We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

02-06-2022 Aftermath Friends, Family, Exes
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses what to expect from friends, family, and exes when the target of abuse decides to leave the abuse.  

Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so let’s dive into the aftermath. So, when we leave an abusive relationship, whether it is a parental abusive relationship, or a romantic abusive relationship, or a toxic friendship, or family or anything like that, it’s kind of like the image I used when I was posting the, you know, notifications on Facebook was basically a nuclear bomb going off. And that’s kind of what it feels like when we leave. So, you figured out they’re abusive; you don’t like it, you’re not dealing with it, you’re done. Peace out, I’m gone. Okay. So, we leave and boom, nuclear explosion and all of the people we thought that we could count on, turns out, not so much. So, one of the questions that I got was, how do I tell who’s, who’s, who’s, who’s a friend or who’s a foe? So basically, anyone who sides with your abuser is no bueno for you. Okay, seriously, like if they’re if family I’m sorry, so much information.

I’ve heard of cases, and I’ve seen cases where the target of abuse figures out the abuser wants nothing more to do with them says, That’s it. I’m done. I’m leaving, and the target of abuse’s family sides with the abuser. And you know, Oh, you shouldn’t leave Oh, no, it’s a good relationship. Oh, no, you, you need that financial security, you need this, you need that, blah, blah, blah, or, Oh, they’re such a good guy or a good girl. And you know, the target of abuse is sitting there going, What the Bleep just happened, I don’t understand. So, when we leave, it’s going to be really clear that there are going to be flying monkeys really clear. So, anyone who sides with the abuser, like let’s say, the abuser does their dance, right? And you figure it out, and you decide you’re done. And you’ve told the family and or friends, this is what this person did to me. I’m not interested there. You know, this, this, I suspect that their narcissistic personality disorder, I suspect they’ve got issues that could possibly be antisocial. I don’t want any more to do with them. I am done. And if they pressure you to go back to them or tell you, you have to go back to them or they take, start taking Satan’s side. Or taking the abuser’s side. They’re flying monkeys. And there’s two types of flying monkeys, there are the ones who are just clueless, like they don’t get it. Like they’ve never seen abuse, they’ve never been around abuse. They don’t understand how abusers work. They don’t get the manipulation. They’re very naive. They just, they don’t, they’ve never seen it or been exposed to it. And they’re the kind of the ones that it has to happen to them before they get it. Which to me is just kind of like, okay, people, you know, I don’t need to be in an avalanche to know what that would feel like because I use my imagination. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s like they don’t ever want to think about somebody being that heinous. Right? So, they do the kind of Pollyanna Oh no, nobody can be that, that… well yeah mofo they can Yeah, they can. Absolutely. So, they side with the abuser either out of ignorance like willful ignorance I think it is in some cases or they are minor narcissists themselves and they are enjoying the drama The trauma, the upset, the stirring the pot the… you know, the tears, the anger, the… you know, watching you suffer, because nobody I know in their right mind is going to side with an abuser. Nobody I know in their right mind is going to go Yeah, that’s the person I’m going to side with. Oh, look, my own blood and flesh is saying that they’re abusive, but I’m going to side with the person that was beating the crap out of them? I don’t think so. So, you know, and were beating the crap out of them emotionally. That’s what most abusers do. They do get physical but yeah, so a flying monkey is either just pathetically Pollyannaish doesn’t get it because they’ve never had it happen to them they haven’t seen it so therefore if I haven’t had it happen to me it doesn’t exist which is a load of crap. Or they are narcissists themselves minor narcissists and they are enjoying the drama, the trauma, the upset, the pain, the suffering, the anger, the tears, the whole thing is remember, narcissists live off of watching other people suffer, because they’re appendages that I will not mention, because I can no longer swear. So, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s like, they’re douchebags. So, they’re total douchebags, and they enjoy watching people suffer. And if somebody’s siding with an abuser, that’s, that’s a clear sign.

So, the other thing that happens is, so that’s dealing with, you know, the family kind of thing and or friends that have sided with the abuser. So, here’s another thing that comes up for people is okay, I am now recognizing how many abusers are in my circle. Like how many toxic people there are in my circle? Is it me? Or is it them? So, here’s the thing, once you see it, you cannot unsee it. So, in other words, once you’ve been through an abusive relationship of any kind, and you start educating yourself, the blinders have come off. You’re no longer doing though no can’t see the pink elephant you’re not doing that anymore. You know, you’re like, Oh, yep.

Kris Godinez  06:46

Oh, crap, there’s Damn, there’s a lot of pink elephants are out here. Back out of the room slowly and quietly. Yeah, you’re recognizing how many disordered people remember, you know, the statistics in the DSM five, say it’s like seven to 9%. And I’m sitting here going, huh? Because they don’t go get help, they don’t get diagnosed. So, the percentage from what I’m seeing out in the real world is closer to 30 to 35, maybe 40%. So yeah, there’s a lot of toxic, disordered people out there. So, you’re going to be coming out of this relationship, you’re going to be dealing with flying monkeys. Now, if you’re coming out of a family that was abusive, you’re going to be dealing with the flying monkeys that are going to be trying to pull the whole Oh, honor thy mother and father BS on you don’t fall for it. And those are the ones you got to watch out for. If they know that you’ve been being financially abused, physically abused, emotionally abused, religiously abused, sexually abused, etc. And they’re still defending the parents run, do not walk to the nearest exit, and then dealing with I know, I’m all over the place today. But this is all this stuff that happens when you leave. So, the blinders come off, the flying monkeys come flying forward, and you’re and you know, that they’re flying monkeys, because they’re siding with the abuser, you’re recognizing that the friends around, you are probably toxic, just based on behavior.

And, and it’s, it’s like somebody was asking, it’s like, Well, okay, how do I know that they’re toxic. So, a friendship is just exactly that. It’s a friendship, they have got your back. They are watching out for you. It’s, it’s equal. It’s a partnership. It’s just platonic. You know what I’m saying? With a toxic person, the friendship is unequal. So, it’s like you do for them but, they are never there for you, ever! And if you start asking them for help, which, you know, honestly, trauma targets, very rarely do because it’s trauma response to not ask for help. But if you do, you know, round up the courage to ask for help. They’re peace out. They’re nowhere to be found. They don’t want to hear it. Oh, you’re a downer. Oh, are we on that topic? Again? Why are we talking about this? Oh, let’s talk about me. You know, seriously, that’s what they do. So, a toxic friendship is somebody who’s always focused on themselves. Or they’re somebody who is you get, you get that feeling of being slimed. So, when we come out of the toxic relationship, whether it’s family, whether it’s friends, whether it’s a boss, whether it’s a romantic partner, whatever we are just baby steps, starting to trust our gut, because it took a pretty big boom for us to finally go, Oh, nope, that’s it. I’m done. I’m out of here by right. So, we have to start trusting our gut. So, if you’re around people and you’re watching and behavior does not match what they are saying. So, the actions and the behaviors are not matching. There’s a sign that that person is toxic. Okay? The other sign that a person is toxic, whether it’s family, whether it’s friends, whether it’s acquaintances, whether it’s co-workers, whether it’s bosses, you have an interaction with that person, and you just get this feeling of either not being listened to not being heard. Or you get this feeling of being slimed, like totally slimed.

So, something that I talked about a few weeks ago, was the jealousy factor. And so, a question that I got was, well, I don’t have any outward proof that this friend is jealous, but I feel icky. When I leave them. Well, that’s your gut. That’s your internal instinct. That’s your gut instinct, barkin’ ‘atcha. Like, seriously, it’s like going, Hey, yo, pay attention. Hey, you’re feeling slimed. Hey, you’re feeling like this person is jealous. What’s going on? You know, it’s like it’s telling you there is some warning bell going off. Pay attention to that. And this is so difficult for us as survivors because we’ve been groomed. We’ve been trained to not listen to that. warning bell, not listen to that gut instinct, that gut instinct is sitting there going, (siren noises) and we’re going, Nope, nope, nope, nope, shut up. Nope. Nope, can’t be right. Nope, nope, nope, don’t want to do that. So, you got to listen to your gut. So, anyone who makes you feel icky, or someone who gaslights, you subtly I mean, that’s the thing. It’s like, the problem with abusers. Well, the problem, some abusers are overt, some abusers are just like out front, abusive, you can tell that kind of thing. The sneaky ones, the covert ones. Those are the ones that leave you kind of going, Wait a minute, did I just… How come… this felt like a hit and run, screw you… what the what just happened. So that’s covert. So anytime you feel like after leaving someone’s presence that you got hit with a hit and run, you know, screw you that you should be paying attention to that because that’s your gut kind of going, Hey, by the way, you know that conversation about a half an hour ago, and now you’re feeling like doo-doo, you may want to replay that in your head, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s, it’s really important to start listening to your gut.

And when we first leave the abusive relationship, when the boom happens, and we’re done, and we’re out of there, and it’s very dramatic, and everything, you’ll find you’ll have some support from these people, because to them, it’s drama, right? But when you’re starting down the healing path, and you’re literally going no contact with the family, the friends, the coworker, the boss, whatever, that’s when you notice who the flying monkeys are. And that’s when you notice who the toxic people are because they’re the ones that are trying to undo all of your healthy steps there.

Okay, in one instance, I had a client that had gotten away, thrilled, gotten away, that had a child with this person, and they knew they were toxic, they knew they were abusive. And yet the friends around this person kept going, Oh, no, no, no, no, you need to, you know, they need to be in your child’s life. Your child needs this person. And I’m sitting here going, do not listen to anybody, friends, family, whatever, that’s telling you that your kid needs an abuser in the kid’s life, if you’ve gotten away from them, and they’re not doing the custody thing. And they’re, you know, and you’re free and clear, stay free and clear. You know what I’m saying? And so, the person’s succumbed to the peer pressure from the friends who were like, Oh, you need the money. Oh, you, the kid needs the dad. The kid needs the mom, you know, whatever the thing was. And so the person got the person back involved in the kid’s life. And it’s been a custody battle for the last 10 years now.

Kris Godinez  14:11

Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like, if you’re scot-free and you’re away from them, do not listen to people who are like, Oh, no, no, no. Make sure that the kid has the mom or the dad in their life. Well, if the mom or the dad in their life was verbally abusive, dragging them across the floor by their hair, you know, sexually abusing them, keeping them up at night, preventing them from going to school, etc, etc, etc, etc. And they’re doing drugs and alcohol and not working on it. Hell, no what the…? Don’t um, don’t get me started. So this is where you got to be really careful is because if you’ll notice those friends used guilt. They used guilt. They used guilt to get the person back with the abuser connected to the abuser hooked up with the abuser in some way, shape, or form. Anyone, anyone who uses fear obligation, you owe it to me You owe it to them Honor thy mother and father blah, blah kid needs both parents blah, blah, BS, or guilt as a manipulator they are toxic. But and, you know, we get this societal thing about how kids need both parents, no, they don’t if the parent, if one of the parents is abusive, the kid does not need that parent, trust me on that one. So, you know, you want to be very aware of the manipulation that you’re going to face from people who were not romantically involved with or who were not your family or you know, whatever. So, friends can be toxic as well. And you’ve got to pay attention to that little tiny voice of reason that’s coming from your gut going, excuse me, you Hello, might want to pay attention to this. You know, so. So, there’s that.

All right, so when we leave, it’s a blow-up. It’s very dramatic. It’s there’s, you know, the ex is doing the Watusi, they’re going to do one of two things. So, when we leave an abusive relationship romantically, I’m going to talk about family as well. When we leave an abusive relationship romantically. exes do one of two things. They’re very strange. They either go one extreme, which is, you know, the obsessive ex stalking, I’ll get you my pretty, you know, that whole thing. Or if they’re the ones that left they, Peace, out, they’ve got another family or another girlfriend or another boyfriend or another, whatever going on, and they could care less what’s going on with you. And that usually happens when there’s no children involved. Occasionally, it does happen when there are children involved. But for the most part, I see them peacing out and starting over again with somebody else if there’s nothing for them to fight about. So really an abuser in a romantic relationship will go balls to the walls to get the last toaster, the last custody right, the last whatever, because it’s exciting to them, they view court as Grand Theatre.

So in the beginning, it is going to be a boom, it is going to be a nuclear explosion it is it’s like and things are going to be up in the air and you’ll have the ex doing one of two things. They’re either going to be peace out don’t want anything to do with you or they’re going to be fighting over every single last little thing and every single last little custody thing. One of the two and or they’re going to be hoovering until they can get another supply until they can secure another supply.

So somebody had asked me recently, it’s like, you know, well, what is the longest you’ve seen somebody Hoover 40, 45 years? 50 years? Yeah, they, they wait until they’ve run out of supply. And then they’ll revisit old supply and try again. And they’re hoping that you don’t remember. So? Yeah.

So, it’s, it’s really when you leave

Kris Godinez  18:02

is really kind of, how to explain this? It’s the most liberating time but it’s also the most scary time because it’s liberating because you finally made the decision. You’re worth it and you’re out of there, right? But then now you’re having to open your eyes and deal with all of the toxic family, all the toxic friends, all the toxic people out there that are giving you bad advice. So, the recommendation I have is when people are getting ready to leave I tell them to educate themselves. That’s why I’m always recommending The Object of my Affection is in my Reflection; Coping with a Narcissist by Rokelle Lerner, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, PM Melody’s codependency books, absolutely. The Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, because when you’ve got good self-esteem, you’re not influenced by others, you’re not influenced by other esteem or other people’s opinions, you’re able to sit with yourself and go hmm, is this good for me or not? Okay?

Leaving a family. When you leave the family, you’re going to find out what family members are helpful. And what family members you should probably go no contact with. So, it’s funny because people are always like, Oh, you always talk about romantic but you never talk about family. It’s all the same, they all act the same. It’s just that you’re related to these people. So if you leave a family, and if you’ve decided to go no contact with mom and dad or whoever the caregivers were and you’re suddenly getting hit with aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings, etc, demanding that you stay in contact with somebody that you know is harmful and hurtful to you and that you don’t want to be in contact with that’s, they’re not listening to you. They’re not respecting your boundaries seriously. You know if you want to be in touch with them that’s on you and, and if you choose to go low contact instead of No contact, make sure your boundaries are rock solid, which also means making sure your self-esteem is rock solid so that you’re not influenced by the F.O.G. so that you’re not easily manipulated by abusers by flying monkeys, by minor narcissists who are trying to get you to go back into the fold

So why do they do that? Because abusers hate when the scapegoat leaves, because now, it’s a game of who’s it? And everybody is like not me, not it, not it! Well, let’s get them back. Let’s get them back into the fold. Let’s get them back being the scapegoat so that I don’t have to be yelled at. So that’s honestly what’s going on. They don’t like the fact that the scapegoat left and you know that the abuser is going to have to try to find somebody else to be the scapegoat. They don’t ever. nature abhors a vacuum. Abusers abhor a vacuum in more ways than one. We’ll talk about that at a later date. But so they don’t like when the scapegoat leaves because now they’ve got to find somebody else to go rawr, rawr, rawr at. And so then it’s a game of not it, not it, not it, oh, crap, let’s get the scapegoat back. So they will literally say family and friends will literally say, especially if the abuser is looking, looking, looking, looking for another person to take on the scapegoat role. Who can I abuse you, right? So the family and friends are like, Oh, my gosh, we got to get the scapegoat back in so that they are, you know, focused on them and not us. And that’s literally what they’re doing. It’s like little kids trying to stay safe. It really is.

So when you’re leaving, I think the biggest shock for targets of abuse is realizing the family did not, does not, will not, could not, won’t have their back ever, not on this or any other planet Earth. I mean, it’s just, you know, they are dedicated to the drama, they are dedicated to the upset, they are dedicated to the triangle, the stirring the pot, the crying, the tears, the anger, the sadness, the… you know, whatever. And they need to make sure that they, they’re not being abused. So, they’re going to make sure that the scapegoat comes back to the fold, and behaves accordingly.

So, when I’m talking to people that are leaving an abusive family, the question I always ask them is, and this is the one that they always kind of go, when I asked this, and you guys know what I’m going to say… If you’ve been watching me for a while, if you were not related to these bozos, would you have anything to do with them? That includes the flying monkeys! That includes anyone who’s doing the fear, the obligation, or the guilt! Would you have anything to do with them if you were not related to them? And the answer is usually resounding no. Act accordingly.

If the answer is no, you are under no obligation to continue to subject yourself to abusers. Even if they’re your family, even if they’re your parents, you don’t have to do it. I’m just making a point here. If you were not related to them, would you have anything to do with them? And if the answer is no, act accordingly, either go low contact, or no contact. And that goes for the cousins, the aunts, the uncles, anyone who supports the abuser is not on your side, they’re not playing for the good team. Let me just say they’re not fighting the good fight. Let’s just be clear. Okay. So that is, that is hard for targets of abuse to kind of wrap their head around that, you know, hey, Aunt Martha really is not the person I thought she was Aunt Martha is, is siding with the abuser, what the and that’s a really hard thing for us to deal with. Because we’re not just dealing with the betrayal as an adult, we’re dealing with the betrayal, from the mindset of the child, you know, the little kid, the child of the abuser, the child that looked up to Aunt Martha and is now realizing, Oh, crap, Aunt Martha’s just as bad as the abuser or is on the abuser side. So, The Inner Child Workbook by Katherine Taylor, or any inner child workbook, I don’t care, just get one and start working it seriously. Because we’re dealing with the layers of the betrayal. So, the layers of betrayal and especially when we’re leaving a family, because it’s not just the abusers that were realizing were betraying us. It was the family members that, you know, blind eye, not going to… Yep, no, don’t notice what mom and dad are doing. Oh, we’re just gonna pretend that didn’t happen. I’m sorry. If you’re standing by and you’re watching a child being abused, you’re just as bad as the abuser. Let me say that again. If these people are standing by and watching you be abused They are just as bad as the abuser. Mm-hmm. Yeah, um, yeah, I said it. So, and that makes me angry because it’s like if you know stuff is going down, you should be protecting that child, the child cannot protect themselves they’re kids, you know? So, yeah, so it’s the double betrayal of not just the actual abuser, but now all the family members who knew it was happening and did nothing. Get with a good trauma therapist, please get with a good trauma therapist. This is trauma, this is betrayal. This is core stuff. This is, you know, harming the self-esteem. This is you know, basically they’re saying you’re not worth it. You’re not worth it for us to protect. Who does that? Except for somebody who’s disordered, somebody who’s disordered is gonna stand by and just feel like oh, no, don’t say, oh, not gonna do anything. I don’t want to get in trouble. Don’t get me started anyway.

Oh, god. Okay. How am I doing on time? Okay, I am going to get to the questions. So to kind of wrap this all up, when we leave. It is a nuclear bomb. Your world is going to be blown apart. But the good news is, it will come back together in a much healthier way. So yes, in the, in the leaving and blowing it up. It feels like the end of the world. It does. It feels like chaos. It feels like you’re going to die. It feels like you’re not going to survive. It feels like oh my god is the worst thing that has ever happened. Yeah, you’re probably pretty much right. Having been involved with an abusive family, abusive friends, abusive boss, abusive, co-workers, abusive, anybody, you know, romantic partner. Yeah, that is pretty much the worst thing that you are ever going to go through. Here’s the good news. The blowing up, boom, Okay, it’s done. Now, you get to put yourself back together, stronger, healthier, more aware, more awake, and better able to protect yourself. Is that painful? Yeah, you betcha.

So, it’s the layers of consciousness that we go through when we leave an abusive relationship of any kind. There’s unconscious incompetence, that’s when we’re bouncing into walls. And we don’t understand why then we come up to conscious incompetence. Oh, I see the family dynamics or I see the abuse going on. Okay, I’m starting to understand now. And then we come up to conscious competence. We go get a therapist, we start working on the trauma, we start working on the self-esteem, we stopped looking outwards, looking for other esteem. So, we stopped looking outwards. We stopped going on to dating sites trying to get hookups, we stopped going on dating sites, trying to find someone to help us feel safe, or secure or happy, or whatever. So, you know, now we’re working inwards we’re working on really like, like sun comes up in the East sets in the West, we are really seriously committed to working on ourselves. Who are we? What do you want? What do we want? What do we want? Not what the abuser wanted? Not what the family wanted? What do we want? What makes us happy? What makes us tick? What makes us recharge our batteries? You know, how can we contribute to the greater good of society? What makes me happy, you know, that kind of thing. Working on the self-esteem working on the boundaries up nope, I’m not going to put up with that. That sounds an awful lot like gaslighting. Thanks for playing bye, bye, go pound sand. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s so important to work on those things. And it’s so funny to me how so many clients are just like, No, no, no, no, no, no, it’s got to come from somebody else. No, no, no, no, no, I’ve got to get other esteem. No, you don’t. If you do that you’re on the hamster wheel. You’re just going to be on the hamster wheel for the rest of your life. And you’re going to be sitting there going, Why am I dating the same people over and over again? Why am I attracting the same kind of toxic people over and over again, but you’re not doing anything about it? You got to do something about it, guys, you’re worth it. There is a section in the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, that is all about what is your worth? What is your value, recognize realize you are worthy of not being in an abusive relationship of any kind, not with a boss, not with coworkers or friends, not with family, not with a romantic partner. You deserve to be healthy and happy and you deserve to have peace and calm in your life. And you deserve to be able to sit by yourself and like your own thoughts and your own company. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yes, when we leave an abusive relationship, and I swear I’ll get to the questions in just a minute. It is a nuclear explosion, but then you get to put your life back together in a healthy way that makes it strong, so that somebody can’t come along and rip it apart, which is what an abuser does.

So let’s get to the questions, shall we? All right, so doo, doo, doo, my brother is helping in this new life, but at the same time sides with the abuser, even when he’s a target himself,

Kris Godinez  30:27

What should I do? Okay, so kids tend to side with the abuser because they’re trying to stay safe. So what you’re gonna do is you’re going to have a little chat with him. And you’re going to say, look, I’m concerned, here’s what I see, you know, and if you need to get with a good trauma therapist and have him come sit in on a session and to talk about this. Now, if he is unwilling to work on this, or take a look at it, or even acknowledge it. So, let’s say that you bring this up to them, and he flips the script and puts it back on you. That’s your clue that you’re dealing with somebody that you should not be having in your life at that point, if ever, you know, so it also I’m curious who the abuser is, is it family? Is it friends? Is it an ex? Is it whatever? So, if you’re siding with a parental unit that is abusive, it’s probably because of the inner child that’s terrified to really fully confront the abuser and be like, Nope, this is not okay. Because remember, kids will side with the abuser if there’s no therapy involved, which is why I tell everybody, if you’re divorcing, and you’ve got kids, make it a part of your divorce decree that the kids get to have therapy, and you get to have say in who they go see, and that they have to see a trauma therapist, because the kids will naturally side with the abuser in order to try to stay safe. That’s also why they act out with the saner parent, because they know they can’t act out with the crazy parent. So yeah, so if it’s, if it’s a parent, parental unit that they’re siding with, that’s his inner child. You know, if it’s a friend or family member, that’s, you know, I would strongly suggest getting with a good trauma therapist and having a session with them. You know, and bring the brother in and just be like, What up, dude? You know, and talk it through and if they’re unwilling to do that, there’s your answer. Bye-bye! I’ll figure it out myself. Have a nice life. You don’t need that. Absolutely. No, flying monkey! No Flying Monkeys zone. Okay, I need to get a t-shirt that says that.

Okay, my ex left me for his new narc supply and so, so he can stay on drugs. Ooh, I had very little proof of the abuse. Should I tell his new supply? Nope, nope. Houston. No! Problem! Danger! Don’t do it. And I’ll tell you why in just a minute. I worry he will hurt her like he did me. Well, of course, he will. But here’s the problem. You are setting Oh, thank you. Coleen. Um, you are setting yourself up for a Drama Triangle. So, what the ex will do is he will he or she will make you the villain. You in no scenario in, in any, any scenario, you will always be the villain. The current girlfriend or boyfriend will be either will be the victim. And they’re the hero or the victim. They play one of those two, they either play the villain or the hero or the victim. You’re always the villain, always. So, the desire is to go to the new girlfriend or boyfriend and say, Whoa, danger Will Robinson Danger! Danger! You’re getting involved with an abuser. What that’s gonna do is that’s gonna make you look crazy. I guarantee it because that’s what the ex will do. They will say, Oh, you know, my ex was crazy. My ex was this, my ex was that… I mean the stories I have heard, the smear campaigns are just breathtaking. I think in dealing with narcissists that’s a word I use a lot. Wow, that was breathtaking. Meaning that’s really screwed up. So, they will do this smear campaign. You’re crazy. You know? Oh, my ex is crazy. My ex is this my ex is mentally ill my ex is Ba, ba Ba, ba, ba, ba. Projection, projection, projection projection. And of course, the new supply is going to be like, I but I want to believe that this person is good, because again, ego is involved and they’re like, Oh, my picker can’t be broken. I couldn’t have picked somebody bad. You know, I’ve got a better picker than that. And of course, they don’t because you know, psychopaths are really good at mimicking and pretending to be human. So, um, yeah, so there’s that whole I couldn’t have picked somebody that they won’t believe you listen to me now. Believe me later. They will believe you. They won’t and of course, they will be have been pre-primed. The pump has been primed by the abuser. I’m sure they’ve already done the smear campaign. I’m sure they’ve already done the whole Old They’re crazy, blah, blah, blah. And so, you go to warn the new supply and the new supply is gonna go heard about you, and they’re not gonna believe you. So, save your breath. Go live your life. It’s not about them anymore. It’s not. it’s not it’s really, truly not.

Kris Godinez  35:19

So save your breath go work on you self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, The Inner Child workbook by Katherine Taylor or any inner child workbook, any codependency book pm Melody, Disease to Please use the other one Codependent no more, Beyond codependent no more any of those books are good, go get them go read them, Who’s pulling your strings, Harriet Braiker, you know, those are all great books, which I have pinned to the top of my page on Facebook. So, if you ever want a list of good reading, go to my Facebook page, we need to talk with Chris Godinez. And it’s pinned to the top and I’ve got a ton of books there that I have found helpful over the years. So, there’s that okay, hold on.

Okay, let’s go to the next question. Yeah, so wouldn’t do any good. You’ll just be the crazy one. And yeah, is he gonna hurt her? Probably. That’s what they do. But you know, it’s kind of like, it’s not your problem. Now. Here’s another here’s the other side of that. What if the ex comes? Or what if the new supply comes to you after the ex starts acting crazy and wants to know stuff? Little slightly different. You could, you could meet with them and just be like, Look, here’s the deal, but be prepared. Because what I’ve seen also happen in those cases, it could go one of two ways either the best-case scenario is that the current supply goes, Okay, thank you for the validation. I just needed to know that and then they break up with them, they go on their merry way. The other thing that I’ve seen happen though, is that they run back to the abuser hoping that they’re going to change, hoping that they’re going to tell them what they want to hear. And then now the ex has got all of this ammunition and they’re going to start firing off texts and firing off emails and stalking and all sorts of terrible things. So yeah, it’s, it’s really it’s a crapshoot. It’s a crapshoot. I don’t recommend speaking to a current supply. I really don’t. Because it’s just another way for them to make a connection to you. And remember, the abuser would rather have an effed-up, screwed-up, nasty connection than no connection at all. So, it honestly would be better to be like, you know, if an ex, if a current supply called up, I would be like, you would want to read these books. That’s all I’m gonna say. You end the conversation. So, Object of my affection is in my reflection coping with a narcissist, stop walking on eggshells by Randy Krieger, you know, is you might want to read these books. That’s, that’s all I’m gonna say. And then you end the conversation. Thank you for calling. I wish you well, I wish you would be well. When I tell people, I wish them well. That’s kind of like the southern version of bless your heart. It’s like I really, it’s like, Well, I wish you were well. Yeah. That kind of thing. So. All right, um, all right.

What about friends who mostly get it, but encourage you to explain to family of origin? Your reasons for going no contact? No, no. No, with a side of no and an extra helping of no and a complete different dish of hell no! So, friends that do that? Well, you have to explain to them… No, they know. Let me just say that again. They already know. Healthy Relationships, Healthy Families don’t have people going no contact because you like each other. And you enjoy each other’s company. And there’s no reason to go no contact. But somebody who’s unhealthy and the kids, all of them. And that’s the funny thing. It’s like one kid after the other no contact, no contact, no contact, no contact. There. Here’s your sign. You know, they know. They don’t need an explanation. They know what they’ve done. This is. So again, flying monkeys. So what you’re gonna do is you’re going to educate the flying monkeys, you’re gonna get one chance. One. And you’re going to say read this book. Watch these videos. And then if you come back to me and tell me that I need to explain to them we will be done. There you go. Done. Boundary rock solid. Does that feel a little harsh? Yeah, to us. It does. You know why? Because we’ve been trained not to say no, we’ve been trained that we have to take it. We’ve been trained that we have to have these people in our lives and the reality is, life is too damn short. It really, truly is. And I don’t have time for flying monkeys and neither do you because there are VISTAs to explore. There are countries to go to there’s food to eat. It’s like no, I don’t have time for this. No, you do not explain to the family of origin. They know what they’re doing, guys, this whole myth. Oh, this is the warning tangent. I’m about to go on a tangent, this whole myth that the abuser is just, they’re just wounded. They’re just they just need to be….NO! They know exactly what they’re doing. It is malice aforethought. They know exactly what that nasty thing they just said is they know where it’s gonna land. They do because they’ve been studying you. They’ve been looking for that in so that they can get you. Okay, they know exactly what they’re doing. They’re not innocent, they’re not wounded. They’re not whatever. here’s the here’s the thing that makes me so angry when I hear these apologists sit there and go, Oh, but they had a bad family of origin… Okay, join that frickin club BEEYOTCH. Seriously, who of us here didn’t go through abuse? Crickets. Hello, we all went through abuse. I don’t see any of us acting like a bunch of Jack wagons. I’m sorry, narcissistic personality disorder and malignant borderlines have no empathy. They know exactly what they’re doing. They land their words exactly to hurt. They know exactly what every action is going to do and what the reaction is going to be because they’re looking for narcissistic supply. So no you do not explain to them. Absolutely. I’m not yelling at you. I’m just I get, I get so angry for apologists, I really do. They know what they’re doing. They know where you’re going no contact and I’m sure you’ve probably explained it to them 100,000 million times and 100,000 million different ways. Okay, they’re not listening because they don’t want to. So, no, so you tell those friends, look, I have already explained to them how their actions have been hurtful. I have already explained all of this stuff. They’re unwilling to go to therapy, they’re unwilling to work on themselves. They’re not willing to read anything, they’re not willing to change. I’m done. And unless you educate yourself on this, and if you bring this up one more time, we’re done. Problem solved. Is that harsh? Well, for us? Yeah, it’s gonna feel harsh at first, and they’re gonna come unglued, guaranteed. But here’s the thing, that’s a boundary, that’s a boundary, respect it RESPECT, find out what it means to me and my self-esteem. Seriously, this person, these friends need to respect your boundary. And when they insist that you need to go explain it to them, you insist you do not, here’s all the educational stuff, educate yourself, then come back to me and tell me how you’re wrong. Because I don’t need to explain this to them. There you go.

So, when we leave abusive relationships, we recognize the toxicity in the friendships, and we have to start punting them out, getting rid of the toxic people in our lives. Now, for a while that’s going to feel really lonely, it is, it’s gonna feel really empty. Because we’re getting rid of people who are not good for us, we’re letting them go, we’re just like, gonna wish you well by, you know, you’re getting rid of them. And it is feeling lonely at first because you’ve emptied out your friend closet. So, it’s just like when you do spring cleaning, and you get rid of all the clothes that don’t fit, have holes in them no longer suit you, etc, etc, etc. You have to remind yourself you are making room to spend time, quality time, your time, which is valuable with people who are like-minded, who see your worth, who value you, and who respect your boundaries. That’s what you’re doing. So, there’s that.

All right, let me get to the next question. Family origin going to contact. Not be so rigid? Oh, that’s interesting and keep the door open to families of origin? Nope. That is a recipe for disaster. So, there’s a difference between rigid thinking and good boundaries. Okay. Abusers will always claim that you’re being rigid. Always. They will always say oh, you’re rigid. Oh, you should forgive them. How many of us here have heard that BS? Oh, you need to forgive your abuser because they’re your parent. No, no, no, I don’t got to forgive any all I got to do is pay taxes and die. I don’t have to do a damn other thing. Seriously. It’s, that’s you don’t have to forgive them, guys. So, anyone who tells you, you have to forgive your abuser. Forgiveness is not about the abuser. It’s about our own self-esteem. And it’s about our own self peace. It’s letting them go. Not forgiving them. You know, I mean, it’s like okay, I see what you did. So, compassion versus idiot compassion. I see what you did. I understand why you are the way you are. You have no empathy cog. You’re crazy. Okay, guess what? I release you to the universe. Good luck. I wish you well. You know, that thing. That’s, that’s the kind of forgiveness we do it’s not the idiot compassion, which is Whoa, but you know, you’re my family and I need to forgive you. Meaning, I need to have you come back in and do the same abuse over and over and over again. No, a boundary is you abused me. I am not allowing you in my life to abuse me, I can forgive you in that I have compassion for you. I see why you did the things you did. But I don’t need to have you in my life. I do not need to have you around me. I can love you from afar. You know, I wish you well. And anyone who wants you to violate your own boundary, boy, howdy, bam, you need to take a look at that person because that’s toxic. So that’s not rigid. But abusers view boundaries as abnormal. Abusers view boundaries as rigid or pathological because they want to be able to mow right over them. So, anybody who’s not willing to respect your own boundary, that’s a huge red flag absofreakinglutely. So rigid would be like, they did a minor transgression and you’re cutting them off. Okay, that Houston, that would be a problem. But if there was abuse there, and you’re like, I’m done, I’m done being abused. I know my worth. I’m done. I’m done. That’s a boundary. Does that make sense? So yeah, these, these friends, you want to take a good look at because there’s so many red flags there. So all right. Well, how are we doing on time? Okay.

I’m finally cutting. Everyone toxic out of my life. The panic of the calm is knocking me on my butt. It makes me feel crazy. How do I feel safe in the calm? Oh, good point. When we come out of an abusive family, especially an abusive family. We are used to the chaos. We are used to the drama, we are used to the Drama Triangle. We’re used to the triangulation of communication. We’re used to the upset We’re used to the mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs. We’re used to the internal critic going blah, blah, blah and us going oh my god, shut up. Thanks for playing. Why? Because I say so. You know, we’re used to the crazy. Basically, there’s no other way to put it. We’re used to the upset. Okay. So, when we come out of it, and we’re working on ourselves, you know, we’re now into conscious incompetence. We’re working on it. We’re aware of it. That’s kind of where you’re at right now. It’s like you’re coming up against the wall of calm, and you’re like, Oh, crap, how do I deal with this? That’s when you want to really work with either your therapist on Okay, well, what is, what is it you think you’re missing? How old are you? What’s the fear? What did the calm mean? When you were in the abuse because usually, the calm before the storm sound familiar to anybody I know. For me, when my dad was about to go on to crazy town, there would be this eerie calm because he was thinking. He was like, What can I do to harm, to hurt,  to whatever, and then it would be BAM, you know, and then all the abuse would happen. So, you got to figure out why is the calm, scary? What’s going on. And meditation, this is the perfect time when it’s calm, to acknowledge it, to make friends with it, and to go you know what, it’s okay for it to be calm. So, mirror work as well. Hi, good to see you have a great day. You know what? It’s okay. To have calm, it’s okay. To have quiet It’s okay. To feel safe by myself. And that’s going to bring up a lot of emotion. And then what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna feel the emotion and you’re gonna write it out. How old do you feel? Inner Child workbook? How old do you feel? What’s going on? What’s the fear? Write it out. Start addressing that get with a good trauma therapist start addressing that figure out where the fear is what’s going on?

Kris Godinez  49:13

Why isn’t it okay to have calm and quiet? What happened when it was calm and quiet what happened next? That’s usually what the fear is not always you know, like I said, in my case, it was my dad figuring out what nasty thing he could do next. You could see the wheels turning and it was scary. So, you know, it’s, it’s really important to make friends with the calm, the quiet. You know, I value that it’s so funny. People are like, you know, oh my gosh, I can’t go to you know, to lunch by myself because I feel so awkward. Okay, stop. Go out to lunch with yourself. Allow yourself to feel awkward. Notice what the thoughts are. Write them down. Let’s work this through. Let’s figure this out. Where did this come from? Well, I’m worried about other people judging me. Sweetheart, everybody’s so in their own head. They’re not paying attention. What are your thoughts? Let’s bring this back. Back to you what’s going on. So, you make friends with yourself, this is a part of us making friends with ourselves, being able to spend time alone with ourselves and enjoy our own company and not fearing the calm, not fearing the silence. Enjoying it, or you can if you want to fill it with positive affirmations. I personally like the silence when I meditate, once I’m in the groove, it’s pretty quiet, there’s not a whole lot, you know, going on. It’s like, I’m just meditate. And it’s quiet. And that’s beautiful. That is a beautiful place to be able to get to. So, um, we’re gonna talk more about that next week, I want to talk about, you know, feeling safe, emotional safety, feeling safe. How do you get there? How do you do that? Now you’ve, you’ve done all of this, you’re putting yourself back together? How do we get from point A to point Z, and we’re going to talk about that it’s going to be mostly self-esteem. Spoiler alert, it’s going to be mostly self-esteem and boundaries. And when I when I tell people honest to God, listen to me. Now, believe me later. It really is self-esteem and boundaries, you get those two pieces into place, the rest of it falls into place, super easy. And until you get those two pieces rock solid into place, you’re always going to be looking outside of yourself, trying to find safety and security and happiness and whatever else. That’s other esteem. That is not self-esteem. So, give yourself permission. It’s Okay. It’s okay to have quiet. It’s okay. To have calm. It’s okay to have peace. It’s okay. Remind yourself. And you know, it’s gonna be how do I explain this? It’s kind of like when you first start meditating, when you first start meditating. And you, you’re confronted with the silence. It’s like, you can only stay there for like a minute or two when you first start doing it, because it’s so uncomfortable, right? So you back out. And then you try again, the next day. And eventually, you find that the time period grows from a minute or two to five minutes, to 10 minutes, to half an hour to an hour. You know, and you’re always surprised when it gets that long. Because when you’re done meditating, you’re like, holy crap. I’ve been doing that for an hour. Wow. You know, it’s just, it’s funny, because, in the beginning, you were like, I’ll never get there. Yeah, you will. But it takes practice, like anything else. And when it gets too uncomfortable back out, go do something else. And come back. You know, fill your head with positive affirmations if you have to. But start learning to love the silent start learning to love the calm. That’s that’s where the good stuff is. Does that make sense? Okay, let’s see how we’re doing on time. Oh, geez. Okay, let’s see if I can get to these questions. Okay. Um, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. It does make us feel crazy, guys. It does. And you’re not. So here’s the thing. Here’s what I want you to remember. The craziest people walking the face of the planet. And this includes abusers are the ones who sit there and insist that they’re 100% sane. How many times have I heard abusers say things like, you know, saying I’m so right. I’m never mistaken. I’m never wrong. I’m not I don’t ever get lost. I just get temporarily confused. That was my dad’s favorite. They insist that they’re sane. the crazy people never take a look and question themselves ever. The sane people are the ones who go oh my god, I feel insane. Oh my God, I feel crazy. Where is this coming from? What is this? Am I right? Am I wrong? The sane people question themselves, insane people, never do it. So the fact that you’re feeling crazy. Congratulations. You’re sane! So yeah, it’s, it’s a journey, bun. It’s a journey. So you just do the best you can keep at it. Enjoy the silence as long as you can stand it back out when it gets too much. Fill it with positive affirmations. Next day, try again. And try again for longer each time. So that’s the best thing you can do. So yeah, so yeah, we all feel crazy when we come out of these relationships because we don’t know what healthy is. And when we finally do know what healthy is. And we start practicing it. It feels uncomfortable because we’re not used to it. So it’s a matter of getting used to the healthy behavior. Absolutely.

How do I stop wanting to take revenge on my ex for how he treated me? Sometimes it’s small but other days I want to curb stomp him for the abuse. So, the anger is normal. The anger is normal wanting revenge is not. So revenge is a fool’s game. Revenge is a fool’s game and the only person is going to get hurt as you so it’s like picking up two hot coals intending to throw them at somebody else. You’re the only one getting burned. So what you’re going to do is you’re going to acknowledge your anger, you’re going to validate your anger, you are going to either go find a punching bag, like a real punching bag, not a person, a punching bag and start working out the anger on the punching bag with all the abuse that you went through and get to the softer emotions underneath, which I suspect are the hurt, and the sad, and the betrayal and all of that. Or you’re going to write it out deer EX, you did this, you did this, you did this, you did this you SOB bla bla bla bla bla bla. And you see where I’m going with that, you’re going to get it out of your head, you’re going to get it onto paper, you’re going to say everything you need to because they are never going to read it, you are never going to send it if you send this letter, all you’re doing is making another connection to them so that they can continue abusing you and that you can be crazy in their eyes. So no, don’t send it. So what you’re going to do is you’re going to write and you’re going to burn and at the end of the letter, you let them know in no uncertain terms, we are done. You’re a douchebag I’m not allowing you to live rent-free in my head. One more second, buh bye, go pound sand. Thank you, you’re going to trot it out to the barbecue and burn it. Now. Here’s an interesting thought. When I was working with my therapist, and this was years ago, and I was so angry at my dad and I just wanted him to get it. And of course, he was dead by that time. You know, and my therapist stopped me and said you are trying to keep him close to you by bringing him up with the anger and wanting revenge. And I went then it was like a light bulb went on. clouds parted. Sunshine came down angels were singing. You know, it’s like, yeah, that was exactly what I was doing. I was trying to keep him alive so I could fix him. Even though I wanted to hurt him. I wanted to fix him. So yeah, so that’s another thing to take a look at is this need for revenge a way to keep them close? away to bring them up in your mind so that you release the endorphins, the dopamine, norepinephrine, the intermittent positive rewards, etc. And if so, you do thought stopping? Nope. We are done. I don’t need to bring you up in my mind. I’ve written you a letter. I’ve worked out on the punching bag. I cannot heal you. You are beyond my means to heal. Revenge is not going to do a damn thing. Have a nice life. I wish you well. Bye-bye. And then you go do something else. Revenge is a fool’s game. And it’s a way to keep us connected to the abuser either literally because they you know you’ve sent them the revenge letter in which case they’re just gonna abuse you more. Or you’re bringing them up angry, angry, angry. I’m thinking about them all the time. I just want to hurt them. I did it. I did it. Okay, do the letter. Get it out. Burn it. Let it and them go. Okay, there we go. Thoughts stopping thoughts stopping? Okay, let’s see. Um, I think that was it. Yeah, we’re good. Alright, kiddos, so go have a wonderful week. Drink plenty of water. And I will talk to you guys later. Bye.

Kris Godinez  58:09

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

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