We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

01-23-2022 Warning Signs and Red Flags
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris talks about the warning signs of abuse from dating all the way through to the devalue and discard.

Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:01

Okay, we’re coming into Valentine’s Day. So, something that I’ve heard several of my clients say recently, they’ve come out of an abusive relationship, and they’re lonely. And so, they want to get right back into dating. And I tell them, “Don’t do it. Don’t do it. It’s don’t do it. It’s not safe. Don’t do it. So, here’s the deal. When we come out of an abusive relationship, we’ve been groomed to Oh, no, I don’t see the pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room up Nope. I don’t hear the abuse. Oh, no, I don’t feel the abuse. Oh, no, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, we’ve been groomed to accept abnormal as normal. Okay, and so I have clients that get out of an abusive relationship, oh, but I, I need the sex. No, you don’t. You’re using it as a distraction stop, you need to work on you, you need to fix you, you need to, you know, take the blinders off, you need to understand what to look for. Because right now, if you go back out into that dating pool, you’re going to… what you’re going to do is you’re going to find another abuser and the abuser is going to be as bad or worse. Because that’s what we do. If we don’t work on ourselves, we keep trying to fix family of origin over here with romantic partner over there, that kind of sort of reminds us of the person that we had the most difficult relationship with. So, half of a doodoo sandwich, half of a doodoo sandwich, total doodoo sandwich, y’all don’t want to do that.

So, the reason I want to talk about behaviors is because everybody’s on a different journey here. So, some people are just coming out of the abuse, other people have been out of the abuse for a while. So, I want to do kind of a refresher for those of you who have been out for a while this is going to be a refresher, for those of you who have just come out of a relationship, this is going to probably be either new information or freshly remembered information.

So alright, so the warning signs, the warning signs and the red flags. Nobody talks about these, like, seriously, how many of us had parents that sat us down? And course because all of our families were like family of origin that was messed up. Hello, nobody sat us down and said, here’s what to watch out for. Here’s what you should be aware of, here’s what you should be careful of, here’s what should be kind of a ding, ding, ding, red flag. You know, that kind of thing. They didn’t, they just didn’t, because they were the ones that were doing the abnormal behavior, and didn’t want us to see the abnormal behaviors being abnormal. How many times have family of origin said, Oh, every family, every family does this. Every family screams and yells and calls names and hits and this that and the other thing. No, not every family does. Thank you, Jesus, Buddha, Buffababa, whoever is up there. You know what I’m saying? So, they try to normalize the abnormal and we’ve got to recognize the abnormal for the abnormal. So, let’s start…

Way back Machine. Let’s start with the dating. What do you need to be looking for when you are dating? And next week, I’m telling you right now, I want to do a continuation of this. And I want to talk about what does what does each of the behaviors in DSM five that describes each of the disorders? What do those look like? And I’m going to go through and I’m going to tell you exactly what each one of those look like. So, we’ll do that next week. I don’t think I’m gonna have time this week. All right, so let’s talk about dating. All right, first of all, listen to me now, believe me later. I cannot say this strong enough. Predators are on dating sites. I’m going to say that, again, predators are on dating sites. If you’re coming out of an abusive relationship, and you have not worked on the family of origin because you’re afraid, you don’t want to feel it, you’d rather just sweep it under the carpet, etc, etc, etc. I can guarantee you your picker is broken and you are going to go right back into a worse situation. You’re going to find another abuser. Why? Because your inner child is the one making the choices not adult you. So, you’ve got to work on you first. Seriously, fix your picker, fix, fix you fix your inner child help your inner child to grow up and feel safe and comfortable and not having to work out this with that. So, dating, what abusers do is they, they mirror okay? Now you’re going to have similarities. You know, if you’re in a healthy relationship, there’s going to be some similarities, like you’re gonna like a lot of the things they do, but not everything that they do. But with an abuser. What they do is they go and they find somebody online, they see what they like, Oh, I love that too. Oh, you like to ice skate? I like to ice I’m telling you. Disney is fantastic for, you know, psychological stuff. It’s like I could kiss the writer. So Princess Ana and Hans the prince in Frozen, great example of gaslighting, lying, mirroring. You know, flipping the script, you know, the mask slipping the whole thing. You watch that and you’re just like, oh, yeah, I dated one of those. Oh, heck, oh, my goodness, you know. So, they, what they do is they mirror they mirror, they mirror, they mirror, and they figure out who we are. So, if you’re on a date, and this person is liking everything that you like, like everything that you like, that should be a red flag, not everybody you know, you’re not gonna find somebody that’s going to match you. 110% So, you know, there’s going to be some differences. But with an abuser. It’s like it’s this mirroring, mirroring, mirroring, mirroring. Oh, you like this? I like this. You like that? I like that you like…. I like it too. Oh, look, you know, like, look how like we are? Oh, We’re soulmates. That’s the other thing. They’ll say. We’re soulmates. We’re twin flames, we’re, we’re meant to be we’re you know, and then in the dating part, they get, what’s the word I’m looking for. They want to be with us all the time. So, what they’re doing is, is they’re mirroring, mirroring, mirroring. And if you’re on a date with one of these types, these disordered types, they’re going to do one of two things, and you need to pay attention to both. They are either one end of the spectrum or the other, they are either going to not give a damn what you’re saying and be very disinterested in what you’re saying, which is a huge red flag. Okay, so like I was reading one of the articles that I got off of Psychology Today, the person was talking about how they didn’t even notice that they hadn’t ordered until the check came. Because they were so busy talking about themselves. Now that would more than likely be a grandiose narcissist. So, me, me, me, I, I, I more my genitals, right? So, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, don’t care what you have to say. If you say something, they will somehow get it back to them and keep talking about them. And you cannot get a word in edgewise.

Kris Godinez  07:54

That is a huge red flag, not being able to get a word in edgewise or their absolute disinterest in what you have to say, like they don’t care. Like what you have to say is not important. Because to them, it’s not, because it’s not about them. Now, if you’re talking about how fabulous they are, they’re all ears. But if you’re, you know, trying to tell them who you are and what you like, they ignore it, they immediately… like you get one sentence out and they immediately turn it back to them. That’s a narcissist, guys! In a healthy communication, it’s given take, you know, it’s like you talk, I talk, you talk, I talk, you talk I talk.

Now, the other thing that they will do, so either they ignore, you completely keep talking, or they get you and they make you think that they are interested in everything you have to say and they make you do the majority of the talking about you like personal stuff, like you know who you’ve dated, tell me about your family, you know, like really, they’re mining you for information is basically what they’re doing. They’ll either not give a damn what you’re saying and want to hear about them and want to hear their own voice. Or they will pump, pump, pump, pump, pump for information, trying to get information on who you are, what you like, what are your weaknesses, where can I work my way in, that’s what they’re looking for. So, okay, those are red flags when you’re dating. You don’t want to give up too much personal information, especially, you know, on a first date.

So, something else to watch out for on a first day is someone who comes in and starts telling you how crazy and horrible all of their exes are. That’s a huge red flag. ginormous because you wouldn’t do that. I mean, even if your ex was crazy and horrible. You wouldn’t do that on a first date. But let me tell you who does disordered people because they’re trying to get your sympathy. They’re trying to get you to feel sorry for them. They’re trying to get you to do the whole Oh, I would treat you better than that, you know, it kinda reminds me of the little games on the telephone. So, like, you know, if you’re on the telephone Good Lord have dated myself on the phone! So like if you’re, if you’re playing like a, you know, Words with Friends or something, and they have those ads for those things, and the ads are always like, can you do better? You know, that kind of thing? And that’s what the Narcissus does, can you do better than my X? You know, and that’s the challenge, that’s what they’re trying to get you to buy into is that, oh, the x was so horrible and so crazy. And I am this innocent little victim, and I just want to be loved, and bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. And of course, if you haven’t worked on the family of origin and the codependency wanting to take care of, you’re going to fall right into that. So, they do that as well. So, they start bad mouthing the ex, like literally on the first date, first or second date, you know, and honestly, that is not something that you would even talk about until you were a little further along, and you were sharing a little more deeply and, and you wouldn’t be like, Oh, my ex is so crazy, you would just be like, it didn’t work out. It was you know, not good, you know, that kind of thing. And then, you know, it wouldn’t be a topic of conversation over and over and over again, is what I’m trying to say. But for narcissists or an abuser, it would be so Okay, so you’re dating, and it’s all about them, or they could care less about you or they’re mining you for information.

Now. Let’s move on a little bit. So, you’ve been dating for a while now they want to spend every single waking moment with you. Why? Well, you would assume it’s because oh my gosh, we like each other so much. It is just so cool. And we just want to be around each other. That’s what they want you to think what they’re doing is they’re getting the oxytocin going. Oxytocin is the bonding chemical it bonds couples together, it bonds mommies to babies. It is the bonding chemical. So, they’re getting the oxytocin going so that when you’re not with them, your body starts producing more oxytocin, and it makes you crave being with that person to bond with them, which is also why they do the stonewalling that comes later.

But let’s talk about that for a moment, shall we? So, they do the stonewalling because they know that after they’ve done the love bombing, and this is love bombing hello, love bombing, that’s not normal, healthy, normal. People don’t love bombing. They acknowledge that they like the person for sure for sure. But they do not spend every single waking moment with them, nor do they over the top gifts, flowers trips, except I mean, extravagant. So, what they’re trying to do is they’re trying to, what’s the word I’m looking for? Well, they’re trying to get the oxytocin going, but they’re also trying to get you hooked. So, they will you know, especially if they mine you for information about your family or if your family was neglectful, if your family was abusive, in the beginning, what they’ll do is they’ll you know, shower you with attention, shower, you with gifts, shower, you with trips, shower, you with sex shower, you know, whatever it takes to get you hooked. And so, they’re getting that oxytocin going. So, what happens paradoxically is, is when they Stonewall eventually later on in the in the relationship which they will do, what they will do is they leave, they Stonewall you, they give you the cold shoulder, your body starts producing oxytocin like nobody’s business in order to try to re bond with them. And it does feel like withdrawal, ‘cuz it is, and they do that on purpose. Let us be clear about this. Every single thing one of these abusers does is with malice aforethought. Totally. It’s not a Oops, I did it. So, okay, we’re gonna get to the excuse making in a minute. So, um, which is what we do, so don’t do that. That’s a bad thing. So, okay, so the oxytocin is part of the love bombing. So, the love bombing, love bombing, loving, wanting to be with you 24/7 wanting to have sex all the time, wanting to you know, do these over the top, outrageous, you know, romantic things that they think you want. And then as soon as they get you, I’m not kidding you the number of times I’ve had clients tell me as soon as the wedding ring came on, as soon as the ceremony was over, all dried up, all dried up, it completely dried up. So, they pretended to be Mr. or Mrs. Wonderful. Until legally they gotcha. You know, and then as soon as the ceremony was over, no sex, no vacations, no romantic stuff, no talking no nothing.

Kris Godinez  14:47

So this is what they do. And and, and it’s confusing to survivors of abuse of family of origin because we’ve been groomed to, to not pay attention to this stuff, to not see the abuse to not see the disorder don’t see the dysfunction. And when they start mirroring and giving us everything that we thought we wanted, oh my God, that’s intoxicating! That is, and that’s their intent. That’s the love bombing. And then of course, when the hooks come in, and they gotcha, I can’t tell you the number of people male and female, because both male narcissists and female narcissists and male borderlines, female borderlines if they’re malignant do this, you know, as soon as they gotcha, then the mask slips and the devalue starts so they start criticizing so all of the things that they said they loved you for your laughter, your intelligence, your outgoingness, your fun, your this, your that, they start criticizing, and at the same time, they start isolating you.

Oh, jealousy. Oh, let’s talk about that, shall we? So, you start dating one of these people and you’re either close to getting married or you, you’re married. Now the weird jealousy stuff starts well, I don’t like you hanging out with your female friends or your male friends or your whatever friends they don’t like you’re hanging out with friends, period. And then what they start doing depending on whether they’re overt or covert, is they start isolating, and they don’t want you hanging out with your friends. They don’t want you doing a guys night out. They don’t want you doing a girls night out. They don’t want you hanging out with your coworkers. They don’t want… they start getting jealous of your job. You know, I mean, this, these are things that they do and we don’t realize it until it is too late or almost too late. Because they’re insidious about it. And they start gaslighting, gaslighting, gaslight they’re pushing the envelope, are you going to believe my lie? Let’s see how far I can push this lie. And so, you start catching up in little lies, and then they deny it. That’s gaslighting. Oh, I never said that. That never happened, you misheard me. Really, you know, or, as I talked about last week, they cheat like nobody’s business, they’ve got a harem. They’ve got a whole bunch of people out there just waiting to stroke their ego, and other things. But the point being is, they’ve got a whole harem out there. And they’re cheating. And yet, they’re accusing you of cheating. So, listen to me now, believe me later, if you are with somebody dating them or married to them, and they’re accusing you of cheating. And you know, you’re not like it’s not your thing. And that’s clear, it’s not your thing. That’s when you really kind of got to start looking and kind of go wait a minute, because they’re projecting. So, this is what abusers do they project and they project what either they are thinking of doing or what they are actually doing.

So okay, verbal abuse, verbal abuse is domestic violence, verbal abuse is abuse, they will be petty they will be what’s the word I’m looking for miserly. So, like in the beginning, the love bombing, oh, you know, great dinners and going out and doing this, that the other thing, and then suddenly, not only do they not want to spend their money, they don’t want you spending your money. And by the way, your money had better be in a joint account, and they will keep track of every single cent. Danger Will Robinson! Danger! Danger! Danger! Yeah, that’s what they do. Because they’re trying to make sure that you cannot get away from them, and that they have control over the money. So okay, let’s back up. I want to get to the psychology today. Good lord. See, I knew this was going to be a two parter.

Okay, so signs of verbal emotional abuse, monitoring and controlling a person’s behaviors, such as who they spend time with, or how they spend their money. I just talked about that. So, they will honestly make sure like, if you’re out with your friends, they’ll be texting you the whole time. So, you can’t even enjoy yourself. Well, what are you talking about? Where are you? What are you doing? What are you What are you saying, Da, da, da, da, da… you know, and then what they’ll do is they’ll start poisoning your mind about your family and your friends. Because the family and the friends see the abuser for what they are. And they don’t like that. So, they start telling the target of abuse that the family and the friends are evil and this and that and, you know, want them and bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, no, it’s because the family and the friends see the abuser for what they are. So, if you’ve got good family and good friends, and this person you’re dating is suddenly telling you that they’re not good for you when you know that they are. That’s a huge red flag because they’re trying to isolate you, because abuse happens in a more efficient way if the target of abuse is isolated because now the abuser has got them to themselves. They have their total attention and there is no one for the target of abuse to turn to you because they have alienated everybody around them on behalf of the abuser. That’s a huge red flag guys! If you’ve got good friends and good family and they’ve they’re actions show you that they’re good and actions and words match. And this person is trying to get rid of them. Get rid of the abuser. So, isolation, that’s what they do. So, they monitor and control the person’s behavior, who they spend time with how much time they’re constantly texting, constantly calling, constantly interfering, not allowing you to go hang out with your friends, whatever.

They threaten your safety, property, or loved ones. So, you know, you better get home, or I’m going to, you know, kill your dog or something, you know, it’s like they do little threats, or I’m going to leave, that’s another thing they love. So, remember, the most common pairing is a narcissist with a borderline. So, they play on the borderline’s fear of abandonment. And so, you know, if you don’t do what I want, I’m going to leave you which sends a borderline into absolute abject terror, terrorizing them, that’s what they do. And so, they use the I’m gonna leave you threat or I’m going to kill myself threat. That’s the other thing that they do. Um, okay, hold on, I’m isolating the person’s family, friends or acquaintances, demeaning shaming, and humiliating a person now that usually comes later on in the devalue and discard phase.

So they start enjoying putting you down. They shame you, you know, so like, for example, let’s say that you do enjoy sex, and you guys did have a good sexual relationship before the marriage, but then you get married, and then suddenly, they’re like, ah, you know, you’re a slut, you’re a whore because you want sex or you’re a player because you want sex. They’re shaming you for normal, healthy sexual life. So that is something that abusers do. You don’t want to get involved with that if somebody starts shaming you for wanting a normal sexual life, then you need to get rid of them. They are the ones that need to go bye. So, they start blaming, shaming, guilting, demeaning putting down humiliating doing things in public, they are extremely jealous, they do accusations, they’re paranoid, but they’re talking about themselves because this is what they are either doing or what they are thinking of doing. Remember they project.

Criticism, constant, unrelenting criticism, so it’s like you never can do anything, right. You cooked the eggs wrong; you are driving wrong, you are wearing the wrong things when in the past, they loved your cooking, they loved your driving they loved… so everything they said that they loved about you is now been turned on its head. This is where cognitive dissonance is coming in with all the all of the

Kris Godinez  22:40

gaslighting. So, you know, I never said that. That never happened. You misunderstood me. You misheard me….BS! No, I did not misunderstand you. So, they start turning everything on its head. So, in the love bombing phase, everything that they loved about you is now everything they hate about you. So let us be clear, abusers do not feel, abusers cannot feel, they can mimic it. Absolutely! Psychopath Hello! They can mimic it, but they don’t feel it. And they are hateful and jealous. When they cannot get what we have through osmosis… once they realize that they are never going to feel the joy that we feel. That’s when they start doing the devalue in the discard. And that’s when they start trying to kill us, either literally, or emotionally or physically or whatever.

And one of the questions I got was, does emotional abuse lead to physical abuse? Yes, it does. Because what they do is they push the envelope, push the envelope, push the envelope, see how much they can get away with. And it takes more and more and more, the more psychopathic they are, it takes more and more and more to get the jollies. And eventually, yeah, they will start doing physical violence because it’s not giving them the reaction or the, the narcissistic supply that they so desperately need.

Ridicule or teasing but mean. And the criticism is not constructive. It’s just a criticism. It’s like, it’s like a personal attack. It’s not like, it’s not like, here, let me show you how to do this better. Or gee, maybe this would work or you know, whatever. It’s always like, well, I don’t like it because of you. You gun, you, you, you, you, you that’s what they do.

They make making acceptance or care conditional. So, I’ll love you, if you do this, oh, this is where… Oh, so in a few cases that I’ve had the target of abuse was told that if they did not engage in something they did not want to do so a threesome, orgy, you know something that they would not otherwise engage in that they would not love them and so they were so desperate to be loved. They engaged in it, okay, and then the person filmed it and tried to use it against them. So, you know, if somebody’s getting you to try to do something that you really truly don’t want to do. That’s a huge red flag because of boundaries.

So they don’t respect boundaries. No to them is a challenge it is and it pisses them off. And so, for them, they do one of two things. Either they get hugely angry and rage, raging. Hello. Because you’ve said no, you know, if you give a no wall of No, here’s the wall of No, and they want to march over it, there’s your sign that this is not a good person. So, they’ll either rage try to intimidate you to get you to go back and say yes. Or they’ll pout, or they’ll sit there and But why? But why? But why? But why? And then try to make you wrong. Well, you’re just a prude. You’re just this, you’re just that, as opposed to Okay, well, you don’t have to that was just a suggestion. And then you go off and do your own thing. You know, but they don’t respect the word no. Huge red flag, huge red flag, huge red flag. Okay, let’s see, hold on. I just I just want to get these through these two. And then we’ll get to the questions. I promise.

They thwart your professional goals. They want you to quit your job, they hate who you work with. They are jealous of your coworkers. They don’t want you to take that promotion. They are thwarting you because you know, whatever. They don’t want you to be more successful than them. They instill self-doubt and worthlessness. Really. You sure you want to wear that? Really? You sure you want to eat that? Oh my god. Yeah. And so, they make us second guess. Gaslighting making the person question their competence and even their basic perceptual experience. Okay. Shaming is a huge thing that they use jealousy and gaslighting. Alright, so that was that article.

Let me get to the next one. Criticism and this is from the Gottman, Gottman technique, Gottman Institute, criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling and contempt. So once they’ve got you, if you point out something that they’re doing, they will get incredibly defensive. In a healthy relationship, there is no defensiveness. You take it into considerations, like, Is this something I need to work on yeah it is okay. You go work on it. If it’s not something you need to work on, you kind of go, Okay, this is not something I need to work on. I’m not going to work on it. But with an abuser, they get incredibly defensive. They are incredibly critical. They can dish it out, but they cannot take it. And it’s not constructive criticism. And they they Stonewall to get their way they pout. They don’t have honest conversations, emotions, anger them, that should be a huge red flag if you’re crying and it makes them angry, you are in the face of an abuser. You are in the face of an abuser. If they cannot handle other emotions. That means they can’t handle their emotions. If they can’t handle others, they can’t handle theirs. So, a normal response to somebody crying is to comfort.

Narcissists don’t comfort, they also don’t apologize if you will notice that. So, if they never apologize, or if their apologies are I’m sorry, but I’m sorry, you made me I’m sorry. You run, do not walk to the nearest exit. Okay, so there is the Gottman stuff, hang on five relationship flags bashing their ex on the first date. I think I talked about that. Um, changing the subject back to them all the time. I think I talked about that. Making decisions without your consent. So, you know, it seems like it’s being kind to order for you, I find that incredibly offensive. It’s like I know what I want to eat. Thank you. So, you know, they make decisions without even asking you. That’s no bueno. That’s not good.

And healthy relationship. It is a partnership, meaning you guys are on the same page. You’re talking about stuff and you make decisions together. So, like John and I doing the remodel, okay. You know, every decision was made together to make sure that we were both happy with it. So that one was estatic and the other one was miserable. That’s stupid. So, you make sure that the decisions are made together as a partnership. If that is not occurring, that is a huge red flag that is power and control. Be aware. Be aware. Be aware. Okay, hold on.

One more thing. Oh, pay attention to their sense of entitlement. And I’m going to be talking about that next week. So, sense of entitlement, the way they treat the waitstaff, the way they treat people that can do nothing for them. How do they treat them? How do they treat the homeless? How do they treat the waiters? How do they treat you know, the elevator guy, the doorman? How do they treat those people? You know that’s, that tells you a lot about who a person.

Feeling uncomfortable about or around them. So, if we come from an abusive family of origin, our guts are talking to us. But we tend to go No I’m over exaggerating. I’m you know, I’ll just, I’ll just ignore that. No, do not ignore your gut. Listen to me now. Believe me later. your head and your heart will lie to you. The gut will never lie to you. And it’s been screaming at you your whole life, pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room, you want to pay attention to that. So anyway, those are some of the red flags.

You know, the moving too fast. Oh, there’s another one moving too fast in the dating situation. So, you start dating somebody and yeah, they want to spend every waking moment with you, but moving too fast. So, like, within a week, I have seen abusers claim that this person was their boyfriend or their girlfriend. Within a week, that’s not long enough to know who somebody is. It really isn’t. You know, and then within a month, oh, we’re, you know, we’re getting married, we’re engaged. Or, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s love at first sight. Can love at first sight happen it? Yeah, it can. But it’s exceedingly rare. So, you know, it, just be aware of somebody who is rushing things you want to take your time. Now, both John and I came from families of origin that had some issues, obviously, you know, about mine in my book. So, we took our time, you know, we dated for two years, and then we decided we were going to get married. And then we waited another two years, and then we got married. And we’ve been together for 27 years now I think married. So, you know, you take your time. If it’s meant to be it’ll still be there. Ain’t no reason to rush. There is no expiration date on this people. And if somebody is pushing, pushing, but Oh, no, no, no, we need to get married. clock is ticking. Got to get married. Got to…, you need to really take a look at that. Take your time, know who the person is, really get to know them. And sometimes with the more psychopathic ones, it takes a lot longer for the mask to slip. So, they’re able to keep the ruse going for quite a while. But you know, when life events happen, pay attention to how they respond or react to that traveling with somebody is going to tell you a great deal about who that person is. So yeah, there’s, there’s, there’s that. Alright, let’s get to the question questions. Dun, dun dun, let me get rid of that. Okay. All right.

Um, how do I stop thinking about a girl I’ve never been in a relationship with. It’s been two years, and I can’t get her out of my mind and haven’t talked to her. Or seen her since. Okay, so that’s a fantasy bond. So, let’s talk about the fantasy bond. So, a fantasy bond is we fall in love with the illusion. And this happens in abusive relationships. This happens when we do this, oh, my gosh, this person I haven’t even met is fabulous and wonderful. And I can’t stop thinking about well, you’re ignoring what’s right in front of you. So, it’s a way to, it’s a way to distract. It’s a way to avoid, it’s a way to keep yourself so busy with this fantasy bond over here. That’s not even real, that you’re not living your life. So, the way to stop the fantasy bond is get with a good trauma therapist, why are you doing this? What happened in your family of origin? What was going on over here? Who does this person remind you of? What are you trying to recreate? What are you hoping to have? It’s not reality, because this person is not even here. You haven’t seen her talk to them in two years. So, get with a good trauma therapist. Let’s figure out what this fantasy bond is about. So, there’s a great book called The Fantasy bond by Firestone. So, Dr. Oh, what’s his first name? Dr. Firestone. I can’t think of his first name. So, it’s called The Fantasy Bond. You want to get that book. You want to read it and you want to figure out what are you doing? So, you’re gonna do thoughts stopping. So anytime this person pops up, you’re gonna have to be like, Nope, this is not reality. I am not gonna live in this fantasy. No, thank you. This is not reality, buh bye and you send it off, and you’re probably going to have to do that several times. You’re going to probably also want to write a goodbye letter to the fantasy. So, you’re going to grieve the loss of the illusion. Delusion, dear fantasy, Wow, great fantasy that I’ve had for two years. Guess what? It’s keeping me from living my life. It’s keeping me from living in the here and now. I’m going to have to say goodbye to you. This sucks. I wish it was real. But it’s not. Trot out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it get with a good trauma therapist. There is some reason in your past that you’re living in this fantasy moment. So,The Fantasy Bond by Dr. Firestone. Get it read it.

Okay, um, is it common for a narcissistic ex-boyfriend to try to contact you even after 20 years? Yes. When he got married to another woman, oh, Lord. Oh, I cannot tell you. I have had clients that have been divorced for 20, 30 years, one case 40 years. The narcissist got a hold of them when the supply ran out. So huge red flag. So, we’re coming into Valentine’s Day, this is not surprising. This is usually the time of year when ghosts of exes past come to visit. So, um, yeah, they will, they, they can contact 20, 30, 40, 50 years they can. So, what they do is they’re hoping that you don’t remember. They’re hoping that it’s been so long that you forget how they treated you.

Kris Godinez  35:25

And so abusers will Hoover 20, 30, 40, 50 years out into the future, you’ve got to have your guard up. And it’s funny because it’s this time of year, when these people usually do that, which is crazy, because you know, like I said, Valentine’s Day is coming up. If the abuser doesn’t have a narcissistic supply, they’re gonna go search for a new one. And if they’ve run out, and this is interesting, so generally by the time they’ve reached their middle age, late middle age, they pissed off everybody and their dog. Okay. And so now they’re having to go back and see if they can suck in an old supply. And that’s what they’re doing. And so that’s why they reach out 20, 30, 40, 50 years later. Oh, hey, you know, a long time. No, see, I was just thinking about you. Okay, how nice for you block. Don’t do it. Just don’t do it. It’s not safe. It’s not safe. They haven’t changed. They haven’t changed. They don’t change. If they were abusive, then they’re going to be abusive now, maybe in a different way. But they’re still be abusive, so yeah, yes, that does happen. Absolutely. And so that’s why you want to lock down your social media, your Twitter, your Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok. What are the other ones? All of the all of the other ones, lock them down tight! And if you get a Hoover from any of the exes that were abusive, delete, don’t respond. You don’t need to. And can they do it 20,30, 40, 50 years later? You betcha. When they start running out a new supply, when they can’t get new supply, they’ll go back to old supply. Absolutely. Because remember, in their mind, they’ve got a harem. They’ve got a harem. They’ve got a little black book, Boy, am I dating myself, I don’t even know if people keep black books anymore. In the old days, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, the players would keep a little black book filled with all the names and numbers of the people that they were going to hook up with. So that’s what they’re doing. They’re going back through their little black book trying to find a previous supply that can come in and give them narcissistic supply. So yeah, don’t fall for it and be aware of that that can happen 20, 30, 40, 50 years later. Absolutely. They do that. You betcha.

Okay, um, my current girlfriend keeps accusing me of cheating. And I’m not. I keep reassuring her and for a few days, she’s fine. And she goes right back to demanding that I not hang out with female friends. Oh, boy. So generally, not always. But generally, if somebody is doing that, they’re either the ones that are thinking of cheating, or they are cheating. narcissists are the ones that do that. I have seen it, where the partner is just immensely insecure. And they keep demanding that the partner reassure them, but there is… let’s be clear, you could be frickin Mahatma Gandhi, and give her all of the reassurance and all of the positive affirmations in the world, and it will never be enough for her. Because the problem is not with you, it’s with her. Let me say that, again, the problem is not with the person that’s being accused, it’s with the accuser. So, the accuser needs to go to therapy and work on self-esteem and work on where is this coming from? Where in the family of origin is this coming from? Where is this pathological and it is pathological, insecurity coming from so when a person is accusing somebody all the time of cheating and is jealous and not allowing them to hang out and this that the other thing, and then they go, Oh, well, I’m just so insecure, great, we’ll go work on it, dude, or dudette. It’s not my problem. It’s your problem. I can’t fix you and they’re looking to you to fix them. Let’s be clear on that. So that would be codependency, which is either this or this. Okay? And so, when they can’t get that propping up that they need they go Kathunk! And then they blame you. So, it’s a no-win situation. The person needs to get therapy, any person that is accusing their partner of cheating and the partner is not cheating and is constantly trying to reassure them. If this person over here that’s doing the accusing does not go get therapy, your relationship is doomed seriously, because if they don’t get this handled, you’re going to get sick and tired of being accused of cheating all the damn time. And it’s gonna get really tiring and wearing to constantly try to prop this person up. Because even if you prop them up like you noticed, okay, I propped you up…. Okay, wait. Now back over here. Oh, but you’re cheating. I don’t want you hanging out. Oh, no, no, no, everything’s fine. Everything’s fine. Everything’s good. You’re it’s, you know, I’m not cheating everything’s, but you’re cheating. I don’t want you hanging out, do you see where I’m going? It’s never gonna end. It’s never gonna end. So insist that they get therapy. And if they come up with any reasons why or how they can’t Good luck, Babes, peace out bye you leave.

Kris Godinez  40:30

Because that is the definition of a toxic relationship. This person needs to go get therapy to work on their pathological insecurity. That is their problem, not this person’s problem. You cannot prop them up, there’s not enough propping up in the world that will make them feel good. That hole over here can only be filled by them. You cannot fill that hole. It’s a black hole. They have to fill it. You can’t help. Hope that answered the question. Okay, um, all right.

How do I keep my abusive ex from calling me it’s been six months since I left him and I blocked him on all social media and on my phone. Okay, so now we’re getting into obsessive exes. Okay? The more obsessive an ex is, the more dark triad they are… meaning the more narcissistic, Machiavellian, control freak, and the more pathological psychopath that they are. So, if you’ve blocked them on literally everything, and they’re calling you from different phone numbers, friends, phone numbers, whatever, you can do one of two things, you can either text them or tell them but it’s better to text, you need everything in writing, text them, I do not want contact with you, please stop contacting me. And if they contact you, again, you’re going to screenshot all of the different phone numbers that they’ve called you from. And you’re going to, or you’re going to write down all the different phone numbers that they’ve called you from, and you’re going to take it in, and you’re going to get an order of protection. And sometimes that is the only thing that makes these people and I use the term people loosely stop, because they’re obsessive because you got away and they don’t like it, and they want you back so they can dump you. That’s really what it is. It’s so frickin pathetic. So, what they want to do is they do the whole baby, baby, I’ve changed, I miss you, you know, it’ll be better, I promise, no, the abuse will be better, like more like different. That’s the only thing that’s going to be different. So, you know, they, but they want you back so that they can harm and abuse and dump you if you got away from them. And they didn’t get to dump you oh my god, that pisses them off so badly. So basically, what you’re gonna do, as soon as you know, it’s them, you don’t even say anything you hang up, you take a note of what that phone number is, you write it all down, then you go and you file an order of protection. And you show the judge, I’ve been broken up with this person for six months, I’ve locked down all of my social media, all of this, they’ve called me from this number, this number, this number, this number, this number, this number, this number, this number, this number, I have told them please stop. So, get it in writing, send him a text, I do not want you to call me anymore, please stop calling and you do that every time they call on a different number. And then that way, when you go in, you can show I’ve told them multiple times, you know, this is harassment, I’m scared, can I please get an order of protection. So that’s what you’re gonna do. They’re obsessive. And it’s, it’s they’re doing it for one of two reasons. Either they’re trying to scare you, which a lot of times that’s their motive. Or they’re the the dark triad that can’t stand the fact that you got away from them. And they’re trying to in their mind, woo you back, which I don’t know how anybody in their right mind would think that calling somebody multiple times from different phone numbers is going to woo anybody back especially if the person who said please stop contacting me crazy. You know what I’m saying? So yeah, so definitely do write down all the numbers, send a text to each one saying do not contact me when they when they do contact you do not contact or just once Do not contact me I am not interested. You know, and then there’s your there’s you’ve done that you’ve let them know in no uncertain terms. And if they continue, you write out all of the different numbers they’ve called you from you show the judge that you’ve blocked everything and show them that you’ve sent them a thing saying I don’t want contact please leave me alone. And then you try to get an order of protection. So, it’s it is harder these days to get an order protection. They used to give them out a little bit more freely. But yeah, if they’re, if they’re harassing you, if they’re doing that if they’re showing up at your work if they’re calling your work. Yeah, absolutely get an order protection. Okay, um, how are we doing on time? Okay.

Um, I’m in an emotional recovery. I’m in emotional recovery for you for a few years now. What if we are too comfy being mostly alone? I am busy with my children. How do I make myself socialize when it feels like work? Well, okay, so there is such a thing as social anxiety. Somebody asked me this the other day, they were like, what’s the difference between antisocial and social anxiety? Well, big huge antisocial personality disorder is a personality disorder. It’s basically on your road to psychopath is what it is. anti social as in I’m anti social I don’t want to go out is usually based in anxiety, it’s usually social anxiety. So, it can feel like work if we’ve got social anxiety. So, there are social anxiety support groups, believe it or not, so you can join one of those. And it’s online. And you know, you just kind of get used to socializing. It’s like, you know, you get used to talking, you get used to going out and things like that. There’s nothing wrong with being alone. But if you are feeling like, Oh, gee, I would like to socialize, but I feel so stressed out when I do it, then that’s when I would get with a good trauma therapist, and I would work on the social anxiety. It’s like, what what is the fear? And oftentimes, not always, but often what I find with clients is that they’ve got social anxiety because some family of origin member humiliated them, put them down, criticize them, you know, made them feel less than, and so they’re terrified of going out into a social situation and being judged and I don’t blame them. You know, so you want to work on. You want to work on self-esteem. So, the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, that’s a great one. So, you work on your own self-esteem and confidence in who you are. And you work on with a therapist, what the trauma was the caused you to get the social anxiety, we don’t generally pop out of the womb being anxious we don’t that’s a learned behavior that some adults had to screw up the world for us. And that’s where we learned it from. So, get with a good therapist figure out where the social anxiety is coming from. What are your fears? Challenge them? Fear false evidence appearing real challenge them. Oh, I’m afraid I’m gonna make a fool of myself. Okay. Listen, everyone is so in their heads, they’re not really paying deep attention to anyone else around them seriously. And people who are your friends like real friends would never harm you, hurt you, criticize you, make fun of you. People who are not your friends would. But you know, those people don’t matter. So yeah, you want to figure out what your fear is you want to challenge it and then you want to take the steps to overcome it. So that’s why I’m saying a good therapist would really help you work on self-esteem with the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, for sure for sure. Okay. Mmm hmm.

Kris Godinez  47:33

Kris can vulnerable narcissist commit suicide? Oh, boy. All right, vulnerable narcissist. I don’t believe in vulnerable narcissists. Here are the things there’s either overt covert or somatic. That’s what’s going on. Um, so the what you would consider a vulnerable narcissist, which is not even a thing. Um, those would be the the covert ones. So, the covert ones are the victims of the world. They are the ones that play the victim. You did this… a covert, over, somatic, and communal. So, they are the ones that play the victim. They are the ones that you know, poor me, I do all of this for you. Look what I’ve done for you, you do nothing for me. Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. So, can they commit suicide? Yeah. Is it likely? No, because they’re narcissistic. And they really cannot imagine the world without them. But what they can do is accidentally kill themselves. I’ve seen that happen. So, they play the victim. They do the suicidal gesture, but they miscalculate and they’re not found in time, or they miscalculate and it does kill them. That kind of thing. So usually, the covert ones are the ones that do that those are the equivalent to the hermit borderlines so they play the victim all the time. Poor me, you know I do all of this. I’m so… I have such an onus, you know you, you guys don’t appreciate me. And so, then the martyr goes out and does a suicidal gesture. And yeah, not likely. But yeah, they can. But usually, when a narcissist threatened suicide, it is a manipulation. It is used to get the target of abuse to come in line with what the narcissist wants. So again, if you’ve got somebody in your life, either a family member or a friend or you know coworker I’ve seen that two coworker, that’s, you know, threatening suicide, I’m going to kill myself, if I’m going to kill myself if you don’t, I’m going to kill myself, blah, blah, blah, you call the crisis line, you call the crisis line, and instead or you call 911. And you ask for a welfare check. You know, you don’t play the game. And what they want you to do is to toe the line and do what they want and that’s why they’re doing the suicidal ideation is because they want you to do whatever it is. So, I don’t know if I ever told you I’m sure I told you guys this story. I was out on a date. This was back when I was in college. And I was in a sorority, and one of my sorority sisters set me up with this guy, and he was crazy, like, crazy. So, we go to this dance. And thankfully, I drove, and we go to the stands, and he was more interested in getting wasted that he wasn’t dancing. So, he was out back smoking and doing God knows what and drinking and everything else. And I was like, Oh my God, I am so bored. So finally, I was like, Okay, well, I gotta work tomorrow. So gotta go, you know, or got classes tomorrow or whatever. So, I drove him back to his house. And then in the car, he demanded that I have sex with him. I was like, No. Like, you were the furthest thing I would ever have sex with. Thank you very much. But it was a very scary situation. Because here I was in my car, with this guy who’s crazy and drunk and high and everything else demanding that I have sex with him. And when I said, No, I’m sorry, that’s not going to happen. He then pulled the suicide card, well, I’m going to kill myself if you don’t. And he thought that was going to manipulate me into having sex with him. So, what I did is I pulled out psychology. That’s an interesting thought, you know, is sex worth dying for really? Like, you know, Where’s this coming from? Do you not value your life, basically started doing a session on him in the car took about an hour. And finally, he realized he wasn’t going to get his way. I wasn’t going to give up. I was ready to start, you know, honking the horn and whatever else I needed. If in case he attacked me, thank God, he was so out of it. He didn’t do that. But yeah, when they don’t get their way, they pull the suicide card. They absolutely do. You know, and so I told him, I said, you know, here’s the name of a great therapist, you need to go see her, you know, there’s therapy on campus, I strongly suggest you do that. This is not normal. Thank God, it worked. And he finally got out of my car, and he finally left and I got to go home. And I was okay. But I’ll tell you what, my guardian angels were working overtime that night. So yeah, they do, do that. They do try to do that to get their way. Absolutely. Do they follow through on it? They can, but it’s usually accidental.

So alright, um, let’s see. Are there any other questions? Identical twins. Is it nature or nurture? How can I understand why I lost my twin to the narcissistic, dark side? It’s so confusing. Do you think it points to something other than nature nurture? Well, it is nature, nurture.

Kris Godinez  52:32

So we are born with temperament. Identical twins are not completely identical, let’s be clear. So identical twins are not completely identical. So um, it is nature, we are born with a disposition and then there is nurture. So, you know, you can be born with a certain disposition and then nurture kind of pushes you over the edge or pulls you back from the edge, depending… so I think I’ve talked about the, the scientists that was it turned out he was a psychopath. He had the brain patterns of a psychopath. And he didn’t realize it until he did a study on psychopathic brains and needed a control group. And so, he took, you know, MRIs PET scans of his family and himself. And then when he was going through, he realized in the control group, there was a psychopathic brain. And he was like, Oh, ha, ha, ha, who is this, he peeled back the name it was him. And the reason he never went down the psychopathic path, and didn’t do the typical psychopathic things is because the family directed him into science, where you can be unemotional and completely logical, and you know, not having to deal with emotions, and it serves the person well in science. So, nature nurture, yes. And, and we have different dispositions. So, family of five, you know, there’s, you know, me. So, okay, so I’ve got two of my sisters who are very similar, you know, to each other, and to me, and then I’ve got two other siblings that I’m just like, Oh, my God, where did you come from? How are we related? What the actual, you know. So, nature and nurture. It really does make a difference. So yeah, nature, nature sets us up. Nurture determines whether we go over the cliff or not. So there that is, let’s see if we have one more question. Are we done? Oh, we’re done. All right. My love’s Have a great week. Drink plenty of water, take good care of yourselves, and be good to each other. I’ll talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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