We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

10-31-2021 EX IN LAWS, SIBLINGS, FAMILY HOLIDAY HOOVERS
In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses how to deal with the hoover season, guilt tripping, and in laws, ex laws and siblings oh my!!

Audio coming soon

TRANSCRIPT

Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:02

We’re talking about toxic families, holidays, ex laws, in laws, exes hoovering. The hook is we’re in the season, tis the season for the Hoover.

So let me address what the question was that was asked on my, on my personal page, so to make sure that this person gets the help they need. So Okay, the question was, I’m an older sibling, I’ve got younger siblings that are still stuck at home. I’m not quite out of the situation, yet. I desperately want to help them. What do I do? Okay, so first and foremost, if you’re still in the situation, it’s really hard to help yourself and it’s really hard to help the other kids because there’s so many dynamics going on. So, there’s, um, you know, you’ve got the best way to help the other kids is to help yourself that’s the short answer. Best way to help the other kids is to help yourself, get yourself stable, get yourself into therapy, get yourself working on all of the books, the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, The Inner Child Workbook by Katherine Taylor, get yourself set. And then you can turn around and pour into their pots. So, you cannot pour from an empty pot is basically what it is. So, it always boils down to self-esteem, self-esteem, self-esteem, self-esteem, you work on your self-esteem, you help them with their self-esteem, once you get out, then you can start helping them a little bit more with their self-esteem. And once they’re legally adult, I just don’t understand….

Don’t get me started about these parents that are like, “Oh, I can’t wait until they’re 18. So I can get rid of them.” And my dad was like that. And at age 18 I was so immature. Because of the hobbling that I got from my family, I wouldn’t know how to care for myself, I wouldn’t know how to balance a checkbook because they wouldn’t let me when I was a teenager learn all the basic skills. Because remember, they hobbled us, so you get yourself set. And as you’re getting yourself set, encourage them with a self-esteem, encourage them with the mirror work, you know, and you can teach that to them. And they can do that on their own. Okay, in the mirror without the parents around. So, it’s, yeah, it’s, I know where you’re coming from sweetie, and you do the best you can. You know, and hopefully they want to help. That’s because you’re going to…

This is what I want to talk about. Some siblings just don’t want to help some siblings are bonded; trauma bonded to the abusive parent. And so, they’re not going to leave that abusive parent, they’re going to feel guilty. They’re going to feel fear, obligation and guilt. So, the best thing to do is get with a therapist as soon as you can start reading the books that I recommend fill your own pot, get your self-esteem, where it needs to be rock solid, you can turn around and teach the younger ones what you’ve learned. And then hopefully when they become adults, they will want to get out of there themselves. So, ooh I’m so sorry, I couldn’t answer that on the I PM because like I said it. I don’t want to No offense but I just I’m trying to keep private, private and public, public. So, so anyway, I hope that answers your question. If it does not if you need a little bit more specifics, Pm me on We Need to Talk with Kris Godinez or Kris Godinez, LPC public speaker page either one of those two because I’ll see those I say first because for some reason face don’t get me started metta weirdness anyway.

Okay, so let’s talk about this season. Let’s talk about continuing with the in laws, the ex-laws, the exes, holidays hoovering. Tis the season Hoover so and I’ve said that several times and then some. People are like why are you repeating yourself? Well because this is important. So, between now and February, middle of February, Valentine’s Day, between now and February is Hoover season between now and February is guilt tripping season. Between now and February is fear, obligation and guilt season. Seriously, I’m not kidding you So these toxic parents, toxic in laws, toxic ex laws, toxic siblings, toxic sibling in laws, all of them behave the exact same way. They use fear, they use obligation and they use guilt.

So recently, I’ve had several clients struggling with telling their toxic parents, no, we are not coming over to your house for Thanksgiving. No, we are not coming over to your house for Christmas, I will host it at my house. And of course, the toxic parent who’s a control freak, freaked out and started a smear campaign and the whole thing. So basically, what I want to get everybody thinking about is that you have the right to have boundaries you do. But these parents over here, whether they’re in laws, ex laws, or your own parents, if they are disordered, they are never going to respond the way you think that a normal person would. And what’s really tripping the people out that are trying to draw boundaries is that the inner child is feeling guilty for drawing a boundary, the inner child is feeling sad for having to draw a boundary the inner child is feeling abandoned, hurt, etc. So, this is why it is so important to understand toxic people don’t respond or act, or think or feel the way we do. And coming into the holiday season. Halloween tonight, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year’s, and Valentine’s Day. All of this is an opportunity for the abuser to Hoover all of these are an opportunity for the abuser to get us to walk down memory lane. Oh, wasn’t it so great when we had all the family together? And of course, they’re completely, you know,

Kris Godinez  06:51

waxing over or whatever that’s called, you’re smoothing over the fights or the dysfunction or the drunkenness or the abuse or whatever, you know, they’re not. So, they’re trying to play on the sentimentality of the season and and adult. adult in laws, you know, parents in laws do this. They work on the spouse, oh, well, but you know, we’ve always had this family tradition.

So, here’s what drives me crazy once a kid gets married, okay, they have the right to have their own traditions, let them have their own traditions. If the family is not allowing that spouse, those kids to go have their own traditions, Houston, there is a huge problem. Because yes, it is kind of sad for the mom and the dad, oh, things are changing. Oh, you know, they’ve got their own family now, or they’re their own unit now, or, you know, we’re gonna have to do things differently. But a healthy normal Mom and Dad would go, great, go have your own holiday, have fun, we love you let us know how it goes, you know. And then the healthy mom and dad go off and do their own thing. And the couple goes off and does their own thing. But with dysfunction, that is not allowed doing your own thing is not allowed. Because remember with somebody who’s disordered, whether that is narcissistic personality disorder, or whether that is borderline personality disorder, the further they are down the line, the more rigid their thinking is. And the less ability they have to allow other people to think differently from them. So, with the narcissist, it’s a power and control thing with the borderlines. It’s a fear thing, because it’s like, well, no, you have to think the same way I do because they think they’re wrong. Otherwise. So, it may not be the case, just maybe I just want to go do Thanksgiving without the family I maybe want to go to I don’t know, Maine, never been to Maine, I’d like to Maine. But anyway, the point is that, you know, you want to do something different and instead of just going oh, they want to do something different. A personality disorder person will take it personally and they will internalize it and then they will strike out like, like, Cobra.

So, in other words, when you draw boundaries be prepared. The narcissistic family or the or the disordered family, whether it’s in laws, whether it’s your parents, whether it’s your siblings, whatever, they are going to take it personally, the boundary, because they don’t like the word no, we’ll talk about that in a minute. And they will strike out so it’s tallionic thinking, it’s that eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, I’m going to get you tit for tat. You did this.

Kris Godinez  09:25

I’m going to do that. You know, there’s it’s it’s very childish. It’s extremely childish, you’re dealing with somebody who’s probably on the level of a one-year-old at that point. So, because it’s reactionary, it’s reactionary. It’s not a thought-out thing. But hold on. No, I don’t mean not thought out as in Oh, they’re innocent. No, they know what they’re doing. But this is a knee jerk reaction. This is them being nasty. This is them being controlling this is them being manipulative, this is them, you know, etc. So, alright, so I had some questions on Toxic in law siblings, so brothers in law sisters in law.

So, it’s not always the parents that are the only problem. Sometimes it’s brothers in laws and sisters in laws, and there’s not a whole lot you can do. So, here’s the big question to ask yourself, I have said this before, I will say this, again, if you were not related to these people, would you in fact, have anything to do with them? And if the answer is no, act accordingly. Now, what’s going to happen is and this is what I’ve been seeing with my clients, because this happens every year, start feeling guilty for saying, No, we have a right to say no, let me just be very clear about that. If we don’t want to have the family drama, on any and all of these holidays, we have the right to say no, we have the right to not engage and this goes not just for the family dramas. With the holidays, this goes for year-round. But narcissists and abusers, narcissists. borderlines abusers do not like the word no, because it takes their power away from them. And it gives you your power back. No is a Power Word. No is a safe word no is the word that keeps your world sane? Seriously, but when we have people pleasing stuff going on, it is incredibly hard for us to say no, and especially to an abuser. Why? Because what I see them do is if the intimidation doesn’t work, remember how I talked about how you know, covert or overt abusers tend to use intimidation and fear. And the covert ones use guilt? Well, what I’ve seen the covert ones do is the why, but why, but why, but why but like, like a two-year-old, like a three-year-old. But why, but why, but why, but why? And you’re going to just have to be a broken record.

So It seriously is like,

Kris Godinez  11:56

and I had this question, this is probably going to come up. It’s like you’ve been parentifide, you’re the parent, they’re the three-year-old and you’re having to be like because I said no, no means no, we’re not having this conversation. No means no. And then you walk away. Now the other thing I’ve seen these parents and I use that term loosely, do is that they will then blow up the phone. You know, you know why aren’t you talking to me and why or why are you da, da, da, da, da, you know and accusing you of everything under the sun or they’ll start texting repeatedly. It’s obsessive compulsive. So, remember as the borderline and as the narcissist slides further and further down the line of darkness, the dark triad. So, as they slide further into malignancy, all of the personality disorders start over lapping seriously and they start expressing obsessive compulsive, avoidant, narcissism, borderline histrionic, I mean, they do, they just start expressing and it’s kind of hard to tell what the heck’s going on, you know, unless you know what’s going on. So, then it’s shocking to the kids to be like, What the What is going, and they will so they’ll blow up your phone that with texts with phone calls with you know, whatever, if that does not work.

Now, here’s the big thing. You have the right not to answer you have the right to turn the phone off. You have the right to give them the ringtone of highway to hell, you have the right to not pick up that phone.  You’re an adult, you are under no obligation. Listen to me now, believe me later. You are under no obligation to answer. You do not have to attend every argument you’re invited to. And they’re used to you attending every single argument that you’ve been invited to. Because they trained you to do that. They trained you to feel guilty if you don’t pick up because what would they do if you didn’t? Well, where were you? What were you doing who you with and da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Uh uh! Don’t explain yourself. Listen to me. Now, believe me later. You do not have to explain yourself. You also don’t want to overshare with these people if you are choosing to not have anything to do with them for the holidays. And you’ve decided to go off on a holiday of your own adventure of your own. If you tell them oh well. We’re going to I don’t know some extremely beautiful place Vail or or Estes Park or you know something beautiful for Christmas or whatever. I guarantee you they will have some medical emergency that week that you’re supposed to be gone. That’s what you don’t tell them anything. You don’t tell them anything. They plan this stuff out. Listen to me now believe me later, they will ruin it. They ruin every single major holiday, every single major event. graduations, birthdays, Christmas anniversaries, you name it, if you tell them you’re going somewhere, they are going to ruin it. So don’t tell them don’t over share. They don’t need to know. Where are you going? Oh, we just have other plans will be around. We just have other plans. They don’t need to know it’s none of their business. And that drives them crazy because they’re so used to being in control. They’re so used to being, you know, manipulating, controlling, etc, etc, etc.

So, I wanted to go through dealing with toxic family members, and this is on Web MD, which I know WebMD everybody laughs at WebMD because everybody reads WebMD and thinks they’re dying. But this is actually a really good article. So, it’s called how to deal with toxic family members by Janie McQueen. Okay, so it goes through what is She’s a licensed social, oh, Sharon Martin, a licensed social worker in San Francisco. She’s the author of CBT workbook for perfectionism, and better boundaries workbook, I would suggest getting those and reading those. Alright, what is toxic behavior? Not showing concern for your feelings, needs or rights? How many times have you shared something with a sibling, and they made fun of you, or they ran back to the, you know, the, the abusive member of the family and told them everything you said, or they did some thing, they did something to harm to hurt to whatever, so they don’t respect boundaries. So, if you tell a sibling, you know, hey, I don’t want this going anywhere. And suddenly you find it is like, you know, AP news, then  now they’ve shown you who they are, believe them above first time. Okay. Acting harsh and critical. You can’t do anything, right. And this is usually the parents that do this. But siblings can do this as well.

Kris Godinez  16:31

You know, so you decide to make, I got hair in my mouth dog hair. Hello. Um, you decide to make Thanksgiving dinner and you’re cooking it a little bit differently this year, you’re trying a new recipe. And what an abusive person will do is they’ll go well, that’s not the way we do it. You know, why are you doing it that way? Well, it’s because I’m trying something new. But remember, when they’re further down on the malignant line of thinking, they can’t stand different, they can’t stand different, because they’re not in charge. They don’t know what to expect. It’s scary to them, etc, etc, etc. So they’re harsh, and they’re critical.

Um, calling you names. So, you know, if you have a sibling, or a parent that calls you names, that’s not okay. That’s toxic. That’s, and I’m, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to work with clients, couples counseling when I used to do couples counseling, and I would have to explain to them that calling their beloved, a Biotch or an A hole was not a term of endearment. Like seriously, I mean, just common-sense kind of things. Because that’s how their families did things. They called them names all the time. We’ll flip that and go, Oh, they love me, oh, they’ve got a nickname for me. Well, dumbass is not a loving nickname. Sorry, you know, so you really got to take a look at that, you really got to take a look at you know, what was the norm in your family? And how is that affecting your relationship? Now? Are those name calling things harming your partner? And if they are, you got to stop. You know, so it’s, it’s things that and this is not just young kids. I mean, I can understand it when I was working with like younger couples, like, you know, early 20s, late teens, early 20s, I could understand it because they hadn’t been exposed really to anything different. But when you’re dealing with somebody who’s in their 40s and 50s, and they’re still doing the name calling Houston there’s a problem that that’s abusive. Sorry. No, thank you. Why are you doing this? So, name calling that is definitely toxic behavior, violating your boundaries over and over and over again. So, you tell that toxic parent or that toxic sibling No. And what do they do? Well, but why? But why? But why? But why? But why? That’s a boundary violation when somebody tells a healthy person no, that healthy person goes okay. Boundary Okay, backing off. I get it dig it. Sorry. You know, there’s that Okay.

Um, all right, refusing to compromise with you on anything so coming up to the holidays again, if you decide you want to have Christmas at your house and the family or the in laws are like no, we’ve always had our house and da, da, da, da, da and unwilling to compromise like let’s do Thanksgiving at your house and we’ll do Christmas at ours that’s a compromise you know, if you can stand them, but they won’t do that, they don’t compromise toxic people do not compromise toxic siblings do not compromise you always have to meet them on their ground, their agenda, not middle ground, or vice versa. Not sharing. They don’t share, they don’t play well with others. Let’s just put it that way.

So okay, hold on. Alright, um, they act entitled. That’s narcissism. They always have to be right, always, even when they’re dead wrong. So, this is not only the hoovering season guys, this is gaslighting season. And you need to be very well aware of that. So also, I had somebody talk about how their narcissistic mother, just gaslit them. Gaslit them, gaslit them, gaslit them, gas lit… well you, you said and did this, when they didn’t, and I never, I never was abusive, when they were. So, remember abusers have got abusive nature, they “forget” bunny ears, what they’ve done and they will project onto you the things that they’re doing or accuse you of the things that they are going to do. So you’re going to be dealing with a lot of that, you know, and this is the time of year when if you’ve gone no contact with abusive family with a toxic sibling or in laws or sibling in laws or family or parents or cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, this is the time of year will they will suddenly you know, slip back around and try to slip in using guilt, using fear, using obligation, using the walking down the primrose path. Oh, wasn’t it so wonderful when we did this thing? So yeah, um, yeah. And they always have to be right. And if you call them on their behavior, they’ll deny it. Or they’ll say you don’t you’re not remembering it right. That’s the one thing I’ve heard a lot of you’re not remembering it right. And I’m just like, ah, yeah, they are. Yeah, they’re remembering it right. So it’s gaslighting. It’s getting you to question your own reality, it’s getting you to question what you know to be true. Because if you’re questioning it, that’s their opportunity to slip the foot in the door, and start wedging their way in and going, Oh, you’re not remembering that, right, I’m really a good person, we need to be together, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba you know, whatever that is. So be very aware of that.

Trust your gut. This is why I say write things down that have happened over the holidays that you don’t want to have happen again. What has happened, every single holiday that you’ve had to spend with these bozos and you never want to experience again, for me, with my dad, there was not a holiday that did not end in tears, he would inevitably hit me. I mean, I was his favorite punching bag. You know, and and he would ruin the dinner or he would ruin the day or he would ruin whatever we were doing. And up to that point in time, we’ve been kind of having a good time. So, it’s like they can’t stand peace and quiet. Don’t expect them to behave well write down what they did and why you don’t want to be spending the holidays with them. You have a right to peace and quiet, you have a right to have a joyous fun holiday no matter what that holiday is, whether it’s Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year’s, whatever, you know, so write down what they did so you can remember Oh, yeah, this is why I don’t want to have them around. This is why I am not interested. Thank you.

So a narcissistic mother-in-law, for example, will ruin the daughter in law’s birthday every year without fail, without fail. And if a couple somehow manages to sneak off and go do their own thing, that mother-in-law will be waiting for them, to punish them, to do the poor me, to do the whole. What did you get me, you know that, remember how I talked about if you got your own job, and you’re working that in law will then demand that you buy them things or that you if you buy something nice for yourself, you have to buy them something nice. This is not a just in laws. I’ve seen narcissistic spouses do that I’ve seen you know, abusive parents do that. I’ve seen abusive grandparents do that. It’s a disorder because they think they’re entitled, they think they’re entitled to your money and your time. So there is that.

The rules don’t apply to them. The rules don’t apply to them, making unfair demands of you. So, they will demand that you and your spouse and your kids drive eight hours to go do Thanksgiving, but they won’t put up you they won’t put you up, you know, they’ll, they’ll you know, demand that you spend days and days and days with them and not acknowledging that both of you work and the kids have got school, you know that I see a lot so it’s, it’s amazing to me and siblings do this too.

So, siblings will be like, well, you know, you need to come here and spend two weeks doing this and it’s like, you know, the person works the person’s got a job they, they don’t get paid if they don’t work so you know what is that about? But since you know narcissistic siblings, narcissistic siblings in laws refuse to acknowledge that anybody else’s wants or needs exist and you’ve got to stop thinking that they’re ever going to put you guys on the front burner ever for anything, for anything.

And I think part of the questions that I was getting over this last couple of weeks doing this stuff on in laws and X laws and exes and this that the other thing is what if your spouse absolutely is not seeing it? You know what if they are making excuses What if they are going along with the abusive family that then you’ve got a real problem, that’s when you’re dealing either with a minor narcissist themselves, or they’ve just been so indoctrinated that they need therapy, if they’ll go get it, if they refuse to go get therapy, there’s your answer. Anybody who’s unwilling to go get therapy, when their spouse comes to them and says, Houston, we got a problem. You know, your mom and dad are doing this, this is harmful, this is hurtful, you know, we need to go to therapy to get on the same page. And if they go, No, I’m not going to therapy, there’s nothing wrong, that’s when you got to start looking at getting out. Because they are probably just following along with the narcissistic BS that’s going on in their family, a healthy normal person, a healthy spouse, or a healthy your spouse whose family may have narcissism in it is able to go Yeah, you’re right. That’s not normal. I’m going to go get help. And they do. They do. But the ones who are narcissists themselves, they don’t. So be aware of that.

Okay. I’m not taking responsibility for their actions. So, the gaslighting like I talked about, oh, I never said that. I never did that. I’m blaming others for their mistakes or flaws. How are we doing on time? Oh, jeez, Louise. They never apologized, you know, anybody who never apologizes and doesn’t do a really sincere apology, you’re dealing with somebody who’s toxic. You’re dealing with somebody who’s abusive, you’re dealing with somebody who’s disordered. And you don’t want to be around. Healthy normal people clean up their messes, you know, Clean up on aisle three, my bad, I did that. I’m sorry, how can I make this better? What amends can I make? You know, are you try to make amends. If they let you, you do. If they don’t, you don’t. You know, you know?

Okay, hold on. And we’re going to get to the questions Hang on. Um, wild mood swings, behavior swings and sessions of rage. So, the mood swings. So, this is what my dad would do, he would go from fine at the family meeting until he had a thought in his head and decided I looked at him the wrong way. And then I’d get backhand, you know, or they go from happy to sad or happy to angry or happy to, you know, whatever other emotions, lots of drama, lots of drama. So, if this is happening at your holiday get togethers, this is your clue, you don’t need this, you don’t need this. And you don’t have to tell them why. I’m sorry, we’re just not going to be there this year, we’ve got other plans, and you leave it at that. And if they blow up your phone demanding to know what or if they start sending the flying monkeys, you don’t have to respond, you’re not obligated to respond or engage in every single argument you’re invited to. So, I just want to remind you that.

Okay, quickly, one more thing. They lie or guilt you to get their way. So, they lie to you. Oh, well, you know, that creepy uncle that abused you won’t be at the dinner, and then you show up and the creepy uncle who abused you is at the dinner. How many times does that happen? A lot, a lot. And that’s not okay. And you have the right to go bye, seeya, peace out, hasta and not deal with it, it’s not your problem. If they do that, if they lie to you, you don’t have to engage, manipulating you to get control or take advantage of you or others to get what they want. Um, so it’s a pattern of behavior, you know, once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three or more is a pattern. So, if somebody is guilting, you and this is all the time. So, you got to set clear boundaries, keep your distance, keep your distance low to no contact is the best way to deal with these people.

Kris Godinez  28:33

Yeah, and you’ve got to stop expecting them to behave like normal. And I think that is where a majority of survivors of abuse get really screwed up is because they keep going, it’s the inner child, that keep wanting them to be normal to keep begging them, you know, why can’t they just be normal, I just want them to be normal. Well, they’re not going to be, they’re not going to be so it’s a little bit of acceptance, there that you’re going to have to start dealing with radical acceptance, you know, this is what it is, this is not ever going to be any different, they are always going to be crazy, they are never going to be normal. They will do the intermittent positive rewards, be prepared and be aware of that. They will, you know, occasionally behave, but I can guarantee you it’s gonna go right back into crazy land. So you’ve got to really work with the inner child and get that inner child understanding this is intermittent positive rewards. This is not them changed behavior. changed behavior means they’ve gone to therapy, they’ve worked the books, they have a therapist, they’ve been in therapy for more than two times. Like more like a year and a half, three years, you know, and they’re working on that behavior. Other than that, it’s not changed behavior. If they do it again. They’re not sorry. They’re sorry, they got caught, but they’re not sorry.

Okay, let’s hit the questions. Oh, and I’m gonna need my glasses. Okay. Hang on. Oh, what do I do if my ex-siblings still think of me as their big sister and keep asking me why I don’t want to visit I do tell them do I tell them the truth or keep face for them? Well, it depends. If the siblings are if my exes siblings are your exes, siblings? That changes the question. Okay, so what do I do if my ex’s siblings still think of me as their big sister and keep asking why I don’t come to visit? Do I tell them the truth? Or keep faced with them? Hmm? Well, I don’t know the situation and I don’t know the exes siblings, but you have to ask yourself, it’s like what is to be gained by telling them the truth? Will they accept that? Or will they run back to your ex, and start a big family drama. You know, and, and if you enjoyed the ex’s siblings, if you liked them, there’s nothing that says you cannot go out to coffee with them, but just be very guarded, you know, keep up a guard, you don’t have to share everything, you don’t have to tell them everything you can, you know, you can still see them if you want. But if they have shown you a different side of themselves, that is not nice, that does do flying monkey that does do harmful, hurtful, etc, then you don’t have to, and just you know, I’m sorry, really busy, you know, you just keep them at arm’s length, if that’s the case, but if they’ve done nothing, and it’s just because they’re related to your ex, you could go out to coffee with them, have your shields up phasers on stun, you know, and give them nothing, nothing that you don’t care to have go back to the ex. So, it’s up to you. And it depends on your relationship with them. You know, and especially since they look at you like a big sister, it’s, you know, what are you comfortable with? What, what is your gut telling you do a pro and a con list? What are the pros of seeing these kids? What are the cons of seeing these kids? When I say kids, I mean, probably adults, but you know, so do you see where I’m going with that. So, write it out, trust your gut, don’t make yourself wrong. If you decide to go no contact that that is your right especially if your ex was abusive, and if you don’t trust them. So, you know, you really kind of have to see how you feel and see what the pros and cons are and then go from there. And if you feel you can do coffee with them and keep it you know, civil and kind of distant then do that. You know, but if you don’t feel safe, don’t do it. So, it’s really kind of going with your gut.

I have been no contact with my narcissistic alcoholic mother since August. Am I a terrible person? If I don’t call her on Thanksgiving or Christmas? No, of course not. Here’s the deal, guys.

Kris Godinez  32:28

When we go no contact, no contact is no contact. And especially when somebody is verbally physically abusive. Any of those mentally abusive, emotionally abusive, they’re drug addicts or alcoholics. behavior has not changed. They’re not in a they’re not in a rehab. They’re not changing. They don’t have a therapist. Why in the hell would you walk back in to that? You are under no obligation? Fear, obligation? Guilt? Oh, so who’s telling you you’re a terrible person? Huh? Is that flying monkey is kind of like the church lady there. It’s a flying monkey. It’s perhaps, you know, seriously, it’s like, Who’s telling you you’re a terrible person? So here’s the deal in our society. We have got this weird Judeo Christian thing about honor thy mother and father in the very next line is parents do not bring your children to anger, it is a two-way street. It is you know, and we are under no obligation to have a relationship with somebody who is harmful, hurtful or abusive. We cannot fix them, because we did not break them and having contact with that person is not going to help that person, it’s not going to change that person. It’s not going to make that person get better or whatever. All it’s going to do is harm us. So, when I’ve had clients that did go out of guilt, and out of some flying monkey, okay, flying monkeys are the ones that are going to come around on the behalf of the abuser. Why aren’t you calling your mother? Why aren’t you talking to your father? Why aren’t you you know, and they don’t know the situation or maybe they do know the situation and they’re intentionally siding with the abuser. There’s your clue. Anybody who is siding with an abuser after knowing what has been going on, is abusive themselves. Flying Monkeys are one of two varieties. So, they’re either you know, Pollyanna don’t understand. They’ve never been around abuse, they don’t get it. They don’t know how it works. They don’t understand how an abuser can be intentionally evil they don’t you know, they just don’t get it right. So, there’s those and those can be educated and if it can’t be educated, then they are the other kind which is a minor narcissists themselves. They’re enjoying the drama, they’re enjoying the chaos, they’re enjoying stirring the pot. They’re enjoying, you know, throwing gasoline on the fire and then sitting back on Oh, you know, warm. Yeah, those types. You know what I’m saying? So, yeah, you are under no obligation to call anybody for anything unless you want to. Now, if you do choose to get into contact with your parents knowing that they’re an alcoholic and that they’re abusive, be prepared, be prepared for the guilt tripping, be prepared for the obligation and be prepared for the fear because that’s their currency. That’s what they do. If they’re not working on themselves, it’s never going to be any different. So don’t feel guilty for choosing, choosing you and your safety over contacting an abuser and stroking their ego. That’s what I got to say about that.

Okay, um How can I stop feeling guilty for feeling like I’m leaving my narcissist behind if I grow and heal? Well, you’re leaving your narcissist behind as you grow and heal. narcissists do not change. Why are you feeling guilty? Who is causing the guilt Who taught you to feel guilty for doing better than someone else?

Kris Godinez  36:07

Inner Child workbook, Catherine Taylor, guarantee it you’ve been groomed. Some narcissistic parents cannot stand it when their child or anybody out does them when somebody does better than them. How dare you? How dare you do better than me? How dare you be more successful? How dare you? And so we start feeling guilty for existing. And I talked about this a couple of weeks ago, you don’t feel guilty for existing guilty for having basic needs, guilty for doing well, guilty for getting a degree, guilty for having a successful career, guilty for having a successful business, guilty for being happy, guilty for being sad. You know, we just feel guilty all the damn time because they’ve trained us to feel guilty. So, what I would do is I would write a letter to the guilt and it would be a go pound sand letter Dear guilt. Bleep the bleep bleep bleep out of bleeping BLEEP you I refuse. I refuse. I am putting this guilt back to the person who taught me to feel guilty whether that it was mom, dad, grandparents, lover, boss, whatever, CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving chapter three, put it back on the abuser. That’s where it belongs. That’s where you learn that you have a right to exist. You have a right to heal, you have a right to be the best person you can possibly be. The abuser is choosing not to it is a choice. They don’t want to change. They don’t because they enjoy the power. They enjoy the power. They enjoy the control. They enjoy the conflict. They enjoy hurting and hurting people. They enjoy it. And that’s why they do it. And that’s why they don’t apologize because they’re not really sorry. So yeah, they absolutely know what they’re doing and don’t feel guilty. They, how many, when my dad died one of the things that all of us said my my older sister, my middle sister me, how many chances did he get to go to therapy? Well, at least three or four that I know of? Because each one of us asked him to “Dad you need help” “Dad go to therapy” “Dad, this is not working.” “Dad, this is crazy.” You know, and he never would do it. He wouldn’t do it. You know, I’m sorry. But if a child came to me and said Hey, Mom, you know I really want to have a relationship with you. Would you be willing to go to therapy? Yes, I would. Because I would want to have the relationship. Relationships mean nothing to narcissists we have no more meaning to a narcissist than this pen. We are something to be used and that is it. And they don’t want to work on themselves because they don’t want to find out that they’re wrong because they are! So there is that! So they have plenty of opportunity to work on themselves and they don’t take it you know if you’re leaving was not enough of a wakeup call for this person. There is not going to be anything on the face of the planet that is! You go heal you! You bulletproof you so that you never have to date another one of these Jack wagons again. Go work on all of the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, put that guilt back on the abuser, make yourself bulletproof and work on The Inner Child, Inner Child Workbook by Katherine Taylor, so that your inner child is not looking out there going oh, this person reminds me of my abuser. I know if I can make this person love me. I’ll prove my family wrong. Half of the doodoo sandwich half of a doodoo sandwich, total doodoo sandwich so you get to work on you so that you don’t ever have to try to work out that relationship. Again. It’s not your job. It’s not your job. You’re not going to make them better by you not growing You’re not, they’re just going to continue down their path of destruction because this is their karmic path they’ve chosen and they’re not changing. And even though they’ve gotten tons of opportunity to they’re not going to. Okay, so you go work on you and and when the guilt pops up, you write a letter, you tell it to pound sand you figure out where it came from. You put it back on whoever made you feel guilty for outdoing them. You have a right! This is not a competition, but abusive parents make it a competition. They are in competition with their own children. They’re in competition with the grandchildren, they’re in competition with the dogs. They’re in competition with a cat. They’re in competition with the neighbor, they’re in competition with everybody because to them, it’s a competition they have to win. And they often don’t, it drives then crazy, you know, and so then they’ll make the person wrong for having outdone them. Don’t fall for that. Don’t fall for that. Alright, let’s get to the next question. We’re doing on time. Okay.

Um, what is the difference between tooth for tooth and being justified in being angry? Okay, so differences is revenge vs I’m pissed.

Kris Godinez  41:11

So, an eye for an eye tooth for tooth that is tallionic thinking, that is tit for tat. I’m gonna hurt you. The way you hurt me. I’m gonna make you feel the way I felt. Well, you can’t because they don’t feel let me just be clear in this. They do not feel the same way we do. They do not process emotions the same way we do. They do not have emotions the same way we do. They don’t. They can fake it. You know, psychopaths can fake emotions, but they don’t really process or feel the way we do. So, revenge is a fool’s game. Because this feeds the narcissists need for supply. Oh, good, good, good. I’ve got somebody arguing with me. They’re paying attention to me. Oh, this is great! Take that. What are they gonna? What are they gonna answer back? When are they gonna answer back when I think oh, look the answer back. Oh, they love it. Again, if you’ve ever watched What We Do In The Shadows, one of the episodes was Colin Robinson getting a troll online. Turned out to be a real troll. And they were going back and forth back and forth. And it was feeding the narcissistic ego, was feeding the ego was feeding the narcissistic supply basically. So, you don’t ever want to get into a tit for tat with a narcissist or an abuser. The best way to quote unquote, hurt them. It’s not really hurting them. But the best way to take the wind out of their sails, give them nothing. Like nothing. no anger, no sadness. No hurt. No happy No, I miss you know nothing. No Contact gray rock. Uh huh. Uh huh. Look at the time. Whatever, you give them nothing. That drives them crazy more than anything else, not responding to their bait not responding to their hook. I had a troll on Instagram. And they thought for sure I was going to respond and I just went Delete. Nope, you are not worth my time of day. Sorry, I know what you are. So that drives them crazy. That that will do more damage than if you sit there and get into this tit for tat. I’m going to get you I’m going to revenge. You know, revenge just picking up two hot coals to throw them at somebody else. You’re the only person getting burned. The best way to get revenge is to live your best life! Go do you! Go be happy. Go explore what you want to do, your wants your needs, your desires, put you on the front burner, fill up your pot so you can pour into other people’s cups and help them that is the best revenge because the more people that are educated on this stuff, the more people that understand they’re not alone, which is again, Wil Wheaton love him he’s been posting a lot of stuff on what he’s been thinking and feeling and all of the anxiety and all of this and I’m like thank God because that lets people know they’re not alone. And he’s famous so it’s like it helps when famous people go yes this happened to me. This is how I feel. This is what I’m going through and then other people go oh, thank God I thought I was the only one you know so yeah, it’s tit for tat does nothing but I’ll tell you what does do something is educating the crap out of everybody and just ignoring them and living your best life. That’s the best revenge that really is. The best revenge is no revenge. The best revenge is you living your life. Well, so there that is okay. Um, hope that explained it. If it doesn’t, PM me.

Um, okay. I moved to another country many years ago, a week before Christmas. My narcissistic mother told everyone she was upset. I was never invited for Christmas as she didn’t want me there. Why would she? Well, so here’s the thing, narcissist. The holidays are about them. Even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It’s not about them. It’s about the narcissist. Like seriously, Christmas should be about, you know, Christianity, Christmas Jesus, the whole thing, whatever, you know, or Solstice, whatever, you know, I mean, so that that whole season should be about that thing, right? But no, it’s about the narcissist. So how can the narcissist get the most attention possible? By playing the victim. I’m upset, you know, crazy, crazy. And don’t expect them to ever behave normally around any of these holidays. So, like, Okay, last night, I went to a beautiful, beautiful wedding. Thank God, there were no disordered people there. The wedding went off without a hitch. How many weddings have you participated in or seen or heard about where inevitably one disordered person tried to make it about them?

Kris Godinez  46:03

You know, I mean, it happens all the time. narcissists always make every single special day special event, anniversary, birthday, wedding, funeral, holidays about them, so they will manufacture diseases, illnesses, I’m upset, you know, some problem and it’s to gain attention. It’s to gain attention. It’s attention seeking is basically what it is. live your best life. Don’t take it personally. Just go live your best life. Okay.

When I was very young, my narcissistic mother bought her children gifts for Christmas, but never me that the golden child would go on and on and on about how great their gifts were. Why did she do this? Okay, so Narcissus stepmothers or narcissist, mothers or, you know, basically any of these people. Um, again, if it’s their children, they’ll sometimes it depends on the narcissist and it depends on what the reasoning is. So, when narcissists slight a child is because they’re favoring their own. And that’s crazy. You know, it’s like, if you marry somebody, and they have a kid, that kind of now becomes your kid, you know, I mean, it’s like not that you’re gonna be taking over the part of the parent but, but it’s like you treat them equally, you don’t favor your children over the stepchild. You know, it’s like everybody is treated equally kind of thing, because you don’t want to set up that weirdness. But remember, narcissists like to point out that somebody has to be less than so they love the drama, triangle, hero, victim, villain, hero, villain victim. So, you know, you’re the, you’re the bad guy for being there, you know, and so they’re gonna make sure that their kids are taken care of, and they’re the hero for doing them well, and stuff like that. So, it’s a Drama Triangle, it’s just a way to make you feel less than and they do that on purpose. I have seen tons of narcissistic step parents, and parents treat children differently. So, it’s not even step kids is not even their kids versus a step kid in, it could be all of their children, and they will set up one is the golden child. One is the ignored middle child, one is the scapegoat. Or if it’s a only child situation, that poor kid has to play all the roles. So, the narcissist constantly has to have a Drama Triangle, and they’ll manufacture it whatever way they can. That’s why they do the things that they do. And that’s why they are so reprehensible because it’s usually harming a child.

Alright, how do I support my partner as he gets guilt tripped by his mother for the job market being short contracts, like it is his fault. Okay, so basically, I would strongly suggest working on the self-esteem workbook. So, in our country, it’s crazy. We associate what we do with who we are, well, I’m a therapist, well, no, I’m a human being first and foremost, I happen to do therapy. But that’s not the sum total of who I am. So, when we lose a job, or we don’t have a job, and the job market sucks, hindquarters, which is what is doing right now, our sense of self starts getting eroded. And especially if we have a family member that’s toxic constantly going “Why don’t you have a job and why aren’t you doing this? And why aren’t you doing that?” Well, look, guys, I’ve got plenty of clients that have been looking for a job looking for a job looking for a job looking for a job, like diligently and they’re unable to secure one and I don’t know why because, you know, the resume looks good, and they’ve been going on interviews and you know, it’s just a weird market right now. So, the best thing to do is take whatever the toxic person is saying with a grain of salt and work on self-esteem. Do the mirror work. Hi, good to see you have a great day I give you permission to love yourself whether you’re employed or not, you’ll get a job. It’ll be okay. And then walk out that kind of thing. Um, so yeah, self-esteem, self-esteem self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, that would be the best thing to do. Um,

Kris Godinez  50:22

what happens to only children of narcissists? Do they get scapegoated as well? Yes, absolutely, they do. So, what ends up happening is the only child will end up playing every single role, every single role. So, at one point, there’ll be the golden child, and then the next week, they can’t do anything, right. They’ll be ignored. You know, it just depends on what is suiting the narcissistic parent or parents. So, you know, if it suits the parent to ignore them, go ignore them, if it suits the parent to use them as a scapegoat and tell them they can’t do anything, right, they’ll do that. If it suits the parent to be like, Oh, my child is the best child ever. Blah, blah, you know, showing off they’ll do that. And that leaves the poor kid, I almost think it’s harder on only children. Because if you’ve got siblings, it’s, it’s kind of helpful, especially if there’s another sibling that’s sane, that you can kind of call up and be like. No, Mom and Dad just did this, is that normal and they can be like, Oh, hell no, you know, and kind of validate you, right? So, you know, or shared memories, shared experiences. Now if that sibling is toxic and starts Oh, no, that never happened. Well, then Houston, stay the heck away from them. But if you’ve got a sibling that’s sane and is able to be like, yeah, that did happen. Yeah, I do remember this. Yeah. Dad went off on you know, whatever. You know that that kind of helps you with your trusting your gut, because now you’ve got a witness. Can I get a witness? You know, and you’re able to go yeah, that did happen. I’m not crazy. They’re so they’re gaslighting me. But no, this really did happen. Okay, good. You know, so we’re the only child I think they’ve got it worse because they don’t have a sibling that they can double check with. They don’t have anybody else to turn to they only got the narcissistic parents or the abusive parents. They have to play all the roles and there’s always a Drama Triangle going on. So, the rules are always going to be changing. Always. Always. Always. So yeah, it is really hard on on the single child on the only children. Alright kids, I’m losing my voice. If you want to get a hold of me, PM me on We Need to Talk with Kris Godinez. Or on the LPC page. So, I think that is it! Drink plenty of water! Have so much fun tonight. Be good yourselves be good to each other and I’ll talk to you later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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