We’ve all been there, and done that, dealing with a disordered corporation that has the office bully, cliques, screamers, and schemers. No one ever teaches us what to look out for when we go to interview for a job or why it is important to read not just employee reviews like glassdoor.com but customer reviews of any place you are interviewing for a job. How do you deal with a backstabbing, idea-stealing coworker? Or, even recognize that the coworker is even doing that?

More and more people are saying that HR does nothing but protect the corporation. That the corporations are only as healthy as the people at the top as doo-doo runs downhill. What are some things you can do to protect yourself should you have the misfortune of having a coworker or worse, boss who is a bully? These and many more questions will be answered in this week’s episode Office Shenanigans.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, um, let’s see. Topic. So current events, so current events would be the Alex Murdaugh trial. So, I don’t know if you guys watched it or not. But do you remember how I was talking about crime ID and how prosecutors if they’re smart, they’re and educated in psychology, they watch the perpetrator to see what kind of emotions may or may not be going on. Hi, everybody, I see you in the chat. Thank you. So, Alex Murdoch, when he insisted, uh, first of all, back it up, back it up, back it up. He’s a lawyer. Okay. He insisted on testifying on his own behalf. Huge mistake. If I was his attorney, I would have said hell no, but I wasn’t. And I’m not I don’t play one on TV. But, during his testimony, he was emotionless there was no tears, no distress, no remorse, no upset, no emotion whatsoever. It took the jury 45 minutes to come back and be like, Oh, hell yeah, he did this. So, it’s interesting to me the hubris that these narcissistic types, not just him, but other people that that do heinous acts and then think that they can get away with it because they think they’re smarter than everybody else. But on the stand, no motion, no tears, no remorse, no, missing them, no, nothing, nothing. And he’s got a series of other crimes behind him.

So, you remember last week when we were talking about dark triads when we were talking about sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists Machiavellian, they switch between crimes. So, they’re, they’re equally adept at doing white collar crimes as they are at doing robberies or murder or whatever. And so, it was really interesting to me to watch this trial and see that the jury didn’t buy his BS and that they actually convicted him. So again, it’s they are incapable of expressing normal human emotions. When you lose somebody, you love you are wreck, you’re a wreck. I mean, you are a wreck, capital W wreck. Okay. But if you’re a dark triad, it’s really hard to get that unless you’re a really good actor. And even at that, like I said, there was that one where the kid just, you know, boohoo, who’d on the stand, no tears, no need for a Kleenex, none of that. So, I really wish that our, our judicial system would be trained in psychology, they need to, they need to be trained in psychology, they absolutely must be trained in psychology, for so many reasons. One, you’ve got a bunch of dark triads out there committing heinous crimes, number two, the family court system, a bunch of dark triads out there, committing heinous crimes and doing parental alienation and everything else. So yeah, it’s it was a really interesting trial to watch. So anyway, there is that. So just another example of you get a dark triad on the stand or you get somebody who is disordered on the stand. And they think they’re smarter than everybody else, but they can’t genuinely give the emotion that is appropriate to the situation. Some of them can, but not a lot of them. So anyway, that’s the current events. All right.

So, let’s dive into today’s topic, which is office shenanigans. And next week, I’m going to be talking about how to deal with siblings because I think that is coming up for a lot of us so Alright, so office shenanigans. So, here’s the thing every single article I looked at whether it was Psychology Today or Yale or any of them that I pulled up, every single descriptor was a dark triad. Isn’t that interesting? So, when you are interviewing, let’s start at the very, very beginning, when you are interviewing for a job, how can you prevent yourself from getting into a situation that’s toxic?

So here are the 15 warning signs of a bad company to work for lack of team bonding and communication. So poor leadership skills, unclear objective, limited feedback, disengaged employees, like they’re there, they don’t care, and they’re quiet, quitting all of that. Damaged reputation. So, it used to be that you could go to glassdoor.com and look it up and get the reviews from the actual employees understanding now that that may not be such a great or accurate place to go. But you could go look and look, go and look at it, to see what people are saying about them. The best way to look at a company’s reputation, read the reviews for the company, how many people are happy with them, buying their products, or dealing with them? How many people are unhappy with them? So, if you’re coming across a lot of negative reviews, that’s a huge red flag right there because that says there’s something wrong with the company. Okay. Um, all right. damaged reputation. Okay. unmotivated employees. So external reflects the internal so happy employees make for satisfied customers, which is why I’m saying look at the customer reviews, people engaged at work, invest more time and effort in the work bringing their best each day, they also like to recommend and refer their companies to others. Yes. So, when you are working for a good company, okay, you brag about it, you’re like, Oh, my God, benefits are great, oh, my God, I get all this vacation time. Oh, my God, my supervisors. Awesome. Oh, my God, do you see where I’m going with that?

I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve had people working for large corporations here in the Phoenix area that are like, You must tell everyone not to work for this company, this company, this company, this company, and this company. Why? Because they treat their employees like doo-doo. So just look at the how the customers and they treat their customers like doodoo I mean, that’s the mark of arrogance. It’s like thinking you can just treat people horribly, and that they’ll still keep coming back. No, no, no. Doesn’t work that way.

So, okay, so continuing on, unmotivated employees. So, they don’t they tell if you hear about unmotivated employees, that is one of the red flags of a bad company, unmotivated employees damage the company’s overall look. And they’re also one of the warning signs of a bad company culture. They channel their displeasure into behaviors that decrease customer experience and satisfaction.

No recognition for your work, employee appreciation, it consists consistently ranks as one of the strongest drivers of engagement. And here’s the problem. A lot of companies lately have been going. Oh, here’s a pizza for all your hardware. Ah, people, money talks, pizza walks, you know what I’m saying? So, yeah, you want to get with a company that’s not just giving you pizza and being like, pat on the back. Good job. You know, keep doing all this incredibly hard work. No, you want somebody who’s compensating you and showing you your value. Hello. You know what I’m saying? Like I said, money talks, pizza walks, you keep that in your head because if they’re giving you pizza, and they’re not giving you money compensation, get the hell out, get a different job.

Kris Godinez  08:44

Okay, hold on. Um, unstable work-life balance. Now, when John was working for a company that I shall not name because I can’t because I don’t want to get sued. Here in the valley. IT. You’ll figure it out. Um, he was a nervous wreck. He had no work-life balance. They were insisting that he work, you know, 20 hours a day. They are still very big on hiring right out of college. And they’re still very big on, you know, working people, and they want people to stay until the wee hours of the morning. Well, that might be great if you’re obsessive about your job and you don’t have a family. But if you’ve got work-life balance, then you’re going to want to spend time with your family, your dog, your cat, your you know, whatever your friends Hello. So, work-life balance is huge. So, if you’re working with a corporation that is constantly having you do overtime, and your salary, Houston, we have a huge effing problem. Salary over time. You don’t get overtime, so your per-hour salary keeps going down, the more overtime you work. So, I love it when they go, we’ll give you a pizza. Ah, that that is three hours of my life, I’ll never get back. You know what I’m saying? It’s a work-life balance. And in companies that do this, they treat their employees like slaves, or treat their employees like indentured servants or treat their employees like this less than human. They generally have got at the top, somebody who has personality disorder guarantee and take it to the bank and earn interest on it. There’s a huge reason why I work for myself because I worked with enough corporations to go, you’re disordered, you’re disordered. Oh my God, no, I’m not even going to go interview there. You know what I’m saying? So um, so that that is the sign of somebody that is, it’s always from the top, it’s like, doo doo runs downhill. If the top of the corporation is unhealthy, the rest of the corporation is eventually going to become unhealthy.

Look at what happened to Disney. In the two years, two years it took Bob Chapek two years to completely FUBAR that company. And it had to take the previous CEO to come back and start trying to fix it. So, do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like it rolls down from the top, and it was clear the last time I went there; remember I told you in May, I went there, and maybe employees were unhappy. It was the unhappiest place on earth, not the happiest place on earth. And you could tell, and I’m sorry, but happy employees are what’s the word I’m looking for? It’s wonderful. I love walking into a place where the employees are genuinely happy. Not fake, happy, not oh my god, I have to do this because I need this paycheck. Like they genuinely like what they are doing. It makes me happy. So, for example, when we take our dogs in to get groomed, our groomer loves what she does. She loves the dogs. And you can tell. So yeah, it does. Yeah, okay, hold on.

So unstable work-life balance. So, if they’re insisting that you were over time, and you’re salaried. A lack of company and project direction. A strong company direction is a sign of a healthy workplace culture, from strategy and vision to well-defined projects. Employees who believe in the nation’s direction are more likely to invest in their work because they know it will make a difference. How many of us have worked for a corporation where it didn’t make a difference? Because they were constantly changing their direction, or they were constantly changing their focus, right? That’s part of the reason why I quit working at the homeless shelter is because we got taken over by a guy that was all about the Benjamins and not about the patients. So, it’s like, Ah, no, you’ve got to believe in what you’re doing. They’ve got to have a direction. They can’t just be willy-nilly all over the place, you know? And if they keep changing things on you, or if they get rid of people, and then pile on the work and go, Oh, well, we’re short-staffed, you need to take that up. That’s outside your scope. That is outside your scope. I did not join this organization to do two- or three people’s jobs. And that’s what I see happen. That’s abuse, guys. That’s abuse. Because then if they come back at you and go, Why didn’t you get this done? Why didn’t you get down? Because you didn’t hire enough people to do it. Mofo! You know what I’m saying?

So yeah, it I get very angry about this because it makes me angry that they take advantage, specifically, of younger workers. This is what I see happening. Is that some because I can’t tell you the number of clients, I’ve had to guide through their interview process and what’s going on in the corporation and oh, no, this is, this is this is not good. There. This is outside your scope nope they’re piling on too much. You know, because they don’t know because they haven’t had the experience. And disordered people, like we talked about two weeks ago lie they go for younger and younger targets of abuse. They like to be able to manipulate the naive those that don’t have the experience. So absolutely. If you’ve got children, grandchildren, nieces, great nieces, great nephews, whatever, educate them on the signs of a toxic company because the employers are betting that you guys are going to Oh, Johnny, if you could do me a huge favor, if you could put the eeoc.gov Eeoc.gov. That is where you go to report hostile work environment, racism, ageism, etc. So, eeoc.gov. All right, hold on.

So back to this scope creep. We started talking about that. So, scope creep occurs when employees are asked to work outside their defined responsibilities, which also includes them piling on other people’s work because that’s, that’s not cool. You’ve got your own work. Why should you be doing three other people’s work? It is typically a slow process that happens over time, first presented as a special request, but then it becomes expected. You are going to have to tell the boss No. Now, are you terrified of getting fired, probably. But here’s the deal. If you do not set boundaries with these Jack wagons, they will mow straight over you. And if you see them doing that to other people, then you may want to start looking at getting another job somewhere else. Because if they’re doing it to other people, they will eventually do it to you. A good boss knows not to do that, a good boss knows to go to their boss and go, ah, we need to hire more people. No, we’re not going to pile on more stuff to these guys. They’ve already got enough. Okay.

So going back to John, when he was working for this corporation, they started doing all this scope, creep and piling on work and bad supervisors and all this other stuff. And they were all using the stick instead of the carrot. So, abusers truly believe that if you just hit somebody hard enough and often enough that they’re suddenly going to start producing because they’re crazy, and they’re sadistic. So, when you start doing that to employees, they start getting sick, like physically and mentally. John was to the point with that one job that he was pacing up and down all night. He was nervous wreck. What is this guy going to pull? Now? How is he going to try to blame me this time? Does that sound familiar scapegoat? Oh, boy, corporations are only as healthy as the people at the top. And what I’ve spent seen happening they started promoting up and out the disordered wants to get them out of that particular, you know, group and into another one because they didn’t want to have to deal with them. Well, unfortunately, you keep doing that; those jerks seemingly become into positions of power. But they eventually fail because they cannot actually produce, they can only steal, they can only lie, they can only bully, okay, they need to be removed, and documentation needs to be done. We’re going to talk about that hold on just a second,

I want to go through the 15 warning signs, extreme criticism using the stick instead of the carrot. So, negativity has a significant impact on employee motivation and confidence when feedback crosses the line to extreme criticism slash abuse. It is one of the signs of a bad company culture, bad reputation and reviews, we talked about that aggressive political opinions seep into the workday. So, in our environment, now, it’s not a good idea to talk politics, politics, like American politics, or any politics in the workplace. If there is somebody in your workplace that is aggressively pushing their political view, that can be considered abuse, especially if it is in the policy that you guys do not discuss politics. So that is something else to watch out for, or religion or anything else that could cause division and upset inside the company. So, it’s all about cohesiveness. A good boss creates a cohesive, accepting, kind culture. A bad boss creates division, divide and conquer. That’s what narcissists do if they can get the two siblings fighting each other. They’re in power. They’re controlling, and they win. So, it’s the same thing in jobs.

Kris Godinez  18:18

Absence of core company values, clearly stated company values are a powerful declaration of a company’s intended culture. And they’re also the glue that holds the workplace together. It also helps define what is allowed and what is not allowed. And it sets the tone for hiring. Because in each of these instances, basically, the bottom line comes to you’ve got to have somebody who’s hiring, who’s well versed in disordered people so that if they see signs of this, they don’t hire them, or promote them, or do whatever. So, it’s on an individual level, and it’s on the corporate level. Okay, hold on.

Competition over collaboration. Competition is healthy in the workplace, especially when it is friendly and rooted in collaborative culture. However, culture can take a big, big hit when competition overcomes collaboration. Who does that sound like? That sounds like a narcissist. Everything is a competition. I have to win. That’s what they do. A company that has high turnover rates that is a huge red flag. The pay does not meet the responsibility level. They’re not meeting the industry standard. And that happens a lot here in Arizona. So, they’ll pay somebody less, and they’ll be like, oh, well, but it’s Arizona. And I’m like, Oh, well, but it doesn’t matter. Pay needs to meet the responsibility level. Employees rarely take lunch breaks or breaks at all. Federally mandated guys, federally mandated you get two breaks and a lunch break. Okay? And if you’re not taking a lunch break because they’re making You work on your lunch break, this is a bad company, okay? And they’re just going to keep pushing the boundaries pretty soon. Like I said, you’re going to have to work on weekends, you’re going to be taking phone calls all the time. And that’s another thing. Company phone. This needs to be clearly defined. You are there Monday through Friday, 8am to 5 pm or 6 pm. However late you work, but that’s it. They do not get to encroach on your weekends, period. And I’ve seen them do that. Okay, sense of boredom and unhappiness. So those are the 15 warning signs of a bad corporation.

Now here is work bullying, toxicity, I can’t say that word. This is by Harvard Business Review, how bullying manifests at work and how to stop it. Okay, there’s different types of bullying. So bullying facet, goal direction motivation, so the bullying feature is hostile or hot, or emotional. So, sample behaviors and outcomes, yelling at someone in anger, throwing things, lying to get someone fired, or otherwise make them suffer out of personal or identity-based hatred slash, harassment or intense insecurity. Hmm. Who does that sound like? Sounds like a dark triad. Sounds like a narcissist. Instrumental, aka cold spreading rumors, lies, distortions to remove a perceived threat, a claim of their office space funding position, or other resources. Okay, immediacy, direct, punching, yelling, open blaming, and shaming, sending angry messages, antagonistic and hostile body language indirect, spreading rumors, withholding information taking you off of important chats are taking you off of important emails circumventing and sabotaging.

Okay, visibility overt humiliating silencing someone in front of others telling somebody to shut up that’s abuse; sorry, period end stop, full stop. Full freakin stop. Second, if somebody tells you to shut up at work you get up you walk out, and you quit because you do not put up that is harassment. Covert, gaslighting, withholding information, subtle blaming. Isn’t it interesting how Harvard Business Review is using the terms that describe a narcissist or a dark triad in their bullying thing. And this is Harvard Business Review and business management November 4, 2022, by Ludmil Praslova, Ron Carucci and Caroline Stokes, How Bullying Manifests at Work and How to Stop it okay. Okay, targeting the boss, the bully boss, 65 reported cases there 65% of reported cases is the boss bullying downwards. Horizontal 20%, 21% are coworkers upward bullying by subordinates, 14% And then mixed. So, it causes physical illness burnout, disability, anxiety, depression, PTSD, insomnia, nightmares, loss of confidence, suicidal ideation, loss of reputation, friendships, trust support and professional networks, loss of income, loss of time productivity and revenue. turnover and replacement costs absence in health care costs, legal actions, reputational and brand damage, limited talent pool because people eventually stop working for these corporations.

Okay, so then, how do you deal with these people? These 15 features can be mapped to some of the common archetype bullies. Take the schemer. There are the Screamer, who is associated with yelling and fist banging, like hitting the fist on the on the desk. They do that too. Or the quieter but equally dangerous schemer, so you’ve got the Screamer and the schemer, who uses Machiavellian plotting, gaslighting and smear campaigns to strip others of resources or to push them out. The schemer doesn’t necessarily have a position of legitimate power and can present as a smiling and eager-to-help colleague or even an innocent-looking intern, while hostile motivation and overt tactics aligned with the Screamer bully archetype and instrumental. Indirect and covert bullying is typical of the schemer. A bully can have multiple motivations and use multiple tactics consciously or unconsciously. I would say consciously I don’t think any of this is unconscious.

Okay, so one of the ways that targets of abuse really get hammered by corporate culture is workplace bullying myths. Common myths about bullying, for example, is that it’s simply holding people to a higher standard. Oh, I’m being hard on them. Because I want them to do better. Can I just say Moo? We’re having a competitive, you know, personality, or we want competition. However, bullying in the myths about it hinders outcomes. There is a myth that bullies are often star performers. However, the actual star performers are more likely to be the targets rather than the bullies. The bullies are usually mediocre performers who may appear to be stars, while in fact, they often take credit for the work of others. Moreover, bullies are not motivated by organizational goals. They are driven by self-interest, often at the expense of organizations. Research indicates that bullies often envy and covertly victimized organization-focused high performers who are particularly capable, caring, and conscientious. Not only are bullies not the stars, but one toxic employee negates the gains of the performance of two superstars and likely creates additional costs. The motivation myth justifies bullying as management or motivation, helping low-performing individuals improve. indeed low performers are more likely to experience bullying than mediocre ones, but it does not help them improve. Rather it can further hinder the performance creativity, collaboration, and delivering on business goals due to employee distress like I was telling you about with John.

So okay, ineffective interventions, blaming the target, that’s that’s never going to work, demanding that the target prove that they haven’t done anything to deserve this, that’s never going to work. Placing the burden of proof and anti-bullying work on the target is never going to work. A reactive approach addresses bullying after the individual, and organizational harm has already occurred. However, the first line of defense against all workplace bullies should be prevention. A systematic approach to creating a worker a safer workplace indicates that you need to have organizational systems in place that will effectively screen out dark triads, so facilities that are in are inclusive and psychologically healthy. They do double duty and preventing bullying. effective anti-bullying mechanisms are indicated rooted in organizational justice, transparency, and focus on outcomes and the use of valid instruments and decision makings.

Kris Godinez  27:35

They’re supported by tools that facilitate inclusive, flexible work, voice, and participation, addressing hostile bullying, stopping the screamer, so you can stop the Screamer with obviously selection and training is your first line of defense don’t hire these people in the first place. Organizations legally can and must screen out based on negative characteristics that is demonstrably related to poor performance, such as arrogance in leadership. Training employees and nonviolent communication is another important tool. So, for example, it’s in your workplace culture, it’s in your workplace guidebooks, in your training. So, a violent or bullying would be you call this report this garbage is insulting; you don’t know how to write the way. A better way to say this would be I am disappointed that I cannot afford or use this draft of the report. I need clarity. Please arrange the numerical data in tables and write four or five clear bullet point takeaways. So, in other words, childish behavior versus adult behavior and correction. So, abusers go immediately for the anger, you know, and for the put-downs and for the nastiness.

So, stopping the schemer. So, you want to have performances are based on open ways of okay, so equitable, fair, legitimate ways to obtain rewards, promotions, resource allocation, and other crucial decisions should be based on transparent and accurately measured performance outcomes. eyeballing performance, rewards, bragging, credit, taking, and possessing external markers of privilege are not going to help. Moreover, ensuring justice and organization decisions requires mechanisms for correcting high-stakes decisions when necessary, such as if the information they were based on was incomplete or false. So basically, again, it’s making sure that it’s an open kind of thing. It’s not, you know, Oh, I did all the work, and I’m going to brag, and I’m going to stand up and tell everybody how great I am and therefore, I deserve all the credit. So that kind of thing.

Preventing bullying you basically if you have witnesses, that’s huge. You want to document everything. If somebody speaks to you in a way that is unacceptable. You stop them cold. You will not call me names, period. Okay, you were here. You saw that, right? You heard that right. Um, You’ve just got to be a little bit aggressive about it. You’ve got to be a little bit like ah; I’m not going to put up with us, you know, engaging the I statements. I am not going to put up with this when you can keep a civil tone in your head; please come see me other than that, I’m going to my boss bye. And you walk off you know you don’t put up with bullies; for the most part are cowards, absolute cowards. They like to do hit-and-run screw us. And they like to harm. They like to hurt, they like to embarrass, they like to intimidate. So, standing your ground with a bully, like seriously, body language is huge. Bullies look for people who are kind of unsure of themselves and kind of collapsed in on themselves if you are standing in your like, you will not talk to me like that; I will not put up with that they tend to back right the hell off because they know you’re not going to put up with it. And you haven’t said or done anything wrong. Now, if you’re in a corporate culture where they are making you that guy for standing up for yourself, quit, just quit, just quit. Leave them hanging, you know, it’s I have no sympathy for people, organizations that do that. Okay, so, alright, so that’s that one.

All right, and then how to stop workplace bullying, and then I will get to the questions. Okay, so we’ve gone over the types of bullying, you know, lacks empathy, has few friends, has a need for explaining power and control, struggling with interpersonal differences, feeling empowered by causing conflict or chaos, and making other feels threatened. They suffer from low self-esteem, they may have been bullied themselves. Who cares? Maybe a trauma survivor, I’m going to argue with that. So, a lot of times where I’ve heard is, there’s the new apologists out there. And Kim Saeed just did a fantastic article on this. And she talked about these apologists who are not psychologists who have not studied this stuff. And they’re like, Oh, poor abusers. They’ve been bullied themselves. Poor abusers. They’ve abused themselves. Okay. How many of us survivors were abused? How many of us went on to become abusers ourselves? Nobody. Wow. So, then I’m sorry. These bullies had ample opportunity to go get help, and they haven’t. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, when somebody does the apologist thing, oh, they were abused themselves. Oh, I’m going to make excuses for them. That’s exactly it. They’re making excuses for them. They know what they’re doing. They enjoy what they’re doing. They are sadistic. They are generally dark triads, which means a narcissist, psychopath Machiavellian, no empathy, guys. None, zip zero, zilch. There is no excuse. Let me just say that again. There is no excuse for bullying or abuse, period. I don’t give a flying rat’s ass what their background was. Okay. I don’t care if they were abused or if they have low self-esteem. Go get a therapist and frickin work on it! Ya jack wagon! Do you hear where I’m going with that? They know. They know what they are. They know what they’re doing. They’re not innocent. They’re choosing. They are choosing to be abusive. So don’t fall for that. And if some organization does the whole Oh, well, you know, they had a rough track. So, did I Biotch! I’m not putting up with this. Ah, this ain’t going to fly. So, and don’t listen to the apologists that sit there and tell you that narcissists can change. They can’t. They can’t, and they won’t. And if you ever get a hold of Kim Saeed I ever posted on my webpage. If you can find her article and read it, it’s excellent because she’s absolutely right. There’s apologists out there that want people to believe that the poor abuser are I have no sympathy, zip, zero, zilch. Nada. You got a choice. And if you’re abusing you’re less than dirt, in my opinion, so there it is. All right, where are we? Okay.

Relational bullying, gossiping, ignoring, excluding, or participating in cliques. Physical bullying, dirty looks invading personal space, you know, trying to intimidate, offensive gestures or facial expressions or physical assault, verbal ability, bullying; passive-aggressive comments, negative or critical comments about appearance or personality. So personal attack, demanding bossy behavior, rumors, hostile language in name-calling, stealing, or damaging items. A boss who swears of you puts you down calls your name or physically intimidates you by standing behind you while you work at your desk. A group of coworkers who make snarky comments, make faces at you, excludes you from social activities and make you feel unwelcome. A colleague who backstabs you by spreading rumors and prevents you from accessing resources that you need to get your work done, including causing a paper jam in your printer the day a big report was due healthy workplace environments can make you feel like part of the community. Meanwhile, unhealthy workplace environments where bullying is tolerated can have the opposite effect, and can be detrimental to your self-esteem, your mental health and possibly triggering or exacerbating conditions such as depression, anxiety, substance abuse, trauma, PTSD, and more. Or it feels really familiar. Like you’re back in your family, holy cow. You know, if it feels familiar, get out. If it feels familiar in a bad way, get out.

Okay, so stop bullying at work. So, creating physical distance, keep your distance and keep your options open, keep your cool, gray rock, breathe deeply, and avoid being reactive. They need chaos, like the rest of us need oxygen. So, you’ve got to not engage, like the crazier they get, the calmer you get. Because that’ll do two things. One, they’ll lose it to the point where other people are going to see it because they can’t handle you not engaging because that’s what they’re trying to do, poking the bear trying to get you to roar back at them. And if you’re just cool as a cucumber, Mm hmm. All right, you’re done.

Kris Godinez  36:17

I’m not putting up with this. Drives them crazy. And that’s what you want. You want them to show their true colors. So, there is that? Um, okay, avoid interrupting or provoking bullies to de-escalate the situation. So don’t try to explain yourself. This is the big thing when somebody is dedicated to misunderstanding you. There is nothing you can say to make them see you for who you really are. Because they don’t care. They don’t care. They want you to be the bad guy. They want to take the stuff out on you. They want you to be the whipping post boy howdy. Nothing you say is going to change them. You cannot speak reason or logic to them. Because there is not there. There. Okay. Okay. Practice, okay, practice gray rock. She says practice empathy. I have no sympathy. I can have empathy; okay, they’re screwed up. They’re suffering, and that’s why they’re doing what they’re doing. However, I am not going to practice idiot compassion. I will not allow them to do that to me in my space or to any of my coworkers not on my watch. Have fun with that. If I could throw a middle finger, I would.

Be consciously responsive, not emotionally reactive. Hang on to your confidence. Remove yourself and seek assistance, say something to the bully, and document it. Maintain eye contact stay tall with your shoulders back, and hold your ground. Speak honestly, assertively and diplomatically. Use I statements just like I said, to express your feelings and set healthy boundaries demonstrate respect for yourself and others with a tone that is professional and firm. No yelling, no name calling, none of that be direct and neither passive nor aggressive when setting boundaries with statements such as I am not comfortable with the volume of this conversation. If we cannot speak calmly, I will need to end this call, or I will need to end this conversation. It is not okay to call me that name. I feel uncomfortable being blocked by you. I need you to move, please. You know, document what you said by writing it down and emailing it to yourself. So, you have a timestamp record in case the event happens again, or you need to file a form report. Keep it factual no emotions keep it objective and true. Today, Sue said you’re a loser and I replied, It is not okay to speak to me that way. This is that is workplace bullying, and I will not tolerate it. Boom. There you go. Tell someone and file a report. To tell someone else tell someone else what happened. Tell your boss. If it’s your boss, that’s the bully tell your boss’s boss if you feel comfortable going to HR do so now remember, HR is there to protect the company not so much the employees. But companies don’t like being sued. They do not like being sued. If you do not tell a trusted mentor or even co-worker who may have a trusted boss or supervisor higher up in the organization. That’s a great idea.

Some organizations even allow anonymous reporting of bullying or harassment in the workplace. So, look at your company’s employee policies and procedures. Seek a good therapist work on assertiveness. So, a lot of us coming out of abusive relationships find ourselves in abusive work relationships. Why? Well, inner child so oh my gosh, this feels really familiar. Must be okay. Kind of like the same thing with dating, right? Somebody that reminds us of the person we had the hardest time with. So, it is an inner child issue. It is. Trust your gut. If it feels familiar in a bad way. Do not accept the job. Do not accept the job. Don’t if they’re like, wow, this kind of sounds like you know my abuser. Ooh, maybe not, you know, don’t accept the job. Read the customer reviews, see what people are saying about this place; that’s going to tell you a lot, and yes, I am going to get to the questions. Okay, practice, practice mindfulness, deep breathing, and yoga. Create a support system at work by seeking out like-minded colleagues and find a trusted mentor. Work a mental fitness program such as the financial mindset fix of mental fitness program for an abundant life.

And then it says empower the bystander. So recent study shows that bystanders exist in 88% of workplace bullying incidences, and usually, the usual response is apathy and overlooking what they have observed rather than having the moral courage to stand up and say something and file a report fear is what prevents the silent observers from stepping in fear of becoming a target, fear of retaliation, and fear of making the situation worse. Empowering the bystander is one of the most effective ways to stop workplace bullying. Bystanders need to do one of three things say something right then and there in front of everyone. That’s not okay. I heard what you said. That’s not okay. Say something in private to the bully that wasn’t cool. Or the victim? Are you okay? Do you want help filing a report. Now see, I’m aggressive enough that I would say that’s not okay. I will help you fill out a report. Boom, bring it, bring it. Try me. You know what I’m saying? Um, okay, there’s that tell a supervisor or HR rep do not ignore workplace bullying, or nothing will change. And again, the corporate culture is truly going to influence whether observers are going to stand up or not. So, in corporations, they have got to make it a part of their policy. If you see something, you say something, you know, without fear of retribution or retaliation, the companies where there’s fear of retribution or fear period, are companies that are run by abusers, narcissists, borderlines, you know, that are just cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs that are malignant, you know, dark triads, they’re the ones that are running those corporations because they create a corporate culture of fear. And they create a corporate culture of retribution and vindictiveness. And I’ll get you my pretty, and that is all dark triad.

So, you want to make sure that you stand up for yourself. It’s not going to do any good to cower. It’s not going to do any good to hide. So the fight flight freeze or fawn response, when you’re dealing with a bully nine times out of 10, you’re gonna go to that response that you had when you were a kid, which is why it’s so important to get with a good trauma therapist, so that you can work on that so that you can stand up for yourself and be assertive, you know, no, and I mean it. So, it’s like, I taught my little kids when I was doing the grief, you know, groups, if somebody was bullying, or doing something that one of the kids didn’t like, we taught them if somebody’s doing something, you don’t like, put your hand out and say stop, and I mean it loudly. And then of course, that would get the attention of one of the volunteers and we would go mediate. And that’s what needs to happen, unfortunately, in corporate and culture, corporate culture, because they need to create a situation a culture of support, and no, we’re not going to tolerate this and stop and I mean, it also alerts people around that’s, that’s going to get people’s attention, stop and I mean it, period. That’s going to get people’s attention, and then you just turn around and walk off, go to HR file report, eeoc.gov eeoc.gov. That is for reporting harassment, sexism, racism, whatever. ageism, harassment, hostile work environment, you betcha.

So, and then get with a good attorney. If this is like going on and it’s causing you distress and it’s a corporate culture. And there’s other people get an attorney, get an attorney. It’s that’s the only thing some of these jerks understand. So, but don’t put up with it. There is not a reason on the face of the planet you should put up with it. Okay.

Um, I’ve been asked to put together communication guidelines for my office. Is it worthwhile to include standards for basic civility? Yes, we will office narcs subvert those anyway. Well, but if you put them into the guidelines for the office, and they start going around them, then you have a case for getting them fired because they’re not doing what they should be doing. So, in those standards for civility, no named calling so it’s basically what you’re going to do is you’re going to do a list of deal breakers. What will you not put up with no name-calling? No disrespect, no line, no gaslighting, no cheating, No stealing, you know, the whole thing but civility? Yeah, you’ll probably write it out, and now it’s in black and white, and if they are going against those guidelines. Now you have some, now you have some paper trail that you could go with so yeah, absofreakinglutely!

Is it very common for companies which are supposed to help people to have the most toxic people working for them? Yes. Because remember, abusers whether they are dark triads, narcissists, malignant borderlines, are attracted to positions of power. Okay. I think I’ve told you the story before. I had a peer support that worked for me that was an absolute abuser, I think, in my personal opinion, and he enjoyed laughing at the severely mentally ill, not okay, not okay.

Kris Godinez  45:43

So, we had a couple of clients at the homeless shelter more than a couple, but the two I’m thinking of that had schizophrenia, and they literally couldn’t follow directions because they were too busy listening to the good voice and the bad voice scream at each other. And then, the peer support was trying to give them directions. And then he would just get mad and yell at them. And I’m like, Ah, you Stop that crap right here right now. They can’t. And so, what I did is I had one person stand on one side of the peer support, another person stand on the other and scream and yell, and then me in front, try to give directions. He still didn’t get it, but at least he kind of was like, oh, no, like, yeah, that’s what they’re dealing with. You need to stand down, basically sit down and shut up. So yeah, they are attracted to positions of power. I found that in care work, coworkers were very much more toxic than in other companies. Yes. And the problem of it is, like I said, care workers are entrusted with the most vulnerable people in our population, the elderly, the demented, the mentally ill, and the very young hmm. Those are all easily abused populations. And it frightens me how many care organizations are filled with abusers, usually covert. They’re usually really good at hiding it. They’re usually really good at, you know, pretending to be nicey nicey. But then as soon as they’re not being watched, they’re, you know, yanking people around or, you know, hitting them or abusing them in some way, shape, or form. So, yes, there, you’re 110% Correct. And unfortunately, it starts at the top, and it rolls down. So, you want to take a look at who runs the company, and you want to take a look at what their policies are. And you want to take a look at how they deal with abuse claims. And, you know, sometimes my mom think God was in a really good care facility. There was no abuse going on, which was, and they loved her, which was really good. So, we knew she was really well taken care of. But we heard of other care facilities in that town where people were afraid to say anything because they were afraid of their loved ones being abused because they couldn’t put them into a care facility that was different. So, you cannot allow fear to stop you. Because if they’re doing it to your loved one, they’re going to do it to somebody else. And this is where you get the media involved. This is where you put as many eyes on it as you possibly can. There are cockroaches they scatter in the sun. So yeah, it’s unfortunate, but yes, in care positions, and I think we’ve talked about this a few weeks ago. They are attracted to positions of power, so they’re attracted to psychology. Yay. They’re attracted to medical nurses, doctors, counselors, peer support, eldercare childcare. That’s where you’re going to find nurses are also attracted to being judges, police officers, and attorneys. So anywhere that there is a position of power, they’re going to be attracted to that they’re going to want to be in that position because gives them that that narcissistic, Cocaine. you know what I’m saying? So, there is that so yeah, you’re not wrong.

Um, any advice for dealing with a boss who’s a narc? enabler in denial? Okay. It depends on the corporation. So, if they’re enabling the abusers around them, and they’re denying that these people are doing this, they’re either a narcissist themselves, or they’re just completely ignorant. So remember, flying monkeys are one of two things, so they’re either narcissists themselves or they do not understand how narcissists work and how detrimental really they are to the company because it forces all the good people out, and then pretty soon you’re left with a complete doo doo show, because it’s just a bunch of self-serving narcs that are not going to really do anything except trying to stroke their own ego, so I would, you know, you could try to educate them. But if it’s clear that they’re narcs themselves, their narcissistic themselves, and that they are enjoying the drama, and they’re enjoying the other narcissists, then I would start looking for another job. I really, truly would.

Okay, so next week, we will be talking about dealing with siblings. So, we’re going to be talking about dealing, if you’re dealing with a dark triad sibling, if you’re dealing with a borderline sibling, if you’re dealing with a disordered sibling, if you’re dealing with somebody who’s playing the games, a flying monkey sibling, we’re going to be talking about how to deal with that because that seems to be up for a lot of people. So all right, I think that’s it. You guys. Have a great week. I will talk to you on Wednesday with any questions I did not get to. And then next Sunday, we’ll be dealing with siblings. All right, my loves, you guys. Be good. And take care of yourselves, and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.