We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

09-11-2022 Adult Kid Drama and Collapse
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris talks about what to do if the adult child is the one causing drama in the family, what narcissistic collapse looks like, and why not to fall for it!

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:02

Okay. Hi, guys. All right. So, lots to talk about today. Oh, my goodness. So um, all right. So in in current events, I want to cover a couple of things. So, the teacher that was kidnapped in I think it was Tennessee. Unfortunately, her body has been found. We are still missing Irene Gakwa. So she is missing in Cheyenne, Wyoming, no, Cheyenne, sorry, Gillette, Gillette, Wyoming. They have a person of interest that they’re looking at, but they need more information. So, if anybody knows anything about Irene Gakwa’s disappearance, please contact that Cheyenne No, not Cheyenne, Gillette, Wyoming police department that would be great.

Today is the 21st anniversary of 911. We talked a little bit about what to do when things are overwhelming with the news. And sometimes you just kind of got to let the emotions go with it. You know what I’m saying? So today, I was looking at some pictures that the journalists had taken and that were not released before and I was in tears the whole time. So, it’s important to acknowledge and to validate what you’re feeling and allow, just allow it. It’s like that is incredibly sad. What happened was incredibly sad and hearing the stories of the widows and widowers and things like that. And you just allow the emotions and can you do anything? No. It was 21 years ago? And education I think is the key and psychopaths. Dark triads are the ones that kill and have no remorse. So thinking of that today, there was a lot so there is that but the other thing that also has been in the news recently, again, abusers again, abuser, so the disappearance of Irene Gawka, the 911 attacks, they were abusers, they were absolutely arrogant, thought they could, you know, harm people and be okay with that. And that’s not okay.

And then, Brendan Fraser finally made a comeback, which is fantastic. And he was talking about his sexual abuse and his physical abuse, because he was talking about how his body was just broken down from all of these action roles. And nobody in the industry cared. Nobody. Nobody was like, Hey, let’s get a stunt person in to do this. Hey, let’s you know, no. So, you know, he should have spoken up. I don’t know if he did, and maybe they ignored him. I don’t know. But I’m thrilled that he’s back. And I’m thrilled that he’s talking about the abuse that he went through the sexual abuse that he went through and the physical abuse from the industry and things like that. So that makes me very happy that he’s doing that.

And then House of Hammer I don’t know if you guys have been watching that or not, it’s on Discovery plus it is a documentary. It is about the family of the Armand hammers and all the way down to Armie Hammer who was accused of abusing a lot of women and cannibalism and all sorts of things so and realize this is all you know, alleged at this point. Apparently, he has gone to the Cayman Islands and there’s no charges as of yet. But the number of women coming forward and their stories… in the end it was very compelling so be aware if you are going to watch it it is going to be triggering I found myself at several points having to stop and walk away so but it’s a good, it’s a good documentary and you will see patterns you will see behaviors that every single survivor of abuse has gone through the love bombing, the devalue, the discard, the lying, the gaslighting, the this, the that. So, it’s a really good documentary. And I’m glad they’re doing it because again, it puts a spotlight on Yeah, this this stuff happens. And it happens to people that you wouldn’t think it would happen to. So, there’s that. So, so much current events this week. So anyway, there is that.

So today, I want to cover two topics. It was brought to my attention that I didn’t quite finish covering the adult kids and drama and I also want to go into collapsed narcissist, collapsed personality disorder. So um, let’s start with finishing up the topic of adult kids and dramas. So, what if the adult kid is the one causing the drama? What if the adult kid is the one that has the personality disorder? What if they are narcissistic? What if they are borderline personality disorder? What are their narcissistic? What if they’re not getting help? What if they are the ones that are constantly roiling the pot, causing problems, dragging family members into it, etc., etc. This is super hard for the for the sane parent. So, it’s hard because you’re going to have to have incredibly strong boundaries as if they were a stranger. If you wouldn’t let a stranger behave like that, you sure as hell shouldn’t let a child and adult child behave like that either. They don’t have the right just because they’re your child to do this, and this is something that somebody brought up in a question that I think I am going to be talking about on Wednesday more.

But you know, what if they use their diagnosis, you know, oh, you can’t get mad at me. I have fill in the blank. No, that doesn’t fly. I’m sorry. That does not fly. That that’s just another way of using an excuse for your bad behavior. So bad behavior is not allowed to continue Absofreakinglutely. If they were not your child, would you put up with this? If the answer is no, act accordingly. And that’s hard. Because what I hear a lot of very codependent parents do is, but my God, it’s my child. And I’m like, Okay, and? because it’s an and world, would you put up with this from a stranger? No. Okay, well, then why are you putting up with it, but it’s my child, it doesn’t matter. This is, this is a boundary, you need to draw a boundary here. And whether they go and try to, you know, rally the troops or not, that’s going to tell you a lot about who the other family members are. Because again, if this person goes on a smear campaign, if this person goes on a, you know, I’m going to show you I’m going to make you look like the bad guy campaign and people are buying it, then you just now know who the flying monkeys in the family are. And, and the truth of the matter is, guys, and this is a hard truth. Sometimes the kids do end up with personality disorders. Sometimes the kids do act just like that ex, whether it’s the mom or the dad, or whoever had the personality disorder, and they’re not working on themselves, they don’t want to work on themselves. They’re adults, they’re not willing to go to therapy, they’re not willing to change, they’re not willing to do…. okay, they’re showing you who they are. That does just because you gave birth to them does not mean you need to put up with their abuse. Let me say that again. Just because you gave birth to them, does not mean you need to put up with their abuse, or just because you were the father, you don’t need to put up with their abuse. I’m sorry. You don’t need to put up with abuse from anybody and I don’t care who the H E double toothpicks they think they are. So you’re going to have to let go the guilt. Let go of the guilt and remember, personality disordered children, adult children love to use fear, obligation guilt. You know your my, Mother, you’re my father, how dare you you.

Kris Godinez  08:54

You can’t tell me to not do this or whatever. And guilt guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, and, it’s the same with any family member, you’ve got to just be like, No means no, this behavior is not going to fly. I’m not going to allow it. You don’t get to abuse me and you can call it out. And if they don’t like it too bad. You know, the other thing you can suggest is okay, you want a relationship with me. Here’s the ground rules, you and I go to a DBT family therapist, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy DBT Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. That is the only known modality that works with personality disorders, does it change narcissists? No! In the history of ever a narcissist has never not been a narcissist. And we’re going to talk more about that when I start talking about the collapse Narcissists so um, basically it’s that you treat the child you would anybody. If you were not related to this person if this were not your son or your daughter, would you put up with this? And if the answer is known, damn well better me. You don’t put up with it, you know what to do, you’re going to have to draw the strong boundaries.

Now, a lot of times I see parents incredibly codependent. But but but you know, and they’re siding with the abuser. So they’re doing that ego defense, that inner child because they hadn’t worked on the inner child ego defensive siding with the aggressor. And so they’ll sacrifice the other kids in order to appease the one child that is disordered. That’s not okay either. And I have personal experience with that my mom did that. My mom, I called her out on her behavior. I said, Look, you’re doing this, you’re harming these kids in order to appease this kid. What are you doing? And she just got that cutesy little look on her face because she knew what she was doing. And she’s like, Well, I’m not going to stop. You can’t make me and I’m like, No, I can’t make you but I can sure as hell call it out and not put up with it and not play. And I’m not going to. So yeah, she and I had some contention over that because it was like, Yeah, I see what you’re doing. And I’m not playing so. Um, but that’s what they do because they’re afraid of confronting that disordered person because it’s the inner child again, appeasing the aggressor. That’s an ego defense. So, work on your self-esteem if you’ve got a child that is disordered, and you find yourself cow telling to them at the expense of other kids. That’s not okay. That is not okay. I’m going to call that out right here right now. That is not okay. You need to work on self-esteem, self-esteem and boundaries. So, Self-Esteem workbook Glenn Schiraldi. You’re a Badass Jen Sincero, Badass Habits Jen Sincero. CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, any book on codependency seriously, start working on it, and you’re gonna have to say no, and you will be the bad guy.

Let’s just be clear about that. Whenever someone stands up to an abuser, they are then the bad guy. Which is why I’m so thrilled that people rallied around the people coming out on House of hammer. Although they did get trolls they did get a whole bunch of trolls going after them. But there was more people that were supporting them. And same thing with Brendan Fraser. I’m thrilled that he’s got people that are like, go you Yeah, this is happening. Yeah, that has happened. Yeah, you know, it’s like, you’re not, you’re not crazy, you’re not the problem. And that’s immediately what abusers do is they try to set it up that the person who is calling out the behavior is crazy, or lying, or doing it for attention, what when, who’s the person that’s crazy and lying and doing it for attention? That would be the abuser. So it anyway, I hope that that kind of answers the question. So if it’s an adult child that’s causing the drama, you’ve got to have strong boundaries, just as if you were dealing as if you were dealing with a stranger, or as if you were dealing with an ex or as if you were dealing with another family member that was disordered and you simply do not allow the behavior, allowing behavior is not going to make them healthy.

Kris Godinez  13:09

And I think that’s the thought that goes on in a lot of the codependent parents heads is that oh, if I give in, then they’ll see. And they’ll see that I love them. And they’ll stop behavior. No one. No, they won’t. And they don’t. And they won’t change. I cannot stress this enough. If it’s more than just traits of it, they’re not going to change, they’re not going to change, they’re not going to have an epiphany, they’re not going to suddenly be like, Oh, I have been a terrible child to my parent, I’m going to apologize on the you know, straighten up and fly, right and all of that. So that’s not going to happen. That’s not going to, if they are personality disordered then they are personality disordered. And they’re, if they’re not working on themselves, they’re not going to change. And if they’re a narcissist, they’re not going to change. And if they’re a dark triad, they’re not going to change. So um, anyway, there is that.

So, let me now kind of switch gears and the other half of this is going to be on Okay, so what if the narcissist collapses? What does that look like? Or what does it look like when somebody with borderline personality disorder collapses? So, the key to both of those collapses is usually rage. So, they will, how do I explain this? Okay? narcissists live in a false reality. Obviously, they think their doodoo does not stink, and they think they’re special and they think that they know more than everybody else, etc., etc., etc. So when that delusion gets blown up, either by them being outed, so they’re discovered, they’re exposed, you know, people are now aware of the behavior and aware of what they’re doing, or the person that they have decided was their narcissistic supply leaves them you know just and leaves them no way to get back at them and leaves them no way to you know regain power and all of that stuff. That’s when they do the narcissistic collapse and the funny thing of it is that oftentimes I will have the partner be like Oh, but they’re getting therapy now and Oh, but they’re so sad and Oh, but they’re, you know, it’ll be different next… Oh God, no people listen to me now believe me later. The narcissistic collapse is all about the narcissist. They don’t give a flying rat’s behind about anybody else. They’re having a pity party. That’s what they’re sad about. They’re not sad that they hurt you. There. There’s a hard truth guys, I can hear a lot of people out there going along. Yeah, buckle up, baby. It’s going to be bumpy here for a little bit. So, they don’t care that they hurt you. They don’t care. They don’t care. What they care about is their ego is hurt. That’s what they’re sad about. That’s what they’re crying about. That’s what they’re regretful about. They’re not regretting the way they treated you. They’re not regretting the way they acted. They’re not sad, that you’ve left. They’re sad. They don’t have power and control. When I say there is no they’re up there. There is no they’re up there. Crickets. There is no sympathy, no empathy, no feeling, no ability to put themselves into somebody else’s shoes. If it does not relate directly to them, they cannot relate to it. That’s that’s the crazy thing. I mean, this is this is when you know you’re dealing with somebody empathic, that has empathy, because they can’t go wow, what must it be like to be in that person’s shoes? You know, what must it have been like to be those photographers taking pictures of 911 and being helpless? And going, Oh, crap. This is a historical event. And I’m a human being and I got to take pictures. And I’m losing my mind right now. I couldn’t even imagine. I couldn’t I couldn’t even imagine. I couldn’t imagine being on the streets that day. And I can imagine. That’s why it’s so upsetting. But do you see where I’m going with that is like, if you can put yourself in somebody else’s shoes, you have empathy. If you can go wow, what must that have felt like? Gosh, you know, that’s Ooh, he, I just want to wrap my arms around them and just hug all of them. So no, I’m getting for farklimped. Okay. So, the point being is, is that narcissists can’t do that. They don’t care if it didn’t affect them, they don’t care. So like, you know, a narcissist will say things like, well, that doesn’t affect me. Why are you upset? That doesn’t affect me? What? What? Do you know what I’m saying? And that’s what they do, because they really, truly don’t get it because it doesn’t affect them. If it affects them, then they will care about it, but they won’t care about the other people it effects.

So where was I going with this? Oh, so a collapsed narcissists. So a collapse narcissists, when they lose power, control, they’re exposed, they’re embarrassed or humiliated.

Kris Godinez  18:10

They’re, they can’t, they can’t do the manipulation that they’re used to doing. Their partner leaves them and leaves them with no way to get back at them. What they’ll do is then they’ll do the, you know, ah, I need a therapist, I’m so depressed. And so they’ll seek out a therapist, and they’ll go literally for one to three times I kid you not. Unless they find a therapist, they can manipulate. And then they, you know, tell their partner Oh, I’m in therapy. Yeah, you went three times, dude, or dudette, you know, so they don’t ever change. They don’t ever really have that that epiphany that, that awareness, they are not self-aware. They never have been, they never will be in the history of ever that does not occur.

So um, anyway, so a collapsed narcissist is temporary. And this is, this is when a lot of people fall prey to the Hoover. This is when a lot of people fall prey to the Oh, but look how sad they are. Oh, but look how, you know, now they’re in therapy. And, you know, oh, but look at this. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you want to look over the long-term people. Long term behavior, not short term. So, what they’re counting on is they’re counting on you to take a look at what they’re doing right here right now. And again, they’re not able to keep up the façade, the mask, of working on themselves, because they’re not going to because they really don’t think they need to. And when they come into therapy, I can tell you that what they want to do is talk about the other person all the time, they don’t want to talk about themselves. And so when I start you know, after the first session when they start trying to talk about the other person, I’m like, Nope, you’re here for you. What are you wanting to work on and boom, that’s when they’re out. Because they don’t want to work on themselves because they know they know that they will be exposed for what they are. So, and they don’t want to deal with it, they don’t want to they don’t want to deal with the fact that they’re not perfect and that their doo doo does stink, you know?

So um All right, so a collapse narcissists, narcissists can express depression and sorrow, but again, the depression and the sorrow depression for them is repressed anger. They’re angry, that you got away, they’re angry that they’re not able to manipulate and control and, you know, do their raging and everything else that they’re used to doing. A collapse, Narcissist will express sadness, but it’s sadness that about them. It’s not about you, or the kids or anything else, okay. And it’s temporary, it is so temporary, it’ll last move a couple of weeks, maybe a month, maybe if you’re lucky, on a good day, if the wind is blowing in the right direction, so they don’t change permanently, ever. So, they’ll have this collapse, they’ll be depressed, they’ll be sad, or conversely, they will go on a vengeful rage and stalkers. So those are the those are the dark triads, those are the ones that go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, and decide that they’re going to get you and they start stalking and they start you know, leaving notes and calling obsessively and this that and the other thing, so they do kind of one or two things or a combination, okay?

Kris Godinez  21:31

And um, the stalking can last if they are dark triads, because that gives them a sense of power. So basically, it’s all about them realizing that they’re not God and they don’t like it and so they’re having a massive pity party and so it looks to the outsider that doesn’t hasn’t studied this stuff. Oh, you know, they’re feeling sad. Oh, they’re feeling depressed. Well, they don’t feel emotions the way you and I feel them seriously. I cannot stress that enough. When they are feeling sad or depressed, that depression is repressed anger, it’s going to come out trust me. The sadness is about them. It’s not about other people. There’s no regret. There’s no remorse. There’s no you know, wow, I affected this person that none of that zip zero, zilch, nada. So it’s, it’s deceptive for people looking from the outside. And if you understand what you’re dealing with, you recognize a class narcissist for what they are, because they can’t help but be nasty. Like, even when they’re doing their I’m so sad, blah, blah, blah, it will slip out. Oh, well, this person, you know, roar and they’ll, you know, say something disparaging or nasty about their partner or whoever they perceived harmed them, instead of working on them. Does that make sense?

So collapse Narcissists, it happens throughout the relationships. So, like when when the person leaves them, or when they don’t get that job promotion that they were certain that they were destined to get, you know, they’ll go into a huge depression and a huge funk and everything, usually taking it out on the people around them, okay? When the person leaves them, that makes them angry, it makes them depressed, because now they don’t have control over them. And they’re found in the old age homes, honestly. So it’s the same thing with borderlines, if the borderline personality disordered person has got a co morbid diagnosis of narcissism. Or if the narcissism is very strong, and then really strong traits of, they’ll do the collapse thing too when they don’t get their way, when they don’t, you know, have the power and control when they cannot manipulate when you say no to them. That’s usually when the raging happens.

I had a very bizarre situation. This is back when I was very first started. And this client was definitely BPD borderline personality disorder, full blown. And we were talking and I was recommending books for this person. And I said, you know, they’re also available on Audible, and for some reason that triggered this person to come unglued and rage. And I was like what the..? and you know, and when I went talk to my mentor, John Nixon, and we were talking about it, he was like, well, you pointed out that, you know, she may have a learning disability and she didn’t like that. And she came unglued when you suggested you know, reading it, or listening to it on Audible. And I say I do that for all my clients because not everybody is a reader. Not everybody likes reading it doesn’t mean you have a learning disability. It means you don’t like reading and you like listening better. And that’s how you learn, you know, and he’s like, Did you explain that to her? And I’m like, Well I tried to but she was literally throwing things and that’s bizarre you know, in the thinking is bizarre unfortunately with that personality disorder with borderline personality disorder because it borders on psychotic thinking So if their ego gets hurt, they will fly off into a crazy rage that you’re sitting here going. That’s not what I said, you know, and that was not the intention. But they heard it as a, you know, an attack or whatever. So basically, raging is the common denominator, lack of empathy is the common denominator between those two personality disorders and collapse.

Kris Godinez  25:28

So when there’s a perceived slight or perceived insult, or a perceived attack, or perceived anything, and they’re feeling insecure, and this goes for narcissists as well. And if they’re exposed, then yeah, that’s when the collapse happens. And these collapsed narcissists are most commonly found in the old age home.

So I’ve told this story 1000 million times, when they lose their looks, they can’t deal with it. Like literally, they cannot do they’re doing crazy things like, you know, dyeing their hair, really dark and trying to look young and, you know, all the plastic surgeries and, and just, you know, things where it’s kind of like you’re in your 70s or 80s. Now, there’s nothing wrong with looking good. I’m totally fine with that. But if you’ve got somebody who is obsessed, and I mean obsessed with, I need to look young, I need to look young. And it’s like, well, you need to look good. Yeah, for sure. I dig it. Looking good is good. But you know, you’re not 20 anymore, you’re in your 70s or 80s. But narcissists can’t cope with that, especially if they’re the somatic ones. If they’re the somatic narcissist, oh, my God, when their bodies start catching up with them, and you know, things go south, they are so angry, they are so angry, and they’re reeling at everybody, the nurses, the doctors, God, you know, the staff, other people. And narcissists are all about power and control. And when they start losing power control over their own body and their somatic Narcissus, holy crap, that’s, that’s when the doodoo hits the fan. And it’s also when they lose the money. Okay, they’re older, they’re in a in a care facility, they may have a power of attorney, they don’t have control over the finances anymore. They can’t dangle that carrot in front of their family members. They’re angry, and they’re bitter. And they’re just vengeful and rageful and nasty. And they can’t understand why the staff doesn’t kowtow to them. Like they can’t. Literally there’s no there there. It’s like, they can’t go, Oh, gee, I’m treating the staff like doodoo. No wonder the staff doesn’t like me, right. And like I said, there was this one woman down at the end of the hall, my mom had her little bedroom in this care facility, and the woman had another bedroom down at the end of the hall. And she hated my mother. Why? Because the staff love to come in and talk with my mom, because my mom would listen and give advice and joke with them and be pleasant and you know, tell them what a great job they were doing and treated them like human beings. Hello, you know what I’m saying? So but narcissists, don’t, because they can’t, they don’t see human beings as human beings, we have no more meaning to them than this eraser thing, you know, once it’s used up toss. And that’s what they do. And they do that throughout their lives. And when they collapse, they either do the Oh, and that’s the other thing I want to make you aware of is when they collapse, they can also do the self-harm. So they’ll do suicidal gestures, suicidal ideation. But it’s, how do I explain this, they still can’t imagine the world getting along without them. And they’re doing it to manipulate. They’re doing it to hook you back in and make you feel sorry for them. So be aware of that. They do use that as a manipulation. So collapse narcissists will do whatever they need to get back up on top. And their collapsedness unless they’re in an old age home does not last so realize when they’re seeking when they’re seeking therapy when they’re seeking, you know, to feel better about themselves one to three times maybe a month, and they’re out of there. Seriously, so you cannot count on that. To give them the wakeup call that they need. They just they there is no there there. I’m not kidding you. There is literally no there up there. Like not like zip zero, zilch, nada. They don’t feel emotions the way we do. They don’t process situations. The way healthy people do, I mean, Healthy People would be like, hey, treat people nicely. You know, and they’re more likely to treat you nicely back hopefully, golden rule, you know, or if somebody doesn’t treat you nicely, you avoid them, you know, and they just can’t seem to put it to it. Yeah, so the collapse narcissist goes into the rage, or they go into the pity party one of the two and they will use whatever manipulation they need to to get back up on top and get that narcissistic supply flowing again. So be very aware and very cautious when a narcissist when you’ve left a narcissist, and suddenly they’re telling you they’re in therapy it okay. Missouri, show me state your therapy for an entire year.

Kris Godinez  30:26

Okay, we’ll talk they won’t stay for a year and they’ll lie to you about it. Oh, yeah, I’ve been in therapy roll your, you know, no, they will trust me on that one.

So, anyway, so to recap what we were talking about today. If the adult child is the issue, you have got to draw boundaries, you cannot be held hostage to a terrorist 911. Isn’t that interesting? So we don’t negotiate with terrorists. We don’t. I’m sorry. If they start pulling the whole will. If you don’t do what I want. I’m going to do whatever, Uh, uh.  Fine. You do whatever you think you need to sweetheart, that’s going to ruin this relationship. And we’re done. You know. So even though it’s your own child, and I know a lot of codependent parents are like, but but but it’s my child. Okay. And if you were not related to them, would you let them do this? No, the answer is no. So why are you allowing your child to terrorize you? Why are you allowing your child to ruin the holidays, the birthdays of this, that etc. And it sounds cold it does. And realize when codependence start first start working on that codependency. It feels like we are being harsh and mean, when we say no, but the truth of the matter is, you need to say no. And no is not harsh or mean it is a boundary. And we all need boundaries. And the people who need them the most are disordered people. And you do not allow them to cross your boundary. Even if they are your own adult child, it is a matter of respect for yourself. And showing them this is not going to fly because here’s the deal. I see these parents doing this enabling with these disordered kids when they’re kids. And I’m just like, how do you think this is going to turn out? Nobody else is going to put up with this. Nobody else and the landing for them is going to be really hard. So you know, it’s really important. If you suspect your kid has got a personality disorder, get them into therapy, even though you’re divorcing the ex that is disordered. Make sure it’s in the divorce decree. And you can say oh, it needs to be trauma therapy because the divorce was traumatic. Trauma therapists are not stupid, we kind of figure that stuff out. So you know what I’m saying. So and you want to ask them the right questions of the trauma therapist, and you want to make sure they understand parental alienation. You want to make sure they understand personality disorders, you want to make sure they understand high conflict, divorce, etc., etc.

So on the flip side, talking about the collapse, Narcissists, collapse, narcissists will do a variety of things. But generally the two are either incredibly vengeful, you know, stalking, I’m going to get you raging, etc. or collapsing into a million tears poor me pity party, you know, I need to change, I’m going to work on myself. And so they go find a therapist. And that’s they’re sorry for themselves. They’re not sorry about you. They’re not sorry about what they did. They’re not sorry about any of that. So just be aware of that. And then like I said, you really do see that the collapsed narcissists in the old age homes, and they’re the ones that are just bitter. The somatic ones, they’re bitter, they’re angry, they’re railing at everybody and God and their dog literally, they’re, you know, just nasty, nasty, nasty, or they’re the ones who constantly do the suicidal gesture suicidal ideations in an attempt to manipulate the family members to come, take care of them, visit them, etc., etc., etc. So either way, not healthy. No bueno. Don’t put up with it. And don’t believe it. Don’t, don’t fall for it. consistent behavior is what you’re looking for. If somebody is really interested in working on themselves, they won’t have to be begged to go to therapy. Number one, how many of us out there begged our abuser to go to therapy, please just go to therapy, please just work on yourself, please just, you know, they don’t want to they’re not interested. So healthy people. If there’s a problem, they’ll be like, you know, maybe I should go to talk to somebody about this. What to do that, you know, and then they do and then they start working on themselves. And that’s what a healthy person does. But narcissist, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid because they don’t want to be found out. They’ll only go to therapy when they’re in the collapsed mode. I’ve had one that came to me a couple of times earlier on in my career, and both times it’s when the partner left them and you know, and it was like three times and then boom, they were out as soon as the spotlight It was on them. So, yeah, don’t fall for it and they’ll use it for the Hoover. Okay, let’s dive into the questions. Okay, let me get rid of this. Okay, going over here, okay.

Kris Godinez  35:14

I went no contact with my narcissistic mother over a year ago. I received a note last week asking me what she can do to make up. My gut says she isn’t sincere, your thoughts, please trust your gut. So if you’ve gone no contact with a family member. And they’re narcissistic, like, there’s no question like, you’re like, No, they were abusive. No, they did this. No, they did that. And they’re suddenly doing the, you know, oh, I just I want to make up blah, blah. Again, ask yourself this question. If you were not related to them? Would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly and realize, fear, obligation, guilt, but I’m reaching out, I just want us to work blah, blah. If you really do want to see if it’s sincere or not, okay, fine. I pick the therapist, it’s going to be DBT. And we’re going to have a real come to Jesus meeting, it’s not going to be pretty. So the probably she won’t follow through with it. But I would say trust your gut, what does your gut tell you? Not your head, not your heart? If you were not related to this person, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, and act accordingly, and write out the fear the obligation to guilt, Dear Mom, and you’re going to burn it, you’re not going to send it. Dear Mom, Wow, isn’t this interesting that you’re doing this manipulation of, you know, oh, you know, I don’t know what went wrong. And I just want to be, you know, friends with you, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m not falling for the fear. I’m not feeling falling for the obligation, and I’m not falling for the guilt. Have fun with that. Buh bye. Go pound sand, whatever you need to say trot it out to the barbecue, read it out loud once, burn it, let it go. And like I said, if you really do for some reason, want to see where this goes a DBT therapist Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. And you’re not going to put up with any in the bull, and neither is your therapist. And that’s why you need to interview the therapist thoroughly. Do you understand personality disorders? Do you understand narcissistic personality disorder? Do you understand this? Do you understand that? So if you don’t want to meet then don’t, you know don’t feel guilty about that. It’s like if people wanted their kids around in their old age, how about they not act like a bunch of ass monkeys? There you go. So there is that? Okay, um, all right,

Do narcissistic parents intentionally encourage narcissistic behavior in the child to create a mini me? Yes. And then regret when the child becomes a full blown narcissist that turns on its own parent. I don’t know that they regret it, but they do not like it when their child outshines them or does them or cannot be controlled by them. So narcissists seem to be Oh, okay with kids until the kid develops their own little personality. And then as soon as the kid develops their own little personality boy howdy, the narc turns on them. So, if they groom a kid to be a mini me, and then that kid becomes full blown narcissistic personality disorder and starts abusing them. It’s kind of divine karma. But yeah, they I don’t think they regret it. You know, I think that they’re angry that it didn’t turn out the way they thought they thought that they’d be able to continue to manipulate this child into adulthood. And beyond because remember, they think their God, they really do. They cannot imagine that they don’t have absolute power and absolute control. So yeah, I could see that happening. And yeah, they do turn their kids into Mini-mes. Absolutely.

Kris Godinez  39:12

All right. I love this topic. But what if it’s your cousin who’s the adult kid and their parents don’t want to listen to me about them. There’s nothing you can do guys. There is literally nothing you can do. So, it’s a cousin. And the parents are not willing to listen because they’re not willing to take responsibility they’re not willing to see it. They don’t want to see it. They don’t want to deal with it. They’re dealing with whatever weirdness is going on in their head. There’s nothing you can do. You know, it’s kind of like the Buddhist worry chart. Is there a problem? Well, yeah, there is the cousin has the problem. Can I do anything about it? Well, I’ve gone to the parents and I’ve told them or tried to tell them and they don’t seem to want to hear it. Okay. Let it go. Don’t be around the cousin. Don’t be around the cousin and see Who the flying monkeys are, you know if this cousin is the one causing problems, and the parents are not listening, Um not your problem, not your problem. You also don’t have to attend any family gathering that this cousin is at. Or if you do attend it, you don’t have to play whatever game the cousin is doing. So yeah, there’s very little you can do in that situation. You’ve already done what you can. So there is that.

What do you do when your family collapses together? How do you protect your own obsessive compulsive disorder? While your borderline personality disorder parent is depersonalizing you one day, and putting you on the pedestal the next while you’re still the scapegoat? You’ve got to get out. You got to get out. There’s you can’t I’ve had this question. I answered this. I’m going to answer this question on Wednesday when I do. The video. This question has been asked over and over and over again recently. So, I’m not quite sure why it’s all happening recently. But people have asked over and over again, how to deal with how to mitigate the low level abuse or how to deal with the abuse. If you’re an adult, get the hell out. Seriously, if you’re a kid, get help, find a social worker, call Child Protective Services, do whatever you need to talk to a teacher talk to the school counselor, you know, when you’ve got a family that is disordered and if somebody is intermittent positive rewards, you’re you’re a god, you’re the demon, you’re a god, you’re the demon, you know, that kind of thing. That’s horrible on a kid that already has obsessive compulsive disorder. So, you’re going to want to get help. So, get your own therapist, get out of there, get out of there, that is the best thing you can do, get help if you’re a kid, get an adult to help you, you know, a social worker, a teacher, a school counselor, somebody, if you’re an adult, look at getting out, look at getting out. It’s not worth it. So sometimes I have people go, but but you know, if I leave, I’ll be cut off and I won’t have this inheritance or this money or whatever. It’s not worth it, guys, if you’re not around to enjoy it. I can’t stress this enough abusive households. Almost everybody who comes out of abuse has got some sort of autoimmune issue going on, or some sort of adrenal fatigue going on, or some sort of anxiety disorder going on, or PTSD, CPTSD, because of the abuse. It’s not worth it get out. Seriously. I left home when I was 17. I couldn’t stand it. Couldn’t stand it. So, I supported myself working as a waitress doing catering, whatever I needed to cocktail waitressing. Whatever I needed to do in order to survive to get the hell out and stay the hell out. And was it hard? Yes, 110% was unnecessary. 110%. Because if I stayed in that household, I’m convinced my father would have raped me. And I’m convinced my mother would have continued to not do anything. And it would have been bad for me, I would have ended up dead one way or the other because I was suicidal when I was living in that house. So, if you are in a household that is disordered, chaotic, etc., find somebody to help you get out Adult Protective Services, Child Protective Services, a social worker, a teacher, somebody, a therapist, get with somebody to get out. You cannot stay safe. When you’ve got somebody who is circling the drain and decompensating and blowing up and raging and you know, you’re a god, you’re a demon, you’re a god, you’re a demon you there’s no way to stay safe in that there’s there’s literally no way to stay safe. That’s why I keep saying get out, get out, get out, get out there is no solution. You can’t fix it. You did not break it. You cannot fix it. It is not safe for you physically or emotionally or spiritually or any other level. Get out. Save yourself. That is the best thing you can do.

Kris Godinez  44:15

Okay, there’s a great book that might help you on your way out for dealing with borderline personality disorder, especially when they start collapsing and when they start decompensating and circling the drain and doing the crazy behavior. It’s called Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randy Krieger, it’s Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randy Krieger So, it’s really how to kind of cope with that, but it’s a coping strategy. It’s not a long-term thing. It’s for you to get out. So that’s a good book to read. Okay. Um, okay, where am I? Okay.

My narcissistic mom used to say do it ever you want, because asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission. Meanwhile, she’d never apologize. So where was the forgiveness? She didn’t care. Um, narcissists don’t care, let’s just be completely clear about that. They don’t apologize, they don’t care. The more antisocial they are the more dark triad they are. So dark triad psychopath, antisocial, narcissistic, Machiavellian, control freak, the more they are on that dark triad end of the spectrum, the less they think they need to apologize, because the rules don’t apply to them. They’re special. The rules don’t apply to them. Why should I apologize? rules don’t apply. You know, and they think they’re special. They think that they’ve somehow got a hall pass, and they can do whatever they want. And nobody’s going to call them out. They won’t have any consequences, etc., etc. So that’s kind of that magical thinking that they have. So yeah, they don’t apologize. And if they do apologize, they’re sorry, they got caught. They’re not sorry that they did whatever they did. They’re sorry, you noticed. So, their apologies are very superficial. I’m sorry but, I’m sorry you, I’m sorry you made me. They’ll flip it around somehow, it’s suddenly all your fault. You know, so they don’t apologize. And they don’t ask forgiveness, because it’s literally they think their doodoo does not stick. They have never done a wrong thing in their life. My dad used to say a very similar thing. And he also used to say something like, you know, I’m never wrong. I’m only temporarily mistaken. What? So yeah, they justify justifying their heinous acts by saying things like that. That’s what they do. So yeah, you’ll never get a real apology out of them. And there is no forgiveness because they don’t have empathy.

Okay, um, my family members tend to tell me I miss remember traumatic events and times from my childhood. And that I overdramatize events, but the feelings for me are very intense red flag. Yes, absolutely. Here’s the deal. Abusers don’t get to tell you that you’re not hurt. Let me say that again. Abusers don’t get to tell you that you’re not hurt. Perception is everything. If your perception was that it was traumatic, then guess what? It was traumatic. And in remembering or telling those stories, I think you’re looking for validation. The abuser is never going to validate the target ever. They’re never going to admit to their misdeeds ever, like ever watch House of hammer that’s going to bring that home pretty clearly. So um, yeah, it’s they will never validate your pain ever. They will never apologize ever. They will never take responsibility for what they are, what they what they did or what they could have prevented ever, like ever. So, I think the thing is to get with a really good trauma therapist start working CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker. Write it out, write a journal out that safe someplace safe. Write your story out. And abusers don’t get to tell you they didn’t hurt you. But they will say oh I that never happened gaslighting, you’re misremembering it you’re remembering it wrong. gaslighting rewriting history. Yeah, those are all red flags. So, get with a good trauma therapist. If you’re living with them. Get out. Get out, save yourself. Write out your story. This is what happened to me. That’s why I wrote my first book. What’s wrong with your dad? available on Kindle and on Amazon. But that’s why I wrote it is because I was like this happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened.

Kris Godinez  49:04

Oh, crap. It’s like, yeah, this did happen. So yeah. Because the disordered family members will be like, well, that never happened. Well, you’re remembering it wrong. Because an abuser is never going to validate your pain. They’re never going to validate that. Yeah, you’re remembering this right? Yeah, that was traumatic. Yeah, that did happen. Perception is everything if that is what you are perceiving the manager perception and they don’t get to tell you otherwise. Get with a good trauma therapist. Get with a good trauma therapist. Write it down in a safe place. If you don’t have a safe place. Don’t write it down until you’re in a safe place. But start writing it down journal. Get it out of your head, get it onto paper stop looking for validation from the people who hurt you. You’re never going to get it. So, there is that? Okay.

Oh, my sibling is mentally challenged, and my mom uses them as a flying monkey. What can I do? You’re going to have to stop telling them things seriously. So, flying monkeys especially siblings they’re used as spies, they are there, you know, find out everything, you can gather all the information, you can come back and report back to me. There’s no boundaries, there’s no boundaries. And if you’re dealing with a sibling who’s got mental issues, then it’s you know, boundaries are kind of this weird thing that they don’t understand. And the mom is enforcing the no boundaries. And you know, you’re, you’re the sibling, so you feel like you can talk to them, but then they run back, and they tell them everything, you’re going to have to just not tell them anything. And if they’re being used as a flying monkey, you stop hanging around them. And that’s really hard, really hard, because you love them, and you want to have a relationship with them. But as long as they’re a flying monkey, you can’t, it’s not safe. So, and again, if you’re out of the situation, and the other person is an adult, you know, you could tell them, it’s like, Hey, I don’t want this going back to mom. And if it does, then our relationship is over. You know, if there’s still a child and they’re under the care of that person, you’re going to have to be a little more careful, because they’re having to rely on them for food, shelter, etc.

So okay, um, my mom is trying to turn my kids her grandchildren against me. I feel guilty cutting her off from the kids. No, don’t feel guilty. Because everyone keeps telling me that kids need their grandmother. No, they don’t. Okay, for the love of God and all its holy. If a person is disordered, why in the hell would you want your children around them? Seriously, why don’t you want to be around them? You wouldn’t? It drives me crazy. When I hear these absolute flying monkey Jack wagons don’t know they’re a hole from a hole in the ground. Tell the target of abuse. Oh, but the children need their dad or their mom or their grandparents. Who were all abusive. No, the children do not need an abusive parent, grandparent, whatever in their lives. Absolutely not. And anybody who sits there and says, Oh, but they need to know they don’t know they don’t. If this grandparent is playing games and trying to turn your kids against you. Be Done. Be Done. Don’t put up with if you are not related to this person, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. Kids need healthy grandparents, healthy parents, healthy siblings, healthy family members, not disordered ones, not abusive ones. If they’re disordered and abusive, hell no. Hail to the know. And anybody who tries to guilt trip you with that is a flying monkey. Beware of flying monkeys are one or two things. So, you can either educate them and say, Look, are you aware that it is more damaging to have an abuser in their lives than have them completely gone from their lives? Are you aware of that? Have you read the studies? And let me give you these studies? Let me give you this. Let me give you Psychology Today. Let me give you that data. Right. And if after that, they’re still trying to pull that stuff. They have now shown you who they are. They are a minor narcissist themselves. They’re aligning with the major narcissist. Be done? They’re looking for drama. They’re enjoying the drama, they’re keeping the drama going. Don’t fall for it. Okay. Let’s see.

Kris Godinez  53:32

I went no contact with my parents two years ago, and recently have started dreaming about them, should I contact them? No. If you went no contact, it was for a reason. So, what you’re going to want to do is you’re going to write and write down all of the reasons why you went no contact. When we dream about an abuser. It’s not a sign from God that you need to contact them… could possibly be assigned from Satan. But also, in all seriousness, it is not a sign from God. It is not our brains will dream about things or people that were important to us at one time trying to reconcile why they’re not there anymore. It’s called a drug dream. Okay, in alcoholism and drug addiction, people will dream about their drug of choice when they’ve been clean and sober for you know, 25 years. It’ll happen out of the blue. Why? A stressor happened in life. You were thinking about them earlier in the day, your brain is still trying to figure out why that thing or that person is no longer in your life. It’ll happen, but it is not a sign to contact them. So, what you want to do is get with a good trauma therapist. Absolutely. I cannot stress that enough. It’s like yes, the books do so much. Yes, this this broadcast can do so much. But it’s good to work with your own trauma therapist. Why did you cut them off in the first place? What was occurring? What was how happening, what makes you think anything is going to be any different? And are you aware that when the target of abuse goes back, the love bombing gets shorter and shorter and shorter, and the nastiness gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So, you really want to take a look at what Inner Child Workbook Catherine Taylor, Inner Child Workbook, Luccia Cappacchione what’s driving you? What’s that? What? Is that the inner child is that the inner child that’s not been loved and comforted and healed? Going? Oh, I dreamed about them, I have to contact them. Wait a minute, why did you go no contact in the first place? If they were abusive? Why would you go back? So, get with a good trauma therapist, do not contact them until you have done so or do not contact them until you’ve written out what they’ve done to you and why you went no contact in the first place. And then revisit. Okay. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, make sure it’s for the right reasons, and not because the inner child is driving you to do so.

Okay, um, all right, one last question. And then we will call it a day. So, somebody was asking me about avoidant personality disorder. So avoidant personality disorder is where they avoid things, if they’re not assured success, it’s something they avoid it, they just they avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. And it’s, it’s a cluster, c cluster. C, I think, yeah, it’s a cluster C, I think it’s in with OCD. So, it’s, they avoid, they avoid situations where they’re not assured success, they avoid situations where they might not do it perfectly, they avoid things that you know, might bring them embarrassment, or whatever. So, they there’s rules start getting very, very small. And generally, it’s because they don’t want to be made fun of, they don’t want to fail, they don’t want to be humiliated, etc., etc., etc. So, they just avoid and it makes their world incredibly small. So again, if this is a situation that you are dealing with, please get with a good therapist, is it based in trauma? It can be, it’s an anxiety thing. So, get with a good therapist. There’s some good books on anxiety out there, and my brain is doing a complete blank right now. But you know, get with a good therapist get with a good trauma therapist work on that it can be overcome, it absolutely can be. But it’s the mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, it’s like, oh, if I do this, it’s catastrophic. If I don’t do it perfectly, or if I, you know, I can’t do this, because I’m not going to be, you know, I’ll be made fun of or whatever it is, like, in reality, nobody’s looking at you. Nobody is judging you. The only person judging you is either your abuser in your head, or you. So get with a good threat therapist, trauma therapist, or a good therapist to start working on that avoidance because it’s making your world incredibly tiny and the world is big and beautiful. And there’s a lot more good people than there are bad so it’s important to start opening your world up and work on you and love you and self-esteem like nobody’s business mirror work. Hi, good to see you have a great day. It’s okay to try new things. It’s okay to do things. It’s okay to try things I’m scared of. It’s okay to fill in the blank but do get with a good therapist. So, all right, my loves that is that you guys have a great week and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Kris Godinez  58:30

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.


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