We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

04-24-2022 Too Dependent When Helping Hurts
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris talks about Co-Dependency and when helping actually hurts.

Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, today’s topic, too dependent when hurting helps. So, a lot of people coming out of abusive relationships have codependency. And they come from families that groomed them to be codependent. So, let’s talk about that what is going on. So, when you’re in a family of origin, where one, sometimes both parents are completely non compos mentis, the lights are on the engines running and nobody’s home, okay? So, they’re addicted, they’re disordered, they’re mentally ill, they’re, you know, whatever. And so they may be there physically, or they may not be there physically, you know, so they’re neglectful or they are abusive, you know, or they’re addicted. And they’re just not functioning like a parent.

So what the kids end up doing is in disordered families, you get second mom, second dad. So, the older kids turn into the second set of parents, you know, and that happened in my family, my oldest sister Terry, she’s my second mom, you betcha. You know, she basically was the one that we turn to when my dad was Going Ape, bananas, you know. So I can’t swear, you know that. So just use your imagination on that one. Um, so second, mom, second dad. And they end up being responsible, not only for the littler ones, you know, having to take care of younger siblings, etc, they oftentimes end up having to take care of the parents, as in mom, or dad, whoever the addict is, will come home completely blasted out of their mind, they’ll end up helping them into their bed or, you know, picking him up off the bathroom floor or calling an ambulance or, you know, whatever. And that’s horrible. That’s kids should not have that responsibility. A child should not be forced to be watching younger children until they’re old enough to deal with whatever might happen. So, like teenage years, I think would be okay, as long as they know how to dial 911. And they’re okay with it, you know, but it’s like these, these abusive parents, I what I see them do is they abdicate responsibility. Well, I don’t have the time, I don’t want you know, I don’t want to have to watch them, you bath them, you do this, you take them for a walk you blah, blah, blah. And I’m sitting here going, you’re the one who had the kids. Douche, you know what I’m saying. So, they push off the responsibility parenting onto the younger kids. And what that does, is that then gives us codependency because now we have this huge amount of responsibility. We have been parentifide at a very, very, very, young age. And that’s not okay. And even like I said, even if you’re not having to look after the younger siblings, you may be having to take care of the parents, you know, get them up on time for work, make sure that they’re, you know, awake, make sure that they’re alive, make sure you know, whatever.

Kris Godinez  04:21

Some of the stories, some of the kids, the kids, older kids, they’re adults. Now adult children of these narcissists would tell me these stories of literally going into a bar when they’re like six years old, because the mom sent them in there to get dad and make him feel guilty. And I’m like, what parent does that, you know, a little six-year-old and their nightgown going into a bar to drag dad home, you know? So that gives this kid this very much sense of, it’s my job. It’s my job to make sure the family is okay. It’s my job to make sure dad or Mom is okay. It’s my job to make sure that all of the siblings are okay. That’s not fair. And these narcissists, these abusers have children. With that in mind, they do. They have children with the idea of here’s your job, here’s what you’re gonna do for me, because that’s how they think. What have you done for me lately? Whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, that’s who they are. That’s what they do. So these kids are born with a job in mind already, either, you know, becoming the second parent and taking care of them and everybody else.

Which is also why when they get older, they have that, that sense of entitlement, just that sense of, I’m older, and you’re gonna take me in and you’re gonna take care of me and you’re gonna Baba Baba, no, no, all I got to do is die and pay taxes. biatch. So you know what I’m saying. So they do that, because they’ve groomed us to feel guilty. And they’ve groomed us to feel Uber responsible, like Uber responsible, which is stupid, because it’s not a kid’s job to be responsible for adults. That’s why you have parents supposedly.

So anyway. So, we come out of a family like that. Now, if we didn’t take care of the younger siblings, or wake the parent up on time to go to work or whatever, what would happen, they would punish us. They would punish us, they would, you know, you’re a terrible kid. And you made me late for work. You, you, you, you, you guns, right. So then as we grow up, we get this crazy idea that literally everything in the world is our fault. And that we have to make sure everybody’s okay. And if everybody is okay, then we’re okay. Because if they’re not, okay, I’m not okay. That’s when we start telling ourselves as kids, right? Because remember, kids magic thinking, magic thinking. And we don’t have any frame of reference. We don’t have, you know, a sane adults necessarily going, going, you know, this is not your job, hey, this isn’t normal, hey, you know, that kind of thing. So that becomes our normal, okay?

So then we get out of that relationship, we get into an abusive relationship, what ends up happening, they start abdicating they start making sure that they’re not doing any of the housework, they’re making sure that they’re not working. In some cases, they’re making sure that they’re not doing any of the child rearing any of the child caring. I actually, recently, I had an abuser tell the target of abuse that he didn’t think it was right that he had to babysit their child. You’re watching your own kid douche. You know what I’m saying? So yeah, that’s that’s their attitude. They don’t they don’t do it. Of course, it’s a divorce thing. So, um, they don’t view their own children as their responsibility. They see it as an onus. How dare you make me babysit my own child? No, you’re watching your own kid, you idiot. You know what I’m saying? And then what does that give the kid, that kid, that kid gets the very distinct idea that they’re an onus that they’re a burden, that they’re not wanted that you know, and then that sets up all of the self-esteem stuff.

Kris Godinez  08:27

Oh, things that make me angry anyway.

So, all right. So, we come out of the family of origin that does the whole you’re responsible. You’re you need to wake me up, you need to take care of me, you, you, you, you, you. They the narcissist and especially if you throw addiction on top of that will make the kid feel guilty. Well, how dare you be young? I’ve heard them say that too. How dare you be happy? How dare you have friends? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you because they’re bitter. And they’re angry. And they really don’t want their kids to have friends because they want to isolate them. They’re angry that they are, you know, younger than they are and that they’re in the prime of their life and enjoying life, and they try to do everything they can to make sure that the kid doesn’t have a normal childhood. It is intentional. Let’s just be clear about that. No sane parent would turn younger children over to a six-year-old. Yes, I have seen that. No sane parent would make a 10-year-old responsible for an older brother. That has got some sort of mental health issue. Yes, I’ve seen that too. You know what I’m saying? It’s like you don’t do that to your kids. They don’t have the coping skills. They don’t have the cognitive ability to understand. This is not you know what I’m saying? This is not their responsibility. Do you see where I’m going with that? And if God forbid if something happened to one of those kids, that would destroy that child for the rest of their lives! How dare these parents do that? How dare they put them in that kind of jeopardy? It just oh god it just slap therapy for all of them seriously. So okay. makes me angry really does because then you see the pain it causes later on. You see the pain that it causes in the child that was forced to be parentified. You see the trauma you see the what if you see the whole thing that goes on in their minds, trying to stay safe from these abdicating parents.

So okay, so we get out of the family of origin. Now we’re into the abusive relationship they’ve abdicated, we take over and people pleasing, people pleasing, people pleasing, people do this part of codependency. So we people please because we did that when we were younger, when we were little to stay safe does not get punished to not get yelled at to not get screamed at, you know, you know, your your mommy’s good little girl if you go get Daddy out of the bar. You know? So, people please and we don’t know the word no. Okay, so then we go to where was I thinking? We go to get out of that relationship. Okay, so we’re leaving the abusive relationship. But we still have the codependency. And what we do is if they’re not okay, I’m not okay. And so we put ourselves way on the backburner, like way on the backburner, like so far on the backburner that self-care doesn’t even pop into our minds. Like, seriously. So, okay. So we’re far, far on the backburner. We’re not taking care of ourselves. And we have this sense of doom, or we have this sense of, it’s not going to be okay, if I can’t fix it, or them, or him or her. If I can’t fix it, then I’m not a good person, or I have no worth if I can’t be fixing things. Does that make sense? So our self-liking our self-esteem is based on they have to be okay, in order for me to be okay. And that’s not self-esteem. That’s other esteem.

Kris Godinez  12:36

So what you’re going to have to do, and this is going to be very, you’re gonna have to be diligent about it. And it’s going to be very upsetting in the beginning. Other people, listen to me now, believe me later. Other people are responsible for their own emotions, for their own happiness for their own responsibilities, okay? And that’s something we’ve never learned. So, when we start saying, No, it freaks us out. And it freaks us out because abusers don’t like the word no, and you’re gonna find out really quickly, who is healthy for you and who is unhealthy for you. If you say no to somebody who’s healthy, let’s let’s just be clear. If you say no to somebody who’s healthy, they are able to go Oh, okay. You know, just thought I’d ask and then go on about their business and ask somebody else or figure out a different way. If you say no to somebody who is a narcissist, or an abuser or an addict or whatever, they will pitch the biggest temper tantrum you have ever seen in your life. And they try to intimidate. And they try to make you give in. That’s their whole job is to make you give in because that’s what abusers do. And that’s what narcissists, in particular, is they can make you do what they want, they’ve won.

Okay, so oftentimes going back to the narcissist that refuse to work, the narcissist that refuse to clean the house, they literally look at housework and childcare, as it’s beneath them. Oh, that’s, I’ve heard one say, oh, that’s women’s work. I’m sorry, what? You know, they do things like that. Or oh, cleaning the house is beneath me. That’s, that’s for a maid. That’s, you know, and yeah, they’re making their spouse do all of it. And don’t ever pitch in and don’t ever help and don’t ever ask and don’t ever whatever. And so, they’ve got this sense of entitlement. So, when we come out of all of this, no, is going to be your best defense and, and the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, and the inner child workbook, any of the Inner Child workbooks. Now people are telling me that the Katherine Taylor one is a little too out of date, because she’s asking for like magazine pictures and things like that. So if the inner child one by Katherine Taylor is out of date, find another one. I don’t care which one just one that resonates with you. So, you can start working on the inner child stuff, because this is the root of codependency, who in your childhood, told you in either overtly or covertly either, you know, through words or through behaviors that no was not an okay word with them that you couldn’t say no, that you couldn’t not watch the younger kids that you couldn’t, you know, not have to take care of the parent, do you see where I’m going with that? Who did that? Who gave you that message that it was not okay? To put yourself first.

Kris Godinez  15:53

So the narcissist always wants to be put first the addict always wants to be put first. So addiction very much mimics narcissism very much you get them clean and sober, then you’ll see whether it’s a personality disorder, whether it was the drugs talking or the alcohol, whatever. So when they are in the throes of their addiction, they’re narcissistic, like nobody’s business, narcissists, obviously, they think their God, and they have absolutely no problem having children and making the children do the work around the house, or making the children you know, get a job and then take all their money, they do that too. You know, that kind of thing. So no, is going to be your friend working on the self-esteem working on the inner child work. Write a letter who taught you Who taught you that you couldn’t come first? Who taught you that? Which person said no, you’ve got to watch the younger kids know you can’t take care of yourself? No, you have to take care of me. No, you have to watch me in my old age. No, you have to Baba Baba, do you see where I’m going with that. So you’re gonna write and burn a letter to them, you’re going to write and burn. And this one is going to be specific though this one is going to be Dear Mom, dear dad, dear abuser, dear grandparents, dear whoever it was. And you’re going to nail them for all of the times they made you watch the younger kids, or all of the times that you had to make sure that they were okay after all night Bender, or make sure that they got up for work on time or whatever, or you know, you had to cook for the family or whatever. So, um, what you’re going to do is you’re going to write specifically, and you’re going to name every single time they did that, and then you’re going to refute them rebuke them, you’re going to be like, guess what, I get to put my full self, first you know why? Because I say so. I get to put myself first because I say so. It wasn’t okay to make me watch those younger kids. It wasn’t okay for me to be your caregiver when I was 12, or whatever. Do you see where I’m going with that? get really specific at the end of the letter, you’re gonna make a commitment to yourself, guess what mom and dad, I am putting myself first I am going to do self-care, I am doing self-care in this letter, right here, right now I refuse you, I rebuke you, you do not get to live in my head, rent free, one more second, get the hell out. Go pound sand, I put myself first. Now that does not mean that you’re going to ignore your children, that does not mean that you’re not going to care for your spouse. What that means is, is you’re going to be very diligent about is this person using you or not.

So, helping becomes hurting. When we’re giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, give and give and give and then keel over because there’s no replenishing the pot. And abusers don’t ever allow us to replenish the pot, they just don’t. And they will demand that we keep giving and keep giving and keep giving and keep giving. And then of course they’re doing all of their other crazy stuff like not allowing us to sleep, not giving us enough food, not you know, letting us have friends, not letting us go to school, not letting us you know, fill in the blank. And so we never get replenished. And so we get used to running on fumes. And I mean fumes. I mean, there’s nothing in there. It’s empty, it’s gone. So we get used to that. And that becomes our normal and then if we start giving to ourselves, it feels selfish, and it’s not let’s be clear, it is not. But every single time I have seen an adult child of a narcissist come out of that fog, the fear, the obligation, the guilt and start taking care of themselves… They feel incredibly selfish, because the abusers usually tell them that. How dare you How dare you not do what I want you to do. How dare you go get your hair done or get your nails done or meditate or you know, whatever it is you’re doing to help yourself? How dare you not be spending every waking moment with me? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? And they make us wrong for it. And they tell us that we’re selfish. Absolutely. They tell us that we’re selfish. Anytime that we’ve ever done anything that was just for us. How many times have you guys gone and bought food for yourself? Or, you know, you got a job, your first job and you went and bought something nice for yourself? And what did the narcissist do? Well, where’s mine? Why didn’t you get me something? Well, I’m the reason you have the job.

Kris Godinez  20:38

And then you’re selfish, you’re selfish, you’re selfish. They’re projecting. They are projecting you are not selfish when you are doing self-care. And self-care is not just massages and hot baths. Self-Care is putting yourself on the burner, and saying no, no. And I mean it. That’s my favorite saying, No. And I mean it when I’m dealing with somebody who’s being really pushy, like, I don’t know, car salesman, you know, you can be like, stop and I mean it. Get your manager out here. I’m gonna be a Karen right now get your manager out here. Stop it. I mean it. But I’m talking about pushy people that are doing narcissistic things, you know, like, they’re not taking no, like, No, I’m not going to put myself out. No, I’m not going to, you know, whatever. Does that make sense?

So, codependency is when we help to the point where we’re keeling over and codependency is also that sense of, I’m a bad person, if I don’t help literally everybody and their dog. Like, I’ve got to save everybody. Like if everybody’s not okay, I’m not okay, that’s codependency. And so the way to combat that is self-esteem, like nobody’s business. When I tell you guys, it really boils down to boundaries and self-esteem, and inner child work. Okay, three things, boundaries, self-esteem and inner child work. I’m not kidding, because everything that happened to us as a kid informs what we do as an adult. Does that make sense? So, for example, as an adult, an adult child of a narcissist will start doing self-care, like I said, and they’ll feel guilty, and they’ll self-sabotage. And they’ll self-punish, because they don’t want the abuser to do it to them. So, it’s like the abuser is still living in their head. And why? Because the inner child is the one that’s going, Nope, nope, no, we can’t do that. We can’t do that. We can’t take care of ourselves. We can’t give something nice for ourselves. Don’t they’ll come unglued, we gotta get something for them. Stop, stop. Stop it. I mean it. No. And I mean it. So, it’s really working on the inner child. How old were you when they made you not take care of yourself? How old were you when they made sure you didn’t have friends? How old were you when they made you take care of the younger kids? How old were you when they sent you into the bar to go get Mom or Dad? Do you see where I’m going with that? How old were you when they insisted that you be their personal servant. So, write it out. Get it out of your head, get it onto paper, trot it out to the barbecue at the very last you take your power back and you make a promise to yourself. Guess what, guys? I am taking care of myself. I am doing self-care. And this is the start of it. So, bleep the bleep bleep bleep out of the bleeping BLEEP you ahole Go pound sand, have a nice life. Trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once. Burn it, let it go. And then stick to that commitment. Start small. Start small, once a week, do something just for you. Meditation is fabulous. You know, you could do the hot bubble bath you can oh it’s gonna be like in the hundreds in Phoenix. I wouldn’t recommend it. But you know what I’m saying? So, um, you do things nice for you. You go have that lunch at that place that you’ve always wanted to eat at. You know, you go do the walks around the neighborhood, you go work out you take care of your body. You tell yourself nice things. You do the positive affirmations; you refute and rebuke the inner critic and not allow it to continue to terrorize you. Because we do not negotiate with terrorists. Thank you for playing inner critic Have a nice life. And by that I mean go pound sand. You don’t know You don’t get to come in. Ah, you’re a liar. Sod off. Buh bye. And you don’t let it in and you replace it immediately. With the polar opposite, the positive polar opposite. So when we start doing things for ourselves, we are going to feel guilty. And you’re going to have to write a letter to the guilt. Dear guilt bleep the Bleep Bleep Bleep Bleep Bleep you who gave me this guilt? Oh, hi, I’m Bertha or whoever. And you hand it back to that family member that teacher, that professor, that whoever the narcissist was, that gave you the guilt that made you feel guilty for Trying to take care of yourself in a really dysfunctional screwed up situation. Does that make sense? So you write a letter to the guilt, and you send it on its way and anytime the guilt pops up now you’re not going to resist it.

So remember, resisting a thought is like, oh, pink elephant, taking a dump in the corner of the living room, oh my god, pink elephant, I don’t wanna think about it. I don’t wanna think about, I don’t want to think… what am I doing the whole time, I’m thinking about the pink elephant. So, what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna go I see you pink elephant, you’re taking a dump, guess what, I’m gonna deal with you by doing self-care and working on self-esteem and doing the inner child workbook, have a nice life. Go pound sand, goodbye. So, you acknowledge it, I hear you guilt, I see you guilt, I also recognize that you’re not mine. I also recognize you came from mom, dad, brother, whoever, and you send it back to them. You can even do some guided imagery with this. And this can be very helpful. So you go somewhere amazingly safe in your head, like somewhere really safe, like a beach, or the mountains, or a meadow, or a beanbag or your own bedroom, or wherever you feel safe, you can be completely imaginary, just up here. So, you go to that safe place. And you imagine your abuser, standing there, unable to get to you, unable to harm you, unable to do anything, you know, surround them with angels, do whatever you need to, but they’re not able to get to you. Okay, you’re gonna open up a suitcase, and you’re gonna dump all the guilt into the suitcase. And then you’re going to close the suitcase, and you’re going to walk over and you’re going to shove it into their chest, and make them take it back. And then you’re gonna banish them.

Kris Godinez  26:40

I always liked that, that always made me feel really good. It was like, ah, bye bye now. But do you see where I’m going with that. So that’s another way to process it is if writing it out doesn’t work for you. Because not everybody is a writer. And, and I want to be very clear, several of my clients recently have told me and my mom did this to me, too, that their abusers read their journals. So if journaling is too scary, because it’s too triggering, because the abuser, read your journals, then you can do imagining things, you can say things to them in your imagination, just like you would write them out. And so remember, our amygdala is three O’s stupid, it can’t tell the difference between imagining it, and actually doing it or writing it out, it still feels to the amygdala, like we’ve done something. So as long as you put that period on that, that episode, so like, you fill it up, you fill up the luggage with the guilt, you literally shove it into their chest, so they have to take it, and then you banish them. And you watch them go, you know, they’re being marched off by the angels, and they’re not allowed to come anywhere near you, and the guilt stays with them. And that’s a really great thing to do. It’s really empowering to be able to do guided imagery or to do imagining, you know, talking to them or handing it back to them. To just talk to them honestly doesn’t do it. It’s like I said, you got to put the period on it when you’re doing the guided imagery kind of thing. And the period is no uncertain terms. The Suitcase gets shoved back to them, it’s theirs, it cannot come back to you. And then they’re marched off. So, so there is that, um, okay. So you can do guided imagery, you can write it out self-esteem workbook, like a boss. Why?

Because people who have got good self-esteem, take care of themselves, because they recognize their own worth. There is a section in there where he talks about your value your worth, do you understand that you have value and worth? Go through it slowly? So it drives me crazy when clients are like, oh, yeah, I read that book. And they’ve been seeing me for two weeks. And I’m like, I’m okay. Did you do all the exercises? Well, no. Okay, no, no, no, you got to do the exercises. You’ve got to do the exercises. Take your time. These books are not to be blasted through this is not like, how do I explain this? This is not like college where you had to blast through the chapters so that you could get through and get the grade, right? This is you learning about you! This should be a gourmet meal. You don’t just shove gourmet meals down your throat as quick as you can. Yeah, don’t you take your time so that you can taste every single spice every single flavor, every single note of that food, right? So, it’s the same thing with self-esteem. I want you to taste every single flavor, every single spice, everything that is amazing about you, I want you to get it. I want you to really absorb it. I want you to really, really take it in. Take your time. And I think the reason why we don’t is because our abusers are always rushing us Have you noticed that are up you users are always Hurry up, get your clothes on, hurry up, get your shoes on, hurry up, get out of the door. Hurry up. We got to go somewhere. Hurry up.

Kris Godinez  30:07

You know, as John, he’ll tell you, it’s like the one thing more than anything in the world that I will just dig my heels in, is if I’m rushed in the morning, I’ll be like, oh, oh, oh, oh, hell no. I’m gonna sit here. I’m a drink my coffee. I’ma gonna enjoy the sunrise. Don’t you rush me! Anybody, wherever you are. John doesn’t rush me. But, you know, seriously, if like, something’s happening, and I’m getting rushed. I’m like, Ah, no, you will have to wait. Have a nice life. So, um, you know what I’m saying? So, and that was a trigger for me being rushed, constantly being rushed, constantly being told, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. And that was my dad. And he was an abuser. So, um, so that I think is where we get into the bad habit of not taking our time with these books of not really enjoying it, really enjoying it. I mean, a lot of people are like, Oh, this is triggering. And I’m like, Yes, I know. But think of how amazing this is that you see this stuff now. And that you know what to do with it. And now that you know when you’ve got your list of deal breakers going you won’t ever have to put up with another one of these Jack wagons ever again. That’s awesome. You know? So you always want to reframe it because our minds because the internal critic are always gonna go to the negative so you want to try to find the reframe. And this is really you discovering who you are. And that is wonderful. That’s what it’s all about is who are you What do you want? What makes you happy? What do you want to be doing you know, that’s that’s what it’s really all about. So when you’re doing these books, whether it’s C PTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, inner child workbook, any of the inner child workbooks, I don’t care which one just grab one and do it. Okay, inner child workbook, the disease to please by Harriet breaker or the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, go, slow, absorb this, let it sink in, really play with it, take your time, you are worthy of your own time. You were worthy of your own love, and you’re worthy of your own attention. And this is a part of self-care. I know! Who’da thought. So that’s what I want you to do is go slow. Just really, really take your time really absorb it, really work through it really discover, really discover because that is going to help you be bulletproof, as far as abusers are concerned because you know yourself inside out. You know when you see one of those and you know what to do with them, so, yep. All right. I think we will take questions because I’ve been blathering on long enough Johnny, do we have some? All right, what are we gonna find him? Oh, he’s got to find them. So while he’s okay, here we go. All right. Yes. Yes.

Can a narc parent be codependent herself and use the child to parent her. My late narc mother never parented but acted like a child herself and needed us children to do her stuff.

Kris Godinez  33:16

Okay, that’s not codependent, that’s abusive. So, narcissists don’t take responsibility for anything ever. They don’t take responsibility for being a parent. They don’t take responsibility for their own actions. They don’t and they do they turn the children into their caregivers. So I hope you guys heard the question. The question was can a narc parents say that again? Can a narc term be codependent? No. Not really. Okay. Can a narc parent be codependent herself and use the children to parent.

Kris Godinez  33:55

Okay, so no because the narc parent is using the kids to parent them. Because they’re narcissists. It is a part of being a narcissist. It is abdicating responsibility. If you look at the DSM five, that’s one of the main criteria. Oh my goodness sitting in a car. That’s one of the main criteria is that they don’t take responsibility. They have a sense of entitlement. I mean, what sane person wants a child to raise them? I mean, I love having children to play with Yes. But you know, you don’t want a child to raise you because the kid is looking to you for how to be a person, you know. So no, that’s not codependency that’s abuse. That’s neglect. That’s a very immature narcissist. That doesn’t want responsibility that makes the kid responsible for everything. And that messes us up like nobody’s business. So, if that was the case, get with a good trauma therapist. Oh, this is the cool thing. So yesterday we were talking at the meet and greet. And one of the one of the people there had had Neurofeedback and she was just raving about it. So, remember Bessel van der Kolk is He’s big on neurofeedback. So, if you’ve had trauma, the two best modalities, the two best EMDR Neurofeedback and of course, you know, EFT is good. CBT is good, but it’s talk therapy. So if the talk therapy is not working, try EMDR try neurofeedback, she had great results with it. So, you know and read Bessel Vander Kolk book, the body keeps score. Fantastic book. He’s got an institute in Massachusetts that’s doing the the neurofeedback, so, check into it, check into it. I love Bessel Vander Kolk I think he’s awesome. So he’s, he’s a brave man and I like him. So anyway, there that is okay. Next question. All right, let me find it. Oh, sorry. That’s okay.

Kris Godinez  35:48

Okay, we’re on a hold hold on. So this is about codependency they’re asking is this codependent they’re saying? What a person who asked to constantly be with a girlfriend or boyfriend and refuses to be alone for a year and I told my friend to take some time off and figure out what they want. So basically, they’re asking is that can be a part of codependency because the need for well, but it could also be narcissism, because narcissists need to be constantly reassured. But the inability to be alone Yeah, that would be codependent. That would be codependent because they need somebody there other esteem, other esteem other, other other esteem. So um, yeah, it could be a part of codependency, if they’re terrified of being alone. It’s codependency because you’re used to taking care of somebody else or getting some, you know, reassurance from somebody else. It could also be narcissism. So again, without the person in front of me, I couldn’t tell you. But yeah, that could be a part of codependency it absolutely could because a lot of people who are codependent find it very difficult to be alone. So, for example, when I’m working with clients, and I tell them, Okay, you need to be single for the next year to work on yourself, you do not need your picker is broken, stop, stop. Your picker is broken. Let’s build your self-esteem, build your boundaries, build your list of deal breakers, work on the inner child, and then you can start dating. And usually they come unglued. They’re like, what? I can’t be alone. I can’t, I can’t know this, this is terrible. And they really look at it like it’s the end of the world. And why? Well, when we come out of abusive relationships, what have we got going on up here? It’s the inner critic, and the inner critic is a biatch. And it’s mean, and it’s vicious. And it’s nasty. And it’s everything your abuser ever spewed at you that just keeps getting thrown back at you weird random times during the day. So, it is terrifying to be alone it is. And that is what is necessary to get you where you need to go. So that you fix your picker, inner child is not running the show inner child is not the one looking outside and going, oh, somebody who reminds me of my abuser, I know if I can make them love me, I prove mom and dad wrong. You don’t want that that’s a recipe for disaster. So, you need to be able to spend time alone with yourself that is a part of maturing. And that is a part of self-care. And that is a part of self-esteem. It’s part of self-love. Because think of it this way. You come into this world alone, you go out of this world alone. And in the meantime, guess who you’re with 100% of the time, yourself. So, you want to start loving you, liking you, respecting you. Do you see where I’m going with that? And it’s hard to do that when you’re distracting yourself with another person. And that’s often what it is. It’s like I’ve often had clients go but,, but, but and obviously their inner child talking. But, but, but I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want to think about this. I don’t want to work on this. Well, then why are you here? Because that’s what we’re doing. You know. So, it’s like they say they want this but they’re doing that, you know, and you got to call them out on it. And generally, it’s a distraction. So, wanting to be with somebody is a way to not think because you’re focused outward, you’re focused on somebody else. You’re not getting introspective; you’re not looking at yourself you’re not working on you. So, you want to avoid that. So yeah. Okay, next question.

Okay, are narcs parasites? Yes, it seems that they just take and take and do so at the cost of their target. They abuse whole systems and often try to get things for free for normal people have to pay for those things.

Kris Godinez  39:37

Yes, are narcs. parasites? Absolutely. If they can screw somebody out of something and get something for free and screw somebody in the process. That is their best day ever. They absolutely do not have any moral compass. They absolutely do not understand that there are other people out there, people to them have no more meaning I don’t have my pen, but I do have a cup have no more meaning than this cup. Seriously, we are objects to be used to them. They do not understand that we are sentient beings that have emotions and feelings. Because narcissists do not feel the way we do they do not process emotions the way we do. They may have some anger usually emotion, but as far as empathy and concern and care for another living creature, whether that’s a human or a dog or a cat or whatever, they don’t have it. So yes, they are parasites. They absolutely, yeah, that’s a good way to put it because they all they do is look to see who they can use, who can I use. And remember, when they’re further down the line, they become the dark triad. So, you’ve got the narcissism with the psychopath with the Machiavellian and those are the ones the antisocial ones, are the ones that will flaunt the law, screw over as many people as much as they possibly can. You know, they don’t care. They don’t care the damage that they’re doing. They just plain old. Don’t care. Okay, next question.

Excuse me? How do I deal with the guilt about things possibly going wrong at work when I go on vacation? So they’re really worried?

Kris Godinez  41:20

Okay, so here’s the thing, this is a control issue. This is we all have this. We all have this. So how do we deal with the guilt about things going wrong when I go on vacation unless you are the owner of that business? It not your problem. It not your problem! Literally not your problem. If things go wrong when you go on vacation? Well, that’s the company’s problem. That is not your problem. This country is so messed up when it comes to corporations and vacations and sick pay and sick leave and everything else. If you noticed, a lot of these corporations are run by say with me narcissists, not just narcissists, but dark triads. And so their whole thing is as they try to make their workers feel guilty for taking vacation that is owed to them. I have one client, dear Lord that has something like 109 weeks of vacation or something, or 100 and something ridiculous amount of hours, not under nine weeks. That’d be like two years. But you know what I’m saying? It’s like they had a ridiculous amount of hours of vacation. And every time they put in for it…well…we really need you right now. Oh, well, you know, you can next next month, I promise next month, and I finally said you need to look for another job because this is gonna kill you. You cannot be expected to work. Ridiculous overtime. And no vacations. years on end. That’s a good way to drop dead. No, don’t do it. So yeah, I’m sorry. What was the original question? It’s talking asking about feeling feeling guilty? Should people should take some vacation as they go along, like a day or two, like mental health days

Kris Godinez  43:04

Yes. So just saving it. All right, John, was just saying that you should take vacation as you go on mental health days, you know, one day, a month or two days a month, you know, whatever, you take care of yourself. Because it’s like, think of it this way. It’s like, you’re married, you have kids, and you’re working a 60/70 hour, sometimes 80 hour, a week job, and you’re not getting any vacation, and your boss is pushing you off pushing you off, because you know, you’re gonna keel over. And you’re not going to be any use to anybody. So, any job, any boss, any romantic relationship, any family that makes you feel fearful, obligated or guilty, is toxic. You want to take a look at that job, you really do. And you may want to start looking for another one. If they’re making you feel guilty for taking time off, screw them. Seriously, that time is yours, that time is yours, you’ve earned it. And legally, they cannot keep you from it. Y’all may want to go talk to HR about that. Or you may want to go talk to an attorney about that. So, if they’re not allowing you to take vacation, or if they’re guilt tripping you, or if they’re insisting that you keep your phone on when you’re on vacation, screw that noise, you’re on vacation. So, like for example, I will keep my phone on just because of the nature of my business for emergencies. And I let all my clients know this, it better be an emergency and somebody had better be bleeding because I’m in Hawaii, you know what I’m saying? So, but with jobs that are not mental health, medical, etc. You should be able to go on vacation, turn your phone off and be left the hell alone to go. You know, lay on the beach and watch the sunset and enjoy your family. And if they’re not doing that, that’s harassment. So, you may want to be talking to an attorney If they’re making you feel guilty for this, if you are feeling guilty about leaving the job and worried about what’s going to happen unless you own that business, don’t! It’s not your business, you’re on vacation. The boss needs to figure out who’s gonna run your part of the job while you’re on vacation. That’s what good bosses do. See where I’m going with that. Okay, next question. Excuse me?

How does one deal with emotional eating and binging on foods and sweets as a source of comfort? How do we stop?

Kris Godinez  45:36

Okay, so you’re definitely want to get with a trauma therapist. So, a lot of us have had that issue. So when we’ve got parents that are emotionally neglectful, and emotionally abusive, we find comfort where we can find it. And a lot of times, that’s food. Sometimes it’s alcohol. Sometimes it’s drugs, sometimes it’s sex, sometimes it’s exercise, but we tend to gravitate towards food for comfort. So, what you’re going to have to start doing is keep a food journal. That’s what helped me. What am I eating? Why am I eating? Am I putting food in my mouth because I’m actually hungry? Or am I putting food in my mouth because I’m bored. Or I’m angry, or I’m upset, or I’m sad, or I’m depressed. If for any other reason than I’m hungry, walk away, go grab some water, go journal, go take care of yourself. Take a hot bath. You know, it’s do things to take care of you. We often do that, we often turn to food for comfort. So you’re gonna have to find something else to substitute that’s not harmful to you. hot bubble bath, going for a walk, drinking some water playing with the dog. Do you see where I’m going with that? Find something to substitute, but most importantly, figure out what the emotion is. What are you avoiding? What are you avoiding? Or what are you…what are you wanting to eat away? What are you? Is it sadness? Is it anger? Is it hurt? Is it whatever, get with a good trauma therapist really seriously get with a good trauma therapist and start working on this. Because a lot of us have that we really do when we come out of these relationships. We seek out comfort where we can get it. So there that is all right. Yes. Next question.

My ex was caught cheating. And even after showing them solid proof, they denied it and denied and denied and denied and flip the script and said I made them do it. Okay.

Kris Godinez  47:29

Again, narcissists don’t ever take responsibility for anything. So the Narcissist was caught cheating. They denied and denied and denied and then flipped the script and said, Oh, you made me. Okay. You can’t make another person do a damn thing. You literally cannot, you know. So that’s that’s the hue and cry of Narcissist is Oh, you made me cheat. You made me hit you. You made me yell at you, you you you you you gun. So anytime they flip the script, and they start doing the you, you, you, you, you guns walk away, gray rock walk away. Cheating is a choice. Cheating is a choice. So, if you cheat on somebody, it’s a choice. They are making a choice. They are choosing to cheat. Nobody put a gun to their head and said have sex with that person or we’ll kill you. They did it on their own. So, them saying it’s you. Sorry, nope. They’re escaping responsibility again. And frankly, when somebody does that, that’s your cue to leave. Because that’s a disrespect and that should be one of your deal breakers. No lying, no cheating, no stealing, no rewriting history. No gaslighting, no name calling, no flipping the script, you know, none of that. So that’s a deal breaker run, do not walk to the nearest exit. That’s all I gotta say about that. Okay, next one.

Do people just no more cheating its more cheating, more cheating? Do people with borderline personality disorder cheat? And if so why do they do it?

Kris Godinez  49:01

Oh, good God,they can oftentimes what you will find is it’s a comorbid situation. So, they may be borderline with narcissist. And yes, that can occur. So, it’s again supplying getting supply getting sent to make sure that they’re not abandoned, getting making sure that they’re not left alone, etc. And oftentimes, that’s that’s a comorbid situation. Not all the time, but oftentimes, that’s that’s what I see. Okay, next one.

I have a friend who I really love, but she has all the traits of BPD. Okay, how do I convince her to go get help?

Kris Godinez  49:38

Okay, you have a friend that you really love. She has all the traits of BPD How do you convince her to go get help? Okay. You don’t. What you can do is when things go wrong in her life, you could suggest, hey, it might help if you went and talk to somebody to get some coping skills to help you not go through As trauma or go through this chaos or whatever, generally, if you tell somebody that has borderline that they are a borderline, they will come unglued, you know, so you kind of want to dance around it, and you kind of want to be like, hey, you know, this situation where it was a lot of drama and a lot of chaos and thing, you may want to consider talking to a really good therapist and might help you, you know, and they’ll come unglued, generally, but they may be open to it. I mean, you could try but just be aware that that’s probably they’re gonna probably come unglued, but you can try. So just gently, you don’t ever come out and say, Hey, by the way, you have all these trades, I think you’re a borderline because they’ll just absolutely World’s Biggest temper tantrum you’ve ever seen don’t do it. So you’re going to do you’re going to do something kind of skirting around it, like, you know, hey, this might help you or, you know, and honestly self-esteem workbook, you know, get her working on the self-esteem work or him get him or her working on the self-esteem workbook, because borderline is based in trauma. And generally it’s a there’s this huge fear of its attachment disorder. There’s a huge fear of abandonment, there’s a huge fear of, of neglect, there’s a huge fear of not being seen or heard. And really, that boils down to a lot of self-esteem. So if you can get her working him or her working on the self-esteem workbook, that’s going to help them a lot and maybe that’ll give them the encouragement that they need to go get therapy, that would be really good. Okay, next.

Can you explain reactive abuse? And does it go away when the narcissist goes away?

Kris Godinez  51:36

Yes. So reactive abuse, gosh, where have we seen that Johnny Depp and Amber Heard? Um, so reactive abuse is when the abuser poke poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke poke, and finally,

Kris Godinez  51:52

the target of abuse loses it and just has had it and reacts knee jerk reaction. And that is reactive abuse because they’re not normally abusive. That’s not normally who they are. But I swear to you, when a target of abuse gets pushed to the edge, and push hard enough and pushed far enough, they will react they will knee jerk reaction and yell or push or you know, whatever. Generally not hit, you know, really bad, that kind of thing. But they will push somebody who’s in their face out of the way. So it’s reactive. It’s reactive to the Poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke and then finally, the target just blows up. It does go away when the abuser goes away. But, and because it’s an and world, and really strongly recommend going to therapy to work on not a dating abusers be reacting to abusers. gray rock is the best thing you can do turn around and walk away. You do not have to attend every single argument you are invited to. So yeah, it’s gray rock, turn around, walk away and work on yourself. It’s like figure out what led you into this relationship in the first place. And then secondly, you know, fixing your picker, thirdly, working on self-esteem and recognizing you don’t have to attend every single argument you’re invited to no matter what the horrible thing they’ve said, no matter what lie, they’ve just said you can turn around and just go that’s interesting and turn around and walk out. So yeah, absolutely. Okay, one more question. Two more questions. One more question. Okay.

I’m out I’m out of an emotionally abusive relationship. Yes. And she the the person who was in the abusive emotionally abusive relationship with had has a really terrible life and I want to help her so badly with her trauma. As I still love and care for her is there any way that I can do that, all you can do is suggest that she get therapy. It this is beyond your means. So either she’s going to be willing to work on herself. Or she’s not. And all you can do is suggest so if there’s a Buddhist saying let’s see if I can remember how it goes. You cannot walk the path for them. You cannot and you may not they must walk the path themselves. Now you can grab a lantern and go here’s the path hey look therapy.

Kris Godinez  54:31

Hey look, you know self-esteem workbook. Hey, look, better way of doing it. But it’s up to them to actually take the path. So, you can suggest but you can’t do it for him. So, suggest that they go get help suggest that they work these books. And other than that, you can’t do it for them. So yeah, so that’s it. Is that the last question? All right. Bye, loves you guys. Be good. Have a great week. It was so great seeing you guys in Salt Lake and yes, I will be coming back. We’re going to do it again. Next spring, hopefully a little later in the spring because it actually snowed while he was here and I was terrified because I don’t do so. So talk to you guys later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

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