We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

08-21-2022 Why Aren’t I Over Them?
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris talks about why a breakup with an abuser lingers, how we get through complicated grief and how to help yourself heal.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so before we dive into the topic, a little public service announcement I wanted to do something that’s been coming up for a lot of my clients and a lot of listeners. So social media, okay. People are comparing themselves to what they see on social media. And it’s damaging, because they’ll talk to me or they’ll, you know, they’re a client, they come in and we start discussing this and they start comparing themselves to what they’re seeing on social media.

So, for example, men will see stuff on social media, and they’ll start getting body shamed, because they’re seeing these guys that are, you know, cut and working out and you know, also have a full time job and this than the other women, same thing. women that are mothers are getting shamed, because some of these social media people have got, you know, tons of kids and the house is clean, and they look put together and this that the other thing, what you guys are not seeing is that those social media personalities are showing you what they want you to see you’re not seeing their everyday life, you’re not seeing the two o’clock in the afternoon meltdowns from the two year old, you’re not seeing the fact that this person who’s incredibly cut is being paid to work out six, eight hours a day, you know, every day, and you know, has got a sponsor or whatever. Do you see where I’m going with that?

So what is seen on social media you cannot, you cannot believe everything you see, the women that have got the 20 million kids the perfect house, the perfect hair, this that the other thing, what you don’t see is they probably have staff, they probably have somebody cleaning the house for them. They’ve got a beautician, they’ve gotten nannies they’ve got… when I lived in LA, and I was working in LA as a hairdresser. Every single one of my clients that was in the industry had a nanny, they had somebody that helped them with the children, they weren’t doing it all on their own. So if somebody’s got 100,000 million kids, and they’re saying, Oh, I’m doing it all on my own, they’re either lying, or they’ve got a nanny or do you see where I’m going with or they’ve got help somewhere. Okay, family members, friends, whatever.

So, the point is, is you cannot believe everything you see on social media. And so when our clients or anybody that’s like, oh my gosh, I’m feeling horrible about myself. Okay, you got to stop watching it, you got to stop watching the stuff that’s making you feel awful. Because nine times out of 10 is not even true. So you know, you’re not seeing what’s going on behind the scenes. You’re not seeing their everyday life. And the same thing goes with reality television, it drives me crazy. When I have people sit down and I’m like, Oh, I’m obsolete. I’m old. Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, where’d you get that ageist thing from? Well, you know, it’s, you know, everyone’s worried about turning 30 And I’m like, You’re just you’re still a puppy. You’re thirty, you got a long time ahead of you, God willing in the crick don’t rise, you know what I’m saying? So it’s this whole idea that you know, you’re not good enough do you hear where I’m going with that?

Kris Godinez  04:05

What does that sound like? Not even good. So if you’re watching Social Media, and if it is making you feel awful, It’s like that old song that was like a Graduation Commencement. You know, don’t read beauty magazines. They’ll only make you feel ugly. It’s the same thing. Briefly, I’m going to tell you a little story. I had a Playboy model come in when I was working as a hairdresser in LA. And she was so proud of her spread and I know I’ve told the story before but I’m going to tell it again. And so she came in and she had her spreadsheet was showing everybody and I swear to you, I looked at this spread. I looked at her. I looked at this spread. I looked at her and it didn’t even look like her. I would never know that was her. They had done all of the shaping and this this is before Photoshop. It was back in the early 90s. So you know, it didn’t even look like her and then she told me all of the and she was beautiful. Don’t get me wrong. She was Beautiful. But then she told me all of the plastic surgeries she had to stay relevant in this bizarre industry that is the entertainment industry. I mean, she’d had cheeks shaved and chin implanted and nose shaved and you know, boobs done and hips done and buttock implants and, and liposuction and I’m just like, Oh, my, how old are you? 21? What? Yeah, so no, no, no, no, no, with the side of no and an extra helping of NO. And the scariest part of it was that her breasts were rejecting the implants. This was right around the time that the whole problem with the silicone breast implants was happening. And she’s like, Yeah, they’re getting really hard. And I just don’t understand. And, you know, there’s that. And then she was talking about that. And I’m just like, Oh, my God, girl, get them out. Get them out, get them out. So yeah, it. Yeah, don’t read beauty magazines, they only make you ugly, feel ugly, because it’s a comparison to something that is not real.

Same thing with social media, if you’re seeing somebody who’s like, supposedly got their crap together, and yet they have all these kids or you know, their perfect body, you’re not seeing what they’re doing to get that. I was reading an article yesterday about body shaming and men. And how the MCU has been really hard on the average Joe, because all of these guys when they talk about their workout routines, especially Hugh Jackman, he goes above and beyond crazy dangerous, not healthy. To get that ripped cut bod, he literally would dehydrate for 36 hours before a shirtless scene, he would workout and then dehydrate and to do the shirtless scene so that the veins were popping and I’m just like, that is so that’s dangerous. So in these guys are doing literally eight hours a day working out different body groups, muscle groups every single day. That is their job, the average person who is working at a desk, you know, cubicle, you know, whatever we don’t, we’re not getting paid to work out eight hours a day. That’s not going to happen. I mean, we can hit the gym as much as we want. But literally, it takes eight hours a day hitting different body groups body muscle masses to get the superhero body, male, female doesn’t matter. So if you’re watching something, and it’s shaming you stop watching it. Just stop watching it. It’s not real, which then leads me into this next topic.

Ooh, so now we’re going to talk about why aren’t I over them yet? And believe me, this this kind of connects because the person we fell in love with wasn’t real. It’s kind of the same thing. It’s a little it’s yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about that.

Kris Godinez  07:53

So why is it so insanely hard to let go of our abuser? Okay, so there’s so much going on. I hope I can cover it in a half an hour. So think about what happens abusers look for people who are empathic they present to us the way that they think we want right? Oh, you like you know, it’s like Hans and Ana in Frozen. You like ice cream. I like ice cream. You like pizza, I like pizza you like you know, they mirror us and they make us believe that we have found our quote unquote soulmate. This is what they do. So it’s, it’s kind of a fantasy bond, we want to believe the best of them, because that’s how we are. That is how healthy normal people are, is we want to believe the best of people but what happens to us is, we fall in love with their potential because they show it to us, you know, they can fake it, they can do it for an incredibly short amount of time. So, they can fake the mirroring they can fake all of the good stuff that we value and like and you know that whole thing, but they can’t sustain it. But then that hooks us that hooks us with this illusion of this person that is kind and caring and funny and gentle and loves their kids and you know would be a good mom or a good dad or you know, whatever. So, it’s an illusion. It is the fantasy bond literally there is a book on it called love fantasy bond by I think it’s Robert Firestone great book, read it because we fall in love with the potential because we’ve seen them do and be the way that we wanted when they were in the love bombing phase. And that hooks us like ah like a fish so we get hooked.

Kris Godinez  09:59

So then when they flip and they start doing the devalue and the discard it is literally like cold water to the face, you know, ice water to the face, slap in the face, whatever it is like this, what the… you know? And it’s unbelievable because you’re like, wait, no, this is how you were, this is who you are. And it’s like, no, now they’re showing you who they really are. And it is… I can’t even describe it. It’s worse than a 7.2 earthquake. It is like every natural disaster happening all at once in your head, because they’ve been using your brain as a playground.

So they do the gaslighting they do the lying the cheating the stealing the flipping the script rewriting history. You know the come here, go away, come here, go away, come here, go away, you know that whole thing. And it messes with your mind. So, when they finally do the discard, the devalue and discard, and they start putting you down for all the things that they said they loved about you. What a head trip! And not in a good way. Some head trips are good, but this one is not. This is not a good head trip. This is a bad head trip. So, it’s the cognitive dissonance. It’s the…know you, you’re this way, but you’re doing this and you can’t accept it because you want to believe so badly that illusion that they sold you in the beginning.

So let’s talk about complicated grief. So, when these Jack wagons, kindest thing I can say for them, pull this kind of utter moo. They do devalue the discard, we get away from them, right. It is really insanely hard to heal. It is not impossible, but it is hard. And what makes it hard is that usually not always. But usually the abuser will do this continued hoovering. You know, Oh, baby, baby, I’ll change everything will be different. Blah, blah, blah. And so then we want to believe the potential. So, we run back and then the love bombing starts for a very short amount of time, every time you go back, the love bombing gets shorter and shorter and shorter. It takes on average, seven times leaving on average, that means 50% above 50% below to finally make the clean break and get away from these people.

So it’s so hard because we’ve got that empathy we fallen in love with the potential we could possibly be codependent. You know, wanting them to be okay. I can fix them love will heal them. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Love is not going to heal them. I wish wouldn’t that be? Wouldn’t this be a wonderful world if love was enough? It would be fantastic. I could retire and finally go live by the beach. That would be awesome. You know, but it’s not it’s love is not going to heal them. They do not feel the way you and I feel, they don’t have empathy. They don’t really truly care about anybody else. It is me me I,I,I more my genitals that seriously. That’s all they care about. So, when that happens, we’re dumbfounded. We’re shocked, like literally shocked. Like I said, every single natural disaster happening all at once. Because it’s like your mind blown. Like what the what just? Who what? They will say the most horrible things, they will do the most horrible things. And then they go away and then they started hoovering. And the wait could be anywhere from days, hours, days, weeks, months to years, decades, even I have seen them try to Hoover after 20 plus years was just like really, usually what happens is they run out of everybody else.

Kris Godinez  13:53

So they’re going back through the little black book boy, I’m dating myself on that one. But they’re going through their little black book trying to find a previous romantic partner that they can, you know, hook back into the system and get narcissistic supply from. So complicated grief plays into this because basically they have put a hand mixer in our brain and started stirring and doing the discard and the devalue and the gaslighting and the lying and the rewriting history, the love bombing and the hoovering and this, that and the other thing. So please don’t beat yourself up. This is this is hard to heal from is not impossible, but it is more challenging that if then if it were a healthy breakup, so there are such things as healthy breakups.

So, for example, you’re dating somebody and you realize, you know, I really love this person, but we’re just not there’s just not the right chemistry or it’s just not working or their values are different or they don’t want kids and I do or they do want kids and I don’t or you know and then you amicably I know it’s What a weird concept. amicably breakup. Those do occur amongst healthy people. Those do occur. Does it hurt? Yeah. Do you miss the person? Absolutely. Is there any of this longing and, you know, desperately wanting to connect back with them or falling susceptible to a Hoover? No, not really. Because in a healthy breakup, you guys talk it through, you realize you’re not meant to be and you let each other go, you are released to the wild to go find your happiness or whatever. And there’s no, there’s no recriminations. There’s no nastiness, there’s no it’s just hey, it didn’t work out. It didn’t work out, believe it or not, there are some divorces that go like that. Which are few and far between. But yeah, that does happen when somebody is healthy.

With an abuser, however, they are all ego, it can never be their fault. And if you throw kids into the mix, this makes it really hard to heal because they are constantly, you’re constantly seeing them. They’re constantly coming back into your life. They’re constantly, you know, there right. Okay, let’s say there’s no kids, okay? And again, the whole key is, is they’re always they’re always they’re always there, right? If there are no kids, do you want to know where they are? Right up here in your head. So, with an abuser, when they finally discard us, or we leave, or they leave, or whatever, because of the cognitive dissonance because of all the gaslighting because of all the lying, because of all the manipulation because of all the things that they do. We ruminate, oh, Lord, do we ruminate? You know, we’ll Okay, well, if I had done this, and if I had said that, or, you know, if I just twisted myself into this pretzel, then maybe they’d still be…. no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you cannot fix them. You cannot fix them because you did not break them. And because of the codependency we have a tendency to ruminate and roil that over and over and over in our head. Like, whoa, what about this? What about that? And what if I said this? Or what if I did this differently? Or what if I gave up my job or whatever? Mm hmm. Danger, danger, danger, danger, Will Robinson Danger, danger, you know, ah, don’t do that.

So, then you throw the complicated grief on top of that. So, oh, Lord, there’s so much going on in recovery here because there’s so much going on in the abuse. So, it’s really important to get with a good trauma therapist, I cannot stress that enough. Get with a good trauma therapist, trauma therapist, because they need to understand the whole PTSD, CPTSD thing you have been gaslit you have been lied to. And that’s why it’s making it hard because that little kid inside of you wants to believe them, and wants to believe that you are the answer that you can love them into health. And you can’t, you can’t I wish you could, but you can’t.

So let’s talk about complicated grief. complicated grief is finally took them long enough Welcome to the 21st century, being recognized by the DSM group, okay, so complicated grief is where it goes on for a longer amount of time than with a quote unquote, normal grief. So let’s define this shall we? Normal grief, the most intense, the most intense part of the grieving process is in that first year, because you have to get through all of the firsts. So, if you’ve got your abuser living up here, rent free in your head, it’s really hard, even after all of the firsts are gone, because that person is the first thing on your mind in the morning and the last thing on your mind at night.

Kris Godinez  18:52

So, in healthy grief, in the most intense part, it’s a year getting through all the firsts. So that first year you have to get through the new normal, right? You know, this person is gone, right? In the second year, it’s okay, now what? Okay, I’ve gotten through all the first I’m going to have to come up with a new way of doing all of the holidays or thinking about what happened or whatever. And hopefully in this second year, you’re working on the abuse, you’re working with a trauma therapist with the grief and the abuse so that you kick them out of your head so that they’re not the first thing on your mind first thing in the morning last thing at night. The third year then kind of becomes unhealthy grief becomes the new normal. This is this is the way it’s going to be this is the way I’m going to do things. They’re starting to become a distant memory right or not a distant memory but it’s not that intense grief.

Okay. Because of the abuse because of the codependency because of the way that they treated us. We have a tendency to Keep bringing them back up. So we keep bringing them back up, we keep bringing them back up, we keep bringing them back up. And that keeps stimulating all the things in our brain, right? That create the thought of continuing to think about them, it’s a way of keeping them close without actually having to be with them. I know, it’s weird, but that’s what we do. And we do that in normal grief, too. You know, when somebody dies, we start you know, oh, hey, this was their favorite food, or, Hey, this was something they did that they really liked. And it’s a way to keep them relevant or up here and current and close to us, right. So it’s kind of the same thing with complicated grief. But it’s an unhealthy it’s a maladaptive way of fixing the person. So you know, so for me with my dad, I realized, thank God through my good therapists, that I was angry at my dad and I continued to stay angry at my dad as a way to continue to try to fix it, because the little kid inside of me was like, dammit, I’m going to fix this. I’m going to make it right. I’m going to end and then and then and then Okay, thank you little when you can’t. So it’s really important to work on the inner child workbook, either by Katherine Taylor, or by Luccia Capachione. It’s really important to get CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, it’s really important to go through the grief and acknowledge it. But don’t make it pretty, is what I’m trying to say. Because a lot of people kind of minimize the abuse, a lot of people kind of, oh, it wasn’t that bad or key? Look at all the great things about them when they were love bombing. So you definitely want to write things out. This is where writing it out is going to help you. So when your brain starts taking that lovely little trip down memory lane and going but, they were wonderful. Okay, they were wonderful in the love bombing phase. How was it afterwards? How did they treat you how, when they revealed themselves for who they were, what happened, you know, write all of that out, it takes a long time to punt them out of our heads. Because of the nature of the come here, go away, come here, go away, come here, go away. The gaslighting the rewriting history, the literally taking an egg beater to your brain and up is down black is white, green is yellow. Everything else, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s the cognitive dissonance, it’s all of this stuff. Plus the fact our inner child is trying to fix it, especially if they reminded us of a family member. So you got to work with that inner child and be like, Nope, we’re not going to think about them. So it takes longer to get over them because there is more damage than if it were a healthy breakup, which does exist.

So, what to do if the first thing that happens is they pop into your head, you’re going to have to do thought stopping you seriously are. So, for example, after my dad, and after I realized what I was doing, you know, and I would start to get angry or I’d start thinking about it. I’d have to be like, Oh, hi, dude. Guess what? No, no, y’all are dead. Y’all are dead by go buh bye. Bye. Bye now. Bye bye.

Kris Godinez  23:21

So in that case, he was already dead. Now for somebody who is alive. When they pop up. You have to acknowledge it. Yeah, I hear you. And I see you and you are irrelevant. You have nothing to do with my life. And I don’t want you to have anything to do with my life. My life, even though the inner child might be going. But you have to go… honey, no, they are not healthy for us send them on their way. So you have to kind of remind yourself what did they do? What how did they treat you? You know, and this is why it’s so hard to let go because we’re empaths. And we’re, you know, we were also codependent and we want to heal them. We want to fix them. We want to fix whatever happened in the family of origin. We want to do all of that.

So it takes a long time to get over it. It three years is what I say. Because it’s like, with a healthy breakup, I would say probably a year because it’s kind of like it was healthy. You guys left on amicable terms. You came to grips with it, everything’s good. With an unhealthy breakup, they lie they tell you it was all you they lie to you about who you are. And that inner child is just taken hits like nobody’s business. And so the inner child was like But, but, but… you know, wanting to fix that wanting to express that wanting to heal it wanting to work it through, etc. That’s why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist. You don’t need to be fixing it with them. Fixing it with the abuser is never going to work. So that’s the reason why you’re not over them yet. So in the first year, it’s going to be okay, they’re not here. We’ve broken up. Oh my gosh, they’re hoovering me. Wow. Leave me alone so I can heal, you jerk. You know what I’m saying? And then the second year is like, Okay, now I’m going to create new traditions and I’m doing all of that third year is going to be making sure that when they pop up, you’re just sending them on their way they are irrelevant to your life, they are never going to change. And I suspect that that’s part of what makes it so difficult. Because we want them to change. We want them to be healthy, we want them to love and to feel and to be quote unquote, normal, you know, and to not be jerks, basically. So yeah, you’re going to have a harder time letting go.

So this is where detachment is hugely important. Radical Acceptence Tara Brach, Radical Forgiveness for yourself and that’s by Colin Tipping radical, radical, Radical Self Forgiveness by Tom Collins having radical forgiveness for the self, because we tend to blame ourselves. So yeah, healthy, healthy grief is a lifetime process. You know, I still miss my grandmother’s, not plural. One, I missed one of them. The other one can go pound sand. But you know, my grandmother, I miss her a lot. You know, she was awesome. And I think about it, I don’t tear up like I used to, because it’s been a long time. But you know, Grief is a lifelong process. And yeah, every once in a while, that person will pop in your head. But when they do, you have got to send them on their way. You don’t need to invite that thought in for coffee. You don’t need to play with it. You don’t need to do the what ifs are the if only’s. So that’s another reason why the grief is harder to let go getting over them. It’s harder to let go because we do the what if, if onlys? Well, if only they were saying if only the god help if only they were, you know, willing to work on themselves. If only they were you know, I did the same thing with my dad when he died. So, um, yeah, so Okay. All right. How are we doing on time we are doing good.

So let’s just recap here. It is harder, it is not impossible. When the abuser pops up into your head and you want to start ruminating about it. You acknowledge the thought, Thank you. I hear you. I see you. I am not playing. We are done here. You’re out of my life. Buh bye. Another thing that you can do is you can go they weren’t real because they weren’t because this whole you know, mirroring stuff that wasn’t real. They were in illusion. It was the fantasy bond. Oh, there’s my favorite fantasy. Wow, that’s awesome.

Kris Godinez  27:29

Thank you for playing favorite fantasy. You know what, you weren’t real. I am not wasting one more second on you. Goodbye, go pound sand write when you get work. Buh bye now, buh bye. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like the thoughts are going to happen, but you don’t have to invite them in. And another good thing to do is to work on self esteem. Remind yourself of your worth, remind yourself that you did not deserve any of the lies, any of the discard or the devalue or the nastiness, or the gaslighting or the rewriting history or the cheating or the stealing or any of that. So Self Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Fabulous book. The other thing is write them a goodbye letter, like a goodbye letter like goodbye. So the good, if there was any there may not have been but if there was okay the love bombing phase Wow. In the beginning, you made it sound like you liked everything I liked and that we were the perfect match. And this, that, and the other thing, the bad, your masks started to slip, and you started to get hyper critical of everything I said and did and the ugly the devalue and the discard. And then you started calling me names and then you started cheating. And then you started stealing and then you started rewriting history. And then you started a smear campaign and then you started you know, do you see where I’m going? It’s like you kind of got to go through all of that. And at the very, very end, you take your power back. Okay, you know what? I grieve the loss of this illusion. That’s what I miss. That’s what I wish was still here. I do not miss all of this. And in fact, all of this is who your abusers really are. So you know what? You can just go pound sand mother Clucker you know what I’m saying? Not my coop, not my poop. It’s up to you, buddy. This is all your stuff. Not mine. Goodbye, buh bye now I’m by taking my power back, get out of my head.

Kris Godinez  29:27

I’m raising the rent. You’re not allowed here. I’m filing a restraining order with the angels. You know what I’m saying? And you just put them out in that letter, trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once. Burn it, let it go. That’s going to help your brain kind of go. Oh, okay, this is done. We’re Yeah, we’re done. Yeah, period on that sentence, okay. Because you’re never going to get closure from them. And that’s part of the reason why it takes so long because there’s never that. You know, thank you for this relationship. It just didn’t work out, you know, I wish you well, there’s never any of that ever, ever, it’s not real if they do so because then they come back and start recriminations and everything else. So basically what it is you write the goodbye letter, you make sure that they’re evicted from your head. You trout it out to the barbecue, you burn it. And you do that as many times as you need to until it kind of clicks. I wasn’t in love with the real person, I was in love with the illusion. Wow. And the illusion was amazing. They did a great job of mirroring. Which is why I keep saying, Can you guys see how amazing you are? Seriously, they mirrored the best of you back to you. So you kind of fell in love with yourself in a way they were just pretending to have the same qualities that you did. So Wow, dude, you know, you showed me the best of me. And I fell in love with that. And that’s who I am. That’s not who you are. So the real you is the one that did all these horrible things. So go pound sand and have fun with that. Buh bye. So that’s what you’re going to do. And that’s why it makes it hard because you have to really allow yourself to see you fell in love with the mirroring of you back to you. It was an illusion. They were not that. You’re that! You’re awesome! They’re not. So okay. I think that should cover that.

So that is why it is so hard to get over them because we’re dealing with all of these multifaceted things going on in our brain, cognitive dissonance, the devalue, the discard, the shock of the mask slipping, you know, all of this stuff going on. So all right. I think that’s it. So I hope that answered your question. That is why it takes so long to get over them because there’s so many, there are so many things going on psychologically, you know, your your inner child got triggered. They lied. They cheated. They stole they gaslit, they rewrote history, they messed with your mind cognitive dissonance. You know, up is down. Black is white, green is yellow, you know, and that messes with you. And grief is hard. Anyway, you know, the first two years suck for any grief, any grief. But with complicated grief. It can be three to five years trying to work stuff through. So that’s why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist. Start doing the books that I recommend. Start really cutting yourself some slack. This is an abnormal situation Healthy People don’t act like this. Healthy People don’t seek to destroy others. So there it is. Alright, let’s get to the questions.

Oh, actually, one thing I did want to read Psychology Today, what everyone should know about prolonged grief. Okay, so it’s finally they’re being accepted by the DSM. So prolonged grief is where it’s super intense, overwhelming. And that’s how we feel. They finally gave a formal diagnosis on the DSM, which is good. So, getting a proper diagnosis helps psychotherapy, obviously somebody who specializes in PTSD and bereavement, trauma, trauma therapist, they say medication, I’m going to say no on that. So, I honestly feel… it bothers me because in our country, it seems like grief is treated as if it’s abnormal. Have you ever noticed that? So, when I was working at the grief clinic in Scottsdale, the new song center, we literally had a person whose son died son, child, you know, and her employer after a week was telling her to stop crying. I’m like, okay, narcissist, jerk.

Kris Godinez  33:35

You know, I mean, so our relationship to grieving and death in this country is really screwed up. So it’s really important to allow yourself to grieve because you are grieving the loss of the illusion of the person you thought they were, as opposed to who they really were. So, allow yourself to grieve that loss, they were mirroring you back to you and that person was great, but the real them was not. So, Robert Firestone the fantasy bond, great book highly recommend it! That’s going to help with the grieving process. Connection can, feeling it can leave you feeling detached from other people and especially if you’ve got Flying Monkeys doing their thing find your support group, find the people who are going to support you and understand grief if anyone in your circle does the whole Oh, it’s been a year get over it you kick their hinny to the curb. Absolutely and go no contact because they’ve just shown you who they are. So, in especially if after you’ve educated them about what grief really is grief is lifelong grief is life long, but the most intense is the first year so if they’re like you know Oh, you need to get over it. You need to go suck something like an egg. Okay, thank you. So, kick them out. Kick him out, kick them out. Kick them out. Kick him out. Boy, I wish I could swear I can’t but you know what I was saying! So anyway, Okay, um, all right. And then this one says, Remember, it’s what this is for normal, intense grief, you know that you want to have something to honor them with. In this case, you want to have something to remind yourself, that they lied to you that they were not real, that what you loved was an illusion that that that this thing that you fell in love with was mirroring you back to you, and who they really were, is all of the horrible things they did to you. So, you need to write that stuff out. You need to allow yourself to grieve, and it’s going to be a lot of crying, and it’s going to be a lot of anger, because you got hurt. Remember, anger is not a pure emotion. Love is love. Lust is lust, happy, happy, sad is sad. Anger is driven by the fear of being hurt all the vulnerable emotions, it’s the bodyguard of those. So, allow yourself to… Yeah, you’re going to get angry, but then connect with what’s underneath it. And what’s underneath it is usually the betrayal. So, there it is. And that’s why you’re not over them yet. That’s why they ruminate in your head. That’s why they run around in your head. That’s why you think about them all the time. Because it’s an abnormal situation. And because it’s hard for the internal child, the inner child to reconcile that you didn’t love them, you loved the illusion. So that’s what you’re going to work on. So there it is. Oh, that was a big topic.

All right, let’s dive into the questions. Let me make this bigger. Because there we go. Is it common for narcissists to hound down their targets when they go no contact? Oh, yes. Let me answer this part of it first, and then I’ll answer the second half of it. So, when you are dealing with an abuser who is a dark triad, which means narcissistic, psychopath, Machiavellian, control freak, they are the ones who stalk and they are dangerous. They are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, like cuckoo, cuckoo, like crazy, like totally professional term cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They… I mean, they are just, yeah, because they’re all ego, okay. And they’re also antisocial, meaning the laws don’t apply to them in their head, they truly feel like they can do whatever they want. And they’re smarter than the cops, and they’re smarter than you. And they’re smarter than everybody. And I’m going to get you, you hurt my ego, I’m going to get you. And so they stalk. They cyberstalk, they physically stalk, they, they’re the ones that gather the flying monkeys, do the smear campaign, try to harass and make your life miserable. If you have one of those, you are going to get a restraining order. Okay, first of all, you’re going to document everything, document everything, all the cyber stalking all the physical stalking, get witnesses, you’re going to go to your local court, you’re going to file a restraining order, okay, or an order of protection. It’s called different things in different states. So here in Arizona, if it’s not a marriage thing, it’s an order of protection.

Kris Godinez  37:57

If it’s just a stranger, you know, you’re not related to them, no marriage, blah, blah, blah, you have all your evidence with you, you’re going to fill out the form, you’re to hand back into the clerk, they’re going to take you up to the courtroom, you’re going to get it that day. So it is, in some cases, harder to get a restraining order. But if you have a whole bunch of evidence, like their cyber stalking, here’s, here’s this note, here’s that note, here’s what they’ve said in this email, blah, blah, blah, most judges are going to be like, granted, we’re done. Then what you’re going to do is you’re going to take it to a process server, and you’re going to pay them I think it was like 80 or $100 to have it done. You’re going to pay them and you’re going to give them all of the information they need to find them and serve them. So once they’ve been served, you’ll get a notice back that they’ve been served. What a lot of these creeps do is they think they’re smarter than the judges. They think they’re smarter than the attorneys. They think they’re smarter than you. They’ll try to fight the order protection. Now. Here’s something that drives me crazy when people don’t listen to me. Do not contact them. Do not respond to them. Okay, once you do, you’ve broken the order of protection. And you’ve shown that you’re not that afraid of them and the judge will have a really hard time reinstating in order protection and then they’ve got the evidence they need that you’re not serious. Do you understand where I’m going with that? Now remember, I’m not an attorney. But this is basically what I’ve seen over and over again, where the target of abuse gets hoovered falls for it contacts them. Nobody’s going to believe you if you keep saying that they’re harassing you, if you continue to contact them, you’ve got to go no contact, it’s got to be no contact. You get the order of protection, and then you report them to the police. Now, this is where it gets sticky. Some police officers clearly don’t know the frickin law, because I’ve had some of them be like, Oh, well you know, I’m not going to or not file a report… you go over their head, you leave footprints on their scalp, you asked for somebody higher up and you get it filed. If they have broken the order of protection, if they have contacted you in any way, shape or form if they have come closer than 500 feet to you, if that’s what it is in the, in the order of protection, you call the police every single freaking time and do not take no for an answer from some of these Jack wagons that are on the police force. Because remember, narcissists are attracted to positions of power, and some of them are police officers, you know what I’m saying? So, okay, you’re going to call every single freaking time. Okay. I’m sorry, I totally forgot what I was doing.

Do they hound down their targets after no contact? Yes. Because their egos cannot stand it that you’ve gotten away that you’re not playing. Because remember, when a narcissist has a favorite target, that’s their favorite target. And then if the favorite target goes away, well, now they’ve got to find another supply. If you’re not responding, you’re not playing the game. They’re not getting the narcissistic supply. So yes, they will hound and hound, and hound, and hound and hound, hoping that you’re going to respond back to them do not! Get evidence of all the hounding. Get evidence of all the phone calls, get evidence of all the text messages or emails take them to the court, get an order of protection. And then follow up with calling the police every single time and demand that they write it down. There you go.

So there’s that. Okay, let me get the second half of this. I went no contact with a narcissistic family and didn’t feel any guilt at all. But they wouldn’t even let me get over them. Yes, that is exactly it. Because here’s the thing, what narcissists will say, and I have heard them say this, love me or hate me, just don’t ignore me. My dad used to say that all the damn time. So yeah, love me or hate me, just don’t ignore me. And so when somebody goes no contact, it drives them crazy. So, you just keep no contact, block, ignore block, ignore, block, ignore. Get all the evidence together, restraining order boom done. Will they continue to do that after the restraining order? Yeah, I had one that was completely insane. That continued to try to contact through family members and this that and the other thing. And I finally had to be like, you realize that every single person you’re getting to act on your behalf is going to go to jail. Right? It stopped. So, but do you see where I’m going with that? So it’s, yeah, they’re cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. So yeah, they need the narcissistic supply like the rest of us need oxygen.

My difficult husband is really trying not to rage be generous and nice. But I’m feeling an angsty energy from him today. How do I know if it’s him or me?

Kris Godinez  42:50

People are moody including me. Okay, so here’s the thing. Raging is not normal. Raging is not normal, normal, healthy people Do not rage. Do they get angry? Yeah, for sure. You know, but when you’re angry, you name what you’re angry about. It’s not the you, you guns, and it’s not this crazy. Over the top raging, throwing things, etc, etc, etc. So angsty energy. Okay, well, I don’t know, because I’m not you and I’m not your husband. Could it be coming from him? Maybe could it be coming from you? Probably. Why? Because if things are calm, with somebody who rages, we sit there and we wait for the other shoe to drop. We do because that’s what we’re used to. And so we’re waiting for the catastrophe. So um, I strongly suggest that you start working on self-esteem and boundaries, boundaries with the disease to please by Harriet Braiker. The self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Take very good care of yourself write things out. You know, if this person has just got fleas, okay. Like they had family that, you know, did this kind of thing. And they’re working on it. And they’re not raging. Okay, that’s great. And they’re continuing to grow. That’s great. But actions speak louder than words. So if they go for a period of time, and they’re good, and all of a sudden, they explode, and then they go for a period of time and they’re good, and they all of a sudden explode. They’re showing you who they are, believe them the first time. So is it normal to be angsty or anxious when somebody is changing behavior? Yeah, it is. But again, look to the actions look to the consistency how constant are they in their behavior? So there it is, okay. Um, okay.

When terrible things abusers used to say to us keep reoccurring in our minds. Could that be part of the grieving or sign of missing them? Well, it could be but it’s also I think, the inner child. So when a kid gets accused of something that they did not do. They are like, it’s not fair. But this is not true. So it’s probably the inner child. So I would look to, did this happen in your family of origin? Does this spark something for when you were a little kid? Were you unjustly accused of things? Or were you told things about yourself that were not true? And who does this really belong to?

Kris Godinez  45:34

So again, at that point, the horrible things that they said, and they do, they say, some of the most vile, nasty, you kiss your mother with that mouth, you know what I’m saying? I mean, they just they say some of the horrible, most horrible things ever, and they’re intended to hurt. So when those pop back up in your mind, you’re going to challenge them, you’re going to write a go screw you letter, go pound sand letter, a go pound sand letter to the abuser. And you’re going to write it out. Hey, you said this to me. Guess who you we’re really talking about yourself, Mother Clucker. You see where I’m going with that? Because that’s usually what it is. Oh, my God. They are. narcissists are insane number one. But number two, every nasty, vile thing they say about you is really about them. Seriously, I’m not kidding you. They all accuse their target of abuse, of cheating. But the target of abuse isn’t cheating. They’re the cheater. They’ll accuse the target of abuse of being ugly and horrible and, and vicious. And this that and the other thing well, but it’s not the target of abuse, It’s the abuser. So remember, they project. So every rotten thing that they’ve ever said is really about them, put it back to them. Chapter three CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, put it back to them. It’s not yours, that nasty thing that they said to you, that was about them. They’re talking about themselves. Normal people do not seek to harm hurt or destroy. Let me be clear about that. Normal people do not seek to harm hurt or destroy it is not their desire or want or need or intention. With abusers they have to, because it’s the ego, it’s the ego. They’re 100% ego and all they want to do is hurt. Because they are just horrible human beings. And they want everyone else to feel as crappy as they do. So when those thoughts pop up, write them out, hand them back, guess what mother clucker this was your thought, Oh, I’m a horrible person. Well, let’s talk about what you’ve done. Shall we? Do not send it! Trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, let it go. Yep, best thing you can do for these Jack wagons. Never think of them again. live your best life. Go have fun. Love yourself. So the polar opposite of whatever they said. You reaffirm to yourself who you really are. Mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what? You are enough! You know what? You are beautiful! You know what? You are kind! You know what? You… so everything they said, you reinforce what is really true. Because every nasty and negative. They’re talking about themselves. Put a write back to them because it’s not yours. You put that luggage back on the carousel, it’s not yours. Put it back. So hand it back off to them. Okay, let’s see. Um, okay. And I do think that’s part of the inner child. I think it’s that but it’s not true. So hand it back to them. It’s not in there. And here’s the thing, guys, I sometimes have people wanting to contact them to tell them all this stuff. Don’t! You would have a deeper conversation with my screen thing back here than you would with a narcissist. They are never, you are not going to get closure from them. It doesn’t exist not with them. You’re not going to get what you’re looking for. You’re not, so the closure you have to get is within you seriously. So that’s why I’m saying write and burn. Do not send this to them. All you’re doing is handing them more ammunition. My dad and his first wife sent nasty letters back and forth to each other for 45 years. The day the week he died, he got one from them. And they were constantly recriminations and throwing things back and you did this and you did that and done it at it. Do you think that ever solved anything? No. No, all it did was give them ammunition to keep it going because it was all ego. All ego. So what you’re going to do is you’re going to write it out, hand it back to them. Hey, that’s not who I am. I know who I am and who I am is good enough. Beautiful. I don’t need to be perfect. I just need to be good enough. I’m aiming for the middle road and I’m going to live my best life. Go pound sand, bye, bye now, buh bye. Do you see where I’m going with that? And then do the mirror work to reinforce who you really are. Because who you really are is not what they told you. So there is that! Okay.

My ex-girlfriend told me that she would be the only one who would ever be together with me and that nobody else would be with me. Oh my gosh. Is that normal for abuse? By the way I left. Oh Lordy. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. So what, this is another thing they say is we’re breaking up with them, especially if we leave them that no one will ever love you. No one would ever put up with you. You’ll never find anybody else like me will good! I hope so. Because you’re a jerk. You know what I’m saying? They do that they absolutely 110% No one will ever love you, you’ll never be with anyone else.

Kris Godinez  50:24

You know, I’m the penultimate, you know, you’re never going to find anybody. They’re talking about themselves again. Here’s the deal, guys. Unless the abuser can find somebody who is so low in their self-esteem that they’re never going to leave. Okay? They eventually get alone, the abusers, old age homes are filled with them. I’ve told these stories on 1000 times, they’re filled with collapse narcissist. And that’s going to be a topic in September that I’m going to talk about as a collapsed narcissists. So they’re the ones that are going to be alone. They’re the ones who are not going to find anybody. They are the ones that are going to be miserable, and nobody’s going to love them. Because by the time they hit middle age or older, everybody is done with their crap. Like seriously, children, family, friends, they’re done. They’re done. It’s like, I’m sick of the drama. I’m sick of the chaos. I’m sick of the lies, wer’e done. And they ended up alone. They do. And so they’re talking. They’re predicting their own fate is what they’re doing. And again, they’re projecting because that’s their worst fear. They can’t deal with it. They can’t cope with it. So they’re going to project it onto you. And in their little head. They’re like, Ah, you’re going to be alone. Well, no, the abuser is going to be allowed. Nobody’s going to put up with them. When they reach a certain point in their life when their looks are gone. And the money is gone. And they can’t control and manipulate anymore. Nope, sorry. Nobody’s going to put up with you. You are irrelevant. fun with that. And the ego can’t handle that. So that’s why they say things like that. So don’t worry, you’re fine. Go live your best life, work on self-esteem. Work on self-esteem. And by the way, kudos for getting out of that relationship, because it is hard. Not impossible. But it is hard and do not believe any of the nasty things that they said because they’re just trying, they’re throwing spaghetti at the wall to try to see what’s going to stick basically. So there that is okay. Let’s see, how are we doing on time? Oh, we’re doing good. Um, okay. Yes, that is very common with abusers. And yeah, they, especially the grandiose ones, because they can’t, especially if you left because it’s like they can’t conceive of somebody figuring them out because they think they’re smarter than everybody else. And they also cannot conceive of somebody leaving them because they think they’re smarter than everyone else and that they can manipulate and this and the other thing, so they throw everything they can so yeah, absolutely.


The self-esteem workbook. I’m stuck a chapter states that all humans are good at the core. I do not agree. I have a very pessimistic view of humans as a whole. How can I complete this book? Okay. Look at babies. Look at babies, puppies, babies, kittens. We do not pop out of the womb, dictators are nasty, or vicious or horrible or awful or terrible, or angst-filled or anxious or depressed or anything else. Unfortunately, adults are the ones that do that to us. So, realize I’m coming from a Buddhist perspective, you know, practicing Buddhist practicing Christian and Buddhist philosophy is my thing. So our core is goodness, right? At the core of psychopaths and narcissists, probably not, but also realize, psychopaths and narcissists generally don’t seek to improve themselves. Psychopaths and narcissists only go to therapy, if they’re looking to manipulate, control or doing it for a court reason or whatever. If you are doing the self-esteem workbook to improve yourself and to make yourself a better human being, congratulations, you have worth at your core. So gentle with you. Pessimism is a defense mechanism that helps when we are in a horrible situation.


Kris Godinez  54:26

So if we expect the worst and it happens then we’re not disappointed, basically, but it doesn’t work when we are away from that family of origin or out of that abuse and we’re trying to heal. So you don’t want toxic positivity, either. Balance, everything is balanced, everything is balanced, everything is balanced. So come back to the idea that you have worth. If you are bettering yourself, you have worth narcissists and psychopaths, like I said they They’re not really interested in healing, they’re not really interested in changing, they’re not really interested in growing, they have no desire to better themselves, they have no desire to relinquish control, and they’ll never change. And that’s why because they’re unwilling to get vulnerable. They’re unwilling to let go of the ego. They’re unwilling to have empathy or sympathy or anything else connecting truly to another human being. So yeah, people generally have to be taught to be complete, Jack wagons, now then again, we come back to the nature nurture, nature, nurture, nature, nurture. I firmly believe, though, that with the dark triads and the full-blown Narcissus, they’re missing a cog, there’s something wrong, there’s something not there. You know, they don’t love the way we love. They don’t feel the way we feel they don’t express or feel emotions the same way. So, yeah, get rid of the pessimism. It’s served you in the past. So, thank it, you know, here’s the thing, all of our maladaptive behaviors at some point in time helped us they did some point in time, they helped us. But now that we’re getting healthy, they’re not working anymore. So thank the pessimism, don’t hate it. Just thank you pessimism, I see how you help me in the past. And now I’m having to let you go because this is no longer working for me. So I get to see my worth, I get to have a glimmer of hope. I get to like myself, and hopefully eventually love myself. I get to, so work on that.

All right, my love’s we are just about out of time. I think that was the last question. Yes, it was. So remember, if you are watching Social Media, and it is making you feel like doodoo, stop watching it and realize they’re showing you exactly what they want you to see. So don’t compare yourself. Remember, comparison is something that narcissists teach us is that we’re always in competition. And we’re always comparing so don’t compare yourself. So in healing from an abusive relationship, yeah, you’re not over them because of all of the things that they have done. Because of all of the manipulation, all of the eggbeater in your head going with the cognitive dissonance and the devaluing the discard and the love bombing and the you know, and falling in love with the potential so do read the Fantasy Bond by Robert Firestone, and Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiradi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker. Okay, my love’s Have a great week and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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