Have you ever wondered why the other parent did not protect you? Have you wondered why people just allow abuse to occur? What gets in the way of people acting to protect? These and many more questions will be answered in this week’s episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez discussing When People Do Nothing!

Links to resources mentioned in this episode:

• When Good People Do Nothing
• Supreme Court Overturns Stalker’s Conviction In First Amendment Case Over ‘True Threats’
• Child Abuse and the Role of Parental Denial

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

So, I’m doing the Portland meet and greet today at two o’clock very excited. Portland has changed a lot since John and I lived here. We lived here in the mid-1990s. Nine think we left in 2001. Lots of homeless I got chased by a homeless man today. That was fun. And when I say fun, I mean terrifying. So, there was that Hello, darlings. Um, yeah, that was kind of weird. It was it was a very strange morning. So, we got up to take the dogs down and, you know, walk them along Tom McCall Park. And Tom McCall Park has changed a lot. There was a lot of graffiti, lots more garbage, lots more homeless people. So, this one homeless guy sees me and John coming with the dogs. And he’s like, Oh, she’s a good person. She’s a good person. And then, like, he starts yelling about losing $12,000. I mean, it was obviously mental health issues, probably schizophrenia, possibly borderline with psychotic features. Who knows. But then, as we were walking back on our second walk, this homeless guy just started following me. And as I was running across the street, he started running across the street. And then John had to place himself between me and him. And he finally just kept walking. It was really weird.

So yeah, the homeless population definitely has increased. And it is an issue not just in here. But in Portland, but literally everywhere, the homeless population has increased, and there are no services, and why? Well, the homeless population doesn’t have any money. And politicians are not going to do anything about it, because who’s going to finance it? People don’t want to finance it because there’s no money to be made. And it’s really annoying. And it really makes me angry because a lot of these homeless people are mentally ill. And can they be dangerous? Yeah. If the voices told them to hurt somebody if they have command hallucinations, you betcha. And I would have to say both of those guys had command hallucinations. So anyway, there was there that, but Portland is beautiful. And it is fun to be here.

So, I am looking forward to seeing people today. That’s awesome. Um, okay, so current events, aside from the homeless issue, which is nationwide. Apparently, the supreme idiot Court decided that they were going to loosen up the definition of stalking. This is not okay. So basically, they’re saying, Oh, well, it’s intent. They didn’t intend to terrorize you. They didn’t intend to scare you. That wasn’t their intent. Okay, back the hell up Bipidi Bobbidi back the hell up, biotch. So, here’s my issue with that this person. Apparently, this is in Forbes magazine. See if I can find the article. Forbes magazine. There it is, for a Supreme Court overturned stalkers conviction in First Amendment case over true threats. So, this guy sent these messages to this singer. Apparently, the Supreme Court ruled in favor to seven to two in favor of Billy Raymond Counterman, a man who was convicted in Colorado of stalking after sending repeated messages to female musician Coles Whelan that made her fear for her safety, including one that suggested he knew where she was, and told her to die and eff off permanently. countermine was convicted based on an objective test that considered whether a reasonable person would believe his comments constituted true threats, which, unlike most speech, aren’t protected by the First Amendment. But his attorney argued that the Supreme Court should instead impose a subjective test that takes the speaker’s intent into account. Okay, if you’re dealing with somebody who’s crazy, and they’re stalking, their intent is to harm, let’s just be clear here. So, 90% of communication is verbal and auditory, okay, and then of course, there’s the micro expressions center, etc, etc. When you are receiving threatening emails, threatening texts, threatening mail threatening anything, you can’t hear or see what they’re doing. Okay? So, if you’re feeling threatened, perception is everything you ask any good therapist, perception is everything. If you’re feeling threatened and you’re feeling threatened, it doesn’t matter what their intent was. healthy, normal people that are not dark triads, or cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, hearing voices telling them what to do. Do not, listen to me now, believe me later, send texts that say things like die now, eff off permanently, I would take that as a threat.

I had one on YouTube a few years ago that I ended up calling the police and saying okay, this is. I’m threatened by this. This is they’re saying things like you’re going to end up dead if you keep doing this. How else am I supposed to take that? You know, there’s no context. So, they’re saying, Oh, it’s subjective. No mother clucker. It is not. If somebody is saying they’re going to hurt you. They know where you are. They want you dead. They want you know, etc. That’s a frickin threat, and for the supreme idiocy court to say that no, that’s not, and that’s protected under freedom of speech. That’s a load of crap. That is misogynistic. And that’s not just misogynistic. Women are not the only ones who get threats like this, guys do, too. And what pisses me off more than anything else? Is that when a man is being threatened by a woman, the police do not take it seriously. Oh, well, you’re a guy. Oh, well, but no, it doesn’t matter. Crazy is crazy. Gender aside, crazy is crazy. So, if somebody is crazy enough to start sending out threats, then yeah, so I would strongly suggest writing your senators and saying, Ah, this is not okay. This is directly affecting anybody who’s got a restraining order against one of these cuckoos. This is directly affecting anybody who is in a domestic violence situation where their ex is saying things and guess what, gaslighting? This is gas? This is gaslighting. 110%. Oh, my intent wasn’t to terrorize. Die now. eff off permanently. How would you take that? I take that as you know where I am. You’re threatening me. You’re basically saying you’re going to harm me. Oh, but that wasn’t my intent. That’s gaslighting at its worst. It really is. And it makes me angry because now this is giving carte blanche to all of the abusers out there to be as heinous as they want to be. And the Supreme Court, the courts are just going to go oh, well, you know their intent. They’re saying that that wasn’t their intent. Well, if it wasn’t their intent, why were they writing it? See where I’m going with that? I have a huge problem with this. This is This is dangerous to survivors of domestic violence.

This absolutely is this is 110% the wrong message to be sending. We need to be sending letters to the Supreme Court. We need to be sending letters to our senators, we need to be doing something about this because it’s so easy for the defendant to come back in and go oh, well, that wasn’t my intent. Oh, I was just kidding. Oh, I did. Oh, well. But when you’re reading something, you’re not hearing it. You’re not seeing it. You know. So, what is their intent? You can only take it off of what it says. And I think this is a disservice to survivors. It’s a disservice to people who are dealing with stalkers. stalkers are dark triads, they’re narcissistic, psychopath Machiavellian, so I can guarantee you all of them that have restraining orders are going to go running out and going, Oh, wasn’t my intent. I was just kidding. Screw you. That just pisses me off. It really does. And, and there’s a political aspect, obviously to this too, because they’re trying to make it easier for people to send threats to political people. And I’m just like, you know, what, how about we all just have manners? How about we all just stop treating each other horribly? How about we just stop being stupid? It just. I hate the Supreme Court. I really do. They’re making bad decisions. They’re, they’re doing things that are harming other people. And that is the devil. We’re going to get into that today. So, here’s the deal. If you see somebody doing something harmful, like the Supreme Court, you don’t want to just sit by and go, Oh, it’s too big.

Kris Godinez  09:22

I can’t handle it. I can’t do it. You can. If enough of us get in together and write letters and let people know that we’re upset and it’s not okay, change can happen. And this plays into what I am talking about today, which is when people do nothing, so.

Okay, now we’re diving into our topic. So, a topic that I got today was from several people going but why did my other parents stand by and do nothing? Why did my teacher do nothing? Why did this person who knew about the abuse Do nothing? So, we’re going to talk about that. So, I pulled up a couple of articles on Psychology Today and one from Where’s this one from? Mentalhelp.net. But let’s start with the Psychology Today one. So, this is When Good People Do Nothing on Psychology Today was published in 2020 September 15. And bystander intervention versus bystander apathy, decades of research by psychologists like Latane and Darley have identified the steps that prevent people from intervening to help versus the circumstances, circumstances under which they stand up. So that you can get to the information that particular study on this page, which is what I like. So basically, they have a graph and in the graph, it says, okay, the emergency happens, and then people notice the event, but what stops them is they’re distracted, they’re in a hurry. They don’t want to get involved. They just don’t want to get involved. I’m in a hurry. I got to go do this. So, they don’t do anything. The other thing that happens is they interpret the event as an emergency. But they, again, they, they talk themselves out of it, oh, it wasn’t really that bad. Oh, it wasn’t really this. It wasn’t really that. And I’ll give you a great example. My mother-in-law calls us, and this was years ago, and says, Oh, I saw this kid in the parking lot yelling that this guy wasn’t his dad. And I’m like, did you call the police? And she was like, oh, no, I didn’t want to get involved. I would rather call the police and have it be his dad and the kid just being acting out or whatever, than to not call the police and have this guy be a, you know, child trafficker. So. So she convinced herself it wasn’t an emergency, and that the kid was really just, you know, that guy’s son and etc., etc. So, this is, like I said, years ago if I had known I would have Yeah.

Okay. And emergency happens, people assume responsibility. But what ends up happening is diffusion of responsibility, have failed to assume personal responsibility. So, this is like, in the case of Kitty Genovese, in New York City, in the 60s, she was murdered in front of literally hundreds of people, her apartment building had windows, people were seeing her being stabbed. All of them assumed that somebody else was going to call the cops. Because they didn’t want to get involved. Oh, well, there’s a lot of people, somebody else will do it. No, no, I would much rather, again, be the 20th person to call the police than to not call the police and somebody gets hurt. So again, this is a lot of that fight, flight, freeze, or faun, a lot of freezes involved with this. And we’re going to get into why the good parent doesn’t get involved. This is all kind of playing into this. So, stay with me on this one. Okay. So then, okay, so then emergency happened knows appropriate form of assistance, but what stops it is a lack of knowledge, lack of competence, can’t offer appropriate help, so it doesn’t know what to do. So, you know, they go, Oh, I don’t know what to do. So, I’m just not going to do anything. So, emergency happens, and this is the last one, implement decision. Okay. So, what stops it is danger to self-legal concept concerns, embarrassment, or the cost of helping are too high. So, this is going to play into why parents do not protect their kids. Okay, hold on. Yeah, many complain, few act. That’s and that’s the thing if everyone acted, we wouldn’t be having the issues we’re having right now, with our protection from stalkers happening. So, this is why it’s important to speak up. This is why it’s important to act in mass. It’s like even one voice even.

Do you remember the Lord of the Rings? To remember when Frodo was just giving up hope and like, I’m so little, I don’t know how I can do this. And it was, I can’t remember what it was Galadreal or if it was Gandalf, but they said to them, it was like, yes, but your voice makes a difference. You make a difference. So even though it’s just one of you, you make a difference. So don’t give up that idea that you make a difference. You do make a difference. Okay, so hold on.

So, um, let me get over to, all right, Child Abuse and the Role of Parental Denial. So, this is by Dr. Schwartz. Allen Schwartz, PhD. This December 11 2009 on mental help.net. And so, the question was, you know, why did my parents do nothing? Okay? Denial is a powerful, powerful and primitive defense mechanism someone who is dependent, so remember, we talked about that last week, somebody who is totally dependent, codependent, you know, can’t see their way out of this relationship, is financially dependent on the abuser is emotionally just brainwashed by the abuser frightened. And themselves, a victim of abuse can remain silent and not even see or hear the abuse in order to maintain the desperately needed relationship with the abuser. In a way, it is a variation of the old saying, hear no evil, see no evil, well, people do hear it and see it and fail to act.

So, this is important, guys. Because when we’re raised in a toxic family, and we have a family member that’s abusing us, and our other parent does nothing or worse, comes up with a ton of reasons why they’re not going to stop the abuse. What is the message that that sends to that kid? And ain’t good. Let me just be clear on that. The message that that sends to that kid is I’m not valuable. I’m not worth protecting. I’m not, you know, I don’t mean anything to either parent. One parent uses me as a beating post. The other one is just allowing it to happen. So personal experience. My mom did that. She absolutely did. And I talked about it in my book. I tell …where do I have my book somewhere? No, of course not. Of course, I don’t. Um, so in what’s wrong with your dad? I talked about it. She sacrificed her kids on the altar of security. Because Oh, well, if I leave him, I We won’t have any money and you’ll starve and this that and the other thing. Okay. Well, in the meantime, he’s beating the crap out of me, and he’s sexually molesting me. So, I think I’d rather starve. Thanks. You know, so it was in then, of course, if you play it back to her connection, her mother was an abuser. Her mother was a narcissist. Her mother abandoned her constantly, like physically abandoned her constantly, and left her to be abused by other adults. So, it makes sense as to why the parent does this because they’re replaying their childhood stuff now. Does it excuse it? Hell? No. Hell no, it does not excuse it not in any way, shape, or form. But it does explain it.

So, hold on, let’s go on with this. Okay, both abuser and spouse can be mentally ill people who collude out of a mutually shared sadism. Now, that is also a possibility. In other words, there are a few people who can get a sense of pleasure out of out of treating children abusively, yes, that can occur. Over the years, I’ve known a few cases in which the wife was in such deep was in such deep need to avoid sexual relations that they preferred that their husband engage in audible relations with the daughter. This is usually unconscious it with full denial and operation. Absolutely. 110%. And I think that’s what was going on with my mom. I think a part of her was like, Oh, good. I don’t have to do it. Seriously, you know, because like I said, she and I talked about this after my dad dropped dead. May he roast in hell. So, you know, it’s like, that’s what we that’s what we talked about. And yeah, there was an aspect of that going on. And again, when she was six years old, she was molested by a step-grandfather. So, this totally is starting to make sense to me. It does not excuse it, it does not excuse it. I absolutely will hold her feet to the fire on that one. You know, it’s like okay, and you should have protected me, and you should have you know, so. Okay, hold on.

Kris Godinez  19:14

Um, okay, another case is chronic and severe drug and alcohol abuse loosened the inhibitions that otherwise sober people and sensible people would have. So, they do things that they would not normally do. Again, it explains it, it does not excuse it. There are parents who have been raised in strict and abusive environments, then repeat the pattern once they are parents, the vicious cycle of abuse is probably the major cause of domestic violence in the United States. So, it’s interesting that, again, it goes back to family of origin generational trauma 110%. So, okay, so there are reasons why the other parent does nothing, and usually, it has to do with their family of origin and who’s running the show. It would be their inner child, and their inner child is all about staying safe. And their inner child is helpless, right? And their inner child doesn’t want to get involved in their inner child doesn’t want to get in trouble. Interesting, because if they had confronted the abuser, what would have happened? Well, they would have gotten the beating, they would have gotten the sexual abuse, they would have gotten the verbal abuse. So, it makes sense. It doesn’t make me what’s the word I’m looking for? I can have compassion for that. It’s like, wow, that sucks. And you had no business having kids. Seriously. If you could not stand up for that child and say no to the abuser, you had no business having kids, Period. Period, you know. So generational trauma, generational trauma, so it’s like the grandparents abused, this parent abused. If this kid doesn’t go, get help. They’re going to abuse if they’re not conscious, which a lot of times they’re not, so there is that.

Okay, so the next article is when one parent is hurtful and the other stands by this is by peg Streep. This is on psychology today. This was posted July 11, 2019. Okay, not long ago, I got this message from a woman now in her mid-50s. For years I focused on my tyrannical father and how afraid of him I was. Mind you; my two brothers were scared of him too. But they dealt with it by being the boys he wanted them to be. I was paralyzed, voiceless, and had to work hard at disappearing from view.

But that didn’t stop him from picking on me mercilessly for being an embarrassment to him. It was only when I got into therapy that I started to realize my mother’s role wasn’t passive. There’s nothing passive about standing by and watching your husband abuse your children. So, 100% Correct. She isn’t alone. I often hear this from daughters whose fathers either stood by or retreated to safety of a den or workshop or hid behind a newspaper, or even worse, encourage their children to be accepting and understanding of the abuser. This was the emotional crucible for Jenna, now age 60. I think my dad loved me in a way. But he also left me utterly confused about loyalty and trust. My mother was hugely critical of me and snapped at me unfairly and constantly. She’d never let an opportunity go by to put me down. Or alternatively, ignore me. If I messed up, she’d go on and on about how I was a failure. If I did good or succeeded she’d pretend it didn’t happen or tell me it wasn’t important. When I got older, I started to push back; my father would step in, he’d appear to acknowledge that I was being hurt. But then he told me to placate her or apologize. He’d say, Oh, it’s just the way she is. Or she’s a good person deep down inside or something that made me feel as though he’d sold me down the river. That was as damaging in the end as my mother’s sniping, so 110% I cannot tell you the number of times my mother made me apologize to my father for him hitting me. Let me just say that again. Oh, it was your fault. Oh, you need to apologize to him. Oh, his feelings are hurt. I’m sorry, what? Yeah, that’s not Oh, K. Not okay. In any way, shape, or form. So yeah, the other parent will seemingly kind of go Oh, yeah, I understand. And oh, well, but that’s just the way they are. Ah, no, no, absolutely. 110% not you stand up for that kid. You stand up for that kid. Because that kid has no voice. And again, the reason the parent doesn’t is they’re afraid of the punishment that the abuser is going to get out to them. Yep. So Okay.

Um, when mom is firmly on Team Dad or vice versa, the daughter or son usually struggles with feelings of being singled out and ganged up on and not heard and not believed and not valued and not trusted and not. Yeah, that’s basically it. It’s like not heard, not believed, not trusted, not valued. It’s a betrayal. It is a huge, huge betrayal. That’s especially true if the parents play favorites or use scapegoating. To keep children in check. That kind of dynamic creates a very specific kind of damage. But the parent is bystander or one who acknowledges but palliates, I have to look that word up; creates a deep mistrust of others, and even distrust of love in which the child can last a deep distrust of love, which can last long into adulthood. Age 43 wrote, my mother is my father’s staunchest defender. My father is a control freak and bully, but she considers him strong, she thinks his put-downs are a way of keeping us from getting too full of ourselves. His criticisms a way of motivating us, his authoritarian style the mark of a man who knows his mind, I don’t think she is cruel by nature. She is meek and afraid, but she just gave up her own thoughts. It has taken me years to really understand that loving someone does not require you to lose your soul. And that how she treated me was about her, not me, I still have trouble trusting people and feeling safe. 110% The emotional confusion created by the bystander parent is very real and can complicate the process of recovering from toxic or damaging childhood experiences. Okay, am I focusing on my father because I can’t bear to blame my mother? That’s a question I received a few weeks ago from a reader who would believe that her issue with her father was with her father until she began to read my book, daughter detox, recovering from an unloving mother, and reclaiming your life. Let me just say this again, daughter detox recovering from an unloving mother, and reclaiming your life. She had always seen her father as the villain of the piece. But she began to see that what she considered her mother’s passivity was much more than that. She wrote to me to say that she was surprised by the level of betrayal, that she felt.

This realization that my mother was being active and not passive has thrown me for a loop in a weird way. I am angrier with her at the moment for doing nothing that I am for him for doing something isn’t that strange? Well, no, it’s not. It’s hard enough to confront the fact that one parent isn’t treating you as he or she should. But to focus on the roles both parents played in your treatment takes it to a whole other level. So basically, when you are working on your family of origin, hugely important, don’t just focus on the abuser, focus on who was standing around, who didn’t do anything. Who did jack diddly squat, what the eff was going on with that? See where I’m going with that. And it’s like, really, really, it’s like kneading dough. It’s like getting through it all. It’s like, you know, let’s get this. Let’s, let’s figure out all of the roles here.

So, abuse cannot happen in a vacuum abuse has to be allowed. And it has to be done in secret or with denial or whatever. So, who was around who didn’t protect you? Who didn’t speak up? Who was a bystander who played the victim? Who did all this? And that’s something to work on because none of this abuse was because of you. Let me just say that again. None of the abuse that any of us went through was because of us. It was because of the other people 110%. Okay, hold on. I will get to the questions in just a second. Okay. Okay. Takes it to a whole other level. Okay. It’s no wonder that some daughters choose to look away as best they can. This is what Greta share. I totally see my mother as the victim. And while I’m unhappy with how she treats me, I honestly feel she can’t help it. Because my father is super controlling. No, she could help it. This has caused a huge rift with my older sister, who sees my mother as a harpy who focuses on her father’s faults, has always berated him for not being a good enough provider, or anything else, and is cruel to her and me. She has very little to do with her mother and skips family visits and takes Dad out on her own. She and I have become distanced and estranged without declaring war as our parents age. She thinks making mom a victim is sick stuff on my part. I don’t know what to do. I just want everyone to get along. Oh, God, and that is it.

Kris Godinez  28:52

Kids just want to be loved. Kids are light little beings that just want love. And they just want everybody to be happy. And they just want to be able to play. And they just want to be able to be enjoyed and enjoy other people. That’s really what kids want. So, if you sell yourself to sell to get peace, right, you’re not going to have peace. You’re not, you know, you think, Oh, if I do this, it’s going to it’s going to be peaceful. Maybe it will stop, maybe they won’t yell, maybe they won’t. But in the long run, you’ll just start getting smaller and smaller and smaller and liking yourself less and less and less. And eventually, you’re going to be gone. And you don’t want that. Okay. That’s what these people are doing when they’re placating an abuser. They’re losing themselves every single time. Every single time. Hold on a second. Let’s get back to this article.

Okay, it’s worth saying worth saying from a cultural point of view. It’s easier to be open about an unloving father than it is to talk about, and unloving flies in the face of all the mother myths that all women are nurturing no, They are not, that mothering is instinctual. No, it is not that all mothers love their children. No, they do not. Anecdotally, at least, there is much more denial involved when it’s the mother who is abusive and cold, uncaring, narcissistic, or manipulative. And that’s true. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true. And yes, there are some crazy mother clickers out there. You bet yet Oh, narcissistic dark triads stalkers? You bet. Which is why I’m so angry about the idiot court because it’s like you mother. Write your senators. Okay. I will get to the question. I’m almost done with this article, hold on.

Third player your parents’ marriage, it is impossible to begin to understand the dynamics of your parents’ relationship. When you are a child, and remains difficult even into adulthood. We never become peers but always remain offspring. And especially in in dysfunctional relationships. That dynamic never change in a healthy mom dad kids’ relationship that mom and dad realize the kids are growing up and are adults in and of themselves. And so, the relationship grows in an adult way. But toxic, people always want the kids to be kids and never grow up. We never become peers but always remain offspring limited in our view of their marriage by the relationship we have to them and the fact that we weren’t around when their connection began. And they settled into their roles as spouses. We can analyze it all we want. But when it comes to understanding the influence, their relationship had on how we retreated. The chances are good that we will never get past the guessing stage. True, but you can do an educated guess, and you’re probably going to be right. It’s a very real blind spot. Working with a therapist can of course, clear away some of the brush, which will help. That was true of a daughter named Julia, who I interviewed extensively, she was marginalized and ignored by her mother and picked on by her father in childhood. And later, she went on into therapy, the specifics of her story helped her understand the role she played in her parents’ relationship. So, this is true. So, if you’ve got a family of origin with an abuser, and a passive, seemingly passive spouse, the kids are given roles. The kids are given roles distraction, comedian, second mom, second dad, you know, second spouse, you know, they’re given roles to play, and it has nothing to do with the kid. Nothing.But that kid. Not all out. So yeah, absolutely. therapists can help with that. 110%. Um, okay, let me see.

Okay, my birth was the cause of all hardship and strife. I was never allowed to forget it. They chose to have two more children later. And it was always clear that they that unlike me, my sisters brought them happiness and pride. That was the family story. And they have never deviated from it. Not in 50 years, I am still the source of their disappointments, large and small. And that is part of their bond in a weird way. Their marriage has thrived because they had someone to blame for their occasional unhappiness from the very start, my mother still dismisses me, and my father finds me lacking; it will never change. And I know that. So again, the role of the scapegoat, the role of the whipping kid, you know, it’s like, okay, so that’s, that’s who they put all of their stuff on to. Um, okay, let’s see. Anyway, the article goes on. It’s just really good about it really puts into perspective why some spouses stand by and allow the hurt to happen, why some actively engaged in it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, basically, their behavior towards us had absofreakinglutely, nothing to do with us. Nothing, zip, zero, zilch. Nada. It had to do with their inner child, their family of origin, what they were protecting, etcetera, etcetera. Now, does that excuse it? No, not even a little it explains it. And hopefully, that will start unraveling that self-esteem issue of I’m not worthy. When you realize that it had nothing to do with you. Their idiocy, they’re not interfering. They’re not protecting you had nothing to do with you. It had everything to do with them, their inner child, what they were afraid of their fears, their codependency, their need for security, etc., etc., etc. Which is why it’s so important to get this stuff nailed down if you’re considering having kids, because you do not want to pass on this generational trauma to the next generation.

So all right, let’s recap. So, to recap, people stand by and do nothing because they talk themselves out of it. They are convinced that they can’t do anything or that somebody else is going to do it. So you can’t assume somebody else is going to respond to an emergency or respond to abuse or whatever, you report it, you report it, which is why the things that have been happening lately are so chilling to me, because it’s like, okay, well, if you’re handcuffing people reporting abuse, who’s watching out for the abused, you know if you’re taking away the ability to punish a frickin dark triad who’s saying die now, eff off, who’s protecting that person? Again, stand by mentality, you got to stop it, you got to get involved, you got to get involved. And again, when I was growing up, I told people, I told people, I was being harmed. Nobody did anything because they didn’t want to fill out the paperwork. They didn’t want to take the time. They didn’t want to get involved. And they were afraid of being sued because my dad was an attorney.

So, you got to tell that fear to eff off it. Could you be sued? Well, hell yeah. In this country, you could be sued for anything, anytime, anywhere, for any reason? Yeah, absolutely. Is that a problem? Yeah, sort of. But you know, what, if it means saving someone or protecting somebody, then I’ll do it. You know, it’s like, bring it bitch. I don’t care. You know what I’m saying? So, it just, it annoys me greatly the bystander mentality, especially in toxic families. So, when you get that parent that’s like, oh, but that’s just the way they are. We don’t want them upset at me. You know, a wrong, an incorrect response, please go off the island. You know what I’m saying? I’m saying it’s just, uh, anyway. So basically, the way the parents behaved had everything to do with them, everything to do with their family of origin, nothing to do with the kids, nothing to do with you. It was not your job to protect them. That’s often the way it ends up happening is that the kids protect the other parent from the abuser. It’s not your job to make their marriage good or happy or whatever or be a scapegoat for them. It’s not your job to be a second mom or second dad. You did not ask to have 20 million children. And it’s not fair that an abusive parent makes a five-year-old babysit younger kids. Oh, yeah, that happens. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s this has all abuse has to do with the abuser. It does, and the standing by has to do with the family of origin issues of that parent, probably code a parent to parent, codependent parent, do you see where I’m going with that? So, they’ve got their own issues. They’re acting out of inner child stuff. Get to a therapist, if you are in an abusive relationship and you find yourself siding with the abuser, or you find yourself not protecting your kids, get out, get to a therapist, help yourself, help your kids, because here’s something to think about. You are role modeling for them. What a relationship looks like, do you really want them to get involved with somebody that’s just like your abuser? Hell, no, you don’t. So do something to help yourself. Do something to help those kids.

Kris Godinez  38:33

Okay, let’s hit the questions. Here we go. Do narcissists enjoy seeing their children, especially their daughters, getting hurt? I saw a narc protecting her sons more and being dismissive to the daughters. Like they don’t matter at all. Yeah, in some cases. Yeah. But here’s the thing. I think with narcissists, psychopaths’ dark triads, it depends on their family of origin again, so if they have, you know, daddy issues, or whatever, they may be more abusive to the sons and protect the daughters or vice versa or whatever. Do they enjoy seeing their children get hurt? Yeah, they do. They’re sadists. I cannot stress this enough, guys. When I say that narcissists, dark triads, especially, are sadistic and sadists. I am not just whistling a tune here. They enjoy inflicting pain because it makes them feel powerful. It is a power and control issue. That’s what it’s all about. And when I say they want you dead, I’m not just whistling a tune. I’m not. They want us dead. And this whole thing about, oh, it’s subjective. No, it’s not. If somebody says die now and eff off permanently, that says to me, that’s a death threat. Okay, so here’s what I think needs to happen. We need to get a psychiatrist to challenge that because, I Honestly, there is no subjective about this Perception is everything. If somebody sends me a threatening message, I’m going to take it as threatening. Thank you very much. And I should. So anyway, don’t get me started. But yes, they are absolutely sadists. They absolutely do enjoy it. Yes, they will play favorites. Yes, they will protect the daughters and not the sons or protect the sons and not the daughters, depending on what their own personal peccadilloes are.

Um, would you consider a parent who refuses to act a kind of dissociation? It can be? Yeah, absolutely. It 100% can be because if the abuser is abusing, and it sends them into dissociation, and they’re unable to act, that’s why I’m saying Fight Flight freeze are faun. But here’s the thing, after the fact, if the kid comes to you and says, mom or Dad just did this, okay, well, we need to do something. This needs to stop. So, I mean, somebody’s got to protect the kid. And I understand yes, dissociation can happen. 110%. But after the dissociative episode, and the kid says they’re being abused, that child needs to be protected. Period.

My stalker won’t stop, even with a restraining order. Should I move? Okay, so, stalkers are crazy, okay, with a restraining order, they generally don’t stop if they are dark triads and crazy enough, what should be happening is if the order of protection is being violated, you should be calling the police every single time and demand that they do something, because there’s an order in place this guy needs to, or this girl needs to be in jail, period. So, you could continue to call the police. If you’ve been calling the police and they are doing nothing, I would get vocal. I would go to the media, I really would. Because that’s the kind of biatch I am. So, you know, it’s like, let’s put a spotlight on this, let’s show how corrupt this particular police system is, you know, let’s, let’s do this. So, um, I would start, and I would reach out to a domestic violence shelter, domestic violence shelters have ways of literally you can change your name, you can get things so that they can’t look up your address, you can do things to disappear, basically, if you are being threatened like that. So, I would contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline. I think it’s the National Domestic Violence Hotline. So, they have information on how to get safe, what to do, etcetera, for sure. Okay, um, okay. Answered that question answered that question. Should you move? You know, it depends. If, if your police department is not doing anything, and you’ve made them aware that they’re not doing anything, then I would look into, Yeah, moving. Absolutely. But here’s the thing. If the stalker is really crazy, that’s a good possibility they could follow, which is why if you’re going to move, you want to disappear from the public records, you want to make sure that they can’t just do a public search and find Thank you, John, find your new address your new phone number, I mean, etc. Is it a pain in the hind end to do that? You bet. But if it gets rid of a stalker, it’s worth it.

So again, I would contact your domestic violence shelter. You might also look into a lawyer. Because here’s the thing, if you’ve got an order in place, and the police are doing literally nothing, you may have a lawsuit. So, look at that. So anyway, because I swear to God, it’s like, public agencies do not listen. But if you hit them where it hurts, which is in the pocketbook, they suddenly start paying attention and start doing things. Funny how that works. All right.

Um, okay. I am in long-term recovery from a very toxic family five years, no contact. How do I keep strong? Oh, Kay. So, leaving a toxic family is difficult it is because that’s been our family, right? And that’s what we thought was normal until we came out of it. And we’re like, whoa, this isn’t normal. So, you want to have support, you want to be in a support group support groups are great. Now keep in mind, though, that there are a lot of predators in support groups, so you’re going to have to be careful, but support groups are really good. It’s good to get support. It’s good to go talk to other people that have gone no contact that are, you know, working on themselves. Get with a good trauma therapist. This is how you keep strong as you keep working on you. You will keep working on you. You cannot fix them because you did not break them. You work on you. They may have broken you are bent. You can work on you. So that’s what you want to do so you want to get with a good trauma therapist. Get into a support group out of the fog.net. I think has support groups you can look up narcissist survivors there’s tons of support groups out there get with a good trauma therapist work the books I recommend C PTSD from Surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, the disease to Please Harriet breaker. The Self-Esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi The Inner Child Workbook either by Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor. All of those are great books get plans in place. I think the betrayal is something that kind of literally knocks us off our feet when we realized that our family of origin was no bueno, didn’t support us, wasn’t kind wasn’t good to us, you know, really betrayed us. The betrayal is really hard to deal with but necessary write and burn letters Dear mom Dear Dad, dear abuser, dear brother, dear sister, whoever was abusive, you go through the whole thing the good, the bad, the ugly, the horrific, the unforgivable, and at the very end, kick them out of your head. Y’all don’t have any space up here anymore. I’m evicting you by the by now go pound sand by you’re not up here not allowing it by trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, let it go. Okay.

The other thing you want to do is get plans in place so when we go no contact with a family. We are going to look at things differently holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, important events, family emergencies. What are we going to do? Deaths in the family, how are we going to go to the funeral or not? You know, do we need to be involved with it. So, it’s really sitting down and deciding what your boundaries are. With the family, you’ve gone no contact with so so and to be aware toxic families will do a Hoover toxic families will do the whole Oh, medical emergency so and so is dying; you need to get back in touch with the family you need to get back in touch with your sister or brother you need to get back. Be careful because they do medical Hoover’s, they do a family emergency Hoover’s. They do Hoover’s to try to drag you back into the family to be in contact with them. So, you want to sit down and decide, okay, am I going to contact them? If they say there’s an emergency? Or am I going to kind of feel it out and see what’s going on? I would suggest feeling it out and seeing what’s going on and making sure it’s a real emergency and not just, you know, come back into the fold emergency if that makes any sort of sense. So, its deaths in the family. That’s another thing. So, it’s like okay, so do you really want to go to the funeral? You don’t have to if you don’t want to now, society will say Oh, but you have to go; why? They were abusive? Why would I go? The only reason I would go is so I could probably put a pile of flaming dog doo-doo on their grave. No, thank you. I don’t want to go, no, thank you. You know, so really, it’s sitting down and deciding what you want and what your boundaries are.

Kris Godinez  48:14

If you’ve gone no contact, stay no contact. You know, if there’s a family emergency, suss it out see what’s really going on. See if this is a Hoover it very well could be if there’s a death in the family that’s up to you whether or not you want to go or what you could do is wait until after the funeral and then go visit then go visit the grave. That is something you could do. Thank you, Siri. I’m so that’s something to think about. So, these are all you know, when we go no contact, we don’t really think about all of the things that are included with that. So, with holidays, right? So, in the past, you might have gone and hung out with a dysfunctional family. Well, now you don’t have to and rather than looking at it as a oh my gosh, I don’t have any family to hang out with it should be uh, oh my gosh, I don’t have any family to hang out with. Huzzah! I get to do what I want. So, plan something for you. Go do something that you’ve always wanted to do. What have you always wanted to do on Thanksgiving? What have you always wanted to do on Christmas? What have you always wanted to do for New Years? What have you always wanted to do on your birthday and not have it ruined by a bunch of narcissists? What do you want? Start thinking about that. And or this is why  I like support groups. There are things to do with other people. You can have friends giving friends Thanksgiving or a friend’s Christmas or, you know, whatever. There are other ways to have community without being in a toxic family, and don’t let that trip down memory lane drag you back into the family.

So, the biggest thing that happens to people is they leave an abusive family. The holidays hit and they get nostalgic and they’re like oh, but well that’s your inner child get with your therapy. Just work on the inner child, do something else, do something fun, do something you enjoy that you’ve always wanted to do that you couldn’t do because of the family. So that is my suggestion for that. Make sure you have friends, make sure you have support, make sure you have people to talk to. This is really important. You’re not alone. Dear God, you’re not alone, there are so many of us that have gone through having to go no contact. Now with me, I had my older sister, so I wasn’t completely no contact. But for a good portion of my family. Yep, I didn’t speak to them. So anyway, there is that. And that is how you keep strong, you work on yourself, and you come up with contingency plans so that you’re not alone or feeling alone. And you don’t avoid your emotions. That is really important is that that’s the other thing is that when we get out of an abusive relationship, or family relationship, one of the things I hear a lot is, I don’t, I don’t want to feel, I don’t want to think about it, I don’t want it. Well, guess what? You got to deal with it. You do. Because if you don’t, if you just shove it underneath the carpet, if you just, you know, oh, it’s dirty, I’m just going to put it under the carpet, you’re going to get a lumpy carpet, that’s going to be really hard to vacuum. And it’s twice as hard to get clean. Do you see where I’m going with that? So don’t be afraid of your emotions.

Don’t be afraid of your anger. You’re going to be pissed you are, you’re going to be sad because you were betrayed, you’re going to be, you know, all sorts of stuff happy because they’re gone. And you don’t have to deal with them. Wow, you know, relieved all sorts of stuff. So, the emotions are okay, allow, allow, allow process, get with a good trauma group, trauma support group, get with a good trauma therapist, you know, and try different modalities. So, like I said, you know, CBT is great talk therapy in conjunction with EMDR. I think those are that’s a really good combination because you’re hitting it from two different levels. So, there’s tap therapy; there’s EFT, there’s, I mean, there’s all sorts of modalities that work really well with trauma. So, find a good one.

Now, when you’re looking for a trauma therapist, make sure that they’re not just trauma-informed, they need to know they’re a hole from a hole in the ground. Nothing pisses me off more than when I hear somebody went to somebody who was trauma-informed, informed, and they didn’t know what they were doing. So yeah, make sure they know what they’re doing. So, ask other people who do they see. Do they like their therapist? Do they understand narcissistic trauma? Do they get toxic families? Do they get having to be an orphan at age 50? Do they get that? Do they understand what it is to finally figure out the betrayal and the abuse? that’s those are the questions you got to ask. Okay. Um, alright.

What can we do if people if the people being abused our nieces or nephews, I have tried many times to protect my niece. But her mother seems to put her right back in unsafe situations. You just have to keep calling. Unfortunately, CPS, you call authorities, you know since the mom is not doing the right thing, then you have to take it up to the next highest level. Seriously, that’s what you do. That’s what you do. And you work with those kids as much as you can if you have access to them. I don’t know how old they are, you know, but you let them know nobody has the right to hit them. Nobody has the right to scream at them. Nobody has the right to sexually molest them. Yeah, and you just take it up to the next you’re going to have to probably call authorities. You’re probably going to have to call CPS or DCS or whatever. They’ve named it. lipstick on a pig if you ask me, but, you know, there it is. Okay, let’s see.

Um, have I decided on the meet and greet date yet for Salt Lake City? No, I haven’t. But I am looking at probably August, just as close as I’ve gotten because I’m doing all of this stuff this right now. And soon as I get back from all my travels, I promise you, I will throw in Salt Lake City. So, it’ll be either August or September. So, I promise I promise. I promise. So, there is that. Okay. Do we have any other questions? Let me look. Oh, we’re done. Okay. All right. So. So Salt Lake City will be either August or September, I will get the data. Give me a couple of weeks. I got to kind of finesse things through and figure out what I’m doing. Okay, thoughts. What am I thinking? That one after that is in Florida, and that’s December 2. So that’ll be in Clearwater, Florida. The tickets are for sale on krisgodinez.com. That is, it.

Other than that, we need to write letters. We need to contact people. We need to stand up for the homeless. We need to stand up for ourselves. We need to stand up for those who are being abused, and I think the thing that annoys me It is when I hear somebody go, Oh, well, that doesn’t affect me. You are selfish. Don’t get me started. It affects all of us because once an abuser feels confident in their abusing, they continue to abuse, and they abuse other people, and they push the envelope because they’re psychopaths. Which part of dark triad psychopaths Do you not effing understand? So, they don’t stop. They don’t stop there. They’re like the Terminator. So, you’ve got to stop them. They’ll stop if the benefits do not outweigh the cons. So, if they’re getting embarrassed publicly or if they’re going to jail or if they’re whatever, they’ll stop doing it because it’s no fun anymore. So, for them, it’s their idea of fun is really twisted anyway. So, there is that so write your your congressman write The Supreme idiot court. You know, tell them this is not okay. Tell them this is not this is not okay. This is not subjective die now is a threat. So all right. That is, it. All right, you guys have a great week. And what am I talking about?

Next week, we’re going to talk about anxiety. So, we will be talking about anxiety and how to cope and why we get nervous over seemingly odd things. So, we do it’s like social anxiety or going somewhere new or driving or, you know, what is that about? So, I’m going to call that a case of nerves. Because if I say anxiety, YouTube is going to be like, Oh, we can’t talk about so. Anyway. All right. So, a case of nerves so we’re going to talk about anxiety, we’re going to talk about what it is, why it happens, and what you can do to help yourself because you show me somebody who survived abuse. I will show you somebody who has anxiety. There it is. Alright, guys, have a great week, and Happy Fourth of July and I will talk to you next week. I will talk to you on Wednesday. Okay, bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.