Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

01:02
OK, we got a dog. So we have Moana, like the Disney movie Moana. And she is a collie mix. She’s a rescue. She’s awesome. I love her. She is settling in, it’s been a week, and she’s finally kind of chilling out. I know it takes three, three, and three. So you know, three days and then three weeks, and then three months. So she’s moving in the right direction. We’ve got a trainer that’s going to come out on Wednesday. So we’re going to work with her to get her on a leash and learn how to walk. She’s terrified about going out on a leash. So we’re going to kind of work on that because I want her, eventually, to come with me when I do the meet and greets because I travel, and I don’t like leaving my dog alone. So well, not alone. But you know, with somebody, somebody who’s not me or John. So anyway, there is that.

Also, current events. Okay. So this week, I have decided to kill my Twitter account. So I am no longer on Twitter. Basically, I

02:01
I went to go look on my Twitter feed, and I was getting all of these notifications from all of these people that I don’t even follow, and I don’t know, and I’m like, What is going on? So I go on to Twitter, and there was like me following like, 5000 people, and I’m like, Ah, I don’t follow 5000 people, and if I do, they’re like, psychologists, counselors, life coaches, you know, things are related to what I do. It was like political stuff, and you know, advertisements and I’m just like, What is going on? So it was like 5000 people I did not follow…. somebody did that. And I was like, oh, out hell No! Biotches. Ah, we’re not doing that. And then number two, it was like, they started getting rid of journalists. I’m like, well, for somebody who is screaming about freedom of speech. That’s pretty much the antithesis of freedom of speech. So yeah, I decided to kill my Twitter, so I’m not on Twitter. So if you want to follow me, you can follow me on Facebook, you can follow me on Instagram. And that’s it.

You know the idea of social media is I think a good thing because it did bring a lot of people together but it’s also been used to be divisive. And I don’t like that. I don’t I don’t like that if I wanted my feeds filled with hate speech and nastiness and ads for things I will never use.

03:31
You know? No, no, thank you. I did not sign up for that. The reason I signed up for social media initially was to connect with family and friends that are scattered all over the globe. You know, I did not connect for nastiness either. Lord help us there is enough of that around in the real world, let alone the virtual world. So yeah, so there we go. It’s like if that which offended your soul get rid of so that’s what I did.

So anyway, I you know, and here’s the thing on social media, and I know we’ve talked about this before, the ones who are the trolls tend to be narcissistically personality disordered because they’re getting off. They’re getting their supply by upsetting someone by hurting someone by doing nasty things. Who needs that? I don’t need that. You don’t need that. The world does not need that. So, anyway, they’re endeth the rant, so I’m off of Twitter. So there we go. Okay, so let’s see.

Um, today, we are talking about contrast and compare. So a lot of people have question they’re like, Well, how do I know if somebody is a narcissist or it’s their addiction talking or what is the deal? Well, here’s the thing. Addiction, whether it’s drugs or alcohol, or sex, or exercise, or any of these things, always mimics narcissism. It does. So when an addict is in In the thralls of the addiction, they act very much like a narcissist. It’s all about them; their wants, their needs, their drug, their, you know, whatever. And I sometimes have people go, Oh no, each addiction is different. I’m like, No, the behavior is all the same look at it, you know, the behavior is all the same. So narcissists tend to be addicts. So let’s be clear about this. And this is where it gets confusing because people are like, Oh my god, I had an addiction coming out of an abusive relationship. Am I a narcissist? Well, if you’re not doing all the narcissistic things, then no. So let’s just be clear, a lot of times, people come out of abusive relationships, and they do get addicted to drugs and alcohol because we’re trying to numb ourselves from all of the moo going on over there, you know what I’m saying?

05:50
Yeah, so, um, so the behaviors mimic each other. So I wanted to be very clear about that. And you cannot tell if the person has got a personality disorder, as long as there are drugs and alcohol or whatever the addiction is sex exercise, whatever, as long as that is the main focus of their life, because their thinking is not going to be clear, it’s going to be very much directed towards getting those dopamine, serotonin Nora epinephrine is going right because that’s why we do it. It’s like an alcoholic, a drug addict. Oh, this feels really great. And I can make it feel even better. You know, that’s what we do. So um, so we you cannot tell if a person is narcissistic, or borderline or whatever, until you get the addiction off the back, the monkey off the back of the person, and then you can see what the behaviors that are there, or the behaviors that should be there that are not, does that make sense? So I wanted to do a contrast and compare, and I pulled these off of Psychology Today.

This is who wrote this Peg Streep. Is he or she an addict first or a narcissist first? And again, you cannot tell until you pull the addiction off. If you really want to know if your partner can change after substance abuse treatment, you need to ask yourself these five questions as your partner overcomes his or her addiction, are the two of you still feeling distant? And I think that is a huge red flag. So healthy, healthy, relatively healthy. People who are not narcissistically disordered, when they go into treatment, and they start getting it, like really start getting it like they start working the steps or whatever the program is, I mean, there’s a whole bunch of different programs out there, AA is the one that’s most recognized. So when they start working the steps and they start taking responsibility, okay? Because that’s one of the steps it’s like, first of all, you got to turn it over higher power, whatever. And then you got to start going, Okay, what did how who did I hurt? Who did I hurt with my behavior? How can I make amends? Can I make amends, you know, and, you know, keep moving upwards on the steps, and then helping other people and all of that good stuff.

So, with an addict, if they’re just an act, just an addict. So if they’ve got complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, once they start working the steps, they start taking personal responsibility, they realize the amount of shame they have, and they want to change it, they’ll go get a therapist, and start working on the complex post-traumatic stress disorder that caused the addiction in the first place. Look, we don’t pop out of the womb going, Hey, I’d really love to be an addict. We don’t. We become addicts when for people that are not narcissists, we become addicts, when we’re dealing with a high level of abuse, neglect, harm, you know, verbal, mental, emotional, physical, sexual, you know, and we’re trying to know, so once we come out of that, that fog, right, and we started going, oh, oh, I’d like to change that. You start working on that stuff, and you get real and you get humble, like, seriously, the biggest thing I see that happens with addicts that are still in love with their drug of choice is they’re not humble. They cop an attitude they think that they know better than everybody else. Oh, I can do this on my own. I could white knuckle it, I can you know, I can have one. Well, one is too many and 1000 is not enough if you’re a real addict, you know what I’m saying? So, um, it’s the humbleness it’s like, when you finally get it. You get humble because you’re like, that could have frickin killed me. Oh, my God and you start working on it. Right? You start working on the behaviors that were driving the addiction.

What usually happens with a narcissist their addictions can be drugs and alcohol.

10:00
absolutely, it’s usually sex addiction, is what I’ve seen. And when they are asked to work on it, they never are able to get humble. There’s no humble. There’s no there, there’s no there there. So they’re not able to get humble, they’re not able to take personal responsibility, they get pissed off at their sponsor, they get pissed off of having to go to these meetings. Yeah. And I’m just like, Okay, I know, you’re showing me who you are, you’re showing me who you are. So if and when, it’s when it’s the addiction and the abuse that’s driving the addiction behavior. When the person starts getting healthier, they turn towards their partner for support, and there’s a closeness there, and they support each other.
So, for example, the sober partner doesn’t bring in drugs and alcohol, you know, to enter the house when this person is trying to recover. But you know, a disordered partner would and narcissist remember are, so one of their hallmarks is sabotaging the partner. So if the partner is dealing with PTSD and an addiction, and they’re trying to get clean and sober, they’re going to be, Oh, come on. Oh, come on, just one. Oh, come on. Come on. You can do it, you know, they sabotage, they sabotage. So the closeness when you get the drugs off, and you start dealing with the real stuff, which is the abuse and neglect, the harm the this, that the couple will start getting closer because they start talking communication, communication, communication, just like with real estate, with a relationship, it’s communication, communication, communication, that is the key seriously, and honest, deep real communication and what our narcissist incapable of that would be honest, deep real communication, just in case you weren’t clear on that. So that’s why if the person is going through some sort of 12 Step Program, or some sort of sober program, and there’s still this distance, there’s still this, you know, and that’s a red flag that is a red flag. Okay, hold on getting back to the other ones.

12:11
Okay, does your partner announce that they’ve made the most progress of anyone at AA instead of sharing with you their vulnerable feelings, like sadness, or loneliness, or fear, or doubt, or, you know, whatever, because when you’re going through the 12 steps, you’re having to really take a hard look in the mirror, and you’re having to go ooh, I did this. I did that. Oh, damn, I owe this person an apology. Ouch. You know, and you’re dealing with that instead of being, like, chest-pounding on the greatest thing ever.

Yeah, realize if you were raised by a narcissist, that’s a flea. If you can kill that flea, then you’re not a narcissist. If you, if you can go, Oh, wow, that’s my ego talking. What is up with that? Okay, ego, what do you know, okay. It’s kind of like a version of the inner critic. But it’s like a false. It’s like a false cheerleader. So like, the real cheerleader would be like, I love you good job, good job, keep going. The false cheerleader is like. I’m the best ever. I don’t need a I can do it on my own bla bla. So that’s the false one. That’s the ego talking. So the false cheerleader is the ego going on the best ever on the look how great, instead of really getting real and going for the vulnerable emotions. Wow. You know, I went to a meeting tonight. And you know, I was talking with my sponsor. And I had this realization, this is when I started drinking holy crap, you know, or started using or started, you know, abusing or whatever. And, you know, and you get real with it. Now, psychopaths can fake real emotions, but they can’t keep them up for very long. So it’s consistency. You’re looking for consistency. So if a person is consistent with being vulnerable and consistent with calling themselves out and going, oh, yeah, Clean up on aisle five. Yeah, I did that one. Where’s the bucket? Okay. You know, I mean, that’s a good sign if they’re real about it. And they make true apologies, which is I own this, I did this. Let me clean it up. What can I do to make amends? And if the other person and here’s the thing that people always get stuck on? It’s like, what if the other person doesn’t forgive me? Well, that’s on them. That’s not on you. You’ve made the offer. You’ve said I screwed up. Here’s my responsibility. I am so sorry. What can I do to make amends? And if they go, you know, then okay, well, that’s on them. You know, you’ve done the right thing. They’re doing what they need to do. You let it go. Right. So and that’s a tough one for a lot of addicts to get. Um, so the ego you want to be careful of the ego. It’s like if they’re just like, Oh, I’m the greatest thing ever, and I don’t need AA I’m going to be a sponsor in six months. Oh, Lord. No, no, thank you.
Okay. Does your partner show a pattern of exploitation

15:00
Session entitlement and empathy impairment, the triple E, the hallmark of pathological narcissism even after they stop using. So again, you’re looking at behaviors. What are the behaviors? So they’ve got a sense of entitlement, you know, a mile and a half wide, and they have no empathy. They can’t relate. They can’t, you know, they can’t understand how another person is feeling. And exploitation, they’re using people. They use people, use people, use people. That’s narcissism. So that’s the difference. Does that make sense? So when somebody gets clean and sober, they may have been doing those things when they had drugs and alcohol or whatever their addiction was on board. But once they get clean and sober, that’s when you go, oh my god, I did this and this, and holy crap. Get with a therapist. Let’s work this out. Where did I get this from? Where did I learn it? What’s going on? You know, and you fix it. So hang on.

16:01
Does their emotional sharing feel empty, shallow, or fueled largely by 12 Step jargon or psychobabble instead of genuine remorse or sadness for the pain that they’ve caused. I cannot tell you the number of times when I was doing couples counseling when I did in person I did couples counseling I don’t do it anymore because I’m doing videos so it’s I don’t like doing video couples because I can’t it’s too hard to try to read body language and stuff. So but when I was doing in person couples counseling oh well you know the psychobabble psychobabble psychobabble, jargon jargon jargon jargon jargon. Okay, well, what are you doing? Oh, well, did you know again word salad, right, psychobabble. If somebody’s doing psychobabble to you if somebody is doing, you know AA jargon or recovery jargon, but there’s no substance behind it. That’s a huge red flag that they are a narcissist not just an addict. So there is that okay.

Um, does their emotional okay. Are they secretive about their treatment experience as though you couldn’t possibly understand what I’ve been through? Unless you’ve been there too. Oh, my God. When I was working at the homeless shelter. I had people try to pull that on me all the time. And then I would tell them the story of my childhood, and then they would shut the hell up, which is what they should have done. So because they don’t want to get sober. That’s thing you got to understand the addiction wants you dead, much like a narcissist, it wants you dead and they will come up with any excuse in the book for you to not stop using. Right? So oh, I’m not going to listen to this therapist. They haven’t had the life I’ve had they’ve never lived on the streets. They’ve been ba, ba, ba you see where I’m going with that? It’s all moo. It’s all moo. It’s all moo. It’s all moo. And it’s the addiction talking, trying to find it desperately trying to find a way to not stop using.

18:08
So yeah, that’s, that’s another hallmark of a real narcissist. Okay, so this next one is narcissism and drug addiction. What happens when the two disorders meet? So just to briefly go back through narcissism. They’re both boastful, pretentious, emotionally distant, jealous, devaluing others, intermittent positive rewards, etc, etc, etc.

How do narcissistic drug addicts behave? They have unrealistic demands for the therapist, other patients, and anyone else involved in the treatment program, that is very true. When the criteria when their criteria of perfection is failed to be met by others, the narcissist usually storms out of treatment. That is very true. Narcissists tend to deny that they are addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex, exercise, or whatever. Regardless of what it looks like, they describe their drug use as boosting their energy and life.

How are narcissism and drug addiction related or addiction related? The cycle of narcissistic personality disorder and addiction are quite similar. The cycle of addiction involves cravings, cravings, growing and growing tolerance, and withdrawal. Narcissistic crave the feeling of superiority, and they are always seeking new and better triumphs that lead to greater glory. When narcissists do not receive the admiration they crave, such as through criticism, indifference, or disrespect, they exhibit significant distress. So again, a narcissist, I swear to God, they will say love me or hate me, I don’t care. Just don’t ignore me. So they would rather have criticism yelling, angry, hurt, upset, why aren’t you getting sober blah, blah, blah, than nothing. And that’s your sign. Here’s your sign. Okay. And this article is or is this from the Dawn Residential Services.

So, okay, how okay? Are narcissism and drug addiction related? Yes, absolutely. The similarities between narcissism and drug addiction the similarities between narcissism and drug addiction are that the individual depends on something external. To fill the emptiness inside. The narcissist relies on admiration and attention from other people which can be real or imagined for their well being. They create situations of accomplishment so that people will congratulate them or even become envious of them, and act in ways that make others pay attention to them. This is accomplished in a similar manner to the way an addict ensures their drug supply is constant and secure. They put a lot of time and effort into crafting situations keeping up an appearance in order to fill their emptiness. Nevertheless, the attention and admiration that they’re that they require increases over time, just like how an addict needs to increase their dose of alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever, when they feel as though they are not receiving the adequate amount of attention and admiration they experience anxiety and ultimately depression. So that’s a collapsed narcissist.

Overlapping characteristics between narcissism and drug addiction include self-medication, emotional avoidance, shame, denial, minimizing, normalizing blaming, low self-esteem, controlling behavior and or manipulation, codependency, black-and-white thinking, and anger slash rage. So this is why so many survivors that are in relationships with either a narcissist or an addict have a hard time discerning is it? Is it narcissism? Is it the addiction? What’s going on? You’re not going to be able to tell until you get the addiction off the back of the person until they quit using, and then you’re going to be able to see it’s super clear. Like I said, if it’s just a thought, it’s just an addiction. No addictions are serious. But if it’s, you know, they can kill you. And they want to kill it. So if it’s just an addiction and not a personality disorder, they will have like an awakening, I guess, is the way to put it. It’s like going through the steps. And going, Oh, Mamma mia, whoa, whoa, holy cow. You know, this is how I need to change my life. This is what I’m going to do to change my life. This is how I’m going to get a therapist. This is what I’m going to, you know, do you see where I’m going with that? Whereas a narcissist, when they’re called out on their stuff, what do they do? Oh, you’re wrong. It’s you. It’s you. It’s your you, you, you, you guns, no, no, no personal response. It’s all about personal responsibility. Taking personal responsibility, you know, you screwed up, you got to make amends. And if they don’t accept the amends, well, you’ve done the best you can leave the door open, and maybe they’ll come back around and accept that maybe they won’t, you know, so it’s about the humbleness. It’s about the realness. It’s about, honestly, the vulnerable emotions. Narcissists are not able to be vulnerable. They have to be right at all costs. And I do mean all costs. They will shoot themselves in the foot in order to go to the grave, right? They would rather die, right, Than, you know, be wrong for two seconds seriously, which is stupid, which is also why I left Twitter.

Okay, so those behaviors that I just listed, those are both addiction behaviors and narcissistic behaviors. So that’s why it’s so hard to tell which is which. And you can have a dual diagnosis. So like I said, I’ve said this many, many times. Any any condition can be a dual diagnosis. You can have narcissism and an addiction issue. You can have narcissism and depression, you can have narcissism and borderline, you can have narcissism, and you know, fill in the blank, it’s like, whatever. Whatever is out there, you can have a dual diagnosis, and usually, addict or addicts will stick around if it’s just addiction and no personality disorder. And they’re able to get the monkey off their back and have support. They’ll continue growing. They’ll continue working on themselves. They’ll eventually become pure supports. In some cases, there’ll become sponsors after a year or two, hopefully two. You know what I’m saying? But a narcissist. As soon as the going gets tough, they quit. They they’re not willing to look at themselves. They’re not willing to get vulnerable. They’re not willing to deal with the real issues. It’s too threatening for them. They’re just unable to cope with it.

Okay, basically, if you want to help somebody who uses expect it, you don’t know if it’s the addiction or if it’s the narcissism, help them get clean. And if they refuse, or if they keep going back to it, or if once they get clean and sober, boy, you can see that there are narcissists to run do not walk to the nearest exit. You cannot change and a narcissistic personality disorder. You can’t, you can’t, you can’t force an addict to get clean, either, you know, all you can do is say, Dude, you killed yourself, here’s, here’s some help. Hope you go get it. You know, and I think that is the scary thing for a lot of families is that they want to control, obviously, which makes sense because they don’t want their person to die. But you know, if they’re not willing to work on their stuff, then there’s not much you can do. And narcissists are not willing to work on their stuff. That is the big thing. I think that is the difference because a person who comes out of addiction and realizes what they’re doing, is working on the stuff and is genuine and real. And they’ve got a good sponsor, and they’re, you know, talking, communicating and making amends and taking personal responsibility.

Narcissists won’t do any of that, never, they will never, they’ll never do a genuine apology, they could do the fake crocodile tears, but the behavior will change. So the behavior will continue. So if they continue to exploit, manipulate, no compassion, no empathy, you know, sense of entitlement, then they are a narcissist. So there is that. Okay, one more thing.

So alcohol use disorder can be mild, medium, or severe. Based on the number of symptoms you experience, signs and symptoms may include, and this is from the Mayo Clinic, being unable to limit the amount of alcohol you drink. So, again, it’s like one is too many, and 1000 is not enough. It’s like they start drinking, they can’t stop binge drinking, that’s another thing that they do, okay, wanting to cut down on how much you drink or making unsuccessful attempts to do so.

27:07
Spending a lot of time drinking, getting alcohol or recovering from alcohol use, feeling a strong craving or urge to drink alcohol, failing to fulfill major obligations at work, school or home due to repeated alcohol use, continuing to drink alcohol, even though you know it’s causing physical, social work or relationship problems. So like I said, the addiction wants us dead, much like a narcissist. And sometimes, people’s rock bottom scares the hell out of me. Because not everybody’s rock bottom is the same. Not everybody’s rock bottom is the same. Sometimes people are able to go, you know, I’m drinking too much. I’ve got a family history. I’m going to stop, right? Other people, it’s like they have to go through this physical hell before they finally stop. So and once they finally get it, thank God because it wants us dead. It wants us dead. Just I cannot stress that enough. Much like the narcissist the addiction wants the user dead. It does.

Giving up or reducing social or work activities or hobbies to use alcohol, using alcohol in situations where it’s not safe, like driving or swimming, developing a tolerance to alcohol so that you need more and more and more to feel its effect. Or if you have a reduced effect from the same amount. experiencing withdrawal symptoms is called post-acute withdrawal when you don’t drink or drinking to avoid these symptoms.

So there are two drugs on the face of the planet for sure that will kill you dead if you stop them cold turkey. One is alcohol because it has a paradoxical effect. So initially, when you drink the alcohol, it’s a downer. That’s why a lot of us drank because it’s like, oh my god, I can stop being so anxious. Oh my god. That’s lovely. That’s great that as the alcohol leaves the system, all of your metabolic responses go in the polar opposite direction. Drives up blood pressure drives up your heart rate. you’re dehydrated, it’s terrible, and you can die from it. If you’re drinking enough alcohol, you can have a seizure and seize out and die. Let me be clear, this will kill you. If you don’t get help. It’s going to kill you just like a narcissist. In fact, one of my clients brilliant, it’s a liquid narcissist. And I was like, wow, it’s true. It’s a liquid narcissist. It wants you dead. It does. And the other drug that will kill you is benzodiazepine. If you go cold turkey. This is why you never ever, ever stop a medication cold turkey you cannot. You’ve got to discuss with your doctor, is it safe to stop or do I have to wean down off of it because there are physical things that can happen. You can have a stroke. You can have a seizure you Heart attack all sorts of stuff, huh? Yeah, so you need to know that.

Okay. Now the next one is drug addiction. So they’re very similar. I want you to notice it’s not it doesn’t matter what the substance is. It’s the behavior, feeling that you have to regularly use the drug daily or several times a day, having intense urges for the drug to block out any other thoughts, over time needing more of the drug to get the same effect, taking larger amounts of the drug over a longer period of time than you intended. making certain that you maintain a supply of the drug, spending money on the drug even though you can’t afford it. Not meeting obligations or work responsibilities, cutting back on social or recreational activities because of drug use, continuing to use the drug even though you know it’s causing problems in your life or causing you physical or psychological harm, doing things to get the drug that you normally wouldn’t do, such as stealing, driving or doing other risky behavior while you’re under the influence of the drug, spending a good deal of time getting the drug using the drug recovering from the drug or thinking about the drug failing and your attempts to stop using the drug experiencing withdrawal symptoms when you attempt to stop taking the drug. So isn’t that interesting? Isn’t that interesting?

31:18
So it doesn’t matter what the substance is, guys, and I keep telling people that it doesn’t matter what the substance is. It’s the addiction. It’s the behavior. It’s always the behavior always goes back to behavior. So basically, contrast and compare when a person is in the thrall of the addiction. They absolutely act like a narcissist. Why? Because if it’s if it’s drugs, you know, it’s the drug narcissist. If it’s alcohol, is the liquid narcissist. It’s all the same, really, in the behavior when you think about it. When the person gets clean, right, the drugs are gone, and they’re supposedly getting help, but that behavior is still there. Okay, now that’s a horse of a different color. Now we’re dealing with narcissism, really. And especially if they use the jargon, you know, the psychobabble, the jargon, then you know, they become they try to become a bigwig in AA. I’ve seen that too.

So if you’re going to AAA, here’s my recommendation. When you start, there’s going to be people that are going to want to be your sponsor, you be picky as hell. Here’s the requirements. They need to have a minimum of three years of sobriety; minimum, AAA has a really bad habit of trying to push people to become sponsors after their first year. I don’t think it’s a good deal. I don’t I don’t think it’s a good idea. Because that first year of getting sober, you’re just keeping your nose above water, right? Second year. You’re kind of like, oh, I can do the backstroke. Okay, that’s okay, okay, I got it. I’m so okay. Let me try this. I stroke. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that’s good. Okay. Okay. Let me let me try the butterfly, you know, and you start learning how, right third year, you’ve kind of got a down. It’s like, okay, I got a got a good grasp and hidden meanings. I’m doing what I need to be doing. I’m talking to my sponsor, I think I’m ready for responses. And then, when you find a sponsor, make sure they have no more than three to four sponsees. Now, there are narcissists in AA, that will have 15 sponsees. That’s ridiculous. When you’re first recovering, you need somebody you can call up at three o’clock in the morning and go dude, meet me at the coffee shop, talk me off the ledge because I frickin want to use. Okay, if somebody’s got 15 sponsees, they’re not going to have time for you. They’re not. it’s a recipe for failure. So get somebody the rule of threes, get somebody who’s got three years sobriety, at least minimum, and somebody who has three to maybe five sponsees, I would say four would be okay, three would be better. And then that way, they’ll have time for you and then hit your meetings, get a therapist. It’s like, okay, great. You’re sober. That’s awesome. So that’s lovely that you worked on. Tipping the bottle, but what tipped the bottle? I love that saying, oh my god, what caused the bottle to tip in the first place? What was driving the addiction? Does that make sense? So you get a therapist, and you start working on what is this? What is this cesspool under here? Let’s get this cleaned out. Let’s get it pumped out. Let’s get rid of it. Let’s clean this out. So that’s what you want to do. So all right, okay. Now think I’m going to hit the question.

So basically, to recap just to so addiction acts just like a narcissist. It does. Narcissists are narcissists. They will not get help. They will, they’ll go for a little bit, but if they cannot manipulate the situation, they’ll quit. If they can manipulate the situation, watch their ego because they’re the ones that gather all of the sponsees to them. All right, they want to be seen as a guru, remember, so they do the psychobabble. They do this, the jargon this to that. And it’s none of its real. So um, so yeah, so there’s that. So you can only tell what’s really going on, really, if you get the drug off. So one time I had a client come in, it was so sad.

35:23
They were using heroin. And I said, Okay, when was the last time you used and she said, this morning, and I said, okay, sweetie, you need to go to a detox center because I, I’m not going to be able to help you. When you’ve got drugs on board, you got to get you clean and sober first. That is the first issue because this will kill you. If you keep using right? Pitched fit through things, slammed my door, told me to go copulate myself, you know, because she wanted to keep using basically. And it was like, and I told her, I said, I know you’re mad at me. But when you’re ready, I’m here. And she never came back. And I don’t know what happened to her. So that’s just an example of how the addiction wants you to keep using. So it will sabotage because prior to that, she had told me she’d been clean and sober for like a week. And then she comes in and says, Oh, I use this morning, and I’m like, Oh, baby. No, no, you know, so that’s how insidious addiction is. It is sneaky. It’s covert. It’s a liquid narcissist. It’s drug narcissist. It’s exactly how the narcissist behaves. And their endgame is the same. Both addiction and narcissists want the target dead, ded, dead.

36:45
There it is. Can’t tell what you’re dealing with until you get the drugs off board. The behaviors. Narcissistic walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, takes a dump like a duck. It’s a duck. So there it is. All right, let’s hit the questions showing. All right.

Do narcissists always think they know better than everyone else? Oh, my God. Yes. Holy cow. I, Yes. So narcissists will go into any situation and be an expert. Like literally any situation. So, for example, you know, they’ll be at a party, and somebody will ask them something about construction. And they’re like, you know, some other job, and suddenly, they’re an expert in construction. So yeah, they will do that because they need to be seen as superior, better than everybody else knows, everybody else, you know, has a better grasp on life than everybody else, you know, that kind of thing. So, yes, they need to be seen as an expert on everything. And they will just start talking out of their hind end and not know what they’re talking about. So, yeah, they absolutely do that. My late narc mother was like that, but at the same time, she played dumb, learned helplessness, and pretended not to understand or know anything. So it’s this weird contradiction is this weird? Contradiction. Diametrically opposed so on the one hand, they need to be experts on everything but on the other hand, they also get narcissistic supply by the learned helplessness.

So let’s talk about learned helplessness for a quick minute; learned helplessness is where they’ve learned that they get attention when they play the innocent little victim, and I just don’t understand blink, blink…you know, and it’s a way for them to get narcissistic supply. So if they can’t get the narcissistic supply being the expert on basically everything, then they get the narcissistic supply by playing the victim. So again, that’s covert. So you’re dealing with an overt, covert thing, and Narcissus, so back it up, back, back it up, back it up. What narcissists will do is they will switch between the different forms of nurses so the overt is like that. Look at me, look at me, I’m the expert, and everything bla bla bla covert is the victim, right? I don’t know anything, and I don’t know how to do this, and you need to save me and, gosh, why doesn’t anybody call me anymore? Nobody loves me. I’m going to go to the garden and eat big slimy, hairy worms. That’s covert, right? Because they’re the victim. Right? Then there’s somatic, which is all about the body, and it’s they switch back and forth between the different forms to get whatever their supply, whatever they need, just like a drug addict. Okay. So yeah, that makes total sense that it would switch back and forth.

39:44
Do narcs often get addicted to sex? Yes. 110% in almost every single case of when I was doing couples counseling, and I realized the partner was a narcissist. They had a sex addiction. And that includes porn addiction. They are very much addicted to porn and sex. Absolutely. Why power and control? Because if they’re the one that’s, you know, forcing it on whoever or they’re watching porn, or they’re whatever, it’s all about control. It’s all about control. It’s all about power and control, power and control. And they will use those addictions to torment the partner, you know, well, you’re not giving me what I need. So I have to go outside the marriage. Let me just grow on that one. And so they try to make it the partner’s fault. Well, it’s your fault. It’s your fault. I’m watching porn. It’s your fault that you know you don’t satisfy me. It’s your fault. But then, if the partner finally makes a move to leave, guess what happens? Oh, baby, baby, I’ll change everything.….You’re wonderful. You’re the best thing that ever happened to me. Blah, blah, blah, blah, Hoover, Hoover, Hoover. They’re heinous. They’re heinous, heinous, and remember, it’s not just men. It’s women to women can be addicted to porn. Women can be sex addicts. You know, it’s it. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. They usually are, actually. Yeah, it’s kind of scary.

My narc. Half-sister has relations with many different men, usually married from her work, and she thinks there’s nothing wrong with that.

41:29
Well, first of all, she’s having relations with married men that are unavailable. Not ever going to be able to be really with her. If she too, is married, she is putting her partner, you know, at risk. Even if she’s not married. She’s putting her partner at risk. And this is the thing that makes me so angry. If you have a partner that you suspect is cheating on you for the love of God and all that’s holy, go get tested. Go get tested for AIDS, and chlamydia. Oh, what was the old-fashioned disease that killed so many people? Begins with a P? Syphilis, syphilis. So aids, chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrhea, get tested for that. Because generally, if they’re sleeping with one person, they’re usually sleeping with more than one because they need a harem. They need a harem. They need multiple people to tell them how fabulous they are, and how great are, and how desirable they are, and how this how the external supply. So that’s what they do. So yeah, if you get out of the relationship, save yourself. They’re not going to change. It’s not about you. It’s not about your sexuality. It’s not about your desirability. It’s nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with their ego, and their lack of compassion, and their sense of entitlement. And yes, they usually do have a harem. They usually do. They need multiple supplies to make themselves feel good. So yeah, absolutely.

Okay, I wish I left the abuse sooner. My child has some traits of his mom that scare me. How do I tell the difference between fleas and full-blown narcissistic personality disorder? So everyone who was raised by a narcissist or somebody with a personality disorder picks up fleas. We all do. So it’s a matter of getting to a good counselor or a good trauma counselor and getting those fleas squished. Or when you see the behavior? Squish it. It’s like, Nope, we do not behave like that. No, we do not rage like that. No, we do not lie like that. No, we do not manipulate like that. That is not okay. And you put the smackdown. You don’t have to smear the other partner. But you do have to let the child know what is what they what is acceptable behavior and what is unacceptable behavior. And yeah, every kid that has to deal with a narcissist is going to pick up those fleas, or if they’re dealing with somebody who has borderline personality disorder, they’re going to have fleas, which is why I always tell people, it’s like if you’re going to divorce, which I highly recommend. When you do the divorce decree, you must have in there that the kids get to have therapy with a good trauma therapist. Now you don’t have to come out and tell them I’m getting a good current trauma therapist because you’re a crazy bleep bleep bleep bleep. You can say hey, they’re having trauma from the divorce.

44:26
That’s still trauma. And gosh, and it happens to work on what’s going on with the other partner, who may or may not be personality disordered? Hazzah it works. So make sure that you get in your divorce decree that yes, they get to have trauma counseling for the divorce. Absolutely. They’re not going to like it because they don’t want eyes on that. They don’t want anybody to know what they’re doing. So how do you tell if it’s full-blown or if it’s just fleas? If it’s full-blown, the behavior will change ever, ever, ever, ever. If the behavior changes, then it’s just fleas. It’s just learned behavior. And so basically, you start nipping it in the bud if you catch your child lying. Ah, we don’t do that. No, no, that might fly over the other house, but it does not fly here. So there is that. And then, like I said, get with a good therapist. Okay?
How do I get past feeling frozen or paralyzed every single time the narc pops up, text, the thought of them, etc. It’s really affecting everything. Well, that’s kind of normal. Actually, when you look at complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, it’s all about our fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. So I strongly recommend getting CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker. He deals with all of that, you know, it’s like how… process the trauma, process what happened, process how you process things, basically. So freezing is a normal response. It’s part of the fight-flight-freeze or fawn. So some of us are fighters. Some of us are flares. Some of us are freezers, some of us are foreigners, and you can switch between them, depending on what the situation is, in order to stay safe. That’s what kids do. You know, that’s just the way of the world when we’ve been confronted with a crazy parent. And oh, my gosh, this isn’t working, and they’re going to get me. What do I do now? Okay, I’m going to switch from freezing to fawning, you know, or fighting to fawning, or, you know, whatever, you know, and that’s what kids do to stay safe. So it’s part of the fight, flight freeze, or fawn response. So you want to work CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi.
So as your self-esteem builds, and as you’re understanding the complex, post-traumatic stress, and realizing why you did the things you did or why you’re feeling the way you feel when you see their name or whatever, it… Knowledge is power. And it helps bring back the safety and it brings back the security, and it brings back the certainty, which is what you want. And so you’re less likely to freeze, you’re less likely to find or if you’re doing it, you’re conscious about it. It’s like, okay, I’m dealing with this boss. That’s cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Here’s how I’m going to play it, you know, and it’s a conscious decision. It’s like, okay, fine. Okay, I know. I’m going to be doing that for the next 30 minutes. Okay, and not making yourself wrong. Do you see where I’m going with that? So I know it’s game-playing in the corporate world, but a lot of narcissists are CEOs, and it’s no Bueno. Twitter. Um, okay. Let’s see. Doo doo doo doo doo. Okay.
Will you be coming to Canada sometime in the future? There’s all sorts of stuff you guys would find fun. And places to take the dog. Avoid winter season. Oh, Lord, yes. I am planning on coming to Canada. It’s probably going to be. I’m trying to think when am I going to get up there. So we’ve got to get Moana, who’s my new dog, kind of in a routine, get her used to traveling and all of that sort of good stuff. We’re planning on being up there in May, is what I think. But nothing is written in stone yet. I want to make sure that Moana is doing good with the training and we get her secure, and I can find a dog house sitter that she’s safe with. So that’s my main issue. I mean, I would like to take her up to Canada, but I’m not sure we can do it that trip. But if we do go to Canada in May, it will either be May or June. Let me let me make that promise. It’ll either be May or June.

48:40
Because we’ll be up there at the end of May. So and it will be Vancouver. So we will be in the Vancouver area. I’m going to say June, let’s say June. I’ll be in the Vancouver area in June like early June, like first of the month. So that kind of thing. So we’ll do that. And I love Vancouver. I’ve always loved Vancouver. Vancouver is very awesome. So I love Canada, period. So um, yeah, so that’s what we’re planning on doing. Probably won’t be able to bring the dog this time. But eventually, we will. we will start traveling because I want to start traveling with Moana. I want her to come with me. I hate the idea of leaving her home with a dog sitter. I would much rather her come travel with us so and especially since she’s under 50 pounds. I can take her with me into hotels and stuff, which makes me very happy. Okay, so yes, June. Let’s plan on June, Vancouver, June. There we go. There we go. Okay. And then I’ll get that to. Also I’m going to at the first of the year, start looking into the cruise again. We’re going to do the Bahamas again. So I will get information on that sometime in January and we can start planning for a cruise. I think that would be a lot of fun.

Okay, how do you move past the feeling of abandonment?

49:59
Well, Dad gives the silent treatment on the golden child and called my dad out when I found out about his affair. He ignores me. Oh, okay. It is abandoned. It absolutely is abandonment. It is a form of punishment. It’s called. It’s called the cold shoulder. It’s withholding. It’s an effort to get you to not call him out on his stuff. Okay. So it is abandonment, it is abuse, it is neglect. It’s, it’s a form of manipulation. Because when somebody is shunned, when somebody is ignored, when somebody is, you know, I’m not, I’m not talking to you, you know, that kind of thing. It lights up the same pain centers in the brain as physical pain. And that is on purpose by them. Somehow, they know, it causes a great deal of pain to the recipient of the shunning. And that’s why they do it because it gets results because how many kids are able to stand up to that? And not eventually at some point, especially if they’re little turnaround and beg for forgiveness? Please talk to me, please talk to me. Ah, ah, this person is doing that they by the by now live your life. Go pound sand, Buh bye. Bye now. You don’t need them. You don’t need them. So it is a betrayal. It absolutely is. Because they set these golden children up, right? And then as soon as a golden child goes, holy crap, this is no bueno oh, what is going on here? Hey, this is not okay. Then they punish the golden child. And now you’re the scapegoat. And that’s the thing. It’s like the rolls can flip on a dime. And it’s very confusing for the kids. You know, it’s like suddenly the scapegoat is now the golden child, and the golden child has now scapegoat or now, you know, gold child’s the ignored middle child or you know, whatever. I mean, it’s just it’s ridiculous. So yeah, it is betrayal. So my recommendation would be right in burn a letter, do not send it! do not send it. They’re not going to get it there. This behavior is ingrained in them. They’re showing you who they are. They’re not going to get it right and burn a letter, Dear Dad, how freaking dare you, you S.O.B., and then just let them have it in a letter, you know? And then, when you’re done at the very end, take your power back. Take your power back. We’re done here. Dude. You’re terrible. Dad. Good dads don’t do this. You don’t get to live rent-free in my head. One more second. Go pound sand. And preferably, do yourself with a baseball bat that has splinters, sideways. Yeah, take your power back and then burn it. Burn it. Let it go. You can’t change them. You can’t make them see that what they’re doing is wrong. You can’t make them see that they’re in the they’re in the wrong and they’re a terrible parent. You know, you can’t, so the best thing you can do is write it out. Get the anger out, the fear, the sadness out. You know, this hurts. This hurts. And no good parent intentionally hurts their child. I could swear right now. I’d be swearing up a blue streak because those type of people really piss me write that bleep off. So write it out, burn it, let it go. And it’s not going to be a one-and-done. It’s probably going to be several letters because since you’ve been the golden child, blinders have come off. What’s been seen cannot be unseen. And now you’re recognizing. Okay, well, there’s a lot. So write it out. Write it out, burn it, write it out, burn it, write it out, burn it. Get with a good therapist. A good trauma therapist. Absolutely. Okay, let’s see. Um, okay, he ignores me. Okay.

Can you explain nature nurture? Okay. So the eternal question, are psychological issues purely nature, or are they purely the way we’re raised? The eternal question. So John Nixon and I would have debates. He was my mentor when I was in college, and nature nurture. And honestly, I think it’s a combination. I think some people have got a genetic predisposition to have some psychiatric issues. I mean, obviously, the ones that are clearly neurological, so like, for example, Schizophrenia is a mutation of the 23rd genome. That’s not nurture. That’s nature. That’s the 23rd genome getting triggered by a retrovirus that’s causing the schizophrenia the hearing the voices, that not being able to process electromagnetic fields, etc, etc, etc. So that’s a physical issue. Bipolar is a physical issue.

55:00
The brain is unable to produce the right amounts of feel-good chemicals and to reabsorb them in the right amount. So it’s like when the manic phase is hitting. Boy, those senders are sending all the dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, etc, etc, etc, into the brain right, and the other receivers are not pulling them back into the body fast enough. That’s what’s causing the manic. Then when the person goes in the opposite direction, the receipt the senders or I’m sorry, the receivers are sucking everything out. And the senders are not able to produce enough of the feel-good chemicals; the person goes into a deep depression. So that’s physical, that’s has nothing to do with being the way you raised with personality disorders. Is there a predisposition? I think, yes, I think there is a genetic component, you know, but I also think that nurture has a lot to do with it, just like think about this the topic last week, which was attachments. So if you have a healthy attachment, you know, parent leaves, parent comes back, parent is consistent. There’s always, you know, the security there. And same thing with Moana, I have to keep showing her, it’s like, Baby, I’m coming right back. I’m running to the store, I’m coming right back, you know, it’s like you’re safe, it’s okay. And as I do more of that with her, she gets more and more confident. So it’s the same thing with a baby, you know, it’s like you got to show consistency that creates a secure attachment. The parent is absent drug addict, abusive, etc. It’s an insecure attachment because it’s not consistent. So nature sets us up. Nurture either pushes us over the cliff or pulls us back from it. That’s the way to look at so. Yeah, I think there’s a component of both in mental health issues. Absolutely. All right, my love’s, that is it for today. So be gentle with yourselves. And
I hope this was helpful. And have a great Christmas and New Year, and I will see you that first week in January. All right, I will talk to you guys later. Bye.

57:15
Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.
You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.