Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

All right, so current events um, so much has been happening this week. It’s hard to kind of pick what current event to talk about. So I’m going to talk about several. One: we’ve been having more mass shootings… what the actual oh my god again, mental health, gun control mental health something needs… something… something’s got to go something’s got to budge. Something’s got to happen. Because this is getting crazy, you know, guys, um, so there is that. Number two: John Fetterman. I am so proud of him because he admitted, you know, I had a stroke, I have depression, and I’m seeking help. Good for him! We need more people that are in the public eye to talk about the struggles that they have with depression or anxiety or whatever so that it stops getting stigmatized, so I’m super proud of him for being open and honest. Yes, I am depressed. Yes, I am seeking inpatient help. Yes, I am doing this. Yes, I’m doing that. Good job, honestly. And let’s take the stigma out of it. When somebody goes and asks for help. I’m like, thrilled because when somebody famous asks for help, it makes it easier for the rest of us to ask for help. So, one thing that came up for a lot of my clients this week was asking for help. And then when John Fetterman did that, I was like, Wow, good. Yes. See, he can do it. You can do it. It’s okay. It’s okay to ask for help.

So, anyway, there is that. In other news. In other news, John and I did a thing, so we were planning on coming to Santa Barbara. So, thank you to everybody that came out to Santa Barbara. Planning to come to Santa Barbara anyway and had this trip all planned. And the rescue called us and said, hey, there’s a dog that looks just like Moana in a kill shelter. Same area, would you be interested, so we adopted another dog. So, we will be getting Lucky Lou on next Sunday. So, I’m very excited about that. He’s apparently a German Shepherd mix, which just cracks me up because both the dogs that we got from the Southwest Collie rescue are German shepherd mixes How does Yeah, anyway, it works. So, we will be getting we will be getting Lucky Lou. He’s a bigger boy, though. He’s like 60 pounds. So that’s going to be that’s going to be a bigger dog. So anyway, that’s that.

Um, so that is current events. Just to recap there this we’ve got to do something about the mass shootings. We’ve got to do something about mental health in this country. Seriously, I’m proud of John Fetterman for speaking up and saying, Hey, I’m depressed, had a stroke. I’m depressed. And I just want to point out people, statistically, people who have had strokes very often have depression. So, I’m proud of him for bringing attention to it and going and getting help and normalizing asking for help. And I want everyone to normalize asking for help. It’s o k. So that being said, let’s move on to today’s topic.

So, age is just a number. So, there’s a couple of ways I want to hit this. So basically, when we’ve been with an abuser, or we’re when we are in an abusive Corporation, job situation, whatever. Ageism is a thing. And it’s a thing for men and women. And the people who keep ageism going generally are narcissists. So, let’s be clear about that. Narcissists hate when their partner’s age. Narcissists hate when they are reminded that they are aging. So very often, and I’ve had several people writing into me in the last few weeks going, you know, my partner left me for this, you know, 20-year-old or my partner left me for this, you know, 20 years younger person, you know, I feel old, I feel awful, I feel terrible. I feel abandoned. I feel… well that’s what abusers do. And Kim Saeed posted something today I thought was beautiful. She talked about aging as well. And she was saying, you know, I’m older, I quit dyeing my hair, you know, we’ve put on weight I’ve put on weight, and you know what, my spouse still loves me, my spouse still thinks I’m attractive because that spouse is normal. John is the same way, John there is not a day that goes by that he doesn’t tell me he thinks I’m beautiful and sexy and everything else and I sometimes believe him, and I sometimes don’t so, but you know, self-esteem, I’m still working on it. So, the point being is, is that healthy normal partners value their partner. They see their partner as a life mate. They see them as a life help, they see them as an equal, and they see them as somebody to enjoy spending time with… you literally marry your best friend kind of thing.

So um, it but what abusers do is they see the partner aging, and they can’t handle that they’re aging so to create the illusion that they are young or to create the illusion that they are still powerful, still desirable. Still…. Whatever, they will go in search of a trophy spouse, male or female, doesn’t matter. I’ve seen female nurses do this as well, and we’re going to talk about this, but the effect that it has on a sane spouse is that it makes you question your sexuality, you know, are you sexy? Are you pretty? Are you attractive? Are you handsome? Are you desirable? Are you this? Are you that? And they also very much in in a lot of corporations give the message that once you are gray haired that you are suddenly somehow stupid or senile or, you know, unable to do things or can’t remember or whatever. And again, this is all narcissistic. This is all narcissistic, this is not reality. The myth is that you know, oh, well, everyone, when they age, they become grumpy and mean and, and don’t do anything and don’t go anywhere. And you know Moo!! Sorry about that. But John and I travel all over the place, and we’re traveling all over the place with the pups Well, soon-to-be pups plural. So, you know, it’s like age is a number, but Narcissus will use age as yet another hammer to hit us over the head with so also in the news looking at, you know, a certain actor who is now in his 50s dating a 19-year-old does anybody else see a problem with this? I sure as hell do. You know, it’s like, what is this about? So, there were some there were some articles I wanted to pull up.

So, the first one is, is ageism a real thing? Is ageism really a thing? Isn’t it a sad fact that with age, everyone loses their memory, patients, utility, worth, and becomes increasingly more depressed, grumpy, helpless, Ill, incompetent, lonely, stubborn, unattractive, and burdensome to society? No, that is a myth. Those are not facts. Those are myths perpetuated by people who are terrified of aging. It’s true aging and dying. It’s a natural thing not aging, not dying is unnatural. There’s some weird going on. Oh, vampires. Um, hello. And this is an article written by Sherry levy PhD. Taking ageism. Seriously Is ageism. A real thing on psychology today. Those are not facts. Those are myths based on ageism, negative stereotyping, including prejudice and discrimination towards the older end of the age spectrum. Ageism is everywhere. And yet, it is the most socially normalized of any prejudice and is not widely challenged like racism or sexism. This is according to the World Health Organization. Normalization refers to the discriminatory employment practices that pass over a highly qualified older worker for hire and promotions that layoff competent that layoff competent older workers at a higher rate than other workers, and that apply a mandatory retirement age to workers who are fully capable and who need and or want to continue working. So, here’s the deal. Nancy and I were watching God. What was the name of that show? The Mask Singer? Was that it? Yeah, the masked singer and one of the contestants was Dick Van Dyke.

Kris Godinez  09:42

He is 97 years old 97, and he is in great shape because he dances every damn day, and he keeps his mind active every damn day. Just because you age does not mean you suddenly stop, unless you want to, and I don’t recommend it because when you stop moving is when you start falling apart. So, Dick Van Dyck is a great example June Lockhart. She’s also 97 years old. She’s another actress. She is very politically active. She does stuff all the time. She still does voiceover work, you know. So not everybody reaches that retirement age and wants to retire. Even if I retired, I would not retire. Does that make sense? It’s like, I might cut my hours back, I might do a little bit more traveling with the pup, I might stay home and pet the pup instead of doing other things, but I’m not going to ever stop because that’s just not who I am. You know. And it’s really frustrating because narcissists are the ones that love to put people in these neat little cubes. If they can’t put you into a cube, they don’t know how to deal with you. And so, it’s, it’s beautiful for me to see people like Dick Van Dyke and June Lockhart and me and other people who are aging and refusing to give in to the stereotypical societal bs of Oh, I’m just going to you know, dodder around and not live a life you know. So, but remember, the only people that don’t want us to live lives fully. That would be narcissists. So, there is that hold on back to the aging thing, and this is all connected to the way they discard their spouses as well. And we’re going to get to that. Normalized additionally refers to huge and profitable industries of over-the-hill birthday party supplies, old goats birthday cards, and emergency potty and diaper kit, gag gifts, poking fun of the elderly. I don’t like any of that. Okay.

A notable fact is that older adults fill significant economic needs of society in unpaid work, shouldering more volunteer hours than any other age group as well as providing free childcare to grandchildren, with estimates ranging from 25 to 50% of grandparents serving as primary caregivers or consistent part-time caregivers. Ageism is a threat to anyone’s health. Numerous studies by Becca Levy and colleagues at Yale show that individuals who buy into the negative and inaccurate depictions of older adulthood have worse health and live shorter lives, whereas individuals with positive views of aging lived, on average, 7.5 years longer and fully and healthily and happily, negative images of older adulthood that are perpetuated through society can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. And we’re going to get into this such as that the individual adopts the negative image leads sedentary lifestyles consistent with that image and thereby suffer declines in overall health and ultimately a shorter lifespan.

So, narcissists love to tell people they can’t do stuff. They do. So, if somebody is a talented artist or if somebody is a talented speaker or a singer or actor or you know a scientist or whatever, they will start sabotaging that kid that person and tell them they can’t do it. One of the ways they do that is you’re too old. Oh, you’re too old. You can’t do that. Oh, you’re too old. You… Why would you even want to? You’re too old. Why would you want to go back to school? You’re too old. I’m sorry. Moana, I’m going to move again. Absolutely, that is such a load of bull Tinky. You’re never too old, but they want us to get stuck in that victim mode. And because a lot of the covert narcissists, all of the covert narcissists are victims, you know, the ultimate victim. And if they’re a victim, they want you to be a victim too. And if you do well, you make them look bad. Just keep that in mind. The next time somebody tells you, you’re too old to do something, or that you shouldn’t do it, or what good is it? I’ll tell you what… I am studying right now. A textbook on forensic psychology because I find it fascinating. I do. It’s like, I love the whole forensic psychology and and tracking the criminals and how to catch them and things like that. That, to me is really fascinating. I am never going to stop learning ever, ever. Because there is this huge, beautiful world out here, and why would I? There’s so much to learn. There’s so much to figure out and to process and to do and be and all sorts of cool fun stuff. I learned to surf when I was in my 50s or early 50s. I’m going to be 58 tomorrow. You know I, you know I do all sorts of I snorkel, I go swimming in the ocean. John hates the ocean because sharks and jellyfish. He doesn’t like the jellyfish either. But it’s like we do stuff, you know. And there are naysayers out there. Oh, well. Why would you want to do that? Why would you do you think why? Why? Why? Well, because makes me happy.

Kris Godinez  14:52

Got a problem with that? Yeah, seriously, and they do. They do have a problem with that. And they love to tell people you can’t because you’re too old. You’re not going to understand or you’re not going to be able to do it. Well, who cares? Do it anyway, that’s their whole point is to stop people from doing things. And in our society, we have unconsciously bought into that whole. Well, you can’t do it because you’re too old, or you can’t do it because you’re too young. You can’t do it because fill in the blank, you cannot believe these people, anybody who predicts your doom is talking about themselves, or they are wishing you to fail because they don’t want you to outdo them. So, say, for example, you’re at an older age, and you decide to go back to school,  hazzah! You know, be careful the student loans. I wouldn’t recommend it. If you can pay for it yourself, do it yourself, go to community college, or just do stuff online. But they don’t want us to expand our horizons. They don’t want us to grow. They don’t want us to learn. They don’t want us to be better than them. Even though it’s not us being better than them. It’s us just personal growth. But they don’t want us to outshine them, outdo them or out know them. Does that make sense? So, there was that? That ageism is a real thing. Ageism is a huge drain on the economy. Becky Levi and colleagues estimated that ageism experienced by adults aged 60 years and older in the United States across a one year resulted in $17.4 million dollar cases of health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease, and diabetes, with a one-year price tag of 63 billion. So yeah, it’s like you cannot buy into the I’m going to sit in a rocker and just die. Basically, you can’t it’s it. They want us to just keep in mind narcissist wants their target of abuse dead. And they will do it any way they can. And ageism is one of the ways to do it. And ageism has been institutionally accepted, like in corporations, and my other sister, my middle sister, she was telling me she’s like, well, I have to keep dyeing my hair, and I have to keep in good shape. And I have to do that because I’m 67. And they’ll, you know, if they realize how old I am, they’ll get rid of me. And I’m sitting here thinking to myself, What a horrible way of living or living under that fear. Or, you know, because to me, it’s like, well, what does it matter if you’re 67 or if you’re, you know, 27? If you’re the right person for the job, you’re the right person for the job, and Only an idiot would get rid of the right person for the job. So there that is.

So why do narcissists date younger women or younger men? So, this is something that aging narcissists do. So, remember, when the partner starts aging, showing their age, a narcissist starts freaking out because now this is a reflection back on them that they too are aging, and this is not okay. So, they will they see the partner as not a partner. They view the partner again as an object. Hold on. Narcissistic men often choose to date much younger, attractive women because they view themselves as status enhancers. A younger woman is more likely to be impressed by a narcissist than a woman his own age who has had a full life of experiences of their own. For narcissistic men, attractive young women are often viewed as interchangeable commodities, not individuals.

So again, you look at Hollywood, and you look at a 30–40-year difference. They’re looking for the status symbol they’re looking for, you know, make me look good, make me look good. I don’t want to be reminded that I’m aging. I want to be reminded that I’m still virile and desirable, and this and that and everything else. And so, they dump the partner or the wife or whoever that they’ve had for years, and they suddenly start dating somebody who’s 20 years younger than they are or 30 years younger than they are. That’s what narcissists do because they do not want to be reminded that they too, are aging and are going to die because they can’t cope with it. They can’t. It’s just not there. It’s not in their wheelhouse, and female narcissists do this as well. I’ve had several family members contact me about their female nervousness, and they will they’ll be prone to the love scams. That you see because they want to believe that this 20-year-old Hulk hunk Hulk hunk is attracted to them. And so, they’ll literally go looking for, you know, they’ll be sugar mamas to these younger guys because they want to feel young, and they do the same thing that the male narcissists do. It’s crazy. It’s like there’s a playbook they do the same damn thing, and they’re delusional about it, so they think in their head that because they’re dating somebody young that they’re young and that they’re never going to die. And that’s simply not the case and they will blow entire inheritances, blow all their money on sugar daddy, sugar Mommy, you know, situations to keep that illusion of being young because it’s all about being young.

Okay, and they can’t accept the aging part at all. Okay. It becomes Okay, so the partner in that case of getting the younger one, younger women are easier to impress. They don’t have as much experience. They don’t know the red flags. They tend to throw their money around, and you know, sugar daddy, that type of thing. Sugar Mommy. Younger women are valued more than older women as arm candy. Narcissistic men tend to have shallow relationships. Younger women make the man feel younger; younger men make the narcissistic female feel younger. This one’s geared towards the narcissistic male, but I have another one on aging narcissists, females. And younger women may be more naive. So, when, and like I said, I’ve had several people writing and going, oh my god, I got dumped for a 20-year-old, what the hell you know what’s going on? Well, they’re narcissists. You don’t just throw away your partner if you’ve got a good relationship, you know, it’s like the only reason to divorce would be abuse. You’ve grown apart, you know. It’s just not working. You know, whatever. But if you’ve got a working relationship, you don’t throw them away because one is showing their age or both are showing their age actually, but the narcissist can’t admit that. So um, okay, so that was the aging Why do narcissists men date younger women, but Narcissistic females do the same thing. Narcissistic females Hang on just a second. Okay?

What happens to narcissistic females is they start doing you guns, you’re not good enough, etc., etc., etc., manipulating, controlling, they start doing plastic surgery, men do that as well. They, they become more toxic, they don’t become more subdued, they become sneakier in what they do. And the best way to survive one of these types is to get the hell away from them. So, I have dealt with several female narcissists that did the plastic surgery like nobody’s business, they would tell their partner that they’re old, and you know, worthless, and this and that, and the other thing, and the partner believed it. And it’s not true. So, and then, of course, they dumped them, divorce them got with a younger partner, who then was a scam artist and took them for all this money because it was a sugar mommy situation. And it’s the same thing with the guys. It’s like, it’s all they’ve project out is what I’m trying to say. So, if you’re dealing with a corporation, or a partner, or somebody who’s like, well, you’re too old. Better old than dead, thank you, I’ll take old over dead, thank you very much, you know, I still got stuff I got to do, so that they’re projecting, so you’ve got to understand anybody who tries to pigeonhole you and put you into a neat little box and say, You’re too old. You can’t do this, or you’re too old. You shouldn’t be sexy. Oh, my God, there was one that wrote me this nasty gram and was like, How dare you wear makeup? And how dare you try to be sexy, and I’m like, do not try, and I am deal with it. You know, it’s just, it’s like,

Kris Godinez  24:06

I’m sorry, this is people get to be people, okay? And it doesn’t matter how old you are. It doesn’t matter how old you are. Don’t let somebody put you in a box and tell you you can’t go back to school because you’re too old. Or you can’t learn something new because you’re too old. Or you know that you’re being discarded because you’re too old. No, you’re being discarded because this abusive piece of doo-doo is needing somebody to be arm candy. So that person feels young, male or female. So, remember, it’s never about the target of abuse, everything nasty they’re saying is really about them. So, when they point the finger at you and go, you’re too old. I’m replacing you with a newer model. Basically, they’re talking about themselves. They’re terrified of being too old. Well, the only way you can ever be too old is if you allow yourself to be too old because the reality of it is you either age or you die, period. There’s not much choice in that one. It’s choice A, choice B, well, I’m sorry, I think I’d rather age. So, they are projecting their fear of aging and their fear of death onto the partner. It is not the partner. You’re not too old. You’re not. And remember, they don’t want you to outdo them. They don’t want you to outshine them. They don’t want you to do better than them. So that is something to remember. Okay, hold on, let me get back to this other one. Okay.

Never argue with the abuser; you will not when they think they are right. So, and they’re dangerous because, like I said, their ultimate goal is to get you to stop living. They don’t want you to live. They don’t want you to have fun. They don’t want you to grow. They don’t want you to expand your world. You know, I saw something an article, and I did not post it. I’ll have to go back and find it. And it was all about, you know if you start having the thought, I deserve better, you do. You do deserve better. If somebody is putting you down because you’re aging if somebody is putting you down and telling you can’t do something, how dare you do something? How dare you do something that’s not, you know, condoned by the narcissist or the corporation or the whatever, go do it anyway. You know, that’s just I’ve always been like that. It’s like the second you tell me, No, you can’t do it. I’m like, hold my beer, even though I don’t drink. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, watch me, watch me go do this. You just watch me. Because I’m not going to put up with that. I’m not going to put up with somebody trying to pigeonhole me or trying to tell me I can’t do something that I really want to go do. You know, like, I’ve had people be nasty. When I was going to surf, they were like, Oh, you’re too old, you can’t handle it, you can’t, and I’m like, watch me, I’m going to do it. Even if I fail, I don’t care. I just want to learn how to surf before I die. Thank you very much. So, you know, there it is. And you go do it. And you do not allow the abuser to stop you from pursuing your degree, your knowledge, your adventure, your sexuality, your dancing ability, your creativity. They will try to stop all of this and with the aging stuff. It’s they’re afraid. They’re terrified. You show me a narcissist, male or female, and I will show you somebody who is frightened to death of the great beyond because they can’t control it. And usually, they hide behind the whole communal narcissist thing, you know, it’s like, well, you know, I’m, I’m going to be a cult leader. And I can control it because I’m in direct communication with God. Right? And I’m in direct communication with Queen Elizabeth, how’s that?

You know, I mean, so they, they are communal narcissists, and they don’t want to age, and they don’t want to die, and they’re terrified. And so, when their partner starts showing signs of aging, that’s when they dump them and replace them with a younger partner. And it’s not about the partner who got dumped. I want to make that very clear. Everyone ages guys, even the abusers, but they’re trying to run from the reality of life, which is we all age and we all die at some point. And so that’s why that’s why they do that. Yep. So, there’s that. All right. So, watch me and, I’ll do it twice and take pictures. I like that. Yeah. And I do. So yeah, so it’s like, if somebody is trying to crush your dreams, and they try to say you’re too old. You can tell them for me to go pound sand seriously because that’s a load of crap. You know, age is a number. You do what you can with what you can, I mean, if you’ve got physical limitations, you do what you can within those physical limitations, but you don’t just stop, and you don’t just, you know, wither away. That is not what this lifetime is about. It is about experiencing, it is about doing and seeing and being and going and having fun and adopting dogs and, you know, all that sort of fun stuff. So, anyway, there that is yeah, you shouldn’t do that because you’re male or female. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I’ve gotten Hmm. You, you probably would believe the number of times I’ve been called a mouthy, broad, broad, the B word, not broad, but you know what I’m saying? So yeah, it’s very true. And you just kind of you kind of got to consider the source and let it go. If it’s coming from a narcissist, if it’s coming from somebody that is ill-intent and toxic. Don’t believe them? Don’t believe they’re talking about themselves and their limitations. Not you, not you. I mean, when I first started doing this, I can’t tell you the number of therapists are like, Oh my God, you’re going to be out there doing this, and you’re going to be you can’t do that. Why not? Why the hell not? Well, You’re doing it for free because I want people to understand what kind of monsters are out there and how to avoid them.

Also, public service, which we should all be doing as counselors. Oh, gosh, did I say that out loud? Yes, it did. So, you know, counselors should be doing some sort of public service. So, there we go. Right. Okay. Where am I going? Questions? Let’s get to the questions. So basically, yes, narcissistic male just wrap this up to summarize. They are obsessed with age because it’s a reflection on them. And they don’t want to admit that they’re aging and dying. Women and men to them are objects, no more valuable than this coffee mug. Seriously, we are objects to be used, male or female. Both male and female nurses will replace their partner if they can, you know, and they’ll usually use money as the little you know, carrot. You know, sugar daddy, sugar, Mama, that kind of thing. And, yeah, so when somebody tells you, you can’t do something, I seriously want you to go do it anyway. Especially if it’s something you love, and it’s good for you, and you would enjoy it. It’s like, do it. Just do it. And especially if they tell you you’re too old. Oh, that’s when I love to be like, Okay, let me just show you how it’s done, kid. You know, because it’s like, I’m not putting up with the ageism. I’m not putting up with the sexism. I’m not putting up with it. I’m not racism or anything else. So, there it is. All right. Now let’s go to the questions. Okay, hang on. Okay. All right.

Do ageing narcissists use their age to gain sympathy? Absolutely. You betcha. So those are usually the covert narcissist because they’re the ones that are very much into the martyr stuff. You know, poor me. I’m getting old. I can’t do anything. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah. My late narc. Mom was always bringing up how old she was to try and make people do stuff, how old she was. And to try to make people do stuff for her. And to show others what a bad daughter I was. Oh, Frick. Yeah, yeah, that’s that would be a covert narcissist. So covert narcissists are very much into the whole, you know, I’m a, you know, oh, thank you.

Kris Godinez  32:11

You know, I’m too old. I can’t do I can’t do this. You know, if they really truly can’t do this, then they really truly can’t do that. You know, if there’s, you know, physical limitations, that’s one thing. But if they’re physically sound, and they could do it, and they play the victim, that’s a covert narcissist and covert narcissist. Don’t wait till old age to do that. They’ll do that when they’re younger as well. It’s like they’ll play up not being able to do things even though they’re able to do it. Does that make sense? So, it’s like they play the victim. They play the victim. Okay, um, and they use it to smear you. Yeah, you betcha. So don’t believe it. Don’t believe it. Don’t believe it. Just walk away. That’s the best thing you can do.

Do narcs know they are getting older? Yes, they do. But they don’t like it. And they will fight it tooth and nail. My narc. as she got older, behaved more and more like a child. The older she got, the more infantile she was, yes. That is very common. So, they know they’re aging. They don’t like it. They don’t want to acknowledge it. And so, they think in their crazy head if they start acting like a child that they’re a child again, you know, and also, that’s a little bit of that covert narcissism.

So, I’ve mentioned this before, I have run into cases multiple times where the narcissist will have an obsession with their own feces, and they’ll spread the feces in the bathroom or the kitchen or whatever. And they’ll demand that somebody else clean it up. That’s a narcissistic thing that I that’s happened in several cases, not just one or two several cases. So yeah, they revert to these very bizarre behaviors, either the infantilism, you know, do everything for me, or they spread their feces everywhere and then claim it was an accident. Not exactly an accident if you’re spelling sentences out on the wall. So, yeah, they do that. Okay.

How do I reconcile my outer facade, pretending to be socially savvy, less oversharing, etc? With the inner child who wants to self-sabotage? Will there always be friction? Okay, here’s the deal. When we’ve been raised by narcissists or borderlines. We are socially awkward, like nobody’s business. I don’t know about you, but somebody told me one time that I was an extroverted introvert. I was like, Isn’t that an oxymoron? So, it’s kind of like I can be extroverted when I need to, and really What I really like is hanging out with my dog and my husband and my sister. And that’s it. That’s all I want.

So, I’m it we are socially handicapped because they’ve never allowed us to be ourselves, be comfortable in our own skin, etc., etc., etc. And when we find ourselves doing something that wasn’t okay, when we were a kid, that inner child is going to pop up and be like, Oh my God, we have to sabotage. Oh my god…. So, here’s what you’re going to do. The Self-Esteem Workbook Glen Schiraldi, I kid you not, I’m not just saying these books because I like saying them 100,000 million times a year. The Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. The next book, The Inner Child Workbook by Catherine Taylor or Lucia Cappacchione, one of those two are going to be really helpful for you.

So, when we have been raised by a narcissist, or an abuser, or borderline or whatever, and that child wants to sabotage, there’s not always going to be friction because once you start working with the inner child, you’re going to start helping her understand her or him, why this is not a good idea to sabotage and why you don’t need to. So, part of it, let’s start at the very beginning. So, mirror work, you’re going to look in the mirror, and you’re going to be like, Hi, good to see you have a great day, you know what, it’s okay for you to socialize, it’s okay for you to enjoy being around people, it’s okay to speak your opinion. It’s okay. You give yourself permission. Then as you work through The Inner Child Workbook, you start having a conversation with that little kid.

So, something you can do is you go to a super safe place. So, we’re going to do a little bit of guided imagery. You’re going to go to a super safe place. I want you to call that little kid to you. Hi, little one. How are you have him or her come over and sit next to you give them a big old hug. And ask them what they need, what do they need, nine times out of 10, that little one is going to say I just need to be protected. I just need to be heard. I just need to be safe. You got a kid. I got your back, I got your back, you’re safe, you’re protected, I hear you. Now, in exchange for that, you’ve got to let me be the adult. And it’s okay for us to socialize. It is it’s okay for us to be comfortable in our own skin. And then, whenever you’re ready, take a deep breath, open your eyes. So basically, whenever you need to talk to that inner child, you just do that, you know, like you notice you’re sabotaging is like okay, little one, you’re safe. It’s okay. Don’t need to do that, you know, you can go into the bathroom and do it really quickly. Or you can just quickly Hey, little one, we’re safe. You know that kind of thing. And so, it’s, it’s really important to keep a conversation going with the inner children to help them understand that mom and dad were disordered. And their way of doing things was not healthy or normal or anything else. Does that make sense? So yeah, you want to stay in touch with your inner child.

Now at first, there is going to be that desire to sabotage. Absolutely. Because you’ve been doing it for how many years? And it’s been trained into us, you know? So, um, you know, when I first started doing the shows, I was terrified, honestly, couldn’t tell, but I was because it was that, oh my god, you know, I’m going to get punished for putting myself out there. You know, and I had to really be like, No, I’m safe. I’m okay. Everything’s fine. And if somebody tries to punish me, well, they’re a douchebag. So, you know. So there that is. So no, there will not always be friction. Once you start working with the inner child, once you start doing the self-esteem workbook and understanding your value, and you worth, you are worthy. And it’s okay for you to be loved. And it’s okay for you to be liked. And it’s okay for you to socialize and it’s okay for you to put yourself out there. I think that’s what’s really important because remember, if we’ve got narcissistic parents, it’s a constant competition, and they’re constantly man, my dad’s favorite saying, and I’d be flipping the bird right now if I could, but I can’t. My dad’s favorite saying was children are to be seen and not heard. He was the biggest a hole I’ve ever met in my life. And children are to be seen and not heard, is that’s the most abusive thing ever. It’s like, okay, so you’re not listening to your kid. So, you’re not validating their existence. You’re not understanding them. You’re not validating what they’re feeling. Wow!  There’s somebody that should never have had children. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, they don’t ever give us the right messages or training or whatever we need to be a fully functioning social creature and human beings are functional social creatures. You know, we love to be around other people when we are healthy. Introverts not so much. It’s a little overwhelming sometimes. But even introverts like to come out every once in a while, and then when their batteries get shut down, they’re like, Okay, that’s enough. Thank you, and then they go back into their shell, and that’s okay. But you know, it’s, it’s really important to honor the fact that we are social creatures, just like dogs, dogs, like other dogs. Oh, my God, our dogs hanging out. How cute is that? Um, so anyway, all right. So no, there will not always be friction, but you’ve got to work on that and help them understand why they don’t need to sabotage anymore.

So honestly, part of the reason why inner children sabotage is they’re trying to please the absentee abuser. Because it’s a habit that we got into, it’s like, well, if I damn myself first, if I hurt myself first, then they won’t do it. They won’t punish me. If I punish myself first, they won’t punish me. And you’ve got to get out of that. It’s like, no, they don’t need to punish you. You don’t need to punish you; inner child does not need to punish you. You don’t deserve that. So, work on the Self-Esteem Workbook. Okay? Work on the worth part. Understanding your value and your worth hugely important. You don’t deserve to be abused by anybody, not even your inner child. So, this is a learned behavior that we did, we got his kids to try to keep us safe, and it doesn’t work anymore. It’s maladaptive. It’s a maladaptive behavior that used to work that no longer works. So, the best way to get rid of it, recognize it, acknowledge it, call it out, replace it with the healthy behavior. So, work on the Self-Esteem Workbook work on The Inner Child Workbook, either Catherine Taylor or Lucia Cappacchione. And that’s going to be your best bet. Okay, um, doo doo, doo doo doo. I hope that answered the question. Okay.

Kris Godinez  42:08

Why would a separated man who has not lived with his wife for four years give dates he is going to divorce and never follows through? Oh, boy. Well, narcissists are abusers. Let’s be clear. And they’re also pathological liars. So pathological lying is when somebody just lies for the hell of it. Or they lie because they think they’re going to get something and, in this case, probably sex. So, they lead people on Oh, you know, I’m separated. But you know, we’re going to get divorced. Oh, it’s going to happen. Oh, yeah. Ice cubes would have a better chance in hell. You know what I’m saying? So, they do that because they’re trying to use the person, and they’re giving their future faking that great example of future faking? Oh, it’s, it’s going to be great. You know, I’m going to get divorced on this date. And you and I all get together and get married or get engaged or, you know, whatever. And so yeah, they do that because they want to future fake you into thinking that you have got a shot at being the next Mr. or Mrs. Whatever, you know. And the reality is, they’re never going to get divorced. Because why would they because narcissists are evil. And they don’t divorce, especially if there’s children involved sometimes because they don’t want to have to pay child support. They don’t want to have to pay alimony. They don’t want to have to pay for a lawyer. They don’t want to have to whatever. Does that make sense? So, you know, they’ll, they’ll do that. Yeah. Pathological liars. They lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. If their lips are moving, they’re lying. So there that is. So yeah, it’s future faking. That’s why they do that.

Um, I am 60 been married for 38 years. I like taking care of myself, like trying to look pretty. I am feminine and enjoy clothes and manicures. Is it narcissism or just self-care? That self-care. That’s just self-care. That’s what I’m saying. Narcissism is. How do I explain this? Narcissism is when they take it to the extreme like these women that go and have them, you know, and again, if they’re doing it because it’s something that’s bothered them all their years, and they want to fix it great. But a lot of the Narcissist females are the ones who get the radical surgeries done. You know, like, I saw this one woman at a concert. Oh my god. She was in her 80s, and she’d had a boob job done, but it was not a good boob job. It looked like she had to like literal basketballs stuck to her chest. And she didn’t take care of anything else. And it was weird. You know what I’m saying? It was kind of like not found in nature kind of thing. But if it made her feel good God bless her. So, self-care is what makes you feel good without hurting anybody else. So, a lot of times what female narcissist will do is there’s an ulterior motive they want to catch a younger man, they want a sugar daddy, they want, you know, a sugar baby that they can, you know, arm candy, that kind of thing.

So, if you’re doing makeup and you’re being feminine and you’re enjoying it, and you’re, you’re getting your nails done, hello, girl, you know what I’m saying? You know, I like my nails done. I don’t like my natural nails because they’re nonexistent. They don’t have good strong nails. So yeah, I like getting my nails done. I put makeup on once a week because I’m lazy. This is the only time I wear makeup people the rest of the time, no makeup. So, you know if it makes you feel good, that’s great. If you’re doing it to get something, then No, you do it for yourself. You don’t do it for an ulterior motive. Does that make sense? Narcissists are the ones that are doing it for an ulterior motive, you know, it’s like, I’m going to go trolling for a younger man or a younger woman or whatever. So there, that is okay. Um, yeah, when taking care of you, you like taking care of yourself, that’s self-care. That is totally self-care, working out self-care.

Okay, I deflect a lot in therapy and in general.  Tips to make me stop doing it so much. So, when we’ve been raised by abusers, I would use humor a lot to kind of deal with the pain and deal with the stuff. So, deflection is a choice. And it just basically, and not using humor all the time is a choice. So, it’s just basically going. I really want to work on this. And I really want to allow myself to be genuine and authentic and real and not deflect with humor, and not deflect with defensiveness and not just see where I’m going with that. It’s like, I want to be a real person. So, I am going to work on that. And it’s a choice, you know. And so, when you catch yourself deflecting, that’s when you kind of got to go, You know what I just deflected. Let me let’s roll the tape here. Let me let me try this again. So, you got to catch yourself. Nobody else is going to catch you. Nobody else is going to catch you. You’ve got to catch yourself because your therapist cannot follow you around every day all day long. And in therapy, it’s we do that because we’re afraid, you know, it’s like, we deflect with humor or we deflect with anger, or we deflect with, you know, blaming or whatever, because we’re afraid because we’re getting down to the core issues. So really, it’s comforting ourselves, hey, we’re safe. It’s okay. The therapist is a safe if you’re with a good therapist. Place. It’s a good place that we can discuss this. And it’s a fear response. Deflecting is a fear response. It’s an ego response. So, it’s kind of like, well, what’s the fear? What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of people finding out? What are you afraid of you finding out what’s going on? Let’s get deep here. Don’t go shallow. Go deep. So that that would be my recommendation and then choose always to get past the deflection and get real, get authentic. What’s really going on? What’s underneath all that? What’s happening? So that’s my suggestion.

Why do I freeze or zone out sometimes, it’s like, I get an attack of nerves or something. Also, my concentration appears to be shot sometimes. Okay, fight flight, freeze or fun. It is a fear response. So, freezing is when a threat comes at us. So okay, let’s go through the four. So, the fight response is where a threat comes at us, and we’re ready to go. We’re like, Nope, not going to put up with this. We’re done. You know that kind of thing. Flight is where a threat comes at us. And we’re like, peace out. I’m out of here. Not dealing with this bye. And we leave. fight flight freeze is where we just deer in headlights were like a deer in the headlights were just like, oh, I don’t even know what to say. I don’t even know what to do. If I do anything. I’m going to get killed. Oh my god. Also, not a good response because you also get hit by a car. Hang on. That’s what deers do. So, the freeze response is response to fear. It’s like we don’t know how to respond or how to how to act. Okay, you get an attack of the nerves. That’s called a panic attack. So, let’s briefly go through a panic attack.

A panic attack is where a threat comes in, real or imagined. This is how powerful our brains are. Threats can be something we think about. Threats can be something that we see that reminds us of something from the past, so it could be past, something happening now. Present could be something that we’re daydreaming about or worrying about. So, the threat comes in and hits the amygdala. The amygdala is a little almond-shaped organ that sits about an inch inside of each ear. This is our fight, flight, freeze, or fawn center. Now the problem with the amygdala is it is stupid, but it cannot tell the difference between past, present future daydreaming about it and emotional threat of physical threat. It’s all the same. So, when the amygdala gets triggered, it goes, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. And it tells the hippocampus and hypothalamus. Oh my god, we need cortisol. Cortisol is our stress hormone. So, those two guys tell the brain release the cortisol. So, the cortisol goes into the system, and we start tensing up because we’re getting ready to fight, flight, runaway freeze, like a bunny rabbit. So, the predator doesn’t see us and walks on by and leaves us alone, or fawn give into the predator so that we don’t get killed. So then, we’re sitting here, we’re tense, taking puffy little breaths don’t go anywhere, racing thoughts, racing thoughts, pounding heart pounding heart. At this point, the brain then kicks in and goes, Hey, there’s a wonky co2 oxygen exchange. What’s going on? We need we need more energy we got to get out of here. This is dangerous. So, then the brain tells the adrenal gland that sits on top of the kidneys to release everything at once. So now we’re shaking like a leaf, racing thoughts pounding heart, oh, my god, puffy little breath. At this point, people do one of two things. They either go into the stereotypical panic attack, which is OMG, and then they keel over, or they turn into the Incredible Hulk. Now, what you’re describing through zoning out would be dissociation. That’s usually what kids do or adults do when they’ve had trauma very young. So dissociating is when our brains just go, Yeah, I can’t, I can’t even peace out. And we just, you know, my lights are on bodies there, engines running, and we are four feet in up in the air in the corner because we can’t cope with the threat that’s coming in. So, it would be working on the panic attack; basically, concentration can be shot in PTSD and C-PTSD.

Kris Godinez  51:57

So, we have a very hard time concentrating. If we’re constantly focusing in on the up Periscope, is there danger, is there dangerous, is there dangerous, is there danger? Is there danger? Where’s the danger? Where’s the danger? So, it’s working on that? What if, what if, what if, and it’s working on calming yourself? So how, what is your first clue that you’re starting to freeze or you’re starting to zone out? At that point, take a deep breath. You’re safe. You’re okay, everything’s fine. You’re not going to get killed. Everything is okay. And work with your trauma therapist. There’s this has probably been going on since you were little, would be my guess. So, work on calming and soothing yourself. Self-calm, self-soothe, recognizing when you’re going into a panic attack. As soon as you realize you’re starting to go into that anxious feeling or that, you know, that oh my gosh, nerves, you know, kind of thing, okay, that’s when you force your chest open. Breathe, and as you let it out, you self-soothe. I’m safe. I’m okay. Everything’s fine. No one’s going to hurt me. It’s all good. I’ve got this. And you do that a couple of times because it takes about 5 to 10 minutes for the adrenal adrenaline to bleed out of the system to flood out of the system. So that’s what you want to do. OK freeze. Okay. Got that concentration. So again, that’s going to come with safety. I would get with a good trauma therapist, honest to God, and I would start working on that. And there’s some good books out there. There’s a there’s a CBT book on anxiety, which would probably be a good one. Just type in CBT anxiety workbook, and it should pop up. It’ll probably be on Amazon.

Okay, next and probably last question. Does the golden child have the same problem with aging as the narcissistic parent? My siblings, one boy and a girl golden child, seems to be having the same problem with aging as parents did. Well, it depends now. Some golden child’s children they are exactly like the narcissist. They’re narcissistic the whole thing other golden children didn’t want to be the golden child don’t like being the golden child, and they aren’t like the narcissist, so it depends on again nature nurture. So, nature sets up nurture either pushes us over the cliff, or it holds us back. So not all golden children go on to be narcissists. Okay. Not all scapegoats, you know. Some scapegoats do go on to become narcissists. Again, nature-nurture it’s the eternal question chicken or egg, you know, which, which came first. So, um, but it’s not surprising, you know if there’s if there’s a lot of narcissistic tendencies if they’re exactly like the abuser, then Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, I think, holy cow. That’s it. Alright guys, that is it for today. So um, next week, we are going to be talking about the ultimate control. So, we’re going to be talking about when abusers kill themselves, kill family, burn the house down, wreck the car, drain the bank accounts, etc., etc., etc. So, we’re going to be talking about all these things that abusers do when they are dark triads. They are psychopathic, they are narcissistic, they’re Machiavellian. They can’t control the situation. This is why they’re dangerous. So, we’re going to be talking about the ultimate control. So, we’re going to be covering all of those topics. So anyway, thank you so much for tuning in. Please take good care of yourselves. Drink plenty of water and be good to yourself. All right, you guys. Have a great day, and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.