Kris Godinez  00:02

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

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Okay kids, let’s dive into the show. Something that abusers do it just annoys the living crap out of me, but you can can’t control it. So, you just got to learn to deal with it. What abusers do is they like to go on to, they like to go on to websites or, or discussions like this and they use stuff that they just like parental alienation, okay. So just like when we were talking about parental alienation that’s been hijacked by abusers, and they start claiming that the sane parent is parentally alienating, but in fact, it’s the crazy one. So, they do the same thing. They’ll come on to websites like this, or to pages like this, or discussions like this, and they’ll pick up terms and then they’ll flip them around and use them against their target of abuse. And they make you know, they add just enough truth to make it sound viable, which then sends the target of abuse into a tailspin going, oh my God, am

Kris Godinez  01:59

I this? Am I that? Am I the narcissist? Am I the abuser? Am.. I Am I a psychopath? Am I anti-social? Am I… and they do and they throw all of these terms out that they really truly don’t understand what they are. And here’s the other thing, guys. So, remember, if, if an abuser’s lips are moving, they are lying seriously! Serious as a heart attack. If they’re talking, they’re lying. They’re, they’re manipulating. They’re lying. They’re trying to figure out what they can do to get their way. They use terms and they use terms that they don’t fully understand. Or they’re using terms that are actually describing themselves.

So, let’s talk about the you, you, you, you, you guns okay. So, when an abuser is doing verbal abuse and this is verbal abuse, let us let us be clear about this. They are doing verbal abuse anytime they start name calling, that is verbal abuse. I cannot tell you the number of times I have had clients sit down and go oh well, but they never hit me. So, it wasn’t abuse. Oh, well, but they never did this. So, it wasn’t abuse. And I’m just like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, let’s, let’s be clear. Verbal abuse is abuse. Listen say it with me verbal abuse is abuse, verbal abuse, is abuse, verbal abuse is abuse period. Done. Take that home, put it in the bank, because that’s what it is it verbal abuse is abuse. Name Calling is specifically used by abusers to inflict harm, hurt self-doubt, gaslighting, rewriting history, etc, etc, etc. So, you, you you, you you guns, so what abusers love to do is they go You’re a psychopath. You’re antisocial. You’re this, you’re, you’re the narcissist you’re this. You’re the abuser You You You You okay, so yeah, there’s two fingers pointed out towards you. There are six fingers pointed back at the other person. Realize that when an abuser is saying things like this doing the you, you, you, you you guns, they are talking about themselves. Who is the psychopath? In this scenario? People who is the narcissist in this scenario, who is the abuser? It’s not the target. Let me, let’s just be clear, it’s not you guys. It’s them. It be them. It always be them, that it just it’s them, not you them. So, when somebody whips out the you, you, you, you, you guns and they’re calling you a Psychological diagnosis. You know what I’m saying? Anyway, when they’re doing that, if you really, that should be your like, that should be like, red flag flying right there. It’s like, what is the purpose of this? Why are they doing it? Whoa, I just moved my desk. Sorry.

So why are they doing that? Why are they? Why are they using psychological terms because they need to feel like they are. What’s the word I’m looking for? Valid or using something technical so that they know more than you do. That is what abusers do. Okay, so I pulled up a couple of articles, one from Psychology Today. And the other one is from Very Well, Family.

So, what is name calling? Name Calling is abusive, derogatory language or insults. It is a form of relational bullying. Now, this is mostly in regards to kids. But it’s so funny because they’re talking about what age range usually does this and it’s about four years old, and I just kind of went yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s about right because narcissists don’t really grow much past four years old. You know, it was like two to four, that’s about as much emotional intelligence as they get. So, it is relational bullying, and it is intended to harm or hurt one up, etc, etc, etc. Okay, hold on. Okay.

Kris Godinez  05:59

Consequences of name calling, name calling hurts in the moment and can have many lasting repercussions. The consequences of name calling include the following erodes sense of self. Okay. Yeah. How many times have they done that to you, you’re this, you’re that you’re a psychopath. You’re antisocial. You’re the narcissist. You’re, you know, whatever, fill in the blank, or they just flat out call names. I mean, I can’t tell you how horrible it is to hear some of the things that narcissists call their partners. I mean, it’s just vile, vile, vile. So, name calling is intended to erode the self-esteem. They’re trying to erode your sense of reality, and they’re trying to erode your self-esteem. They’re trying to take away what you already know about yourself. So that’s why they do the whole, you’re the abuser. You’re the narcissist, you’re a psychopath, you’re antisocial. And they do this all the time. I cannot tell you the number of clients I have come in, sit on the couch and go, Oh, my God, you know, am I the abuser? And I’m like, no, no, you’re not because you’re getting help. Number one, narcissists don’t stay in therapy, they may go once, maybe twice, possibly three times at the outlier. But after that, they quit. Because they don’t want to be accountable for their behavior, and they don’t like it that the therapist sees them. So um, yeah, it’s narcissist and abusive people, psychopaths don’t go get help, let’s just be clear about that. They think they’re smarter than everybody else. They don’t conform to social norms, they want to hurt people, they enjoy hurting people. Let’s talk about all this, shall we? Okay, back to the name calling it compromises beliefs and values. So, you know if they make fun of you, so let’s say for example, you get involved with, and this can go either way, you either get involved with somebody who has no belief system, like no higher power, no, none of that. And you do, and then they start making fun of you for having a higher power or vice versa. You don’t have a belief system, and they do and they start making fun of you for not having it’s kind of like jeez, Louise, people live and let live. So, it’s like, Do you see where I’m going with that? So, they start eroding whatever your belief system or your value system is? Either way, it’s not good because it’s kind of like, hey, you know, that’s, that’s their, your belief system, you believe that? That’s great. I’m gonna believe this, that’s great. You know, but remember, with an abuser, narcissists have to have everybody believing the exact same thing. And generally, they’re, they’re not truly religious, that they may be communal narcissists, and they use religion, but remember, they think they’re God so they’re not truly religious. So um, but they will use that they will use that to shame, blame, hurt, whatever, trying to get the person back to their belief system, as opposed to your belief system instead of allowing people to have their own thoughts and beliefs and etc, etc, etc. Because remember, the more disordered somebody is, the less able they are to accept differing opinions because it’s too threatening to their very fragile ego. Because remember, narcissists are all ego. Oh, completely 100%. Okay, so back to the name calling, okay? So, it erodes, compromises, beliefs and values.

It damages your sense of wellbeing it affects identity, who am I, you know, my abuser is constantly telling me I’m stupid. That’s what they do. Or that, you know, I’m damaged. I’m wrong. I’m bad. I’m this I’m that. So, it erodes the effect of identity. You know, it’s like, you start questioning, it’s like, oh, my God, am I the problem? Am I the problem am I…, and no, you’re not. You’re not.

Kris Godinez  09:44

It prompts internal criticism. What a surprise. It affects the mood. harms mental health causes depression, anxiety. Thoughts of suicide. Oh, my God. Yes. So, the national suicide prevention hotline is 1-800-273-8255. So, um, they do, they will, I cannot stress this enough to you. The reason they say these horrible and untrue things is because they want us dead. So, remember, narcissists are inherently pathologically jealous, they cannot stand anybody having anything that they don’t have. So, when somebody is joyous and happy and funny, and the whole thing, they want to ruin it, they want to take it away from them. And if they can’t take it away from them, they want that person dead. And so, they do whatever they think they need to in order to drive that person to self-harm. That’s what they do. That is absolutely what they do. They are evil to the nth degree. And the best thing to do is to get the bleep away from them. Seriously, you can’t fix them. You can’t. Once they’ve reached that dark triad, which is psychopath, narcissist Macchiavelian. Once they’ve reached that level of maliciousness. They don’t change. They don’t. They enjoy it. They’re sadistic, they enjoy it. And they enjoy the power that comes from “Ha ha ha, I made this person kill themselves.” They do that, they absofreakinglutely, they’re crazy. They absolutely do that.

Okay, so back to the name calling it compromises physical health, how many survivors of abuse have got auto immune diseases, how many survivors of abuse develop cancer, how many survivors of abuse go on to develop other physical issues, ulcers, etc, digestive systems, etc, etc, etc. You know, it’s they want us dead, and it causes all of this anxiety in our body and our body responds, and it can’t live up here at survival all the time. It’s got to come back down to calm. But when you’re with an abuser, it never does get back from survival to calm. It doesn’t because we’re constantly you know, Periscope up looking, looking, looking, looking, where’s the danger? Where’s the danger? And if they’re constantly calling us names, throwing around psychological terms, gaslighting, you know, creating self-doubt creating fear creating, you know, second guessing yourself. That’s what they love to do. They don’t want you confident, they don’t want you secure. They don’t want you healthy. I mean, honest to God, if you’re in a healthy relationship, okay, first of all, they’re not gonna they’re not gonna be name calling. They’re, they’re no name calling goes on a healthy relationship. Unless it’s Pooky. Boo. That’s the only name calling that should be going on. So, in a healthy relationship, if somebody is having a mental health issue, you don’t sit there and throw terms at them and damn them, you would help them get help. Am I not right? Of course, I’m right. So anyway, the point being is, is that they do this to hurt, to harm. So, if somebody is throwing around psychological terms at you and saying, you’re this, you’re that you’re this, you’re that and they’re not helping you get help. You can bet your sweet little bippy that they’re doing it to harm you, hurt you, erode your self-confidence, make you doubt yourself, second guess yourself, etc, etc, etc. So, there is that okay, hold on.

Um, okay, how to respond. Okay, so, really, let’s get to that in a moment. I just want to do one more. One more article. Okay. This one is on psychology today. This is abuse is more than just physical. Verbal abuse occurs when an individual continuously uses words as weapons to gain power or control over another individual. Verbal abuse, I didn’t think I was being abused because he didn’t hit me is a common saying, yes, it is. Many people use when undergoing different forms of abuse, it besides physical abuse. Verbal abuse occurs when an individual continuously uses words as weapons to gain power or control over another individual. The words in some form, are meant to cause emotional pain and harm. And that’s why they do it. Verbal abuse is often difficult to spot and even harder to prove because there’s no clear-cut definition because nobody’s bothering to train the frickin courts on this stuff. Don’t get me started. I think we talked about this last time just training for everybody. That would be nice. And for therapists. I can’t tell you the number of therapists that don’t understand domestic violence. The don’t understand, you know, they go into couples counseling, doing couples counseling, and they don’t understand domestic violence and I’m like, Sweet baby Jesus, you’re gonna be doing a lot of damage. So um, okay. Anyway, um, the prolonged silent treatment is a form of verbal abuse. So, it’s the flip side of it. So, the side we’re talking about is when they You know, they’re telling you all these horrible things about you in the Uuuuu guns. The flip side of that is the stonewalling the silent the silent treatment cold shoulder, you know that inflicts that lights up the same pain centers as physical pain. So basically, no matter what they do, they’re doing whatever they’re doing to intentionally inflict pain, they want those pain centers to light up, like a Roman candle. Seriously. So okay, so those are on psychology today. And so this is called abuse is more than just physical. This is by Christian Fuller, MD. The other one was called name calling, which was more geared towards dealing with bullies in school, but it still applies because you know, these people are about age four, and they’re never going to grow up. This one was called Nine consequences of name calling and it’s from very well, family. So those are that.

Okay, so dealing with a name, caller, let’s,

Kris Godinez  16:00

let’s take apart what they are doing, first of all, so when they use psychological terms, okay? They’re talking about themselves, number one, number two, they’re trying to confuse you. And they’re trying to make you think that you are the abuser so one of their favorite ones to do is they tell you you’re a psychopath, or that you’re anti-social. So, let’s talk about what those terms really mean.

What is a psychopath? The term psychopath is used to describe someone who is callous, unemotional, and morally depraved. While the term isn’t an official mental health diagnosis, it is often used in clinical and legal settings. See, this is what I don’t understand why are they using something in clinical and legal settings? But it’s not in the DSM five? Can we have some, somebody to teach stuff to the, you know, courts? That would be nice. So, you know, it’s honestly, it’s like the whoever does the DSM, the American Psychiatric Association really needs to put psychopathy in there, they do. Psychopaths happen. So more often than you would like to admit. And it just, it makes me angry that for years, this topic of abuse has been shoved under the carpets by the schools that teach psychology because oh, well, you know, we just don’t want to label and we don’t want to do this. And we do. Okay, how about you actually help people? How about you help the targets? How would you do that? Have, you know, just an off thing, why don’t you do that? So, it really makes me angry that, that is not in there. It also makes me angry that the American Psychiatric Association has not put in narcissistic abuse syndrome. You know, it’s so it’s like the survivors have something that they can look at and go yes, this is what I am going through PTSD, CPTSD? Yes, that kind of sort of covers it. But it’s specific to verbal abuse that is done over and over and over again by these frickin’ narcissists and abusers. So yeah, it just don’t get me started. I just sorry, that’s a whole tangent. It makes me angry that they’re not teaching this in the schools, and that they are not teaching this and when I say the schools, I mean schools to become a psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, etc. A social worker, these, this needs to be taught, this needs to be taught and psychopathy needs to be taught so you understand what you could potentially be dealing with when you go out in the field. Because there is nothing worse than sitting down to a couples counseling and realizing in the middle of the session, Oh, crap, this person is a complete psychopath. And narcissist and fill in the blank. And you’re sitting there going great school didn’t give me any tools. How dangerous is that? Not just for you as the practitioner, but for the client. So I’m sorry, I just went off on a total tangent. Sorry. Okay. All right. So getting back to the issue at hand.

So what is a psychopath? So well, psychology is is it will psychopathy is not a diagnosis in and of itself, many of the characteristics of psychopathy overlap with symptoms of antisocial personality disorder. Now that is in the DSM five, a broader mental health condition that is used to describe people who chronically act out and break rules, but only a small number of individuals with antisocial personality disorder are considered psychopaths. I think it’s larger than what they know, but that’s okay, because they don’t get reported. And we’ve talked about that before. Okay, so common psychopathic traits. psychopathic behavior varies greatly from one individual to another. Some are sex offenders and murderers. Others may be successful leaders, others are CEOs. Others are, you know, continually setting fires. I mean, it just don’t get me started. Okay, so it’s important to distinguish between psychopaths and people with psychopathic traits, it’s possible to exhibit several psychopathic traits with out being an actual psychopath most people with psychopathic traits don’t necessarily engage in psychopathic behavior. Only individuals with psychopathic traits who also exhibit co morbid antisocial behavior are considered to be psychopaths, so psychopathic, antisocial behavior, narcissism superficial charm, impulsivity, callous, unemotional traits, lack of guilt and lack of empathy. Oh, boy, Does this sound familiar.

Signs of a psychopaths or superficial charm so narcissists also do this.

Kris Godinez  20:37

And the further down they get dark triad which means psychopathy, narcissism, Machiavellianism, control freak, superficial term, so they’ll be like super charming super, you know, they’ll go you know, my dad used to do this he would go out into the community and he would just be super charming or as charming as he could be. And then when he came back home that’s when all hell broke loose, quite literally. So, they can be superficially charming, charming, narcissist, charming psychopath. Those ones are dangerous. Because people don’t see them. They just kind of take them at face value and they don’t see behind the mask.

Need for stimulation. Psychopaths love excitement. That’s why they’re always stirring the pot. Okay, so need for excitement need for drama need for you know, living right on the edge? Am I going to get caught or not? So, breaking the laws to them is extremely exciting. getting away with domestic violence, extremely exciting. Oh, please, seriously, they call the cops. They convince the cops that it’s the target. That’s the problem. The target goes to jail. Oh, they are getting their rocks off on that. Are you kidding me? Which is why the police need to be trained in psychopathic behavior, and in domestic violence situations, which is why the whole, Gabby Pettite got completely read wrong. You know, he was calm and cool. She was, you know, exhibiting a lot of anxiousness and nervousness, because that’s what targets of abuse do. And so, the police immediately went, Oh, well, he’s the rational one. She’s crazy. No wrong, incorrect response. When a target of abuse is confronted with a police person, they’re going to be a wreck, because a normal person would be nervous if the police comes around, okay? Psychopaths are calm, they’re cool. They’re collected. They’re charming. This is why we have such a huge problem in this country is because police departments, the courts, and some of these places teaching students are not teaching these things. And they need to, huh, sorry, I’m just so fed up with all of this, okay. Need for stimulation.

Psychological lying, pathological lying. So, they will then turn around and tell their target of abuse, “Well, you’re a pathological liar. You’re this, you’re this, you’re that.” Okay? When in fact, they’re talking about themselves. Okay. So, remember, when they’re doing the you, you, you, and they’re using psychological terms, you really have to kind of pull it apart and go, “Wait a minute, I don’t do this, but they do. Wait a minute. I don’t do this. But they do what, wait a minute. I don’t do this. But they do.” Do you see where I’m going with that?

So okay, um, manipulative. psychopaths are really good at getting other people to do what they want manipulating the police, for example. They may play on a person’s guilt while lying to get someone else to do their work for them.

Lack of remorse, they do not care. And this is so hard for targets of abuse to wrap our heads around, that abusers don’t care that they’ve hurt you. A normal person would I mean, if you if you harmed somebody, you would feel remorse, you would feel guilt, you would try to make it right. You would make amends you would do whatever you needed to do. Psychopaths don’t. They don’t even offer the amends. Or if they do, it’s very superficial. So, my dad, for example, when he would say just horrible, hateful, hurtful things. And I would be like, “Ah, I’m not putting up with this. You owe me an apology.” I’m sorry. No, you’re not. You’re sorry, you got caught. Because a real apology is oh my god, I hurt you. I am mortified. It will not happen again. What do I need to do to make this right? Narcissists and psychopaths won’t do that. They have no remorse.

Shallow effect. Psychopaths don’t show any emotions really. At least not genuine ones. They can mimic. They can mirror Okay, so they can fake being human. That’s how they walk among us is that they read the situation and then they give what they think is going to be the appropriate response. But if you’re watching them, it never reaches their eyes. It never reaches, their smiles don’t reach their eyes. sadness. Oh, the number of times I have seen in couples counseling, the abuser get caught. And then they pull out the crocodile tears. And they did all of it sounds like they were but I noticed they never needed a Kleenex. They never dabbed their eyes. They never. Yeah, they weren’t really crying. They were doing the mimicking of it. They weren’t doing a genuine real. Oh my god, this is horrible. I am really feeling they mimicked it.

Kris Godinez  25:32

So there is that. Okay, shallow effect. But what okay, they do whatever serves them, well, they might exhibit a dramatic display of feelings. Like I was just talking about, they’re usually short lived and very shallow, if real at all. For example, they may show anger if it can intimidate someone, or they might show sadness to manipulate someone, but they don’t really feel those emotions, lack of empathy. Psychopaths struggle to understand how someone else might feel afraid, sad or anxious. They don’t care. Let’s just be clear. They don’t care. It doesn’t make sense to them. They’re not able to truly read people. They’re completely indifferent to people who are suffering, even when it’s a close friend or family member. In fact, they enjoy it. They live a very parasitic, parasitic lifestyle. How are we doing on time is almost up to the questions. Okay? They live a very parasitic lifestyle psychopaths have sob stories, why they can’t get a job, why they can’t keep a job that will live off of other people. Does this sound familiar? Oh my God. Poor behavioral controls, psychopaths struggle to follow rules, laws and policies much of the time, even if they are they set out to follow the rules, they usually don’t stick to them for very long. They can be very promiscuous, they will go from one partner to another to another to another to another, constant cheaters, engage in unprotected sex, lie about their STDs, that type of thing. They use sex as a way to get what they want. They will use blackmail, using sex to get what they want.

Early behavioral problems psychopaths display behavioral problems at an early age, they may cheat skip school, vandalized misuse step substances, fires become violent, lack of realistic long-term goals. So, they want to be rich and famous, but they have not a clue how to make that happen. So, I think I talked about the one person who came and sat on my couch and demanded that I acknowledged them as the greatest rapper in history.

Kris Godinez  27:32

Yeah, and it wasn’t Tupak. So, it’s like, I’m like, Ah, okay. And then they wanted to know how to get rich and famous. And I said, Okay, well, you’re going to need to get a demo tape, you’re going to need to get an agent, you’re going to need to perform, you’re going to need to, you know, get reviews, you’re going to need to you know, and it was basically giving them the steps for how to… blew up, I should have known you wouldn’t know, you’re you, you, you, you you’re, you’re incompetent, you’re this, you’re that, you know, you’re you know, and then he started insulting my office, and I’m like, Oh, okay. And, you know, that’s the typical psychopathic behavior is demanding and narcissistic as well, which is why they start overlapping when somebody becomes down towards the end of the spectrum, all of the traits of the cluster B’s start over lapping, so you know, demanding to be rich and famous without having the work. You know, just wanting people to acknowledge them for being this great rapper without doing the legwork. You got to do the legwork. Guys. Fame does not come overnight unless you’ve inherited it somehow. So yeah, it just anyway.

Okay, impulsivity. Psychopaths respond to things according to the way they feel. They don’t spend time thinking about the potential risks and benefits of their choices. Instead, they want immediate gratification. So they may quit a job in a relationship, move to a new city, buy a new car on a whim, spend all of their savings. Yeah.

Irresponsibility promises don’t mean a thing to psychopaths. When they promise to repay a loan or sign a contract, they aren’t trustworthy, they may shrug off child support payments, get deeply in debt or forget about obligations and commitments. Psychopaths don’t expect responsibility for the problems in their lives. They see issues as being someone else’s fault and frequently play the role of the victim. They are married and have multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple partners sexually, or financially.

Criminal versatility. Psychopaths tend to view rules as suggestions. They do driving infractions, financial violations, acts of violence, anything they can get away with. So, basically, psychopath versus sociopath. Psychopaths lack a conscience and don’t feel empathy towards other they may pretend to care but very often maintain a normal facade to cover up cold hearted or even criminal behaviors whereas sociopaths may experience some limited empathy and remorse for their actions, they struggled to maintain normal behaviors and routines, and can be impulsive and overly emotional, they may recognize that their actions are wrong, but find ways to rationalize their impulsive and harmful behaviors. So I’m pretty sure that people listening to this do not fall into the psychopathy or the antisocial range of things. But what an abuser will do is project and they will project who they are, what they are doing, what they are thinking, what they are, you know, plotting to do on to the target of abuse.

Kris Godinez  30:42

So very often, when I’ve got and I swear, I will get to the questions in just a second. Very often when I when I get people coming to me after having been in or they are still in an abusive relationship. The abuser has said, You’re the narcissist, you’re a psychopath, you’re antisocial, you’re this, you’re that… Well, unless you’re breaking laws and enjoying it. No, you’re not. Unless you’re doing all of those things that I just described. No, you’re not. You know, if you’re worried about being a psychopath, if you’re worried about being narcissistic, congratulations. No, you’re not. Okay. Let’s just be clear about that.

So, psychopaths and narcissists think that being psychopathic, and narcissistic is a great thing they really do. So, they don’t understand the implications of it. So, when an abuser starts throwing around psychological terms, you really don’t want to respond, because that’s what they’re doing. They’re looking for that reactive response, so that they can then do the whole Oh, you’re the abuser. You yelled at me. So, you’re abusive. Meanwhile, they have been Poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, poke, you’re this, you’re that you, you, you, you, you, to the point where you finally just go, boom, because you’ve had enough. And now they sit back and go, Mm hmm. That’s exactly what I wanted. Oh, look, let me just get this on camera. Oh, look at that little vein pop out of your, your side of your neck. Oh, you’re the abuser. Yeah, that’s what they do. Because they’re looking for you to explode.

So here’s the thing. The problem, the problem with a lot of people coming out of or are still in abusive relationships is you’ve been groomed, you’ve been groomed to fight back don’t! Don’t! It’s not going to do any good. You’re defending yourself to someone who is committed to misunderstanding you. Let me say that, again, stop defending yourself to someone who is committed to misunderstanding you. So, they’re throwing this stuff at you, they’re throwing these psychological terms at you, to upset you, to rile you to push your buttons to make you stop believing in yourself to make you lose confidence to make you stay, let me prove to you that I’m not… you know, and then you stay and you keep trying to get those intermittent positive rewards. So, this is why they’re doing that. So, we’ve got to train ourselves, if you are leaving an abusive relationship, or if you have left an abusive relationship, stop responding, Stop, just stop, stop trying to defend yourself. It’s not going to work, not directly to them. So, what abusers love to do is they throw this stuff while you’re in the relationship because they’re trying to keep you trapped in the relationship. They want to keep you in that cycle of Let me explain. No, I’m not this. How, how could you think that? Da, da, da and it’s drama for them. Remember, they need excitement. They need to stir the pot, they need to keep stuff going. So, you got to stop explaining and you’ve got to stop correcting them. Okay. They don’t care. They don’t care. All they want to do is land that knife. They do! Closer to your heart, the better. So that’s what they want. You know, they want to land that knife right into your heart. Oh, that hurt them. Boom! Oh, that was a good one. Boom! You’re a psychopath. Boom! You’re a narcissist. Boom! You’re antisocial. Boom! Do you see where I’m going with that? They’re landing stuff to hurt you. They don’t care.. and talking to them, getting logical with them is not going to do a damn thing.

So, what oftentimes I see abusers do like I said, they come on channels like this and they gather little bits and pieces of little psychological terms that they can use, and then they turn around and start using it against their partner. Here’s a huge red flag. Love is Respect, respect is love. If there was a psychological issue going on in the relationship, a loving partner would help you get the help that you need, and you would go get the help that you need. In an abusive relationship. psychological terms are used to hurt, to harm, to cause pain, to cause confusion, sow the seeds of doubt, self-doubt, second guessing, etcetera. So, you if you’re getting a lot of these psychological terms thrown at you, I invite you to go look them up. So, I have clients all the time that come in and go, “Oh my God, you know, my spouse just told me that I’m this. Am I this?” Great, let’s pull up the DSM five, let’s go to the Mayo Clinic. Let’s you know, let’s see if you are this diagnosises. Do you intentionally harm people? Oh, no. Oh, or do you have a conscience? Oh, yeah, you feel guilty when things happen. Okay, guess what, you’re not that.

Kris Godinez  35:36

But they want you to think that because remember, narcissists want you to be as morally, emotionally bankrupt as they are. They do. And so that’s why they project. But we have got to stop giving them any energy.

So, when they start throwing terms, stop! Gray rock, gray rock, and then get out of that situation as quickly as you possibly can get out of that room as quickly as you can get off the phone as quickly as you can stop responding to the texts. So once you leave the relationship, I know I’ve gone way over I will get to the questions… once you leave the relationship and this is why I love Suzanna Quintana, she’ll help you figure out what to respond to when the narcissist or the abuser, the psychopath, whoever, whatever, starts throwing all these terms at you, or starts, you know, a novel on text or email, and expects you to respond to everything. Once you’re divorced from them, the only thing you need to respond to is things that have to do with divorce decree, if it’s not settled yet, or if you’re in a custody battle, things that have to do with the kid. That’s it, you are under no legal obligation to respond to any thing and they love to…. Let’s see if I can hook them. Let’s see if I can hook them. Let’s see if I can hook them. So don’t respond. Don’t respond. You don’t owe them a response. But they’ve trained us to think that we do. So, it’s really important to get to that point where you start writing this stuff down. What are they calling you? What are they saying? Great, let’s go look it up. Mayo Clinic, go look it up on the Mayo Clinic, Mayo Clinic, psychopathy, Mayo Clinic narcissism, Mayo Clinic this, Mayo Clinic that, or you can look it up in DSM five. So, you know, you start looking this stuff up. And then you start asking yourself, Do I do this? You know, and I had to go through the list of antisocial with a client recently because the abuser, you know, said it with enough confidence that the abused went Oh, is that me? Am I doing that? Oh my god, you know, and I was like, Okay, are you doing this? Or no? Are you doing this? No. Are you doing this? No. Are you doing that? You know, all through the nine criteria? No, no, no, I don’t do any of those. Well, congratulations. You’re not antisocial. You’re not a psychopath.

I hate abusers, I really do. They just, they’re just,,, don’t get me started. And it angers me that the courts don’t understand this stuff. It angers me that the police don’t understand this stuff and angers me that we really should be having a social worker go out on these domestic violence calls, somebody trained in how a psychopath acts when police are involved. Because the calm one I can guarantee you is probably the abuser. So the one that’s freaked out is probably the abused.

So anyway. So yeah, so psychological terms are used to destroy your confidence to make you question yourself and more importantly, to keep you reengaged in the constant defending yourself and trying to prove yourself to this person, they are committed to not understanding you, they are committed to harming you. And they basically want us dead. So um, okay, so, alright, so if they start calling you psychological terms, if they start saying you’re a psychopath, you’re antisocial, you’re depressed, you’re… you, you, you, you, you guns, go look it up. Go look it up. But do look it up from a reputable site, like Mayo Clinic, okay or go directly to the DSM five, I think the DSM five is now up on the internet. So, because it’s old enough, so um, anyway, do that and then start asking is do I do this behavior? No, I don’t do I do this behavior? No, I don’t Oh, well, guess what? I’m not that moon in a, you know what I’m saying that’s

Don’t get me started. I just I just despise abusers, they make me very angry. So um, so there’s one way to combat that. The other thing is you gray rock, you don’t engage, don’t engage, don’t engage. You do not want to do reactive abuse, or what they’ll call abuse. So, a reactive response to abuse, you then rage at them or you get angry at them and they’re going to play the victim. And they’re going to say you’re the abuser. So, you want to stop giving them that narcissistic supply, because that’s what they’re looking for. That’s what they’re living for. So, anyway, let’s go to the question. So, I hope I hope that answered the question on when they start throwing around psychological terms and the fact that you know, you’re not as psychopath if you’re if you’re staying through this whole thing, you’re not a psychopath, you’re not antisocial. Because psychopaths have the, you know, attention span of a gnat if it doesn’t have to do with them, or if it’s not something that’s interesting to them or getting their little, you know, rocks off. So, um, so yeah, so just gray rock, walk away, write it out. But remember, if you’ve got a psychopath in your life or an abuser in your life, make sure your journals are somewhere where they can’t get to them. Make sure they’re at work, make sure you know in and look stuff up at work so that you can start you know, educating yourself and realizing no, you’re not this. No, you’re not. You know, if you’re working on yourself, you’re not because psychopaths, narcissists, they don’t work on themselves. They don’t! They don’t care.

So alright, let’s get to the questions. Do narcissists have no real friends, because they don’t see people as human, but as objects to be used for their own benefit? Yeah, yeah, they don’t. They don’t they don’t have real friends. They’ll Okay, let’s be clear about this. narcissist will collect flying monkeys, okay. And flying monkeys are one of two things. They are either minor narcissist themselves, and they’re enjoying the drama that the main abuser brings, or they’re ignorant, and they don’t understand that this person is abusive. I mean, because how many times have we told our stories? And people went, Oh, no. Somebody couldn’t act like that. Well, yeah, Mother Clucker! They could, they could and they do. So, you know, flying monkeys are either people that don’t understand the level of abuse the level of depravity that these people have, or they are minor narcissists themselves and no, narcissists don’t have friends. Narcissists don’t socialize. Abusers don’t have real, genuine friends, they’ve got associates, they got people who can do things for them. So again, if you can use, if the narcissist can use you, then you have no more meaning to them than this cup, or a pen. I don’t know where my pen went. So, this cup, you know what I’m sayin’? So, it’s really, the only value we have to a narcissist is what we can do for them. That’s really the only value we have to them. They don’t otherwise we don’t exist. So, and it’s sad and it’s pathetic and it’s angering and everything else.

Um, is it common that a child feels that their narc parent is not a real parent. And that this parent doesn’t belong in their lives. I felt this since I was little, oh my God, that my narc mom was not my real mom? Yes. Oh my God. So, where’s my book? Where’d my book go? Hang on, hang on. When I was talking about my childhood, What’s Wrong with Your Dad? I used to say that my real parents were kidnapped by aliens, and that these were aliens that had replaced them. I know? How sad is that? Really? So yeah, when we’re little kids, we know something is wrong. We do and we kind of feel like this person is an alien. I mean, I really did. I really felt like my dad and my mom were aliens, less so my mom, but mostly my dad, but my mom too. And so, we get this sense of unreality. And we get this sense of how in the world could they be my parents because they’re so heinous. You know, they don’t do what normal parents do it. My grandmother certainly wasn’t, on my mom’s side certainly wasn’t a normal grandmother. She was the furthest thing you could get from the kind, baking cookies, having fun, you know, knitting, grandma. I mean, she was just heinous. She was a narcissist through and through. And yeah, we get this sense of this isn’t right. This. This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife. It’s like, we do we get that sorry, I’m quoting Talking Heads.

Kris Godinez  44:05

We get that sense of this isn’t real. This isn’t right. These people can’t be my parents. And yes, when I was a little kid, I would say they’re aliens. The aliens kidnapped them, you know, aliens, aliens kidnapped them. And they’re these are replacements sent from some alien civilization because they clearly don’t know how to behave. I mean, seriously. Hand to heart, swear to God, that is what I felt. Because it’s like, they have to be aliens, because they don’t know how to behave. That would seriously… that was my thinking. And so yeah, when we’re little kids, we do get that, you know, well, there’s got to be an explanation for why they’re so completely bonkers, you know? And so yeah, we come up with whatever explanation makes sense. And so, when sometimes it’s like, okay, they must not be my real parent. They’re aliens. I was adopted. We start coming up with reasons why these parents are not behaving like healthy normal parents. So yeah, that is a very common thing. And a lot of kids grew up feeling like okay, this, they don’t belong in my life. What is the deal? Okay, so yeah, don’t make yourself wrong. It’s a normal thought and really, the way to work through that, and the way that I worked through it, obviously, I went through therapy. And it was like, yeah, no, they were, they were really my parents. And they’re just batshimomo, crazy. You know what I’m saying? And you just kind of have to really reinforce that. It’s like, yeah, no, they’re not aliens. They act like aliens. But they’re not aliens. They’re just crazy. There’s like, no big, no big, no big thing. It’s just, you know, well, it’s a big thing. But it’s like, it’s yeah, they’re just crazy. And working through it and recognizing it’s them, not you. You know, it’s like, they’re crazy. You’re okay. They’re crazy. You’re okay. That’s not the way to behave when you’re a parent. That kind of thing. So yeah, totally common, totally normal, don’t freak out, do start working through it. So I would say work on CPTSD From Surviving To Thriving by Pete Walker for dealing with the parents, also The Inner Child Workbook by Katherine Taylor, also for dealing with stuff in childhood. And if you can’t get the Katherine Taylor book, some people have been telling me it’s out of print. If you cannot get the Katherine Taylor book, just find a book on inner child work, whichever works for you, and start working it because that’s going to help you peel the layers of the onion. So yeah.

Do narcs, malignant and covert, who are married stay married. Well, they can. They can. The most common. The most common matching is a narcissist with a borderline because they will eat the borderline for lunch, and it’s a horrible thing to see. So, the most common pairing is a narcissist with a borderline because they can just poke at the borderline and the borderline will come unglued and give them all the narcissistic supply they could ever use. So that’s the most common pairing. The second most common pairing is, obviously people who are empathic because again, they poke they get the response. The third most common pairing is a narcissist, an overt narcissist with the covert narcissist. And these this pairing is a match made in hell, in that it’s hell for the ex. So what will end up happening is an overt narcissist will get together with a covert narcissist, you know, divorce this other person over here and remember that it could be either male or female doesn’t matter. So, they’ll you know, divorced this person over here who is sane and then these two, pair up and do the triangle. You know, the hero, the villain, the victim. So, the covert one is the victim. This one is the hero and you’re the villain. And they will keep… Lord, the covert narcissist in a situation like that during a custody battle will insist that the child or children called them mom or dad, will keep the custody battle going kind of thing. They’ll do things to create parental alienation. They will keep things roiled you know, nothing is ever calm, nothing is ever good. They’ll punish the kid, they’ll, you know, all sorts of stuff. Play the victim, you know, I’m the beleaguered step parent, which in some cases, you know, if the person is a normal person, yes, but

Kris Godinez  48:25

another case is if there are covert narcissist, no, they’re the ones causing the problems. So, what they’ll do is, they’ll get with an overt narcissist, and they will just try to eat the sane parent alive, that got away. Because think about it, it’s great narcissistic supply for them. And they don’t want to lose the, the villain over here because then they would have to look at each other. And that’s usually when they blow up is when the… finally the sane parent is able to step away. And you know, the kid is safe and step away and the kids in therapy and things are good. And now these two have nothing to continue going after. So, this is why I tell people if you are in a custody battle, this is a marathon, not a sprint. This is gonna last until the kid turns 18 and sometimes beyond. You know so until the kid is able to consistently get away from the abuser consistently be in therapy. Yeah, this, this, these two or this one over here is going to constantly be poke, poke, poke, poke at anything they can, because remember if it’s too quiet, well now they’re going to have to turn on each other. So yep, that’s, that’s a common one it is.

Do narcs see life as a theater play? Yes, they do. They seem to be pretending all their life to be something they’re not Yes, absolutely. Well, they have to because what do they have? They don’t have emotions. They don’t have genuine feelings. They don’t love. They don’t you know, not in the way that you and I understand love. They don’t care, they don’t have a passion. And usually passions involve altruism, you know, it usually involves helping other people or helping animals Betty White. God, I love that woman. Anyway. Um, so also, if you want to honor Betty White, go down, donate to a no kill shelter or something her birthday is on the 17th of January. So that’s what I plan on doing. So, anyway, um, you know, altruistic helping, healing, you know, helping to grow, helping to help, you know, that kind of, they don’t feel that they don’t enjoy it. They don’t, because what is it doing for them? You know, it’s not about them. So, what is it doing for them? You know, that kind of thing. So, um, yeah, it is like they’re acting all the time. It really is. And, and it’s like, they’re playing a role all the time. Because they’re not real, they’re not genuine. And I think that is the most heartbreaking thing that targets of abuse come to realize is that this person that you thought you knew, that you thought you loved, that you thought was your soulmate, was not real. They were mirroring you back to you. And they were mirroring what they thought you wanted, and this person never existed, ever. And it’s a grieving process. And it’s heartbreaking when you see that, and when you’re just like, Jeez Louise, there’s so much it’s so intelligent. So funny. So, this so that, and yet, they’re throwing their life away being fake. Wow. Okay, cool. Bye. You know, it is it’s sad. It’s a grieving process. And it’s hard for us to wrap our heads around that this person that we invested so much time in, and that we thought we knew, and we thought we loved turned out to be a complete illusion wasn’t real, not genuine, they were acting, they were mirroring us back to us. And as soon as it was safe, the mask slipped, and the real them came out. And that’s the real them. And that’s the really hard thing to wrap our heads around. Is that that horrible, awful, terrible, abusive person, that’s the real them. Not the love bombing. That and it’s sad. So, grieving, write and burn letters, write and burn letters, that’s the best way to deal with it. Allow yourself to grieve, but makes sure that you keep reminding yourself of what they did to, don’t get stuck in the whole…. Oh, but they were so great. When they were this way, why can’t I have that back, because it’s not real. That’s why you can’t have it back. They can maintain it for a very small amount of time, you know, and then the mask slips and then it starts all over again. The more psychopathic they are, the longer they can maintain that love bombing thing. So that’s another thing to think about.

Kris Godinez  52:55

Okay, let’s go to the next question. Um, I’m using EMDR. With very, very interesting positive results.

Is it good for an abuse that went on for decades to narcs in my family? Yes. EMDR is really great. It really is. It’s a great modality. So, if talk therapy is not working, if you are not getting results, I don’t want to say fast enough. But if you’re not getting the results you really want, what you can do is you can use EMDR or EFT Emotional Freedom therapy. That’s the tapping stuff that is very helpful with trauma. EMDR is extremely helpful with trauma. And you can couple that with talk therapy. So doing either one of those modalities with talk therapy can be very, very helpful. Absolutely. Or they’re good on their own, you know, and it’s really just important to, um, you know, try it, you know, it’s like, not every modality is going to work for every person. So that’s why I’m saying look up to see what your practitioner is using. If that, if CBT is not working and you think EMDR will do it, do it or if you think EFT will do it, Absofreakinglutely! Do it! And then sometimes people find that EMDR really gets them to a level and then they’re like, I still need to talk about it. So, let’s go do talk therapy in conjunction with EMDR. So yeah, it just, it depends on what works for you. Alright, bunnies, that’s it. We’re done. My voice is going. So we’re gonna call it good for tonight. So tonight, today, whatever, be good to each other. Drink plenty of water, eat healthy foods. Go get some exercise. All right, you guys be good. I’ll talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Chris godinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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