We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

01-22-2023 Down in the Dumps
On this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris Discusses situational vs. clinical depression, what to expect when leaving abuse and how to help mitigate the blues.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so, personal appearances. I will be in Santa Barbara, on February 18th. So, we’ll put that up on the krisgodinez.com for tickets for that. Um, what else? I’m going to be in Florida in December. I’m going to bring Moana with me there. And I’m going to bring Moana along with me to Santa Barbara So, that’ll be cool. Um, let’s see what else can I tell you? Thinking, thinking. Oh, and then of course, Vancouver, I’m going to be in Vancouver is Moana will not be with me in Vancouver, but Vancouver BC in May. So, if you want to see where I am showing up for meet and greets, just go to Krisgodinez.com. And there will be all the meet and greets there. And Andy I would like that left in so people can know where to go.

All right, current events. So, I am so happy that mental health stuff is starting to be addressed in the media.


I’m not happy about the latest shooting, there was another shooting in California, which I’m just like, oh my god, people stop. So again, I’m sure some mental health issue going on there. And you know what I think about that. So, there’s that, but on the good sides. Like that’s the bad news. Here’s the good news. The good news is, is in the new Puss in Boots movie post has a total panic attack, and they show it and it kind of it really lets people know this is what a panic attack feels like. So, he’s unable to do the things that he normally does, because he’s getting older. He’s an older kitty. And he’s like running through the forest. And he finally collapses and all he can hear is his heartbeat. And so, this little dog that’s a therapy dog comes up and lays his head on his chest. And as his heartbeats start slowing down, he starts petting the dog and he starts calming down. But you can hear the breathing and the heart beating and things like that. It’s like that is a great representation of what it feels like to have a panic attack. So, I just thought that was really nice that they’re kind of like yes, this does happen. Yes, this is what it feels like. And this is to help people understand this is what it feels like, so I thought that was great. So go see Puss in Boots, the newest one. I’ve always loved that character. “Am Puss in boots!”  I always loved that. I always thought that was so funny. Anyway, so that is my current events. On the one hand, there’s still bad things happening. And on the other hand, there’s good things happening. And I think that the more we talk about panic attacks, mental health issues, etc., etc., etc. And the more we realize we’ve got to do something to help people that have mental illness so that all of us are safe. That would be good. That would be good. I know I’m repeating myself anyway, there that is so go see Puss in Boots. I thought that was really good. And as a total side note, I went to go see Plane, the one with Gerard Butler. Oh my God, it was actually a good movie. Usually, I’m not thrilled with his movies because he picks some really weird movies. But this one was fun. This was a fun movie. It was Gerard Butler. And he does normal Scottish accent which I was just like, Yay, team. That was awesome. So yeah, good when we go see it. Anyway, there is that.

Okay, let’s dive into today’s topic down in the dumps, or is it something more serious? So, depression, clinical depression versus, you know, just feeling down? Alright. So, when we come out of an abusive relationship, it is a roller coaster, I think is the best way to put it. So, they’re doing the devalue and discard. They’re lying to us. They’re telling us all these horrible things about ourselves that are not true. And we believe them because


we loved them, and we, you know, expect them to treat us like we treat them, which is not the case, obviously. So, we come out of that relationship, we realize, Okay, we’re done. We don’t want to be treated like that anymore. We’re leaving. And we get out. And there’s a sense of relief. But there’s also this sense of absolute self-doubt. Absolute not feeling good about yourself, absolute not trusting yourself absolute, you know, all sorts of, you know, second-guessing, did I do the right thing? Oh my god, did I just throw away the love of my life? No, you didn’t! No, you didn’t, you did not throw away the love of your life that person does not love.

So, we have all of these mixed emotions. And there’s a difference between feeling down and being clinically depressed. So, feeling down feeling, feeling depressed, feeling sad, feeling hopeless, feeling all of that on a temporary level is normal. So, when I say temporary, I mean, like, less than three to six months, okay? That would be normal. If it lasts longer than that, and it is most of the day every day, and it is impairing your functioning. In other words, your thoughts are so unrelentingly negative that you’re not even able to get up and take a shower, feed yourself do things like that. That’s clinical depression because the brain, at this point, is unable to produce the feel-good chemicals.

What are the feel-good chemicals? So, feel-good chemicals are norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, all of those things. And so, when we, you know, go for a jog, all of those released our brain or our brain goes, Oh, that feels really good. Or we eat a good meal. Oh, that tastes really good. Or, you know, have great sex. Oh, that’s really good. Yeah, it all releases. But when we’re clinically depressed, nothing makes the brain produce enough of those feel-good chemicals for us to feel good. So, it’s, it’s such a roller coaster for survivors of abuse, because we do feel depressed most of the day, every day for a very, very, very long time. Especially if we’re dealing with court stuff. It’s, it is so hard, especially for people who are divorcing because or have a custody battle. Because if it’s just a single person getting rid of an abuser, it is so much easier to just go no contact. That’s it. We’re done. Don’t contact me. Here’s a restraining order back off. What was that shirt I saw the other day Bibbity boppity back off? So, I thought that was really cool. Anyway, um, you know, so it’s done.

But if you’re divorcing a narcissist, if you are divorcing an abuser, if you’ve got children together if you’ve got property together if you’ve got anything of value together, because they do use children as something to be used. So, because we mean nothing more to them than a pen, I don’t have one around. But if I could hold a pen that we mean nothing more to them to the pen, so everything is to be used. So, what they do is they drag it out. Meanwhile, we’re going through this healing process that with I think, How do I explain this? In a healthy breakup? And yes, there are healthy breakups with people that are not disordered, and healthy break up and go your own way. Everything’s, you know, relatively okay. There’s no nastiness, there’s no, you know, smearing there’s no, you know, up and down, discard, devalue, blah, blah. It’s mutually agreed. We’re not working out. We need to find somebody that does fit us better. You know, I wish you well, Hasta. And then you split, and you go your ways. And that’s it. With an abuser. It is never that simple. They will, if there’s no children to fight over, they’ll fight over the dog. If there’s no dog to fight over, they’ll fight over the toaster. If there’s no toaster to fight over, they’ll fight over the car. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like they find a way to keep that messed up dysfunctional connection to the target of abuse, even though they’re saying I hate you. I don’t want anything to do with you. You’re this. You’re that. You guns, even though they’re doing that they do want some sort of control over the target of abuse because it gives them their jollies. They get off on it. So, in a healthy breakup, it’s kind of like, you know, okay, here I am, and I’m slowly getting better, and everything’s great. When we’re having to deal with an abuser. It’s like, okay, I’ve left the abuser, everything’s great. And now they’re calling me and fussing about the children’s shoes or something. So, then we slide back down, and then everything starts going great. And now they’re smearing me to my boss.


Okay, and everything’s going great, and now they’re doing something else and we’re sliding back down. So, it’s not a linear, you know, like a, like a takeoff. It’s like we don’t ever get to take off. Because these jerks are constantly dragging us back. It’s almost like, remember the godfather? Remember when he’s like, you know, I tried to get out and they just keep dragging me back! That is what it’s like to be with an abuser. They just keep dragging us back. They don’t really want us to be completely without them. Now, that is not because they love us. Let us be very clear. And a lot of people really, really, oh my gosh, really confused that. So, I was reading something the other day in one of the forums, and this person was asking a question. And they were like, you know, I realized that my partner is abusive, and a narcissist, and this and that and the other thing, I’ve gone no contact, I’ve stopped, and now all of a sudden, they’re saying, oh, I want to go to therapy. Oh, I want to do that. No, they don’t change. They say that to drag you back. We’ve talked about that. And that’s another reason why we have such down, down moods down, down, down, down. So, it’s not, it is not easy what we are doing, leaving, it is not, and you also kind of get on that pink cloud when you finally get rid of the abuser and everything’s great.

And we’re feeling great about it. And then we start having to process all of the trauma, all of the abuse, all the lies, all of the devalue, discard everything. It’s not easy. It is not easy. And I just want to validate that it… this is 10 times harder than a normal breakup. It is 100,000 times harder than a normal breakup. It is not a take-off. Like it would be if you were in a healthy relationship, it is more of a get-going fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback, but you are climbing, you just don’t realize it because you keep getting dragged back so much. They will do everything they can to keep you in that unhappy state. They’re, oh, they’re only happy if it rains. Seriously. They’re only happy if you’re miserable. They’re only happy if you’re suffering and if you’re not doing as well as they are, which they love to put on to Facebook and everything else.

So situational depression is what a lot of survivors have. If it weren’t for the damn abuser, you’ll be great. You’ll be like, Okay, this is over. We’re done. We’re moving forward. Everything’s good. But these jerks keep dragging us back with court, with nasty letters, nasty emails, nasty texts, nasty phone calls, etc., etc., etc. My recommendation is do not talk to them on the phone. Even if you have children together, the phone is to be used for emergencies only. I mean, somebody needs to be on the ground bleeding, seriously! Because abusers will go oh, it’s an emergency and then get the target of abuse on the phone and use that as the opportunity to just beat the living crap out of them verbally. If they can’t do it physically, they’ll do it verbally. So.

So situational depression is what we’ve got. So situational. The situation sucks. Let’s be clear. This is not fun. This is not great. We’re dealing with all the lies. We’re dealing with the realization that the person we fell in love with never existed. That’s a mind, huh? You know what I’m saying? It absolutely messes with your mind because it’s kind of like, but this is how they were. And I wanted them to go back to that, well, no, there was that was not real. What’s real is the way they treated you the rest of the relationship. So situational depression, though, we come out of that relationship, and we’re continually having to deal with their nastiness, especially if we’ve got a kid. So, if we’re terrified about what’s going on over their house when our child has to go over there 50% of the time, I hate the frickin court system, I… we’re going to be anxious, we’re going to be depressed, we’re going to be sad, we’re going to be scared. And we’re going to have to undo whatever they did with that kid over there when they come back home. So, it’s unrelenting. So, I just want to let you know it’s like situational depression. If it’s unrelenting, which in a lot of our cases has been turns into clinical depression because the body just finally goes, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do this. I cannot do this anymore.

So, I definitely wanted to talk about this because it’s, it’s not… Situational depression usually goes away. It is just like in it in a regular divorce, and yes, there are regular divorces. The divorce ends the one person goes their way the other person goes the other way. Or if they share kids, they’re at the center; they’re putting the kid first. That’s never going to happen with a narcissist ever. So, it’s kind of like this ongoing, just never-ending nastiness that just goes on and on and on and on and on until that child reaches 18. So, if you’ve got a little, little one, and you’re in the middle of this divorce, and you’re wondering why you’re not feeling good, and you’re wondering what is the word I’m looking for it, you’re not happy, or you’re not, you know, things don’t bring you joy, or you’re constantly, you know, looking over your shoulder, you know, what’s, what’s next. It’s because of their constant abuse. They are guys. They abuse the legal system; they abuse the legal system. And I’ve talked about this before. I’ve seen them drag people to court for 12-plus years. And it’s unrelenting. And they’re petty and immature, and they don’t want to let things go. And they use the kid as a pawn. And we’re focused on the well-being of the kid. So yeah, we’re going to have anxiety and depression. And it’s going to continue as long as they are allowed to continue to use the justice system as an abuse by proxy. And that’s exactly what this is.

So yes, we can have situational depression because yes, it’s normal to be sad and down when a relationship ends, it’s normal to be questioning when a relationship ends, it’s normal to… you know, not feel your best or not feel, you know, on top of your game, when relationships in, it’s like, 1000 times worse when it’s with an abuser, because they’ve lied, and they’re going to continue to lie, and they’re not going to leave you alone to heal. So, it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like, you bump your, you bump your leg up against a piece of furniture, right? Well, if that furniture gets moved goes away, you get rid of it, you don’t bump your leg up against it, and it doesn’t continually get hurt. With an abuser, it’s almost as if, okay, you bump your leg up against it, it starts to heal, it starts to scar over, you’ve kind of found a way to move around it. And suddenly, that piece of furniture is right where you’re bumping your leg again. I mean, that’s the best analogy I can make. And then it breaks open the scar, and then we’re bleeding. And then we’re you know, and it’s, it’s really important to sit down with a good trauma therapist, whether that’s CBT, DBT, EMDR, whatever, get with a good trauma therapist to work through the mistaken thoughts, and the mistaken beliefs that you are still processing every single time this person comes in, and bumps open that scar, and that’s what’s happening.

So, we never get a chance to heal. It’s like we start healing, and then it gets hit again, or we start healing, and then they do something else, or they we start healing, and then this, so yes, situational. Depression is temporary situational is temporary. So, like, you lose your job. You know, okay, it’s temporary. I can go find another job. This is depressing, but and I can find another form of employment, you know what I’m saying? Or you get a divorce. Relationships in Okay, well, that’s, you know, this is sad, and we’re just moving on into another phase of our life. But with these guys, it’s unrelenting. It’s like it never stops until legally they have to. They’re abusers, their stalkers.


A lot of times, they attract other minor narcissists to them. Like they get remarried. And now there’s a stepmom involved, and lo and behold, she’s an abuser, too. Isn’t that interesting? And so now the two of them are targeting you and your kid. So yes, if there is a reason why you are feeling the way you are feeling, and yes, we do go through that kind of pink cloud. At times when we’re like, Oh, thank God, I’m away from there, everything’s great. And then they do something, and then it just knocks us right off. Which is why I’m saying you’ve got to get with a good therapist.

So, here’s the signs and symptoms of depression. Hold on. This was from the Mayo Clinic. All right, signs and symptoms. Hold on. Okay. So, feelings of sadness, tearfulness, fearfulness, emptiness, or hopelessness. Well, yeah, we’ve just been through an abusive relationship. We’re going to feel that. Angry outbursts, irritability, or frustration, even over small matters. Okay, that is a part of PTSD as well. See, this is why I’m saying it’s like, and of course, you have society that’s like, Oh, get over it, which I’m just like, oh, please let me just give you my middle finger right now. Because you’re not just going to get over it. Thank you very much. Loss of interest in pleasure in most or all normal activities such as sex, hobbies or sports. Yes. We’re going to go through that sleep disturbance, including insomnia or sleeping too much. Yes, we’re going to go through that too. Tiredness or lack of energy, and even small tasks take extra effort, reduced appetite and weight loss, or increased cravings for comfort food and weight gain. Yeah, anxiety, agitation, or restlessness. Yes. Slowed thinking, speaking, or body movements. Yes. Feelings of worthlessness or guilt fixating on the past or self-blame. Absolutely. We’re going to do that. Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions, and remembering things. Yes, that is a part of depression, frequent or recurrent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicidal attempts, or suicide. Sometimes, yeah, unexplained physical problems, physical issues, you know, fibromyalgia headaches, backaches, you know, things like that.

So, it’s confusing because we do get all of those symptoms. Now, the key is, how do you know it’s clinically depressed? How do you know that it’s the difference between situational which lasts three to six months, and then clinically depressed? So clinically depressed is okay; the term clinical depression is used commonly in conversation to cover a wide range of mood disruptions, from momentary sadness to prolonged hopelessness. Clinical Depression is a medical term that is reserved for the more serious forms of that disorder, also called major depression. People who are clinically depressed experience a number of symptoms in addition to unremitting sadness or disinterest, such as sleep problems and appetite disturbances, and their thinking is so unrelentingly negative that their ability to carry out everyday functions is seriously impaired. And they cannot envision a bright future. And that’s every day, most of the day, for six months. So, if that’s if you’re going on like that, and it’s every day, most of the day, for three to six months, you might want to start looking at some sort of intervention

Okay, now, I’m not a huge fan of pharmaceuticals; you guys know that. So that’s why I’m saying getting to a talk therapist, getting to EMDR, getting into DBT, CBT. Something to help you process all of the thoughts, all of the feelings, all of the sadness, all of the hopelessness, all of the, you know, devalue and discard, and everything that’s going on is going to help. It’s so funny; people are like I don’t want to be talking about it, because it makes me think about it. Well, what are you doing anyway? You’re thinking about it? Anyway, you are. And even if you’re not consciously thinking about it, if you’re shoving it underneath the rug, your rug is going to get really lumpy and really vacuum. So, you don’t want to resist it, but you also don’t want to get into it. So, in other words, when you are feeling what you’re feeling, you are going to feel depressed, and you’re going to feel all of those symptoms that I just listed when this relationship finally breaks up. Because it’s an unhealthy relationship. So instead of resisting it or making yourself wrong, or whatever, you acknowledge it, yes, I am feeling sad. Yes, I am doubting myself. Yes, I am not wanting to do the dishes. Yes, I am second-guessing everything, you know, and though recognize that you do have power. They don’t. Yes, you are feeling awful right now, and work with a therapist so that you can process it through. Okay? If we resist it if we go no, no, no, no, no. I’ve got too much to do. I can’t. I got to No, no, no, I’m not going to think that I’m not going to be thinking about I’m not going to think of it. I’m not thinking about I’m not thinking about now. What am I doing?


You may tell yourself you’re not thinking about it, but you’re thinking about it, especially if you’re continuing to feel drained, continuing to feel depressed, continuing to feel down, not wanting to get up out of bed, not wanting to take care of yourself. That’s why it’s really important. So, some things that help with that talk therapy, like I said, EMDR is great. CBT is great for mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, getting your body moving. Honestly, I swear to God and all this holy, these Jack wagons want us dead they do. And what I find in almost all survivors of abuse is they hit a point where they just want to curl up into a ball and just never move. Just don’t come out of it. Just you know, and I’m just going to stay right here where it’s safe. And I don’t want to move, and I don’t want to exercise. I don’t want to, you know, go out, and I don’t want to talk to people, and I don’t. Well, that’s exactly what they want. That is exactly what those asshats want. They want us to curl up into a ball and die. They do. Don’t give them the satisfaction. So, exercise is hugely important. Get forcing yourself to get up. Get out go do things.

Go talk to trusted friends. If you cannot afford therapy, get the workbooks, get any and all of the workbooks and start working that go for walks, go for walks, seriously. Find people who are supportive. There are good support groups out there. Yes, there are abusers that like to troll those groups. But I think you can pretty much tell when it’s an abuser. At least I can. So, you know, you’ve got to do things to help yourself because they do want us to stop living. And they want us to stop feeling, and they want us to stop being happy. That makes them happy. If they’re, if we’re miserable, that makes them happy. So, the time for some sort of medical intervention is if you cannot, literally cannot get up out of bed, you’re having a hard time going to work, you’re not taking care of yourself, you’re not eating, you’re not sleeping, all of that stuff, then that’s when we need to do some sort of intervention, if exercise is not cutting it, if it’s not bringing up the dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, etc. If that’s not cutting it, then you’ve got to do something.


You know, you could try Eastern medicine. I’m a big fan of Eastern medicine, acupuncture, acupressure, you know, different herbs, etc. You could try that. If that doesn’t cut it, then you’re going to need to look at traditional Western medicine. The other thing that I think people don’t talk about is depression and anxiety; in leaving an abusive relationship tend to go hand in hand. Because it’s like we’re anxious all the time. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like we’re waiting for that shoe to drop. Or we’re waiting for, like, what’s next? What are they going to do now? Kind of think or, Oh, my God, is my little one okay. Over the ex’s house, are they safe? Are they being abused? Are they, you know, all these questions? And so, anxiety goes hand in hand with the depression. So, you’re going to want to work on literally both and what does that involve? That involves dealing with mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs. And or it’s like, okay, how do I calm myself How do I soothe myself? Yoga is great. Again, that’s a way to get moving. Tai Chi is great. Again, that’s a way to get moving. It’s not really stressful on the body.

And so, it’s, it’s acknowledging, yes, I am a nervous wreck. Yes, I am terrified when my child goes over to my ex’s house. Yes, I wish I could control what’s happening, and I can’t. And that’s terrifying to a lot of survivors because our control was taken away from us by an abuser. And now we’ve got a child where, okay, 50% of the time, I have no control. Great. So, it’s really important to work on yourself. That kid needs you. That kid needs you. Oh my god, that kid needs you. So, work on the self-esteem Workbook, CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker. And if you notice the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and depressive depression, major depression very similar hello. So um, yeah. So that, that is something to think about. And like I said, it’s really and we’re coming out of this addiction, we have been addicted to the abuser, not to the abuse, to the abuser, you know, and when we realized that that person was real, and we have to go on without who we thought they were. And when we start realizing no, they never loved us. No, they were never real. No, they really didn’t care what happened to us. They didn’t, you know, it’s devastating. It is devastating, which is why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist, please, please, please get with a good trauma therapist. If you’re having any of these symptoms, you got to do something; you can’t just do nothing; you got to do something. It is harder for it to resolve on its own. Okay, like if it was a healthy breakup, I would say okay, eventually, this will resolve on its own. This is not going to resolve on its own because it’s this continual waiting for the shoe to drop. So, I hope that explains the difference between clinical and situational.

So situational is like it’s a situation. It changes. You get better because the situation stops, or you go on to something else or whatever. Clinical is where it’s unrelenting. The thoughts are unrelenting, they’re negative, and you just cannot function. That is clinical depression. And we do have depression when we come out of these relationships, especially as we are healing and recognizing all of the betrayal, all of the lies, all of the nastiness, the duplicity, the cheating the smearing, you know, it is. it is depressing, it is so, and like I said, anxiety goes hand in hand with that. So, it’s not uncommon to come out of a nasty abusive relationship with both depression and anxiety. And like I said, though, I would prefer that natural things be done first. First, let’s see if we can resolve it with exercise diet. You know, drinking plenty of water, talking to good friends doing the books, etc. And then if none of that works and then look at Western medicine, so there is that. Oh, Kay, let’s dive into a question. Okay, let me make this big so I can read it.

Okay. Would they fight over things? When weight? Would they fight over? A fight over when things need to be done? Oh, would they fight over when things need to be done? Yes, absolutely. Like specific time for medication to be administered? Yes, absolutely. Because they’re control freaks. They want the power and control of when to do it. Meaning do they want? They want to change the times? Yeah. Because they need it on their terms? Absolutely. I cannot tell you the number of times I have had

a spouse have you know, a child that needed medication, and the other spouse will either intentionally sabotage or not give them medication at all, period. Oh, they don’t need it. You know, my no child of mine needs therapy, no child of mine needs antihistamines, no child, because they’re crazy. Let’s just be, let’s just be clear here. They’re crazy. And they’re control freaks. And if they can’t deny the medication because they get in trouble with the court, then they will control when the medication is trying to be given. Because it’s all about power and control. They are so insane. I mean, it’s just, it’s incomprehensible. Because when you think of the kid, when I think of a kid, it’s like what is in the child’s best interest. They don’t care. What’s in the child’s best interest, what they want, is to show you that they are in control and charge, and you have no control over what they do. And that they are the God as far as giving medication is concerned. Absolutely. They do that way book. Absolutely. They do that. So yeah, it is it illegal? No, because, you know, you, I mean, proving that they’re not getting the medication on time, only if you have them in text or an email, you know, saying, basically, Screw you, I’m not going to do this medication at this time, or screw you, I’m not going to do this medication at all. And then even at that, I’ve seen judges just, you know, who don’t want to do it. And they just ignore that because they don’t know what they’re doing. And they don’t consider that part of the abuse. Okay, hello. That’s part of the abuse. Let’s be clear. So, messing with the kid’s medication. Absolutely. That is abusive. That is that is abusive, but trying to get the court system to see that is like pulling teeth because they’re like, Oh, well, an hour or two won’t matter. And I’m like, Oh my God, that’s not what this is about. You stupid…. Don’t even get me started. Oh my god, seriously, that judges need to be educated in what is abuse and how these guys think, and what they do. I’m sorry, they just do it. Just Oh my God. Don’t get me started. Too late. Okay. Yes, they do that. They want the power in the control and randomly, even if it’s hurtful, yes. They don’t care if the child is not the number one issue. I think they get off on that. Yes, like in Munchausen by proxy. Yeah. I feel like my aunt took my cousin’s disabilities as a chance to gain more attention for all of the hard work she put in. Meanwhile, she overmedicated and then used the disability to have abusive control 110%. Absolutely it remember they are attracted to positions of power. So, in that case, it would be over a child over somebody who’s disabled. Oh my god, you know, over somebody who maybe has dementia, the elderly, that kind of thing. I see so much narcissistic abuse in those areas. Because they’re attracted to that it’s they’re ultimately powerful because the person can’t say anything because they’re either a minor or they’re disabled. And they can’t say anything. Or they’re diminished. They have dementia, and they can’t say anything. So, it’s all about power and control for them. Yes, Munchausen by proxy, happens all the time. And yes, they do mess with medications. It’s crazy. They do. I… there’s been cases of the narcissistic parent taking the medication that was supposed to go to the kid and using it to get high.

So yeah, they’re just they’re jacked like it’s so in cases like that. The only thing you can do would be to call if they’re an adult, you call Adult Protective Services, which is just about as useless as child protective services. But that’s really the only thing you can do.


I mean, you got to get evidence that there’s abuse going on. You’ve got to get evidence that they’re going against the court order. And even if that, if you get a judge, that’s a frickin moron, they’re not going to do anything about it, which is so angering to me. It just it makes me angry. It’s like, why are you in this court system? If you’re not going to enforce the what’s in the what’s in the divorce decree? Why are you even hearing this case? If you’re a narcissist yourself, and you’re just going to agree with the abuser, and you don’t consider the things they’re doing abuse because those were abuse? They’re not trained, they have zero training in abuse, they have zero training and how these Jack wagons think or do or whatever. I mean, I’ve seen prosecutors that had more savvy knowledge of psychology than judges. So don’t get me started. Too late. I know. Oh, my God. Anyway, there, that is all right.

Next question. Chris, can you please suggest tips to end cognitive dissonance and break a trauma bond with a parental figure once and for all? I am so sick of the constant push-pull dynamic. Okay. So again, I would recommend getting with a trauma therapist to help you. Cognitive dissonance is really the trauma bond is really hard to break it is because it’s that fear. It’s that obligation. And it’s that guilt. And so, when incoming information does not match what we want to believe, boy, howdy, that inner child takes over and kicks out the incoming information. No, no, no, no, no, mom and dad are really good. Nope, they’ve got my back. Nope, everything’s fine. No, it’s okay. Oh, it’s all good. So, I talked about that in what’s wrong with your dad. Because my dad was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And so, it was my mom. But anyway, I talked about it in here. And the really, the way to break it is you’ve got to write it out. You write out every single thing that that person has done to you. And you talk it over with a good trauma therapist because, like, Okay, so for example, so I have clients that do that, especially with parental units, it’s like when the when the parent was the abuser. It’s really hard because that inner child so badly wants to be loved and accepted and taken care of and treated the way they should have been that the inner child suddenly takes over. And the next thing we know, we’re going over to their house to have Sunday dinner even though we know it’s going to end in a complete knockdown drag-out fight. So Inner Child Workbook, Catherine Taylor, that’s going to help you if you don’t like the Catherine Taylor one, there is the Lucia Cappacchione one, or the Catherine Taylor one is more experiential. So, the Catherine Taylor one goes through each developmental age. And she has you do things like, you know, rock yourself as a baby. How does that feel? Or spread out a blanket or something on the ground, grab some applesauce, slather it in your hair. I personally enjoyed that. That was fun. So obviously, nothing happened as a toddler. But then going into the young child, you know, six to 10, Oh, that’s when things started getting weird. And that’s when things started popping up. So, it’s experiential. And I really liked I really like experiential things because I find that it helps me go through, and you know, work things out. The Luccia Cappachione one is you write with your non-dominant hand the child’s stuff. And with your dominant hand, you write the adult stuff. And that’s another great way to get it out. It’s just coming at it from different angles. So, I would say the Inner Child Workbook, either by Catherine Taylor or Lucia Cappacchione. Get with a good trauma therapist write out everything they did to write it out. Because isn’t it funny how we suddenly like deer in the headlight and we blank out? dissociate? We blank out. We’re like, oh, no, it’s fine. I’m going over for Sunday dinner. No, everything’s great. No, mom and dad love me. No, they’ve got my back. Oh, it’s going to be different this time. What? No, it’s not. And breaking that bond is really important, especially if the parent parental units. I like to call them parental units because they’re not parents. I’ll tell you that much. are abusive, verbally abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, financially abusive, religiously abusive, you name it abusive. No, thank you. So, write it out so that you can see it, and work with a trauma therapist CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker, start working in regard to your parents. Get the Inner Child Workbook in regard to your parents.


Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, start working on your self-esteem people who love themselves do not put up with that at all, period. I mean, when I was in my young 20s, I literally it’s like I had to leave and get out of the near vicinity because if I was anywhere near there, they would harangue me to come visit and come stay and come to that I finally was like, I need to be 1000 plus miles away. So, I did, you know, and that was the start of my healing I mean, it would have been, I’m sure if I’d had better self-esteem at the time, I probably could have stood up and said no, but at that time I wasn’t that strong. So, you know, self-esteem helps because it helps us break that codependency that need to take care of Disease to Please Harriet Breaker read it great book and breaking that codependency, being able to stand up for yourself and say no and mean it and not feel guilty. So anytime anyone makes us feel fearful, obligated, or guilty, they’re toxic. They’re toxic. You’re dealing with somebody toxic who is manipulative. So, the best way to break that is to write out everything that happened to you and have a chat with the inner child. When I was six, this happened. Okay, six-year-old me, Listen, I love you. I got your back. We don’t need mom and dad anymore. We need us. They’re never going to be the parent that we wanted and needed. And that boy, howdy, that hits a lot of people right in the gut. When they finally realize it’s like, oh, my parent is never going to love me, my parent is never going to accept me, my parent is never going to be the parent I need it. You know, and we ourselves have to become the parent that we wanted and needed. You have to reparent yourself. And that is where the self-esteem stuff comes in. That is where the mirror work comes in. So, when you’re looking in the mirror, and you’re saying hi, good to see you have a great day, that is you re parenting you because that’s what a good parent does when they see their child. Okay. So yeah, this is going to sound silly, but with Moana, my dog, you know, we’ve been working with her. She’s now leash trained, which is awesome. And we finally got her to sleep on the bed. And frankly, I cannot wait for her to wake up in the morning. I really can’t. I don’t have kids. I have a dog. So, when my dog wakes up in the morning, I’m like, Hi. Good to see you. How are you doing? Did you sleep? Good? You know, that’s what parents do to kids, too. I did that to all my nieces and nephews. I’m sure they think I’m very bizarre, but they have a good sense of self-esteem. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s good parents acknowledge and validate their kids when they see them first thing in the morning. Okay. We need to start doing that for ourselves. Because honestly, how many of us wake up in the morning and go, Oh, God, today is going to suck. And then it does. Because we’ve primed our subconscious. It’s going to be a rotten day and why do we do that? Well, where did we learn from? My dad was the one that was constantly like, Oh, this is going to be awful. This is going to be terrible. Oh, I’m dreading this day, blah, blah, blah, every day. Every day of his miserable life. And then he couldn’t understand why nobody wanted to be around him. Go figure. So, we need to reparent ourselves, say hello to ourselves the way that we wanted to and needed to when we were kids. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day, I give you permission to stand up for yourself.


Do you see where I’m going. You give yourself permission to work on whatever it is you need to work on for you and be standing up for yourself. Not falling back into the cognitive dissonance not falling back into the fog. Not going back to mom and dad because that’s never going to give you what you need. I wish it would but it’s not going to. So that is the best way to break that. Okay.

Can depression flare up when going through a medical event? Oh, hell yeah. I had a very painful procedure last week and was verbally abused by a nurse. Oh, bunny, I’m sorry. And now I feel down and scared. Okay, here’s how you’re going to take your power back. I do not put up with nurses that are snarky, nasty, vicious, or doctors Thank you very much. I would report her. Absolutely. Or him, him or her, report them, report them, document it, report them to the board of your state and to the hospital and to the doctor and let them know what they said and what they did and how it made you feel. And okay, they may or may not do anything about it. But at least you’ve said your piece. And I think that is important. And I think for a lot of us, especially with the medical community. There’s a lot of abusers in that field. There’s a lot of abusers in my field. It makes me very angry. Did I mention that? There’s a lot of abusers because it’s a position of power. And they’re if they’re disordered, they’re jaded to the fear that a patient is going through with a very painful procedure. You know, it’s like the best doctors; the best nurses are not nurses. Hello. They’re compassionate. And they are soothing. So, like when I had to have my surgery done when I broke my wrist. Motorcycle accident, long story anyway, when I broke my wrist, my surgeon was great. He was like, here’s what’s going to happen. Here’s what we’re going to do. You’re fine. Everything’s good. I’ll see you in a couple of hours. I was like, okay, you know, it was very comforting, you know? So, when we’re going through something scary our inner child often takes over and we’re terrified, and we need to be comforted. And I think good surgeons and good nurses recognize that bad ones, nurses take advantage of that, and are snarky and nasty and mean and vicious and everything else. And yeah, there’s a lot of them out there. I’ve got several clients that have had trauma because of the medical field. So they weren’t necessarily in an abusive relationship, but they had some procedure done in the hospital, and they were abused by orderlies, nurses, doctors, etc. So yeah, they walk among us they do. My recommendation would be to file a complaint, I would not tolerate that I would absolutely not put up with that. That’s you are not powerless, you can complain. And I would document it out. And I would let the doctor know, I would let the hospital know and I would file a complaint with the board. So, there it is there, is that. Because Ain’t nobody got time to be disappointed to be abused like that. So yeah, and it can come from a medical event? You absolutely bet.

Okay, um, because there is more recognition of mental illness. Do you? Do you foresee or are you starting to see narcissists trying to use this as an excuse for their behavior? More than they were before? And will they try. You’re not wrong? Yeah. And there’s been several sites popping up recently. Kim Saeed has mentioned this a lot, and so has Shahida Arabi, that there’s these places that are going Oh, poor, poor Narcissists, you know, they can change and this that the other thing, and I’m sitting here going, No, they cannot. And they do not. And they will not. And if you go back to them, the abuse is going to be worse. The love bombing will be shorter, and the abuse will be longer. So yeah.Yeah, they absolutely are trying to use psychology. That’s what they do. I’m always very suspicious of people who start doing psychobabble to me, and they’re not a psychologist or a counselor or a psychiatrist. It’s like, this is not your realm of expertise. Why are you talking like that? Yeah, not buying it. So yeah, they absolutely do. They absolutely do. And they do try to pull, you know, oh, I was abused as a child. Okay, well, so we’re the rest of us. And none of us act like Jack wagons. Go have a nice day. Bye. Have a nice day. I mean, go pound sand. So yeah, they tried to do the whole Oh, I have PTSD. And if you want a really great example of that, listen to how a certain director who directed the Avengers behaved after his behavior was pointed out. I think you guys know who I’m talking about. So, yeah, and then claimed that it was PTSD. And I’m just like, No, I don’t think so. So yeah, they will they absolutely try to use it. They absolutely try to, you know, pretend to be the victim because that’s what they do. They’re good at being the victim. So yeah, so absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. And they’ve done it in the past, too. This is nothing new. But I have noticed recently it’s been more pronounced. So yeah.

Um, a lot of people here in India seem to think that suicides can always be prevented with counseling No. Are they right? Or are they being delusional? No, well, suicides, it depends on what’s going on, you know, there’s a lot… wanting to end your life is as varied as anything else in the mental health field. Sometimes it can be helped and sometimes, it can be prevented, and sometimes it cannot. And it’s better to try to prevent it, you know, with counseling and therapy and medication if that’s what’s needed, you know, that kind of thing. There…no, it, if somebody is really truly wanting to end their lives, they’ll do it. Therapy or no therapy. And I’m going to talk about this more in February. There’s… I definitely want to talk about abusers and how they use that to manipulate and control. But the other thing of it is, too, is that when people are that depressed like there’s no abuse, there’s no they’re not abusers. They’re depressed, and they cannot see your way out. Their brains are thinking so negatively that they literally think that’s the only way to feel better. Okay, and I can totally relate because when I was in high school, probably a little younger. I felt totally suicidal living in my parent’s house because my dad was an abuser. He was abusing me, and my mom was just turning a blind eye. So, you know, and I was just kind of like, this is the only way out, oh my god, this is the only way out, and then it was kind of like, I went outside. I sat on this on the slide. I looked up at the stars and the moon, and I kind of went; No, no, no, no, no, no.There’s another way. There’s another way. And what saved me, ironically, was Robin Williams. And what did he end up doing? Killing himself. Go figure. But his comedy is what kept me hanging on. Because it was like, as long as I can laugh, as long as I can find that, I’m going to survive. And that’s what I told myself, and I listened to Monty Python. I listened to Robin Williams, I listened to Steve Martin. I listened to, you know, any comedy album I could get my hands on so that I could keep those endorphins, dopamine, serotonin. I didn’t even know I was doing that. But so that I could feel good in the middle of being abused. And isn’t it funny? My dad hated all those people. So, like, go figure.

So um, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not necessarily that they want to end themselves. They want to end the pain. And finding the source of pain is really going to be helpful and giving them hope, real hope, like look, you do have power look, you can affect change on you. Can’t affect change on other people, but you can affect change on you, can be helpful. Does it help in every case? Do people go on to suicide? Complete suicide? Yeah, they do. And is it brain chemistry? Possibly, you know, is it situational? Possibly, you know, so you do everything you can to help you do everything you can to keep that from happening. So, and again, and this was something that came up recently interesting, you mentioned this, this is something that came up recently with a client of mine, they were like, you know, dealing with an abuser, and then they expressed suicidal thoughts, and I stopped, and I went, who do you really want to kill, and they laughed, it was that recognition laugh. And she was like. I want to kill him so badly. That’s who you want to kill. It’s not you. And I don’t recommend killing him, either. But, you know, it’s an expression, a lot of times of hopelessness and pain and anger. And really, it’s like, the real person they want to kill is the abuser or whoever is causing the problem. And it’s not really that they want to kill them. They just want it to stop. So, getting to the root of it, getting to the root of it. And so, then we went over a safety plan and discussed, you know, all right, do you know, are you serious about this? Do you have…..? No, no, no, no, no, no. And thank you for helping me realize this is what I really want. But no, I don’t really want that. But yeah, that’s why I’m so angry, and then accessing the anger and dealing with the depression and the sadness and the hurt and the betrayal underneath. That was very healing, and that helps them, so you got to have a good therapist that kind of understands what’s driving the suicidal thoughts, you know, what’s driving the ideation? If you’ve got a therapist, that’s just like, Uh huh, oh, there’ll be 100,000 million dollars. They’re not going to help you need a therapist, that’s going to ask the right questions and get to the heart of it. So there that is. Okay, hope that answered the question. Um, I mean, it doesn’t always help you got to have the right therapist and like I said, if there’s brain chemistry going on that’s got to be addressed.


So there that is why does being unliked make me feel unsafe? Oh, you are not alone. So, codependency, let’s talk about codependency. Codependency is when we realize as a kid that we have to be accepted, liked, or whatever by our caregivers in order to survive. So, codependency happens when we start caretaking, and then they give us food or they give shelter or they give us clothes or they give us whatever, so yeah, it does feel dangerous. It absolutely does. And so, the counter to that is self-esteem. Work on the codependency with the Disease to Please by Harriet Breaker work on the self-esteem with Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Okay. So, as we start recognizing our own worth, and we start validating ourselves, we don’t need somebody else to like us. We need to like us. We need to like us. Not everybody is going to like us guys not to trust me. Not everybody is going to like us. And if we live or fall on, you know, whether somebody likes us or not, we’re going to be miserable all our lives. So, you’ve got to love yourself. You got to like yourself, you got to work on that self-esteem. You got to work on that, hey, I have value, and I have worth, and if this person doesn’t like me, their loss you know, so yeah, that’s why it feels so dangerous is because our survival literally dependent on whoever we had the codependent relationship with. Not abusing us, keeping us safe, giving us food, water, shelter, clothing, etc. That’s why it feels so dangerous. Okay, my loves I am I think, done Hold on. Let me just double-check. Is that the last one? That is the last one, all right. Bye, guys. I am done, you guys. Have a great week. Take good care of yourselves. Bye


If you’re interested in donating to Patreon, I am back on Patreon because YouTube is being stupid; I think that is it.  Thank you to my sponsor Better Help, and I will talk to you next week. Have a great week, guys

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about it. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or internationally, they will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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