I didn’t hurt you. But boy, Howdy do they love to tell you that they didn’t hurt you? Yeah, so don’t believe the apologies don’t fall for that when they show you who they are. And they give you an insincere apology. The I’m sorry, but I’m sorry, you and they start telling you that they didn’t hurt you. And you don’t get to feel what you’re feeling. Run, do not walk to the nearest exit. This is another way to take power and control away from you. Because that’s what they are all about. They are nothing but about power and control. Like I said, there is no love in there. People who love somebody, don’t try to tell them that they don’t get to feel the way they feel.

How many times have we been invalidated by our abuser with the abuser saying, Oh, you’re so sensitive. What? Yeah, because I have an actual soul demon. You know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s just I’m sorry, that just that just gets me I’m just like, Oh, hell no, you know. So it’s like, yeah, they do that. It’s like they make fun of us for the very thing that attracted them to us in the first place, because they’ve realized they cannot possess it. So if they cannot possess it, guess what they’re going to try to do. Destroy it. They want us dead, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, sexually, and otherwise, they do. So taking your power back means when you leave the relationship, you get back into relationship with who you are. What did you used to like to do before you got with the abuser? What did you know about yourself before you got with the abuser? What of their BS lies did you fall for and why? Who did that mimic? Were they mimicking mom? Were they mimicking dad? Was it grandparents? Was it? What was going on? Why did the inner child fall for that? So you want to start working on all of this stuff. So inner child workbook, either by Katherine Taylor or Luccia Capachione You want to get the disease to please by Harriet Breaker to work on a people pleasing stuff. So you’re not falling for that

Kris Godinez  23:29

Oh, I need to please them. Oh, I need to please. No, you don’t? You absolutely do not. And you are under no obligation to have a relationship with anybody seriously, if they are abusive if you don’t want to be around them.

So the question to ask yourself is another way to take your power back if you’re dealing with a really manipulative, abusive family, family of origin, right? And they’re like, Oh, you have to be around your mom and dad or you have to be around your brother or sister or you have to be around the grandparents. Okay, take a deep breath. If you were not related to these bozos, would you have literally anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly, you are under no obligation to have a relationship with anybody. You’re not! I don’t care if they’re family and of course then people start throwing the whole Honor thy mother and father, okay, I’m sorry. But if somebody has an abusive POS, and they have been abusing and abusing and abusing, I cannot imagine a loving God being okay with forcing that kid to go back to that mom and dad. Do you see where I’m going with that? And in fact, in the Bible, the very next line after that whole Honor thy mother and father is parents do not bring your children to anger. So yeah, it’s a two way street, even in the Bible. So if somebody throws that at you, they’re showing you who they are. They’re flying monkeys Why in the world would somebody want you to go be in a relationship with somebody you’ve already explained to them is abusive? Right? So remember, flying monkeys are all about drama. They’re all about chaos. They’re all about drama, and they are doing things at the behest of the abusers. Don’t hand your power over to one of them, either you have agency, you can say no.

And that’s why it’s so important to start working on boundaries. And that protection of No, no is a wall no is like, Ah, this is a no, this is a boundary, write out your list of deal breakers, but stick to it. I can’t tell you the number of times I have people write their list of deal breakers, but they’re still not quite there yet. The inner child is still not on board with completely severing ties. And so it will be like, Oh, well, but it wasn’t that bad. What, uh, well, but other people have it worse. This is not a competition people. This is not a competition. Your experience is your experience. And if your experience was abusive, neglectful, harmful, hurtful, taking your power away and making you feel less than, then guess what, they’re abusive, and you need to stay the hell away from them, period. And that’s another way to take your power back is going no contact and no contact means absolutely no contact when you’ve decided to go no contact with somebody you do not tell them Oh, I’m going no contact. Why? Because you’re handing your power over to them. Remember, narcissists love to pump for information. You know, it’s like, oh, what’s going on? What’s going on? What’s going on? I need to know what’s going on. And if you tell them Well, I’m going no contact with you in the mistaken idea… this is an inner child thing, that you’re somehow going to get them to change or to suddenly wake up or have a V eight moment or whatever, no, all you’re doing is giving them fuel for the fire. And what they will do is they will gather the troops, they will get the flying monkeys. And they’ll start bugging you like nobody’s business, when you go no contact, you quietly go, no contact, blocked them on everything have nothing to do with them. If Flying Monkeys start going, why aren’t you talking to them, bla bla bla bla, you know, judge who the flying monkey is some of them are quite obvious.

Kris Godinez  27:25

Some of them are covert. So remember, flying monkeys are all about taking your power away from you, too, because they’re one of two things. They’re either ignorant. They don’t understand abuse, in which case you can educate them. And if they, you know, come around and realize what they’re doing and stop communicating with the abuser, great. But if they’re not, then they’re minor narcissists themselves usually covert, and they will try to continue the drama going, because it’s the greatest show on earth, and they will sit back with popcorn and just watch the sparks. So you know, be careful with that.

So, I think the thing I’m trying to impress upon everyone is that you have got power you do! Your abuser’s objective is to make you think you don’t, you do. And one of the greatest powers we have is getting back in touch with what we know to be true about ourselves, what is our true nature, and that sometimes takes a trauma therapist, especially if the lying has been going on for years and years and years. Because the internal critic is going to be you know, yammering at us and lying to us, too, if that makes sense. So it’s getting back to the self-esteem, getting back to recognizing you have worth, you have value, you are the most expert person on you there is on the face of the planet, the abuser is not so it’s it’s really separating out from what they said and realizing that all of the nasty horrible things that they said during the devalue in the discard phase was really about them. Getting your self-esteem back having incredibly strong boundaries. That is always to take your power back.

Writing and burning letters, getting it out of your head getting it onto paper and burning it don’t send it to them guys. I cannot stress this enough people keep going. But but but it’ll feel good. If I send it to them. Nope. All you’re going to do is give them fuel for their fire and that will start an exchange of nastiness and it won’t ever stop. Remember, they cannot stand being ignored. That’s why no contact is such a wonderful thing because it’s kind of like you don’t have to deal with them. And they’re set. They’re stuck stewing in their own petard you know what I’m saying? So, they don’t know They have no way to get to you. If you’ve gone no contact and you’ve blocked them. They get to deal with their own nastiness. And they will go find another target guarantee. At some point in time, I do want to talk, probably not this coming month, but probably next month, I want to talk about the guilt a lot of survivors have of you know, do I contact the new supply? Do I not contact and so, we’re going to talk about that, not this month, but in October, I think that would be a really good one because several people have asked me about that.

So basically, what I want to impress upon you is their whole mission is to steal your identity, they want to steal who you are, they want to steal your love, your joy, your joie de vie, your happiness, your laughter, your you know, your ability to feel, they want to take that from you. And when they realize they can’t, then they start damning you for it. You know, you laugh too much. You’re too happy. You’re too… there’s no such thing, guys. No such thing. Hmm. Perception is everything. If somebody’s being sensitive about something, then they’re being sensitive about something for a reason. So you know, they can’t, they try to tell you, Oh, well, you don’t get to be angry at me for abusing you. You don’t get to feel what you’re feeling because I’ve abused you. You run, do not walk to the nearest exit. When you leave the abuse, taking your power back means remembering who you are writing out all of the abuse and burning it, letting it go, have no further contact with them. Especially if you have a restraining order. Do not contact them do not, do not, do not it’s going to backfire on you. So, taking yourself back. It’s like, No, I get to love me, I get to remember who I am, I get to have self-esteem,

Kris Godinez  31:48

I get to realize my own worth, I get to realize my own value, I get to realize that I am a good person. And I do enjoy people in the you know, I can trust people once I start trusting my gut. So that’s why getting with a trauma therapist is hugely important so that you can get back to remembering who you are. Work on the self esteem, work on trusting your gut, because these are the ones that when you see abuse, they’ll deny it. And they’ll say oh, no, you don’t see the pink elephant taking a crap in the corner of the living room. Oh, no, that pink elephant is not there. And if you continue to say you see the pink elephant, especially in a fake, abusive, families of origin, they’ll beat it out of you. You don’t see it, you know, and they’ll hit you. That’s what my family did. So yeah, so you want to get back into trusting your gut, you want to get back into remembering what made you happy. What did make you happy, take your power back. And every time the abuser in your head, tries to take it away. Write a go pound sand letter to them, and burn it. And make sure that you are starting to trust you, you know you more than anybody else on the face of this planet. Trust your gut, listen to your gut, take your power back. And if you can have some sense of humor about it, like you know if one of those nasty thoughts pops up, and it was like, Oh, well, you’re ugly, or you’re this or you’re that or you’re incompetent, blah, blah, laugh at it. Wow, do you really that’s the best you got to go pound sand. Goodbye. Bye. Now, do you see where I’m going with that? Because devil runs for the laughter and abusers can’t stand it when we don’t take them seriously. So I’m not saying you do that to their face. I’m saying you do it to the voice in your head. So because they want us to believe them long after they’re gone. So don’t believe them. Don’t, don’t do it. If you were not related to them. If you didn’t have them in your life right now, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. You don’t have to be peer pressured into seeing family or seeing friends or staying at a job or anything else you can leave you can tell them no you can draw boundaries. You can go do something else. You don’t have to go to the family reunion. You don’t!

So anyway, I hope that kind of covered the power and control that’s all they want. There’s no love in there. So but what they do to us is they erode who we are and it’s really important to get back to who are we what do we love? What do we enjoy? What did we used to love etc. etc. etc. so Self- Ssteem Workbook Glenn Schiraldi, You’re a Badass Jen Sincero, Badass Habits Jen Sincero. The Disease to Please Harriet Braiker, CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker. All of those books are going to help if you can get with a good trauma therapist. If you cannot afford it. Start working on the books. Absolutely. All right, let’s dive into the questions. I’m going to have to make this bigger because these contacts are not meant for reading small print.

Okay, what’s a good way to deal with a narcissist manager? At work, Ooh, okay, it kind of depends. It depends on how they’re how they’re behaving. So, in some situations when I’ve had managers this is back in the day when I was getting my LAC when I had managers that were obviously narcissists, if you can you flatter them, you know, brown nose, I guess, you know, that kind of thing. If however, they’re the kind of narcissist manager, where they are, what’s the word I’m looking for abusive, looking for a scapegoat, etc., etc., etc., you really have a lot fewer options. So, document, document everything and look to get a different manager if you can, or get out of that job, if you can. The other way is, you know, just realize that there are scapegoating you, it’s very unlikely that they’re going to scapegoat somebody else, they found the perfect target, right? So once they kind of zero in on somebody to scapegoat, they’re usually not going to drop it, which is why I’m saying your only other option is to get out. So but if they’re the kind of narcissistic manager where you can just flatter them, and they soak it up, then okay, you just get through, you know what I’m saying. But if they’re the ones that are looking for a target, and you’re it, it’s unlikely that they’ll stop is what I’m trying to say. And they will encourage other people to pick on you as well. So that’s the danger of that. So if that’s the situation, get out, save yourself, get out, find a different job, get into a different division, document everything you know, and that’s, that’s your best option. So I know it sucks, it sucks.

Kris Godinez  36:42

And in my younger years, there were a few times where I had to quit the job because they were just nasty and vicious and looking for somebody to scream at. And I’m just like, Ah, nope, sorry. I got plenty of that from my dad. I don’t need it from you. So yeah, there that is okay.

Um, does the narcs need for power and control over other people make them helpless and depending on others, my late narc mother was overly dependent on others while trying to control others. Well, in a way. Yeah. Because remember, narcissists can’t stand being alone. They can’t I mean, how quickly do they jump into another relationship like that? Because they need another supply, right? So in that sense, they need sacrificial lambs I think is the best way to put it. So they’re not codependent in the way you’re thinking though. So they remember they don’t feel, they don’t love. They don’t feel they don’t feel the emotions the way you and I do. What they are looking for is supply. And people mean no more to them than this pen, seriously. And once the pen is out of ink, what do they do? They toss it because it has no more use to them. So when they’re looking for the next supply next supply and supply next supply, it’s not because they love them. It’s not because they want them to approve of them. It’s because they need supply and supply to them is the ego supply so the ego supply is people paying attention to them, especially if they’re the covert, narcissist the victim right? They want the sympathy. They want the attention. They want this they want that. If it’s an overt NARC, they need somebody telling them how great they are all the time. If it’s a communal narcissist, they need followers, that’s their big that’s where they get their supply from is having all of these followers. So somatic narcissists need to be complimented on their bodies all the time. So it’s not it’s not what you’re thinking as far as codependency is concerned, it is more a supply chain issue, if you will. They’re looking for the next supply. They’re looking for the next person that they can use up and toss you know, so yeah, in a way, yes, but not in the way that you’re thinking.

Are they helpless? Well, if they’re covert, and that kind of sounds like what you’re talking about. Remember, covert narcissists are the ultimate martyr. Oh my god. Seriously, it’s like with my dad, I’m like, dude, just fracking take yourself off the cross. You’re not Jesus Christ. You know what I’m saying? So, you know, he would you know, oh, you know, my family. You know, what was his favorite always favorite saying was from King Lear. Sharper than the serpent’s tooth. How sharper than the serpent’s tooth is that of an ungrateful child and he used to quote that all the damn time because he kept feeling like we were ungrateful. sitting here going, Ah, I’m supposed to be grateful for you hitting me every five seconds. Go pound sand, you know? So that was his favorite quote, and he was a total murderer. And so you know, victim victim victim, he would tell everybody in their dog how horrible his kids were. Unless of course we made him look good. Unless of course we may read the newspapers in which case then, oh, you know, my daughter’s just the best damn he was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. I’m not even kidding. Yeah. So they play the victim, they play the martyr they play the, you know, you never write you never cool you might hear all by myself How dare you leave me alone? You know that don’t think because they’re looking for the sympathy that’s narcissistic supply to them. So playing helpless is one of their games, it’s learned helplessness because they’ve learned which snap my fingers they’ve learned that if they play helpless that people will come and help them. Right. So it’s really important stop series I’m not talking to you go away. It’s really important to recognize that that’s the covert narcissist game is to oh, I you know, I just need this, oh, I can’t do this. Oh, my, I don’t understand the Internet. You can’t, you know, I can’t do it myself. You need to do it for me. And I mean, I’m not great with technology, but show me how to do it. And I can do it on my own. But with a covert narcissist, it’s like, I can’t do it, do it, you need to do it for me.

Kris Godinez  41:16

That always drove me crazy, because it was kind of like you are perfectly capable of learning how to do this. So they play the victim. They want the attention. They’re not really helpless. But they sure as hell play it. I mean, they seriously they deserve an Academy Award for the acting that they do. As far as the helplessness is concerned. Because really, when the rubber meets the road, they can do it themselves. But if they think they can get some narcissistic supply off of it, oh, I’m just this innocent little old lady who just you know, can’t take care of myself or little man or whatever. Yeah, no. So that, that is kind of that. Yeah, they do do that. But it’s not helpless and dependent. In the way you’re thinking. It’s not… it’s intentional. It’s absolutely intentional.

Okay, do narcs need to need the power and control over others? Because they know they have no control over their own lives. Dign, ding, ding, ding! Yes. So when, in a way, so remember, they’re not self aware there. They are not self aware. So Narcissus? Anybody, anybody who’s trying to control somebody else. Let me just here’s a clue to watch for somebody who’s incredibly controlling and wanting to control everybody else, I can guarantee you there is chaos going on inside absolute chaos. The thoughts are not nice. There’s no love, no compassion, no kindness, no peace. No, you know, none of that. So the more out of control a person is, the more they seek to control everything around them seriously. So it’s really, really important to pay attention to that. And that, unfortunately, is a learned behavior that then the children of narcissists get, oh, well, if I can control everything that I’m safe. No, the only person you need to be controlling, is you. That’s it. But we learn that from watching. So you know, don’t make yourself wrong. If you’re finding that happening. That’s a component of anxiety. If I can control this, if I can control that person, if I can do it, then I’m say, but it’s a learned behavior. And it’s not helpful. So the only person you can control is you and your thoughts. And that’s it. We are on a rock hurtling through space, with a huge giant fireball that we spin around, and you really think we have control over anything? No. So let it go. Let it go. Let it go. But yes, they the more out of control a person is the more they attempt to be manipulative and controlling and this that and everything because then they’re focused outwards. Because remember, everything about narcissism is focused outwards. Healthy thoughts are focused inwards, inner stuff, healthy life. Self esteem, not other esteem. So but narcissists can’t do that. Because if they get quiet, it’s chaos in there. It’s nastiness, you know, all that nastiness that they’re spewing out over everybody else that’s going on in their head all the time. And they got to find an outlet because they cannot stand it. Really what if they ever really thought about it, which they don’t, but if they ever thought about it, that’s why they’re doing it because they’re trying to get rid of it. That’s why they project because they’re trying to accuse you of the very thing that they’re doing because they can’t accept that they’re doing it. That’s projection. Um, okay. How are we doing? Okay?

Is the abuse the narcissist, wait, is the abuse the narcissist does an addiction. It seems they need to do more and more of it. Well, yeah. They’re crazy it most narcissists have some form of addiction going on usually porn. They’re usually addicted to porn, they’ve usually got a gambling habit of some sort. Or they’re addicted to having multiple affairs, because you know, can I get away with it? You know, that kind of thing? Um, they’re addicted to something. They’re addicted to sex, they’re addicted to porn, they’re addicted to affairs, they’re addicted to drugs, they’re addicted to alcohol, they’re addicted to you know, whatever. And I’m sorry, I lost the question. Yes.

Kris Godinez  45:35

Is it an addiction? Yes. And this is why. And remember, with an addiction, it takes more and more and more of whatever that action or drug or alcohol is in order to get the same effect. So with an abuser, when the target of abuse leaves, right, they go away, they go, no contact, well, then the abuser starts hoovering and the target of abuse comes back. The love bombing phase, every single time the target of abuse comes back gets shorter and shorter and shorter, and the devalue in the discard gets longer and longer and longer. The amount of emotional and physical violence also gets increased every single time because a couple of reasons one, they’re punishing you for leaving number one. Number two, they’re sadists remember when we’re when we’re dealing with a dark triad so the narcissist the psychopath and the Machiavellian so Machiavellian is control freak psychopath is rules don’t apply to me. I can do whatever I want. Narcissist is all about them. They’re sadistic, they enjoy inflicting pain, emotional pain, physical pain didn’t matter. My dad loved to hit us. Why? Because he got off on it. You could tell he had that little smirk. You know, when he landed a particularly nasty emotional Barb, he got that little smirk. He enjoyed it. So, he was a sadist, absolutefreakinlutely. So, they enjoy it. And so they keep pushing the envelope. And it takes more and more and more and more just like with a porn addiction, and it takes more and more and more and more for them to get the same level of enjoyment. So same thing with an alcohol addiction. Same thing with a drug addiction, same thing. You name the addiction takes more and more and more and more. So are they addicted to the to doing abuse? Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. Will they ever admit that? No. Because they don’t change, and they don’t get better. Let me just be clear about that. So yeah, for them it’s a kind of an addiction. Yeah. But it’s also intentional. They enjoy it. They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop. They’re absolutely not going to stop. And does it get worse? Yeah, it does. And I think a fallacy that a lot of survivors have is that when the abuser when they’re finally done with the abuser, like they’ve they’re like, Okay, I get it, they’re not changing. I’m leaving, you know, they leave for good and the abuser immediately gets for somebody else. The target of abuse is left going. Wait, so they’re having this wonderful life with this new person. Well, they’re doing the same thing with them that they did with you give it time, it takes time. And eventually the cycle will start. But you don’t need to be around to watch it. You really don’t stay the hell away. No Contact etc.

Okay, let’s see. Um, okay, what do you say to a guy who makes plans with you, but doesn’t follow through? I’m done. Don’t call me.

Kris Godinez  48:47

So there’s a couple of things that are going on in society that just, I just, I can’t even, so ghosting is one of them. I’ve never… That to me is a coward’s way out. If you don’t want to go on a second date, or you don’t want to talk to somebody, you end it, you know, this isn’t working. And thank you very much. And we’re done. The only time you would ghost is if you’re ghosting, say for example, an abuser, you know, that’s when you would be like okay, and no contact and we’re done. You know, that kind of thing. But if somebody makes plans with you, and they never follow through, that’s rude. That’s rude! Manners maketh the human being. Seriously, manners, manners. If you’re going to plan something with somebody and you never follow through. What does that say? Well, that says that you’re not important enough for them to follow through. And at that point, you’ve got to recognize your own worth and just be like, I’m no longer wasting my time with this person. No, thank you. No, thank you. I had a friend when I was in college. And I realized after we graduated that everything had to be on her terms. And it always had to have a purpose. And it was always like, you know, helping her do stuff or doing her hair. or, you know, it wasn’t a friendship and I realized I’m being used, you know, and you know, we would make plans and she would cancel or she would, you know, no want to do it because it wasn’t something she was interested in. And so I finally confronted her because that’s who I am. I just, you know, give people every opportunity to behave, and when they don’t, then I’m like, Okay, and so, um, you know, I confronted her and I said, Look, you know, this, you never, you never want to follow through on plans, especially if it’s something you’re not interested in. I’ve done plenty of things that you’re interested in that I’m not, you’re always wanting to use my services as a hairdresser, or have me help you with the house or whatever. It’s not reciprocated, you know, what’s going on, you know, this is not this is not working for me, this is not a friendship, I feel used. And word salad ensued, like, word salad ensued. And I was like, okay, all right. And this like I said, this isn’t like in my early 20s. So, at that point, I just was like, okay, and we’re done. And see, you know, seriously because it was like oh, that’s not a friendship a friendship is given take a friendship is you enjoy the person’s company, you go do things they like, you go do things, you know, you do things that vice versa, you know what I’m saying? You do things they like they do things you like, you know, you talk and you converse, and you emote, and you turn the friendship dance here, you know? So, um, yeah, you do you do things together that you enjoy both of you, you know, you because like, for example, Lynne and I, it’s like, sometimes she wants to go see the period dramas and I’m just kind of like, Okay, I’ll go with her. But then I’ll drag her to one of my, you know, like, Action Adventure things like we just saw a bullet train. Oh, my God, that was so funny. I was hysterical. I loved it. I did. The critics hated it, but I loved so anyway. Um, so yeah, you know, you do you cuz you like the person and you want to hang out with them. So you know what I’m saying? So yeah, if somebody doesn’t follow through, that’s basically telling you everything, you need to know that they’re not. They don’t value you. You need to value yourself. And if somebody is wasting your time, and not following through, or always wanting to do what they want to do, but not doing what you want to do, you know, he needs to be back and forth, guys, it needs to be a give and take, then you need to probably cut ties and in that friendship, so. So there that is okay, let’s see here.

Do abusers go to therapy? And do they get better? Oh, hell no. They don’t get better. I’m going to answer that last half first. No, they don’t get better. Do they go to therapy only if they can manipulate the therapist. So generally, what they’ll do is they’ll pick a therapist, either brand new out of school doesn’t know anything about personality disorders, or narcissistic abuse or domestic violence or intimate partner violence or anything like that. Or they’ll find a therapist that is, oh, what is the term I’m looking for? The ones who don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings that never call them out on anything? Humanists? That’s what it is. Humanists. So oh, we don’t use labels. Oh, we don’t? Oh, no, you know, they’re just misunderstood. God, seriously, don’t make me puke. So yeah, they’ll go to therapy, if they can find somebody that’s either a humanist therapist, or that is fresh out of school doesn’t understand any of this stuff. And generally, they’ll go one to three times. And as soon as the therapist goes, therapist goes, and where’s your responsibility in this?

Kris Godinez  53:45

That’s when they’re like, you’re incompetent, you’re this, you’re that and they’re out. So, um, don’t ever don’t ever go to couples counseling with an abuser, don’t do it. They may be sitting there telling you, oh, I’m going to change. You know, baby, I promise you, it’ll be different this time. It’ll be different. I will change, things will be better. They’ve shown you who they are. healthy, normal people do not freakin abuse. They don’t not verbally, not physically, not mentally, not emotionally, not sexually, not on any level. So if they’ve been abusive, and you’re threatening to leave, and now suddenly they want to do counseling when you’ve been begging them for like years before to go and they wouldn’t do it because mostly they don’t want to go. Usually what they do is when therapy is first brought up, I’m not going to therapist therapists are just crackpots. They don’t know what they’re talking about! You want to know what the real reason is? They’re afraid that I’m going to see them. That’s exactly what they’re afraid of. Because they don’t want the therapist to figure out their game. And they don’t want a good therapist to be like, yeah, we’re not doing couples therapy. We’ll do individual, you know, because you cannot do couples therapy with an abuser. What they will do is they will take whatever you’ve said in therapy. And then as soon as the session is over, as soon as the session is over, out in the parking lot in the car, that why did you say that?  And they’ll use it to abuse you. And to shut you up, they’re going to use the intimidation and the anger and the bullying to shut you up. Because they don’t want people to know what their game is. They don’t want to be found out. That’s why they hate therapists, because a good therapist will recognize one fairly quickly.

So um, do they go to therapy? Yeah, when their back is against the wall, when there’s a court ordered therapy demanded of them, for example, anger management, or they’ve been court mandated to go get therapy by the courts, or the target of abuse has finally had enough and says, That’s it, I’m out of here unless you go get help. And it looks like they’re leaving, and then they’ll go to a therapist, but as soon as the therapist is on to them, like so for example, every once in a while one will slip through my interrogation that I give when I first talked interrogation, it’s not really interrogation. But I ask questions, you know, like, why are you coming in what’s going on? Let me make sure I’m a good fit for you. And I tell them how I do therapy and things like that. So um, they’ll come in, and they’ll try to make it all about the partner, and I have to stop them and go, your partner’s not here. This is not couples therapy. This is your therapy, we need to be working on you. And oh, boy, you should see them do the dance to try to not talk about themselves or talk about their family of origin. Because they know as soon as I say that I’m not and they’ll try it again. Next session, they’ll try to talk about this. Now I know that person is not session with us. This is not couples therapy. This is about you. Let’s work on this right. And they’ll make an appointment for the third session, but they never show up. So yeah, so basically, they’ll say that they go to therapy, and they’ll try to find a therapist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. That doesn’t know narcissistic abuse, it doesn’t understand narcissistic abuse, etc., etc., etc. They’ll go for one to three times, and then they stop because they know better than everybody else. They’re an expert. So they think and they think therapists are stupid, because that’s the story they tell themselves because they don’t want to be seen. So no, they do not change. Leopard does not change its spots, they do not ever change. They don’t get better. They don’t get healed. They don’t have an epiphany, the clouds do not part and the angels sing and they suddenly have remorse for every rotten thing they’ve ever done. It never happens guys, they do not change your best shot is to get the hell away from them. Go completely no contact. Get with a good therapist. Start working on self esteem and boundaries. Write your list of deal breakers and go live your best life. That is your best shot.

All right, guys. So you guys go have a great week. Take your power and control back. Don’t let anybody tell you what you’re feeling. You know what you’re feeling. Nobody else knows what you’re feeling because they’re not living up here. You’re living up there. So you trust your feelings. You trust your gut you trust what you know to be true for you. Don’t let somebody tell you who you are because that’s what narcissists love to do. Don’t let them go live your best life. All right, my love’s go have a great week and I will talk to you soon. Bye.

Kris Godinez  58:30

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.