When a breakup with an abuser happens, have you ever wondered why they suddenly go on a rampage trying to discredit their former target of abuse? What does an abuser get out of such egregious behavior? Why do people believe them? What is a flying monkey anyway? These and many more questions will be answered in this week’s episode!

—

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hello, today is Father’s Day. So that’s the current event I wanted to talk about. I completely forgot it was Father’s Day because, I guess you know, it’s kind of one of those. It means nothing to me because my dad was abusive. So, for those of you who had good dads, good on you. Have a great day, go enjoy yourselves. For those of us who had sperm donors that were abusive. Here’s the deal today sucks. It just let’s just call it what it is. It sucks. Because we’re reminded through you know, stupid commercials or you know, going out to dinner or whatever, that we didn’t have a good dad. So basically, your goal should you Your mission, should you choose to accept it, take super good care of yourself. It’s okay to acknowledge that your sperm donor was abusive. It is. Now if you are the acts of a sperm donor, that’s abusive obviously you’re not going to say that in front of the kids, the kids will figure it out on their own. But for those of us that had a parent that was abusive, the dad that was abusive, you know, it’s perfectly okay to write and burn. I can’t tell you the number of fathers days I did that where it was just like dear asshat and then just laying into him and just being like, you know, sorry you weren’t you weren’t a dad you know if you want it to be thought of well and written about kindly. How about you not being an abusive POS?

So anyway, there that it so basically what I’m saying is, is that today is hard for a lot of us. I’ve gotten to the point, though, where it doesn’t even kind of register, you know, it’s kind of like to me it’s just another day, but yeah, so you know, right and burn if it’s bothering you, right and burn. Self-Care, self-care like a boss. Take super good care of yourself. Take your power back. Seriously, because I know for my family, it was oh, we need to keep this secret that dad is crazy. Well, everyone in town knew he was nuts. In my book, what’s wrong with your dad? I talk about it even know where it is. It’s here somewhere. I talk about how a woman came up to me at spruce drugs in Gridley, California, and was like, What’s wrong with your dad? I’m like, Oh, sweetheart, do you have about four hours? So, I mean, it’s okay to acknowledge it. It’s okay to be like; This person was abusive. This this parent was not a good parent. This person was abusive. I endured whatever and, and because it’s an and world, I’m taking my power back. I am going to take care of myself today. I’m going to do mirror work. I am going to work on self-esteem. I am going to work on boundaries. And you know what? It’s okay for me to acknowledge out loud that Dad was abusive. And I think that’s important. Because we get a lot of that. You know, you can’t first of all, you can’t say anything about the dead. Oh, oh contraire. Okay, for me when somebody says that to me, I look him dead in the eyes. And I say I dare him. I dare his ass hind end to show up and say something to me because he will get an ear full. I’m not afraid of him anymore.

So yeah, it’s we’ve got this weird, you know, you can’t see anything ill of the dead. Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can absolutely 100% And if they’re stupid enough to come back and try to haunt me damn, I dare him, you know what I’m saying? Um, and then the other thing we get is Oh, Honor thy mother and father go pound sand. I’m sorry. It’s a two-way street. The very next line says parents do not bring your children to anger. So, you know if some if somebody pulls that they’re a flying monkey or they’ve got issues of their own that should be like a blaring huge glaring red flag. Okay. So um, yeah, so there’s that. Um, so anyway, so because it is Father’s Day. That’s the that is the current event. Do take good care of yourself. Do acknowledge the abuse. Do you acknowledge yourself validate yourself, you survived you’re listening, you survived Good job, you know, and write and burn, get it out of your head, get it onto paper, get to the point where when Father’s Day happens, it’s not even a blip on your radar until you’re like, oh, okay, you know. So that’s where I want you guys to get. And basically, it’s acknowledging it, it’s getting it out in the open. That is the big thing.

Abuse and shame and all the crap that our Father gave us, if they were abusive, is all it thrives in the dark. So, bring it to the light, bring it to the light, get it out. Be honest, be open with yourself. Do not obviously if you share children with a narcissist do not tell the kids Oh, he’s an asshat. And this that and the other thing they’ll figure it out. Do be honest. And you point out behaviors. That’s what you do you point out behaviors. Anyway. That’s what I wanted to talk about. Anyway. So that is the current event for today.

So hi, how are you guys doing? today? We are talking about why they smear why smear what is what did they get out of that? What is up with that? Oh, so much they. So

Kris Godinez  06:15

Narcissist, you’ve got to understand when you’re dealing with somebody who is narcissistic personality disorder, okay. And they are not just a trader, too. They are like full-blown, match all the criteria, etc., etc. Generally, what you see happening is that all of the different personality disorders start overlapping, okay? So, they will be very dramatic. They can be very, what’s the word I’m looking for vindictive, like nobody’s business. And the biggest mistake I see people making when they go to divorce or leave or get out of one of these relationships is that I will start to warn them I will say you absolutely need to read Splitting by Bill Eddie and Randy Krieger. And you absolutely need to read the No-Nonsense Guide to Divorce by Laurie Hillis. So, you understand the judicial system. So, you know how this whole thing works. It’s not immediate it. So, I encourage them to do that. And then I warn them about what I have seen in the past what I have seen abusers do to their target of abuse. And the words that come out of their mouth really terrify me, they are like, Oh, they would never do that. They Oh, no, they would never do that. And I’m sitting there like pulling my hair outgoing. Take the blinders off. There’s a reason you’re leaving him. He did X, Y and Z. She did XY and Z to you what in the hell tarnation makes you think that they’re not going to do beyond XY and Z? You know?

So, um, it’s a defense mechanism. I think I think it’s we don’t want to believe that somebody could be that heinous. They are that heinous they are. And I think the other thing that we do is we make the mistake of thinking that because we wouldn’t do something like that, that they wouldn’t do something like polar opposite, we wouldn’t do something like that they absolutely would do something like that. That’s why they project. So, this whole projection thing that goes along with the smearing, is them assuming that you’re going to act the way that they would act. And unfortunately, it’s the reverse, you’re assuming that they’re going to act the way you would act. And you cannot do that you’ve literally got to put yourself into their shoes and go how is this asshat going to act? What how is this going to serve their ego? Why? Because there is no there there? I cannot stress that enough. There is absolutely no there there. There it is all ego there is nothing but ego. That is why they cannot change. That is why they will not change. That is why they’ll they’re manipulative. It’s all about ego defense. Me, me me I, I, I. More. My genitals. Seriously, that’s what it’s all about.

The smear campaign gets going because they’re behaving based on Well, that’s what I will do. That’s what I would do. So, they’re going to do that. So, I’m going to beat him to the punch and then they start and they’re crazy. And if they’re a dark triad if they’re crazy enough they’ll be the ones that end up getting a restraining order because they’re crazy. So, um so that’s why they do the smear campaign is because there’s no there’s nothing up here. Nothing but ego. Like seriously, they cannot relate to another person. They literally cannot put themselves into somebody else’s shoes. You and I can put ourselves in somebody else’s shoes and go oh, what that must feel like holy crap, and feel it and have empathy. There is none of that there, and any that they pretended to have It was just exactly that it was a pretense. It was a, an act. It was an illusion.

Okay. So, their whole smear campaign thing is based off of welll this is what I would do, they must be going to do this. So, I’m going to beat him to the punch. And then they go about doing the things that they would do because they’re heinous. They don’t understand that not everybody thinks or behaves the way they do. And when somebody thinks differently than they do or behaves differently than they do, it upsets their little applecart. Let me tell you because they’re very threatened by that.

Remember, we talked about how threatened the abusive parent, the toxic parent is, by the talented kid. Because they don’t want them to succeed. They don’t want them to do well. They don’t want them to outshine them. So, it’s, it’s kind of the same thing. If a spouse is not behaving the way that they would, oh, my gosh, it threatens them so badly. Anyway, the smear campaign is all ego based. Okay. That’s why they’re doing it. There’s there’s so much going on. They’re sadistic. Okay, this is what they would do. This is what they enjoy. Not what you would enjoy. I mean, normal, healthy people do not enjoy drama number one, unless it’s on the screen. Okay. So, um, but they are, they need drama to live seriously. They need drama The way the rest of us need oxygen. So, it’s a lot of drama. And it’s a popularity contest. It’s so when they start the smear campaign, it’s this power and control, and Ooh, can I get their family to abandon them? Can I get their support system to abandon them? So, there’s that element of power and control, isolation, and sadism. And they will lie. You know, they’ll say they’ll accuse since they are projecting, they will accuse the spouse, the one that’s divorcing them, male or female, doesn’t matter of the very thing that they’re doing. So, if they were the cheater, if they were the, you know, stole money, if they lied, and did XYZ, they’ll flip it around and say that the ex is the one that’s doing all of that, or did all of that, etc., etc., etc. And it’s again, its projection because it’s like, well, I would do that. So, they must have. Yeah, they really do think like that, guys. They really, really, truly do. And when I hear apologists go, oh, but they’re sick, and oh, they can’t change. No, they could, they refuse, they refuse. They’ll go to therapy until the therapist starts going, Okay, and what’s your part in this? And then they’re just like, nope, not having it. I’m perfect. There’s nothing wrong with me. I’ve never made a mistake in my life. My father actually said that. He actually his favorite quote was, I’ve never been wrong, only temporarily mistake and now realize this is when we were out in the middle of the forest. And our station wagon was high centered on a rock in the middle of a creek and Jesus Christ. Anyway, the point being, is that they are never wrong in their heads. Healthy, normal people are able, and most of us probably sit there and go, geez, I wish I could have done that better. Yeah, kind of screwed that one up, huh? Yeah. narcissists, don’t they, won’t they absolutely.…Their ego is driving the show. And it’s dangerous. It’s dangerous because egos are out of control. So that is what is driving the smear campaign.

So, there were a couple of really good articles that I pulled up from. What did I do? I just had my glasses there. They’re from Psychology Today. And this one is okay. Now I’m going to read that one later. What is the narcissist smear campaign? What is it tactics, and how to deal with it? And this is on choosing therapy.com. I thought this one was really good. So, I’m going to read this Who’s a by, written by Katie Gillis, and she’s an LCSW. And it was reviewed by Raji Abul Hossen. And he’s a medical doctor. So anyway, I thought this one was really good because it really covered the whole thing.

So, a narcissistic smear campaign is used to discredit another person by hijacking the narrative of the relationship after it is ended. A narcissist will spread lies and create embellishments about their victim, their target of abuse, in order to destroy the individual’s reputation. This is a common behavior for those with narcissistic personality disorder when they realize that they have lost control over the person. What is a narcissistic smear campaign? Narcissistic smear campaign is a narcissistic manipulation tactic used to harm a person’s reputation and isolate them from their support network. While this method is most commonly used by those with narcissistic personality disorder, smear campaigns are not that different from typical efforts to slander an individual, such as that between politicians and an election, however, the big difference is one conducted by a narcissist will be incredibly vindictive and persistent, they won’t stop. It’s like a dog with a bone. Often this is what a narcissist does at the end of the relationship. Elements of a smear campaign is vengeful, and there’s almost a perceived injury such as a threat to their pride that causes the narcissist to engage in the smear campaign. Well, yeah, because they’re all about power control. And when a target of abuse leaves, their ego can’t handle it. You’re leaving? How dare you? How I leave you, you don’t leave me that seriously the way they think. But they won’t leave; that’s I wish they would all just go to Mars, no oxygen, that would be so nice. Anyway, I’m sorry. I have no sympathy for them. They’re abusive, they’re hurtful. They’ve harmed people. They’ve killed people. They’ve killed dogs, they killed cats.

Kris Godinez  16:00

They’ve killed you know, I just,I’m not sorry. And I’m not going to be sorry. I’m not sorry. I really wish they were gone. Um, it is done overtly. And it can be also done covertly. I want to be very clear. Their purpose, their behavior, is often excessive smear campaigns are much more than the occasional talking behind someone’s back. These are persistent and consistent acts to harm another person’s reputation. It is done purposefully. It is done purposefully. They know what they’re doing. Don’t kid yourself. a narcissist knows what they’re doing. Their actions are not done by mistake, despite what they may say to others about just being concerned. I just wanted to warn you because I’m so concerned about so and so’s behavior. They’re acting crazy. Oh, God, does that one sound familiar, guys? Holy crap. All right. Um, it is persistent. Even when faced with backlash, such as someone not believing them or getting a restraining order against them, their behaviors persist. It contains narcissistic projection, which we talked about.

Many with NPD traits project their bad qualities on to others. If they lie, steal they, and steal, they accused the target of doing the same thing. Its calculated narcissists know who they can and cannot manipulate in their smear campaign. No person is off limits, but they usually have an idea of who will believe what lies.

Although caveat, I will say two things. They can be sneaky about it; they can be less overt. They can be very much the oh, Lord of the Rings, Worm tongue. That can be like worm tongue. You know, it’s like this dripping poison. Just, you know, just little comments, little comments. And here’s the thing you guys have to remember. The smear campaign has generally started months before you’re ready to leave. They know on some level that you’re out. They know, on some level, they do. And they will start the smear campaign before you’ve actually left. So, there is that I wanted to point that out.

Um, why narcissists use the smear campaign? Well, there are many reasons why narcissists use a smear campaign, and they can often vary depending on the nature of the relationship with the victim. Usually, they revolve around a need for revenge, a goal to discredit the target, and the narcissist’s own lack of compassion and empathy. They do it to protect their image. They’re afraid of being seen as less than they do it to maintain control. It may be a way to remain in control of a situation. If they feel they’re losing power over a person, this can cause a narcissist to go full force into a smear campaign in order to try to convince others to their side. So, it’s a popularity contest. That’s what I started to say. It’s, it’s, it’s kind of like when the divorce happens, or when the split happens. They literally are like, well, you’re either with me or against me. How about I’m not with you, and I don’t give a Frick what you do, buddy. Um, yeah, it’s they’re very much you got to choose, you got to take sides, you got to choose. And something I very much want to point out is, is that you cannot have mutual friends. You cannot. And it’s going to talk about this in this article a little bit. If you have mutual friends, you run the risk of them being flying monkeys. You also run the risk of them reporting, which is a flying monkey back to the abuser and telling them where you are, what you’re doing, who you’re seeing, where you’re working, etc., etc., etc. It’s dangerous. Do not have mutual friends. If you have somebody who goes, I’m Switzerland. How nice for you. Bye. We’re done. No, thank you. You know, because you cannot risk having one of the Switzerland types say something to the other person. Okay?

A lot of times when they start the smear campaign, if they are really unhinged, they’re dangerous. They really are. They will stalk they will go to extreme lengths to try to get you fired. They’ll try to do things to harm your relationship with your family. They’ll try to do things to make sure that you are thrown out of your apartment. I mean, it’s crazy cray cray we have entered cray-cray land. Hold on. Okay. All right.

They want to appear to be the victim. Many people with narcissistic traits believe they are doing what they need to do and aren’t behaving inappropriately. Often, such as in the case of ending of a relationship or a friendship, or an employer got to be clear about that. They are the ones being victimized. a smear campaign is used to further this false narrative that they have been wronged. And it’s also used to get revenge. When the person with NPD traits feels wronged. a smear campaign can be used to get revenge on the person for any perceived offense. Whether they do this by making a victim look bad to their boss, or their family members’ court system, or their social circle circles. narcissists create a sense of doubt about the individual as a part of their efforts for revenge. So, part of it is their narrative is that you’re crazy. Let’s just be clear. Their narrative is that you’re crazy. And you’re the problem, and you’re the reason and bla bla bla bla bla, the biggest mistake I see people making, and we’re going to get into this a little more when I talk about the five ways to survive this, but I just I just want to just drill this into your guys’ head. The biggest mistake I see people make when they’re dealing with somebody who is targeting them and smearing them and this that and the other thing is that the target of abuse starts trying to defend themselves. Stop, stop trying to defend yourself. Listen to me now; believe me later, people who are willing to believe the worst of you absolutely do not deserve the best of you. Let me say that again. People who are willing to believe the worst of you absolutely do not deserve the best of you. You cut them off. You owe them no explanation, period, period. And if they’re claiming to be your family, they should know who you are. Hmm, you hear what I’m saying? So be exceedingly cautious around people who either demand an explanation or side with the abuser, or want to remain mutual friends. No way you can’t afford that. You cannot afford that.

So when they get you on the ropes, okay, when they get you explaining yourself, so let’s loop this back to codependency, I want people to like me, I need to explain myself. I can’t. I don’t want Oh, they can’t think this of me. Ba, ba. Well, you cannot control what other people think. Let’s be clear. You cannot control what other people think. You have to know who you are. And no matter what the abuser has said and no matter who believes it, radio silence because what they’re doing is they’re poking the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear, poke the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear, poking the bear waiting for you to explode so that they can sit back and go Ah, see ya told you she was nuts. Told you he was crazy. Yeah, ah see, I’m right. Don’t play their game. The best way to win is to not play, and this is a game just like everything else they do. So, I just want to do bring that uphold on just a second to God. I need a haircut or something I don’t know. Anyway. Um, To get revenge, okay, we talked about that, too, sense of doubt.

To accomplish a goal or a victory. Because everything for an abuser is a win, it has to be a win, it cannot be a lose, it cannot be a draw has to be a win for them. Not all smear campaigns happen at the end of romantic relationships. Some occur in workplaces, especially if one is a boss or a coworker with narcissistic traits. For example, office smear campaigns achieve the goal of making the narcissist look good and the coworkers look bad. Okay. Examples of smear campaigns families, they target their own family is not okay, so targeting their own families not off limit when a narcissist is wrong. A narcissistic parent might use the smear campaign against an estranged child or the family scapegoat in order to distract others from the family dysfunction or discredit any allegations of of trauma or abuse. Romantic relationships, probably the most recognizable smear campaign, is the one that occurs against the narcissist’s ex-partner. This is often done as an act of revenge as the narcissist feels injured by this person ending the relationship Mmm, they’ll create lies in court. They’ll try to turn others in the family and circle of friends against them.

Kris Godinez  25:07

It’s much more than a breakup drama or high-conflict divorce as it is commonly labeled and often excuse it cannot be excused any more guys. Family court systems have to understand this is systematic. This is psychotic. Because healthy normal people don’t have time for a smear campaign. That’s a load of crap. And judges that fall for it really need to be absolutely taken off the bench. They really do because they should know better. I’m sorry. You’ve been in this business for how long you’ve seen how many divorces. Hello? You know, it just… don’t get me started. Friendships. Sometimes a narcissist may use a smear campaign against a friend in order to discredit and isolate them. A narcissistic friend will go out of their way to hurt the reputation of a friend who they feel has shamed them in some way. While many men are not familiar with this tactic and brushed it off as normal drama. a smear campaign is a severe form of bullying. It is not normal drama. Let me be clear, healthy, normal people don’t have drama, period. And I’ll tell you what, if somebody tries to start drama in my space, nope, I walk away, I have no problem shutting the door and going peace out. I’m not interested. So, there is that.

Work relationships. A narcissistic coworker may use a smear campaign against a colleague or office mate to elevate their position or reputation within the workplace. Similarly, a narcissistic boss could spread rumors about an employee to prevent them from succeeding, or about an ex-employee to prevent them from succeeding in their new role, or with the goal of making them look bad to other staff members or upper management because they are threatened.

It is very common to religious and spiritual cults. It is very common for cults to use smear campaigns against someone who they feel is putting the faith at risk by speaking out against them. They may use behavior modification on current members brainwashing in order to create a mutual and shared sense of doubt and disdain against the person who has left the cult shunning. shunning. So basically, it’s shunning. So, they’re not allowed to contact that person, that person if they are contacted, they will shame them try to bring them back into the fold. You know, you’re going to hell, you’re on the wrong path, blah, blah, blah, you know, that whole thing?

Okay so that is why they do that. This is why they smear is it’s all power and control. It’s all about manipulation. It’s all about a win that whole thing. So, let’s quickly, and yes, I will get to the questions. Let’s quickly talk about how to cope with all that. Yay, Team! Okay!

Tips for dealing with a narcissistic smear campaign that’s still in the choosing therapy.com One do not feed into their manipulation. As difficult as it may seem, staying calm and collected when dealing with a narcissist is essential. Sometimes if someone refuses to react, this can stop the smear campaign in its tracks. At the very least, it will usually prevent it from getting worse. fighting back against the smear campaign can trigger narcissistic rage, which will only increase the narcissist’s desire to maintain their vision vengeful efforts, so basically, it’s kind of a Pick Your Battles kind of thing.

So, narcissists are very easily injured narcissistic injury. And as I said, explaining to them or to the flying monkeys why you’re not what they said only plays into their game. So, you do not want to do that. It’s kind of like gray rock. You want to do gray rock. You don’t need to explain yourself. So, when a narcissist starts accusing you of stuff, especially if it’s in like text, or our family wizard, or whatever, do not respond. You are only legally responsible for responding to what is directly related to the divorce or directly related to the kids. That’s it. So, if they go on this novel of you did this, and you did that, and you’re a horrible person, do not respond to any of it. Don’t, and I know that little kid inside of you is going to be like, but, but, but… you got to be like no Little one, we’re going to walk away, hold my hand, we’re walking away, and you walk away, or have somebody else read the email and pick out the parts that you need to respond to. That’s another good way to deal with that.

Okay, don’t try to persuade others. This can be the one of the most frustrating things for victims of narcissistic smear campaigns unfortunately, trying to persuade someone that the information they’re being fed is false can have the opposite effect of making you look like the vindictive one. Those who believe in narcissists lies are not your true friends. Did I just say that? Yes, I did. Okay, pick your battles when dealing with a narcissist. smear campaign Pick Your Battles. If the narcissist is making claims about your children, family, or employment, those are important enough to address everything else, such as lies about you having an addiction or some other nonsense. Simply ignore it. Eventually, their lies will catch up with them and their vindictive behaviors will shine through. And that is very true.

So, I had a stalker at one point, that was very angry at me because their favorite target of abuse got away from them. And they tried to take me before the board, and I had to go before the board and defend myself and you bet your sweet bippy, I did. And as soon as the board was out, I went, and I got a restraining order against them. So, and then when the restraining order was up, they tried to do it again. And I simply came on air, and I said, You do this again, and it will be reinstated. So, you better back off. So, you’ve got to be ballsy. You cannot be afraid of them anymore. You can’t, and especially when they’re going after your livelihood, your family, your children, you know, if they’re doing things that are harmful to the kids, absolutely. You cannot be afraid, and I know this is hard because of the frickin court system. But yeah, okay, hold on. Let’s get back to, and then we’ll get to the questions, I promise.

Stay true to yourself. Staying true to yourself during this time period is crucial. a narcissist is doing everything they can to get you to react in order to justify their claims of you being crazy, bipolar, selfish, do not give them the satisfaction of reacting to their claims. Remember your worth trauma therapist, work the self-esteem workbook boundaries like a boss The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione, or Catherine Taylor. Basically, you need to really this is not the time to slack off on therapy, guys; either going to see a therapist or working the workbooks, you’ve got to because you’ve got to constantly remember who you are because they’re going to keep trying to tell you who you are, you’re not any of the things that they’re saying. Mirror work, do the mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, you are a great person, and none of the things that your ex is saying is true. And I love you and then walk out seriously. All right, um, model good behavior, whether it be remaining positive as a positive example to your children or just choosing to avoid stepping in the narcissist to the narcissist level, conducting yourself professionally and respectfully at all times is necessary. If you bash the person, others will question if they what they are hearing is true. So basically, you don’t want to say anything that you do not want to be repeated in court, basically. And this is hard because, again, our natural instinct is to go but, but, but you know, and that’s the inner child and to defend ourselves and to say, Well, they did this and they did that and nobody cares, people. Nobody cares. What is going to matter is you rising above not responding, not responding, because if they’re sending all of these crazy, crazy grams, though, you know, our family wizard and texts and things like that, and you’re simply responding to what is having to do with the kids. That’s going to really, hopefully, if you have a good judge, that’s going to show the judge you’re not responding, you’re not playing, you’re interested in the kid’s welfare, etc. So do not get down to their level. seek support from others. Stay in contact with loved ones provides you with much-needed support and guidance. However, cease contact with any mutual friends or colleagues who are acting as flying monkeys’ narcissistic enablers. Focus your energy on staying close to those who truly support you. When you learn about nasty things being said about you, you will need someone to lean on. Friends and family who are not part of the narcissist’s attempts at triangulation are the best resources. Limit unnecessary communication. We just talked about that consider therapy. We just talked about that. Okay, in my experience working with survivors of dysfunctional toxic relationships, a smear campaign is very real is a very real and very traumatic event for the target. I advise the advice I give to my clients often corresponds with many of the suggestions listed in this article.

Kris Godinez  34:18

My advice to everyone is to pay attention when someone seems angry or out for revenge, taking talking about their painful experience is one thing bashing another cruelly is unacceptable. While not all smear campaigns are as obvious, be mindful of how someone conducts themselves in regard to another person can help prevent the spread of cruel misinformation. So, what they’re talking about is you know, when somebody comes to you and starts gossiping, basically, so that that is that is what they do. This is gossip, they’re spreading gossip.

So, the next article is five steps to surviving a narcissistic smear campaign do not engage. Pick your battles. Know your Truth continue to conduct yourself professionally. We talked about that. You ask yourself, Is this communication or reply necessary a nasty text about how ugly you are? Ignore it. A text about childcare? Yeah, that warrants a reply. Construct an emotionless surprise, I’m sorry, reply, take the emotion out of it. Absolutely. Facts and figures. So, you’ve got to be Mr. Spock when you’re dealing with these types because if you give them nothing, they’ve got nothing to come back at you with. They’ll have to get more and more outlandish with whatever they’re doing. So lastly, make the reply brief, one or two sentences at the most. I also recommend waiting about four hours before replying unless it’s childcare or court-ordered, okay, like that. If its court ordered that you have to respond immediately, okay, fine. Other than that, given a chance to reflect your emotions and construct a professional reply. Decrease the common links we talked about that okay.

So basically, in essence, they are incredibly immature; they are incredibly tit for tat, tallionic, you know, you do this, an eye for an eye. I’m going to get you. I’m going to show you. I’m the one in power. I, I, I,  did you notice that? Um, so the smear campaign feels personal, but you have to understand is completely about them. Because they’re talking about themselves. So, and they’re wanting revenge, and they’re wanting power, and they’re wanting control, and they want to see, you know, it’s a popularity contest, who can they get to leave you basically is what they’re doing. So, okay, let’s dive into the questions shall we?

Why are smears so successful? Because we don’t ever teach people about narcissism and abuse? We don’t? How many of you guys knew about this stuff before you went through it? I’ll wait. They don’t talk about it in high school. They certainly don’t. And they should because abuse usually starts there. We don’t teach it in the colleges. When I was going through my master’s degree. I asked about personality disorders because I knew my dad had a personality disorder. And the answer was, oh, well, they’re going to get rid of those. Because remember, there was a huge fight between half of the APA and the other half of the APA. The APA wanted to get rid of half of the APA wanted to get rid of personality disorders, the other half clearly didn’t. And thankfully, won. And I’ll give you three reasons why because the half that wanted to get rid of them were probably disordered themselves. So, they were like, Oh, well, you know, we can’t talk about it. And oh, well, you know, it’s a choice. And, you know, we don’t want to make them wrong. And I’m like. I will make them wrong. As long as the day is long. I will, if they’re harming people if they’re hurting people, if they’re killing kids, guy in Ohio, don’t get me started. If there, you know, killing animals and using that as an intimidation. Yeah, I will make them wrong. As long as the day goes on. You bet. You don’t like it. Don’t watch my channel. That’s my attitude. Sorry. And I’m not sorry. So, there it is. Oh, I’m on a tear today, aren’t I. Oh, anyway. Um, so that is why people are not onto it. They haven’t been taught. It’s not really been. It’s just now starting to hit the mainstream. And unfortunately, there is these apologists out there, like I said, who were like, Oh, poor narcissist. I’m like, No, not when you’ve seen what I’ve seen, personally and professionally. Back off, you know what I’m saying. So, we need more education. We need more education. It needs to be talked about, it needs to be out in the open, people need to be sharing their experiences, people need to get this is not just a one-off. This is not I’m sorry. I have close to 30,000 followers, and Shahida Arabi has got close to I don’t know, 40,000 followers or more. Same thing with Kim Saeed and then, you know, other speakers that speak out about this, this is not a one-off. It needs to be educated. It needs to be shared, it needs to be talked about. it needs to be discussed. It needs to be brought out into the open, and it needs to be people need to be aware of what to do when one of these jack wagons start trying to you know, harm you hurt you abuse, you discard, you devalue you, you know, smear, you stalk you, etc., etc., etc. So, yeah, it’s not discussed enough in depth. And I think people need to understand that if somebody comes to you and starts smearing somebody or gossiping, okay, let’s call it gossiping because that’s kind of what it is. Starts gossiping and going, oh, did you know that so and so said such and such, you need to stop that cold seriously. When somebody comes to me and tries to start something, and it doesn’t happen very often because clearly, they know how I’m going to respond. But if somebody comes to me into trying to start something. I will stop them and be like get them on the phone. You know what, I’ve got my phone. Where’s my phone? Let you know. Let me just get them on the phone for you right now. Let’s just see if that actually happened. They stop it. They Oh no, and they start backpedaling. So basically, you want to you want to nip gossip in the bud. You do because it’s especially now if it’s happy gossip like so and so got a promotion. That’s great. That’s fabulous. I love it. That’s fabulous. But if it’s a negative gossip, if they’re if they’re casting aspersions, you nip it in the bud, you know what, I’m really not interested in hearing this. But why? Because it’s not coming from the source. And then you walk off. You don’t have to participate. You don’t have to play it.

So why do so many people believe this because they were not privy to it and never see through them? Okay, flying monkeys are one of two things people who believe the abuser are one of two things. They are either just pathetically uneducated, ignorant, do not understand abuse, do not understand how charming some of these abusers can be, and how dangerous they are. I and or they’re a narcissist themselves, and they’re siding with the aggressor, which is an inner child thing to do. So, there’s a lot there’s multi-levels going on here.

Um, what can we do in response if it’s a part of a community we want to belong to? But this narc smeared me? Well, here’s the thing, if you rise above and you just be you, people will figure it out. Seriously. When I had that crazy person go to my board, I was like, Okay, bring it, you know, all I can do is be me. All I can do is speak the truth. And hopefully, I’ll end up okay. And I did so, and I was I worried about my community. Yeah, a little bit. But I also knew the people who know me knew that she was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And yeah, so anyway, the point being is you be you. And you do not allow the intimidation because this is intimidation. This is bullying. This is bullying on frickin steroids. So, you do not allow the intimidation to stop you. And like I said, people who are willing to believe the worst of you do not deserve the best of you. So, you just go and be you.

Um, when a narc smears their target, do they eventually believe the lies they’ve told? Absolutely. That not eventually, immediately, immediately. I mean, they will. You can watch them tell a lie. I can’t even begin to describe it’s like those micro-expressions. And you can kind of see them doing somersaults in their head, going, no, this is true. No, yeah, this is true. Like, immediately, like, it’s not even eventually, I’m going to believe it. No, immediately they believe it immediately. Because it’s their lie. And they’re God in their universe. You know what I’m saying? Um, is it like, they think something about their target, and they make it the truth? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s a hard one for people to wrap their heads around. And I think that’s in part why people are like, Oh, they would never do that. Because this is absolutely so mind-blowing. It is. It’s like, yeah, they absolutely lie and believe 100% what they’ve just lied about, seriously. And, and they twist the truth, and they twist reality to fit their narrative. 100% So if their narrative is you’re a bad person, you’re a bad parent, you’re this, you’re that you’re The other thing, they will convince themselves 110% That that is true. And every lie they say is going to try to fit that narrative to get as many people to believe that as possible so that they surround themselves with a bunch of Yes, men, or Yes, women that tell them, oh yeah, you’re right. Oh, yeah, what you’re thinking is true. That’s what they do. That’s what they do. That’s what cult leaders do.

Kris Godinez  44:18

Okay, if the narcs lies are found out by the flying monkeys, will they abandon the narc? It depends. So sometimes they do, and sometimes they don’t know. When they do abandon the narc is generally because they were ignorant and uneducated and did not understand the true nature of abuse did not understand the true nature of a dark triad or a narcissist. You know, and that’s the other thing that bothers me. It’s like, well, I don’t think that necessarily we should be doing a full course of psychology in high school. I think it would be a really good idea to talk about these things. There should be a psychology class in high school. There really should be some sort of psychology, at least going through the diagnoses and kind of hitting on what they are, what their traits are and what it looks like and this that and the other thing, and then people can decide from there whether they want to go into psychology or not. Plus, the fact that would give them a really good base to know what to watch out for. So, um, I’m sorry, I forgot your question. Um, did he eventually believe the lies? No, I think I talked about that.

Okay. Oh, well, they abandoned lark, the narc. If they are educated, they will. If so, what happens to the narc when everyone’s gone? And what does the narc try to… wait? What does what did the narc try to achieve with this? So, narcissists cannot ever conceive of losing. It’s not in their wheelhouse. They can’t realize. So, a good stratatitian will look at all angles, okay? And they’ll be like, you know, oh, this is a Kobayashi Maru. I’m not going to I’m not going to win. There’s no way to win this. Right. Kobayashi Maru was in Star Trek. Go look it up. Anyway. Um, you know, in a healthy person would be like, Okay, it’s a no-win situation. All right, well, then I will do what I can to mitigate, I will do what I can to protect, I will do what I can. Do you see where I’m going with that. Whereas a narcissist never considers any situation a Kobayashi Maru. It’s always like, I’m going to win at all costs, and usually at all cost means the kids, the ex, the friends, the family, the whatever, they don’t care, you’ve got to understand when you’re dealing with a narcissistic abuser, they truly zero clucks given, you know what I’m saying? scorched earth policy, they would rather absolutely burn everything to the ground and be left there starving than to admit they were wrong. Or admit that they were lying or whatever, so okay.

Okay, what happens to the narc when everyone is gone? Okay, so what that is, is a collapsed narcissist, a collapsed narcissist. So, a collapsed narcissist is one who’s lost. And it can, it depends, it really truly depends on how crazy they are and how psychopathic they are. Because usually what will happen is if everyone abandons them, and they get hit with, like, say, a restraining order, it’ll devastate them, because at least temporarily, because they realize that they’ve lost, you know, they realize that they don’t have their cheering section anymore. They don’t have, and the law is not on their side. And this that and the other thing, if they are really truly crazy, though, if they’re really more psychopathic than they are narcissistic, they can be dangerous, they absolutely can be dangerous. So, And either way, you can never let your guard down. So generally, generally, one of two things will happen if they’re truly dangerous, they’ll intensify the harassment, and they’ll intensify the crazy, which means you need to be careful, get a restraining order, you know, make sure that you have friends and family who are checking on you that kind of thing. Or they will be a collapsed narcissist. And they will fall into a deep depression for at least a little while. Not very long, but long enough so that you get some breathing room. And they’re less likely to try it again if they realize that it’s going to not benefit them. So, remember narcissists, just not dark triads, but just straight-out narcissists. it’s all about the win for them. And if it doesn’t give them what they want. They generally don’t try it again. If they’re psychopathic, like my Stalker was, they tried it again. Until they realized, oh, shoot, the same thing is going to happen. So, you know what I’m saying? So, you just got to be careful either way.

So, what happens to the narc when everybody is gone? And what did the narc try to achieve with this? I’m not sure I understand that last part of the question. Basically, what narcs want to achieve is they want everybody on their side, like literally everybody. And when they’re found out when people start, you know, when blinders come off, and they’re like, oh, oh, okay, you know, that wasn’t their goal. Their goal was to manipulate and control, so if you could clarify that last part of the question, I would really appreciate it. Or you can IM me after the show. Okay.

I am part of a smear campaign started by my mom. I tell my relatives about how hurtful it is. They told me they love My mom, that she is bored and lonely. Oh, good God, no. So, here’s the deal. Stop telling your relatives. It’s not going to do any good. It’s not going to do any good, especially when you get the response like that. They’re apologists. I’m sick of apologists. I’m sorry. I’ll tell you what, if somebody, anybody, had listened, I wouldn’t have gone through as much as I went through with my dad. They all made excuses for him. Oh, you know, he’s stressed out. Oh, you know, he’s older. Oh, he’s from a different generation. Oh, you know, baba, baba, baba. And I’m like, Are you kidding me? You know, Oh, you got to love your father. Oh, you’ve got to love your no, you don’t you absolutely do not its… love does not hurt. Love is not hurtful if it hurts. It ain’t love, period. So um, okay, I can’t get them to see my pain. They’re not going to. Why do relatives defend the person starting the smear campaign? Because they’re either narcissists themselves or they do not understand the true nature of narcissistic abuse. And anyone who is siding with an abuser needs to be X out of your life. Absolutely. 110% you do not owe your abuser or the relatives anything. In fact, the more you try to explain, the crazier you’re going to look. So, get with a good therapist. Get into trauma therapy, work the workbooks Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, The Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor.  Work on those and stop trying to explain things to your relatives you’re looking for support from a dry well. Oftentimes family members do not want to take a look at it. Because then they have to look at their behavior. And they have to look at the family system. And they don’t want to admit that the family is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And that was a large part of what was going on with my family is that when I was you know, telling my mom what my dad was doing, you know, he was molesting me. She was like making excuses and you know, all of this stuff, and I’m just like, What the frick is going on here? Well, her family was screwed up. Her mom was a narcissist. She had been molested. So, I mean, it explains it, does not excuse it. And it’s probably because the family members have got something in their particular situation that they don’t want to deal with. So, go stop going to a well, that’s dry. That’s why I got into therapy in the first place. So, I had somebody that I could talk to Ruth Hornaday and Chico was awesome. She’s probably not even around anymore. But, you know, it was like somebody who believed me and somebody who would listen and validate, you know, the relatives, they’ve got an agenda. They’ve got an agenda, anybody defending an abuser? You know, if somebody comes up and says, Hey, my abuser is doing XY and Z, and they go, Oh, they’re just bored. Oh, they’re just lonely. Oh, it’s okay. Ah, they’re as bad as the abuser Oh, get away, get away, get away, get away, get away, stop going to a well, that’s dry. It’s not only dry but also poisoned and salted. Stop going to a well; that’s not going to give you the water you need. The water you need is unconditional support. Unconditional Love. Probably a trauma therapist, or a support group would probably be the way to go. So, there is that.

Is a narcissistic, the wait is a narcissist smear campaign and a boarder smear campaign the same or different? Because both do it depending on how severe the BPD Yeah, no, they’re very similar. So, remember, you’ve got to remember borderline personality disorder is called borderline because it borders on psychotic thinking.

Kris Godinez  53:54

And it has traits of all the major personality disorders and borders on all the personality disorders. And one of those personality disorders is narcissism. So yeah, the smear campaign from them is very similar. It’s very revenge motivated. the more severe the BPD, the more revenge tit for tat tallionic. The thinking is, so it is very, very, very similar. So yeah, absolutely. And basically, you deal with it the same way you do not engage. You give them nothing. You take good care of yourself; you just rise above, and you cut out anybody who’s a mutual friend because they’re going to just be a flying monkey. So anyway, there is that.

All right, my love’s so that is it for today. I hope that was helpful. Next week, we are going to be talking about Dependent Personality Disorder. What is dependent personality disorder that happens to a lot of people with codependency, so we’re going to talk about that, and you know how to start working on that and all that sort of good stuff. So, you guys go have a great week, take good care of yourselves Drink plenty of water. It’s going to get really hot here in Phoenix. So, I will talk to you next week. Have a great week, guys talk to you later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.