We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez

11-15-2022 Holier Than Thou
In This Episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses the communal Narcissist.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hi, guys. Okay, so today’s current events, Colorado just legalized magic mushrooms. So basically, I’m going to say it wrong Silla. Psilocybin I think is the, is the component in the magic mushroom. And they’re going to open clinics where people can do micro-dosing. So, I think this is fantastic. So, I wanted to pull up a thing on Psychology Today. And it’s psychedelic-assisted therapy. Psychedelic-assisted therapy refers to this therapeutic, therapeutic process that involves the ingestion of a psychedelic drug. So magic mushrooms, obviously, LSD, Ayahuasca, those types of things have been shown in the studies I have seen Now granted, there would need to be large-scale studies, that they do help with PTSD, chronic anxiety, severe depression, etc, etc, etc.

The there is a mind-altering effect. In micro dosing, it has been shown effective in chronic PTSD, chronic alcohol and substance abuse, alcohol dependence, nicotine dependence, anxiety related to terminal illness and chronic PTSD. So, I thought that was really interesting. Researchers are conducting highly regulated studies using careful screening, therapeutic preparation, controlled settings, and with trained monitors. And that’s the way it needs to be I don’t recommend everybody run up to Colorado and just do it on your own. If you’re going to do it, make sure that you’ve got, you know, a psychiatrist, watching, monitoring, etc.

There it is, seems to be promising in the arena of treatment of substance abuse, which I thought was very interesting. Can they change the personality? One study found that volunteers who were given I’m going to say wrong psilocybin, that’s the magic mushroom component thing, experience lasting change in openness to awareness. They continue to be more open beyond a year afterwards. Another study has also found that hallucinogen users reported short-term increases in openness, Openness to Experience two weeks after an experimental microdose of LSD. So, it’s really interesting; if you want to learn more about micro-dosing, just look up micro dosing on psychology today. There’s a whole article, several articles on that.

Again, though, the potential harms is it could cause psychosis depending on if there is schizophrenia in your family history of psychosis, etc, etc, etc. All of them have that risk so, but it lists all the different hallucinogenics that they’re experimenting with and that they’re trying and doing micro-dosing and seeing if it works. So, I just thought it was really interesting that Colorado finally legalized it and I do think that we should start investigating different psychotropic drugs that can help with these mental health issues.

So for example, ketamine has been shown to help with depression. So, it’s an off-label use ketamine is a horse tranquilizer, but they’ve shown that it helps with PTSD. They’ve shown that it helps with severe depression. So, I think it’s really exciting and very interesting that they’re finally legalizing it, that they’re getting the clinics together, that they’re going to be monitored, that, you know, all of that sort of stuff.

So anyway, it’s just it’s interesting to me because I have found through my lo these many years, I’ve been doing this, the pharmaceutical companies. I don’t trust them, you know that, and the psych meds that we have are limited success, and especially if you’re dealing with, you know, something like bipolar or schizophrenia or things like that, the meds that people are on generally tend to only be effective three to five years, and then they lose their effectiveness. And then you have to start all over again. Which is why when I was in the homeless shelter working with the homeless, so many of them who had, you know, bipolar or schizophrenia or whatever, were so frustrated, they would stop taking their meds because they would stop working. And then they’d have to start all over again. And every three to five years, they would have to find a different medication to keep them from hearing the voices or keep them from, you know, getting the mood swings, or whatever.

So, I think this is really exciting. I think this is really actually a good thing. I would like to see more states invest in research. I’d like to see more research, honest to God; I’d like to see more research in this whole micro-dosing thing. It’s very fascinating to me because if this can help people, I am all for it, as long as it’s monitored. Now, you’re not going to run out; go buy some magic mushrooms or LSD or whatever, and you know, start doing drugs. No, that’s called self-medicating. That’s being your own apothecary, you don’t want to do that. So, apothecary, for some reason that made me think of ghosts because Robin was trying to say the word apothecary, and he couldn’t say it anyway. Sorry, sidenote, squirrel. Anyway, um, so no, you want to do it with a clinic, that is, you know, monitored, etc, etc, etc. I’ve had several clients that had resistant depression, like no matter what they did, nothing seemed to help. And then when they did alternative therapies, like, what is that one?

Magnetic, TM, TMC, I think it’s called where they do magnetic pulses through the brain that seem to bring relief. Also, ketamine seems to bring relief. So yeah, I mean, don’t be afraid to be your own best advocate when it comes to psychcotropical pharmaceuticals because, you know, do your, do your research and ask around. And if you’re if your psychiatrist is one of these old fuddy duddy in bed with the pharmaceutical company type of person, get a different psychiatrist, get one that is actually invested in getting you better. That’s, that’s my thing. So that’s my current event is that Colorado is taking the first step to doing that. I think it’s a great thing. I think it’s a good idea. I’d like to see more research; that would be good but, but it shows some really promising results in the small studies that have happened. So, I’d like to see larger-scale studies so that we can get a better, better grip on how it does, so yeah, so anyway, so there that is, okay, so today, that’s that.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I was dealing, oh, God bless my clients, dealing with several clients this week who have exes that pile on the negative emails and, and book size, texting, and things like that. I cannot stress enough the importance of not responding to that stuff. Guys, we’re coming. We’re in the middle of Hoover season, we’re in the middle of highly emotional, you know, holiday season. Next week’s show is going to be on holidays, spelled daze. So don’t respond when your ex is sending you this stuff do not respond; you want to respond to that little, tiny bit that is about the kid. So, Susanna Katana at Susannah katana.com, she is great at showing you how to how to not personalize it, how to just get that little, tiny, one line that is about the child and ignoring the rest. Getting a sense of humor about the craziness is what you’re going to have to do. Eventually, you’re just going to have to get to the point where just like, I am counting on them to be insane. They’re going to be, oh look, they’re insane, fabulous. And then just figuring out what you need to respond to do not respond. If it has anything else to do with anything else. If it’s not directly about your child directly about the divorce, you owe them zip, zero, zilch and here’s the other good habit to start getting into don’t respond immediately sit on it; you do not owe them an immediate response unless it’s an emergency. And a lot of times, they’ll lie and say it’s an emergency, but you don’t owe them an immediate response. So don’t give them an immediate response. Sit on it for a day. You know, you have 12 to 24 hours to think about it. And then you gave your response. So especially if it’s not an emergency so anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there just because it I don’t know if it was the full moon or what, but every single narcissistic jackwagon on the face of the planet came flying out at all my clients, and I’m just like ah, so yeah, don’t respond.

09:47

You’re under no obligation. Gentle with yourself. You don’t even have to really read it. I want you to start teaching yourself to skim it. Find what’s relevant to your either your divorce or your child and ignore the rest. That’s all you have to respond to. And I know the inner child is going, but and wanting to defend and everything, you don’t owe anybody an explanation if somebody comes at you claws bared, you don’t owe them an explanation. They’ve already decided that they hate you. So, you know nothing you can do. Let them go. Let them go.

Alright, now let’s dive into today’s topic. Okay. So, because we are coming up on the holidays, Thanksgiving in particular, wow, we’re going to be dealing with a lot of communal narcissists. So collective and communal Narcissists, so collective narcissists and communal Narcissists very similar. Collective narcissists have this incredible self-righteousness. Communal narcissists also have the incredible self-righteousness. But there’s this component of how do I explain this?

With the communal narcissists… so the collective Narcissists identifies with a group, so most often will think of them as identifying with, like, you know, a hate group or something like that. And so, they are right and righteous and everything else. But there’s not that community part. It’s communal as far as their collective over here, but it’s not communal as far as the world or, you know, the area or the community or whatever. Communal narcissists put on this; how do I explain this? Their mask is holier than thou. Their mask is righteous, but it’s Oh, it’s almost okay. How do I explain sorry, so much to talk about. Okay, let’s review first, and then we’ll get to communal narcissists. So, there’s grandiose narcissists, okay, they’re Me, me, me I, I, I, more, my genitals. That’s all they care about. Okay. They want the kudos are the best at everything, they need the best of everything, etc.

12:02

Then you’ve got the covert narcissist, which are the martyrs, you know, I do all of this for you. You never do anything for me? Why doesn’t anything ever go my way? Poor me, feel sorry for me that thing? Okay? The communal narcissists are kind of this weird combination of those two. But the mask that they put on is goody two shoes, like literally like, I can do no wrong. I’m this wonderful person; look at me being the pillar of the community. So, they will do all of this charity work and donate to all of these things. But they’re not really doing stuff. And wherever they go, they cause problems. Like, seriously, there’s always a blowup no matter where they go. And so, it’s not like they’re really sort of looking for. It’s not like they’re really moving the community forward. It’s not like they’re really helping the charity. It’s almost like they’re doing a how do I explain this? It’s almost like they’re doing like photo opportunities. You know, they’re saying that they’re doing all this great stuff, or they do some great stuff. But then as soon as they get behind closed doors like they’ll be, they’ll be the ones that are straight, you know, right up front, in church, you know, look at me, I’m in the choir, I’m volunteering, I’m doing this I’m doing that as soon as they get home, and the doors closed, they’re beating their kids beating their dog beating, their wife beating their husband beating their whatever. They literally putting down judging. That’s the that’s the mind blower is that these people, and it’s not just Christians, I want to be very clear about this. Communal narcissists are found in every single religion. And I’m mentioning this in regard to Thanksgiving because we’re going to be dealing with family, some of us, some of us are not. And I encourage you, if you’ve got a toxic family, don’t deal with them. And we’re going to talk about how to deal with them in just a minute.

14:11

So, they are self-righteous, holier than thou, I’m right, you’re wrong, the most judgy people you will ever see on the planet. But yet, they do this facade of goody two shoes. Look how much I do. Look at this. Look at, look, look, look. You see, it’s kind of like the grandiose communal narcissists are also often cult leaders. And that’s why I’m saying it’s not just Christians. It’s like I’ve seen them in the yoga community. I’ve seen them in different religions. It’s like that they’re the ones who insist that they know everything. Like literally everything about everything. And I’ll give a great example there was a yoga class, and this person would go to the yoga class. And every single time there was a celebration or an acknowledgment of any religion, this person would stand up and proselytize no matter what religion it was and then follow people out and try to get them to, you know, hang out with them. And this that the other thing. So that’s kind of an example of a communal cult, narcissist type of thing. It’s like, I know the way I know the light, I’m right, you’re wrong, I’ll show you, you know, kind of thing. And that’s just simply not how a normal person does it. The communal narcissists are also the ones who it well and the cult leaders; they entice people into their cult or entice people into their circle by making these promises that cannot be kept. So, they’ll say things like, you know, I’m going to solve world hunger, or I’m going to find the way to get rid of poverty or by demanding that all of you give me my money. Yeah, that’s, that’s what they do. It’s like they asked you to give up all your money, give it to them, that they’re going to solve poverty. How does that work? So, the communal narcissists are extremely black-and-white thinking. So, remember, splitting, so remember, every single narcissist is, whether it’s grandiose, covered communal, somatic, whatever, extremely split thinking, so good, bad, black, white, all nothing. And they have to be right. And it’s always a competition. Like, seriously, it is a competition. So, if, for example, you’re at the dinner table, and you get into a conversation with one of these people, and they’re misquoting the Bible, which is often the case, and you try to correct them, O. M. G., be prepared for World War three, like not even kidding you. They will completely go DEF CON one to be right and blow up a family meal, you know, to show that you’re wrong and storm out and cause a scene and this that now that they cray cray, they’re seriously, they have no ability to accept any differing opinion. So, say, for example, you walk into a family situation, and you’ve got distant cousin Edna, who decides that she’s going to start, you know, proselytizing or doing whatever she’s doing about her particular whatever it is, whether it’s Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Islam or Christianity or whatever. And then she turns to you and says, and what’s your belief? Oh, my God, Danger, Danger. Danger Will Robinson Danger Danger, do not enter that minefield. You know, I would say something like, I believe I will have seconds, and then get up and leave, you know, it’s like you don’t have to answer them. They’re looking for that fight. And they’re looking for that nastiness. They’re looking to be right, and they want to. They have to be right everybody else it has to be a one up it has to be a one up, so communal narcissists have got this righteousness thing about them. So, I wanted to pull up some articles. Okay, from Psychology Today, that I thought were really interesting. The communal narcissist, okay, this is on psychology today.

The communal narcissist another wolf wearing a sheep’s outfit. So, they in the first part of it, they’re talking about the expert X extrovert introvert, which is the grandiose and the and the covert. Okay, but the communal narcissist isn’t entirely something else. Surprisingly, this narcissist shares some of the characteristics of the other two.

18:46

They are all people who continuously seek to validate their self-perceived grandiosity, esteem, entitlement, and power. This type focuses on promoting him or herself through commitment to other’s communal goals and the supposed ability to listen and connect. But here’s the difference. These types of people, just honest to God, they tell everybody, so a lion does not need to announce that they’re a lion. Okay, everybody kind of knows it. All right. So, what a communal narcissist will do is they will corner somebody at a party like Thanksgiving and tell them all the good deeds they’ve done and how how selfless they are, and how good they are. And I’ll tell you something, guys if you’re really selfless, and you’re really good, you do it, and you keep it quiet.

That’s the way it is. Somebody who asked to announce all of their good deeds is obviously overcompensating. Does that make sense? So, in other words, if you’re walking into a Thanksgiving situation and this cousin or whoever corners you and starts going, and I’ve done this good deed and that good dead and look at it this….. and what have you done? You know, it’s a competition. It’s a, it’s a trap, you know it’s a trap, it really honest to God is a trap. And people who do good deeds don’t need to talk about them. It’s clear, it’s obvious, you know? So that is one of the signs of a communal narcissist, okay? They say what great listeners they are and how wonderful they are at connecting with people. But the truth of the matter is, they’re not good listeners. They’re not empathic, and this is something that I think actions speak louder than words. So, with every single personality disorder, the major thing that should alert you that there’s something wrong is the lack of empathy, the inability to read the room. Seriously, like, again, at Thanksgiving dinner. This is when you’ll see the grandiose narcissist or the covert narcissist, or the communal narcissist starts spouting because they want attention and they’re not reading the room. It’s not about them. It’s about Thanksgiving. It’s about being with family. If you have sane family, if you got crazy family, it’s about getting out of there as soon as you possibly can. I absolve you; you do not need to go to Thanksgiving. If you don’t want to swear to God and all this holy, you don’t need to do your own thing. Do your own thing seriously; if they’re crazy, save yourself the trauma. Seriously, save yourself the drama and really have a serious chat with that inner child. It’s like, okay, what are the actions and behaviors of my family? Do they do this? Do they treat total strangers wonderfully, which is what communal narcissists do. But then come home and are awful to their family. Avoid, avoid, avoid; you don’t need to be around them, and you’re never going to get them to see that what they’re doing is wrong. Ever, not on this or any other planet. So, the communal narcissists do this whole weird treating strangers wonderfully treating their own family horribly, but then making sure to tell everybody how they suffer to take care of their family. So, they’re this weird combination of grandiose and covert. So, they play the victim beautifully. And then they’re grandiose about it, telling me how great I am because look at all the good things I’m doing. Right? These are also cult leaders. These are the ones who are always talking about how they have the only answer.

22:29

Oh, these people make me want to puke. Okay, so hang on, okay. They lack empathy. That should be your first clue. The trap, they trap you in a corner and whisper excitedly about how thoughtful they’ve been to their grieving next-door neighbor. That’s me. I’m a born listener… what? They believe these themselves better than the rest of humanity. Now that should be your clue again. So, actions and words have to match. If a person’s actions and the person’s words do not match, you are dealing with a liar. Liar. Okay, the actions and the words have got to match. So, if they’re, you know, Oh, I’m so great. I’m such a great listener, but they’re not reading the room. They’re not catching on your body clues. Uh, dear Lord, I need to get away from you. Because you cuckoo. You know what I’m saying? The actions and words are not matching. And they’ll do that they’ll corner somebody at a Thanksgiving they’ll corner somebody at a party.

Okay, hold on. I just I want to get through these because these are all really good articles. Does this sound familiar? Oh, they talk about God. They talk about being on a mission from God. They’re on a mission. I’m committed to this; cause I’m committed to it. And they’re, they’re sanctimonious, and they’re self-righteous about it, and they’re really not doing anything you may have run into them at the PTA or at a charity event booster club or fundraiser. You may have been surprised when one showed his or her true colors by becoming hugely territorial and much more concerned with personal aggrandizement and appreciation than the communal goal you thought you were all working towards. And then there’s some terribly politicized brouhaha, hurt feelings, and bingo trauma and drama. Yes, that’s what these people do. So, in the communal narcissism inventory in this article, and this is the communal narcissist, another wolf wearing a sheep’s outfit by Peg Streep.

They will answer yes to every single one of these questions. I am the most helpful person I know. I am going to bring peace and justice to the world. I am the best friend someone can have. I will be well known for the good deeds I have done. I am going to be the best parent, or I

I am the best parent I am the most caring person, and do you see this sounds like your typical narcissist. In the future, I will be well known for solving the world’s problems I greatly enrich lives; I will bring freedom to the people it is an I am an amazing listener. I will be able to solve world poverty so there’s a lot of magic thinking going on there. I have a positive influence on others. I am generally the most understanding person I’ll make the world a much more beautiful place. I am extraordinarily trustworthy. I will be famous for increasing people’s well-being, so again, the concern is look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. ego, ego.

25:45

Okay, so anyway, that was a really good article. The other one I wanted to hit on. How are we doing on time? Good. We’re doing good. All right. Let’s see this one. Okay. Do communal narcissists actually care about their community? No, no, they don’t. They absolutely don’t. This is on choosing therapy. What is communal narcissism? They don’t actually care about their community. They are more concerned about their image and the kudos that they get from the community about what they’re supposedly doing. What are the signs of a communal narcissist extreme dedication to specific charities or causes their devotion may cause them to neglect other important tasks or step on the toes of others. Now my dad went to church; I kid you not six times a week, seriously, four to six times a week. That was his big thing. I don’t know if it was because he was free to go to hell. I have some theories on that. But he would he would go to church four to six times a week and tell everybody how self-sacrificing he was. And you know, this than the other thing. And meanwhile, he was doing the horrible things that he was doing to us.

Okay, often talking about having a mission or a calling. So, they’re on a mission from God; literally, it’s like the Blues Brothers. But weirdly, it’s like weirdly, it’s like weirdly and doing it over and over and over again, you know, like, again, like a self-aggrandizement type of thing, stirring excess drama or conflict at the charitable or work-related events rather than focusing on achieving communal goal. They may be more focused on hierarchies or self-interested politics. That’s interesting. Coming across as a martyr, okay, that’s where the covert comes in. They will mock or degrade people who do not also share the same martyr-like interests. They lash out at people that don’t believe the way they do, so the examples they were giving, like if they’re vegan, and somebody ate meat that the vegan would, if they were a narcissist would lash out at them or whatever, instead of just going into your karma, you know, or they may hate other people that donate to the charity because they’re getting attention crazy, believing they’re the best at everything, only seeming to show concern for societal needs in public.

So, at work in the workplace, a communal narcissist may try to do your tasks because they assume that they are being helpful; they may believe that the company should would simply deteriorate without them. That is the sign of a communal narcissist. So, they make themselves or they think of themselves as indispensable to the charitable organization, the work the company, etc. They truly believe that the workforce will fall apart without them, they will often look down on colleagues who take time off, like rightfully so, or seem to be less than interested than them in their job.

Okay, volunteering for a cause and volunteering, they may try to overstep their boundaries and take on responsibilities without adequate training. They may stir drama during charity events or hyper focus on insignificant details rather than prioritizing the actual volunteering mission. They will often pay attention to how much time or money other people spend devoted to the course to the cause and then judge them because, remember, it’s competition.

In sports while playing a sport. They will be trying to teach others how to improve their skill instead of focusing on developing their own. They present as overly eager to help, presumably for the sake of the team will not responding well at all to direction or advice themselves. In support groups, a support group like a new mom’s group, a communal narcissist will be dishing out unsolicited advice. So instead of asking, hey, do you want my opinion? Or hey, do you want some help with that? They’ll just tell people what to do.

Okay, so five ways to deal with a communal narcissist. Do not confront them. This is going to be huge at the Thanksgiving table. Do not confront them. Oh, thank you, Andrea, do not confront them; you would have a better conversation with my backdrop here than you would with any narcissist, honestly. So, when a communal narcissist is behaving badly, avoid, avoid gray rock avoid, and it doesn’t do any good because they’re, first of all, they’re incapable of reading the room number one of having empathy number two and have been able to want to change they don’t they don’t think they’ve ever done a wrong thing in their life. And they will hide behind whatever religion or whatever cause or whatever to justify whatever heinous thing they just did. Always. So, they’re never wrong, guys. So, and again, this is where you this is your task, not theirs. This is your task to help your inner child understand yes, it’s not fair. Yes, they are being Jack wagons; no, there is nothing we can do about it; we need to leave and then leave. So, they are going to do whatever stupid narcissistic dance that they’re going to do. And they’re going to say whatever heinous thing they’re going to say. And your inner child has got to be okay, you’ve got to comfort them and say, hey, it’s not going to do any good to explain ourselves to them. So, this would be along the lines of you’re sitting at the dinner table, and starts asking you about your personal either political views or religious views. At that point, you go, my beliefs, oh, I believe I will have a second piece of pie and then get up and leave. Seriously, humor is always the best way to deal with it because they don’t know what to do with it. And then make sure you don’t sit next to her. So, you know, or leave or do whatever you need to. But don’t engage, do not engage. That’s what they are looking for. They’re trying to hook you so that now they can be butthurt and start a fight. Because God forbid any narcissist couldn’t handle peace and quiet, they can’t. So, peace and quiet and calm happiness. Oh, God, no, that pisses them off worse than anything else.

32:13

So, if you’re having a great happy meal, you know, just thinking about this, what my dad would do, when we were having a family dinner, everything would be fine. And then, out of the blue, he would get pissed off at something I did and turn around just backhand me. So will they ruin the happy dinner, you know, or he would get upset at somebody’s politics, or he would get upset at somebody’s religion, or he would get upset. I don’t know the price of tea in China. I mean, he would come up with reasons to ruin family meals. And this is what they do, guys; this is communal, grandiose, covert. This is what they do because they can’t stand peace and quiet and certainly can’t stand happiness. And they have to be the center of attention.

So Okay, quickly because I’ve gone way over time, but there are so many good things, okay, stay true to your own values. Don’t let them bully you. They will try to bully you. They will try to get you to agree with them or whatever. And you just hold your boundaries, hold your boundaries, but disengage and get away from that would be my thing. Limit triggering interactions. There you go. Implement boundaries. There you go. Practice ongoing self-care. Yeah. And just know that they are never going to change. They simply do not.

Okay, the holier than thou hypocrite, they’re incredibly hypocritical. So, you know, my dad would be sitting there, you know, donating all this money and choirs and churches and everything else. And meanwhile, he was sexually abusing all of us at home, and he was hitting me, and he would kick the dog, and he was just a not nice guy. That’s putting it mildly. So, they’re hypocrites. They’re hypocrites, and they claim a desirable quality or character and they blame others for their own faults.

33:59

So that is a typical narcissist. That’s not just a communal narcissist, but that’s a typical narcissist. This one is called Do you Know a Hypocrite, and this is by Kristin Batcho, PhD also on psychology today. This next one? Very self-righteous. They’re very vainglorious. They’re very self-deceiving. They have absolutely no clue how their actions affect somebody else. Gratuitously feeling superior, being arrogant, and elitist self-aggrandizing. Yeah, that’s basically what they do. It’s kind of like because I have this belief or because I am this righteous person who does charity work, I am this fabulous that they really believe their own press. They really truly believe their own press. Okay, um, narcissism and self-righteousness. This is just another one that talks about how incredibly hypocritical they are and that they are self-righteous, and they look down at other people. So, in their world, and this was what article was this Narcissism and Self-Righteousness on Psychology Today by Roberta Satow, PhD.

And basically, it’s like, no matter what the other people in the charity are doing, it’s not good enough. Not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, not good enough, looking down at the other charity volunteers or the other people in the community, or, you know, this, this real attitude of superiority, you know, and they become dangerous when they play on somebody who’s lost. So, people who get involved in cults are looking for something. They’re looking for community, they’re looking they are, they’re looking for, you know, like-minded people. And so cults like the Jim Jones called back in the 70s. I think it was, he played on the whole, you know, I have the answers, we’ll create this community, it’ll be utopia, the whole thing, then what did he do? He took them down, and he poisoned them all, so they play very much on that wanting to belong, so, but the words of the actions, there was something always off about him, always. I mean, he would say this great stuff. But then his behavior didn’t quite match. And then of course, the questions started coming in. And then he started getting investigated, and that’s when he poisoned his cult followers and killed them. So, they and they hide behind a religion of some sort, his happened to be a Christian religion. So, you know, but there are other cult places that are not Christian. So, you got to be very, very careful of communal Narcissus of cult-type narcissists. Nobody’s got all the answers, guys; nobody. If we did, would we really be here?

Seriously, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s scary to me how evil, evil these cult leaders are. Because, again, people have no more meaning to them than these reading glasses. They’re an object to be used. And usually, what they do is they demand that you give them all your time, all your money, all your you know, worldly possessions, etc. And they’ll take care of, you know, you got to take care of yourself. You got to take care of you, nobody else is going to do it for you. And if they tell you they’re going to do it for you, and they’re asking for all of that, you’re probably dealing with a communal narcissist.

So okay, all right. So just to recap, the communal narcissist is all about community. The collective narcissist is about belonging to a superior group, okay? The communal narcissist is very self-righteous, collected narcissists very self-righteous, but the communal narcissist will do all have these good deeds, but you’ll notice it doesn’t ever really go anywhere. It doesn’t really help, and they’re always there for the photo op. And they’re always looking down their nose at other people, and they’re always harming other people behind closed doors. They’re always creating drama, no matter what charitable organization they’re in. So um, so that’s kind of how you know what you’re dealing with who you’re dealing with, all of that sort of stuff. If you run into one of these types at the, at the Thanksgiving dinner, first of all, you’re under no obligation to go if your family’s toxic, I absolutely approve of you doing something else. Absolutely. If you end up having to go and the conversation starts getting weird and your guts yelling at you, make an excuse. Oh, I have to go to the bathroom. Oh, got to go talk to Aunt Bertha. Oh, got it. You know what, I got to let the dog out, you know, and leave, you know. So that is that. So, the communal narcissists are kind of like a combination, but they use religion. They use community things to further their own ego, they’re self-righteous, there’s no room for any opposing ideas. It’s their way or the highway. And that is not somebody you want to hang around. Okay, now I will dive into questions. I’m sorry, I went way long.

39:20

Okay, let me make this bigger so I can see it. Oh, there we go. I am bipolar one, and have been stable on lithium for 20 years can the bipolar have burned out? Or could it have been onset by SSRI and alcohol and stress and therefore not the right diagnosis? I strongly suggest you go talk to a psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I am not that well versed in psychotropical meds. And it could have been a wrong diagnosis. So, here’s the deal if you’re if you got diagnosed and you were using and this is what bothers me about some psychiatrists, if you were using alcohol that will influence whatever observations are being done. So that’s why I tell people it’s like, well, if you got a diagnosis or didn’t get a diagnosis, and you were on a substance, you need to come clean, literally, with your psychiatrist and tell them, hey, the during this time period, when I was being evaluated for, you know, mood disorder, or whatever I was actually using, then they’re going to need to do another evaluation because you can’t get a true read if somebody is in an altered state, one way or the other. So, it could have been a misdiagnosis. So, talk to your psychiatrist. Absolutely. Lithium is hard on the liver. So, I would really be you getting, make sure you’re getting your liver checked regularly. And talk to your psychiatrist, talk to your psychiatrist and ask them, you know, because they would, they would probably better know, and again, if you don’t like your psychiatrist get a different one. Don’t feel bad about firing one, if you don’t like them, you need to have one you’ve got a good rapport with and that you trust. Because this is your life. This is your life. And you have the right to ask as many questions as you need to, especially about mood stabilizers. Absolutely. So go talk to them. If you were using alcohol when you were being evaluated, it’s possible that they you got a misdiagnosis. So go talk to your psychiatrist or find one that you like and talk to them and make sure you’re getting your liver checked to make sure your liver is okay. Okay, hope that answered the question.

What to do when a communal narcissist brags to me about how wonderful and giving they are? Oh, God, I can’t avoid them at family events. But I also don’t want to give them the supply in the form of praise. Well, you could just gray rock just be incredibly disinterested. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh.

Uh huh. I got to go to the bathroom. Look, guys, they don’t have empathy. They can’t read the room; they’re looking for supply. It is not your job. Let me say that again. It is not your job to make them happy. Because you can’t, because they don’t feel happiness, to give them supply to, you know, help them with their low self-esteem or whatever else. So, you are under no obligation. If they start cornering you and talking to you, you got to walk away. You got to walk away or just be incredibly disinterested. Uh huh. Uh huh. Oh, yeah, I got to go. I got to; I hear my mom calling me, you know, or whatever. You know. We’re afraid to do that, because we’re afraid of their reactions. And we’re afraid that we’re going to hurt them. The only thing that will get hurt on them is their ego.

42:57

Clearly, the only thing that will get hurt on them is their ego. They don’t have empathy. They don’t care. It’s all about me, me, me I, I, I, more my genitals. That’s all they care about. And that’s why they corner you at one of those things and then talk your ear off. So don’t be afraid of hurting them. The only thing that’s going to get hurt on them is their ego. Now, will they do the whole? You’re not paying attention to me? You don’t care? Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I don’t because you tell me the same thing every damn time. Is that callous? Yeah. But also, it’s like, you don’t have to put up with them. You don’t. It’s not your job. It’s not your job. You know, it’s like, yeah, Aunt Bertha. You’ve told me this 100,000 million times. What else is going on in your life?

You know, I have no tolerance for them anymore. It’s like the older I get, the less tolerance I have. I do. And if somebody is going to corner me and try to monopolize my time, and do the stereotypical narcissistic I, I, I, me, me, more, more, more, my genitals. I will cut them off. Oh, gee, I got to go help in the kitchen. Sorry, got to go. And then I make sure to avoid them. And you’re under no obligation to sit there and listen to them. Who told you you had to sit there and listen to them? I mean, I realize you’re going to see them at the family dinner, but you don’t have to sit there and listen to them. You can cut them off and go somewhere else. You can help out in the kitchen. You can go help Grandma, you can go see a different aunt, you can, you know, whatever. So yeah, you don’t have to stick around and listen; you have the right to say no and mean it. This is a boundary thing. So, I suspect what’s stopping you from doing that is fear. And it’s the fear of how they’re going to react. No, they’re not going to like it. Yeah, they’re going to pitch a fit. Oh, well, not your problem. Not your job, not your problem. It’s not your job. The benefits suck and there’s no vacation. You might as well resign. So yeah, don’t do it. It’s not a good idea.

Okay, how many types of narcissists are there? Well, I’ve heard anywhere between four and seven. So um, the typical narcissist that we, I see are the grandiose ones I, I, I, me, me, me more my genitals, the covert ones, these are the ones that play the victims, you know, poor me, you never write you never call, why don’t you pay enough attention to me, I do all of this for you, and you don’t do anything for me. You notice the me’s in there, and the I’s and the me’s. They play the victim all the time; everything’s wrong, everything’s a problem, and they’re always wanting you to fix it. That’s what covert narcissists. Do. So even though they’re in the perfect situation and the perfect safe living thing, they will find something to complain about. I’m convinced that if the world were perfect, every single covert nurse would immediately keel over because they would have nothing to complain about. Then you’ve got the somatic narcissists. So, the somatic narcissist is very much about the body. So those are the ones where the hair has to be perfect. The face has to be perfect, no wrinkles, no fat, you know, rippling muscles, the whole thing, and if anything is off, they come unglued. Which that’s too much work.

But they do, and I have seen when I when I worked in Hollywood, I’ve seen plenty of the somatic narcissists, where if one little thing was off, they came unglued. As if it was the end of the world, and I’m just sitting there looking at them, going, oh my god, there are so much bigger things to worry about. Oh, yeah, you know, so um, and then you’ve got the dark triad, which is the psychopath narcissism. Machiavellianism, so that’s the malignant narcissists. So, are there varying degrees? Yeah. Are there are there different types? Yeah. Can they be all of them? Yeah. Do they switch back and forth between whatever works? You betcha. So, if one is not getting them what they need, they’ll slide into the victim thing. So, if grandiose isn’t doing it, they’ll slide into the victim thing. If a victim thing isn’t doing it, they’ll do the communal thing, you know, the communal narcissist, so yeah, there’s they do different things based on what will get their ego fed. So yeah, so there’s, there’s a whole bunch of them. Um, okay, let’s go over here.

Um, is it common? For a narcissist to plead poverty, though they do have money. Yes. To try to get things for free. Oh, my God. You have no idea. Or maybe you do? Yes. It is common? Yes. Absofreakinglutely! My dad would do that. My dad….. He was an attorney. People. He was not hurting for cash. But he would tell everybody and their dog how broke he was. I don’t have any money. My wife spent all the money. We don’t have any money.

48:04

When he died. I kid you not. We had to go through every single book and shake it out because he had money stuffed in every single. Crazy. He was crazy. Crazy. He was crazy. I mean, he was just he had plenty of money. You had plenty of money. He was not hurting for money. But yeah, he told anyone who would listen how broke he was, how we didn’t have…. to get sympathy. So, he would flip between the grandiose and the and the covert. He was also borderline, I’m convinced. So, it’s like, the more I’ve learned about this, the more I’m like, wow, he was really jacked up. So um, yeah, they absolutely will. They look like I’ve got another family member who does the same thing. Completely set plenty of money, not a problem well taken care of. And yet, oh my god, we would go out to dinner with this person who shall remain nameless until they pass, and then I will write another book. And we’d have this lovely meal. The server would be a lovely server, and I used to work as a server, so I always tip really well because I want to make sure they have money. So, you know, but she would leave literally five cents or $1, and for you know, a large amount meal for three or four people, and I’m just looking at her going. What is wrong with you? Well, there’s a lot, but yes. And again, this woman was not hurting for money is not hurting for money. She’s got plenty of money, and yet, she would tell everybody how broke she would come on glued, and my dad would do the same thing. Go to buy something and the price, you know, registered come up with well, when I was a kid, this cost you know, who knows? $1 or $5 or whatever. It’s like, dad, that was 50-plus years ago, hello.

You know, I mean, they are just it’s like they get stuck in the past, they really truly do. And they can’t realize that inflation or things cost more or whatever, and they will tell everybody how broke they are and how ridiculous the prices are. And how dare you make me pay this much and I’m not leaving a tip, which I’m just like, no, leave a tip. Thank you. They did a great job Shut up. So yeah, yes, they do. In answer to your question. Yes, they do, do that. Absolutely. 110%. My late narc mother claimed she had no money and expected her children to pay for her. Yes, yes.

Oh my God, if I could high-five you I would high-five you! Right there with you. Yep, that’s exactly what they do. That is exactly what they do. Yeah. You betcha. You betcha. Okay.

Do narc. Do narcs need a following to make themselves feel better? Yes, absolutely. It’s called a harem. So, they look for harems. So, they either look for sexual heroes, they’re looking to gather, you know, men or women to them, whatever. Or they look for followers, they need groupies, or whatever. And so, they look for that. They actively seek that out. That’s what communal narcissists do. That’s why they, you know, that’s why that one weird person at the at the yoga studio would stand up and be like, oh, I have all the answers. And yeah, creepy, creepy, creepy. So yeah, they do they need a harem. So they either need a sexual harem or they need a group of people to follow them to validate their existence. So, look how powerful I am. Look how many people I have. That’s why it drives me crazy. When I see these people who are so invested, again, in social media, and they’re like justifying who they are based on how many likes they have, or based on how many followers they have, or based on whatever, it’s just kind of like, you realize this is not the real world, correct?

52:15

And no, they don’t they don’t realize this is not the real world. This is the real world to them, because this is their ego, feeding that narcissistic supply. Oh, look how many likes I have, look how many followers I have, look at this, look at that.

Whatever. Yes, they do. They absolutely need followers like nobody’s business. And that’s why they’re cult leaders. That’s why they do that. And they do need that to make themselves feel better. Absolutely.

And yes, they do use their their group as they’re target, and they will, in almost every single cult I’ve ever seen. No matter who’s running it male or female females can be called leaders to guys, so be very careful. Their behavior was always very weird sexually. So, for example, they would a lot of the cults like the Waco. Oh, Heaven’s Gate. Jim Jones, there was always some condition on the sexuality of the members. So, like in the Heaven’s Gate one, everyone was expected to castrate themselves and be celibate. In other cults, the cult leader would have the right to have sex with whoever, but he would tell people who they could and could not sleep with. So, there’s always some sort of weird power trip with the sexuality there. Male and female. So okay, I hope that answered the question. So yeah, they turn the group into their target, and they use the group they turn the group into their family dynamic, there will be a scapegoat, there will be a golden child, there will be, you know, somebody who is ignored, there will be you know, because they’re just playing out their own childhood. It’s really sick.

Why when we get out of narcissistic relationships, it’s really hard to acknowledge my accomplishments and feel accomplishments and feel proud. Okay, this is common guys. Because when we’re with the abuser, in the beginning, they do the whole love bombing thing. Oh, I love you. I love this about your love that about your perfect da, da, da. As the relationship goes on, they start nitpicking, and suddenly, all of those things that they loved about you have now become the thing they hate about you, and you’re not good enough and how dare you and just nasty, nasty, nasty, and so when we get out of that abusive relationship, that Negative Nelly, that that that voice over there has integrated itself into our internal critic. Yeah. And so, we’re always worried about what they will think. And what are they going to say and oh my gosh, I can’t acknowledge myself because you know somebody is going to put me down or somebody is going to tell me I’m bad, or somebody is, so we’ve integrated that automatic nastiness so here’s the way to combat that. Glenn Schiraldi The Self-Esteem Workbook, you’ve got to kick those automatic thoughts to the curb; they are lying to you. Those are not real thoughts. Those are your abusers’ thoughts. CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. Put all this stuff back on the abuser. You have a right to own your own accomplishments. Do the mirror work. Hi. Good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, it’s okay for you to acknowledge yourself. You’re doing some good stuff. Thank you for being you, and then walk out. And that’s just you telling that to you. That is not you shouting into the world. That’s what a narcissist does. Narcissists are the ones that are like, tell me I’m great. Tell me I’m great. Tell me I’m great. This is just you strengthening that inner voice, letting you know you’re doing a good job. That’s the one you need to listen to. Not the Negative Nelly. So, this is common. This is very, very common. Um, yeah, it is really hard to acknowledge our accomplishments and to feel proud because we’re afraid of that other shoe dropping. We are we’re afraid of that other shoe dropping. So yeah, that’s what we do. So, work on self-esteem, work on boundaries, and work on  CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. Every time you want to acknowledge yourself and you stop yourself, you’ve got to challenge that negative thought, is this negative thought real? No, it is not. What’s the rational thought the rational thought is I have the right to acknowledge myself. I have the right to tell myself. I’m doing good when I’m doing good. You know, so that’s how you’re going to work on that. Okay.

Question is yawning a narcissistic trait? I’ve been asked questions, and when I answer, they will yawn. It happens a lot. No, no. Yawning is actually very contagious. So, for example, when Scotty was still around, he would yawn, and John would start yawning. Because it’s, I don’t know, it’s a sympathetic response. It’s whatever. So, I don’t know if people are yawning. Maybe they’re tired. Maybe they’re maybe they’re bored. I don’t know. So, you can always ask them. It’s like, wow, I noticed you yawning. You’re asking me a question. And now you’re yawning. Does that mean something? You could, or you could just choose not to take it personally. So, you know, is it a narcissistic trait? No, it’s not. It’s a human response. And what they have shown, though, is that people who don’t yawn in response to a yawn tend to have psychopathic traits. I thought I think that’s kind of interesting. So anyway, there is that. Do we have any other questions? No, that’s it.

All right. My love’s you guys be good. I will answer whatever questions I did not get to on Wednesday. Have a great week, and I will talk to you later. Bye.

58:07

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

Related Episodes

10-30-2022 You Are Not the UN. Stop Peace Keeping.

In this episode of We Need To Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris discusses how “Peace Keeping” is not only a co-dependent response, it is, in fact, a trauma response! The full transcript of this episode can be read on our website.

10-23-2022 Over Sharing!

In this episode of We Need to Talk With Kris Godinez, Kris talks about why survivors of abuse overshare and why oversharing can be detrimental.