Kris Godinez 00:02
Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.
I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.
Kris Godinez 01:00
Okay, there we go. All right, let’s dive into today’s topic, which happens to be energy vampires or otherwise known as psychic vampires. So, I know that sounds kind of woo woo and everything, but let’s just be clear Energy Vampires are narcissists. Usually, they are a Cluster B of some sort, either histrionic, borderline, or narcissist, or antisocial. So, they’re one of those. So, energy vampires are the ones where I don’t know if you guys have ever seen “What We Do In The Shadows”. If you have not watched the TV show, What We Do In The Shadows, you really should be watching the TV show What We Do In The Shadows. So it’s four vampires. Yeah, four vampires that live together in Staten Island. And it’s all about their nightly escapades and things like that. And one of the vampires is a psychic vampire or an energy vampire. And his name is Colin Robinson as Nadja calls him and Nadja’s one of the other vampires so she always calls him by his full name Colin Robinson. So anyway, he will walk into a room and literally he’ll just say one word, or he can just walk into the room and people keel over. Sound asleep.
So, an energy vampire Happy New Year guys,
Kris Godinez 02:15
an energy vampire is is a narcissist. Usually not always, they can be borderline, they can be antisocial, they can be you know, anybody on the Cluster B spectrum. So, what an energy vampire does is they walk into a room and they monopolize the conversation they either monopolize it with Okay, let’s let’s look at the different narcissistic stuff. And then I’ll go through the different cluster B’s. So, let’s let’s look at narcissism. So, they’re either going to be the overt narcissist, which is going to be like, life of the party, but has to be the center of attention. So, in other words, there can be people that are life of the party that are willing to give up the spotlight to allow someone else to shine. You know, so like, you know, a jam session, it’s like you’re done with your jam and passing it off to you, you know, that kind of thing. That’s cool. That’s fine. That’s there’s no problem with that. But a psychic vampire that is the life of the party that has to constantly steal the spotlight back. So, like they never allow anyone else to be the life of the party. They never allow anyone else to be happy or you know, getting attention or anything like that. So, they’re always stealing the spotlight back so that’s the overt version of a Energy Vampire. So, it’s like they never allow the attention to drift off of them whenever they’re in a social situation or a party or anything like that. The overt No, that was overt. Sorry. Did I did I say covert? I met overt. Those are the overt ones. Those are the ones that are life the party can’t handle having somebody else have the attention.
Covert ones are the ones who play the victim Poor me. I’m all alone. Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. I’m gonna go to the garden and eat big slimy hairy worms. Listen to my sob story. Oh, I just had this operation. Let me tell you all about it. Oh, my bowels. I’m not even kidding you. They do that. So, they’ll start talking about their bowels for some bizarre reason, you know, they’ll, they’ll start going through all the medical stuff. They’ll start, you know, oh, I had this ache and this pain and this surgery and, and this problem with my bowels and they literally will do that in a social situation, which the rest of the people are like, wait, what? You know, and, and because we are also groomed to not interrupt them or stop them or tell them it’s inappropriate. They keep going because it’s the, it’s the codependency. So, think of it this way. If they’re covert, they’re doing the victim thing. Okay. If their overt Life of the Party have to be the center of attention steals the attention back every time somebody else gets the mic, that kind of thing.
Okay, and then you’ve got the communal narcissist who will sit there and expound on their wokeness don’t even get me started, that just oh my god, they will the, so they’re the gurus, they’re, they’re the ones that will expound on their wokeness and talk about their, you know, whatever little cult that they have going and how awakened and aware they are and how you should join their cult, and all of that sort of fun stuff. So that is kind of what the different types of narcissists do.
Hermit, hermit kind of does the same thing. So, let’s, let’s look at borderline now. Okay, so borderlines down at the lower end of the spectrum, generally don’t do that. They’re usually more turned inwards and they’re more harmful to themselves when they start moving down the spectrum, okay, and they start getting to hermit, Queen and witch.
Okay, so there’s waif which is the quiet one that generally they turn on themselves, those you can work with, but when they start moving down the line get to the hermit, The Queen and The Witch.
Okay, so the hermit is akin to the covert, borderline or covert narcissist.
Kris Godinez 06:21
Not enough coffee in the world this morning. Um, so the hermit is akin to the covert narcissist. Okay, these two the hermit and the covert narcissist, love to play the victim, and love to talk about everything that’s going wrong in their life. This is wrong, that is wrong, everything’s wrong, you know, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and how horrible it all is. And they want you to collude with them. And honest to God, you listened to that for about less than five minutes, I would say a minute. And pretty soon you’re like, Oh my God, how do I how do I get away from them? Where’s the exit? Holy crap, how do I get out of here? You know, and we don’t want to say no to them. So, this is all going to be about boundaries. So okay, so the hermit and the covert are very similar.
Okay, then you move up to the Queen and the witch. So, the queen is the control freak. narcissists do this too. Usually overt ones, the obvious ones, the ones that are like, look at me, look at me, look at me. I’m so fabulous. Tell me how fabulous I am. And if you don’t tell me how fabulous you are, I’m going to turn on you, you know, or if somebody else takes the spotlight, I’m going to grab it back and you know, that kind of thing. So, the queen is a control freak, control, control, control, must control everyone in the room. So that is kind of similar to the overt narcissist, if that makes any sort of sense. Then you get the witch who is just a sadistic POS and just wants to hurt people. And so, they’ll be the ones that do the real snarky, you know, gossipy nasty, kind of like hit and run. screw you’s. You know what I’m saying? So, I’m sure you have. Have you ever been in a room with somebody and somebody said something just really egregious, but it was so sneaky that you didn’t quite catch it until about five or 10 minutes later, and then you’re like, wait a minute, why do I feel like crap? What just happened? And then you realize what they said?
So, this is these are all on the Cluster B. So, energy vampires are usually narcissist not always they can be borderline. But it’s usually narcissist. Can they be psychopaths? Can they be antisocial? Sociopaths? Yes, they can. And with the psychopaths and the antisocial there’s usually a reason that they’re doing it. It’s not just… how do I explain? The psychopaths and sociopaths say and do things to see how far they can push the envelope, the social envelope that’s really what they do. That’s, that’s you know, the rules don’t apply to me. I can say and do whatever I want get away with it. You know, I’m above the law I’m you know, whatever. And so those are the ones that will say and do horrible things to see if they can push their audience to agree with them on whatever horrible thing they’re saying.
So, so yeah, so anyway, um, so the psychic vampire or the emotional vampire are the ones that can walk into a room and they can be coworkers. Oh my god, we got to talk about all of these. They can be coworkers so I’m sure everybody has experienced this. You’re trying to get stuff done and sad Sally or sad sack walks over to your desk. Oh, let me tell you about my horrible weekend it sounds like Eyore but it’s, it’s worse than Eyore.I loved Eyore I just I loved Eyore, who was such a great little story anyway, but the point being is they’re like poor me and I need you to listen to me! So, they monopolize monopolize, monopolize, monopolize, monopolize. They are found at parties. They are found in the work force. They can be coworkers, they can be bosses. They can be, they can be anywhere.
So, okay, I just wanted to read a couple of articles that I found on psychology today. Wow, I need to clean these glasses. What the heck? Oh, it’s been a while. Oh, well, I’ll do it later. Okay, so five kinds of Emotional Vampires. This is by Judith Orloff medical doctor. As a surgeon, she’s found that there’s different kinds of energy vampires, signs that you have encountered and emotional vampire, your eyelids are heavy and you feel ready for a nap. I cannot tell you the number of times in social situations where somebody just starts talking and you’re like,
Kris Godinez 10:41
you know, because it’s just like they’re just monotonous and all sad sack and everything else. Your mood takes a nosedive. I think I’m gonna leave my glasses off. Um, you feel anxious, depressed or negative, you feel put down, you feel yucky after you’ve left them. So, it’s really important to notice or monitor how you are feeling. When you leave somebodies presence, you know, because a healthy person will leave you feeling uplifted and happy, basically. And if you’re with somebody who’s a narcissist, or a borderline or antisocial or whatever, you’re gonna be like, Oh my god, I just I’m so tired. I’m so tired. Why am I so tired? I feel gross. Feel like I’ve been slimed ew! What just happened, that kind of thing.
Alright, so types of Emotional Vampires, the narcissist talked about that. Alright, how to protect yourself, keep your expectations, expectations realistic. These are emotionally limited people try not to fall in love with one or expect them to be selfless, or to love without strings attached. Never make your yourself worth it dependent upon them, or to confide your deepest feelings to them. So oftentimes, Emotional Vampires will get you to you know, I’ll confide this if you but you got to tell me something, it’s this tit for tat kind of thing. And what they’re doing is they’re fishing, they’re looking for something that they can use against you at a later date. So, you always, always want to be really careful what you share in a social situation, especially if it’s with somebody new, or somebody that you don’t know that well, or somebody who has, in fact, shown you who they really are, in which case, you don’t share, you just don’t share, you make an excuse and you get out of there.
Kris Godinez 12:29
Okay, to successfully communicate the hard truth is that you must show how something will be to their benefit. So it’s manipulation. And you don’t I don’t recommend that I don’t recommend playing the narcissists game, the only time I would say you could kind of play that, you know, finding a way to get them out of the spotlight or finding them away to shut up or finding them away to whatever is if they are not in a position of power over you. If you’re dealing with a boss or whatever, you know, you can’t because they’re control freaks to remember, the further down the spectrum they get, the more overlapping all of the types of narcissism become and the more overlapping all of the different types of Cluster B become.
So the other type of vampires, the victim, victims, grate on you with the poor me attitude, the world is against them. It’s their reason. It’s the reason for their unhappiness. When you offer a solution. Their common response is yes, but so I call them Yes, butters. So yes, butters are there’s a problem. Here’s the solution. Oh, no, I can’t do that. Oh, well, yes. But you know, that type, and that tells me right there, boom, they don’t want this problem fixed. They are enjoying being miserable. So, I’m just gonna leave them to their miserableness. There we go. Eventually, you might end up screening your calls, or purposely avoiding them as a friend, you may want to help. But they’re tales of woe will overwhelm you. Yes, they will.
So, here’s the thing. Basically, in all of these articles that I’m going to be reading to you. It’s all about setting boundaries, it really truly is all about setting boundaries. And when somebody shows you who they are now, this is different. Venting is different from dumping. Let’s be very clear. Venting is where you ask permission, you tell your friend or your family member or whatever, I just need to vent this thing happened. Let’s talk about a solution when I’m done, but I just need to vent and then you go and you vent it and then at the end, okay, what do you think how do I handle this? What would you do in this situation? And then you talk about a solution. And then you figure out which is going to be the best solution and you move forward with it. That’s normal communication. With a dumper there. Yes, butters. Yes, but Oh, no, that won’t work. Oh, yes. But oh, I can’t do that. Oh, I can’t Yeah, stop talking to my abusive Dad, I can’t stop talking to my abusive partner. I can’t, you know, all of these excuses why they can’t. Now, okay, granted, if you’ve got kids, you obviously can’t stop talking to your abusive spouse because you got to talk about the kids. But if somebody is like staying in an abusive relationship, staying intentionally staying in an abusive relationship, they know it’s an abusive relationship. They don’t want to get out. They really don’t. They don’t really want help. But yet they keep coming back to you with the same problem every single day, every single day. This happened, this happened, this happened and you keep going. Do this. Think about that. Try this. And they’re always yes, but yes, but no, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.
Is there a difference between codependent and borderline? Yes, we’ll talk about that in the questions. John, if you could flag that, that would be cool. And here’s the thing. Here’s the interesting thing. The Emotional Vampires are very codependent. On having victims, they have to have victims, they have to have an audience. narcissists have to have a victim in order to get the narcissistic supply. So, boring someone to death or making them angry, because they’re bored to death, or just even having an ear. for the narcissist is supplied to them. A lot of them, swear to God and all its holy, they do this because they love, love to hear their own voice they,
Kris Godinez 16:29
they truly do. And those are the ones where you’re just kind of like y’all could have done this in an email, you know, it’s like, but they, they do this because they like to hear themselves talk. So, for an example, when I was working at the homeless shelter, we had this person that worked there that insisted, that insisted, we go to mandatory meetings every week. And the meetings were the same thing every week, week after week, and it cut into my time to be able to do notes, it cut into my time to be able to take care of my clients, the whole thing. And I finally just started doing my notes in the middle of the meeting. Well, this person had a fit, you can’t be doing your notes. Why not? I can hear you talk while I’m typing. And I’ve got 50 notes from this group that I just had right before your meeting. So, guess what? I’m going to be doing the notes. So, it and basically what it boiled down to is this person was so narcissistic, they had to have an audience for their “tell me how great I am” speech week after week after week after week after week after week. So yes, they are in positions of power, sadly, some of them. Some of them are coworkers. And usually with the coworkers though it’s it can be a competition thing. So sometimes well, we’ll get to that. They’ll, they’ll, they’ll try to put you down for some good accomplishment that you had, and then tell you how great they are. So that’s, that’s another energy vampire. So, let’s get back to this before I move on here. How are we doing on time? We’re doing great.
All right, how to protect yourself from the victim set firm limits. And here’s the thing in this article, it said firm but kind, I say Chuck kindness out the window. Just firm limits. Why? Because we have been groomed by our family of origin or by our abusers whoever got their hooks into us to be codependent. And we see the word no, as harsh and mean. And no is a really hard word for us. So, when I’m working with parents, teaching them how to teach their children boundaries. I say no is a wall. Teach them the no wall. The no wall keeps them safe. So, no is an okay word. It’s a boundary word. It’s a safe word. And so, when you’re dealing with one of these energy vampires, and especially if it’s coworker who’s like talking your ear off, you cannot be kind because kind to us means don’t say no, that’s See that’s why I had a problem with that word in that article. Because what it should have said gentle but firm. So, you can be gentle, but you must be firm. So, you don’t have to be like, No, you know, you can be like, I am really busy. I have got work to get done. I’ve got a deadline. I’m sorry, I cannot listen to you right now. You don’t even need to say I’m sorry. I cannot listen to you right now. No, and then you walk off. Now that’s gonna feel harsh and mean and cruel. That person if they are manipulative are going to crumble into 1000 tears. You don’t love me? Why aren’t you listening to me? Bla bla bla bla bla. And that to you should be your huge red flag because to a healthy normal person when we hear the word no, we go Oh, okay. Well, no wall. Okay, sorry. See you later you know, and off we go. Now narcissists stick around to get supply. So, if you’re feeling guilty if you’re feeling fearful, obligated or guilty, they will stick around and they will be but why? But why? But why? But why? and this is where you say no is a complete sentence. I do not need to explain it to You we are done by and then you leave.
So, the thing of it is, is that narcissist needs supply these types of narcissists, these types of energy vampires, these types of people using the term loosely, these type of people need supply. So, if you’re not giving it to them, if you’re like, Nope, sorry, I’m busy, come back later, you know, or whatever, they will go off and find somebody that is going to listen to their sad story because they need the supply. So, no is your friend Learn to say no, and be okay with it. So, what I teach the little kids when I used to do the new song Center and the Duggie Center, which are grief clinics, I used to teach the kids No, and I mean it. You put your hand out? No, and I mean, it. No is a complete sentence, I don’t need to explain it. And that’s what you need to start saying to these types, because they will they remember, they’re on the level of like, maybe a two year old on a good day if the wind is blowing from East. So, you know, you just got to be a broken record. No, and I mean it and then you walk off, you don’t stay there for the argument to continue. Because that’s what they’re looking for.
So, okay, um,
Kris Godinez 21:12
okay, further limits, listen briefly to the friend relative of coworker, but then say, I can’t stay to listen, I only have a few minutes unless you want to discuss solutions. Okay, so this is for the victim. One, this is the one that’s always victim, victim, victim, with a coworker sympathize by saying I’ll keep having good thoughts that things work out. I hope you understand. But I’m on a deadline, and I must return to work. I think that’s too nice. I would say, Gosh, I hope things work out for you. I’m on a deadline, I got to go back to work bye and then I would leave that’s exactly what I would do. Body language, Telegraph’s this isn’t a good time, such as crossing your arms or breaking eye contact. And those can help to enforce healthy limits. Well, those can help to enforce healthy limits when you’re dealing with somebody that’s healthy. Let’s just be clear about that. Because I have dealt with some really interesting people. Yeah, cross my arms, you know, gave them the look, they don’t get a clue. They don’t care that even that is narcissistic supply to them Do not stay in their presence. Either they leave or you leave one of the two. And if they don’t leave you leave, because you don’t want to sit there and continue to give them narcissistic supply. Okay, so Okay, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,
The controller these people No, this would be the queen, or the covert or overt narcissist. Um, these people obsessively try to control you and dictate how you’re supposed to be and feel. They have an opinion about literally everything, they’ll control you by invalidating your emotions when they don’t fit into their own rulebook. That makes me so angry when people do that. So, here’s the deal. Nobody gets to tell you how you feel. Nobody gets to do that. You have a right to your own emotion. So, if somebody goes this is the one that Oh, God, my dad used to do this. Don’t you be angry at me, you don’t have a right to be angry. And here he was abusing me and I had an absolute righteous anger. You know, so don’t you be angry? I’ll give you something to be angry about. Or don’t you cry? I’ll give you something to cry about. So, when somebody tells you that you don’t have the right to feel whatever it is, you’re genuinely feeling, that is your cue to run! Do not walk to the nearest exit you are dealing with an abuser, because nobody has the right to tell you how you feel you are feeling whatever it is you’re feeling. Emotions are not bad, but I’ll tell you what, narcissists and abusers whether they’re borderline or whether they’re narcissists, they can’t stand emotions. They can’t stand genuine emotions, genuine emotions, any genuine emotion, anger, sadness, hurt, happy, glad, scared, whatever, they cannot stand genuine emotions because they can’t feel them and enrages them, that you feel something that they will never feel. You know what I’m saying? So yeah, they don’t get the right to tell you what you are feeling if somebody tries to tell you what you’re feeling.
So this is why self-esteem is so hugely important Hang on. This is why self-esteem is so hugely important. You need to know who you are rock solid sun comes up in the east, sets in the west. You need to know who you are so that when some abuser tries to tell you who you are or what you are feeling you’re able to check in and go ah go pound sand mother Clucker! I don’t think so. This is what I’m feeling you don’t get to tell me what I’m feeling. Here’s the line, don’t freakin’ cross it. That’s how we stay safe, boundaries. So yeah, this is what you want to do. So, you want to know who you are. So, the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi the Disease to Please Harriet breaker boundaries. codependent no more, beyond codependent no more both by Melanie Beatty, any book on, on being assertive? Yes, do it inner child workbook, who groomed you? Who groomed you to have to always say yes. Who groomed you that no is not okay. These are all important things to do. These are, this is all the work you got to do to make sure that you are safe. Does that make sense? So okay, let’s get back to this.
Ah, all right. Um, the controller okay? It’s okay. They often start sentences with you know what you need, you know or let me tell you how you should feel about this so shoulda, coulda, woulda, and then they’ll proceed to tell you and you end up feeling dominated, demeaned or put down. So, this is why no is important and don’t allow anyone to tell you what you are feeling. Um,
Kris Godinez 25:37
never try to control a controller because they’re master manipulators. Be healthfully assertive, don’t tell them what to do. You can say I valued your advice, but I really need to work through this myself. That’s a good way to handle it. Be confident and do not play the victim.
Okay, the constant talker. Those are the ones you get at work. These people aren’t interested in your feelings. They don’t want a solution. They are only concerned with themselves. You may wait for an opening to get a word in edgewise. But it will never come. Or they might physically move in close so that they’re practically breathing on you. You edge backwards, but they step closer. Oh, God, I hate that. So yeah, that’s a form of domination. So, moving in closer, because we all have this nice little bubble. It’s about three feet that feels comfortable with a stranger or with somebody you’re moderately to closer if you’re intimate with the person, but these people move in. And they’re like intimidating. And so, remember narcissists and abusers if they can’t outright control you will try to use intimidation, that is a form of intimidation, that is physically intimidating. So basically, with people like that, I tell them please back up. I’m not comfortable, please back up. That’s too close. Thank you and especially Love in the Time of COVID Now that we’re in the middle of another frickin wave of COVID Don’t get me started because Yeah, John and I are actually in quarantine this week because somebody at our Pilates class tested positive and refused to wear masks don’t get me started. So, you know, especially in this time and time and age, you want to make sure that people are away from you. But even before that in the time before COVID If somebody gets too close, it’s really creepy. It’s it’s, it’s an intimidation thing. And it’s, it’s especially disturbing to those of us who have been sexually or physically abused, because that’s what our abuser would do. They would march right into our space and do whatever they wanted to and that will set off dissociation like nobody’s business that will set up PTSD that will set up Oh, yeah. Triggers. So yeah, so you have the right you have the right to literally push them away, get out of my space. This is not okay, get out of my space, I can hear you fine from over there. You know, and they do that on purpose because they’re looking to, they’re looking for that entrance, they’re looking for that weak point. And, and they’re predators. They are like sharks, they can smell blood in the water. So, if they notice that you’re getting you’re checking out because they’re getting too close or you’re getting angry or whatever, that they know they’ve gotcha but then you need to assert your own right to have your own space and backup. This is too close. Thank you! These people honestly, I just don’t even get me started. All right. Um, okay, so how are we doing a time? We’re gonna go over again sorry.
Okay, the drama queen. These types of people have a flair for small incidents to become major dramas. So, mountain into K2 or you know a molehill into K2. Um, they’re always you know, having drama, drama, drama, drama. Things are overblown. Things are way out, you know, exaggerated. How to protect yourself. The drama queen can’t draw in energy from equanimity. Stay calm. Take a few deep breaths. This will help you not get caught up in the histrionics. So, drama queens, drama kings, they want you to get as wrapped up in the drama with them as they are. And that’s where they get their narcissistic supply from. This is why, you know, they tell these outrageous stories and they blow things up out of proportion. And they want you to be just as angry or upset as they are, don’t! It’s not your problem. And the problem of it is, is that as people who love and care and are kind and are empathic, we have a tendency to believe the best of everybody, which unfortunately we can’t, that’s dangerous for us. And we also have a tendency to match people with their energy. So, you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to match their energy. You don’t want to mirror them you want to take a deep breath and, uh huh, uh huh. Okay, I hear this is really upsetting to you. Okay, what do you need? And they hate that because then that forces them to say a solution. And usually, I don’t know do anything about my remember, they want to just keep going. Well, really sorry, this is happening to you, but I’ve got to go bye and you leave. Okay,
Kris Godinez 30:20
so there is that. So there was that article on Psychology Today, it was called five kinds of Emotional Vampires you could encounter by Judith Orloff medical doctor.
Next one is slaying energy vampires. Now this one I thought was interesting. I do want to hit this one. Before I go into the questions. This person is in a corporation, and they realized that in the corporation, it is called slaying the energy vampires by Aaron Hearst. So, they realized that in their corporation, there were individuals that were dragging the corporation and other people down. So, what they did is they asked people to talk about their interactions with other coworkers, and how they felt after their interactions with a coworker. So, there are going to certain people in the organization who may be great performers, but no one wants to work with them, you dread meeting with them, they can suck the life out of a team. So, what they did, they decided to have a frank regular conversation to identify if any of them were working in the corporation. So, what they did is the they asked a question, we realized 10% of our organized organization were energy sucking vampires. There was no real discussion about it. When someone named a potential vampire, everybody vehemently agreed it wasn’t subtle. It was hard to transfer and transition them out. Given that several of them were strong, individual contributors, but within a few months, they were all gone. The funny thing that happened is the next few management meetings, we couldn’t name a single energy vampire left in the organization, and everyone reported morale and results. Employee engagement and retention increased by over 25%. We saw collaboration and innovation increase political nonsense went way down. After a year or two, we realized that the only the one time purge had done more than identify the energy suckers. It trained us the organization to screen for these vampires in interviews, and we stopped hiring them. And that is what needs to happen in corporations. Now there’s, there’s been this huge myth that narcissists are these wonderful CEOs and these wonderful, no, they’re not. They’re good at intimidation, they’re good at lying. They’re good at cheating. They’re good at blaming, but they’re not good at being a team worker. So, I applaud this corporation for having the cohones, to realize that energy suckers not team players not willing to you know work with other people not willing to whatever, and they got rid of them and look, they’re doing so much better, so much healthier, so much happier so much retention. And that’s what needs to happen in corporations in businesses everywhere. We need to stop allowing them to keep hiring or to just promote up problem children that’s what happens it’s like they get promoted up so that they’re away oh, I don’t want them they’re hot potato here you take them you know that kind of thing. What it should be is Ooh, hot potato not appropriate for our business. You’re not a good fit, but bye bye now Bye Bye but people are afraid to do that because of the codependency Okay, so there was that.
Last article is how to deal with people who drain you so they’re intrusive show poor boundaries overly dramatic, make mountains out of molehills overly critical finding fault with just about everyone and everything. So, their external critic is on steroids which means their internal critic is probably on steroids too chronic complainers rarely find anything to their liking or their satisfaction. It could be a beautiful day. Oh my god. It could be a beautiful day. Sun is shining. Birds are singing. It’s gorgeous. You mentioned how beautiful it is and what do they start talking about? Their bowel movements. I’m not kidding you they do that. So yeah, they will find chronic complaining. They cannot see feel the flowers in front of them. They really cannot. Argumentative, have trouble agreeing with others even on things that seem insignificant or inconsequential. So narcissists especially need to be right about everything and they will start arguments over which way the toilet paper faces I’m not kidding you it doesn’t freakin’ matter. Does the same business no matter which way you put it doesn’t matter. There’s bigger issues in this world. Trust me on that one. So yeah, they will they will do that. Relentlessly demanding and persistent being unable to take no for an answer. So, these are the ones that when you say now are going to go but why? But why? But why? But why? And you that’s when you have to be like this Stop, and I mean it. No means no. No is a complete sentence we’re done. And then you leave. And you don’t stick around. Okay?
Kris Godinez 35:10
Wait, where’d I go? Okay, constantly negative did that glass is half empty, unable to accept responsibility blaming everyone but themselves for their own actions and problems. So basically, what they’re saying is know one when you see one, you know, if you’ve dealt with them before, they’re not going to change. They don’t change, they don’t change. Um, pay close attention to your gut instincts and physical reactions. If you find yourself experiencing muscle tension, loss of energy, headache, irritability, sadness, confusion, or negativity, you are dealing with an energy vampire, get them out of your life, or at least you get away from them. Limit your contact, which is what I’ve always said don’t get pulled in. And that’s the biggest thing. Don’t get pulled into it. So okay, so those were all of the articles that I found on psychology today.
So basically, to, to recap, go watch “What We Do In the Shadows”. It’s so awesome. And Mark can’t remember his last name. Povich, proche prosper approach something. Anyway, he’s the one who plays Colin Robinson. And he does it to the nth degree. It is just I love that show. I really do. And Laszlo who would have thought! Who would have thought that Laszlo could be a hero, seriously. So anyway, um, go watch the show. It’s really good. There’s, there’s a whole, there’s one that features Mark doing Collin Robinson, and he’s going up against a troll on the internet. And of course, it turns out to be a real troll. So, he does battle with him, and it’s just hysterically funny. So, I strongly recommend you go watch that.
So basically, to recap, all energy vampires are cluster B’s, they are either borderline further down on the spectrum, or they are narcissistic, they’ve got different ways of doing it, depending on if they’re over covert or communal, if they’re hermit, witch, or queen, queen, or witch. And it’s all the same thing. So basically, what it is they need that supply, they need that energy, they need you to fall asleep, they need you to feel miserable. They need to hear their own voice, I swear to God, it’s just like, oh, my god, shut the hell up Jesus Christ. You know what I’m saying? So, if you are cornered by one of these people, and this happened to me back in my 20s, I remember getting cornered by this, we were at a business meeting, you know, John was at a convention or whatever. And I went with him to San Francisco. And there were three women. Two were French Canadians, and one was German. And the German one was an energy vampire. And she literally peeled me away from the French Canadians and talked my ear off the entire weekend, I wanted to go hang out with the French Canadians because they were having more fun. So, but because at that point in time, I wasn’t able to say no and mean it because I didn’t want to hurt her feelings. You know what, if that happened today, I’d be like, peace out. I’m going with the French Canadians by you know? Because now I have the ability to know who I am what I want. And not that I don’t care. But I could tell this would not have been a huge hit to the ego for this person. It’s like, I’m sure it’s happened before. So, do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s like, if somebody is talking your ear off at a party. I what I do is John, hi. Oh, hey, gotta go. You know, I gotta go. And I’ll just leave, you know what I’m saying? Or, you know, oh, look there, Sandy. Oh, gotta go, you know, and I’ll run over to the other side of the room and grab them and be like, keep them the hell away from me. You know, so, yeah, and sometimes they’ll try to follow but then you just keep going, you know, you just go keep people up and around and don’t let them corner you. If they corner you, you come up with an excuse, Oh, I gotta go to the bathroom. Oh, you know, gotta go help so and so or I gotta, you know, whatever. If it’s a coworker, I’m sorry. I’ve got a deadline. Not even I’m sorry. I’ve got a deadline. I don’t have time right now. And then you leave, you just leave. You don’t allow them to give you or if they’re at your cubicle. I’ve got a deadline, come back later. And then you just don’t and you just put in here buds and you keep going, you know. So yeah, there’s ways around it. So, they’re just these people.
Alright, let’s get to the questions. All right. So, um, do people who grieve cheat on their partners? I know someone I know used his parents loss as an excuse. While he was cheating on her with me. Oh my god. Cheaters are always, always, always narcissists. Always. Always grieving the loss of your parents, so you can get down and funky with somebody else. That doesn’t sound like grief to me. So, you know, here’s the deal. Cheaters are always narcissists, always. They
Kris Godinez 39:51
need a harem. They need a Drama Triangle. So, they’re, they’re using the Oh I’m grieving so I just need to comort from you, sweet thing, we thing as opposed to my spouse, you know, so they need a Drama Triangle. And so, they will use, they will use the wind blowing out of the West as an excuse seriously! Well, it’s not my fault the wind was blowing out of the west, you know? No. It’s if somebody is using the death of their parents as an excuse to cheat, run, do not walk to the nearest exit seriously. So, it won’t get better. They won’t leave you for you know, leave, leave them their spouse for you. This is this is a common thing is this. Maybe I should do a thing on that. Maybe I should do a thing on that. Maybe not next week, but the week after so in two weeks, I want to be doing something on lies cheaters tell. I think that would be a good one. So, lies cheaters tell I think would be a good one. Because one of the things they always say is Oh, I’m gonna divorce them. I’m gonna leave them. It’s gonna happen 20 years later, no, no, I’m gonna leave them it’s gonna happen. And never does. They need a harem. They need a harem. And trust me you’re not the only one. I know. I’m sorry. So um, ya know, if they’re using the death of their parents as an excuse, no, they’re, they’re narcissistic.
Can a covert narcissist also be overt at times? Yes. My narc. Mom was very much attention seeking all the time and playing the victim and talked always about inappropriate things at the wrong time. Yeah, so remember, narcissists can weave their way through the different types of narcissism depending on what is needed to get their narcissistic supply. So yeah, they’ll if playing the victim works, they’ll play the victim if being overt and look at me, I’m fabulous. Tell me how great I am on the best thing ever. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, then yeah, they’ll do that, you know, or if they need to sound like the guru, they’ll become the communal narcissist. They’ll suddenly be like, this holy pious person or they’ll be incredibly woke or whatever the BS is that they’re doing so yeah, they will weave their way back and forth through whatever works, whatever gets them their narcissistic supply. It’s like coke for them. It is like coke for them. So yeah, absolutely.
Um, is there a difference between a codependent and a borderline? Yes. So okay. codependency is where you need approval, okay, in order to be okay. I’m not okay. Unless they’re okay. That’s really that’s codependency. So, it looks either like this two codependence leaning on each other, which if one of them leaves no bueno. Or it’s like this A codependent propping up, usually a narcissist, or a borderline or whatever. And if they go away, kathunk. Okay. Borderline Personality Disorder is a fear of being abandoned. It is based in trauma. So, hold on, let me pull up the criteria for that. So, you understand. Let’s look up Mayo Clinic, Mayo Clinic, borderline, borderline, there we go. Alright, so Alright, intense fear of abandonment, even going to extreme measures to avoid real or imagined separation or rejection. It is intensely terrifying to them to be abandoned or to even think about being abandoned. And unfortunately, with borderline personality disorder, it has traits of all 10 Major personality disorders, and it borders on psychotic thinking when they really get going into that hole. I’m going to be abandoned. Oh my god, you meant this when you said that. It’s really, It’s psychotic thinking. So okay, hold on. codependents don’t have that. A pattern of unstable intense relationships, such as idealizing someone one moment and then suddenly believing the person doesn’t care enough or is cruel. So, they create the roller coaster in their own head and it’s horrible. And so it’s like, oh, they’re wonderful and they’re perfect to their face said this and they meant that so with somebody who’s got borderline personality disorder that is not being treated Hold on.
Kris Godinez 44:38
You could say good morning to them and they will read something completely different into that. Well, what did you mean by that? You meant fill in the blank and it’s usually not good. So that’s not codependency. Okay, hold on. Let’s go back. rapid changes and self identity and self image that includes shifting goals and values and seeing yourself as bad whereas if you don’t exist at all periods of stress related paranoia and loss of contact with reality lasting from a few minutes to a few hours, impulsivity and risky behaviors, gambling, reckless driving unsafe sex spending sprees, binge eating drug abuse, sabotaging success by suddenly quitting a good job or ending a positive relationship simply because you’re afraid of being abandoned, and that’s what happens they do, it’s a pre emptive abandonment is what it is. So, when they feel like they’re going to be abandoned, they will intentionally shove the person away. So that it’s, they’re the ones that did it, they’re not having it done to them. And that’s what’s so damaging. And that’s what’s so sad about it is because they really just want to be loved. So okay, so there is that, um, suicidal threats or behaviors self-injury, often in response to fear of separation or rejection. Wild mood swings, lasting from a few hours to a few days, which could include intense happiness, irritability, shame, or anxiety, ongoing feelings of emptiness, inappropriate intense anger, such as frequently losing your temper being sarcastic or bitter, or having physical fights. So that’s if it’s not being dealt with. So, with codependency, codependency is more, I need them to like me, in order to be okay, I need them to be okay, in order to be okay, I need their approval I need so it’s other approval, other esteem. It’s not to the point where you’re suicidal, if you don’t get it, it’s not to the point where you’re intensely afraid of you’re afraid of it, but you’re not intensely afraid of it. So codependency very different than borderline some similarities, but not a lot. So, I hope that answered the question. If it didn’t just let me know. And I’ll try to give you a better answer. If that didn’t cover it. Um, how are we doing on time? Okay, we’re doing good.
All right, um, some people suck the life out of you. And don’t respect boundaries. But they’re unique, interesting, and sometimes helpful. Is there anything we can do to improve the friendship? Well, here’s the deal. If it is just a behavioral thing, and it’s not narcissism, and it’s not a Cluster B, you can make them aware of it, you know, you have these great qualities. And here’s something that I see happening that might harm you in the future, you know, or with other people or whatever. If they’re a healthy, normal adult, they’ll take it into consideration and start working on it. Or they’ll say, thank you very much. That’s not really me. You know, do you see where I’m going with that? If they’re narcissistic, however, or if they are on the cluster B’s at all, they will either break into a million tears, and you’re the bad guy, or they’ll become enraged? How dare you criticize me blah, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. So, you know, you could confront them about it. But caution, you know, just use caution and just be prepared. If they’re healthy and normal. They’ll be like, Oh, I didn’t know I was doing that. Okay, well, let me fix that. Or if they’re not healthy and normal, they’ll break into a million tears, and you’re the bad guy, or they’ll rage and if they to either one of those, run, do not walk to the nearest exit? Absolutely.
Okay. Um, could you give some phrases of how to stop these people rambling on about their problems? Okay. Let me take this a two part question. So, um, so if they’ve come to you before with the same problem, what I will do, and I do this with my clients, when they try to do the whole, let’s talk about the same thing over and over and over again, I will say, okay, stop right there. We’ve already talked about this, we’ve already come up with a solution, you’ve already told me you’re not interested. So either, we talked about something else or you tell me how you’re going to take steps to fix this? I guarantee you, they’re not going to like it. Because you know, if they’re really invested in staying stuck and being victims, they don’t want to come up with their own solutions. And they just want to sit there and bend your ear and hear their own voice. So yeah, you know, it’s just stop. We’ve already talked about this. You didn’t like my solution? What are you going to come up with?
Kris Godinez 49:21
And that may send them off on a different route. Or we’ve already talked about this. You didn’t like my solution? So I’m not I’m not listening to this again. That’s a boundary. That’s a boundary. Does it sound harsh? Yeah. Is it harsh? Really? No, it’s not. Because here’s the thing, if you do not draw this boundary for them, they will just continue you to waste your time to listen to themselves talk and to make sure that you’re just as miserable as they are. So no, you get to say no, you get to say no. Okay, let me go back to the second part of that question. Um, okay, and how do you stop people from ramble On the phone, as well without just hanging up, okay. So, when I have dealt with people that try to keep you on the phone, and this happens a lot, family members, potential clients, you know, the whole thing. I just let them know, I’m sorry, I don’t have time to continue talking. We’ll continue this some other time. Gotta go by click or click pushing buttons, it says to click, you know, say the old days, you would click but now you push. So anyway, the point being is, is that you basically, you just let them know, it’s kind of like a two minute warning. But it’s like a 32nd warning. It’s like, I’m sorry, I don’t have time. I’ve got another client coming in, or I’m sorry, I don’t have time. I’ve got to go. But we’ll continue this some other time. Or, or, you know, I’m sorry, I’ve got to go. I’ll talk to you later. And they will continue talking. Trust me. So you’re just going to have to go, I’m sorry, I’ve got to go. I’ll talk to you later. Bye. Click or push or beep you know what I mean? So, you don’t worry about them continuing talking. They’re going to they’re going to because this is their game. This is their manipulation. This is their way to control you. This is your their way to stay on the phone so that you keep listening to them. So yeah, in some cases, it’s with some family members, I have just clicked, pushed, beeped, mid sentence after I told them I had to go, you know, somebody at the door, gotta go bye click, you know, I’m always gonna say click, that’s never gonna change. It’s just it’s always going to be a click. So, yeah, I got somebody at the door, gotta go by click. That’s what you do. Or, you know, somebody is, um, you know, okay, I love it when salesmen come to my door. And I will tell them, I’m sorry, I’m not interested. And they will try to keep talking and I will shut the door in their face. I’ve already said I’m sorry, I’m not interested, get the hell off my property. You know, seriously, it’s you don’t have to sit there and listen to them. And some of them. Oh, my God. So they’ve started with the emails. I’m sure this has been going on forever. But I just recently got one not too long ago, where they wanted me to join some thing for life coaches, and I was like, I’m not a life coach. I’m an LPC. I’m quite happy with what I’m doing right now. Thank you very much for the offer. But the answer’s no. Because I figured, okay, this would be you know, proper to say no, thank you, blah, blah, blah. And I was thinking, okay, that’s the end of it. The person emailed me back and demanded to know why I said no, and I went red flag flag on the play 10 yards.
Kris Godinez 52:43
And I blocked him, because it was like, I don’t owe you an explanation. I just told you no, no, is a complete sentence. You’re clearly a jackwagon buh bye! You know, and so it’s always amazing to me to watch these narcissists. Try the manipulation try the clearly, they didn’t know who they were dealing with. But try the guilt. That’s my favorite one. It’s like Oh, really? You’re gonna try to guilt me? How about no, block. You know, it’s it doesn’t work on me anymore. Why? Self esteem workbook? Glen. Sure all the mirror work daily. Hi, good to see you have a great day. I give you permission to say no and mean it. It’s okay. walk out. Do you see where I’m going? I know who I am. I know who I am. And nobody else can tell me who I am. And if they try, they get blocked. Simple as that. And that’s where I want you guys to get that’s where I want you guys to get because that is what’s going to stop them. That is what’s going to keep you bulletproof from energy vampires, narcissists borderlines that are not willing to work on themselves, histrionics psychopaths, etc.
So, if you know who you are, nobody can tell you who you are. If you know who you are, and you know your boundaries. Nobody can march over those boundaries they might try once, you know, but then after that, ah, No way, man. No way. So yeah, this is why self-esteem This is why I keep saying self-esteem is the key to healing self-esteem and boundaries. The word no, no, when I mean it, and not putting up with crap. When somebody shows me especially a stranger when somebody shows me who they are. And I’m just like, really? You’re going to try that on me? How about go pound sand? And whatever else I can say that’s a four letter word that I can no longer say because I’m being sponsored. So anyway, the point being is, is they try it and then I block them. I don’t even play. The best way to win is to not play don’t play their game. They want you to stay and argue and that’s what that person wanted. They wanted me to write back and explain. No, I don’t. I’m like I’m sorry. You’re not the boss of me. I don’t know you Jack diddly squat. Thank you have a nice day. Go pound sand. You know what I’m saying? So, block we’re done. You know or if it’s in person. I said no, Get off my property. Shut the door. You know? Seriously, it’s that simple. So, but with us being groomed and raised by abusers we have been groomed and raised to be codependent and we’ve been groomed and raised to think that doing that is terrible and rude and this and that and the other thing and horrible and bla bla bla bla bla. No, no, no, no, no. Let me be very clear the only people who think boundaries are rude are abusers. The only people who think boundaries are rude. Are abusers. Abusers also think manners are rude. They think people who have manners are chumps. Because it’s a weakness to them.
Kris Godinez 55:44
So I mean, you can be nice about saying no, but if they don’t take no for an answer, you then have to get tough and you have to slam the door in their face or you have to block them, period. That’s what you have to do to protect yourself because some of these people you’re right will not take no for an answer. And you have to be able to say guess what? Mother Clucker you’re taking no for an answer. Have a nice day. Go pound sand. So there that is okay.
Let’s see. Ah, okay. How can they the energy vampires be happy talking to someone who clearly doesn’t want to talk or listen because they enjoy knowing that they’re annoying you? They do. They enjoy seeing that you’re irritated, and you’re flustered. And you can’t find a way to say no, no, you can’t walk away. It’s a power trip to them. They enjoy it. Honest to God, I’m saying Listen to me now, believe me later, go watch What We Do In The Shadows. The Colin Robinson thing. He’s got it down. That actor God love him. He’s got it down. The writers, God love them. They’ve got it down. They understand how these people work. They enjoy seeing people squirm. They enjoy seeing people pass out. They enjoy seeing people trying to look for an exit, not being able to find one because they can’t say no. They enjoy it. It makes them feel powerful. That’s their supply. Yeah. And it also plays into the fact that they don’t like themselves. And so there’s a part of them that’s like, oh, this person really doesn’t like me. Oh, well, I’m just gonna keep talking. That’ll prove that they like me. You know, it’s this weird, sick dynamics. So, you don’t even play, you just walk away, walk away.
The other thing I’ve seen them do too, is when you do walk away? Why don’t you like me? And I talk about this in my new book that’s coming out yes, this month. It’s So, You Want To Be A Therapist, which is an insider’s guide to my profession. So, when I was going through school, there was a woman that was in school that should not have ever been allowed to be in a position that would make her become a therapist, she should she should not have been a therapist ever. And she was there to learn about herself. So, she was disordered like nobody’s business, and she would intentionally sabotage whatever Learning Team she was in. So, she got put into my learning team one time, and she started the whole sabotage and the whole drama, and she tried to use us for therapy, free therapy, you know, for 2, 3, 4 hours. And I finally threw my foot down and told the other people I said, I’m not doing this. I’m not she’s, she has no business being a therapist, she can flunk out her part of the learning team, I’m going to do my work, you’re going to do your work, she’s obviously going to piss off. So, we’ll figure it out. But we’re gonna get it done. And then one day, and I obviously, I’m not good about hiding my feelings I never have been. If I don’t like somebody, it’s pretty obvious. So, one day, she cornered me in the bathroom. Why don’t you like me? We’re adults in a master’s program, right? So we come out of the bathroom, and I knew exactly what I was dealing with. And I was like, I don’t like you. I don’t dislike you. I don’t think about you. And I turned around, and I walked out. And then she broke into a wailing, wailing million tears, and she fully expected me to turn around and come back and comfort her and I did not do it. And from that day on, she avoided me, because she knew she was not going to get narcissistic supply. I wasn’t going to play. I wasn’t going to give it to her. I wasn’t going to play her game. You know? And she tried everything. She tried the intimidation. She tried the victim. She tried that, you know, so yeah, they’re everywhere. They’re everywhere. So you just have to be willing to say no, and you have to be willing to walk away and you have to be willing to let them have whatever drama game they’re gonna have. Now Was she really hurt and wailing because she was so hurt by me? No. She was wailing because she wanted to make sure everybody knew that her little feelings had been hurt, and that she wanted me to come back and comfort her and I wasn’t about to do that. So, So, yeah, they’re drama, drama, I’m sorry, drama belongs either on the stage or on the screen. And that is it. I’m not putting up with that in my life. And I’m certainly not putting up with that in a degree where I need to get my license, so you’re not messing with my future. So, do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah. So, you got to say no, and you got to mean it. And you cannot be… What’s the word I’m looking for? You are not responsible for their reaction. You’re not I mean, obviously, unless you said something really horrible to them, like, you know, you know, calling them names or whatever.
Kris Godinez 1:00:35
But if you’re just stating a fact, it’s like, I don’t like you. I like you. I don’t think about you. Doesn’t matter. And then I leave, and they’re gonna have whatever reaction because it’s in their own head. So you do not be held hostage to them. They want to hold you hostage. We do not negotiate with terrorists. We don’t don’t play. Don’t play. Okay. I think we’re running out of time. She’s gone long on this one. So anyway, that’s it, losing my voice. Let’s call it good for this week. Happy New Years, everybody. I hope everybody had a great weekend. And you guys take good care of yourselves. Drink plenty of water, get plenty of rest. eat as healthy as you can get an exercise. Alright, my loves, go be awesome. Talk to you later. Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.
You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.