Kris Godinez 00:02
Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.
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Okay, let’s dive into it, shall we? So today, I wanted to talk about contrast and compare, contrast and compare. So, I think what happens a lot of times, and especially when we’ve come from an abusive family, or we’ve had abusive relationships, is we’re not really sure what the heck we’re looking for. So, this is going to be a little bit of review for some of you, and for some of you, this is going to be brand new information. So that’s okay, because it’s always good to review. All right, so contrast and compare.
So, what abusers do when they are hunting for a new supply, okay? They are often, not always but often, found on dating websites. I cannot say this enough, there’s a slew of predators on dating websites, and what abusers do versus what healthy people do in dating is this: and we’re gonna we’re gonna do a little contrasting period compare all the way through to the relationships and or whatever. So with an abuser, what they do is they must they must make an immediate connection and, and enmeshment as soon as they meet someone. That’s not normal. So, in a healthy dating situation, and I pulled up a whole bunch of sites from Psychology Today on what is a healthy dating situation, what is an unhealthy dating situation? We’re gonna go through those. So, what predators do is they have to secure their narcissistic supply as soon as possible. So, in an unhealthy situation, the person meets you and mirrors you perfectly. That’s not normal. So, mirroring somebody perfectly is. Okay, if you’ve ever watched frozen, I’m going to use this as the example again, frozen Princess Ana and Hans. So, Hans, you know, you know, honestly, she likes ice skate. He likes to ice skate. She likes pizza. He likes pizza. She likes mousse. He likes mousse. It’s like, oh, he’s my soulmate. Oh, he’s my Twin Flame, or whatever the new agey blend is. So they mirror you perfectly like, and that’s not normal guys in a healthy relationship, there is going to be differences there, there’s gonna be differences, you know, you’re not going to, like, exactly, and I do mean exactly all of the exact same things. And that’s what an abuser does is because they’re trying to create that illusion of being your soulmate of being your twin flame of being the perfect person in your life. You know, where have you been all my life, blah, blah, blah. So, they mirror you, mirror you, mirror you, mirror you. And they will claim that they like everything you like and think the way you think and enjoy the same things you do. And that should be your first red flag. That really should because it’s like in a healthy relationship, there’s differences. You’re not going to match 110% But that’s what these abusers do is they match us, like mirror us, mirror image 110%. And that should be a huge red flag.
Yeah, you’re gonna have hopefully some things in common. I mean, that’s what kind of keeps relationships going is that you have enough in common so that you can do things together and enjoy things together. But then you go apart and do your own thing. And then you come together and do your thing as a couple and then you go apart and do your own thing. You know, that’s a normal kind of flow of a relationship. But what an abuser does in trying to secure a narcissistic supply they match you 100% Everything you like, they like everything you think they think, everywhere you go, they want to go, you know, that kind of thing.
The next thing you will see in unhealthy versus healthy, in this dating situation is, in a healthy dating situation, you meet the person, you kind of feel out the energy, feel out if you like them or not, you know, see if there’s any sort of, you know, vibing, what the abuser will do is then go into overdrive to create that bond, okay? So, over the top, over the top, complimenting over the top, you know, oh, you’re just so perfect. I want to be with you over the top, courting kind of stuff. And not only that, they’re wanting to spend every single waking moment with you. So, in a healthy dating situation, it’s more like you feel it out, you see if there’s, you know, enough there that you guys kind of have some chemistry, but what the abuser does is they take the chemistry to the 10th level. I mean, they’re just like, gotta get chemistry, gotta get it now. Gotta get it, you know, and so then they want to be with you all the time. Why physically? Why oxy tocin, the bonding chemical between mamas and babies and couples. So, what they do is, is they want to be with you. So, let’s say that, you know, you meet the person, you’re feeling it out. Yeah, you like them. Yeah, you’re jiving. Yeah, whatever. And then they want to see you the next day. Or they want to see you in two days, or they want to see you, you know, three, four or five times that week. That’s not normal. But what ends up happening is, is that our egos go, oh, this person’s really into me, oh, this is great. Oh, I have all these feel good chemicals going, oh my God, that should be a huge red flag. Especially if the person is wanting to see you three, four or five times a night or a week or night, a week, you know, after you just met them. What is a normal dating situation as you see them maybe twice a week, you know, or you see them once a week, and you just keep the process of learning who they are slow and steady. Whereas with the abusers it’s like a rocket taking off. It’s like zero to 60.
So that’s the other red flag is that healthy dating takes its time, you take your time, because this is an emotional investment. This is a physical investment. This is you know; you’re putting you’re, you’re laying yourself open. And you don’t want to do that for just anybody. Okay, and especially an abuser, because they will… psychic vampires suck you dry. And that’s what they want. So, they try to push the dating the wooing process, lightning fast, lightning fast, lightning-fast lightning fast. So, from the time they meet their target to the time that they have moved in is usually less than a month. Again, not normal, not normal, take your time. And what they’re doing again, is they’re doing the oxytocin, they’re making sure that you are physically bonded to them, and emotionally bonded to them, they start you know, and they’re overly sexual, overly sexual, overly sexual, overly sexual, again, to get that bonding going to get that emotional bonding, going to get that physical bonding, going that whole thing. Take your time, in a healthy dating situation, you find out about the person, you meet their friends, you talk to their friend group, you do everything and here’s a red flag, they generally don’t have a whole lot of friends.
Kris Godinez 08:52
And or they don’t introduce you, or they keep you a secret, which Oh, Lord, that’s a whole other can of worms. So, you take your time, so you get to see them in the true light, not just the light of the magic thinking and the and the love bombing. And all of this. Healthy People don’t love them Healthy People don’t love them. And they take their time, they go super, super slow, and they learn everything they can about each other, you know, but they never use it against the other person.
So, here’s another red flag. You just meet this person, and they’re asking you all sorts of really personal questions. And you share because you’ve come from an abusive relationship yourself, either a family or a romantic relationship. You overshare and then they’re just filing that stuff away to be used against you at a later time. That is not normal. That is not normal. So, if somebody is asking you all of these questions, but they’re divulging very little about themselves, that too is a huge red flag. So that’s in the beginning of the relationship. And these are things you guys should be looking for if somebody is pushing, pushing, pushing or on your girlfriend on your boyfriend, within a month of meeting you and dating you, just because they’ve been insisting to come over every day, every other day, whatever, that does not a boyfriend or a girlfriend make sorry. So, it’s like, you take your time, and you limit the times a week that you see the person, that’s going to tell you a lot, because if they’re cool with seeing you once a week or twice a week, okay, you’re probably doing okay. If they’re not, if they’re angry that you don’t want to see them more, or if they lose interest, because you don’t want to see them more red flag, red flag, red flag, because you want to take your time, and you want to have time enough apart so that you can process and think and feel, how are you feeling? How do you feel when you’re with this person? How do you feel when you’re not with this person, etc, etc, etc. What an abuser does is they don’t want you to think they don’t want you to process. So that’s why it’s lightning fast. And that’s why it’s rocket ship takeoff. So, this is these are things to be very, very, very careful about.
As the relationship progresses, you will notice in an abusive relationship, okay, they’ve insisted on seeing you every other day, every day, whatever, the end of the month, your boyfriend, girlfriend, and the next thing you know, they’re moving in, or they’re leaving their stuff at your house. That’s another thing. Subtle, you know, they leave their stuff at your house, oh, well, I might as well just leave it here. I’m over here all the time anyway. You know, and they start doing things like that. And that is a huge red flag because they’re encroaching on your personal space. And they’re basically telling you, I’m moving in, you know, without you even realizing it. So, this is these are some of the things you’ve got to watch out for healthy, normal people don’t do that. Okay, you take your time. Seriously, take your time.
There’s this whole myth about oh, well, you know, you got to, you know, you date them three to six times, and then you sleep with them. No, no, no, what you do is, is you take your time, see if you like them or not, and it will progress. Naturally. There’s no, there’s no magic dating number before you decide to have sexual intimate relations. There’s not. What there should be, though, is how are you feeling? What is your gut telling you? How are things progressing? are they progressing normally, or are they being pushed at lightning speed.
So, as the relationship progresses, as the abuser starts to feel comfortable, like let’s say they’ve moved in, let’s say they’ve left all their stuff at your house, they’ve moved in, now they’re feeling comfortable. Now, what they’re going to do is they’re going to start getting rid of all your family and all your friends. Anybody who does not like them, anybody who’s got a concern about them, anybody who is nervous about them, anybody who’s trusting their gut and going, Ah, Houston, we got a problem. So what they’ll do is they’ll start dripping poison in your ear, about your family, your friends, your coworkers, your job, whatever is threatening to the abuser. That’s not normal in a healthy relationship. The other person wants to get to know your family and friends wants to be a part of the family and friends, you know what I’m saying? And make sure that they understand where everybody’s coming from and is comfortable. And, you know, that whole thing. So, you know, I go back to when John and I were dating, it’s like, I met his sister, and, you know, we had good long talks, and, you know, I like her and it’s just, you know, but what abusers do is they set about to alienate anybody that they are threatened by, and anybody that doesn’t immediately like them, okay, immediate liking is not going to happen. I mean, sometimes it happens, but, you know, it’s like, you got to get to know the person. And what they will do though is they will make sure to shut down anybody who doesn’t like them or who sees them for what they are.
So, what I see a lot in these relationships is the person fell susceptible to the love bombing. And they fell susceptible to the, the pushed agenda because it’s an agenda. It’s not they’re not doing this because they love you guys. Let us be very, very clear about that. They don’t love themselves. They don’t love anybody else. They’re doing this to secure their narcissistic supply. That’s all you are to them; you have no more meaning to them than this pen. Seriously. So, at this point, they’re securing that object, you… the narcissistic supply and in order to make sure it’s secure, they’ve got to get rid of anybody who is a threat. So, they start saying saying things like they don’t like your family, or they don’t like your friends, or they don’t you know, people that you’ve known either your whole life or for a very, very, very long time who have proven themselves to be loyal. Right? And they will start telling you to get rid of them, get rid of them, get rid of them. Pretty soon that then leads into the coworkers where you’re working your boss, pretty soon then that leads into the jealousy. You make friends at work. Oh, well, you’re always liked by everybody, aren’t you? Oh, yeah, they do that kind of crap. So, it goes from this love bomb, love, bomb, love, bomb, love, bomb to isolating, isolating, isolating, you can’t talk to anybody, you can’t see anybody. You can’t be with your family, you can’t be with your friends, to them controlling.
So, remember, abuse is never about love. Let us, let us be clear it’s like if someone starts controlling what you’re wearing, what you’re, you know, what
Kris Godinez 15:54
you’re wearing, what you’re not wearing, what you’re allowed to wear, what you’re not allowed to wear, who you can see who you cannot see, you’re with an abuser. That’s not normal, healthy, normal people in a relationship don’t do that. But what the abuser does is they then say, Oh, I was just so jealous. I was just so jealous. I just wanted to make sure that you were going to stay with me and, and it’s your fault for making me feel insecure. Oh, my freaking God, seriously, that’s what they do. So, they do the whole jealousy thing. And then they blame your family or your friends. And then they blame you. Well, you spend too much time with your family. I, what? If you have a healthy family, you want to spend time with them. If you don’t have a healthy family, you don’t want to spend time with them. If you have a healthy family you know, you like hanging out with them. I love it when we get to spend time with John’s sister and you know, Amy and the kids and everything because they’re fun, you know, so but, but an abuser doesn’t want that abuser wants their family, their friends. That’s it, you can’t have any of your own.
And, and what they will do is they will tell you point blank; they will tell your family and friends, I’m going to make sure you’re not in the family, I’m going to make sure you’re not talking to them because… they’re so arrogant. And they’re so convinced that they can manipulate the target of abuse. And oftentimes they can, especially if the target of abuse has not done their research into how these monsters behave, that they will then start defending the abuser and ostracizing the family and the friends that see the abuser for what they are. And it’s painful to watch. It is incredibly painful to watch because you’re watching this person go from kind upstanding, truth telling to lying, defending the abuser, you know, getting rid of the people, the very people who actually love them. So that these are all huge red flags Healthy People don’t do that! Healthy people meet the family meet the friends want to know who they are, want to have fun with them want to like them want to like them! Not looking for an excuse not to like them. Does that make sense?
So as the relationship progresses, then the jealousy factor comes in. And and that extends to What are you doing for a job, they get angry that you’re going off to a job and that you’re successful. And they will try to sabotage, they will make you late for work, they will, you know, do all of these things. So, and, and the devalue starts. So, the jealousy kicks in. And that’s not normal guys, let us be very clear. Jealousy is never a part of a healthy relationship. It is not! Jealousy is about power and control period. And what they will do is they will, say they’ll abuse and then they’ll use the jealousy as the excuse. Well, you made me You made me abuse you you made me, you you guns come out. And they are talking about themselves, but we don’t realize it. Okay. So, this is why I’m saying none of this is healthy in a healthy relationship. Jealousy does not play a part in a healthy relationship.
So um, here is the signs of a healthy relationship. You guys are on the same page, you have talked about the things that are important in life. And let us be very clear, abusers don’t do that. Or when they’re doing the mirroring phase. Oh, you want kids I want kids, but then they hook you they got you. And the rubber meets the road and suddenly I don’t want kids I never wanted kids. I never told you that. What? You know, and meanwhile, you’re sitting here going, but I do you know, but they’ve and then they created this thing where you’re free to leave them. So, then you give in and decide you don’t want kids and then you end up regretting it or vice versa. You know, I don’t want kids Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don’t want kids either. Oh, no, I want kids. Why aren’t we having kids? You need to get pregnant. You need to have a child, or you need to be a dad. You need to you know whatever.
Kris Godinez 20:02
I mean, it’s these are things that need to be discussed and really revisited often to make sure that nobody is lying about it. Okay? So, they, they do that, um, you know, your goals, what do you wish to accomplish in life, and that you are firmly committed to achieving these goals together, there’s a strong sense of trust between you you openly discuss everything The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly, there is no hidden agenda. And unfortunately, abusers that’s all they have is hidden agendas. There’s never anything straightforward. It’s always hidden agendas. And they often gaslight, rewrite history. claim that they didn’t say things when they did, or did say things when they didn’t, you know, in and these are things you need to pay attention to.
So, okay, I’m in a healthy relationship, you keep your own identity within the relationship, and so does your partner. This is vital marriages may have a large piece of the whole, a large piece of the whole pie that identifies who you are. But above all, you are still you as an individual beyond your role in life or roles in life. So, for example, people who have a really hard time retiring are people who identify themselves as their job. No, you’re a human being first and foremost, thank you very much. You know, like, if for some reason I couldn’t do counseling anymore, I would still be a human being and I’d find something else to do, you know, like, I’d find something else to do. Because this is not who I am. It’s an aspect of who I am. But it is not the entire package. And I think people get into relationships, and they lose themselves. And that’s who they are. I am a husband, I am a wife, I am a boyfriend. I am a girlfriend, as opposed to I’m in a relationship, and I still have a wonderful, rich life that I do. You know, and so, there Yeah, it’s like the abuser takes over, the other person takes over the hobbies, takes over the whatever, and you start losing yourself, you start losing yourself, you start losing who you really are, and they lie to us about it. You know, you don’t like that you like this Oh, you don’t want that you want this, when in fact, you do want that And you do like this And do you see where I’m going with that. So it’s important to pay attention to what is going on in the relationship. It’s it’s, it’s insidious, it really is. So it is important to keep your own identity because what makes a rich relationship is the couple goes off and does their own thing, you know, and then we come back together and we talk about is like, Well, what did you do with this interesting? And what did you do? And oh, that’s interesting. And you know, you have your own friends, you have your own things that you do, you come back, you have your own thing that you do. But it’s like you’re able to have a complete rich life. It’s not just the relationship. But abusers will make you give up literally everything and everybody for this relationship, because it’s all about power and control.
Okay, so in a healthy relationship, you spend quality time together, doing the things that are mutually fulfilling, as well as quality time apart, I just talked about that. You encourage each other to grow and change. In other words, you inspire each other to be the better person, red flag, huge red flag if the partner wants to go get therapy. And the other partner says, Don’t you dare, huge red flag, huge red flag because they don’t want that partner to grow. If the partner you know if one part of the party is willing to go, this is a problem. I want to work on myself. And the other partner is terrified that they’re going to change that they’re going to grow that they’re going to figure them out, you know what I’m saying? And they’re like, No, you can’t go to therapy, I don’t want you to go into therapy, and then they sabotage the therapy. That’s a huge red flag guys. In a healthy relationship. You encourage your partner to attain their goals go back to school if that’s what they want, hit a trade school if that’s what they want to go to therapy, if that’s what they want. Join a book club if that’s what they want to expand their horizons to grow to change to you know, you encourage each other that’s a healthy relationship you don’t ever out of fear and that’s what abusers do. No, you can’t do that. No, you can’t go there. No, you can’t learn No, you can’t grow. I don’t want you seeing a therapist. Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. That’s what they do so because they don’t want to lose control and remember, this whole thing is all about power and control.
You and your partner feel safe communicating personal needs and once time is set aside to discuss issues relevant to you as a couple or each of you individually, listening carefully with undivided attention. is essential to real understanding. So, what do abusers do they avoid intimate relationships. They avoid intimate conversations. If there is a discussion, and it devolves into a disagreement, it then devolves into an argument because in the abusers mind, they have every single conversation is to win. It is not to understand and in a healthy relationship, conversations are had to understand not to win. It’s not about winning or losing. It’s about understanding where the other person is coming from and them understanding where you’re coming from so that you can come to a mutually agreeable solution.
Kris Godinez 25:38
But with an abuser, it is always a competition, and it is always a win lose situation, they have to win, you have to lose. And it’s always that way. The partner finds themselves being wrong all the time. They cannot do anything, right. That’s not normal. That is not normal. In a healthy normal relationship. You’re encouraging each other. Yes, you point out when things go wrong, that you find a mutually agreeable solution. So the both of your guys’s needs are getting met. But remember, with an abuser with a narcissist, it is a never-ending black abyss of Mimi me I,I,I more my genitals, it really is, there is no satisfying that they have to be right at all costs. They have to make everybody else wrong. They blame they shame the guilt trip. If any of that is going on in your relationship run, do not walk to the nearest exit, because that’s not normal, healthy adults take responsibility for their own stuff. Yo, my bad, Clean up on aisle 10 I did that. I will take care of it. I did that I am sorry, it will never happen again. And then it never happens again. With an abuser. They never take responsibility. It is always somebody else’s fault. And they blame they shame the guilt trip and they never take responsibility and they find a scapegoat. That is what they do. And normally usually it’s the partner and that’s not normal. That is not normal and a healthy relationship. It is a partnership. It is a partnership. You guys are going to the same destination and you’re supporting each other and loving each other and respecting each other and having fun and having humor and you know all of that stuff in an unhealthy relationship. There is no respect. There is no respect. There is no love. Really, there is power, there’s control, there’s competition. There’s lying, there’s cheating, there’s gaslighting, they’re stealing there’s, you know all of that crap. But there is no respect. Okay, hold on. I know I’m going over I’m sorry. I just want to make sure that I get this.
You share realistic expectations for the relationship, not what you wish or fantasize it could be or should be. Remember that you’re dealing with another extraordinarily complex individual. In addition to yourself, there’s enough to work on without doing unrealistic ideals. And that’s all narcissists are unrealistic ideals, and it’s usually perfectionism. And it’s usually um narcissists are very worried about appearances. They’re very worried about what other people think, Well, what will they think that was my father’s favorite refrain? What will what will they think well, who’s they? Who else they you know, what are you so worried about Who the hell’s they? So, they’re worried about this fantasy of unlimited glamour, whatever. I’m in the appearances. So really quickly, hold on, I said I would contrast and compare. Oh, where is my DSM?
Really quickly, I wanted to compare and contrast borderline personality disorder with narcissism. Now, as the two get closer and closer together, down at the malignant end of the spectrum. All of the personalities disorders start overlapping they just do. And so you will see oftentimes traits of all of them. All of the personality disorders in a person as they have slid down that line. Okay, borderline okay. 663 Hang on. Hmm 663 Okay pervasive pattern of instability in interpersonal relationships, self-image and effects and market impulsivity. Now narcissism also has impulsiveness, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts. One frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating extremes of idealization and devaluation. I love you; I hate you. I love you. I hate you. I love you, I hate you. Now, this may sound similar to narcissism when they do the intermittent positive rewards. But here’s the difference in borderline, it’s not so much intentional with narcissism it absolutely is intentional. It is is done with the intention of Remember how I talked about the oxytocin’s? So when a narcissist does the stonewalling after they’ve done the intense, I need to be with you I need to touch you. I need to have sex with you. I need to edit it. I know that and the oxytocin is you’re going like crazy. Then they Stonewall, what ends up happening is while they’re ignoring you, your body is producing oxytocin’s like nobody’s business because it’s trying to reconnect with the person who just abandoned you.
Kris Godinez 30:32
Let me say that again. You’re going through withdrawals when that person stonewalled you. stonewalling is not normal guys. stonewalling is not normal. No healthy relationship has stonewalling. You will have moments when you say I cannot speak to you right now. Because I need to get my emotions under control before, we continue because I don’t want to see anything that’s going to hurt you. Give me 10 minutes. Let me go take a deep breath in a glass of water. And we’re going to come back and talk about it. That’s not stonewalling. That’s, that’s healthy communication. But in an unhealthy relationship, they Stonewall, and narcissists do it on purpose because they know it physically hurts you. And when they Stonewall it actually lights up the eye, the areas of the brain connected with physical pain, they’re doing it on purpose, because they’re a holes. Just want to be perfectly clear about that. Identity disturbance markedly and persistently unstable self self image or sense of self. So not knowing who you are not knowing what you want, not knowing and it’s like it’s persistent. It doesn’t go away. You don’t have a sense of who you are. And it’s hard to find who you are when you’ve got borderline personality disorder, impulsivity, and it leads to areas that are threatened or potentially self-damaging spending, sex substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating, recurrent suicidal behaviors, gestures, threats or self-mutilating behavior. narcissists generally don’t do that. Mainly because narcissists Oh, but narcissists will use the I’m going to kill myself threat if it looks like you’re leaving to make you feel guilty. So I have seen them do that, but they’re not serious about it, if that makes any sort of sense. Um, affective instability due to marked reactivity of mood mood swings irritability or anxiety lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days. So, mood swings, mood swings, mood swings, inappropriate intense anger or difficulty controlling anger, frequent displays of temper, constant anger or reoccurring physical fights, transient stress related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms. narcissists don’t have that so let me then go to narcissistic personality disorder 669.
Kris Godinez 32:54
Okay, pervasive pattern of grandiosity and fantasy or behavior need for admiration and lack of empathy. That is the main difference. borderlines have a lot of empathy they really do. It is born of trauma for them. It is not born of trauma for a narcissist in any narcissist who tells you that it’s born of trauma is lying if their lips are moving, they are like, Okay, um beginning by early adulthood and President a variety of context is indicated by five or more, has a grandiose sense of self-importance exaggerates achievements and talents and expects to be recognized as superior without commiserating achievements. So, they’ll lie about their, their colleges, they’ll lie about their awards, they’ll lie about having done military service, they’ll lie about you know, their lips are moving their line is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love. So that is the what they think thing that’s the you know, I care about what they think I need to have this. This perfect persona kind of thing believes he or she is special, unique, and special… bunny ears, and can only be understood by or should associate with other special or high-status people or institutions. So, narcissists are the ones who go marching into a place of business and demand a managerial job without having the experience because they think they deserve that title, or they think that they deserve that respect or that whatever. Or that they should only have the best of the best of the best of the best, okay? Requires excessive admiration. So, in other words, like I said, black hole can never be filled with a healthy person, you tell them, hey, you’re doing a really good job. I’m really proud of you and that will take them through the rest of the day and they’re fine, you know, because they check in with their gut and go Yeah, I am doing a good job. Whereas with a narcissist, they hate themselves to the core there is not ever enough outside praise they’re a black hole, they’re a black seething abyss of hatred. That’s really what’s in there. They have a sense of entitlement unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations. So, showing up two hours late to a dinner reservation and demanding to be seated in the best restaurant seat in the house which is ridiculous, and really annoys the staff is interpersonally exploitive takes advantage of others to have to achieve his or her own ends, it’s all about them Me, me, me, I, I, I, more my genitals. lacks empathy is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her shows arrogant haughty attitudes and behaviors.
Now, you can have both you can actually have both borderline and narcissistic personality disorder you can, it can be both. And as I said, as it gets further down the spectrum, all of the personality disorders just start overlapping and flying out as it were. Now with the different types of borderlines. So, you’ve got the the quiet or the waif borderlines those generally will turn on themselves. They’re generally not outward focus, they generally turn on themselves, which is not good but can be worked with. Then you’ve got the hermit, which is kind of like the victim, victim, victim, victim, victim victim, then you’ve got the Queen, which is the control freak and then you’ve got the witch which is just the sadist and enjoys inflicting pain on other people. With the Narcissus you’ve got the communal narcissist which are the ones that use religion of any type it doesn’t matter it can they can use any religion and they’re the cult leader types they’re the ones that are hiding behind the the religious figures robes and claiming that that deity wants everyone to you know, give him their money or whatever or their money or whatever.
Kris Godinez 36:48
Then you’ve got the sorry, my brain is kind of toast overt one’s over are like, look at me, look at me, look at me. I’m so fabulous. You know all these fake achievements, blah, blah, blah. You’ve got the covert ones which kind of matches with the hermit, so they play the victim a lot. You know, you never do anything for me. I do all this stuff for you. I’m a victim, bla bla bla bla bla, look at me. Look at me Look at me, victimhood, victimhood, victimhood, so that they can get the sympathy, that kind of thing that feeds their ego that way. So overt, covert, somatic, the somatic ones are the ones that their bodies have to be perfect, they have to be the perfect weight, hair has to be perfect face has to be perfect. They go through a ridiculous amount of plastic surgery in order to attain that perfection or maintain that perfection. That’s kind of thing. So, contrast and compare two very different personality disorders, some overlapping, but not a lot until it gets down to the malignant end of the spectrum. narcissists don’t change narcissists do not get better borderlines have the chance to if they get the right therapy, if they’re willing to work on the mistaken thoughts, the mistaken beliefs and the trauma that has caused the borderline behavior. If they don’t work on that, they’re not going to get better. They’re gonna go backwards. So yeah, so two different two different personality disorders, narcissists don’t get better borderlines can if it’s caught in the early part of it, or if they’re willing to work on it, if they’re willing to get DBT therapy, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, work on the mistaken thoughts work on the mistaken beliefs work on the behaviors and the thinking, then it can be helped the narcissist never do because the narcissist think they know better than the therapist. And they also think they know better than God. So, you can’t work with somebody like that. So anyway, there is that dear Lord, I have gone way, way over.
So basically, in a healthy relationship, there is respect. There is love there is you know, you’re each other’s cheerleader, you enjoy each other’s company, you, you, you cheer for them, you enjoy their successes, you’re happy for them genuinely, you know, you enjoy spending time together, even if it’s just quality time just sitting around reading a book, you know, and they’re reading one book, you’re reading another, you know, so but there’s a lot of communication. There’s a lot of good communication, there’s never shutting the other partner down. There’s never you don’t feel this way. What y’all do, you know, there’s none of that. I’m going to tell you what you feel, which is what abusers do. There’s none of this disrespect. There’s none of this game playing. It’s there’s never an agenda. You know, in a healthy relationship. There is never an agenda, the agenda is to have a healthy relationship. That’s the agenda. You know, and that includes a lot of communication. So um, yeah, early, early warning signs in a dating situation of an abuser is the power and the control and the over the top love bombing that and wanting to be with you every single second of every day and wanting to move in and wanting to push it really fast and starting to ostracize your family and your friends who do love you, the ones who do love you, you know what I’m saying? Especially coming from a healthy relationship or from a healthy family, and the abuser is trying to push all these people away. That’s a huge red flag. So anyway, I hope that answered those questions. And let’s get to there we go. Let’s get to the questions.
Um, how do narcissistic parents have the audacity to expect their kids to take care of them in their old age, when all they do is insult and rate their kids 24/7 I feel very pressured. So, they’re narcissists. sense of entitlement. That’s one of the clues. So, a narcissist literally thinks that they can treat people like doodoo. And that those very same people that they are treating like doo doo are going to turn around and take care of them in their old age, you are under no such obligation. Let me say this, again, you are under no such obligation. You’re not! Any relationship that gives you fear, obligation, or guilt is a toxic and probably abusive relationship.
Kris Godinez 41:18
So, any relationship whether that’s a parental relationship, a romantic relationship, a boss relationship, a coworker relationship, if you are feeling fear, obligation or guilt, it is a toxic relationship, get the hell out. And you don’t owe them anything. Yeah, they can sit there and pressure you all they want. They don’t control you. They think they do. In reality, they don’t you are under no obligation. So, you don’t have to take care of them in their old age and they have a sense of entitlement. They think that because they gave birth to you, egg donor, sperm donor whatever that they own you they do not they do not you do not need to and you don’t need to be around them. You really don’t. So, get with a good therapist get with a damn good trauma therapist and work through the guilt write a letter to the guilt dear guilt I’m not playing! I don’t owe these bozos anything. If you were not related to these people, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. Seriously, if you would have nothing to do with them, then don’t You don’t owe them Jack diddly squat. You don’t!
Get with a good trauma therapist start working on that. I would start reading the disease to please by Harriet breaker. And I would also start reading self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker. Start working it start getting some separation start getting some detach meant you don’t owe them Jack diddly squat. If people wanted. If people wanted to be treated nicely, then perhaps they should have also treated people nicely and old age homes are filled with them. They’re filled with collapsed narcissists, I talk about this frequently, and you’re under no obligation to care for them, you really are not. If the abusive parents are going to wreck your relationship by you having them in your home, don’t have them in your home. Don’t have them in your home, because it will be a disaster guarantee it, they don’t change. They get worse with age, they get worse with age, they do not change. They do not get better. They don’t have a V eight moment. Oh my god, I should have been nice. They don’t ever have that. They don’t have epiphanies like that. So yeah, get a good trauma therapist. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and you do not need to put up with disrespect or abuse you don’t from anybody. I don’t care who the hell they think they are. Even if they’re your parents, you don’t have to put up with it. So, don’t if you were not related to these people, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. Okay, let’s get to the next question.
Do narcissists cause social isolation in their children slash partners as they don’t have any real friends themselves and are jealous if you do have real friends? Yes, that is part of it. Absolutely. That is absolutely part of it. So, narcissists are unable to maintain friendships of any kind, they blow them up, they blow them up. So, when a child because children are just gregarious, I love kids. It’s like, in talking with some of my clients, you know, they have little kids and they’re like, I’m kind of worried because my little kid is four and they just walk up to total strangers and want to be their friend. I’m like, Well, that’s what kids do, until they learn that not everybody is their friend. So Um, kids are gregarious, they’re outgoing. They’re, you know, they, they want to love everybody they love, and they want to love everybody, and they want to be loved by everybody. And, um, narcissists can’t feel that they get very jealous when they even see kids having a good time. And they start lying to the kid and saying, Well, you’re a loner, you’re you don’t need anybody you want. Why do you want to go over to your friend’s house?
Kris Godinez 45:30
You’re a loner, you don’t need anybody, but we are pack animals, we need friends, we do. We need friends, we need socialization we need you know, community, we need to go out and make friends have friends, be friends, etc. So yes, narcissists, absolutely do the isolation for two reasons. One, it gives better control. Because now nobody is hearing what’s really going on inside the family unit. And two they’re jealous, you’re absolutely correct. It’s like they’re jealous because the kids or the partner are liked and have friends. And oh my god, I’ve heard that so many times from narcissistic abusers, where they try to make the partner wrong for having friends. And it’s like, Hmm, that should be a red flag. Because you know, it’s like, you want your partner to have friends. You want your partner to go out and do their own thing. You want your partner to be happy you do. But with a narcissist, they don’t because they can’t feel it themselves. So how dare somebody else have it? And yes, they do do that with the kids. Because for two reasons. One, they can control them. And two, it’s they’re jealous. You’re absolutely right. It’s like they can’t stand seeing the kids succeed where they failed. Because everything’s a competition, remember? So yeah, that’s good. Good observation. Yeah, you’re absolutely correct.
Do narcissists believe the lies that they tell, but also know that they are telling lies? Yes. They absolutely. So, the thing about narcissists, if you notice, they will lie. And they will repeat the lie over and over, and over and over, because in their mind, if they say it enough times, it makes it true. And yeah, they do know they’re lying. They absolutely, on some level, know that they’re lying. But they repeat it, because they want to repeat it often enough so that they can brainwash the people around them into believing the lie to be true. So, they do that to their target of abuse, they do that to the partners, they do that to their kids, they do that to whoever is the object of their lying, you know, power control. It’s all about power and control. They do know that they’re lying. They do. They do know that if they repeat it often enough, it makes it true for them, suddenly, that lie suddenly becomes truth. It does. It’s so funny. Sometimes I watched what is it called the ID channel where they do all the serial killers and things like that. And you’ll see like, interviews, and you can watch them. It’s fascinating to watch. So, they’re interviewing, like, you know, serial killers, or, you know, murderers, or whatever. And you can see them lie, and you can see that they know that they’re lying, but you can also see that they know that they’re lying, but they’re convincing themselves that it’s the truth. I mean, it’s the most the micro expressions are fascinating. It’s really, I love forensic psychology. I really do. If I were younger, I would join the FBI I really would because that to me is just infinitely fascinating. So um, anyway, where was I? Um, yes, they do know that they’re lying. Yes, they repeat it to convince themselves and to convince their audience and in their head if they say it often enough it becomes true for them you know, even though they know they’re lying. And yes, everything is calculated everything with a narcissist is calculated there is nothing that is not calculated. It is like, what is going to serve my ego. That’s really their end goal for everything. How do I get my ego fed? Okay. Um, so yes, they do know that they’re telling lies, and they know that they’re telling lies, but they convinced themselves that they’re not, which is why it’s so psychotic, which is also why when they get down to the further end of the spectrum, dark triad, narcissist control freak, psychopath, hello. The psychopaths are the ones that can you know, manipulate their blood pressure fool the lie detector thing, a polygraph, fool the polygraph, etc, etc, etc. You know, they’re the ones that can try to control as many of the expressions as they can, but they can’t control the micro expressions. That’s the thing. That’s so cool. So, anyway, yes, they do lie. They do know what they’re lying about. They do repeat it so that they believe it so that everybody else believes it. So yeah, absolutely. Okay.
Um, why are we as children of narc parent are so tempted to tell them what we’re going to do to them to get revenge? Are we trying to save their hind end? Or are we oversharing when we do this? I think it’s a little both. So, the thing of it is, is that narcissistic parents train your kids to overshare.
Kris Godinez 50:21
And narcissists overshare if you ever watch a narcissist, they’ll tell you exactly what they’re going to do. They do. Because they are operating on a level of about a two-year-old, emotionally speaking, and they will tell you exactly how they’re going to hurt you. They will tell you exactly how they’re going to destroy you. You know, I had one say, I feel really sorry for my family and friends. Why? And then they clammed up because they said too much, you know what I’m saying? So yeah, they tell you exactly what they’re going to do, how they’re going to harm the person how they’re going to hurt the person. So um, yeah, they train us to overshare we overshare we’ve been groomed. We’ve been trained, because what do they do? They make us wrong all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time. And as a little kid, it’s not fair. And you know, it’s not fair. And so, you try to explain to them why you said or did whatever you said or did but but, but, I just want to be heard. Well, they’re never going to hear ya ever. And seeking revenge on them is a waste of time. It is the thing about Narcissists is the worst thing, the best thing you can do is ignore them. Leave them to stew in their own petard. Seriously, so this whole idea of you know, I’m going to make them pay. And I’m going to do this. And I’m going to do that don’t do that at first of all, you’re just giving them a heads up that you’re leaving, or you’re doing whatever, you know, and they don’t need to now. Second of all, why waste your energy? It is no longer about them once you’re able to get away from them. It is no longer about them. What are you going to do with the rest of your life? How are you going to make your life better? How are you going to work on your self-esteem? How are you going to leave this world a better place? What are you doing next? Where are you traveling to who you’re going to talk to? You know what I’m saying? It is no longer about them. But we have this overdeveloped sense of revenge that we get from the disordered parent. Either because they’re borderline or because they’re narcissistic, because both of those personality types are very much into tallionic thinking. Tallionic thinking is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, which leaves the entire world blind and with dentures, you know what I’m saying? Not a good thing. Not a good thing. So, the tallionic thinking is a very immature way of living. And it’s a way for the narcissist to make sure that they know what you’re doing at any moment of the day. Okay, you got to stop oversharing like for example,
Kris Godinez 52:58
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had targets of abuse, tell their abuser in the heat of the moment. I’m leaving, I’ve got to go bag at work. I’m out of here, Ba,ba. They just told them their entire plan. So now what’s happening? Now they’re cutting off the money. Now they’re calling their work. Now they’re sabotaging them so that they can’t have their own money. Now they’re smearing them now they’re making their life a living hell. Now it’s really dangerous because they know that you’re one foot out the door, you have got to… listen to me now believe me later, you have got to stop over sharing, it will get you killed. Stop it. Stop it. And that desire to overshare comes from that inner child. So, you want to get an inner child workbook. I don’t care which one some people are saying the Katherine Taylor one is too outdated, find, find a different one, get a different inner child workbook and start working on that inner child so that you are re parenting that little one so you’re listening to the little one, but the little one isn’t spewing what they’re going to do to get away to the abuser. So, this is how we sabotage ourselves is by not working on the inner child the inner child is the one that goes blah either wanting the abuser to wake up you know just wake up Stop treating me like doodoo wake up you know that’s a little kid doing that. Or we’re angry and we got that tallionic thinking going well I’m gonna hurt them no, you can’t hurt somebody who doesn’t actually have emotions. Because they don’t they can fake them they can you know pretend for a small amount of time, but they don’t have emotions the way you and I understand emotions they don’t have regrets. They don’t have remorse. They never lay in bed and go Geez I could have done this differently or I should have said this differently or Gosh How can I make amends to this person? They never do that guys, that’s that’s a fantasy. They do not have those thoughts. They do not. So yes, we share with them How we want to get back at them that we’re basically giving them really important information. And number two, it’s no longer about them once we get away from them, once you’re away from them, the best thing that you can do for yourself and the worst thing you can do to them is absolutely ignore them. Like they don’t exist, because narcissists need attention the way the rest of us need oxygen. Okay, um, I hope that answered the question.
Why don’t they tell you about themselves? Because they know they aren’t like you? Probably a lot of reasons why Well, if they told us who they were in the beginning, none of us would ever have been involved with them seriously. So, if it sounds too good to be true, it’s probably too good to be true. And like I said, if they would just straight up announce I’m a narcissist. Yeah, then you can be like, Okay, check waiter, you know, you can leave, they’re not going to tell you, they’re not going to announce what their their game playing. They’re a predator. Think of it like a predator. You know, a predator doesn’t walk up to the gazelles and go, Hey, guys, I’m here to eat one of you know, the predator sneaks along and figures out which one is the most easy to pounce on. And then they pounce. And then the rest of the team goes out and runs away. And then the poor last Gazelle gets eaten. So yeah, they don’t announce who they are. It’s kind of up to us to know the signs. And it’s just like with the gazelles, if you’ve ever watched the gazelles when a predator is around, it’s like one or two or more will suddenly raise their heads up, because they heard something. And they’re looking and they’re scanning, and then they take off running. So that’s kind of that’s kind of what we have to do. We have to have that not hyper awareness, but we have to have that awareness of what to look out for. All right, my love’s take good care of yourselves. Drink lots of water, talk to you later. Bye.
Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.
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