Why are dark triads so damn dangerous, vindictive, and violent? What is psychopathy? What makes them decide to kill themselves or others? In the first half of the show, Kris talks about what is a dark triad which is narcissism, psychopathy, and control, and what motivates them to the acts of stalking and or violence. In the second half of the show, Kris answers any questions that come up about the topic of dark triads or abuse.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, cool. Announcements. Mmm hmm. I made it home over the grapevine that was a little scary. We cut our trip short. So came back on Wednesday. And as we were driving over the grapevine it started snowing and it was foggy. And people were still doing 80 miles an hour. And I’m like, clearly none of you people have driven in the snow before. So that was….. glad I’m home. Glad I’m home. So, there is that the next one is going to be in Vancouver, BC that will be May 20. So, May 20. Vancouver, BC is the next meet and greets. So, you go to Krisgodinez.com and get your tickets there. So, and I will tell you where it is after you’ve bought your tickets. So there that is but it’s going to be in Vancouver, BC. So, there is that? And then yes, I am doing Portland, Oregon. Boise and Salt Lake City this summer. I’m thinking July might be August, not sure niece has still not gotten back to me. So, I need to figure. I mean, she has but she’s like, I don’t know what I’m doing and like that’s okay. So, we’ll figure it out. So, there’s that. Okay. I think is there any other announcements to think? No, I think that’s it. Okay. All right. So of course, my books are available on Amazon. So, you, You Can Lead a Horse to Water But You Can’t Make Him Cha Cha is about why some people get involved in relationships that are abusive and stay in them and others leave. The other one is what’s wrong with your dad, which is my story of my life of how I got to this point because of my crazy family. So, there is that, um, is that there’s another one Oh, so you want to be a therapist. So, if you’re interested or you know, someone who’s interested in being a therapist, I give them the lowdown on what it’s like to really be a therapist, because I don’t think people the movies don’t really do justice to what we do. So there that is and of course they do a lot of things that I’m just like, No, no, no, no good therapists would do that. Thank you.

All right, today heavy topic, we’re going to be talking about psychopathy. We’re going to be talking about dark triad. So, the ultimate control the ultimate control is when an abuser kills themselves, kills the family, kills the dog, kills the pets… kills, kills, kills. They’re killers, they’re awful. They’re horrible. So, like I said, every, every month for the last 20 years, there’s been two incidences of mass family killings but why do they? Why do they kill their family and why do they kill themselves? Or why do they not kill the family but kill themselves? So okay, lots of stuff we got to talk about here. psychopathy is not in the DSM five. Why? I have no idea I The powers that be honestly. I don’t agree with a lot of what the APA does. So, I don’t know why it’s not in the DSM five. It is a thing. There are psychopaths out there. Absa-freakin-lutely.

So, okay, so it’s what we have in the DSM five now is antisocial personality disorder. So let me read you what antisocial personality disorder is, okay. Okay, hang on just a second failure to conform to basic social norms in ways that violate the law, repeated violation of the physical or emotional rights of others. Well, that’s every abuser you’ve ever had to deal with. Lack of stability in job and home life may go through long periods of unemployment, for example, even in localities or situations where the jobs are readily available. A lot of narcissists do that because they’re dark triads, irritability and aggression may get into frequent fights or rages. Yes, lack of remorse after harming someone or their property, like they just don’t care. They just don’t care. Don’t care there is no empathy there. They cannot put themselves into somebody else’s shoes and go oh my god, what must that be like? They don’t do that. Consistent irresponsibility. Sounds like a lot of narcissists, recklessness, impulsivity, deceit fulness. Childhood diagnosis or symptoms consistent with conduct disorder should generally be present before the age of 15. So that is anti-social.

Now the hare psychopathy checklist, as you will see very similar. A lot of times we call them charming narcissists. So, um Are they narcissist or the psychopath? Well, here’s the thing. There’s the here 20 traits assessed by the PCL-R score by the pair psychology, you know, psychopathy thing, okay? glib and superficial charm, grandiose, extremely high estimation of self. Well, that sounds like a narcissist need for stimulation, they get bored in credibly easy, like they need that constant adrenaline hit that kind of thing. Cunning and manipulative. So, when I was working in the homeless shelter, and I know I’ve told this story before I was dealing with this psychopath, essentially, there was a sex offender.

Kris Godinez  06:30

He… my coworker said, you could see the flames of hell burning in his eyes, and you could he was just absolutely 110% I would not turn my back on him. And I would not be in the room alone with him. He was always looking like a shark. It was like he was constantly, you know, reading, who he could take advantage of like, just who’s vulnerable? Who can I get? Who can I you know, and you could just see it, you know, and it was one of those the psychopathic stare. I don’t know if you guys have ever seen that it is chilling. It’s like they’re looking at you. But they’re looking right through you. And they’re trying to assess where they can get you physically, mentally, emotionally or otherwise. So yeah, they are terrifying. I do not like being around them. That’s one of the reasons why I’m glad I’m no longer working at the homeless shelter. I did love it, though. Oh, my God, it was dangerous. And it was fun. And it was great helping the ones who wanted to be helped. Oh, my God, I mean it. For every psychopath, there was at least 10 others that really did want to get help. So that was, that was nice.

Okay, lack of remorse, shallow effect, superficial emotional responsiveness. So, in other words, they will describe Oh, I’m sad. But there’s no nothing that tells you that they’re sad. Oh, I’m, you know, I feel remorse, but there’s nothing that tells you that they feel remorse. Generally, when people feel remorse, they feel terrible. Oh my God, I am so sorry. I hurt you. I own it that psychopaths, narcissists, they’re never going to own their ship ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever on this or any other planet, they’re never going to own it ever. So, they’re superficial. It’s like they say the emotions, but they don’t feel them. And a great example of that is I was watching Oh, signs of a psychopath on ID channel. I know, I watched for relaxation. But I find it fascinating because this is what I deal with. So, um, signs of a psychopath. This kid had murdered as a teenager was coming up for parole, and in his parole hearing, he was sobbing. But he never needed a Kleenex. And there was nothing coming down his face. And the prosecutor got it. It’s I was like, Oh, thank you, Jesus, that you found that that you realize he was playing you. And so, Oh, oh, I feel really….. You know, and he was doing all that sounding like he was sobbing never needed a Kleenex, no snot coming out of his nose, no tears dripping down his eyes. But he was doing all of that, you know, that kind of thing. And there was nothing going on. And the prosecutor totally called it out. And I was like, Thank you for studying psychology. And I’ve seen them do that. When I used to do couples counseling, I would see them do that in the session to get the sympathy of the target of abuse. And I would have to point out, you don’t need a Kleenex, you’re not really crying, and that’s when they would storm out of the room.

So anyway, there is that okay, continuing with the checklist. I’m callousness, lack of empathy. They’re callous. There’s no empathy. They can’t. You know, John, and I will read the news in the morning. Like this morning, there was an immigrant boat that capsized off the coast of Italy. And 40 people died and both of us were like, Oh my God, you No, that’s terrible and 80 people survived. So, thank God they survived. But it’s, it’s like, if you’re not moved by that there’s something wrong with you, because that’s the loss of a human being, children usually. So, you know, empathy is that ability to go, oh my god, what would that be like to be in that little ship, you know, crossing these this ocean in the middle of winter or trying to get somewhere safe only to be capsized. And now your entire family is decimated. It just boggles the mind.

Okay, so continuing on parasitic lifestyle, OMG. So how many of us have been involved with a narcissist, dark triad, that refuse to work, that refuse to get a job that refuse to, you know, contribute that we refuse to do the childcare? I’m not babysitting my kids, you’re not babysitting a jerk. You’re those are your children. You’re watching them? You know what I’m saying? So, it’s like, they don’t want to contribute to the house. They don’t want to work. They don’t want to do housework. They don’t want to help bring in money. They don’t want to….. nothing. Me, me, me III more my genitals. That’s them. So, they’re parasitic. They live off of other people, their con artists. A lot of times, they’re con artists. So, they’ll, you know, oh, yeah, this next big thing? Oh, yeah. And pyramid scam. You know, they’ll get involved in pyramid scams, because they want something easy. They want something for nothing, is basically what they do. So, they do a lot of pyramid scams, they do a lot of cons, that kind of thing.

Poor behavioral controls. So, in other words, they cannot control their behaviors. Yes, and no, I’ll agree with that, to a certain extent, a lot of psychopaths read the room. Like I said that shark who’s vulnerable, what do they want? How can I make myself into what they want, so I can get them? That kind of thing. But when a when a psychopath or a narcissist has been cornered and exposed, they’ll explode. They’ll have rages, they’ll scream and shout and flip the script and all this stuff. So, You betcha.

Okay, continuing on. sexual promiscuity. So, affair, after affair, after affair, after affair, trying to get their partner to do sexual acts that they would not be comfortable with trying to film them, trying to get them engaging in a menage a trois or orgies or things like that. Because then what they do is they turn around and go see You’re just as bad as I am. So now, again, if everybody’s on the same page, and everybody is Okay, is everybody on the same page, okay, with you know, multiple sex partners. That’s great. Generally, though, psychopaths and narcissists, they are sadistic, they’re sadistic. And so, they enjoy making somebody do something that they don’t aren’t comfortable doing. So that’s kind of the difference, their sexual promiscuity in that they’ll have affairs multiple affairs all the time. They also do kind of like serial affairs, they’ll stick with one person for a while until they’ve used them up, and then they’ll switch to somebody else.

Early behavior problems. So, this is where the conduct disorder comes in. So early behavior problems would be, you know, lighting fires, arson, stealing, kleptomania, you know, not adhering to societal rules, they don’t adhere to societal rules. Lack of realistic long-term goals. Oh, my God. So, this is both with narcissism and psychopaths. They feel that they should be given everything on a silver platter. So, they don’t have realistic long-term goals. They’re like, well, you know, I’m going to run, the CEO of this company and done it out of that yet. They haven’t done anything to get to be a CEO. Does that make sense? So, they’ve got this like magic thinking fantasy kind of, I deserve, I deserve this. I need to be a manager. I need to be an owner. I need to be this but they’re not doing anything to get there. And they refuse to go through the normal steps starting at the bottom of the ladder and working their way up. Nope, they want to jump straight to the top and it doesn’t work that way. So, they’ve got some really unrealistic long-term goals. They don’t think normally which is not surprising. Okay? Um, lack of real

Okay, impulsivity. So, psychopaths sometimes are very cunning and very methodical. But if they’ve got other things going on, which a lot of them do, because remember when you start because this is on a spectrum. So, as you start sliding further and further down the line, all of the personality disorders start overlapping impulsivity plays into that.

Kris Godinez  15:03

So, it’s kind of that there was an old Buffy episode, where she was hanging around with, oh, the girls named, why can’t I think of her name? Anyway, the bad influence. And she was, you know, like, Oh, I see I want I take so she like, you know, smash the jewelry case and grab the stuff and ran. So that’s kind of what psychopaths do is like, if they want something, they’ll just take it without thinking of, you know, consequences because they don’t think the rules apply to them. So, they’re very impulsive,

Incredibly irresponsible irresponsibility. They don’t pay debts; they don’t honor bills. They don’t, you know, take responsibility for what they say or do. They’re incredibly, irresponsible, failure to accept responsibility for their own actions. Yes. Many short-term marital relationships. So, they’ll get involved in a relationship and then divorce and they get involved in a relationship and married, divorced, married and divorced, married, divorced, married, divorced, it’s the same thing with the affairs, juvenile delinquency, oftentimes, revocation of their conditional release from a jail or prison and criminal versatality. So, in other words, they can switch from, you know, robbery to murder, or, you know, con artist to, you know, white collar. I mean, it’s they’re incredibly versatile in their criminality. Yay. So, all right, so there is that I hope that kind of explains. They’re very similar. Antisocial and psychopathy are very similar. But it’s like psychopathy, antisocial, borderline narcissist. All of these personality disorders are on a scale, you know. And as they slide further and further down the scale, they all start overlapping.

So, the question I got is, why in the world, would an abuser kill themselves? Well, plenty of reasons. So, it’s the ultimate control. And especially if they’re killing themselves and taking out personal property. Okay. So, let’s say for example, that there’s a divorce going down. And so, the wife and the kids get the house and the car and whatever other property, an abuser will burn the house down wreck the car kill themselves as the ultimate, it’s the ultimate control. It’s the ultimate screw you I call it a hit and run screw you is what it is. So that’s the only time they’ll do it is if they’re not assured of winning. So, the more psychopathic they are, the crazier they are, essentially, the more likely they are to harm themselves and harm somebody else. So, in other words, let’s work this through here. narcissists. Yes. If it was just narcissism, no, I don’t think they would kill themselves because they’ve got this delusion, that they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and they’re God and so why would they kill themselves, right? But if you throw in psychopathy on top of that, now you’ve got this really, truly delusional way of thinking, this impulsivity, like really impulsive, like they don’t think things through, it’s kind of like, you know, healthy, normal people can kind of go, Oh, if I kill myself game over for this lifetime, you know, that they don’t.

To them. It’s kind of like, all show you all fix your wagon. And that’s what they do. They’re very vindictive, they’re incredibly, it’s like you’re dealing with a two-year-old on a bad day. Seriously. So, it’s, it’s impulsive, and it’s vindictive. And so, they’re doing it to hurt, to harm, to get the ultimate control, and it’s in their sick heads. It’s like, ha, ha, ha, you’re going to feel guilty because they know you feel, and they don’t. And, uh, ha ha, I destroyed all the property that you were going to get in the divorce. They’re, they’re evil, guys. I’m sorry. And if you throw that on top of with a family split, like let’s say there were little kids involved, right? They’re not thinking about the kids. They don’t care about even their own children. This is how, what’s the word I’m looking for? This is how debase they are. This is how vile they are. This is how selfish they are. They don’t care what it’s going to do to the kids.

So, when a parent commits suicide, it affects the kids it does. When a parent kills themselves in the middle of a divorce, it is definitely going to affect the kids. You’re going to definitely need to get those kids into trauma therapy. Absolutely. 110% Not only to deal with the divorce itself, but to deal with the fact that the parent that was abusive, was abusive, and that they were mentally unhinged, and chose to punish you and the kids by burning down the house, destroying the car blowing through the marital assets, etc., etc., etc. So basically, they’re vile. They don’t care, we literally our children, with them have no more meaning to them than this pen. It is something to be used as far as they are concerned. And in a scenario like that the goal of the psychopath is to turn those kids against you see, Mommy made me kill myself see, mommy’s a bad person. So, I had to kill myself. So, they’re from the grave, trying to do parental alienation. If I could be throwing middle fingers, right now, I would I hope the son of a bitch is roasting in hell, I really do. Because that is vile, because those kids are going to have to live with this. And those kids are going to have to go through trauma therapy, in order to help them understand it had nothing to do with them had nothing to do with the mom had everything to do with the abuser. Period. Absolutely. Period. So, it and if you’ll notice, and I’ve talked about this before, abusers a lot of times we’ll use the threat of suicide to control the soon to be ex because they’re counting on the ex coming back and being afraid of that person actually killing themselves. And you know, what, if they actually kill themselves, that’s on them. That is their choice, it is 110% It is never the target of abuse is fault for leaving. It never is. But they will use that because they know we feel. They know we have empathy. They know we go, Oh my God, no, I don’t want that person to do that. Of course, we don’t want that person. We don’t want anybody to do that. Even if they were our abuser. We because we actually have a soul. You know, it’s like we actually feel we actually have empathy. We actually are like; I want everyone to win. And I just want everybody to be conscious. Wouldn’t that be nice? What a wonderful world that would be.

Anyway, so that is why they do that they’ve got an overdeveloped sense of what’s the way I’m thinking of overdeveloped sense of revenge, overdeveloped sense of control. And they literally in their crazy magic thinking are going, I’m going to control from the grave. This is how I’m going to get my way. This is how I’m going to win. Because remember, it’s it has to be a win for them. It can never be equality ever. They have to be one up, always. So, in their crazy mind, they win. Even though they’re dead, and the house is gone, and the car is gone. And the money’s gone. And it’s insane. It’s insane, short answer. They’re insane, long answer. They’ve got multiple personality disorders going on. So, it’s the impulsivity that does that. And the worst ones are the ones who kill whole family and then kill themselves. Because again, control because they’re trying to control. It’s like, See, I am God, I can take away your life on God. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is. So yeah, that’s why they do it. It’s control. It is the ultimate control in they’re crazy minds. They win. So yeah, it’s things that make me go Oh, my God. So yeah. So, this is why they do things.

So, the next article I pulled up so that other one was from the Robert Hare you just look up the Robert Hare psychopathy evaluation. Um, do psychopaths really understand that they’re hurting people? I don’t think they care. So, there was primary psychopathy, and there’s secondary psychopathy. So, I wanted to talk about this. So, hang on just a second.

Kris Godinez  24:23

So primary psychopathy. Remember how we always talk about nature nurture. Okay, primary psychopathy is when there is definitely something going on in the brain. It is genetic, it is something’s wrong. This person cannot process emotions or empathy or whatever. So that’s primary psychopathy. Secondary psychopathy is environmental. So, for example, that great example would be Dexter right. You remember the show, Dexter? So, he witnessed violence and this, that and the other thing is, so then he became a serial killer, but he was a serial killer that only To kill bad guys which Okay, whatever. Um, so it’s environmental. So primary is genetic, secondary is environmental. Now here’s the thing though. Here’s what I see abusers do. Oh, I had a bad childhood who feel sorry for me. Okay, I think a lot of us had bad childhoods, especially those of us raised by a narcissist or, you know, users. We didn’t become, you know, violent or hurting people or lying or cheating or stealing or violating societal rules or any of that. So, when they give the excuse, oh, I had a bad childhood. Ah, guess what, it’s a choice. You have a choice. Either you’re going to help other people and be a real human being or you’re going to be a selfish person and go hurt people. Not okay, not okay. So don’t fall for it when they do the hole. Oh, I had a bad childhood. That’s why I screamed at you. That’s why I hit you. That’s why I  don’t buy it. Don’t buy it. It’s not it may explain their behavior but it sure as frick does not excuse it. Okay, does not excuse it at all period. So, there is that they do know that they are hurting you, but they oftentimes are sadistic. So, there is a role of childhood abuse and neglect in people that grow up to become abusers. So yeah, you can either grow up to become an abuser yourself or you become a champion, or you start using drugs and alcohol to try to numb it. So that’s why it’s so important to get kids into therapy when there has been abuse

Okay, so this article also Psychology Today, Nine Clues That You May be Dealing with a Psychopath. Okay. Currently, researchers have returned to using the term psychopath, which they should, some of them use that term to refer to the more serious disorder linked to genetic traits. So that’s primary secondary. Okay, okay, number one, uncaring the PCL, which I just read you it lists callousness and lack of empathy, cold heartedness. dis-social personality. They’re dis-social, they’re antisocial. callous unconcerned for the feelings of others. Okay, shallow emotions. I think we’ve talked about that. They don’t experience guilt, shame, embarrassment, etc. They have a poverty in affective reactions. They lack remorse or shame. irresponsibility. We talked about that, insincere speech. So, they’re glib, charming, charming Narcissus is what we used to call them overconfident narrowing of attention. So, they can’t handle things. Everything going on. Okay, that yeah, they’re kind of Yeah. Yeah, they can’t handle multiple things going on. It’s like they’re very, they’re like a shark. They’re very centered. And, you know, this is what I need to do. And this is what I need to get done. Very selfish inability to plan for the future. Violence. Those are all things to watch out for.

And now I wanted to talk about because we’re running out of time, I wanted to talk about the link between malignant hysteria and female psychopathy. Okay, there are females that are psychopaths, Absa- freakin-lutely. They present a little differently though, than male psychopaths. Malignant hysteria is the heart of the female psychopath. Okay, hold on, I wanted to get to. Okay, newly proposed psychopathy descriptors specific to women. They wanted to revise the P CLR. Because it’s mostly geared towards men. So, with the female psychopath, a lot of the same stuff is there. But there is a lot of histrionic there’s a lot of so the superficiality pathological self-focus, manipulative behavior or absence of remorse, pseudo emotionality, slash unstable affect. So, they’re all over the place. There, you know, fake emotions, raging the whole thing, empathic deficits, opportunistic, interpersonal relationships. They use people like nobody’s business, and they’ll fake the emotions to do it. Indiscriminate sexual behavior. And yeah, so there are female psychopaths as well.

Now this last article I wanted to read is called my abuser killed himself from hopeless to healing. So, this woman was in a vicious custody battle. The ex was abusive, he abused the kids, he had ample amount of monetary means to litigate this person to the point of financial abuse. And when it looked like he wasn’t going to win, so here’s the reason why he killed himself. This is what I wanted to read. Okay, our most recent custody evaluation exposed his lies, verbal assaults, and emotional abuse of my son Jake. The custody evaluator recommended that I receive more parenting time and that Alex seek help from a parenting coach. She also disagreed with Alex’s motion to change Jake school. Once the report came out, Alex began to distance himself from our son and told me that he would only see Jake, if Jake, who was 14 at the time arranged the visitation.

Three months later, Alex’s brother called me Alex had killed himself with a gunshot to his head. My reaction caught me off guard, I was crying. It was a pit in the stomach. So basically, you know, she had to go through what the heck happened and what her counselor told her was, this guy suffered narcissistic mortification. In other words, he lost, he lost, and he wasn’t going to win. More than likely, his attorney told him he wasn’t going to win. And so, once he realized he wasn’t going to get what he want, he put it on to the son who’s only 14 Again, trying parental alienation. And then when he realized that wasn’t going to work, he killed himself. So again, it’s all about power and control. This one is called my abuser killed himself from hopeless to healing by mild High mamas. And it was in motherhood. So, you can look that up.

So, there is that so basically, the reason why they do what they do, why they kill, or they kill themselves, why they kill other people who think you why they kill the family, and then kill themselves. It’s all about control. It is all about the ultimate control. If you see these in the news all the time. And it’s horrifying for the family that’s left behind. It’s horrifying for the children. It’s horrifying for the ex. You know, it makes no sense because you and I would put the kids first we would be like, nope, these are my kids. No matter how angry I am. No matter how hopeless I am, I cannot kill myself because these little guys need me. That’s what a healthy normal person would do. Right? They’re not healthy, they’re not normal. Let me just be clear, they’re cuckoo for freaking Cocoa Puffs, okay, there’s no other way to put it. And in their mind, they would rather be dead and leave you holding the emotional bag with the kid’s parental alienation from the grave. And to leave you destitute, burn the house down, destroy the car, plow through all of the finances, whatever and leave you destitute. It’s the ultimate control. So, they have this realization, they’re not going to win. Oh, I know. I’ll do the ultimate win screw up screw you know, hit and run Screw you. So that is what is going on.

Kris Godinez  33:51

So, if you are in a situation like that, if you have a situation where the abuser has killed themselves, for the love of God and all that’s holy,  get yourself, get your kids into a damn good trauma therapist that understands personality disorders, and how these people and I use the term loosely behave and how they control and how they manipulate and how they use death. Murder, suicide as the ultimate control in order to hurt the target of abuse and the kids because they don’t care because remember, the kids to them be nothing. They’re an object to be used and once they can’t use them, they have no use to them. Seriously once any of us it. Psychopaths do not look…..psychopaths or narcissists do not look at other human beings as other human beings who have a rich full life of emotion themselves. They don’t they look at other human beings as objects to be used, what can I get out of you? How can I use you? How can I get what I want? That’s how they function. Okay? The biggest mistake we make is that we assume that they feel number one they don’t, or that they think that we did like we do, and they don’t, because there something is wrong up here. Okay, if they’re psychopathic, and it’s primary, something’s wrong up here. And if there’s other personality disorders going on And they’re not thinking clearly there’s that impulsivity, there’s that vindictiveness. There’s that callousness, there’s that all of that.

So, stop assuming that your ex if they’re abusive, is thinking normally or behaves like a normal human being or has feelings or empathy. They don’t they fake it, when they meet us and they do the love bombing, that’s a mask, the abuse is the real them. The abuse is the real them, let me just say that, again, the abuse is the real them, that’s who they are. This was not real. So, you’ve got to understand that when they do a heinous act like that, that’s who they really are. And it’s all about control. And you’re grieving the loss of the illusion, not the loss of the psychopath who killed themselves and burned down the house and crashed the car and went through all the money. who that is, is that’s who they really are. The this was not who they really are. But that’s what you fell in love with. So, it’s, its complicated grief, it is complicated grief. And you’re going to have to help your kids through this because the kids are going to be like What the… You know, and so a trauma therapist is going to be absolutely essential. You’ve got to get a trauma therapist to help the kids understand. It was not them. It was nothing they said it was nothing they did, it wasn’t you know, especially when the kids are like, I don’t want to go over to mom or dad’s house, and then Mom or Dad kills themselves, the kids going to feel like it was their fault. It is not their fault. It is not their fault. And How dare that person do something to make a child think it is? You know what I’m saying? So, there is that, okay, sorry, I just, it makes me angry. It makes me angry because it’s like, when, and this is the last thing I’m going to say in that I swear to God, I’m going to get to the questions Hang on.

When you are dealing with an abuser, and you choose to leave them. I am not just whistling to hear myself whistle when I tell you if they are stalking you, if they are bombarding you with phone calls, if they are texting you nonstop. If they’re emailing you nonstop, you’ve got to get an order of protection. They are crazy. They are dangerous. One of the articles and I can’t remember which one because I took them all down. Um, one of the articles said, if it’s a dark triad narcissism with psychopathy, they are dangerous. And it said it right there. And I was like, yeah, yeah, they are. Because they think that they’re right, they have to win. And they’re impulsive. And that makes them dangerous. So, if they’re stalking you, if they’re threatening you, if they’re doing anything that leads you to believe they’re going to harm you, you get a restraining order, and you call on it every single time they violate it every single time. Yes, it is just a piece of paper. However, this is a paper trail that you’re laying, so that if they do try to attack you, or they you know, do some sort of legal maneuver, you have the paperwork that shows this person is unstable. This person has made threats, this person, do you see where I’m going with that? Because ultimately, it is about protecting the kids and protecting you. So, they’re dangerous. They’re dangerous. They’re 110% dangerous. The dark triads are dangerous. They’re the stalkers. They’re the ones that kill. They are because they’re crazy. So, um, so yeah, I really hope that answers the question as to why would somebody kill themselves and burn the house down and destroy the car and blow through the money? When they’ve got kids? It’s because they don’t care. They don’t care. They truly do not care. They they’re all about the revenge. That’s all they want. So, anyway, there’s that.

Okay. Let me get to the questions. Okay, hold on. Somebody’s asking. Can you do another show on control from a disordered person? With examples? Some, some things mine did I’m starting to think we’re control even when we broke up? Um, yeah, I can talk about some of the red flags. You know, I think that’s probably a good one. So, it’s probably not going to be until where are we now? We’re in March. No, we’re in February. I think I already have marches shows laid out. I will lay out April shows. So that’ll probably be in April. So, we’ll plan on doing that. And Colin, if you could remind me of that. That’d be great. So don’t forget. Um, okay. So, control, control, control, control, red flags. Okay. All right. Okay, let’s go into the questions. Let’s do that. Hang on. Okay.

My mom is a dark triad. I am disabled and she took control of my money. So, I have to take her to court. I’m afraid she will lie as usual and put me in a conservatorship if I tried to, I try, I would strongly suggest getting an advocate to help you get all your documentation together, she can lie all she wants. But if you’ve got all your documentation going together, and you’ve got an advocate that’s advocating for you, it makes it a lot harder for her to do manipulation of your finances and your body and everything else. So, find a social worker. So, I don’t know what country you’re in. I’m assuming it’s the US. I could be wrong. But whatever country you’re in, find a social worker or find a legal advocate that will take on your case that will advocate for you. That would be my suggestion for that. All right.

What are your thoughts on revealing the narc to himself as some radical self-healing? Oh, don’t do it. Oh, dear God, where did you hear that? It’s obviously somebody who’s not a psychologist. Um, so you cannot fix them. Because you did not break them. Nobody can. I can’t fix them. I’m a damn good therapist. Nobody can fix them. They are un fixable. They’re on salvageable. So, I have heard this before from people. Well, I’m going to tell them don’t. All that’s going to do is they’re going to then start diving through the psychology and they’re going to come up with a bunch of psychobabble and they’re going to flip the script and call you the narcissist don’t freaking do it. They are un helpable seriously. So, if you tell a narcissist that they are a narcissist, they will come on freaking hinged. Absolutely. And they will punish you. And they will start studying psychology so that they know more than you do. And they’ll start using psychobabble and they will abuse you with that. So, there is that don’t do it. Don’t do it. It’s not going to heal them there. I constantly have to tell my clients, especially the new ones coming in that haven’t watched my stuff or read my books. You know, it’s like you can’t tell them that they’re disordered. All they’ll do is punish you more. And what do they do? That codependent part of them that little kid part of them wants them fixed. So, they tell them and then the next time they come in, they tell me how they’re being punished. Or they tell me how they’re now being told that they’re the narcissist or whatever, so don’t do it. Please, please, please don’t do it. Okay, hold on.

Do narc parents want their adult child to pay for them in old age? Yes. Late narc mother never worked and then dad died, and she started dropping hints on how poor she was and how we should pay for her. Yes 110% They do that. They absolutely do that. Yeah. So, a collapsed older narcissist, The nursing homes are filled with them. So, they expect the kids even though they’ve used them to take care of them. They absolutely do. And that’s no You’re under no obligation. You are under no obligation. Yeah, and yes, they do expect the kids to take care of and expect everybody to take care of they have a sense of entitlement the size of Nova Scotia I mean it’s huge. They’ve got just a huge sense of entitlement I mean it’s insane so or the size of Canada would actually be more you know, whole of Canada. You know, they’re just they have a sense of entitlement. They expect everybody to take care of them Absa-freakin-lutely. And the older they get the nastier they get.

Okay, do disordered people pop up in public to stay in your view to keep them on your mind and to keep you lined up with them when they want you to come back? Absolutely.

Kris Godinez  43:52

Absolutely. So, here’s the thing I need to warn you of. And I forgot to say this in the main part of the discussion, but I think this is important. Psychopaths and narcissists dark triads are not just exes, they can be family members, they can be mom, dad, sibling, etc. They are just as dangerous so even though it’s not a romantic partner, it’s a family member. Stay no contact if they are psychopathic; stay no contact. And they’re crazy. So, what they will do and remember we just got through Hoover’s season; they’ll wait 1015 20, 30 years and suddenly reach out again. And if the more psychopathic they are, and this kind of goes back to the question of the old elder parent, the more demanding they are, you know, you better talk to me you better contact me you but if you don’t want to be written out of the Will you better get a hold of me. So, if you’ve gone no contact with a family member, hang on. If you’ve got no contact with a family member stay no contact. If they reach out and Hoover you, and they’re doing this whole threatening thing, I’m going to cut you out of the will. I’m going to I’m going to go get you my pretty they sound like the Wicked Witch of the West. Have you ever noticed that very vindictive, very often, you know, Oh, get you. You know that cuz they’re awful. And they think that they can use the carrot of an inheritance to get people to come back. So, in this case, the kid had not spoken to this person in 10, 15, 20 years, the parents suddenly comes back and starts demanding, like threatening, and at the end, it was like, Well, if you want to be written out of the Will I need to if you don’t want to be renowned, will I need a response by 7pm? Tonight? No response. And I was like, good, because no response is a response, you know? And, yeah, they’re crazy. And then they’ll switch tactics. And I warned them of this. I said, Okay, the next thing when that doesn’t work, when the when the hammer doesn’t work, then they’re going to use the velvet glove. And I said, be prepared. It’s going to be a guilt trip. And what’s and the next thing that came out, was this whole What would Jesus do? And I’m like, Jesus would probably get a whip and, get you the hell out of the temple, you know, I mean, it’s just like, hello, communal narcissist. You know, I mean, it’s like, you can’t threaten somebody and then do the 2.0 Jesus thing and expect people to come be with you. It’s either they want to be with you, or they don’t. And clearly, they don’t. So yeah, parents can be psychopaths. 110%. And what’s especially crazy about this is that the last thing said was Don’t contact me, even if I’m on my deathbed. So, you know, the person didn’t contact I mean, even if they was going to be on their deathbed. But then 10,15 20 years later, parent comes back and starts demanding. Crazy. So, the only thing to do is to stay no contact, don’t respond, don’t engage. Don’t explain. Don’t get into a pissing match with a skunk. Let me just say that, again. Never get into a pissing match with a skunk. That goes for exes. That goes for family. Because these people what they’re doing is they’re baiting you. They’re, they’re trying to fish, they’re trying to bait you. And they want you to take the bait, and they want you to argue with them. Because that is their narcissistic supply that is their cocain. Yeah, that’s their cocaine, you know, is that’s how they get off on things. So don’t respond, give them nothing. Let them sit and stew. Because it’s not your problem. Now, I will say this, I do think they’re dangerous. I do, especially if they have access to guns, and especially if they’re vindictive, and especially if they think they’re right. You know, and so my suggestion would be if there are any threats of any kind from a parent, from a sibling, from an ex from whatever you file a restraining order if there haven’t been any threats, and it’s just this vague kind of, Oh, I’m going to cut you off, blah, blah, blah, Okay, leave it alone, let it drop, you know, no response is a response. I would, however, be very aware of your surroundings, I would carry pepper spray, I would alert neighbors, you know, and always be conscientious of who’s around. Because these people, like I said, they don’t think normally that’s not a normal way that a parent acts I If for some ungodly reason I’d ever been separated from my great nieces and nephews. And they weren’t talking to me. First of all, I would honor that, you know, not talking, except that in this case, the abuser is the one that said Don’t talk. So. You know, but if I was going to reach out and try to reestablish a relationship, I would be like, What did I do? Let’s get with a therapist. Let’s build this relationship again. You know, oh, my God, if I said or did anything, I want to make amends. I mean, see where I’m going with that. But the way a psychopath comes at it is, you know, oh, we’re both wrong. We both did things wrong.

You were the one that said you wanted to no contact so. I mean, it’s crazy. Or they’ll accuse the kid of doing things that they didn’t do, or they’ll smear the kid to other family members, which is common, you know. So, um, so yeah, so there that is that’s, they’re insane. They truly, truly, truly are insane. And they’re dangerous. I think they’re dangerous. There, you have a dark triad. They’re dangerous because you’ve got that impulsivity going on and you’ve got that incredibly strong sense of revenge. They have to be vengeful, so yeah, they’re, they’re dangerous. Absolutely. Alright, let me see if there’s any other questions that I missed.

And do they pop up? in public to stay in your view, yes, they do. They stalk that’s what they do. So, they’ll just kind of accidentally on purpose be at the gym or accidentally on purpose be at the grocery store you shop out or accidentally on purpose be on the bike trail that you go on or whatever. Yeah, they want. They want to be the first thing you think about in the morning and the last thing you think about at night, and yes, they do that to keep you hooked to keep you on edge. A lot of times a lot of times what psychopath’s dark triads, Narcissus control freaks do is they want you to be afraid. And they want you to be fearful of what they’re going to do. Which is why I’m saying yes, I want you to be aware. Yes, I want you to be awake. Yes, I want you to be aware of your surroundings, but continue on just carry pepper spray and let people know. You know. So um, yeah, they’re crazy.

They’re, you know, I had a stalker a few years ago, and I had to file a restraining order. And this person was nuts. This person was insane, and wanted to make sure that I knew that she was watching me. And I’m like, Yeah, well, every time you do that person, I am reporting it to the police, and I’m keeping a file. So, they’re crazy. And of course, when the person realized that there were going to be legal repercussions, they stopped so and they’re also cowards, they tend to be cowards. However, if you’re dealing with somebody who truly is psychopathic, narcissistic, dark triad control freak, if they’re a loose cannon, they’re unpredictable. And that’s what makes them dangerous. So, you don’t know what they’re going to do. And you do want to be careful, but you also don’t want to live your life in fear. So, you do what you can to protect yourself you do what you can to protect your family, but you do not allow yourself to live in fear.

All right, my loves I think that is it for today. And I think there’s any other questions. All right bunnies. So, I don’t know what to talk about next week. I’ll say it on Wednesday because my brain poof gone. So, take good care of yourselves and we are getting our new puppy Lucky loo this afternoon. So, I’m very excited. You guys all be good to yourselves. Yeah, that’s it. All right. My love’s I will talk to you. I hope this was helpful. If you guys have questions or you want to see future shows control, I remembered I will write it down. Just either put it in the chats, or you can go over to we need to talk with Kris Godinez on Facebook, and you know, put it in the IM over there. Let me know what you want me to talk about. That kind of thing. I’m always open to topics because the more people who get help the more people who are educated on this, the more people who are aware of this, the less they’re going to be able to abuse so yay, team. Alright guys, you guys be good. And I will talk to you on Wednesday with any questions that I missed. And I’ll talk to you on Sunday. All right. Talk to you guys later. Bye.

Kris Godinez  53:07

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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