Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

I wanted to do a little public service announcement. Please go to my we need to have fun with Kris Godinez on YouTube, and please watch the video I did about avoiding Disney at all costs. So, we just spent three days at Disney celebrating John’s birthday. And it was a disaster. I’ve never had such a bad time in all my life at Disney ever. And I’ve been going since 1970 Since I was five years old. So um, you know, it just it really left a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve sent a letter to Bob Chapek. I’ve sent a letter to Robert Iger. And go watch my video because I don’t think you should be spending huge amounts of money if they’re going to be treating people as poorly as we were treated. So please go to go to my we need to have fun with Kris Godinez on YouTube and it’s Avoid Disney At All Costs. So, there you go. It was the cast members were rude. The lines were two-plus hours. It was a disaster. It was just, it was not the Disney Magic that I am used to and that I know and love. The lightning lane is prohibitive. It’s expensive. And I didn’t do it because I’m just like this was free. This was Fastpass. And the way they’ve got it set up now the lines are two-plus hours. And I’m sitting here watching the little kids standing in these lines for two-plus hours. And they’re miserable. And they’re hot, and they’re tired. And it’s not fair. And it’s not what Walt Disney had in mind. So, I’m very angry at the way that the parks are being run. So, And honestly, the arrogance and the nastiness and the lack of response because I wrote a letter to Guest Services first. didn’t hear from them. Oh, we’re having a large volume of calls and, and emails right now. Well, gee, I wonder why it’s probably because people are angry. So um, yeah. So breathtaking. And you know, I only use the term breathtaking when I’m dealing with somebody who I know is arrogant. You know what I’m saying? So, yeah, so go, go take a listen to avoid Disney at all cost. And you’re going to hear exactly what happened while we were there. So, I had a much better time in Santa Barbara with my sister and her dog. So yes, go to Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara is awesome. I love Santa Barbara. So anyway, there’s that so just wanted to let you guys know, because you know how big of a Disney fan I am. And for me to be like don’t go that’s saying something. So anyway. People are taking loans out to do these trips. I’m sorry, it just, if they’re going to treat people like that it’s not right. It’s not fair. It’s not ethical. It’s it’s no, not not. Okay. So anyway, go to we need to have fun with Kris Godinez. And you can hear the whole rant that I did, which is kind of like this rant that I did. But with details. So anyway, okay. Let’s dive into and by the way, Andy, please do leave that rant in for the podcast because I do want as many people as possible to hear that.

So anyway, um, okay. All right. So where was I? Alright, so apologizing, stop apologizing. Why do we apologize? Why do we over apologize? Why are we constantly saying I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. So, we get trained to apologize. It is part of codependency. So, think about it. If we have a parent, a parental unit that is constantly making us wrong, and constantly telling us that we’re bad and wrong and not good enough and all of that. We start trying to figure out ways to make them happy. And one of the ways that seems to make disordered parents happy is to constantly be going I’m sorry, my fault. Mia culpa, Mia culpa, mea maxima culpa. So, remember, narcissists don’t take responsibility for anything. And narcissistic parents don’t take responsibility for anything and narcissistic lovers don’t take responsibility for anything. And so they’re always going, it’s you, it’s you.

Kris Godinez  05:02

It’s you. It’s you. It’s you. It’s you, it’s you. And so we start believing that, especially as little kids, because you know, when an adult says it’s you, right, the you, you, you, you, you guns, right? We believe them, we believe them because we are told to look up to our elders and to respect our elders and to believe that they have our best interest at heart, which narcissistic parents don’t. And a narcissistic parent will never take responsibility for anything they’ve ever done. They’ll flip the script and they’ll make you think that you are the problem. Narcissistic lovers, same thing, flip the script and make you think that you are the problem.

So, if we have come from a narcissistic family or a disordered family, we very quickly learn that people-pleasing thing have shut up Crow, there’s any anyway, we very quickly learned that people-pleasing thing of of apologize, apologize, apologize, get back on their good side, get back on to their good graces, okay. And it’s the people-pleasing because we’re trying to appease that adult, that parent that that lover that whatever, and get back on their good side. So, if we just take the blame, then maybe they’ll be nice to us. Maybe they’ll be kind to us, maybe they’ll you know, whatever. And it never works. So, what ends up happening is, as kids, we get groomed, we get trained to constantly apologize and constantly apologize for things that we don’t need to be apologizing for. So, for example, we apologize for taking up space, how many of us, when we need to ask a question, or we need to get around somebody, or we need to whatever we go, Oh, I’m sorry. I’m so sorry, I hate to bother you. Or, gosh, I’m really sorry, you know, pardon me, can we can I just get around, you know, and you don’t need to apologize for that. You just say excuse me, I need to get around you, right, because you have a right to take up space. And I think this is something that targets of abuse don’t really think about when we’re healing, at least in the beginning stages, we don’t realize that we’ve been told not to take up space. I know, we’ve been told either overtly or covertly that we don’t have a right to exist. And so when we ask a question, oh, I’m sorry to bother you. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. No, the narcissistic parents are the ones that make us feel like a burden. Narcissistic parents are the ones that make us feel like we shouldn’t be there. Nancy and I were having discussions this whole weekend about our dad, and about how he would complain to his staff, because he was an attorney. So, we had secretaries. And how he would complain to the secretaries about what burdens we were and and how much money we cost and how horrible we were and all of this stuff. And I guess one of the Secretary said, Well, you should have kept your zipper zipped. I was just like, Oh, God,

Kris Godinez  08:16

I love you. Anyway, yeah. And I of course, would say something similar to him, I would kind of be like, well, you should have used birth control than if you didn’t want kids. And that of course would get me hit because he would you know, backhand me after I said a truth. So basically, the narcissistic parents, the disordered parents, are the ones that make us feel like we don’t have a right to exist, they didn’t really want us in the first place. Or if they did want us in order to make an attachment to whatever that supply is whoever that supply is. Because remember, disordered people will intentionally get pregnant in order to have an 18 year connection to somebody so that they’ve got constant supply. So what will happen is, they’ll be happy to have the kids initially, and the kids are okay with most disordered parents, not all but most disordered parents until about the age of five, because that’s right around the age that little ones really start developing their own sense of self. And so they will, you know, say no, and mean it and not want to do what the narcissist wants to do will not just automatically comply. Okay? And remember, narcissists are always looking for automatic compliance. That’s part of the DSM five definition. It’s like they expect automatically, our automatic compliance with their wants, needs and wishes.

So when a five year old is like, No, I don’t want to go do this. No, I don’t want they come unglued. And they that’s when they start resenting the child and that’s when they start hating the child. Um, something else that we were talking about, at the Santa Barbara, meet and greet was the way that narcissists divide and conquer the kids. And so, they get the kids to start in fighting against each other. Because if they can create that kind of animosity, you know, and again, this plays into the I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. You know, if they can create animosity, they can point to the kids and go, Oh, it’s them. Oh, they’re the problem there. This is. And of course, all of the focus is now on the kids and not on the abuser. And so the abuser is like, oh, it’s not me, it’s the kids is oh, you know, and so, um, we very much get caught up in that pleasing, the abuser trying to make them happy. And it never works. Because narcissists are never happy. They are a seething black abyss of hatred of themselves, of everybody around them, of everything around them. They just do not they, they don’t love guys, they don’t. And they do look at the kids and go, you’re the reason you’re the reason I can’t retire. You’re the reason my life is miserable. You’re the reason that I’m not happy. You’re the and they do this to little ones. And this is I am an advocate for little kids, because little kids can’t advocate for themselves because they have no money and no power. And it makes me very angry. When I see oh, I don’t know, a corporation like Disney, or a parent. Putting this onus on this kid and going, Oh, well, you’re the problem. You’re, you’re the problem. You’re you’re you, you, you, you you guns, and then the kid starts going, Oh, it’s me. It’s me. I’m the problem. I’m the problem. I’m the problem. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry for taking up space. I’m sorry, I’m bothering you. I’m sorry. You know, when

Kris Godinez  11:46

I was a kid, I remember very distinctly walking in after school. And I was having a problem with bullies. And I walked up to my dad and I was like, Dad, I need your help. And he turned around and looked at me and said, and he was watching the evening news, Walter Cronkite, right? Turned around looked at me and said, I’ve got problems on my own, don’t bother me, and then turn up the volume super loud. And at that point, I went, Okay, I won’t bother you. And I figured it out on my own. And this is where our trauma response of apologizing all the time. Because don’t bother me, you’re a bother your burden. You’re burdensome, you’re bothersome. Why would I want to take five minutes away from watching Walter Cronkite to go respond to a problem that you’re having. So, what does that tell a kid that tells the kid they’re not worth it? That tells the kid that they shouldn’t be there shouldn’t be taking up space shouldn’t be talking shouldn’t be whatever. And, and then the kid learns not to ask for help. So again, can you see where all of the trauma responses come from? Apologizing, over apologizing trauma response. Not asking for help trauma response. And it’s because of the narcissistic parent basically saying, Don’t bother me. You bother me kid go away. Don’t bother me. I’m busy. I’m this, this television show is more important than you. This thing that I’m doing right here is more important than you.

And of course, they don’t understand emotions. They don’t feel emotions the way that we do. So to see somebody having a genuine distress and asking for help, they don’t care because they can’t process it. They can’t go oh my gosh, my kid is in distress. I need to help them. Or they don’t care or they enjoy it. Because remember, they’re sadists so. So there is that. So we get this real sense of being a burden, and that it’s not okay for us to take up space and that it’s not okay for us to exist. And it’s not okay for us to ask for help. And so, we start apologizing when we shouldn’t. Or the other thing that narcissists do is something happens. We apologize, and they’ll bring it back up. Well, you know, you need to apologize again. Well, no, you need to apologize again. And it’s like this never-ending you have to apologize, apologize, apologize, apologize, apologize for something that you’ve already apologized for. And that’s how you know you’re dealing with an abuser. Because a healthy sane person, if something happens, and there’s a need for an apology, an apology is made. The solution is figured out, you know, the amends are made and then you move on. Okay, and it’s not continually drug up, but with an abusive parent. They love to humiliate, they love to harm, they love to hurt. They’re, they’re sadistic, and so they will bring up past quote unquote, wrongs that you have done to you, to your friends, to their friends, to whatever to humiliate you and then you’re forced to apologize all over again for something that you’ve already done. apologized for so it’s grooming and it’s codependency so if you want to work on the codependency part of it, I strongly suggest you get the disease to please by Harriet breaker or codependent no more beyond codependent no more by Melanie Beatty, there’s also pm Melody’s stuff on codependence and really start working on breaking those bad habits of apologizing for things that you’ve either a already apologized for, or b don’t need to apologize for.

So let’s take the first one. Okay. So you’ve already apologized for it, and the person comes back to you and demands that you apologize again. Okay, here’s a red flag. So then what you’re going to do is you’re basically going to say, I’ve already apologized for that. So here’s the deal. What do you need? What did not get handled in the first apology?

Kris Godinez  16:00

What amends did not get handled in the first apology? If they cannot come up with an answer, you’re dealing with somebody who’s looking to abuse you. Because most people would be able to say, I feel unsettled about this, this is what I need, or this is what I’m feeling. You know, that kind of thing. What an abuser does is that they come out and they’re like, Well, you need to apologize, uh, you hurt my feelings. Well, they don’t have feelings. They say they do. They don’t. You need to apologize again. You need to dadadada. okay, well, what do you need? I’ve already said, I’m sorry, I’ve already made amends. What more do you need? And they’ll either come up with some BS that’s not real, or they won’t know. More than likely they won’t know. They’ll probably do the whole. You know, I don’t know, I just want an apology thing. If you’ve already sincerely apologized for it. Now, let’s review. A true apology is I take responsibility for harming you, I hurt you. I am mortified. I am sorry, I own it. I did it. Notice there’s none of this flipping the script. But you. I’m sorry, but I’m sorry. But you I’m sorry. You made me I’m sorry. None of that. No, I did it. I own it. I’m mortified. It will not happen again. Tell me how I can make amends, how can we fix this, and I am really sorry. And then you’d make the amends, and you do what you need to do in order to repair the relationship, what an abuser will do is they will first of all freak out that you’re owning whatever you did. And then they’ll try to shame you. So, they try to shame you, they try to make you wrong, they try to put you down. And also too what I have found is that the stronger I have gotten in my self-esteem and my boundaries, they don’t try to pull that crap with me because an honest to god real apology for me is too threatening to them, because they recognize they can’t do that. So, and they also recognize I’m not going to put up with the whole apologize again, apologize again, apologize again. So basically, it’s drawing boundaries. And it’s kind of like I have already apologized for this. What more do you want? What else do you need? What is missing from the amends. Oh, there’s nothing missing? Okay, well, then here’s the deal. as of this date, I am apologizing, and I will not be apologizing for this again. And if you bring it up again, this is your problem, you need to go talk to a therapist. Seriously. So, they are very much it’s a power and control thing. They want to shame you. They want to put you on the spot. They want to make you feel less than and they want to make you feel like you have to apologize to them in order for them to love you. Seriously, that’s what their whole game is. It’s a game. It’s a total mind. Screwing game is what they’re doing.

So, okay, why and how do we apologize for things that shouldn’t be apologized for. So, this is something I really, really, really want to make sure that we hit on. So when when we start apologizing for our existence, oh, I’m sorry to bother you. But, you know, are you ready for that meeting that we had or whatever, that basically sends the message that you’re apologizing for taking up space? And you don’t want to do that? If you’ve scheduled a meeting with somebody? You don’t start it off with? I’m sorry? Are you ready? You know, it’s like, Hey, I’m here for the meeting. Are you ready? That’s how you start that off. That’s coming from a position of equal footing. You know what I’m saying instead of one up one down. So, if you’re constantly apologizing for your existence, you’re coming from a place of one down and unfortunately, because of the nature of abusers, they will hear that, they will recognize it, and they will use it to their advantage. So, if they know that you’ve already got some insecurity around taking up space, they’re going to start working on that and they’re going to enjoy it and they’re going to make you the target. They’re going to make you the scapegoat of the office. They’re going to make you the scapegoat of the relationship they’re going to make If you’ve scape goat of the family, they’re going to, you know, whatever. So basically, it’s like, you really have to catch yourself and I did this too. I really honest to God, ask any of my friends have known me forever in a day. They will tell you that when I was in high school and before, you know, I would apologize all the time.

Kris Godinez  20:21

I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. It’s kind of like, I don’t know if you’ve ever watched a Little Shop of Horrors with Steve Martin and I can’t think of the guy who played Seymour. But anyway, Steve Martin was in it. And the girl who played Audrey, she was adorable. Anyway, Audrey was abused by the Steve Martin character. See, Martin played the sadistic dentist. And so she would always apologize. always apologize. You know, she was I’m sorry, Doctor. I’m sorry, Doctor. I’m sorry, doctor. You know, and of course, then when she got with Seymour who was her true love, she didn’t have to apologize. There’s no apologizing because there was no need to apologize, you know. And it was, you know, an equal relationship. And it was really interesting to watch that movie coming from now this perspective, and I just totally was like, oh my god, that was me. Holy crap. That was that was me. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry for this. I’m sorry for that. I’m sorry for bothering you. I’m sorry for taking up space. I’m sorry. You know, the whole thing. So, if you haven’t watched a Little Shop of Horrors, I highly recommend it. It’s a it’s a great movie. But anyway, the point being is that when somebody is abusive, they love that, they look for people who apologize. So, this is another reason why you don’t need to be apologizing all the time.

Now, obviously, if you have harmed somebody, either intentionally or unintentionally and usually with us, it’s unintentional with narcissists it is intentional. You know if you’ve accidentally harmed somebody you make amends, you clean it up, you know, Clean up on aisle five, I did this oh my god, I am so sorry. How can I fix this? How can I make amends and then you make whatever image you need to make and you move on with a narcissist with somebody who is codependent that has not worked on self-esteem self-esteem workbook Glen Schiraldi I kid you not, do it. Self-esteem workbook or the disease to please or you are a badass by Jen Sincero. Working on self-esteem working on not being codependent. They recognize that somebody hasn’t done that work when they’re constantly apologizing, and oh, boy, they zero in on them and use them like nobody’s business, make them the target, make them the scapegoat in office situations and family situations and romantic situations, the whole thing so this is why you really want to start catching yourself. So for me, watching that movie was like, Oh, my God, that’s that was my that was my early adulthood. It was apologizing. But the other thing is, is that when I started working on myself in therapy, and I started working on self-esteem, and I started working on boundaries, I would have friends go stop apologizing. And I was kind of like, Oh, I’m gonna have to be mindful about this holy cow. So, then you really start paying attention to how much are you apologizing. I would run into mannequins, and I would turn around and apologize to the mannequin, and then I’d be like, Oh, Lord, Christ, what are you? What are you doing? What are you doing? So it’s kind of like, the only time you need to apologize is if you’ve harmed someone unintentionally, intentionally, hopefully not. But unintentionally. You’ve harmed someone you own it, you apologize for it once once, and then you make amends and you move on. You own it, and you make sure it doesn’t happen again.

This is the big thing. Abusers love to say I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. And of course they’re not sorry. Because why? Because they do the same behavior over and over and over and over they’re just sorry they got caught is basically what’s going on with us with an abuser they do the apologize to me apologize to me apologize to me thing you better be sorry. You better make amends for this you better Baba Baba Baba. And that’s not how a healthy normal person reacts anyway, because it’s a power and control thing. So, we got to start paying attention. How often are we saying I’m sorry. You know, ask your good friends to kind of call you out on it. I had to do that because I would just I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Andrea, one of my friends was like, Stop apologizing. It’s like I’m like I’m sorry. Oh, wait, no, I’m not sorry. You know, so it’s gonna take practice and it is a habit. It is a habit. So we’ve been groomed to say I’m sorry for existing for everything that we do. So in order to undo it, we have to catch ourselves. So when you catch yourself apologizing, you really have to run it through a few gates. You have to be like, Okay, wait a minute. Do I need to be apologizing? Did I harm somebody? No, I didn’t. Oh, okay. All right. Um, so what am I doing? Where is this coming from?

Kris Godinez  25:02

Oh, this is from my childhood. This is from not being allowed to ask a question or feeling like I am taking up space or feeling like I should be. You know, Mia culpa, Mia culpa, mea maxima culpa because of my dad, you know? So, you want to figure out where in your childhood who made you apologize? Hmm, who made you? Who made you feel like you were taking up space? Who made you feel like it wasn’t okay for you to exist? Who was doing the either overt or covert You know, I don’t like you, you need to apologize, or I’m not gonna like you, that kind of thing. And it’s usually a disordered parent. So, hey, anyway, so you got to be mindful. And you’ve got to start running it through? Do I need to apologize? Has somebody been harmed? Has somebody been hurt? Do I need to make amends? And is it scary to do that? You betcha. Because usually, we haven’t been trained how to be a healthy adult, taking personal responsibility, making amends, cleaning up the mess, and making sure it doesn’t happen again, because narcissists never do that. They never do that. And they don’t teach their kids to do that. So it’s really important to own what you’ve done, make the amends, but you only apologize for it once. If somebody’s making you apologize over and over again, run do not walk to the nearest exit, because there is something seriously wrong with them seriously, because a healthy normal person would be like, okay, amends have been made, I may not have full trust yet, but let’s see what happens. You know, that kind of thing.

Really, I play life, like a baseball game. If somebody does something to me repeatedly, there’s a pattern, you know, three times in your out and sometimes less than that. So you look for patterns, you look for intent, really, and you can tell if somebody is intent on hurting you, or if somebody is, you know, it was a complete fluke, and they didn’t mean it. And, you know, let’s work on this. Let’s clean this up.

So, okay, there was a couple of articles I wanted to hit. One of them is why some people can’t stop apologizing. And this is by Melody, wilding and she’s a social worker. And this is on psychology today. And it’s called why some people can’t stop apologizing, constantly apologizing can have negative effects on your career, on your relationships, etc. It conveys insincerity, or it conveys a sense of lack of confidence kind of thing. Over apologizing, may have its roots may have its roots. No, it does have its roots in childhood. It can be the result of a genuine desire to demonstrate respect, or it can stem from aversion to conflict. So, what I see some people do and this is never a good idea is that they try to avoid conflict by just immediately assuming responsibility. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. It’s all my fault. Nope. Nope, no, no, no. So, we quickly learned that conflict is scary, especially with a narcissist because remember, they don’t like to lose, it’s a win lose proposition for them, they have to win. So, we quickly start viewing conflict as arguing or as I’m gonna get hit, I’m gonna get screamed at I’m gonna get raged at I’m gonna whatever, in a healthy relationship. I want you to reframe conflict, conflict is clarification. All you’re doing is going, let’s clarify. You’re saying this, I’m thinking this, let’s clarify. And let’s see if we can come to a mutually agreeable solution. Now, most sane adults, that’s what they want. They want to come to a mutually agreeable solution. People who are personality disordered are stuck in black and white thinking and they have to be right. I’m right, you’re wrong. And they want an argument. Why? Because abusers get off on screaming and yelling.

Kris Godinez  29:23

And they get off on the power trip of making you apologize for something that you didn’t even do

you know, or, or something that you know, you may have done, but it was minor, right. So, they get off on that. So why? Because anger jacks up the endorphins, the dopamine serotonin is the Nora epinephrine. If you ever go to an AA meeting, and it’s filled with a bunch of old dry drunks that are you know, sober, sober, but they’re angry as hell that they’re not being able to use so they’re jacking up their endorphins, their dopamine or serotonin to get that feel good thing that’s exactly what narcissists do. Why do you think they rage? They enjoy it, it jacks up their endorphins, their dopamine or serotonin. It’s their supply. Let’s be clear. So they look for a reason to argue, they look for a reason to put you down, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. You need to apologize that whole thing because it makes them feel powerful. And it jacks up their feel good chemicals. That’s why they do it. So healthy people though they don’t enjoy that, they look for a solution a mutually agreeable solution, so that both parties are getting their needs met. narcissists don’t care about us getting our needs met, or anybody else getting their needs met. It’s me, me, me I,I,I, more, my genitals as far as they’re concerned. So, um, anyway, conflict in a healthy relationship is really clarification. Let’s get clarification. I want to understand where you’re coming from. You want to understand where I’m coming from. Let’s talk this through. We may not agree, but that doesn’t mean we have to hate each other scream at each other. But narcissists, they have to hate and they have to scream because it jacks up the dopamine, endorphins, norepinephrine, etc. So this is why they do the raging This is why they demand that we apologize. Etc. Okay.

Okay, over apologizing has roots in childhood. Okay, it is a habit, it is a habit. And the way to break that habit is to reflect on your childhood. Now something that a lot of people say all the time, especially in therapy. But, but, but, I don’t want to remember! But, but, but, I don’t want to think about it. But. But. But. Now, here’s the problem. When you shove all of those emotions, all of those memories, all of that trauma down, you get emotionally constipated, basically, and it comes flying out sideways in ways that you never intended. So it’s really honest to God, hand on heart, listen to me now. It’s better to work through this, who in your childhood shamed you? This is all about shame. Apologizing is all about shame. Who in your childhood shamed you? Who constantly told you you weren’t good enough? Or that they wouldn’t love you? If you didn’t apologize? Or how dare you for taking up space? How dare you for being born? How your burden you know, who shamed you who put their projection of their crap on to you who shamed you. It really is about the shame. Now, here’s the thing, people are terrified of shame, because they’re like, it’s shameful. It hurts. It’s painful. But here’s the thing, you start working through that CPTSD from surviving to thriving Pete Walker. Listen to me now believe me later. CPTSD from surviving to thriving Pete Walker, start working through the shame. This is how they’ve controlled us. This is how they get us to apologize all the time. They’ve shoved their shame onto us. So it’s time to start separating out what is theirs. And what is really ours. And when you start doing that, it’s amazing when you see oh, oh, wait a minute, none of this was mine. Holy, whoa, what this was all there’s all of the shame, all of this humiliation, all of this putting down all of this not good enough. That was all them wasn’t you. I’m sorry, five year olds, no. They love to make five year olds and anybody else that doesn’t agree with them feel shamed, filled, and we don’t need to feel shame filled. That’s them. They are the ones that are shamed, filled, they can’t acknowledge it, they can’t accept it. They can’t feel it. So they project it onto their kids onto their lovers onto their family members, whatever. So it’s really working on the shame. Really, really, do you need to feel ashamed for this particular thing? No, y’all don’t, you don’t. So you take responsibility for whatever accidental thing happened, or harm that happened. You own it, you fix it, you offer amends, if they don’t accept the immense that’s now on them, because you have offered you have said, here’s, here’s what I did. I am sorry, it will not happen again. Here’s the amends. Are you amenable to allowing me to fix this?

Kris Godinez  34:17

And if they say no,that’s on them. But then what they’ll do is they’ll turn around and be like, I’m going to punish you. I’m going to hurt you. I’m going to harm you. You need to apologize bla bla bla bla bla. No, I have already apologized. I have already done what I need to do. I am not going to continue to apologize. Have I gone over time again? Oh, good Lord, I have okay. So um, all right. So there is that so let me finish this article really quickly. Um, okay.

You start an email to your boss saying I’m sorry to bother you. No, don’t so you’ve got to get out of the habit of apologizing for asking for what you need. apologizing for taking up space. You’ve got to get out of that habit. It is a bad habit. and apologizing when somebody else does something wrong or something bad.

So, for example, we get trained to take responsibility for what the abuser is doing. Oh, I’m so sorry. You know, let’s say we go to a restaurant and they act like a jackass to the waiter, which is often the case, right? So they treat the waiter, poorly, whatever, and we apologize to the waiter for their behavior. Now, granted, I think most of us probably would be like, Oh, my God, you did not deserve that, you know, that kind of thing. But somehow, if we haven’t worked on our self-esteem and our boundaries, we take it on as if we did it, and it’s not. So be very cognizant of that do not take on things that are not yours. Okay. Um, all right.

So she talks more in this article about how it is rooted in childhood. Apologizing excessively can be the result of desire to please a desire to get respect. Or it can be a desire to stay on the good side of the abuser. Five ways over apologizing hurts you insecurity and self-doubt. Yeah. Because then if we start taking on their stuff, we start thinking that we’re the problem and we’re not. We can appear insincere, if we apologize for everything. powerlessness, and that’s the danger is that abusers look for people who apologize all the time, because they’re like, Ah, they’re insecure up, they don’t have much power, oh, I’m going to take advantage of them. That’s what they do. Depending on external validation, you don’t need external validation, you need your own validation. That’s why the self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi and the you’re a badass by Jen Sincero, are two really good books to read, compromising your values. So, you do, you end up compromising your values when you’re apologizing all the time, because you’re taking on stuff that’s not yours.

Three steps to stop saying I’m sorry, so much. This is the same article, reflect on who in your childhood caused you to apologize all the time? Who does this really belong to examine the context in which you’re saying you’re sorry, you know, do you really need to apologize or not? Start replacing unwarranted apologies and act with accurate statements to communicate Kate, your point instead of Well, I’m sorry, but no, here’s my point. Here’s what I’m saying. Let’s talk. So there is that article that was a really good article Hold on, let me get one more article.

And this one is how to stop over apologizing also by the same melody wilding. Apologies when warranted, are a sign of empathy. And that’s great. So, I’m not saying stop apologizing completely. I’m saying stop apologizing when it’s not warranted. So, be be cognizant, be mindful of does this situation really need an apology? Or not, you know, and only apologize when it’s warranted. Okay, excessive, Apologies is about habit. We over apologize to be liked. I think I’ve talked about that.

Alternatives for alternatives to saying I’m sorry, when someone bumps into you or they’re in your way, when somebody bumps into you saying excuse me, or pardon me is much more appropriate than saying I’m sorry. And that is something like I said, when I bumped into the mannequin, I found myself saying I’m sorry. And I’m like, Whoa, what is this? When you have a question, and this is the important one, practice speaking up with your friends in meetings without apologizing first, women especially have a tendency to apologize for wanting to be heard. Wow. Okay, how many of us can relate to that? My dad’s favorite saying because he was an abuser was children should be seen and not heard. No, children need to be seen and heard.

Kris Godinez  39:06

And so many targets of abuse, really struggle with being heard. And it’s frustrating, because for them, for us, because all we ever wanted to do was be heard. We wanted to be believed we wanted to be heard. And so as an adult, it’s really hard for us to believe that somebody is going to listen to us number one. And number two, realize that we have a right to our own voice. You have a right to your own voice.

So when you’re doing the mirror work and you’re working on the apology over apologizing stuff. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, you don’t have to apologize for your existence. You have a right to be seen, to be heard and to be believed. And then walk out and I want you to do that every day. Every day every day every day. Put little post it notes around you have a right to be seen heard and believed, because how many of us as targets of abuse were neither seen nor heard nor believed. I think all of us, basically, so you have a right to be seen, you have a right to be heard, and you have a right to be believed. So when you need to ask a question or you want to contribute to whatever conversation is, don’t apologize, don’t apologize, you have a right to be heard, you have a right to be seen, and you have a right to be believed. So keep that in mind and do the mirror work on that. Okay, how are we doing on time, I am really going over, I’m so sorry.

Okay, when you’re late for a meeting or reply to an email. Thank you. These two words are often more powerful than an apology, tribal, replacing feelings of shame. With gratitude, thank you, let’s begin is a more substantial way to acknowledge that your colleagues have waited for you, thank you for waiting for me. Let’s begin. Instead of Oh, I’m sorry, you know, that kind of thing. And especially if you’re dealing with sharks, guys, if you’re dealing with narcissists in the office, you don’t want to come from a position of one down. So that’s why they’re saying thank you so much for waiting for me, let’s begin. That’s keeping it on even ground and I know it’s game playing it is. But when you’re dealing with narcissism in the workplace, you have to learn how to keep yourself safe, and play the games, to the extent that you stay safe, but you’re not compromising yourself. And that’s important.

Okay, when someone makes an unreasonable request on your time, instead of saying, I’m sorry, no, I can’t do that. You simply say, No, I am unable to do that. Period. Now, what an abuser will then do is they will but why, but why, but why? Or something else that I really hate is when somebody says, Oh, what are you doing next Saturday. And you know, they’re going to ask for something. And it’s like, if you say nothing, okay, now they’ve got you. That’s a narc game that has a total nark total. So you want to be on guard for those kinds of things. And if somebody asks you to do something, and you don’t want to do it, you have the right to say no, no, no, no, no is a boundary, a wall of No, it is a boundary. And so they’ll try to guilt you into doing whatever they want. They’ll try to, you know, make you feel ashamed, or well, you’re not a good friend, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, your time is valuable, guys, your time is valuable. And if you don’t want to do something, you have the right to say no. Now, when we were with our abusive parents, or our abusive, romantic partner or whatever, we couldn’t say no, because we would be punished and we would be harmed and hurt if they try to punish you or harm you or hurt you. That is not your friend. No, is respected by healthy people. No is not respected by disordered people. So always remember that the only people that don’t like boundaries are the ones that benefit from crossing over them. Does that make sense? So?

Kris Godinez  43:06

Yeah, so there is that. Remember saying your story isn’t necessarily a sign of weakness unless it’s in the corporate type of thing. A well-placed apology can be very powerful, and is essential to address any wrongs that have happened. But you want to make sure that you’re not over apologizing for your existence for being seen for being heard, that kind of thing.

So anyway, to, to recap, and then we’re going to dive into the questions. No is important or no is important. Obviously, it’s a boundary. Apologies are important when they’re appropriate, because it’s a sign of empathy. And it’s a sign of ownership of oh, I screwed up. I’m sorry. Let me make amends. You know, that kind of thing. If somebody doesn’t accept your apology, and wants you to continue apologize. Ah, no, that’s, that’s, that’s a narc move. That is a total abusive move. So and if they will not accept your apology, again, that is on them, you’ve made the offer you How can I make amends? How can we fix this, and they’re continuing to want to punish you? No, we’re done. That’s on them now. So and that’s really scary for us, because we’ve never really stood up for ourselves, especially when we were in the relationship.

Now. If you’re in an abusive relationship, you’ve got to be very careful, because it’s not safe to stand up to them, obviously. So, this is clearly for people who have left the abusive relationship or working in an office where there are narcissists, you have to stand up for yourself in that situation. If you’re in an abusive relationship with a family or with a romantic partner, and you’re still living there, be very careful, do draw boundaries, but be prepared for blowback because they will try to punish and they will try to harm and hurt which is why you need to get out. So um, okay, let’s see. Is that it? I think that was it for that one. All right. Let’s go to questions, I really need my reading glasses. What the heck? Um, can I make this bigger? Will it? Let me make it bigger? Hold on. Oh, there we go, Lord, I can read. Good. All right.

Do abusers get angry when you don’t apologize especially for something you never did that they made up? Absolutely. Because it’s their reality they have magic thinking and in their world, they’re always right. You’re always wrong. Even if they made it up. It seems that abusers expect their targets to always be sorry. Yes. That is 100% Correct. So, abusers will lie. If their lips are moving, they are lying. And so they will make something up that you did that you didn’t do remember, it’s gaslighting? It’s rewriting history, right? So, they’ll say, Well, you said that or you did that and you know, and I’m gonna punish you and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, wait a minute, click, click, click, click click. I didn’t say that. I didn’t do that. What are you talking about? Yes, you did rage, rage, rage, rage, rage. Again, they are looking for an excuse to rage. This is what abusers do because dopamine, serotonin norepinephrine the feel-good chemicals, makes them feel powerful. So, and in their mind, they’re crazy mind. And we’re going to talk more about weird thinking of narcissists in a few weeks because I think this needs to be addressed. In their magic thinking, you’re always wrong. They’re always right. And if they’re feeling bad about themselves, projection, so they will create something that you supposedly did, which really they did, because generally they’re talking about themselves. So, when a narcissist is accusing you of something, so the common one is you’re cheating. Okay, that’s, that’s the number one one number one, one, that narcissists, you’re cheating, you’re, I know, you’re cheating, you’re you’re doing that you can bet your sweet bippy that you need to run out and get a test for STDs because they’re talking about what they’re doing. So, remember, projection with narcissists, narcissists cannot take responsibility for anything, and they assume that everyone acts and thinks the same way they do, and it angers them to the core when we don’t. So, they project what they would be doing onto their target of abuse. So, if a narcissist starts accusing you of having an affair, you can bet your sweet bippy they’re doing it.

Kris Godinez  47:33

That’s they tell on themselves, because they then project outwards and say, well, you’re doing it when in reality, they’re doing it. So yeah. narcissists will basically tell you how they’re going to screw you over what they’re doing. They’re not very bright, you know, because their projection tells you everything you need to know. And if they’re accusing you of cheating, and there’s no way in hell, you’re cheating, and it’s clear, you’re not cheating. You can bet they’re talking about themselves. Absolutely. Take it to the bank, earn money on it. So yes, they will create things and they like the anger and they will accuse us of the things that they are doing. So yes, absolutely. All right.

My spouse blames herself for her parents behavior towards me. She feels guilt and shame. How do I support and how do we stop getting triggered? Okay. First and foremost, go get a trauma therapist swear to God, like seriously this, this is going to need a trauma therapist. Why is she taking responsibility for what her parents are doing? So, my guess is, this has been a childhood thing. This has been a lifelong thing. So I think a good trauma therapist for her a trauma therapist for you guys as a couple would be a really, really, really good idea to start working the books I talked about guys, I don’t mention them just because I like mentioning books, although I do like mentioning books because I like books, but CPTSD from surviving to thriving P Walker, a good trauma therapist, either EMDR, EFT, DBT any CBT any of the modalities are pretty good with trauma. So, CBT is talk therapy and that’s pretty good with trauma. DBT is mindfulness. You know, what are you thinking? Why are you thinking Where’s this coming from, what is happening, etc, etc, etc. EFT is the tapping I’ve had patients have huge success with the tapping and EMDR so it helps you know, recall trauma without reliving it, which I think is very important. So you definitely want to do that and work on separation of you know, this is your parents stuff. This is your stuff. This is your parents stuff, this is your stuff, and supportive. It’s like okay, why How did this happen in childhood now you don’t need to be a therapist, you know, but you can kind of like this I don’t think this is your problem. You know, it’s like, Why are you apologizing for something they did? It’s okay for them to be the bad guys, a lot of times that freaks people out because it’s like, it never was okay for the parents to be the bad guys, because the kids would get punished because if they didn’t take on the role of them the problem the parents would punish them. So this is something this is why I’m thinking trauma therapy would be a really good idea. Okay, let’s see how we do it on time.

Okay. Is it possible for the victims of abuse, to apologize in adult life as a way of apologizing to themselves? I felt like saying sorry, a lot as an adult as more for myself as I let it happen. Okay. So yes, and no, so let’s talk about that. So, a lot of trauma survivors blame themselves for what happened to them, let us be clear, the complete responsibility lies at the foot, feet of the abuser, abusers. It is not the target’s fault, ever. So people are like, well, but oh my gosh, you know, I didn’t see the red flags, or I ignored the red flags or you know, whatever. And I got involved. Okay, here’s the thing guys, do they teach this stuff in high school? Last time I checked? No, they don’t. They should. They don’t. So it’s unless you’re studying Abnormal Psychology. Right? And you’re reading up on all the journals and all of the stuff you’re not gonna know these guys are, guys and gals, because remember, females can be narcissists as well. And men can be borderline, so it’s, everybody can have this, both sexes, and anything in between, you know, it’s like, it’s, it’s there, it’s going to be there. So, what I’m saying is, is that they are responsible, but they’re charming. They’re charming. And so, they hook their target, they hook their victim, they hook the person that they want to harm with this charming, charming, charming, you know, for example, let’s let’s let’s use for example, that correctional officer,

Kris Godinez  52:15

I think it was an Alabama, who ran off with the murderer, sold her house, bought all this stuff, and then ended up killing herself when they got caught. And John and I were looking at each other going what? Well, he was charming, he was a charming Narcissist, dark triad. Hello, you’re dealing with antisocial narcissism Machiavellianism. And if you’ve ever watched an interview with one of the truly crazy serial killers, charming Ted Bundy, charming, charming, and they can charm and they can lie, and it can sound so pretty. They make the prettiest words come out of their mouth, but you have to look at the actions. Hmm. And here’s the thing. Not even correctional officers get trained in this stuff. The police do not get trained in mental health issues, correctional officers do not get trained in mental health issues. Regular general practitioner doctors get I think, two to three weeks of training in mental health issues. And that’s it. Can you let me just say that, again. General Practitioners get maybe two to three weeks, maybe on a good day on a Tuesday if the winds blowing in the right direction, have mental health issues. Anybody else see a problem with that? Given that we just had another mass shooting in Texas? Yeah, I do. Mental health has been ignored in this country. It is not trained in the area of public service and it should. Police should be trained in it. Correctional Officers should be trained in it so they don’t fall victim to these charming psychopaths, narcissists, dark triads, you know what I’m saying? So, yeah, and doctors, they don’t know how to do prescriptions and things, you know, psychotropic drugs, things like that. I remember referring somebody to their GP, and the GP called me up and was like, Well, I don’t know what to prescribe. I just, that’s not my area of expertise. And I’m just like, do you know somebody? You know, because you’re a doctor. I’m a therapist. You’re a doctor, go find somebody for this client. Hello. So it’s just it’s mind blowing, mind blowing the lack of education. We are not educated on this stuff. We don’t teach our kids this. I truly encourage you. If you’ve got kids, grandkids, great grandkids, whatever. Teach them about the red flags, teach them what to look for. It is not the target’s fault. If we’ve never been trained in what to look out for how the hell do we know what to look out for? It’s not fair. Don’t blame yourself. Please, please, please, please, please do not. Do not blame yourself. You couldn’t have known. They are charming. I mean charming. Like when I worked with I was mentoring a younger therapist and this total psychopath was at the homeless shelter. Charming, charming, charming and the younger therapist didn’t see it and I was like psychopath don’t turn your back. You know exactly. And I had to explain what I was seeing. Because they didn’t get trained in school. They don’t train therapists thoroughly and they need to anyway, so do not blame yourself.

If you are feeling guilty because you got involved with an abuser, please go get a trauma therapist please work on self-forgiveness. Okay, here’s a good book for that. Colin tipping. radical self-forgiveness Colin tipping, he’s got an he’s got a whole series of books. He’s passed away. I wish he was still alive. But he’s got a whole series of books. One of them is radical forgiveness, which is about forgiving other people. radical self-forgiveness is about forgiving yourself. And I think that’s important and I think that a lot of survivors of abuse have this guilt that somehow we deserved it and horse that’s because there are our abuser told us well, you You made me hit you. You’re making me punish you. You’re you, you you you you you guns. So we get this idea that somehow it’s our fault or we deserved it we did not and we do not. So work on self-forgiveness. Write yourself a love letter. Forgive yourself. Forgive your younger self for not knowing forgive that self that got involved in didn’t know I forgive you. It’s okay. You didn’t know. You know what I’m saying? So yeah, I think you’re right. I think there is a part of us that is constantly like apologizing to ourselves for what happened, but you’ve got to understand you didn’t know. You weren’t trained in this. You haven’t been reading all of the journals and the articles and attending classes and listening to Bessel Van de Kolk and Bessel Van de Kolk body keep score. excellent book. Go get it. He’s awesome. frickin love him.

Kris Godinez  57:06

Neurofeedback neurofeedback is another great modality neurofeedback, not biofeedback, neurofeedback, so anyway, those are some really good modalities to use. Okay, we got some more questions. But yeah, forgive yourself. And yes, I do think we we bag on ourselves way too much for what we went through and it wasn’t our fault. We take ownership. Okay. Now I know. Now I know better. Now I can do better. Okay, how did I get there? Oh, look, dad or mom groomed me. Isn’t that interesting? But we don’t beat ourselves up, we put it back to the abusers. That’s what you want to do. Put it back to the abusers. Okay. This is going to be our last question because I definitely gone overtime.

I am hyper vigilant to people’s facial expressions, especially ones indicating disapproval or disgust, wanting to make me feel less than. How do I stop this? Okay, that is a good question. So when we are raised by abusive parents, we become hyper vigilant. We watch their every facial move their body language, we can read a room, I’ll tell you what survivors of abuse can read a room like nobody’s business, if they’re working on themselves, okay. You know, you can walk into a room and you can kind of go I’m not safe, not safe. Okay, that person safe, that person safe. That one’s not, you know, you kind of read the room because you’re hyper vigilant. You’re looking looking looking. So what ends up happening, though, is we if we’re not working on our self-esteem, and we’re not working on boundaries, we assume everything has to do with us. And it does not, it does not now, our abusers will have told us that everything had to do with us. Well, you’re the reason I did that. And you’re you deserve that. And you, you, you, you you you guns. So we think it’s us.

Here’s the reality. Other people, what other people think, is none of our business. We don’t know what’s going on in their head. We don’t. You know, Nancy and I are we’re out at the art show that was down by the beach yesterday. And this woman just walked in front of us as we were coming into the parking lot, and she gave us the nastiest look. And both Nancy and I were like, wow, sucks to be you. We kept going. I don’t know what was going on in her mind. Maybe she doesn’t like Ford’s I don’t know her. Maybe she hates old lady’s going to a show. I don’t know. But it was her. It wasn’t us. And we did not allow her to ruin our day because we don’t know what’s going on with her. Maybe she just had bad news. Maybe she’s just a grumpy old person. Or maybe she’s having a bad day. Who knows? Not my problem. Not my sister’s problem, not my problem, not my husband’s problem. You know, so you just cannot think that everything has to do with you. And this is going to be retraining your brain. So I would strongly suggest get with a good trauma therapist to help with the hyper vigilance. So, the hyper vigilance is there to keep you safe. And that worked great when you were in the dangerous situation. When we come out of an abusive relationship, whether it’s familial, or romantic, or boss, or whatever, it no longer serves us, because now we’re assuming, which makes an ass out of you and me that everything that happens has to do with us. It does not. People are so in their own heads when they really are that very, very rarely do looks have to do with us, it usually has to do with the person and of course, some people just have resting bitchface, you know, so you cannot assume that everything is because of you. And Healthy People are so wrapped up in their own heads and wrapped up in their own lives. They’re very rarely, rarely actually intently looking outwards in harming other people or scowling at other people or whatever. But I’ll tell you who does it’s the disordered ones. You know what I’m saying. And you just kind of gotta go sucks to be them, and you go on with your life. And you don’t ruminate. And that’s something that we do is we ruminate, because our abusers taught us to ruminate, well, what did you do?

Kris Godinez  1:01:24

Why did you do that, you know, rubbing our nose and stuff all the time. So out in the out in the world, if somebody’s giving you a nasty look, take a deep breath, you’re getting triggered, right? Don’t allow that person to steal your power, you’re handing your power over to them. You don’t need to, you don’t need to take your power back. You know what that person could be having a bad day. And I’m never going to run into that person again, if I’m lucky. So I’m not going to allow them to ruin the rest of my day. And I am not going to take it personally. And you go on about your day, get with a good trauma therapist because they need to help you with the hypervigilance. And that’s where this is coming from. So I would strongly recommend working PTSD, CPTSD from surviving to thriving Pete Walker body keeps score by Bessel Vander Kolk self-esteem workbook, because here’s the thing, self-esteem really is the key to surviving and thriving along with working on the CPTSD. Because when we love ourselves, and we know who we are, we recognize that not everything that’s going on in the world is because of us, we have boundaries, and we go up, this is where I begin an end. This is where they begin it. Ah, okay, this is not my problem. What other people think of me is none of my business, they’re gonna think whatever they’re gonna think they’re gonna scowl, they’re gonna do whatever. If they really want to have a conversation, they come up and talk to me. Hopefully not. But you just see where I’m going with that. So it really start working on it’s not always personal. It’s not always about you, who knows, they might have had something horrific happened. Who knows? Who knows? Not your problem, not your problem, not your problem. That is going to be a mantra, I think, for a lot of survivors as they start coming into their own. And recognizing No, this is not my problem. No, I don’t need to make that person happy. No, I don’t need to fill in the blank. So it’s really working on the codependency, the self-esteem and the boundaries. So those are going to serve you well. But do get with a good trauma therapist to help you with that hypervigilance so that you can learn to relax and just kind of be like, Oh, okay, well, they’re scowling. Okay, not my problem because in the past, it always was our problem. So there that is all right. Let’s see. Is that the last question? I think it is. All right, my love you guys be good. Have a great day. And remember, don’t go to Disney. All right. I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.