Kris Godinez 00:02
Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.
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Kris Godinez 00:27
Oh, okay, let us dive into today’s topic, which is the subtle signs of abuse that we don’t necessarily pay attention to because they’re not blatant. They’re not like you know, neon, you know, with like stars and stripes and fireworks and everything going on around them so that we can kind of go, “Oh, damn, there’s something’s going on here!” You know? So, it’s a more subtle thing. And it’s basically what I want you to watch for with subtle signs. I really want you to start working on trusting your gut. Trust your gut, trust your gut, trust your gut, because how many times have we had an interaction with somebody, and we leave that interaction and we kind of go, “Oh, I knew I feel slimed. What happened?” Oh, you know, something’s off, right? But we tend to discount that, especially if we have grooming from family. That was like, “No, no, no, no, no, you don’t see the pink elephant in the corner of the living room doing its business!” You know, “No, no, no, no, no, that’s not happening! No, no, no, no, no.” And so, we tend to discount our own gut instincts, which is what gets us in trouble every single time. And so, remember, narcissists are not always overt, so they can be covert, they can be communal, and covert. So sometimes the overt ones revert to covert stuff if they’re not getting their way with the overt stuff. So, it’s really a matter of trusting your gut. Trust your gut, trust your gut, trust your gut, trust your gut, feel how you feel! How do you feel after this interaction? When you’re with somebody that’s healthy, you should be feeling happy and good. And oh, my gosh, I can’t wait to see this person, again! This is great. I had a really good time. I feel good about myself. I feel good about them. I feel good about the world. It’s all good. Right? If you’re with a toxic person, however, they will drain your energy. You’ll feel bad about yourself, you’ll feel off you’ll feel you got slimed. And I don’t know how or why. So, I want to talk about the toxic, subtle signs that Narcissus do so one of the top ones somebody sent in a question and going well, what about stalling? Absolutely. So, when you’re in a relationship with a toxic probably narcissistic person, if they’re, if you’re trying to call them out on their stuff, or if you’re trying to get them to do something that they’re not good at, and they don’t want to be shown up for not being perfect. They’ll start stalling. In other words, “Well, maybe maybe we’ll do that” Maybe is one of their favorite words. And it always drives me crazy when I asked a direct yes or no question and somebody comes back with a maybe because then I’m like, “Oh, you either know or you don’t. And if you don’t, you get back to me when you do and I’m not putting up with this maybe bs!” Do you see where I’m going with that? So maybe as a stall tactic, or later, we’ll talk about that later. That’s stalling that’s stalling because honestly, in a healthy normal relationship, if somebody calls something out, and says, “Hey, we need to talk about this, you know, when can we talk about this?” The person will whip out their calendar and be like, “Okay, I have time, this time to talk and let’s handle this.” That’s what healthy normal people do. Right? Unhealthy, abnormal people, abusers what they do is they stall. “Oh, well, we’ll talk about it later. We’ll talk later.” When, when later, well, when “later” for them is you know, the 12th of never. So, you know, they just stall, stall. So “Well, maybe. Maybe we’ll maybe we’ll do this. Maybe we’ll work on this. Maybe we’ll have this conversation. Maybe I’ll allow you to see your family.” You know, maybe I’ll let this… uh,uh!
Kris Godinez 04:40
Yes or no answers only! I’m sorry. There’s none of this maybe stuff unless they need to think about it like a healthy normal person might need to think about something. But they will definitely give you a “Let me get back to you. Tomorrow morning. After I’ve had a chance to kind of weigh the pros and the cons.” That’s what healthy normal people do. But what abusers do is that “maybe” and it’s perpetual. It never, never ends up happening. So, that’s a stall tactic. That’s, that’s subtle and we don’t always pick up on it. Because in our heads, we’re going, “Oh, well, they just need to think about it. And now, no, no, most people trust their guts and are able to give you an answer right then and there. And if they can’t, they will say, “Look, let me think about it. But I’ll get back to you tomorrow morning,” or whatever time period and it should never be longer than 24 hours. So, because that’s plenty of time. And if they’re like, “Well, I still don’t know.” Yeah, you do. You just, you’re just afraid of telling me. Don’t you even go Hmm, tell you what on don’t you put up with maybe, don’t you put up with the stall tactics? That’s a huge red flag. Okay, so I wanted to hit that one because somebody brought that up, and I wanted to make sure that everybody understood that. Intensity, so they are abnormally intense about subjects that don’t need to be intense about does that make sense? Now granted, I am passionate here about this topic, because this is a huge topic and it involves people’s lives like life or death, right? So, I am passionate about that. If you see me outside of here, I’m chill. It takes a lot to get me riled up so people doing stupid things that riles me up mostly domestic violence. We had a shooting here in Gilbert yesterday just literally down the street was domestic violence thing and the female ended up getting killed and the abuser is in the hospital because he turned the gun on himself and is in intensive care so that I’m passionate about because it’s like, it just makes me go “Oh my God! You know, this could have been stopped, this could have been changed.! This could have been, you know, if people got the word out, which leads me to share as many of these videos as you need to if you know, somebody that is in a domestic violence situation, if you know somebody that’s in a toxic relationship, Share, share, share, share, share, share, share, let’s get the word out so that people don’t get dead. And it breaks my heart because I think the victim was 21 years old. So anyway, all right. Intensity. They’re abnormally intense about things and we mistake that for passion or we mistake that for Oh, they’re really passionate about this, or Oh, they’re really no, they’re, they’re being intense so that nobody has a chance to break in and given an opposing point of view. If somebody is really, really intense and doesn’t stop and doesn’t allow other people to talk, you’re dealing with an abuser. So that leads me into interruptions. They love to interrupt if you are not mirroring back to them, their worldview, their ideas, their likes, their dislikes, their everything, they will start interrupting you or somebody changes the topic and it’s no longer on them, so like you’re in a group, and this person is pontificating, and you know there’s a break and then somebody else goes “Oh well hey you know we you know, we’re thinking about doing ba,ba ba,ba…” and then boom this person erupts again and drags the attention back to them interrupting like that now caveat I want to give Um, yes, they hijack conversations. Um, ADHD does interrupt a lot, but you can tell the difference and this is something else that somebody had sent in and said, “You know, I’m really glad that this meme made the difference between you know, narcissistic, interrupting and ADHD interrupting with ADHD interrupting there’s no malice! There’s no malice. There is no malice. Their brains are going 100,000 million miles a second and they just want to get out what they’re thinking okay? With narcissism It is so clear if you watch it, it is so clear that it’s like “No, no, no, no, no! I need the attention back over here on me!” and there’s malice, there’s malice to it, you can just tell. With ADHD or autism that’s another one that they interrupt a lot and are not really aware of it because with high functioning autism, oftentimes they have a very difficult time understanding social cues but with practice they can kind of start getting the hang of it so that’s another one where they interrupt get interrupted a lot but there’s no malice involved and again, you can tell it’s, it’s not a “Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!” Kind of thing. It’s more about “I’ve got so many ideas and I’ve got this going on it’s in my head and I’m just gonna say it.” Kind of thing. So, it’s, there’s a difference. There’s a difference and you can tell. I mean, if you’ve worked with both enough you can tell the difference and you know, when somebody is, is hijacking the conversation and pulling it back to them and you know,
Kris Godinez 09:31
Um, isolation. So, they start isolating you very subtly. It’s not like it, well, some it is right off the bat. “No, I don’t want you seeing your family and friends.” But pretty soon what it is, is “I don’t want you hanging out with your friend Myrtle. I don’t like her.” And then pretty soon “Oh, well. I also don’t like Harriet. Oh, I also don’t like…” you know, and it’s like weeding out all of the friends that see the abuser for what they are. So, possessiveness, very opposite, like unnaturally jealous and checking up on you all the time. Oh, see, there’s gonna be, I know I’m gonna miss some, but there’s gonna be so many subtle cues that we don’t catch necessarily when we’re in the love bombing phase especially. So, one of them is, when you text them, you know, or they text you do they demand an immediate response. That’s not normal. And let me give you an example. So, a few years ago, John had a co worker, who shall remain nameless, because I don’t want to get sued, who was an abuser, absolutely! And we had gone out a few times with he and his wife, I liked his wife, his wife was nice. But there was something off with the guy, well, all of a sudden, he started, IM’ing me while I was at work, you know, doing my counseling thing. And so I didn’t, IM back for like, a couple of hours. Because you know, I’m dealing with crisises, and clients and paperwork and all sorts of fun stuff. So, I said, “Hey, I’m really sorry, I didn’t get a chance to email back hope everything’s okay. I’ll be off work at, you know, six, you know, we can talk then.” He sent just one nasty IM after another, how dare I ignore him? How dare I don’t respond to him? How dare and of course, you know, I was like, well, you’ve just shown me who you are, and given me confirmation that you are in fact, an abuser. Block, block, you know, so that’s what they do. It’s like they have an abnormal response to what they considered narcissistic injury. So, if you’re not immediately, you know, they demand, you jump and if you don’t ask how high they come unfreaking glued, right? Or, the other thing they do is, you’ll text them, they won’t respond for literally days. I mean, for me, it’s like I’ll text people back when I catch a break in the action. And everybody knows that because it’s like, I got 15 minutes between each session every day, to handle texts and emails and everything else that comes in. So, you know, but what they’ll do is, they’ll leave you hanging for like days, you know, and then they do the “Oh, good morning, sweetheart!” You know so that’s the intermittent positive rewards. So, you got to watch for that stuff. You got to watch for that stuff. And it’s always over the top. It’s not just, “Hey, I’m busy.” It’s, you know, days, days, days, days, days, or they demand that you answer immediately. Um, sabotage, sabotage. So, the other thing they will do is, if something is important to you, they’ll make you late for it. They will. So, like, say, for example, there’s a family function at six o’clock, they will make it so you guys don’t show up until eight or nine. And then be royally pissed that you missed the function. You know, and somehow it’s your fault when it was their fault. You know, so constant lateness, constant missing important things, forgetting important dates, ignoring birthdays. Oh, I forgot, I forgot your birthday. I’m sorry. You gave birth to me. What? Do you see where I’m going about ignoring birthdays? Forgetting birthdays, Forgetting anniversaries? Forgetting important dates? Those are all signs of subtle signs of abuse, you know? And of course, they couch it with “Oh, I forgot. Oh, I forgot.” Ah, wrong. Incorrect response. Thanks for playing please leave the island. Do you see where I’m going with that? Um, subtle put downs, subtle put down. So, what they start doing is they start countering your idea. So, let’s say you go see a movie, or you went to a concert. And you really, really, really love that, that band or that movie that you just saw, or that TV show or something and you’re talking about you’re excited because it’s something that you really, really like, well, then they’ll start going
Kris Godinez 13:57
“That band is stupid, that, that TV show was stupid, that movie is so dumb, and buh, buh, buh, buh, buh.” Sound familiar, because now you’re questioning now you’re like, “Do I like that? Wait! They’re telling me I shouldn’t like and I like them. So maybe I shouldn’t like…”, ah, I mean, it’s fine for people to have differing opinions. That’s fine. I mean, if they said something like, you know, ”I just didn’t really like, whatever you know, but you’re more than welcome to like it. That’s great. I’m glad you like it. I didn’t like it but, hey, that’s fine.” Okay. But what’s not fine is when they demand that you like exactly what they like and that you’re stupid if you think otherwise. I don’t like peanut butter. JOHN loves peanut butter. I am not going to stop him from ever eating peanut butter because he likes it. I personally don’t like it. And that’s okay. It’s not a big deal. But to them. It’s a huge deal. It’s “Well, you’re stupid for not liking it, you should eat it again.” You do and they’ll do that. They’ll force their target of abuse to try foods at the target of abuse already knows they don’t like or is allergic to because why? They want us dead! So yeah, so there is that sabotage, sabotage, sabotage, sabotage in little ways forgetting your birthdays, forgetting anniversaries making us late to family functions, making us late to things that are important to us you know uh not wanting to go to things that are important to us you know that kind of thing. It’s, it’s really subtle put downs you know like I said, fear, obligation, guilt. So they do these little you know, if you don’t think the way I think well maybe we’re not right together, I’m going to leave you abandonment fear, they play on that all the time, Obligation. I did all of this for you. This is the covert hermits kind of thing “Y.ou never write you never call. I did all this for you, you do nothing for me.” And trying to make us feel obligated kind of thing. And then the guilt you know, “You should feel guilty for this! You owe me You should feel guilty for not doing what I want or asking how high when I say jump!” or whatever it is. Volatile, so they fly off the handle about weird things that shouldn’t cause anger. So um, you know, something gets mis ordered at a restaurant and instead of “Okay well this isn’t what I ordered, let me, I’m sorry that this isn’t what I ordered. Can I please have what I ordered?” and then sending it back or whatever you need to do they will demand to speak to, they’re a Karen. They’re a Kyle, I guess is what you would call the male version, they’re a Karen, they’ll you know, “I need to speak to the manager!” And then they blow up and they cause a scene and you’re sitting there going “Dude! You’re going to get more than spit in your food at this place?” You know, I mean, it’s just they’re crazy. They’re they blow things up. They’re volatile. If things are not done to their level of perfection, they come unglued because if it’s not perfect, then oh my God, they’re not perfect. And they’re not perfect! But they can’t handle that. The thing is they can’t handle that idea. A lot of them play the constant victim so watch for that. “Oh, my last girlfriend or boyfriend was you know horrible and terrible and they were a monster!” and every single girlfriend and boyfriend was a monster or bad or wrong or their every single boss they ever had was horrible and bad and wrong. I’m sorry nobody is that much of a victim unless they’re really working at it you know? So, they’re the constant victim they’re constantly blaming they’re constantly judging Oh, Oh, so you’re out with this person and let’s say that you know this is a second or third date and they start judging other people around “Oh my God look oh Becky look at that girl Oh my god, you know she needs to stop eating she needs…” you know what? Why are you, why are you doing that? Now? Here’s another thing they do. They will also ogle males and females you know depending on their sexual orientation. So, you’re out on a date with one of them and they’ll do one of one of these things you know somebody walks by, whoo Look at that, you know, while they’re on a date with you. How disrespectful! How freakin disrespectful! Everybody looks, to be sure, but you’re not going to be like a let me signal that I’m looking at this person you know, and that’s intentional because they’re trying to create doubt. They’re trying to create fear. They’re trying to create not good enough in you so if they’re looking at somebody else male or female and commenting on it or making it extremely obvious that they are looking it’s intentional to make you feel like you’re not enough that’s intentional and that’s subtle. And we don’t always pick that up because we don’t think about it you know, it’s like why are they doing this? The “You make me..” stuff,
Kris Godinez 19:00
“Well, YOU, you made us late!” when in fact THEY did so. They’re projecting. Or “You made me angry.” You know, they never take responsibility for their own emotions. Or you know, “My boss made me angry” or “This made me angry.” or “That made me!” Instead of “I chose to be angry over the situation.” Totally, two totally different things. Um, oh! Rigid thinking. Rigid thinking. They have such rigid thinking, their way or the highway and my dad would say that like literally, “It’s my way or the highway!” and I was like “Peace out! I’m hitting the road!” you know, because it’s like, I’m not gonna live my life like that. Thanks for playing, buh bye. So very rigid thinking um, maybe stalling and talked about that. Um, oh, good, Lord. I suppose I should put my glasses on so I can read my own writing. Hang on. There were just so many… Eye rolling, eye rolling. So that’s another thing. So, you’re stating an opinion that’s important to you. They disagree with it. And rather than saying, “Well, I disagree. You can have your opinion and I disagree.” They will do the very passive aggressive, watch for passive aggressive. Watch for the Snark. That is a really big clue that you’re dealing with an abuser. So, the eye rolling the passive aggressiveness, the snarkiness. That’s, that’s not normal. That is not normal. That is not what normal people do. Oh, everybody lies. So they start telling you that everybody lies. And the reason they do that is because they want you to start doubting your family and friends. And this is subtle. This is really subtle. And so the target of abuse then gets groomed to turn only to the abuser. “Well, I’m the only one that’s being truthful to you, everybody lies, everybody lies.” But what they conveniently leave out is the biggest liar in the room is Oh, I don’t know, them. You know, so they do that everybody lies thing. And it’s intentional to erode trust in the family and friends that are sitting here going, “Danger, danger, danger! What, what are you doing? This person is abusive! They’re isolating you! What are you doing?” So that’s why they’re doing that, so that you will only turn towards them. Um, checking up on you constantly. So that’s another form. So in the love bombing phase, it feels like attention. It feels like love. But in reality, “Who are you with? Where are you at? When are you coming home? What are you doing? When are you going to get home?” You know, that kind of thing. And that just goes on from there, I mean, then eventually it becomes “Well, you told me you were going to get home, you know, at three o’clock, and you came home at 330! What were you doing?” with the implication being that you’re cheating. That kind of thing. And pretty soon you find yourself defending yourself or telling them everything. “Well, I was out to dinner with my cousin Sue.” “Well, I don’t like Sue, you don’t need to go out to dinner with her, she made you late.” See, do you see where that’s going to? See how they twist stuff? They flip the script, flipping the script, that’s another subtle one that they do, you start trying to bring up stuff that is about them, you know, calling them out on behavior that you would like to see changed, which is what you do in a healthy normal relationship if there are issues, you know, and instead of “Okay, let’s talk about this.” … “Well, you do it too. Well, you know, last week ba, ba, ba, ba…” you know, word salad, all sorts of crazy stuff. That’s subtle, not so subtle, you know, just kind of depends. Um, countering, I talked about. Trying to, trying to get you to change your, your held belief. And they will do that with religion as well, religion and family. So, let’s say that you have a deeply held religious belief, they will sit there and tell you, you’re stupid for believing it number one. Two, and that’s the counter right? Two: they’ll start making fun of you for having that belief. “Well, you know, only stupid people believe blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..” right? And then third, what they’ll do is, they’ll start insisting that you not go to your religious institution, or whatever it is, that is spiritual to you, they’ll tell you, “Well, that’s stupid, you shouldn’t go!” right? And then pretty soon you stop going. Now, again, you’re isolated, and who’s the only authority? Them. And that’s what they want. Same thing with family, “Well, I don’t want to go into this family function. I don’t want you being around your ex boyfriend or girlfriend, I don’t want you doing this. I don’t want you doing that.” You know, it’s like Dayum! So, it’s, it’s really insidious, the way they start flipping the script and getting you to give up deeply held beliefs and deeply loved family and friends. That is what they do. Okay, dootdadootdadoo, they accuse the target of talking too much. You’re too sensitive. You’re too this, you’re too that you talk too much. And that’s usually done when the target of abuse is trying to address the dysfunction that they see. And so the abuser will flip the script, you talk too much, when in fact, the target hardly ever talks and it’s the abuser that’s doing the non stop talking. So yeah.
Kris Godinez 23:56
Okay. Forgetting birthdays, anniversaries, conditional love. “Oh, well, you know, I would love you more. And I wouldn’t think about leaving you if you just exercise and lost weight.” Oh, my God, I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve heard targets of abuse telling me that. So, it’s conditional. “Well, you know, I would probably stay with you, if you…” fill in the blank, you know, and sometimes it’s financial. And sometimes it’s physical. And sometimes it’s, you know, whatever the abuser wants, because remember, in their head, they have to be perfect, and they have to have the best of the best of the best of the best. And if you’re not perfect, God forbid, you’re a human being and you packed on a couple of quarantine pounds. You see where I’m going with that? They’ll start doing the whole “Well, I’ll love you. If you lose weight.” Screw that noise! They can ingest a satchel of Richard’s! Thanks for playing! You know what I’m saying? Because it’s like that’s BS. That’s conditional love. Love is unconditional. You love that person. No matter what. Hey, we gained so much During the quarantine, we’re going to get it off again. We’re gonna work together. It’s all good. I love you. You’re fabulous. You are beautiful. To me to everyone else. You are beautiful. I love you unconditionally. That’s unconditional love. Their love. Extremely conditional, extremely conditional. They keep a scorecard. Well, you did this you did that you did that you did this, you did that, you know, it’s like they remember every single sleight that was ever done to them real or imagined, okay, because half the time the slights that they’re deciding to argue about and they pick fights for no apparent reason about things that do not matter who that’s another subtle one that we don’t always catch on, you know, because it’s like, Why are Why are you coming unglued over this? Why do I need to apologize for this? I don’t what’s what are you doing? You know, and then they keep the scorecard. They don’t respect alone time, especially during the love bombing phase. So when they’re needing to get those hooks into you, they will not leave you alone. It’s like, “Well, let’s, I want to see you every day. I just you know, you’re just the greatest things ever since sliced bread. And I just I want to see you every day. I want to see you every day.” Well, that should be a huge red flag. Even though in our love bombing phase, we’re sitting there going, Oh, that’s really sweet. They really like me. They want to see me every day. Well, that’s kind of a red flag. They don’t respect the alone time. Everyone needs alone time. Everyone does! Absofreakinglutely! Mine is going out and sitting on my hammock and just swinging. And just listening to the birds. You know, alone time everybody needs it. You know, and John knows and his alone time is practicing the trombone and doing his music stuff and things like that. So, we have alone time. We’re a couple we do things together, but we also have alone time. So yeah, they don’t respect that. They don’t. They don’t tolerate that. They don’t want that. Because that gives you time to think and not be constantly gas lit and brainwashed by them. They want to know all your passwords, they want to know who you’re talking to on the phone. “Well, who’s that? Well, who’s you’re talking to? When were you talking to them? Well, who’s this person?” You know, none of their business. And no, they don’t need your passwords. They don’t. So, no matter who they are, they don’t need your passwords. So, there is that. Um.. Oh, yeah, talked about that. Um, oh, they never, ever, ever see your point of view. Every single time you try to get them to see your point of view. I can guarantee you they will flip the script and they will never be able to go “Oh, I see where you’re coming from. Okay, no, Okay, I get it. Okay, I get it. I get why you’re feeling that way. Okay, I get your point of view.” They’ll never do that. They’ll never do that because in their head, that’s a lose. That’s a win lose situation they need to win. So they will never see your point of view ever. And that’s where you get these circular arguments. That’s another huge red flag subtle one. Circular arguments. Um, actions and words do not match that should be one of your biggest clues. Everything is one sided. You feel very defensive. You feel like you’re walking on eggshells you get that icky feeling not knowing why but you just know something’s off but you’re not sure what it is. You don’t feel safe bringing up certain topics you start censoring your self and that’s subtle. This is kind of like the old
Kris Godinez 28:28
the old tale about the frog in the pot it’s not true but you know supposedly if you put a frog in a pot and you turn the heat on it won’t even notice that it’s getting boiled to death well i don’t i don’t think that’s true what I don’t want to find out but it’s the same idea it’s like we start curtailing ourselves making ourselves smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller in order to accommodate them so that they don’t come unglued and have a rage fest or make us wrong or put us down so if you find yourself having to become smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller in order to please them, Houston, huge red flag, huge red flag you should be able to discuss literally anything with a partner who is healthy like literally anything you know, what’s going on in the marriage, what’s going on in the world, what’s going on, you know, whatever, you know, you should be able to have those conversations without the judgment but if they’re sitting there judging you and know you have to think their way or the highway, huge red flag and if you’re becoming smaller and smaller and smaller, that’s, that’s also a huge red flag. Okay, we are going to get to questions in just a minute. I just want to make sure that I got all of these. Um Okay, eye rolling, stalling, maybe ogling? No sense of humor. Oh, my goodness, or their sense of humor is extremely at other people’s expense. You know, they laugh when other people get hurt. They make fun of you for having a loud laugh, they tell you to be quiet you know that “Oh my gosh you’re so inappropriate! Stop laughing so loud!” Well, me, I throw my head back and I give a good hearty laugh cuz that’s who I am. I make Hyenas run. You know and that’s how I’m always going to be and you know there’s a little saying about the devil runs from laughter boom yes I just said that. So okay so here’s some other ones that I want to make sure subtle signs of emotional abuse This is off of psychology today. This is by Stephens, Dasani PhD. This was written in 2018 they make judgments about others we talked about that they never accept blame you know they don’t take responsibility they prefer to blame others they try to tell you how to think and feel oh this is one of the subtle ones I forgot to bring up. They will correct how you talk they will correct your laughter they will correct what you say they will correct what you think with the implication being you’re wrong. So, you know extreme grammar nazis extreme how you say things Nazis, you know, that kind of thing. They will do that because they’re trying to take away your personality, they’re trying to take away who you are. Trolling. Let’s talk about that. If they brag a lot, you know, you’re just started dating them or whatever, and they start bragging about how they got that troll or how they pulled a fast one on so and so on social media. I can guarantee you you are dealing with an abuser because healthy normal people and give time for that stuff. We just don’t. I got my life to live. I got my dog. I got better things to do, than trolling other people. Thanks for playing. So, they’ll troll. They’ll troll. They’ll troll, they’ll troll and then they’ll brag about it because they think somehow that they’re smarter and better than everybody else. Oh no, they’re not. Okay, um, hang on. You know, I know I’m going over Hold on, I just got a few more I just want to make sure to get these out. Okay. They withdraw affection in the face of agreements and disagreements. So, you know, they’ll, they’ll do that with stonewalling, which is different from stalling so stonewalling is when they refuse to talk to you when they refuse to acknowledge you or deal with you. And that’s their withdrawing their love because they don’t love number one and number two, they’re pissed that you are confronting them because they have to be right at all costs. And I do mean, all costs. They do the whole year crazy thing. You’re too sensitive. That was the whole you know, especially when you’re confronting,
Kris Godinez 32:29
They will imply that you are not competent, smart or resourceful enough. They are very threatened by their targets, because they want to be their targets and when they realize they can’t, they want us dead. Sarcasm, snarkiness I think I talked about that. And you’re walking on eggshells, so that those are the subtle signs and they’re subtle they’re not honestly guys, when I say these things, it sounds blatant and it sounds very obvious but when they’re doing it, they’re so charming and they’re so, it’s like a hidden run. Screw you basically is what it is. So they come in, drop the bomb and are out of there. And by the time you realize what happened, you’re like, “What the…? Why do I feel terrible? What just….how did this? What?” Yeah, and they work on that confusion. They love to keep you confused. They love to keep, that’s another subtle sign. They love to keep you confused. They do hit and run screw you’s they you know, watch how you feel when you leave this you know when you’re out of their brainwashing and they’re gaslighting. How do you feel away from them? Do you feel better? Well, that’s a huge sign that you probably should get the hell away from these people. So, anyway that was a great topic guys. Thank you so much for suggesting that. Alright, let me hit the questions and then I will tell you what next week’s topic is going to be so what the oh good heavens. Okay, here we go. Um, the toxic stall is infuriating. If someone’s doing that, how should I respond? Well, I give a time limit. I absolutely give a time limit. If somebody is like “Well, let me think about…” Okay, you got 24 hours. “Well, that’s how dare you! That’s not enough time!” Okay. I guess the answers no. Bye. That seriously, that’s how I deal with it. Because they’re trying to control it’s a manipulation and a control tactic it absolutely is and that’s a huge red flag that you need to be done with this person. Because healthy normal people understand that you need a time, okay, I need time to think, but then, you know, at the end of that time, I have to have an answer. And if they don’t have an answer, “Well, maybe….” Ah, no, that’s a no we’re done. Thanks for playing Buh, bye. Yeah, don’t put up with it and run to the opposite direction. Run do not walk to the nearest exit. Yeah, that’s that’s pretty much it. Um, how do you differentiate between trusting your gut about something versus fear of reacting to something based on past trauma. So, this is why it is hugely important to get with a good trauma therapist to work on the trauma CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, The Inner Child Workbook by Katherine Taylor ,The Disease To Please Harriet Braiker, The Self Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, or You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero. Any and all of these books are great. The CPTSD one is probably going to help you the most. So this is why you want to work on the trauma This is why you want to get with a good trauma therapist so you can clear all of that trauma and separate what is the trauma what is the trauma response versus that calm quiet gut response. The gut is not frantic it is not panicked, it is not story. The head and the heart are the ones that do the trauma response and they will be like “Well but yes. but no but…” oh my gosh and this story and that story and what about this What about that? What if. What if. What if… you know all of that stuff. The gut is a quiet yes or no answer to a yes or no question. Simple. But you can’t hear the gut if you’ve got the trauma response blaring in your ears freaking you out and confusing you so that’s why it’s really important CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. The Disease to Please Harry breaker, Self Esteem Workbook Glen Schiraldi.
Kris Godinez 36:10
Brain gone. Who’s Pulling Your Strings also by Harriet Braiker. That’s a great book. Um, so yeah, so that’s that. How you start sorting that out. The gut is quiet. It’s a quiet yes or no to a yes or no question. Anything else is a trauma response. And that probably should be journaled out. I asked my gut this, but my brain in my heart said this, you know, and try to work it through and get with a good trauma therapist so you can work through so yeah. How to deal with someone who constantly brings you into an argument, to turn it around on you saying it’s always your fault, or you’re the reason How do you de escalate the situation you refuse to play? I’m not getting involved in this. Nope, we’re not going to discuss this. I’m not interested. Thank you. Nope, you know, gotta go, bye and then you turn around, walk out. We do not have to attend every argument we are invited to. Let me just say that again. We do not have to attend every argument we are invited to. We can say no. And we can walk away. And then we can cut those people off and go no contact or very low contact. Because they’re looking for a scapegoat. They’re looking for drama, they’re looking for whatever, and you don’t have to play you don’t have to play. Now, are they going to have a fit if you do that? Yeah, well, you don’t have to play the game. You don’t. Absolutely. Okay, why do narcissists use the silent treatment to control? It is to control. The studies have shown multiple times that when the silent treatment is done, it affects the same areas of the brain as pain. So, it literally is painful for someone we love. Because we love them. They don’t love us. We love them. They don’t love us. Let me just say that again. We love them. They do not love us. So, it is extremely painful for someone we love to do the silent treatment it’s intentional, it’s torture. People who love you do not torture you Okay, just remember that so it’s torture it hurts it physically hurts when they do the stonewalling then we sit there in our head going oh my gosh oh, they’re not there. Why are they talking to me? Why are they targeting me? Why are they out and then we dig to have their attention which they love they’re sitting there going hmm yeah, that’s what I wanted. Mm hmm yeah, I got what I want it narcissistic supply Yeah, they’re assholes shouldn’t have said that. But anyway, the point being, they’re, they’re not nice. So, and that’s intentional. They want you to be suffering they want you to beg for their attention because that’s narcissistic supply for them that’s their cocaine. So how you deal with it is you call it out you know what this is the silent treatment I’m not putting up with this either you’re willing to talk to me or we’re done by and then you leave and of course they’re gonna go Oh, no, no, no, no, I want to talk I want to talk bla bla bla bla bla. don’t engage. They’ve shown you who they are, be done. Don’t have to play be done when somebody does the silent treatment be done. That’s that’s pretty far down on the spectrum. So remember, traits of, down here. full blown dark triad crazy cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs down here. By the time they’re intentionally doing the silent treatment, they know exactly what they’re doing. They always know exactly what they’re doing. They know what they’re doing. They’re doing it intentionally. It’s meant to hurt. It’s meant to harm Do you really want to be in a relationship with somebody who is intentionally trying to hurt and harm you?
Kris Godinez 39:41
Hell no! Hell no! Uh, uh. So be done! They’re showing you who they are. Okay, um, why is religion such a magnet for them? So, religion, communal Narcissus, my dad was a communal narcissist as well as borderline. Okay, you can have both. So it religion is a great way to control people if you misuse it if you misuse it you know think of Jim Jones he totally misused Christianity totally you know because he was demanding that everybody be celibate but yet he would have sex with all of the females you know and then he ended up killing 900 people by getting them to literally drink the poison cyanide Kool Aid so you know it’s power it’s a way to manipulate it’s a way to play on people’s emotions it’s a way to you know, and my dad would do that well you know, God is gonna you know, do this that and the other thing to you because you swear, well that’s between me and God, Mother clucker you know, I mean it’s a way to control it’s a way to manipulate Do you see where I’m going with that? That’s why they’re so attracted to religions and more importantly attracted to creating their own cults. So yeah, that’s the communal narcissist that is the communal narcissist where they present one way on the outside I’m gonna if you looked at the people’s church in San Francisco with Jim Jones it looked great you know it looked like okay this is a good church this is you know, this and the other and then when you really started peeling back the layers of the onions and you saw what was going on behind the scenes Oh my higher power because it was not good because they were like you know, he was abusing people he was you know, a horrible person and he was a narcissist absolutely communal narcissist. So that’s why they’re attracted to it for the power. They are in it for the power and they’re in it for the control. So, a lot of abusers a lot of abusers use religion. And it doesn’t have to be Christianity, they can use Buddhism. Do you know how many freakin gurus there are out there that are like, I’m so woke. I swear to God, if you hear somebody say that they’re woke run, do not walk to the nearest exit because they ain’t! I’ll tell you that much. You don’t have to. A lion does not need to announce that they’re a lion, you know that they’re a lion. So do you see what I’m going with that so somebody has to announce to you how, how enlightened they are and how woke they are and how self aware they are. You can bet your bippy they ain’t. And but this is what these communal narcissists do is that you know, they sell this, how woke they are, how enlightened they are, or whatever. And in truth, they’re not, you know, and they’re leading people down a primrose path, and they usually like Jim Jones end up killing. Waco, Texas. What was the guy in Waco, Texas? Oh, Koresh, David Koresh. Same thing, same thing, and who ends up suffering, who ends up getting killed the women and the children, there were so many children that were murdered, Oh, geez. And both of those scenarios, and it just, it’s all for the at the altar of their
Kris Godinez 42:50
ego. Don’t get me started, too late. Oh, that’s why they do it. It’s power and control. And it’s a way to manipulate and it’s a way to get narcissistic supply at the expense of innocent men, women and children, and it never ends well. So there that is, um, why is my narc family so angry that I left if I was the problem in the first place? Because you were their favorite punching bag. And now they have to pick another one and they don’t want to be it. That’s what they do. So, when somebody leaves an abuser, this is when they go completely bat shmomo crazy. So um, when a family member leaves, now this, this family system has to switch and who’s going to be the next target, who’s going to be the next victim who’s gonna be the next you know, that they get to pick on and when you’re gone, they’re angry. They’re angry. Oh, my God, let me just make this perfectly clear to you. I read a meme sometime this week. And I know I posted it and I can’t remember which one it was. But it was, you know, stop thinking that the narcissist is ever going to have remorse or miss you or remember the good times or get what you did for them. No! When you figured out what they were up to. And you left, they immediately went on a smear campaign. And they immediately started damning you to anyone who would listen because they’re enraged that you got away. their ego can’t handle that. So yeah, that’s what they’re doing. So don’t think that they miss you or that they, you know, and this is this is the tragedy of these abusers. For us, it’s our tragedy, it’s not their tragedy, they don’t feel, they don’t care. But for us, the ones that figure it out and leave we grieve. We grieve the loss of what we thought we had. We grieve the loss of the mirage of this person that we thought was just wonderful. We grieve it, they don’t. As soon as we leave well we’re doodoo and we are smeared and put down and you know told horrible stories about and, and they’re angry! They’re pissed as hell that we left. They are, they’re so angry that we left because we got away and their ego can’t handle it. So, pat yourself on the back, stay gone. Um, block them, block them, block them, block them, block them, block them, block them on everything, social media, email, phone, etc. You don’t need to be a part of it, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. They’re angry at you. Let Them! Let them be angry at you. You can’t control it anyway. You go live your best life! The best revenge is to live well! Seriously. Okay, how do I deal how to deal with your abuser literally calling themselves the victim? They do that and saying you are the abuser. They do that. Please see the above question, when clearly they are self centered, never apologetic or considerate of anyone else. So, they’re going to do what they’re going to do, guys. And this is exactly what they do. They do. They run around, tell everybody that they’re the victim, that you’re the abuser, they’re the victim, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. I don’t know about you, but I have yet to see a true target of abuse come out and say, Oh my gosh, I’ve been victimized, because they don’t want to believe it. And I’ve been doing this for years, guys. So, when anyone runs around and goes, I’m a victim. I’m a victim of the Oh, please. Oh, hey, Uh huh. Right. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, you, true victims. True targets of abuse don’t do that. They just don’t the, the years I’ve been doing this, I’ve never had one. Tell me that they were a victim. What I’ve had them do is I don’t understand why this is happening. Why did this person I love suddenly do this. I feel so lost, I feel so confused. That’s what they do. Target the target of abuse never loudly announces that they’re a victim and that this other person was an abuser. Or if they’ve been doing a little bit of work on themselves. They’ll go, Oh, I think I was in an abusive relationship. Can you give me some confirmation?
Kris Godinez 46:55
So yes, this is what the abusers will do. Can you control what they do and say? No, no, let them because here’s the thing, guys, the truth comes out in the end, it may take years, it may take lifetimes, but it always comes out in the end and it’s not your job to punish them. Or to confront them or anything else. You let them go. The people who know you will know the truth. And anyone who is willing to believe the worst of you based on what the abuser is saying is not your friend. They are a flying monkey. Okay. All right. I set a boundary and my narc parent crossed it of course. Is that a classic act of abuse? Well, not respecting boundaries is abuse. It is when you tell somebody, here’s my list of deal breakers. And I’m not willing to negotiate on these and they go, Oh, yeah, watch this. And then they cross over them. They’re trying to assert power. They’re testing. They’re testing you, trying to see if you’re serious or not. So yeah, that’s, that’s a disrespect to be sure. And disrespect is one of the top ones on the list of deal breakers. I think I’ve talked about that before. Hang on just a second. Okay, so on the list of deal breakers, no disrespect, that means don’t cross deal, deal breakers. Don’t cross my boundaries. No name calling. No lying. No cheating. No rewriting history. No name calling. No smearing. No…. Look, there’s a whole list of deal breakers. So, the first one if they crossed a boundary, that’s a disrespect, no disrespect. Ah, you don’t get to disrespect me like that. Goodbye. You know, do NPD’s ever go to a therapist? Oh, they try. So, what they’ll do is they’ll go once, maybe twice, possibly three times unless, caveat, they can manipulate the therapist. If they can manipulate the therapist, and they usually pick somebody who’s brand new out of school who has absolutely no experience with personality disorders, they’ll go for a little bit so that they can you know, especially if it’s couples counseling, this is why you never want to go to couples counseling with a narcissist, because they will flip the script, they will use the inexperienced counselor against the target. So, you don’t want to do that. Do they go to therapy? Yeah, but they don’t stick with it. They’ll go one, maybe three times at the most. And then as soon as they started having to be introspective or get real or start working on stuff or you know, hey, and what is your part? They peace out. So, you know, could you talk or give ideas about how to tell children what really happened during an abusive marriage, I’m afraid to tell too much. So, you never want to bad mouth, the other parent. Why? Because that child is 50% that parent. So, what I encourage people to do is to write it out first. It’s like get it out of your head, get out on the paper, burn it. Do it again. Do it a third time and then on the fourth time, save that letter for when they’re adults. And then you can decide at a later date what you’re going to tell them and how you’re going to tell it to so but don’t ever bad mouth them. Um so, you want to tell the truth without making it about them and without turning them into your counselor and without in this is you know get a therapist get a family therapist and have them help you guide you through this. So if the child is asking you know if the child is a grown at 18 years old, right? And they’re like Mom, Dad What happened you know, Mom or Dad, what happened, then you can be like, okay, there’s there stuff that you need to know. It’s really heavy duty but I want to make sure you’re okay let’s go to a family counselor to process all of this that would be the safest way to do it. So yeah, if they’re smaller than that, I would write and burn the letters and save it for him for when they’re 18 and then again, get to a family therapist and process because that’s what that’s a lot of stuff. That is a lot of stuff. It’s really it’s heavy for kids and you don’t want to dump that on them and what I see what I see a lot of people doing is unwittingly turning their child into their counselor and you don’t want that or you know, trying to turn the kid against the other parent because they’re so afraid that the narcissist is going to take the kid away parental alienation which again is also not a good idea. So get with a family therapist get with a family therapist and start working through this stuff. Why do Narcissistic Personality disordered never back down because they have to be right they have to win literally at all costs like literally all costs they’re they’re it’s they’re that’s just the way they are it’s a win lose situation for them. They don’t believe in the Win Win It has to be they win everybody else loses because they have to be right they have to be the smartest the brightest the prettiest the most handsome the you know everything in the room they have to win at all costs and they will do whatever they have to in order to win after every single thing is said and done. They need the final word Yes. Even if it’s just a twisted around how awful you are. Well yeah and especially if you got them logically you’re like they’re in a corner they can’t win then their refuge is name calling.
Kris Godinez 52:06
So if you ever see anybody start resorting to name calling you know you’re dealing with a narcissist you are because that’s not how normal people do. Why is it dangerous to go to couples counseling with an abuser? They will turn it on you, they will flip the script and if they’re with a counselor that doesn’t know how to deal or does not recognize abuse, they will take whatever is sincerely said in counseling so for example you know you’re sincerely there the target of abuse is sincerely there to fix things. The narcissist is not, the narcissist is there to show that you’re crazy. That’s their whole goal. You know, and now I’ve had them do this they’ll come in and they’ll be like, well my spouse is crazy. You’re crazy You’re too sensitive You’re too and as soon as they say that I’m like okay, we need to stop I’m gonna be seeing each other you guys individually we’re not doing couples counseling we’ll do and and of course then the narcissist has a fit because then they don’t get to know what’s going on in the session. So yeah, that’s that’s why you don’t do it because they will take whatever you say in session and use it against you. And they will literally, you know, like, oh man, one time I had this couple come in and they admitted that there was abuse I was like, No, I’m sorry. You go on the other end and I’m gonna interview both of you separately. And I did that and we didn’t have a full complete session I was just kind of getting you know, history and background and then you know, I let them know I said, I’m not doing couples counseling with you. Well, the abuser had a fit, you know, and then they were out in the parking lot to the point where I ended up almost calling the police I finally told him I said, you need to leave. And if you don’t, I’ll be calling the police because they were just sitting there screaming at you. They were both abusive. There was not this was not reactive abuse. This was like, crazy. This was something was going on more than just this. So you know, yeah. And so they’ll they’ll sit there in the parking lot and scream at the partner for having said something in session. So yeah, so there’s that. Um, abusers hate laughter because they don’t feel they don’t really truly have joy when somebody is joyous, right? And they throw their head back if they want cuz that’s what I do. I throw my head back and I laugh. I just laugh really loud. Something tickles me. The whole world knows it. You know, abusers hate that because they don’t feel they don’t love they don’t have the empathy card. They don’t feel that joie de v they don’t they just don’t feel it. So when they see somebody else feeling it. I cannot tell you the number of times I have had total strangers walk up to me go you’re, you’re laughing too loud. Okay, well, don’t listen to me then. I’ll do it on purpose. Oh, go ingest a satchel of Richards. I’ll do it on purpose. You know what I mean? It’s like don’t tell me how to laugh, repressed person, you know, especially if it’s like I’m not even talking to them. I’m having a private conversation with a group table over here everybody else is also laughing I just happen to be the loudest and this person who I don’t even know comes over and tries to tell me to stop laughing yeah go ingest a satchel Richards, not going to do it. Have a nice day. Bye! Your problem. So yeah, they hate it. They hate it. You know, like I said, why the devil runs from laughter, they don’t like it because it’s something they cannot feel. And it makes them angry. That response that I got to laughing that person was pissed. And it wasn’t because I was being loud it wasn’t because I was being inappropriate. Oh Sherry, thank you. It wasn’t because I was being loud or inappropriate. It was because I was truly having a great time and they hated it. They couldn’t stand it because it kept reminding them that they’re miserable. So there that is, um, how do I leave my toxic family behind and not feel guilty about it, you are going to feel guilty because they have trained us to feel guilty, they have. Remember toxic families train us to do fear, obligation and guilt. So, what you’re going to do is you’re going to start working with a good trauma therapist you’re gonna start working CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. You’re going to do The Self Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi or You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero and you’re going to start working on every time the guilt pops up, you’re going to be thought stopping. Excuse me I’m starting to lose my voice sorry I’m probably going to stop here pretty soon. You’re going to do thought stopping so when the guilt pops up oh I see you I hear you Who taught you to me? Oh well that would be you mom and dad. Well guess what guilt? I’m sending you back. Return to Sender. No address here. Thanks for playing buh bye. Go play in traffic! Bye bye now, buh bye that’s what you’re gonna have to do. You’re gonna have to thought stop, thought stop, thought stop, thought stop every single time that guilt pops up you put it back to where it belongs. So Pete Walker. Chapter three CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving. I think it’s chapter three, could be chapter four, three or four can’t remember which
Kris Godinez 56:59
one is he talks about putting the blame the shame, the guilt, the anger back on to the abuser. All of these learned behaviors. All these fleas. You gotta squish because they’re not yours. Send them back. They’re not yours. Absolutely. Okay, I think we’re gonna make this one our last one. Is there a difference between a mutual friend and a flying monkey? Not really. So, here’s the thing. Healthy normal people do not side with the abuser. They don’t make excuses for the abuser. They don’t believe the abuser. They believe the target of abuse. So, a mutual friend. Nope. Be very careful. Because if they know what this person did you and they’re still friends with them. They’re okay with that. I’m sorry. Pound sand. Thanks for playing. Buh bye. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, no, you want to be very careful of any quote unquote, mutual friends because they know what this person did to you and they’re still okay with it. They are not your friends. So, there’s that. Okay. Thanks, you guys. And thank you for all the great questions and I will talk to you next week. Have a wonderful, wonderful week! There it is. Okay. All right. I’ll talk to you guys later. Bye.