We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

05-15-2022 Mini Me The Golden One
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses family roles, specifically, the golden child. Why the abuser needs the roles and how those roles affect the family members.

Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

All right. Let’s dive into it. So today, mini mes, mini mes so. So, I really wanted to do so many different titles for this. It was like mini mes, golden child, you’re not your parents, because you’re not you don’t have to be but mini me’s Why do abusers insist that kids get put into these roles, so a little bit of review, and then we’re going to dive into the golden child. So, what abusers do is they cannot stand kids having their own personality, interests, their own way of doing things, they can’t handle the randomness of life, they really can’t. So, what they do is they shove the kids into these neat little boxes, and they try to force them to stay into those boxes. So, generally, when you have a dysfunctional family, you will have the golden child which we are going to go more in depth because we’ve already talked a lot about the scapegoat, because most of us were scapegoats. So, the golden, the golden child can do no wrong. The golden child is usually the mini me. So, if you remember that movie with Steve, what the heck was his name? I can’t think office, that guy. Anyway, the mini me’s, the little, the little yellow things. Um, those were all mini mes, it was like, okay, they’re supposed to do exactly what the villain wants them to do. And that’s essentially the job of the golden child, the golden child is supposed to be exactly like the abuser, like all the same things think the same way, dress the same way. And we’re gonna get more into that. Okay, so hold on, then you have the middle child, which is usually the ignored one, there’s usually one or two that are just completely ignored. Depending on how many children are in the family, then you’ve got the scapegoat, or the black sheep, and they’re the ones that the abuser puts all of the blame, the shame, the guilt, the whatever, it’s always their fault. Even if they were nowhere near the scene of the crime, it was somehow their fault. Then you’ve got the comic. So, the comic of the family or the helper of the family, tries to save the family, tries to keep things light tries to you know, that kind of thing. So let’s talk today about the golden child. Because we’ve talked a lot about the ignored middle child, we’ve talked a lot about the scapegoat, because that’s what most of us were designated the golden child.

Kris Godinez  03:24

So the golden child is forced into the role of becoming exactly like the abuser, like they have to be the smaller version of the abuser. So they have to think the same way they do. They have to like the same foods, they have to dress the same way I have seen abusive spouses, especially in the custody battles. when they get the kids, they insist that they each have the same outfit. It’s kind of creepy. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on those cruises where the couple’s dress alike, it’s kind of the same thing. So instead of a couple dressing alike, it’s the kids dressing like the adults. So they’re exactly matching shoes, matching pants matching, shirt matching, baseball cap matching, whatever. So and this happens to male and female children, it doesn’t matter the abuser will pick one to become the golden child and then that golden child because they’re just like the abuser can do no wrong. Because the abuser has groomed them to be just exactly like them. So therefore that kid is always in the right. They don’t do anything wrong. They’re held up to the other children. Why can’t you be more like you know, Bobby, why can’t you be more like Suze? Why can’t you? Why can’t you be like your older brother or sister or your younger brother or sister whoever the designated golden child is. It doesn’t necessarily follow with ages, it can be younger. It can be older, it can be whatever. It’s just whoever the abuser decides, is most like them. And so they start grooming them to be exactly like them.

Now, what ends up happening, as most of us have seen out of personal experience is that the golden child, it sets up this. What’s the word, I’m looking for this antagonistic, nasty, you know, these, these guys, these kids over here, the ignored one and the scapegoat, and the comic and everybody else can never be good enough. Because they’re always being compared to the golden child, the golden child, on the other hand, gets the best of everything, the best of the best of everything. So, you know, if if the abuser has gotten a lot of their identity wrapped up in who this child is, or what this child does, they will do things Oh, my Lord, they will do things like like, say, for example, the kid is good in sports, well, they’ll suddenly want to coach, they’re gonna want to be there to coach because they want to take credit for how good this kid is. So they’ll want to be the coach, they’ll be overly involved, they’ll be in meanwhile, the other kids are ignored, you know, kind of shoved to the side not paid attention to told they’re never right, etc, etc. And this kid is getting the best of the best of the best of the best. And that includes like education. So like, let’s say, the other kids want to go to school, right? They want to go to college. And instead of setting them up for success, the abuser will do everything they can to sabotage those kids getting into a good college or getting into any college at all period. Meanwhile, they are bending over backwards to get this one into an Ivy League, oh, my god University, right? Whereas the other ones are just as smart right? But they’re not given that opportunity at all. And you would look at that and go, why? If you’re feeding your ego, wouldn’t you want all the kids to do? Well? Yes. Well, if you’re dealing with somebody who’s sane, you would think that right? You know, you would think the logical thing would be like, well, you want all your kids to do well, because then you know, shows that you’re a good parent, you’re teaching everybody and you’re encouraging them to get schooling or, you know, go to a trade school or whatever is good for them, right. But they don’t, they don’t, they don’t want everyone to win. Because in their crazy way of thinking, everyone has got to follow the cubicles that they’ve been shoved into.

So in other words, the comic can never be the smart one, the ignored middle child can never have attention ever. Even if they write an amazing physics paper they can never have attention is not okay. The Scapegoat can never be anything other than wrong. Hear this Gong when I say that wrong, you know, because that’s what it is. And they the abuser cannot handle it when the kids start breaking out of those neat little cubicles that they’ve been shoved into. And so they want the status quo. And what they’ll do it from a very young age is they will make it clear to the kids that it’s not okay to break out of those particular stereotypes or ways of thinking or ways of being or whatever.

Kris Godinez  08:24

So what does this do to a family? Well, it creates a lot of animosity, it really and it’s intentional. Let us be clear here. The abuser wants animosity between the kids, they do and the best way to set that up is to pick a favorite. And then give them everything and then tell these other ones that they’re not good enough. What kind of good parent does that? Well, let me clue you in no good parent does that. So they create this animosity between the kids now, if the kids go get help, there is a really good chance that the golden child will wake up and see what’s going on and realize this is not cool. Okay? Again, we’re dealing with nature, nurture, nature, nurture, if their nature is to be narcissistic, because they’re not born with empathy, then no, there is nothing you can do to change them. However, I have seen plenty of children that had an influence from a narcissist, from malignant, borderline, etc. That was set up as the golden child that once they became adults, and they realized this isn’t working. There’s all this animosity, I don’t like it. I don’t like what’s happening. This feels icky. You know, and they start working on themselves. They do break out of it, and they’re able to be like, no, no, this is not cool. Okay. So again, nature nurture, nature nurture. are they picking up fleas from the abuser or are they really narcissists?  And again, is it nature, if they don’t have compassion and empathy, then they’re just going to cling to that golden child role because that they have now identified as I am perfect I am. I am the golden child, I am always right and very narcissistic. And they’re just like that parent, those ones probably won’t change. But if you’ve got kids who were shoved into that role, they actually like their siblings, they’re seeing that their siblings are suffering and they don’t like it, and they start getting help for themselves, then yes, they can change but the damage it does is huge. And here’s why.

Narcissists, and malignant borderlines are the ones that are just like, all the way over to the toxic end of the cycle. Okay, they cannot stand anyone not thinking, feeling, believing, agreeing with everything they think, feel, believe, and agree with. And when somebody breaks out of the mold, it is akin to them to treason. Think of it that way. So, when the children break out of those familial cubicles that they’ve been shoved into it, it’s chaos. It’s chaos, because the abuser feels, what’s the word I’m looking for? Well, they don’t feel they don’t process emotions the way we do, but their sense and their need for revenge is pretty intense. So when the golden child’s rejects them, and says, Nope, I am not you. I do like mac and cheese. I know you don’t, but I do, you know, I am not going to go be whatever it is you want me to be. That’s the other thing is they’ll force the like, Okay, let me just let me let me use my screwed up family as an example. So in my family, there were eight generations of attorneys not not a coincidence, also eight generations of alcoholics. So every single generation demanded that the oldest son become an attorney, and it went all the way down to my dad. And he insisted, and, you know, my grandfather insisted that my dad become an attorney, my dad didn’t want to become an attorney, he wanted to become an opera singer. That was his big passion in life was singing. So of course, he was disordered, like nobody’s business. So he went ahead and became an attorney and hated it, hated it, his entire life hated being an attorney, hated what he did, hated going into the office, hated everything, he was really not a fun person to be around. So but this is, what abusers do is that they demand that the golden child take over the family business, or take over whatever role the abuser had, you know, and, and my grandfather was very much you know, here’s the Attorneys at Law and son, you know, it’s like, okay, dude, whatever.

Kris Godinez  12:53

So it’s very much a forcing their wants, their needs, their desires, their everything onto the golden child. And, you know, the kid may not want that at all. And if they don’t have enough self-esteem, or outside influence, to stand up to that parent, they end up doing everything that the abuser wants them to do. And they’re miserable, just like the abuser. So remember, abusers don’t want anybody to be happy ever, not on this or any other planet Earth. So how it affects the child is able to get help and recognize what’s going on and break out of that pattern is that they are then shunned by the abuser. And it’s painful and, and the abuser will keep trying to drag them back into the family craziness. So they’ll they’ll try, you know, reaching out to them and doing the Hoover and oh, I’m dying and oh, this than the other thing and why don’t you come back into the fold? It’s very Stepford wife ish. You know, it’s like, Come, let’s go play, shall we, you know, that kind of thing. It’s really creepy. So they keep trying to drag the golden child back into the role.

So or the scapegoat when the scapegoat breaks out and gives the middle finger and says, That’s it. I’m done. I’m enough scapegoat of I’m not playing, I’m going no contact, low contact, whatever. The abuser will try to drag the kids back into that role. And they’ll gather the flying monkeys to force the kids back into those particular family rules. Now, when you’re dealing with a really messed up family, you’re going to have second dad, second mom, you’re going to have second spouse. So yeah, the incest stuff. So it’s really, abusers are sick and they’re evil and it’s intentional. And everything they do is with intention, how it feeds their ego, how it feeds their needs. They don’t really.

So to the other kids, it looks like the golden child is getting the better deal. It does because the golden child is good. Seeing everything so and this often plays out, especially when there is the death of the abuser and you’re having to do the estate and oh, look, the golden child got everything. This often plays out that way. But in reality, yes, they may be getting getting material stuff, they absolutely probably are. But the reality of it is, if they’re disordered themselves, if they never go get help, I can guarantee you, they’re not happy. And they will fight over every single last thing. So even though they’ve gotten the lion’s share of the estate or whatever, they will still, kid you not, demand more, they will, you know, whatever little things the rest of the family was able to get out of that inheritance.

Kris Godinez  15:34

If there was anything, the golden child will then try to take that as well. It’s never enough, guys, it’s never enough. There’s like this. In these family systems. There’s like these seething black holes of absolute self-hatred, that never get filled. And if there’s, if there’s no therapy going on, if this person if this golden child has worked on themselves, if the middle child hasn’t worked on themselves, if the younger child hasn’t worked on themselves, and the scapegoat hasn’t worked on themselves at the comedian hasn’t worked on themselves, there’s going to be all of this drama about the inheritance because the golden child is making sure that they’re getting theirs, you know, that kind of thing. And really, you kind of have to be able to step back and go, it’s just stuff. It’s just stuff, it doesn’t matter if it’s going to, if this is going to create this drama triangle going on for years and years and years, no, thank you, it’s not worth it. So that’s what the golden child will do. If they’re if they don’t get help.

They lord it over the other kids, they become the abuser, so the abuser dies. And guess who’s the next abuser, it’s the golden child, if they haven’t gotten help, if they don’t have empathy, if they don’t have sympathy or ability to feel or whatever, they’re just like their abuser, then they are going to then become the abuser. However, like I said, if they have empathy, and they recognize how screwed up this is, that they’re getting all the good stuff, and the rest of their siblings are being punished, or ignored, or, you know, not taken care of, or not encouraged, not supported, whatever, because I mean, this goes for everything. It’s not just material stuff, all of the support goes to the golden child, all of the encouragement goes to the golden child, everybody else is less than. So if the golden child gets help, and recognizes that this isn’t cool, they can work on this stuff. And they can step out of the Drama Triangle, which is the villain, the victim and the hero, remember, so in the in the abusers eyes, they’re always the hero. Somebody is the victim. And you know, the other kids are the villain. So and so that’s what they do. They play this sick game of chess with the kids and they set them up against each other. That’s the intention because honestly, if the kids united, the abuser would have no power.

Kris Godinez  18:10

Because nobody would be playing the game, everybody would be like, Nope, I am not going up against my brother, I am not going up against my sister, I am not going to play your game. This is not happening. And that’s the last thing they want. That’s why they always, always divide and conquer. And this is why they shove one kid into the golden child roll one kid into the scapegoat, roll one into the ignored roll one into the comedian roll. And for the really screwed up families, the second dads second mom’s second spouse, you know that whole thing because they want to create division. They want to have infighting, so everyone is focused on the golden child and how awful they are, as opposed to taking a look at the narcissistic parent and going w t f dude or dudette? What are you doing? You know, because they don’t want that they don’t want the attention focused on them.

So okay, so how can a golden child get help? So first of all, they would need to recognize what’s going on? It doesn’t happen. Yes, it does. But usually not until they’re adults. Because if they’re in the system, and the mom or the dad is continually feeding them the BS, right? It’s hard for them to see what’s really going on. Now, if there is empathy there, and they’re able to listen to their siblings and kind of figure out oh, this, you know, this is not fair. This is not good. And get help get with a therapist, a trauma therapist. So here’s the thing that we need to understand. Even though the golden child is getting everything they could possibly want. It’s still trauma. It’s still trauma because it’s at the expense of siblings. And it’s a game playing, it’s a manipulation. It’s it’s still harm. It doesn’t look like harm, but it’s still harm. So The golden child will need to get into a trauma therapist absofreakinglutely! Amends are going to have to be made, if they did things at the behest of the abuser, then they’re going to need to talk to the other siblings and, and really apologize and take responsibility and repair those relationships, and then stop having contact with the abuser because the abuser will never change, the abuser will never change. So if the golden child has got enough empathy, and is willing to work on the childhood issues that created this whole thing, because of the abuser, then the the rest of the siblings if they too, are willing to get to a trauma therapist and work on their stuff, and be open and honest, and that golden child’s open and honest and they’re not communicating with the abuser, then you can repair that family system.

If, however, the golden child is not just fleas, and they are narcissistically disordered themselves, or they are completely, you know, chronically toxic, borderline down at the far end, if they’re a dark triad, if they’ve got antisocial stuff going on. No, you cannot help them. You cannot. And the best thing to do with a golden child that is that way, that is a dark triad themselves is you cut them off. You just cut them off. You do. It’s really funny. I’ve had several people post Oh, well, you know, that’s, that’s just so mean cutting people off. No, it’s not. It’s a boundary. It’s a it’s a wall of No. And it’s I’m not going to put up with this. If you want to fight over every last fork from the estate, that’s up to you. I’m out. It’s not worth it. So it’s self-preservation. And a lot of times what I see are narcissists, or flying monkeys are the ones that tell you Oh, no, you can’t cut people off. Oh, no, well, what if they change? Well, if you’ve read all the books that I recommend, you’ll know that if they are truly narcissistic personality disorder, they don’t change. And once they are malignant, they don’t change, they absolutely don’t. So it’s really it can happen. Like I said, if there is empathy present if they are working on themselves, and if they have a trauma therapist to go through and see how unfair all of these things were to them as and it does happen, it really does happen. And like I said, if the abuser is still alive, they will continue to try to sucker them back in with bigger and bigger payoffs.

So say, for example, the golden child peaced out right, they figured it out, they got a therapist they peaced out, then what the abuser will do is Oh, but I’ll give you this, and it’ll be a bigger and bigger payout, trying to get the back end because that’s what they would respond to. So remember, anytime an abuser does anything, it’s because that’s what they would do. So if they’re… because they project, right, so for them, if somebody offered them a car, or a house or a ridiculous amount of money, they would run right back and grab it, because that’s who they are, not who the kids are. So remember, everything that comes out of the abusers mouth is a projection. And when the golden child leaves, they really get punished hard by the abuser because the abuser can’t stand it that they’re not falling for their, you know, their bribes. Basically, they’re bribing them, they’re trying to bribe them to come back into the fold, and to continue to be the mini me and think the way they do and punish the other kids and all of this stuff.

If you’re one of the other kids and you recognize this stuff going on, it’s a Drama Triangle, again, the villain, the victim and the hero. So you step out, step out, you do not have to play just because if you were not related to these people, would you have literally anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly, and then get with a good trauma therapist to work through the sadness.

So when we cut off a sibling that is harmful and hurtful, let’s say the golden child was just being a complete jackwagon. Right? They’re not going to change, they’re not interested, they’re not going to therapy, there’s no empathy there. There’s, they’re toeing the line of the abuser, your only option is to get out, your only option is to cut them off and not deal with their BS because they’re just going to continue to shove you into that box and continue to abuse you on behalf of the abuser. It’s abuse by proxy. So that’s what abusers use flying monkeys or the golden child to hurt the other kids. So if a sibling is doing that, and they’re not getting it and they’re not changing, and they’re not getting help, and they’re not going to therapy, all of that stuff. You have the right to stop. You have the right to be like you know what, if I was not related to this person, I would have nothing to do with them. Hmm, there’s an idea block be done. And then you’re going to deal with your trauma therapist about the screwed up sibling relationships that you guys all had.

So in my family, my oldest sister was the golden child. I was the comedian. You know, my middle sister was ignored. My other middle sister was ignored. My brother was the black sheep like nobody’s business, you know, and it really screwed with those relationships. It wasn’t until the last five years that Nancy and I middle child, were able to reconnect and discover how much alike we are, which was truly mind blowing. I mean, she loves dogs. I love dogs. She loves collies, I love collies, you know, it’s like, oh, my god, yeah, when she has a lot of the same thing she likes I like it just it was really funny. She was like, very similar to me. And it’s, I’m sad that we didn’t have a relationship prior to that, because the abuser made sure we didn’t have a relationship. Again, my dad did not want us on a united front, he did not want us to get together and talk and compare notes. And that’s exactly what we did, is we got together and we talked, and we compared notes, and we realized how screwed up the situation was, for us, for our brother, for the sisters. You know, it’s like, it’s not fair to the entire family. So it’s hard to have sympathy, I think, or empathy for the golden child, because it seems so unfair.

Kris Godinez  26:26

And it is. But you have to understand that kid did not pop out of the womb going, Hey, I want to be the favorite. Hey, I want to have everything hey, I want to be the mini you. The narcissist decided that the abuser decided that so does that mean you have to be around them no, if the golden child is not getting help and is still abusive? No, you cut them off, you’d be done, be done, be done. If however, they’re getting help, my suggestion is family therapy for the siblings to come together, compare notes, work things out, see if the relationship can be repaired if it can, if it’s clearly a no, you don’t go to therapy with somebody who acts just like the abuser, you’ve got to make sure that they are actually sincere, and they are willing to work on themselves and that they actually have empathy. That’s because if they’re abusive, do not go to therapy with them. Do not go to therapy with them, do not go to therapy, do not do not, do not… listen to me now, believe me later. If they are abusive, do not go to therapy with them. If they have had an awakening, if they are if they do have empathy, if they take responsibility for their behavior, and they want to repair the relationship great. But if there’s drama that comes out of that, hell no. That’s when you tell them point blank. It’s like Look, dude, or dudette. If there’s drama coming out of this, I’m not interested. If you want to repair the relationship, you want to be real, great. But if any of this stuff starts family stuff, peace out, I’m gone. So there that is okay. I hope that that answered questions about the golden child.

And you don’t have to be a mini me that’s the thing is that the kids feel compelled to be exactly like the parent because if you not if you’re not, they’ll punish. That’s what they do. So okay, let’s get to the questions. I’ve gone over a bit. Okay.

Okay, how do I stop thinking about a girl I’ve lost contact with two years ago? Okay, kind of off topic, but okay. Um, so what we tend to do, is we obsess, and we do the whole, oh, what if? What if, what if, what if, what if, whatever, well, you’re living in a future that has not happened. You know, so depression is when we live in the past, anxiety is when we live in the future, that has not happened. And it causes us to not live in the present moment. So again, when you’re finding yourself obsessing over someone, whether it’s the abusive ex, somebody you lost contact with, whatever, you know, it’s kind of like, here comes the thought, Okay, well, that’s a fascinating thought. Thank you for playing, um, you are not valid, because I haven’t talked to you in two years. Bye let it go. Let it go. It’s thought stopping. So you acknowledge the thought, yeah, there’s a part of me that would really love to get back in touch with them. But then there’s another part of me that knows, you know, okay. It’s not happening. And okay, thank you. Yeah. If we run into each other sometime in the future, great, if not great. Okay. Thank you thought, bye, bye. And you stay in the present moment. This is where I think a lot of kids that have been raised by narcissists and borderlines the malignant ones, really have a hard time coping with staying in the present moment because the abuser forces us to live in what if, or they force us to live in the past with the shame. So, and this is how abusers use that, so abusers use the shame to keep us stuck in the past. They also use the well you know, if you do what I want you to do dangling the inheritance, right? If you behave this way, then I’ll do this is for you… so they have us living in this future or this past. So, if you find yourself doing the future or the past you got to stop and be like okay, I’m gonna live in the here and the now what is going on right here right now? How is this thought about this person I lost contact with distracting me from what’s happening here now? This is a distraction it’s a distraction you know what’s going on in the here and now that you’re trying to avoid that’s something to think about because if your mind is filled with this past stuff, it’s like what is that about? What are you What are you distracting yourself from in the here now? So get with a good therapist, obviously that’s always going to be my first thing get with a good therapist figure out what the obsession is about figuring out what you’re avoiding. What are you avoiding? You know, thoughts stopping hi thought that was a fascinating guy. Yeah, I’d love to see that again and not gonna happen. All right, have a nice life. Bye, bye. Buh bye now what’s going on in there in the now and then go do that. Okay, let’s get to the next question.

Can a golden child turn on the narc and abuse the narc itself and take over the role as major narc to the rest of the family? Yes, they absolutely.

Kris Godinez  31:17

Yeah, they absolutely can. So again, nature, nurture, nature, nurture. If the person is born without empathy, they become addicted to the power and the control. And when the narcissist becomes older, you see this a lot, especially in geriatric situation. So, the abuser becomes older and then suddenly the favorite child is now running the show, has taken over the role of the abuser especially if they have no empathy and they are narcissistically personality disordered, you know, and they turn and start doing all the things that the abuser did to the rest of the family. Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely can happen. I mean, again, nature nurture. So, nature sets people up with no empathy, right? And nurture pushes them over the edge. So, if they had no empathy to begin with, and then the narcissist is training them grooming them to become a mini me, and then the narcissist gets old. And it’s kind of like the Lion King. You know, it’s like, Scar, just looking for an opportunity to take over kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So remember, narcissistic personality disorder, the age old question, is it nature? Is it nurture? I think it’s both. I think they’re born without empathy, and then how they are raised pushes them right over the edge. And yes, they can do that. So the golden the golden child can absolutely become the next abuser, which is why when you recognize they are disordered, they are getting off on the power and the control, they are enjoying bossing the other siblings around or making them feel bad or withholding inheritance or whatever it is that they do. Then you just peace out. You’re just like, Okay, I see you. I see what you’re doing there… not interested. Have a nice life. Goodbye. Buh bye bye now. Because there’s no point, you know, it’s like, all you would be doing is keeping the game going. And that’s what they want. And, and I get this question a lot. It’s like, How do I stop them? Well, you can’t, they’re gonna do and think and say, whatever they’re going to do and think and say the only thing you can do is get the hell away and go live your life and be happy and not allow them. Don’t hand your power to them. And I see a lot of people unfortunately, handing power over to the golden child or handing power over to the parent because of the fear of missing out on the inheritance or missing out on something that they could get. It’s like it’s not worth it. I’ve talked about this before it honest to God is not worth it. It’s not theirs. There’s not anything any of them could offer me that would make make it worth having to deal with their crazy chaotic, dramatic, nasty nastiness. That’s yeah, there’s no thank you. No, no, thank you. Life is too short. I’d rather hang out with people that I love and that love me. So yeah, so there’s that. Okay. Hope that answered the question.

Okay. Um, my ex was great to our two children until they were about five. Yep. And then they couldn’t do anything, right. How do I help them? Why do they do that? Okay, so this is insanely common. So, what about age five? Is where kids if you if you look at child development, right? About age five is where kids really start coming into their own and if you’re a healthy parent, you’re thrilled because it’s like, they’re getting their personality and they’re getting, you know, they know what they want, and they know what they don’t want. And they’re doing their own thing and they’re making their own friends and they’re deciding what they want to do. And you know, it’s a, it’s a fun time if you’re a healthy parent, because you’re like, Yay, you’re developing you. That’s awesome. narcissists do not, do not they will. They love it when the kids are babies, because the babies are silent, or don’t talk back, or haven’t learned the word no, or whatever, they love the babies, at about age five is when the Narcissus cut them off, because the kids are no longer malleable. They say no, they don’t do automatic compliance with whatever the abuser wants or thinks that they want. So yeah, at about age five is when they do that. So my suggestion would be to get them into a play therapist, and work on self-esteem, because they are going to be affected by this.

Kris Godinez  36:04

Because parents healthy parents mirror to their child, how much they love them, and how great they are and how awesome they are. When a parent rejects the child, and this is male or female parent, this is male or female narcissist doesn’t matter. So when they reject that kid, it’s going to have an impact. So the way to help them as you just keep pointing out, has nothing to do with you little one has nothing to do with you has everything to do with mom or dad, whoever that rejecting parent is, is not about you, it’s about them. It’s not about you, it’s about them. So you help them see that whatever the parent is doing is about them. Because remember, kids are very, very egocentric. And I don’t mean that in a narcissistic way, kids have got a lot of magic thinking. And so when things, when bad things happen, they automatically assume that it’s something they did, or something they didn’t do, or it’s about them. And it’s not and they haven’t quite reached that level of maturity level or that brain development yet where they can see that not everything is because of them. So it’s really important to keep the separation going. It’s not about you, sweetie, whatever Mom or Dad is doing speaks volumes about them. And it says nothing about you, you are wonderful child, you are great to be around. This person has got issues. And you can say that, you know, and I would also get them into a play therapist, I really would sand tray therapy is great. play therapy is great. Have them color, have them start working on self-esteem, it’s never too soon, or too late to start working on self-esteem. So what I would do is mirror work in the morning, have them do that with you. Hi, good morning, good to see you have a great day, you know what you are loved, and then walk out and have them do that every morning, every morning with you, it’s going to help you it’s going to help them it’s going to help you it’s going to help them. This is why you want to do that. So you want to work on the self-esteem because what the abuser is now doing is recognizing that the kids are not like them. And they’re not just going to automatically you know, when they say jump, the kids are not going to say how high they’re gonna be like, why? You know, and abusers don’t like that. So yeah, it’s abusers are so weird.

So in custody battles, they do one of two things, they either fight to get control of those kids and want them to be mini mes and do it to hurt the other parent are they absolutely hands off want nothing to do with the kids, they go and find a new supply. They start a second family and their first family is like they never existed. That would be the best option. Oh, honest to God, I know that there’s a lot of people that are like but but but the kids need their dad will no their kids need a sane dad, they don’t need a disordered dad who’s messing intermittent positive rewards with their little minds. So if they decide to have nothing to do with them, Count yourself lucky. And get those kids into therapy and start working on their self-esteem. Make sure that they understand that they are loved and it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with that other parent. So yeah, it’s weird. It’s like, like I said, there’s no in between. It’s like they either want to use the kids as pawns to hurt the other person. Or they’re so wrapped up in their new family that the first family like disappears. And that’s what happened with my sister, my brother is it my dad married my mom started a family with my mom. And all of those kids just poof, you know, nonexistent, you know, and it was all about us. And I’m just like, and of course, he was abusing us too, because he told douchebag but you know what I’m saying? And so, in a way, that’s a better scenario. And my sister Nancy and I were talking about that I’m like, you know, in a way you’re really lucky because you did not have to deal with him. And she’s like, Yeah, I know. It’s In a way, it was a better situation for me because I wasn’t having to be, you know, on guard. And you know, because he molested all of us. So he’s just not a nice guy. But you know what I’m saying. So it’s really, it’s almost a better scenario that the abuser goes to that second family and leaves the original family alone, because now the kids can work on healing and getting into therapy, and you know, that whole thing. So, yeah, it’s weird. It’s weird that they do that, because the kids are now saying, No, the kids are developing their own personality, and the abuser doesn’t like that the abuser wants to be able to manipulate and control and once the abuser realizes, wait a minute, the kids got their own personality, they’re not just going to automatically comply. They leave, in some cases, that best case scenario, best case scenario, totally.

Kris Godinez  40:46

If that, if that’s what they do. Let them let them, let them go. Seriously, the kid does not need that. It’s too confusing for the kid. You know, it’s that come here, go away, come here, go away, come here, go away. Intermittent positive rewards. You don’t want them doing that to the kid. So get them into a good play therapist. Self-esteem, work on self-esteem, mere work, kids love the mirror work, because you know, it’s fun, make it a game, make it a game, go on to Amazon and find self-esteem books for kids coloring books, or whatever age appropriate. They’re on Amazon. And they’re there. They’re there for like all different age ranges. So there’s some for teenagers, there are some for you know, preteens, there are some for little ones, there’s, you know, so go find self-esteem books age appropriate. And yes, they do that they absolutely do. And it’s because they recognize that this little being over here is developing their own personality and is able to say no, and will defy them, you know, and they don’t like that. So yeah, there that is. Okay, I’m gonna answer that. And just make sure you tell the kids it’s not them. Because it’s not it’s it has everything to do with the abuser, nothing to do with them.

Okay, I’m the oldest of eight, and our parents pit us against each other. They had a lot of switching roles on us one day, he was the favorite. And then sometimes not. Is that typical with narcissistic parents? Yes. Oh, my good God. Yes. So what you will see is that abusers will, depending on Okay, so if the golden child does have a conscience, and stands up to the abuser, guess what’s going to happen, they’re no longer going to be the golden child. So they’ll get shunted to black sheep. And then whoever is the golden child, next, whoever the abuser decides, and sometimes it’s not even a family member, sometimes they’ll go for total strangers, you know, the kid down the street, oh, that’s my child, because they respect me, blah, blah, blah. You know, they do that kind of thing, too. So yes, so my sister got put into the role of golden child. And as soon as she figured out how exactly crazy my dad was, she stepped out of that role. And she started, you know, really working on herself, and she started helping us and she, you know, and as soon as she pissed off my dad, well, boom, somebody else is the golden child. And then as soon as they pissed off my dad, well, then boom, the next one is the golden child. And then boom, the next one is the golden child, and then boom, here’s my sister back to being the golden child. You know, it’s crazy. It’s crazy. Making is crazy making, but they do it on purpose. They do it on purpose, it’s to keep everybody off balance. And it’s to keep everybody in the hope that someday, miraculously, they will be the golden child and stay there. Think about it, how old do you feel when you wish you could have been the golden child? Pretty itty bitty. So really, it’s important to get with a good therapist and start working through all the conflicting feelings. You know, because there was a lot of anger and resentment towards my older sister when she was doing the golden child thing, you know, and then when she got punted off, and then the next kid got put up there, it was like, Whoa, this is weird, because that person was the scapegoat. So how’s that work? And you know, it’s it just lots of weird stuff. So I would say get with a good good trauma therapist, really work through the conflicting emotions about the siblings and things like that. And really decide whether or not you want to have relationships with any of them, or all of them. Oh, you know, or whatever. And yes, they do change the rules up and it’s a way to keep everybody off balance, and it’s a way to keep the kids and hope that someday there’ll be the golden child. Absolutely. It’s crazy. Go nuts. Okay.

Um, okay. As a golden child, I find I have unrealistic expectations of being perfect.

Kris Godinez  44:51

How do I get over this feeling that everything has to be perfect? First of all, my condolences that you got shoved into that role. Second of all, feeling the need needed to be perfect, especially for the golden child. I mean, this is kind of for everybody, but especially for the golden child. It’s maddening because nobody’s perfect. Nobody’s where we don’t walk on water unless it’s frozen, you know, but the golden child and the other kids often get I mean, even though I wasn’t the golden child, I still got that you must be perfect. You must be perfect, you cannot screw up you dadadadada. And it’s a very and of course, my dad was an addict, too. So that’s it’s not only a narcissistic trait, it’s also an addict trait to demand that everybody around them must be perfect. must walk on water must be holier than holy must be, you know, whatever. And it’s an unrealistic thing that gets shoved onto the kids. And then what happens is the kids get trapped in analysis paralysis. Oh my god, is this going to be good enough? Oh my god. Am I making the right choice? Oh, my God, I have to be perfect. No, no, you don’t. So my recommendation would be to write and burn a go pound sand letter to the being perfect. You can make it to the abuser you can make it to the being perfect. You can whatever. Dear abuser dear needing to be perfect. Guess what? Bleep Bleep Bleep Bleep Bleep at a bleeping BLEEP you I am not perfect. I do not walk on water. Unless it’s frozen. I have the right to make mistakes, because that’s how humans learn seriously. So how do babies learn to walk, they fall down. That’s how they learn balance. And if you never allow them to make a mistake, they don’t learn. Right? They get delayed in being able to balance. So you’ve got to be able to be gentle with yourself for give yourself screw the abuser. Forgive yourself. Okay, you don’t have to be perfect. It’s okay. So when you’re doing the mirror work, we’re going to be dealing with that inner child, I would strongly suggest either the Luccia Cappichoni inner child book, The coloring book thing, or the Catherine Taylor one, or whichever inner child workbook you liked. Go do that. Because you’re dealing with that inner child that got that mistaken thoughts, mistaken belief that you had to be perfect. You don’t. You don’t we all make mistakes we do that is part of being human. If we were perfect, we would not need to be on this planet. So we’re going to make mistakes, mistakes are going to happen. You’ve got to forgive yourself. And you’ve got to allow it. It’s like, okay, I’m doing this to thing. Mistakes are probably going to happen. And it’s okay because that’s how I learn. So when you’re doing them your mirror work, hi, good to see you have a great day. You know what, you don’t have to be perfect. I give you permission to make mistakes and learn from them. It’s Oh, Kay. And I can hear that internal critic going. Oh, I have to be perfect! Thank you for your input. Shut the bleep up. Why? Because I say so you say so. I say so. It’s okay for me to be human. It’s okay for me to make mistakes, as long as I’ve learned from them, and don’t keep repeating them. So Shush, boop, go pound sand bye now bye, you know, that type of thing and write and burn the letter to the abuser to the perfectness that, hey, you know what? I’m not a designated saint. I get to make mistakes. Thank you. So yeah, that is a common one. And they do it. Because they know on some level, they’re not perfect, although they’ll never admitted. And they demand that everybody around them be perfect because it mirrors to them how perfect they are in their own crazy way of thinking. And the same thing with addicts too addicts do the same thing. Everybody has to be perfect around the How dare you make a mistake? Because it reminds them of how they’re not perfect. And they can’t stand that because in their mind, they’re god. So yeah, that’s why they put that perfection thing and you’re gonna have to settle for good enough. Good enough. So when you get that it has to be perfect. That’s analysis paralysis. Is it good enough? Oh, great. It is settled for that. It’s okay. It’s good enough. Okay. Doesn’t have to be perfect, just good enough. And that’s something I strongly suggest you work on with a therapist because that’s a really tough one to untie and let go because there’s always that internal critic going. No, no, no, no, no, it has to be perfect! It has to be perfect! It has to….. No it doesn’t! Thank you for playing bye bye. Why? Because I say so I can be good enough. And it’s gonna feel weird. The first few times you do that you’re gonna be like, Oh my goodness. Allow it. allow, allow, allow and anyone who bags on you for good enough probably needs to be out of your life.

Kris Godinez  49:49

So get with a good trauma therapist start working on that. Okay, let’s see. Um, okay.

Is it possible to be a golden child When you’re the only child? This is the thing about only children is that they get shoved into all the roles. So, there’ll be the golden child, and then the parent will get ticked off at them. And then suddenly they’re the black sheep, or they’re ignored, or they’re, you know, whatever. So, yes, yes, it can happen being an only child. Absolutely. And that need for, you know, that one only child to be perfect. It’s so it’s not fair to the kids, it really isn’t. It drives me crazy. Because these kids, they get this i You have to be perfect. You’re the golden child, you’re carrying on the family, whatever. There’s so much pressure put on them to not be themselves. You know, the kids are never allowed to make mistakes. The kids are never allowed to be themselves to pick what they want to whatever. And it’s not fair. Kids, kids need to explore kids need to play, kids need to have fun. Kids need to figure out who they are separate from the parents. So yeah, as an only child, I think it’s kind of a double whammy. Because it’s like, you don’t have the siblings to kind of, you know, balance out the weirdness kind of thing. And it’s like, it’s all on you. Which sucks. So get with a good trauma therapist, work on separating, work on who you are, and giving yourself permission to not be perfect and permission to not be the golden child. And yeah, absolutely. Parents who are healthy don’t shove their kid into little stereotypical boxes, parents who are disordered do, because they can’t cope with reality, you know, change, differing opinions, etc, etc, etc. And when you have kids it is nothing but differing opinions and different realities. And learning who they are, and it’s fantastic. And it’s it’s sad that the abusers don’t allow it. Because the kids need that, the kids need the freedom to find out who they are separate from the parents. So yeah, Um okay.

How are more people not ending contact with a family when they grew up? When over 40% get abused physically, even if they are continually oppressed to never expose it. They could leave. Okay, so here’s the deal. It is insanely difficult, leaving an abusive relationship. If it was easy, I would be in a different form of therapy practice. Seriously, it is insanely difficult, because you’ve got the gaslighting, you’ve got the lying, you’ve got the rewriting history, you’ve got the physical abuse, sexual abuse, in some case, emotional abuse all the time. You’ve got the game playing. You’ve got the flying monkeys, you’ve got maybe the spouse of the abuser telling you Oh, no, it’s not that bad. Oh, no, no, no, you don’t see the pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room. No, no, no, no, that’s not happening. Oh, you know, so it is insanely difficult to leave. For me. It was also insanely difficult to leave. What finally did it for me is my dad kept frickin hitting me and I got sick and tired of being his punching bag. You know, and I finally at 17 was like, You know what, screw this noise, peace out. I’ll figure it out. You know. So it is insanely difficult to leave. And there is a reason why it’s hard is because it is. What’s the word I’m looking for… brainwashing they brain wash us that we’re wrong. And they’re normal. I mean, I love my mom. I do. But she had her issues. And she would continually tell me Well, every family is like ours. No, they’re not. No, they’re not. You know, and so dad would do something heinous. Oh, well, no. Every family is like ours. Every family has dirty laundry. Everyone…. No, no, sweetheart, they don’t. So it’s hard to leave when you’re being brainwashed and you’re being told to question your reality. And your reality is that you see the pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room and yet you’ve got your mom or your dad or cousins or aunts or uncles or whatever going up. You don’t see that pink elephant. There’s no pink elephant.

Kris Godinez  54:27

You know? And then when you do leave, look at all the flying monkeys that come flying around and going. Well, you know, they are your parent. They did give birth to you and you should stay in touch. I want to slap therapy for those mother Cluckers swear to God, it’s like no, no, you do not need to stay in contact with an abuser if you’ve gone no contact, stay no contact. Why? Because if you go back into that system, the abuse will be worse. It will be. So, leaving abuse is not easy. It’s not like, you know, if every abused person could just suddenly wake up and go, Yeah, I’m done and walk out. That would be great. freaking love that that’d be done frickin retire and go open a bed and breakfast/wedding venue, somewhere in a Victorian, probably in the south, I don’t know. Anyway, the point being, is that if it was super easy, everybody would do it. It’s not. And it’s not easy, because you’re dealing not only with a lying, the cheating, the stealing the gaslighting, the brainwashing the flying monkeys, you’re dealing with the inner child, you are dealing with an inner child, how old were you when you started getting abused, and that inner child desperately wants to have the family work. And this is why a lot of people find themselves sabotaging their efforts to get out of the abusive relationship, whether that was a familial abusive relationship or whether a good Lord! I’ve gone over, or whether that was a romantic abusive relationship, because that inner child. Look I just, I want them to love me. And I want them to be nice. And I want them to behave and I want them to be normal. So you’re dealing with that inner child that’s going but but but but but and it prevents people from leaving, and then they tell the abuser everything they’re doing in the hopes that the abuser is going to have an epiphany and be like, Oh, you’re right. I’ve been horrible to you, I need to stop that. It doesn’t happen. They may say it, they can say beautiful, pretty words. They don’t believe it. They don’t, they won’t change, they won’t suddenly become the parent you’ve always wanted. You know, they’ll do it for a small amount of time, just enough to get you hooked back into the system. And then as soon as you’re back into the system, I’ll give you three guesses what happens in the first two don’t count. So they’ll start all over again. They’ll start the cycle the abuse cycle all over again. So why is it so difficult to leave? Because the inner child is fighting to stay so that mommy and daddy will behave and mommy and daddy will love them. Or if it’s romantic relationship? Why can’t they see how great I am? Why can’t they love me? Same thing but it’s just being projected onto a romantic partner. So this is why and this and this is gonna be the last question because I am losing my voice and b I’ve gone over time and I’ve got to go meet with Susanna so this is why we’re working the workbooks is so hugely important. The inner child workbook either by Katherine Taylor or Lucia Cappachione Okay, the disease to please Harry breaker work on those boundaries. Okay, that’s codependency CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker dealing with all of the mistaken thoughts, all of the mistaken beliefs that got shoved into your head and you know, rebuking them and sending them back right. Okay, missing one, the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, or you are a badass by Jen Sincero I don’t care get whatever self-esteem workbook floats your boat. All right, my love’s you guys go be awesome. Have a great day it is going to be 100 and frickin seven here in Phoenix. So drink plenty of water if you’re local. Plenty of water, take good care of yourself. wear your sunscreen, your hat, all that sort of good stuff. All right. Talk to you guys later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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