Have you ever wondered why some people just cannot make a decision without asking everyone and anyone? What causes a person not to trust their own judgment? Have you ever met someone who just wanted to be taken care of to the point of clinginess? That would be someone with a dependent personality.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

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Oh, okay. So, as you may notice, the background is a little different. So, John and I are doing our first attempt at Snowbirding, so we’re going to see how it goes this summer traveling with Okay, I’m going to switch that around where the puppies can you see the puppies, there’s the puppies. So, there’s Lucky and there’s Moana. So, we’re, we’re traveling with the puppies. So that is very exciting, very nerve-wracking. They’re actually really good travelers. I’ve been very, very fortunate and lucky with these dogs, literally. So anyway, that is that we’re up in Boise right now visiting the kids. And then, we are going to head over to Portland for the meet-and-greet. So, there are still tickets available. Andy, please leave that in. There are still tickets available on krisgodinez.com. So go to krisgodinez.com and get your tickets for the Portland meet-and-greet, which will be Sunday, July 2, between two and four. The location will be given to you once your ticket is purchased. So, there is that.

Hello, everybody.

So current event for today. All I can say is, WTF, Russia? Seriously, what is going on? John. So last night when we got into the hotel, John and I turned on the news, and John’s like, oh, there’s a coup, and I’m like, Oh, this could be bad or good? I don’t know. But all I can say is Oh, hi guys. Why are you all trying to come into the camera view? Hello. My co-host Lucky, my other co-host.  Moana. Anyway, so John and I were both… John is sitting there laughing. Both John and I were both like what is going on? Because we started talking about it. So, the Wagner group is a mercenary group. They’re paid mercenaries, meaning somebody pays them to do what they do. So, for them to turn on Putin is kind of like, well, who’s paying them what’s going on? And then to do like a failed coup kind of kind of go in but not really go in. So, I’m not quite sure I understand what exactly that is all about. And then they said, Oh, well, we brokered a peace deal, and the guy is going to Belarus to live. So, to this point, what has happened in Russia is anyone who is opposed to Putin, anyone, you know, political rivals, generals, you know, diplomats, whatever, anybody who said anything bad about Putin, this guy had said a lot of bad things about Putin, call him like granddaddy, and, you know, basically saying he was old and frail and didn’t know what he was doing. Left out crazy, but yes. But anyway, so everyone who has opposed him has ended up dead, and it’s always been by suicide, and I put that in bunny ears because it’s like, oh, had six stab wounds. 23 bullet holes fell out of hermetically sealed window… was suicide. That’s seriously, that’s what’s been happening.

So, I’m kind of like, how was A. How was this guy still alive? B. What is the deal was sending him to Belarus? See, even if it was staged? What does that serve for Putin? Cuz all it does is make him look bad and weak. I don’t like Putin. I think he’s a megalomaniac. I think he’s insane. Um, that’s just my personal opinion. That is not a diagnosis or a professional opinion. Yeah. Anyway, um, so there’s that. So that is my current event for the day because I’m trying to figure out what the heck is going on. It’s like. This doesn’t… none of this makes sense. And it stinks to high hell because it’s like an attempted coup that didn’t go all the way through. Most people don’t start a coup unless they are assured of winning it. What does that sound like? Right? So, they usually don’t start something unless they’re assured of winning it. And then for it to be backed off and now this guy is living in Belarus when everyone else who’s ever done anything even remotely, not even to the extent that he did verbally about Putin, was killed. I’m just… something’s off. Something is way, way, way off. And I’m suspicious because Putin has been rattling his saber at the Ukraine, rattling a saber at the United States going, Oh, you guys are sending drones, and I’m like, your own guys are like turning against you. So anyway, that is my WTF current event for the day. Anyway, as Yeah, it was a little it was a little nerve-wracking John and I were like, well, what’s going to happen and you know, nothing yet. So anyway, there’s that.  Okay, I just It stinks something something we’re not getting the whole story. I don’t know what’s going on. But it just it stinks. So anyway, there’s that.

Okay, so today we are talking about Dependent Personality Disorder. Hold on a second, I want to get to my other phone where I had loaded. Okay. So, the question was, why are some people incredibly dependent, you know, beyond codependency? So, like, just, you know, can’t make a decision, have to ask everybody’s opinion, doubts themselves to the core, needs to be with somebody all the time. So, like they get out of a relationship, boom, they immediately get into another relationship. So Dependent Personality Disorder, this is from the Mayo Clinic, excessive dependence on others and feeling the need to be taken care of, submissive or clingy behaviors towards others, fear of having to provide self-care, or fend for yourself if left alone, lack of self-confidence, requiring excessive advice and reassurance from others to make even small decisions. Difficulty starting or doing new, doing projects on your own due to lack of self-confidence. Difficulty disagreeing with others and fearing disapproval, tolerance of poor or abusive treatment, even when other options are available. An urgent need to start a new relationship when a close one has ended. So yeah, I think we’re going to have to move it looks like we’re going to have a little league team in here pretty soon. We got some time. Okay. Um, so anyway, so that is, that’s what Dependent Personality Disorder is.

So, what causes it? So, I know a lot of survivors of abuse have got that codependency. And that dependence, you know, clinging, meaning don’t want to be alone. So basically, what causes that is trauma in childhood. So usually, when you have an abusive parent, or you have a parent that absolutely refuses to allow you to make decisions. So, like, they take over everything. Remember how we talked about how narcissistic parents take over every decision, the child is never allowed to make a decision. Never allowed to make their own choice. Or if they do, they get made wrong. They get put down. They get told they’re bad and wrong and stupid. And this, that, and the other thing. So, it boils down to the person that has Dependent Personality Disorder usually ends up being codependent. They usually come from some history of having been in an abusive situation where you’re not either not allowed to make decisions or the decisions that you made were made fun of. So, you’re afraid of making a decision? Because if you make the wrong one, what if? So, it’s in with the anxiety disorders. It’s really in with the anxiety disorders. So, it is born of a fear. Please go away be stuck landing on my phone. So, it is, it is born of a fear of making the wrong decision. It is born of the fear of being made wrong, perfectionism, etc., etc., etc. So, it’s also connected directly to self-esteem and the bee is back.

Kris Godinez  09:12

And it’s gone now. I love nature. I’m actually I do I just don’t like these. I do like these. I just don’t like these things stinging. So anyway, um, it’s born of the fear of making the wrong choice. And so dependent people are incredibly clingy. They have this basic assumption that they cannot, not that they, you know, won’t so much, but that they literally cannot take care of themselves. Like I can’t do it. Now. I know the question that’s coming is that oh my gosh, my elderly narcissist does that. Okay, yes, narcissists do play the victim, narcissists do play the, you know, oh, I’m helpless. You have to do it for me. You have to think for me. You have done everything for me. The motivation is different. When a narcissist does something like that, it’s a power and control issue. When somebody who’s dependent personality disorder does that, it’s because they truly believe that they cannot do the right thing. Like they’re incompetent. That’s literally their basic assumption is that they cannot do anything right. They’re incompetent. And they’re making the wrong choice. So, they ask everybody around them. Well, what do you think about this? And should I do this? Or what do you think about that so they come off as very clingy. They come off as very not knowing what they’re doing, constantly needing reassurance. Some of these traits are in with narcissism. But it’s different in that the motivation is different. So, we’ve got all of these things going on, we’ve got this fear of making the wrong choice. We’ve got perhaps a history of abuse in our, in our past, we’ve got this perfectionism. Oh, my gosh, I’ve got to make the right choice. It’s got to be the right thing. I got to make sure it’s the right choice. I’m going to ask everybody in their dog what, what they think and what I should do. And this that new thing, or, and we’ve got this, oh, my god, I can’t be alone. I can’t be alone. I can’t be alone. I can’t. I can’t, I’ve got to have, I’ve got to have a partner, I’ve got to have it well, so let’s talk about why a lot of people that come out of abuse do that. It is self-esteem. Okay.

So, people who love themselves, let me say this, again, people who love themselves enjoy, actually enjoy their own company. Seriously. Seriously, they don’t need a relationship, want a relationship? Sure. Need a relationship? No. So people that are struggling with self-esteem, generally, are the ones that are like, I’ve got to have a girlfriend, I’ve got to have a boyfriend, I’ve got to be in a relationship. Are you sure you want him chewing on that stick, John? Okay. Um, so you know, I’ve got it, I’ve got to be in a relationship, I’ve got to be, you know, that type of thing. So, they’re afraid of being alone. They don’t like what they think. They don’t. They need the distraction of what’s going on up here. And generally, when we’ve been raised by abusive parents is our internal dialogue is nasty. I mean, it is nasty. It’s not nice. The internal critic is like, on steroids, and just vicious and cruel and mean. And so, a lot of people look for an external validation in order to make themselves feel better and a distraction so that they’re not having to deal with all the shame that gets shoved into our space. And that goes for people that are dependent. People who are dependent often have a lot of shame. And they have a lot of fear and a lot of distrust and a lot of…. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s really not um, what are you doing? It’s really a matter of working on your self-esteem, work on your self-esteem for so many reasons.

So, dependent personality disordered people have a hard time believing that they can make the right decision and that they are competent, and that they know what they’re doing. So, when you work on your self-esteem, confidence is one of the things to work on. Certainty.  Judge not yourself. That’s the other thing is that we are so mean to ourselves, be certain that you know what you’re doing, and mirror work is going to play into this. So, when we are dependent, when we are constantly asking other people’s opinion and constantly second guessing ourselves and not able to be alone, that is the time to be alone. And that is the time to work on your self-esteem. And to do the mirror work. The Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi is perfect. Mirror work. When you’re doing the mirror work, what you’re going to do is you’re going to be Hi. Good to see you. Have a great day. You know what? You do know what you’re doing. It’s okay for you to make decisions, right or wrong. How do we learn? Sometimes we learn by making mistakes. Mistakes can be corrected. Okay. But when we’re with an abuser, oh my god, we better be perfect. Oh my god, we better have the right answer. Oh my god, we better… do you see where I’m going with that. So, we quickly learned that it’s not okay to be wrong. Because for the narcissist, it’s not okay. For them to be wrong. Does this sound familiar? So yeah, narcissists can’t stand it again, interfering in a child’s natural development. Children learn from falling down. They learn from mistakes. That’s how we all learn, but a narcissist interferes with them and shames them for falling down or shames them for making a mistake. And then the kids quickly learns, Oh, I better not make another mistake. I better not. I should, you know. And then the thoughts up here start getting nastier and nastier and nastier. And then the desire to not be alone gets stronger and stronger and stronger, so that there is a distraction so that you’re not dealing with all of this.

So Dependent Personality Disorder really sets us up for codependency. It sets us up to be low self-esteem. Absolutely. It is driven by low self-esteem. And it makes us what’s the word I’m looking for? It really does take our power away because we hand our power off to other people going well, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think will tell me what I should do? Tell me what I should do. You know that kind of thing. Co-dependent people come off as very clingy. And it’s again; it’s not because of like, say, for example, borderlines can be very clingy. But this is because they want somebody to love them. borderlines wants somebody to love them. But it’s not like a manipulative thing. It’s more of a I need reassurance thing if that makes any sort of sense. So anyway, that guy’s that is. Hi, hi Lucky. Are you? Thank you.

Kris Godinez  16:26

That is what I know about codependent personality disorder. So, it is not one of the cluster B’s; I think it’s one of the cluster C’s. So, it is in with the avoidant personality disorder, Dependent Personality Disorder, and all of that good stuff. So yeah, so really, the way to work on getting rid of avoidant or avoidant Dependent Personality Disorder is to work on your self-esteem. First of all, get with a good trauma therapist because a lot of these personality disorders, except for narcissism, are rooted and antisocial are rooted in abuse, they’re rooted in traumas. Something happened. So, somebody abused or made wrong or put down or controlled or manipulated to the point where the child no longer felt capable, or able to make a decision or confident making a decision. So, get with a good trauma therapist. Now somebody had asked me on modalities for this, I would say EMDR CBT. And usually, EMDR, in conjunction with CBT, would be the best because now you’ve got the talk therapy going plus the EMDR. I would also suggest for lots of work. I would also suggest EFT, that’s the Emotional Freedom Technique. That’s the tapping. So, but do you’re going to have to confront the childhood stuff. Yeah, not just trauma-informed? Absolutely. 110%, you do not want a therapist that’s trauma-informed, you need a therapist that knows they’re a hole from a hole in the ground. They need to know trauma inside and out, you know, and also with an EMDR therapist, and with any modality, please, please, please interview your therapist before you go in to see them in look at the reviews. Because here’s the thing, a lot of dicey, not really ethical therapists will say, Oh, I know EMDR. And it turns out they had a weekend seminar in it. No, you don’t know EMDR, it would need to be a long-term program where you’ve really worked on that’s your focus. So also, that you want to watch out for therapists that have multiple modalities now, do I do eclectic when I need to? You bet I know enough about the eclectic stuff. So, like, say, for example, I had this one client that was absolutely having an existential crisis. And CBT was not working. So we went into existentialism, and that worked for him. And so that’s what I did with him. But that’s not my forte.

That’s not what I’m super, super, super good at what I’m super, super, super good at is CBT. So, you don’t want somebody who’s got like, Oh, I do EFT and EMDR and CBT. And does that the other thing and bla bla bla bla bla, no, you know, it’s good to have knowledge of all of those. But what’s your focus? What is your what is the one you’re really good at? So, make sure that they’re not just that they don’t just have a certificate that they actually that’s their main training. And that goes for basically any modality, so DBT, same thing. So, all right, where was I? Saying something with trauma therapy. So, it’s going to be a challenge, working through the trauma, because part of all of the pretzels that people with Dependent Personality Disorder put themselves through is to avoid dealing with the thoughts that are mean and nasty and vicious. So, the other thing you’re going to want to do is get CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, why I know I keep harping on this, but here’s the reason why you’re going to want to put back onto the abuser, all the shame, all the blame all the anger, all the guilt, all the, you can’t do it, etc., etc., etc. And I’m not kidding you. It really does help in the healing process. So, what you’re going to do is you’re going to write a letter to your abuser or to your family of origin or who or teacher, professor, I don’t know, whoever told you, you couldn’t do it. Whoever said, Oh, you’re, you don’t know what you’re doing. You can’t do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna write them a letter, and you’re basically gonna go dear whoever, here’s the truth, I do know what I’m doing. Thanks for playing go pound sand, etc., etc., etc. And you’re gonna take your power back, and you’re going to tell them you don’t believe them. I don’t believe you anymore. You lied. You lied to me. You lied to me about who I am. You lied to me about what I can do. And guess what? I now trust my gut, I know what I am doing. I know who I am. And you don’t get to tell me who I am. You just don’t. So, you’re going to do that. You’re going to tell them to go pound sand with both barrels. And then you’re going to take it out to the barbecue, or you’re going to bring it into your therapist, whatever you want to do. So, you could take it to your therapist, and you could read it out loud and have the therapist help you go through it. Or you can take it out to the barbecue; you can read it out loud once and then burn it and let it go. You know what I’m saying? So there that is. So that will help with the, the dependency and it’s taking your power back. That’s really important.

So, the other thing, too, is, and that’s why I’m saying CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving is so important because it helps you work on all of that stuff. And I know that people are always like, I don’t want to write a letter, I don’t want to think about it, I don’t want to deal with it. Well, here’s the deal, you’re going to deal with it consciously. Which is painful, yeah, to be sure. Or you’re going to end up dealing with it unconsciously. Which is even more painful because you’re acting out. And you’re doing behaviors that you don’t understand. And you’re going to be self-sabotaging. And you’re going to be hurting yourself and the people who love you. So, it’s best to do it consciously. It’s best to take your power back consciously and just be like, Nope, this is what I’m going to do. This is how I’m gonna work on myself, etc., etc., etc. So anyway, those are the two things that I can think of to help with the Dependent Personality Disorder. Doing the mirror work is hugely important. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, it’s okay for you to make decisions, baby steps, because I can guarantee you that as soon as you say it’s okay for me to make decisions, that little one inside of you is going to have a fit. The little one inside of you is just suddenly going to go oh my god, oh my God, oh, my God, oh, my god, I can’t do this. I can’t do this. I can’t do this.

You know, yeah, you can, you can do this. So, you basically are going to challenge those mistaken thoughts and those mistaken beliefs. And you’re going to give yourself permission to make decisions. Give yourself permission to not ask 20 million people if you’re doing the right thing. So that is hugely important. So, it’s a multipronged? What’s the word I’m looking for? It’s a multi-pronged approach. It’s like, you’ve got to work on the thoughts and the belief, you got to work on the emotions. You’ve got to work on the inner child, inner child workbook by Katherine Taylor. How old were you? And this is important. When your caregiver started shaming you for whatever decisions you made, how old were you? Because that’s how old you are as an adult. So, the inner child running the show, when you find yourself being clingy, when you find yourself not being able to make a decision, when you’re terrified of making a decision when you’re looking for comfort, when you’re choosing to not be by yourself and basically jumping right back into another relationship. That’s how old you are. So that little one, instead of being punished and made wrong, really needs to be loved, and talk to and comforted and told that it’s okay. And guess what, they don’t need a relationship. They need a relationship with themselves and to start working on self-love, self-approval, self-validation, self-acknowledgment. I see you; I hear you. I believe you. And you know what you’re doing, and it’s okay for you to make a decision. It’s okay for you to be alone for a little while, a little while. So, if you’ll notice, when people who are abused get out of a relationship, they want to dive right back into another relationship because the inner child is the one running the show. It’s being dependent, that saying, This alone is going to last forever, that’s really young, that’s a really young age to be thinking at. Does that make sense? Because little one’s little ones don’t have the concept of time. Time to them is like forever, right? As you get older, you know, your concept of time changes, but to a little one, it’s like, oh, it’s gonna be forever, it’s gonna be forever.

Kris Godinez  25:20

And so, then they grasp on to whoever this happens to be around them. And usually, unfortunately, it’s usually another abuser. Why? Because their picker is broken, and they haven’t done the work, you got to do the work. If you’ve got Dependent Personality Disorder, avoidant personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, you got to do the work. You got to do the work, that is the only thing that is gonna get you from point A to point Z, where you want to be. So that is super important. Okay, what else can I tell you guys about Dependent Personality Disorder, they’re kind of difficult to be around because they are so clingy and in need of validation all the time. Which sounds like narcissism with the needing validation all the time. But it’s different. Again, the motivation is completely different. The narcissist is looking for an ego hit. The person with Dependent Personality Disorder is simply looking to be validated. Period. That’s it. There’s no other intent there. So, again, it’s all in what is the intent. What is the intent? What is what is the intention of this? So? Okay, I think that’s it.

Kris Godinez  26:42

Shall we hit the questions, John? Okay. Okay.

I’m a new mom, less than a week old, less than a week old. I’m really confused how my mother treated me so poorly. I’m really angry and the trauma is hitting like, it’s brand new. What do I do? Okay. So, you’re really confused about why your mom treated you so poorly. You’re really angry. And you’re you need to know what to do. All right. So, when we have kids, it triggers us from when we were kids, and it brings up all of the trauma from that point in time, I strongly suggest that you get a good trauma therapist. So, when our caregiver treats us poorly, it’s confusing. It is because we’re constantly told by society, we’re constantly told by, you know, friends and family, oh, but they’re your mother. Oh, well, but no, they’ll come through, oh, well, no, they’ll take care of you. And then they don’t. And so, it’s that cognitive dissonance. It’s kind of like, well, they’re supposed to be loving and kind and caring, and they weren’t, and they continue to not be. So, what the heck? So, it’s bringing up all of the trauma you went through as a kid every single time a client of mine has their child go hit an age that where they were abused, and boy, it triggers them like nobody’s business. So, it’s a really good idea to get with a good trauma therapist, journal, write it out. So, it’s going to be a write-and-burn. If your mom is still in your life and is still abusive, take a look at going no contact. Being angry again, you’re going through all sorts of hormones, too. And something to watch out for is postpartum. So, and that is something to keep an eye on. So, it’s a week, you know, the hormones are up and down, your emotions are going to be up and down. That’s kind of normal. But if it’s specific to your mom wasn’t nice to you. There was abuse going on, and you’re getting triggered, then yeah, you want to seek out a trauma therapist to work on that; not trauma-informed trauma knows what they’re doing therapist, so yeah, for sure. Okay.

Kris Godinez  28:56

Does a narcissist make herself dependent on others on purpose for her own advantage, and then later is truly dependent as they forget how to do life by themselves? Yes, it is absolutely 100% on purpose 110%, And they don’t forget how to do it for themselves. They don’t they know what to do. This is all a game. This is a game. They deserve an Academy Award-winning statue because it’s all a game. So yes, they are absolutely. It’s a power and control issue. So, when a narcissist does the dependent stuff, it’s the learned helplessness, okay? And they sometimes pass that on to their kids, and sometimes people with personality Dependent Personality Disorder also have learned helplessness. The good news here is if it’s learned, it can be unlearned, and it can be replaced with healthier behavior. So learned helplessness is I can’t, you’ll have to think for me. I didn’t know when I’m bull-tinky they know exactly what to do. They know how to do all this stuff. They do. They absolutely do. They get off on the powerplay of making people do it for them. They do, and then as they get older as they turn into collapsed narcissists. Like I said, they’re the ones in the nursing homes, snapping their fingers at the staff and demanding that they service them and, you know, pay attention to them and this than the other because I can’t do it myself. But yeah, you could. And, in fact, the more stuff you do for yourself as you age, the better off you’re going to be. But narcissists, you know what’s funny, narcissists never do that. What they do is they will sit on that couch, they will sit in that reclining chair, or whatever it is, and they will literally start rotting. And they’ll do whatever, so yeah, it’s absolutely they want people to wait on them hand and foot. My grandmother on my mother’s side was an absolute narcissist. Are you kidding me? And she was perfectly capable of taking care of herself. So happy hi babies look at you are pretty. So, she absolutely was capable of taking care of herself. She chose not to. And, you know, and it her body started. Deteriorating because she wasn’t exercising. She wasn’t walking. She wasn’t taking care of herself. She wasn’t doing anything intellectual. She wasn’t, you know, stimulating her mind. She wasn’t. She just wanted to be felt sorry for. Oops, got a leaf on you. Hold on, buddy. Let me get that leaf off. There we go. So, um, thank you. So yeah, so yeah, they absolutely they absolutely do, but do they know how to take care of them? Yeah. If the rubber met the road, right? I think that’s the right term. Sometimes I say these terms. I’m like, did I say the right one? Or did I mix two together? Anyway, um, if it really came down to it brass tacks, if it came down to brass tacks, they would know what to do to take care of themselves. They’re. They’re acting. Absolutely. Okay. Next question.

Kris Godinez  32:03

Do narcissists lie about their experiences and past? Like, they might say that they were abused in order to justify their behavior. Oh, god, yes. And do they even know their own behavior? Okay, narcissists absolutely lie about their past, how many times have we heard about, especially politicians lying about military service, pretending to be heroes, etc., etc., etc? Yeah, they absolutely lie about their past. So, they will lie about being abused in order to get you to open up. That’s something to watch out for. So generally, healthy people don’t talk about abuse in the first date. narcissists, on the other hand, are, you know, oh, well, you know, I was abused as a kid. And, and this that the other hoping that you’re going to open up and tell them about your abuse so that they can just store that stuff away, and then use it at a later date. So that is what they do. What was the other part of that question? Yes, they lie. Yes, they believe it. Do they even know their own behavior? On some level. Yes. But you have to understand the pathology going on, especially with a dark triad. Okay. Which is psychopath, narcissist, Machiavellian. The pathology there is they are so delusional that they truly, truly believe their own lives. You can watch it. We talked about this, you know, kind of cross over their face when they’re confronted with the truth. So yeah, you want to they, on some level, they know they’re lying. But they’re convincing themselves. And that’s why they repeat their lies so often, because the more you repeat something, the more your subconscious mind is going to believe it. And the more your flying monkeys are going to believe it too. So, there’s a purpose for everything they do. Absolutely. 110% Do they know their lying? Yeah, on some level, 110% You can watch it. You can see them kind of be like, Yeah, can I get away with this? Yeah, yeah. Can you know that kind of thing? So yeah, absolutely. They do they do now? On some level next.

Kris Godinez  34:22

How do you deal with people that want to bring up bad things that happen? Oh, you tell them. I’m not interested. This is okay. This is where no comes into play. No. Is your friend. No is a powerful word. No is a protection word. It is a word of boundary. It is a wall of No, you know, and no is a complete sentence. So, when you tell somebody no, you offer them no explanation. No, I’m not interested in talking about that. No, I’m not going to tell you about that. No, this is not on the table for discussion. Thank you. So, something I do when somebody who is particularly heinous, you know, ask me something that they really have no right to, and I’m not interested in sharing. And I’m not interested in giving them an explanation because that’s what abusers want you to do; they want to get you on the ropes so that you give them an explanation so that they make you feel less than that’s what that whole needing an explanation is. So, when somebody does that to me, and I don’t really like them, or care about them, or give a damn if they’re never gonna see them again, and they’re evil, then I will say something like, well, thank you for asking.

Kris Godinez  35:35

And that’s it. I never say another word. And they either get really uncomfortable and a little bit, but it no is a complete sentence. We’re not talking about this period. And if they continue, you walk away. So, it’s boundaries, its boundaries, The Disease to Please Harriet Braiker, great for co-dependency stuff. Boundaries, you want to be able to say no and not feel guilty about it. So, abusers will try to make you feel guilty for saying no, never, ever on this or any other planet; feel guilty for saying no. It is your right. You have the right to say no, no, I don’t want to talk about that. No, I’m not going to do that. No, I’m not going to gossip. No, I’m not going to be your flying monkey. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, no is a complete sentence. All right. Next question.

I apologize all the time to literally everything.

Kris Godinez  36:28

How do I stop doing that. Okay, Self-Esteem Workbook. So, when John and I first started dating, I would run into mannequins and apologize to the mannequin for running into them. Seriously, show me somebody who has survived abuse from a family of origin. I will show you somebody who over-apologizes. And the reason is, is because even when we weren’t in the wrong, we had to say I’m sorry to our abuser. I can’t tell you the number of times my mom made me apologize to my dad. If I could throw a middle finger right now, I totally would. Because I had nothing to apologize for. I had an emotion you didn’t like it? Guess what? Too bad. So, but he was like, you know, knew you can’t be mad at me. That’s what abusers do. Good. Parents know that their kids sometimes get angry with them. Absolutely. Bad. Parents view it as a defying authority. You’re being, what’s the word? I’m looking for. obstinate, You’re being stubborn. You’re defying me. You’re this. You’re that instead of, oh, you’re a little kid having big emotions. Little kids have big emotions, and they’re not always going to be happy, happy, joy, joy. They’re just not. So um, yeah, abusers absolutely will not allow their kids to have emotions. And they will absolutely try to control them. And what was the question? I’m sorry, I lost it again. Apologize. Apologizing. So, you’re apologizing constantly for having an emotion for being a regular kid. For you know, you’re always apologizing for everything for existing God. I mean, that. Yeah, abusers make their kids feel like they need to apologize for their existence, you know? So, like what my dad did is, he always made us responsible for him not retiring. Oh, it’s your fault. I can’t retire. It’s your fault that this is happening. It’s your fault. I’m unhappy. And it took me until I was in my teens to realize, no, you’re the one who’s making all these choices. You’re the one who is miserable. You’re the one who nobody likes. Gosh. Who’s the problem here? None of your kids must be you. You see where I’m going with that. So yeah, we do end up apologizing, apologizing, apologizing.

So, work on self-esteem, the Self-Esteem Workbook Glenn Shiraldi. Get your self-esteem up to where it needs to be. You do not need to apologize for existing. You don’t. You don’t need to apologize for existing, and so many of us who came out of abusive families of origin feel that need to apologize all the time. You don’t you don’t need to apologize for existing. Mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. I give you permission to exist. I permission you I give you permission to be I give you permission to be happy. I give you permission to have emotions. I give you permission, period. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, work on the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi and work on the mirror work. You have a right to have your own emotions. Notice what you’re apologizing for. Who are you apologizing to? What is driving it? What’s the thought? So, for me, it was when I bumped into the mannequin, and I said I’m sorry, I went, What the frick is that? You know, and then it’s also good to have friends pointed out, it’s like, Hey, you’re apologizing again, you don’t need to. So that kind of helps to validate that, hey, I don’t need to apologize for the only time you need to apologize is if you have harmed somebody, and you need to make amends, that’s really the only time you need to apologize. You know, it’s other than that, no. So, there’s that.

Okay. I’m not sure if this is a question or not somebody put, did you heal your attachment style from childhood? If so, how did you move to more secure?

Kris Godinez  40:23

Okay, so moving to more secure? This is a question. So, did I heal my attachment style from childhood? Yes. How did I move to more secure a, I went to therapy. Seriously, I went to therapy, I went to Ruth Hornaday in Chico, when I was a teenager, I went to Fabian Smith up in Portland when I was an adult. I continued my therapy on in Phoenix. And I worked on the self-esteem, and I did mirror work. And I wrote and burned letters like nobody’s business. So, and you start surrounding yourself with healthier people, the healthier the people you surround yourself with, the ones that have the secure attachment, the more their behavior rubs off on you. So, it really is a truth that you must be careful who you allow in your life. Because if you’ve got people around you that are all abusers, or low self-esteem, and they don’t like themselves, and they’re always apologizing for themselves, and they’re always harming themselves, and they’re always, you know, drama, and this and the other thing, it’s going to be very difficult for you to heal. So, you want to surround yourself with people who’ve got a good attachment, who liked themselves, who are also dedicated to working on self-esteem, who are also dedicated on improving themselves bettering themselves, etc., etc.

So that is how you heal that attachment is you work on your own self-esteem, and you surround yourself with friends. And if you have family who have got good self-esteem, absolutely. And that helps with the security. So, security is not just being with somebody. It’s being with yourself. And it’s recognizing that those of us who were abused by toxic family members really truly got abandoned. We truly, truly were abandoned in every way, shape, and form. You know, it’s like either through the abuse itself, through the neglect itself, or through the other parent enabling the abuser. Like for example, when my mom insisted that my mom insisting that I apologize to my dad for having a natural emotion for being mad at him. Because he was abusive. Go figure. So, yeah, so it’s really important to work on self-esteem. Okay, that’s it. Okay, kiddos, we’re going to call it good for today. So, you guys have a great week. I will be doing a show next week. There are still tickets available on krisgodinez.com for the July 2 meet-and-greet in Portland. I don’t know what that show is that I’m doing on that Sunday. I’m going to have to go look, so I will also do the questions on Wednesday so, and then I’ll let you know what the show is. All right, I will talk to you guys later.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 06-25-2023 Dependent Personality appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Narcissistic abuse is all about betrayal. What exactly is betrayal trauma? How does betrayal trauma affect our current and future relationships? How do we cope with having been betrayed? Did you know that trusting others is actually deeply embedded in our brains, so what do we do when we don’t trust?

In the first half of this episode, Kris dives deep into the above questions pulling from journals like psychology today among other studies and psychology journals. In the second half of the show, Kris will answer questions from listeners in the live chat.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Alright, so today’s current event, so a lot of my clients recently have been freaking out over the news. So, they’re watching the news obsessively, as we all kind of do occasionally. And it’s driving them crazy. And so, what you got to remember guys, here’s my current events. Hello, everybody. The thing about the current way news is done. In the old days, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth in my time, in my time, we used to have a half an hour, every night, Uncle Walter. Walter Cronkite would come on, and he would say, here’s what’s going on. And that was it. And then we’re done. And then we went onto the honeymooners or whatever else was playing, I don’t know, honeymooners was actually before my time. But anyway, the point being is, is that we didn’t have this 24-hour news cycle that had to get ratings that had to be relevant, that had to be catching people’s attention all the time. So that’s what I wanted to remind you of the way the news cycle is now if it bleeds, it leads. So, in other words, they are intentionally doing things that are going to catch your attention and make you pay attention to make you watch and click on that article. Because it’s all ratings. It’s all getting the ad revenue. It’s all getting the ratings, etc., etc.

So, what’s my recommendation for that? Stop. I seriously don’t watch or look at the news more than once a day, I do one first-time thing in the morning just to see what’s going on in the world. And then I let it go because it’s kind of it’s doing that Buddhist worry chart. Is there a problem? Well, yeah, I mean, really, I mean, we got the earthquake in Syria, we got the, you know, the balloons flying over America, we shot something down over Canada, and oh, my god, and the Ukraine, and ah, yeah, right. So, there is a lot that’s going wrong. What can I do about it? Well, I can donate to Doctors Without Borders. Yes, I do. And I do do that. I can write senators. I can write representatives. I can do what I can. But then after that, I have done what I can, let it go. Because if you don’t, it’s going to literally drive you crazy. And the anxiety is what gets us going, and we have enough anxiety coming out of abusive relationships.

So that’s kind of what I wanted to get across is that if you’re falling into that obsessively, looking at the news, reading the news articles, following the news, etc., etc. And you find yourself a nervous wreck, then stop looking at the news, like, once every couple of days is fine. You know, for me, I keep current just because I like to know current events, what’s going on, and what’s affecting my clients. And I don’t have so much of that reactivity. Occasionally. I do. Occasionally I do. And then John, and I will talk, and then I will go I’m not going to look at the news for a few days. So, you know, it’s a matter of understanding that it’s a 24-hour news cycle. They’re doing it for ratings. They’re going to say the worst things that are possibly going on. You do the Buddhist worry chart. Is there a problem? Well, yeah. Okay. Can I do something about it? Well, limited. Okay. Well, then do that limited thing that you can do, and then let it go. Yeah, so that’s what I wanted to say about current events. So Alright, there it is.

Let’s dive into today’s topic. So, today’s Super Bowl Sunday, I’m having John put up the suicide hotline number and the domestic violence hotline number, just because you know, just because so anyway, I wanted to talk today about betrayal trauma. Now, somebody has been asking me repeatedly. Please talk about betrayal trauma. Please talk about betrayal trauma. So, betrayal trauma is a phrase that was coined in 1991 by Jennifer, Freyd, I think. And what it involves is everything we’ve been going through. But what it covers is betrayal, trauma is any time, anything lets us down or betrays us. So if it’s an institution, if it’s a government, if it’s a friend, if it’s a parent, if it’s a lover, if it’s, you know, anything that we have relied on, for our survival, in some way, shape, or form, whether that’s mental, emotional, physical, or religious, whatever, anything that we have literally leaned on like that, and they have poof, and we go thunk that’s a betrayal, trauma, and it can be from literally any kind of betrayal. So, like, institutional, governmental, friends, family, etc., etc.

So let me pull up the article that I thought was really cool. Let’s see if I can find that one. Where did it go? Where did it go? Because they had a whole thing. Okay. The term was first coined by psychologist Jennifer Freyd. I said it right. Yeah. It occurs when a person’s trust is violated by a person or system that they rely on for survival. So that can be families that can be government institutions, etc. In other words, when you trust a person or an institution to provide you with physical, mental, or emotional needs, and they are able to do so or worse, they end up harming you instead. This can have significant and lasting impact. Okay, so this article is on psychology today. This is called the cause and effect of partner betrayal trauma. And this is by Wendy Boring, Bray DDH LPCC. Okay. And this was written in 2021. Okay, so that’s just kind of giving you the definition of what betrayal trauma is.

A common example of betrayal trauma is when children have been neglected or abused by their caregivers. A key distinguishing factor of betrayal trauma is the reliance on the betrayer. And this goes for all of us who’ve been abused by a narcissist because we have relied on that we expected them to be a, you know, normal, functioning human being. Oops, they’re not victims of betrayal trauma do not have the choice to leave the situation as is so many of the instances of domestic violence they are in because of the dependent and dependence on the perpetrator to meet their physical, mental, emotional needs. Failure on behalf of the perpetrator to meet those needs forces the victim to adapt in order to survive and or maintain the relationship.

So, this is why I wanted to put the Oh, thank you. This is why I wanted to put the hotlines up. Traditionally Superbowl Sunday for some reason does see a spike in domestic violence. Perpetrators do keep people stuck, financially, financial abuse, you know, making it so that they can’t get out. So, this is why I want to talk about this. Also, I forgot the meet and greets. So, I will be in Santa Barbara. Sorry, middle, middle of the show. Hello. Um, I will be in Santa Barbara on Saturday. So, the cut-off for tickets is Thursday night. So, if you don’t sign up by Thursday night, you’re not going so. So, third Saturday in Santa Barbara. And then I’m going to Vancouver, BC, which is May 9, no. May 20. I’ll be there May 20. And then, I will be in Portland, Oregon, and Boise. And those are the ones that are going to be in July. But I haven’t gotten the dates yet, because my niece hasn’t gotten back to me as to when exactly she wants me to come up. So as soon as I find out that information, I will pass it along to you so then we could get rocking and rolling. So sorry about that. Okay, back to betrayal, trauma. So, partner betrayal trauma. Okay, this is what most of us have dealt with. We’ve also dealt with the family. A lot of us have dealt with institutional betrayal trauma. I mean, how many times has a target of domestic violence called the police, and then the police arrested the target as opposed to the perpetrator? I just.

Kris Godinez  09:22

And then of course, they’re saying things like, Oh, we’re lowering our standards for hiring police and we’re not doing as much training, and I’m like, opposite of what you need to be doing. Opposite land. Logic. Common sense. Not so common.

Anyway. Betrayal, trauma, sorry, went off on a tangent. Okay. Um, all right. Regular use of the term betrayal trauma is pretty new. Many mental health professionals might be more familiar with seeing the foundations of betrayal trauma in certain attachment styles or developmental trauma. In other words, when focusing on relationship between the child and the caregiver, betrayal trauma doesn’t just occur in caregiver contexts though. Partner betrayal trauma is when the perpetrator is the significant other such as a boyfriend or girlfriend or spouse. It is entirely possible, in fact. It’s relatively common for an individual to be reliant in some way on a partner. Hold on. This might be financial. This might be physical might be safety, to betray that trust might look like cheating, manipulation, physical, sexual, emotional abuse, religious abuse, financial abuse, withholding, or misusing financial resources. In some cases, a person might not be entirely reliant on your partner, at least not literally. But it feels as though leaving the perpetrator is not an option.

So, a lot of us, when we’ve left, how many of us, and I know I know I did, I felt like my world was going to crumble. I felt like I was just going to, you know, blow away in the wind, you know like I ceased to exist because everything was about the abuser, right? Whether that’s a parent, whether that’s a romantic partner, whether that’s a friend, a boss, an institution, whatever, so we feel like we’re going to cease to exist. We lose ourselves we lose ourselves we lose who we are, which is why I keep saying Self-Esteem Workbook Glenn Schiraldi work it work it like a boss, Disease to Please Harriet Braiker boundaries, deal breakers, work that like a boss that’s going to keep you safe. And that’s going to remind you of who you really are. So, there is that. Hold on back to this.

Okay, regardless of how or in what way a person is reliant on the partner when the perpetrator betrays the victim’s trust, it can leave a lasting mark, say a person was happily married for 20 years, they shared everything with the spouse, including the home and children and relied on the spouse to provide a stable, loving relationship. Suddenly, they learned that their spouse was cheating on them. How might that affect them? Well, that would destroy any trust. Now, the thing with narcissists is they generally, if they’re cheaters, they’ve been doing it since before the wedding guarantee, and they will continue to do it. And what happens to us is we go into denial when we’re first confronted with it, and one of these articles that I picked actually deals with that why we go into that denial phase and denial is deadly guys because it gives the perpetrator gives the abuser another chance, and we don’t want to give them another chance. Okay, hold on going back to this betrayal, blindness, oh, this is the one that describes that. Okay.

So, the impact of betrayal, blindness, many current therapy, clients are seeking help with partner betrayal, trauma, and yet they have no idea of the root of their problems. This is because partner betrayal trauma can take many different forms depending on the person, their age, and when the trauma occurred, and the trauma itself. Betrayal blindness, a large part of partner betrayal, trauma is betrayal blindness. This is when the person consciously or unconsciously ignores signs of betrayal to try to preserve the relationship.

So, in other words, we see the red flags, saw the red flags, and we went, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s no Is this a fluke? No, is it? No, I don’t…they didn’t really mean it. Oh, it was an accident. Oh, did you know they may deny behaviors. So, the abuser themselves will deny behaviors. They’ll make excuses or they’ll flip the script and blame the target of abuse. They will become very defensive if questioned about their actions by avoiding the signs of a betrayal and individual can make the impact on themselves significantly worse, as they work harder and harder and harder to maintain the relationship because think about it. It is a one-sided relationship. It takes two to tango and if the abusive partner is out seeking outside narcissistic supply, you’re going to be twisting yourself into a pretzel, or you have twisted yourself into a pretzel, and we have all twisted ourselves into pretzels at one point or another trying to make this unworkable, untenable relationship work. We all do it. We all we have done it don’t do it anymore. But we have all done it. Okay. Difficulty

Okay, is that as a result of this kind of betrayal? And this goes for parental betrayal too. You know, when parents abused their kids when they scream at them, when they yell at them, when they call them names, put them down? They’re breaking a trust. They’re breaking a trust and trust is incredibly hard to get back again, not impossible, but incredibly hard to get back again. So, we have difficulty trusting in other relationships. Having been betrayed in previous relationships, a partner of a victim of partner betrayal trauma may find it incredibly difficult to establish new positive, trusting relationships. They may be terrified and experiencing more betrayal, which could then prevent them from being able to trust to develop trust in their partners, friends, or even family members. This is very true. It’s kind of like, how do I explain this? It’s like once you’ve been betrayed, once you’ve been harmed, once that trust has been broken, literally by anybody, you’re kind of like for Missouri. At that point, the show me state, you show me prove to me, prove to me you’re safe, you know, that kind of thing. And we do that. And it’s, it’s because of the betrayal that we’ve gone through. I mean, John and I’ve had multiple conversations about that because something will happen. And I will feel like, ooh, this behavior reminded me of my dad or whatever, and I’ll have to be like, Okay, got to tell you, a three-year-old inside of me is going Screw you, and I’ll trust you. And then we’ll work it through, you know what I’m saying? And, you know, that kind of thing. And it’s it, it colors, our relationships, it does it and to this day, and you know, I’m 58 years old, I’ve been working on this my entire life, I still every once in a while, we’ll have those little, I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you. I don’t trust you know, and you got to just kind of go okay, little inner child, hello. You’re okay, and you’re safe. Everything’s fine. Look at this. Are there red flags? No, we’re not seeing red flags.

But if you’re seeing red flags that don’t trust them, but you got to learn to trust your gut, I think more than anything else. And that’s really what I took away from this article is that because of all of this, we learned not to trust ourselves because of the gaslighting, the lying, the cheating, the stealing, you know, the flipping the script, the whole thing, we get an altered definition of love, someone who has experienced significant betrayal by a partner might subconsciously come to terms with this by adjusting their personal definition of love. In other words, they may begin to consider things like abuse, infidelity, jealousy, or any other form of betrayal. Because Jealousy is a form of betrayal as a normal part of love, and begin to not only expect it but to seek it out. And this is where we’ve got to not normalize abuse. So, John and I were talking about this. This morning, we were talking about how these television shows and movies always portray like this, you know, oh, it’s got to be painful. And it’s got to be a struggle, and you’ve got to fight for this person’s attention and steal them away from another person. And, and I’m just sitting here going, No, no, no, no, you don’t. So, it really is looking at our cultural dysfunction. As to what real love is real love is not, you know, painful, it’s not if it hurts, it’s not love.

Kris Godinez  17:51

If it hurts, it’s not love. It isn’t Love is Respect. Respect is love. Love is Respect. So, if it hurts, it’s not love. And I really, I wish to God that they would teach psychology healthy psychology in high school is to what is a healthy relationship because a lot of the kids have dysfunctional families. They don’t know what healthy looks like, you know. So, it makes sense that we have this weird idea of what love is when we come out of one of these things or when we’re still in one of these things. Because we’ve adjusted, we’ve sacrificed our boundaries, we’ve made adjustments so that we can keep the relationship or that we can get whatever we think we’re getting out of it. But we’re not getting anything out of it because it’s abusive, so, okay, hang on, okay. We have the added extra bonus of possibly being re-victimized if a person’s definition of love has been altered to include betrayal and abuse, it makes the sense it makes sense that they would be at higher risk to be victimized again in the future, either by the same or other partners. So, remember, if there’s no work being done on the self, if there’s no work being done on your self-esteem, your boundaries, your deal breakers, you’re going to more than likely have that inner child go looking outside and go oh, somebody who kind of sort of reminds me of the parents, I had the hardest time with or the partner, I had the hardest time with a look half of a doodoo sandwich, half of a doodoo sandwich. Total doodoo sandwich!

So, you don’t want to do that. Lowered self-esteem by being betrayed by one’s partner can seriously affect one’s perception of themselves. Yes. How many of us lost ourselves and felt like we weren’t pretty, or we weren’t smart, or it wasn’t okay to have a sense of humor, or was it okay to laugh? Or was it okay to do our crafts or sing or act or dance or, you know, whatever, because they were constantly putting us down or when they did the devalue and the discard. They damned us for everything that they originally loved us for. Of course, that’s not really love because you don’t love the person like that and then flip the script and go oh, no, I hate you for all of that because that’s what they do. Because they want us dead. So, um, yeah, I mean, it’s lowered self-esteem. You betcha.

Mental health challenges. Unsurprisingly, partner betrayal can lead to serious mental health issues, potentially to the level of diagnosable mental health disorders such as depression and anxiety. Additionally, people with betrayal… partner betrayal often exhibit signs of say it with me… PTSD, CPTSD, like hypervigilance, insomnia or dissociation. It also can create because the level of cortisol in our system, physical issues, like fibromyalgia, like you know, you know, other autoimmune things.

Okay, so all right, moving past betrayal, four steps to avoid surrendering your happiness and success to others. So, this is by George Everly. He’s a Ph.D. ABPP. I don’t know what that stands for, FACLP. So Okay. All right. So, trust is biologically hardwired, we are hardwired to trust because it literally takes a village, you know, we have to, we need each other to get things done, basically. So, it’s not. It’s not bizarre that we need other people. And when I say need, I don’t mean need, like a psychological unhealthy need. It’s more like a, it takes a village kind of thing. So, in the phases of betrayal, betrayal is a breach of trust. It’s not only a psychological injury; it’s a physical injury as well. The moment you are betrayed, your first reaction psychologically is confusion. How many of us were like ah, coffee would be good. Let’s go get a cup of coffee. Um, what’s going on, you know, that just you know, confusion. The sympathetic fight or flight nervous system is activated, and your body is flooded with adrenaline, unlike fear, where danger where you can focus your response and be like, Oh, crap, we got to get out of here. We got to do this; we got to do that. A betrayal is more diffused. The second phase of betrayal is denial. You simply cannot believe that this treachery has taken place. Your heart rate decelerates as you try to make sense of the senseless of the circumstances at hand. Third phase usually consists of one of two pathways, although sometimes they will toggle between the two. One pathway is to self-blame. So immediately we go, What did I do wrong? You know, how did I make this happen? So, we self-blame? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. When a narcissist when an abuser does what they do, it is entirely their fault. Absolutely.

Psychologically, sorry, physiologically, okay. One pathway is self-blame. The other is anger. So, remember, anger is the bodyguard of the softer emotion. So underneath the anger is all the fear and the hurt and the sadness and the confusion and all of that, so we get angry when we get hurt. So physiologically, adrenaline and cortisol are typically elevated and chronically so. Cortisol is a corticosteroid, which serves to increase blood glucose levels and diminish the efficiency of immune systems as well. It also has catabolic properties, setting the stage for a myriad of stress-related illnesses. Yep, finally, the angrier you become, or the more you blame yourself, the better you are, the better you become at it. Until, through a mechanism of neuroplasticity, it becomes a habit. And you ultimately lose yourself in the reiterative process that the phase repeats themselves. So, in other words, if we get stuck in the story, if we get stuck in the it’s my fault, it’s my fault. It’s my fault, or we get stuck in the I’m going to get you, I’m going to revenge on it a bit. Remember, you know, we get angry, but we never get underneath to the softer emotions. We keep telling that story and telling that story and telling that story again, and we get stuck. Betrayal has the potential to become a chronic plague upon your happiness and success. But that does not have to be so.

Four Steps to moving past betrayal. Number one, please don’t blame yourself. And with the anger, get underneath that seriously. Anger is just the bodyguard. The softer emotions, we’re angry because it’s part of the fight-flight-freeze or fawn, but really what’s underneath the anger? The betrayal, the sadness, the hurt, the confusion, the What the frick, you know, that’s what’s underneath. If so, the anger will keep you stuck. Blaming yourself will keep you stuck because you’ve got to understand when you’re dealing with a disordered personality, there’s no there there. There is no there. If they cheated on you, they’ll cheat on their next partner. They’re never going to be faithful ever. So, it’s not you. It’s them. Get with a good trauma therapist do EMDR do tapping that helps, you know, work through that trauma, work through and stop putting the blame on you CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, work chapter three, put it back on the abuser. That’s where that’s where the blame and the shame and the anger and everything else needs to go to it’s not yours. It’s not your luggage. Give it to them.

Number two. Okay. Okay, understanding that there is no why. There is no why. It’s like, abusers are crazy. They’re cray cray. Let’s just be clear. They’re cray cray. There is no one. If you’re looking for the why you’re never going to find it. What you’re going to find is the how. So how did this happen? How did I miss the red flags? How did I trust this person that didn’t, and this is not victim blaming, I want to be very clear. This is working on inner child stuff, who set you up to be groomed, who set you up in your family to be groomed to believe a liar, to be groomed to believe that that’s all you deserve, that you don’t deserve better. You know, that’s what I want you to work on. All right. Remember, the fight or flight function of the amygdala is fueling your reaction. The Angular Gyrus will dampen the amygdaloid. All you have to do is turn it on. So, he’s saying forgiveness. I’m saying screw that noise. What I’m saying is acceptance. It is what it is, and stop seeking revenge. I think that is the big thing that we get stuck in. So, a lot of us, when we have been harmed and especially if we come from a family that was big into revenge, you know, I’ll get you, I’ll show you, I’ll fix your wagon, all you know, all of that crazy stuff. That’s kind of a knee-jerk reaction that we go to. So instead of going to revenge, it’s not so much forgiveness. It’s acceptance. It’s like this happened. And I do not deserve to be treated this way. Because I respect myself. Self-esteem boundaries. That should be what are your deal breakers. So, a list of deal breakers should be things that you will not put up with from any body, anybody? Anybody. So that would be lying, cheating, stealing, rewriting history, gaslighting, flipping the script, game playing, smearing, you know, a myriad of stuff, manipulation, etc., etc.

Kris Godinez  27:52

So, all the things that narcissists do, so yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s having that self-love, that self-respect, and knowing that you don’t deserve to be treated like that ever, by anybody ever, period. Okay, back to this in how are we doing on time? Okay. Okay, ah, are you going to hang on?

All right, the more you give into the anger, and the more you give into the you know, the revenge, the grieving, you’re going to grieve, he’s, they’re basically saying, Don’t grieve. I’m saying screw that noise, too. I’m saying grieve, but recognize that what you’re grieving for is not the person that betrayed you. You’re grieving for the illusion of who you thought they were, which sucks, because the hardest grief you’re ever going to do is grieving the loss of somebody who is still living and breathing and walking the face of this planet. Because it’s the illusion that you are grieving the illusion of the person you thought you knew that you really didn’t. So that’s really kind of crazy.

Make a promise to yourself. To no longer surrender control of your happiness to others. Now, that does not mean stop trusting it means start trusting yourself. And if someone because, remember, if someone is throwing red flags, and it’s starting to look like a Communist Party leave, you cannot fix them because you did not break them. It is not your job. Nobody can fix them. The only person that can fix them would be the higher power in them. And that would be it. So, you know. change does not happen overnight. Start small. With practice moving past betrayal will become a habit. The more you practice, the habit will become a trait once it is a trait. It will be a new you mirror work, looking in the mirror, working on self-esteem, working on boundaries, working on acceptance, not so much forgiveness, if you want to forgive them. That’s great.

But the problem I had was when people think of forgiveness; they think it’s like a tabula rasa, like a clean slate like oh, you know, I forgive. That’s okay. And then they go and do it again. No, forgiveness is not a tabula rasa. It’s not forgiveness if you want to get meta about it. It’s acceptance. It’s like, okay, I get it. You’re disorder. You’re dysfunctional. You harmed me, you did it on purpose. I’m not going to give me another chance. I’m also not going to let you live rent-free in my head one more bleepity bleep second, go pound sand, have a nice life, and kick them out, kick them out, kick them out. Get rid of them. They do not need to be in your life. They, I’m sorry. They don’t get to be in your life. They treat you like doo-doo. They don’t get to be in your life. You have more value than that. Can you tell how much I really don’t like abusers. So yeah, so that is all that’s why I’m saying don’t go for the forgiveness. Forgiveness, I think in our society has been skewed.

It’s more the acceptance. This is what it is. Worry chart. Is there something I can do about this? Nope. They’re disordered, not even. And here’s the other thing, do not go to therapy with them. Guys. If this is like, you know, multiple times cheating, or multiple times, gaslighting or multiple, they will use the therapy to abuse you do not go to therapy with them. And, of course, we’re coming up on Valentine’s Day, which is this week. Oh my god. So, I can’t tell you the number of times this week that I’ve had clients call me going. You will not believe who just sent me a text. I’m like, oh, yeah, I would. So, you know, it’s that, Oh, baby, baby, I’ll change. It’ll be different. I promise. Actions speak louder than words. Trust the actions, not the words. Okay, one more thing. And then I’m going to…

Okay, six ways to regain your sense of self and your sense of trust, engage in self-care, find ways to nurture yourself to regain balance. They take us off balance. They literally rip the rug out from underneath us, parents, bosses, institutions, governance, you know, whoever has betrayed us. So, find ways to get your sense of balance back. Self-esteem, confidence, and resilience. That’s where the mirror work comes in. Walking in nature helps a lot. Invest in your personal community. Trust friends, friends that are trustworthy. You know, spend time with trusted friends and trusted family. That’s a really good way. Find compassion for yourself. That’s the big thing. read and learn. So read up on how abusers act. You know, The Object of My Affection is in My Reflection, Coping With a Narcissist by Rokelle Lerner, After the Affair, can’t remember who wrote that one. But that’s another good one. You know, that’s kind of geared towards getting back together with the person, but it can be helpful to healing yourself after your partner has cheated on you. Journal, journal, journal journal, get creative with it, paint, write, sing, you know, do things like that, dance it out, do whatever you need to do. And then allow yourself to trust yourself. And then, out of trusting your gut. You’ll learn whether or not people are trustworthy. So really, its actions speak louder than words. Look at the actions; don’t look at the words. That’s the big thing and trusting ourselves means we work on self-esteem, boundaries, all of that good stuff, physical health, mental health, emotional health, the whole thing. Really listening to our gut. How many times have we been in a situation where you met somebody? And this happens to me a lot. I meet somebody, and I’m just like, nope, stay the hell away from that one. And then it turns out, oh, look at that, you know, they were a narcissist, or they were an abuser, or they were whatever. So, trust your gut. Your gut does not lie to you. The head and the heart will lie. They tell stories. Well, what about this? What about that? What about….? The gut is a simple yes or no answer to a yes or no question. practice trusting your gut. And what you do is you start with things you already know the answer to so for me, I know I’ve told the story a million times. Sorry, guys. I hate peanut butter. Hate it. hated it. Hated. But I love Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups. So, if I asked my gut, okay, gut. Do you like peanut butter? It’s like this visceral like, I can feel my gut roil like it’s like, oh, no, I hate peanut butter. But then if I go gut, do you like Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups? Oh, yeah. No story, just simple yes or no. So, practice with things you already know the answer to and then take it out to something you don’t know the answer to that’s not going to be life-threatening or life-changing and see how that goes. And you keep practicing until you learn to feel your body’s response to your gut instincts. So that’s what I want you to do. Okay, let’s see last one, and then we’ll get to the questions.

Okay, this one is also on Psychology Today by Jack Shaffer. for betrayal and human relationships, there was something in this one that I wanted to make sure to hit. Ah, To love is to risk being hurt. And that’s why we are so afraid of trusting again because love is trusting if you don’t trust, you don’t have love, basically. So um, it’s really, it’s a process. It’s a process of learning to trust yourself, listening to your gut instincts, loving yourself. And out of that, like I said, practicing, practicing, and giving yourself permission. Because when we’ve been in abusive families, or abusive relationships, the first thing they do is tell us that we do not see that pink elephant taking a dump in the corner of the living room. And so, we learn to shut our trust of ourselves down, I want you to take the blinders off. Yeah, you do see the pink elephant taking a dump in the living room. You always have that’s why they picked you out as the scapegoat. So yeah, you want to get back to Yes, I do see that. No, I’m not going to deny that I see that. Thanks for playing is that’s what our abusers have. They were parental units would do. No, you don’t see the dysfunction. Now, yeah, I’ll give you something to, you know, cry about I’ll give you something to be angry about. And they’re not allowing us to trust our gut instinct. They beat it out of us, literally. So, start working on trusting your gut. 100%. Okay, let’s hit the questions. Okay.

Um, do narcissists accuse you of betrayal while it was them doing it? 110%! They are projectionists! They project like projectile vomiting onto the target of abuse, the very things that they are doing. So, they will point the you, you, you, you, guns. Remember, there’s two fingers pointed out at you. But there’s six-pointed back at them. They’re talking about themselves. So, they do the you, you, you, you, guns. And I’m jealous because your cheating, no,  they’re jealous because they assume you’re going to behave the way they behave.

Kris Godinez  37:07

Let me say that again. They started accusing because they assume that you’re going to behave the way they behave. And so, they will accuse us of cheating. They’ll accuse us of lying. They’ll accuse everything under the sun. Guess who they’re talking about? They’re talking about themselves. They’re talking about themselves. So yeah, absolutely. 110% they do that! My late narcissist mother betrayed everyone but always said she was betrayed and that no one else is to be trusted. No one has to be trusted. Yeah, that’s total projection total project. And remember, if they are a covert narcissist, what a covert narcissists do, and what are they love more than anything else in the world to be the victim. So even though it’s clear that they are the ones that are abusing and harming other people, they’ll get out the world’s smallest little violin and start going, Oh, I’m the victim. Nobody ever writes. Nobody ever calls and, you know, look, look at what I’ve done for you. And you do nothing for Oh, go blow it out your rear. You know that, seriously? That’s what they do. They love being the victim more than anything else. Okay, so yes, they will absolutely accuse you of the very things that are doing. So that’s how you know they’re cheating. So seriously, what I tell my clients when they sit down on my couch, and they go, my partner is suddenly accusing me of cheating. I’ve never given any reason or sign or symptom, I’m not cheating. I look at them, and I go, go get tested, go get tested, and nine times out of 10. They come back with an STD. So, because this cheating has been going on for way longer than you know about, because that’s that is the old story of the toad and the scorpion. It’s their nature. That is their nature. That is there will always be a narcissistic, selfish, self-centered. POS that will never change. So yeah, if you suspect your partner is, you know, if your partner is especially getting ballsy enough to start accusing you, I would go get tested. Absolutely. I mean, this was a parent thing. But yeah, if you’re in a romantic relationship yet Absolutely.

Do narcissists go out of their way to betray their adult children? Yes. By interfering in personal stuff. They have nothing to do with my narcissist started calling people to tell lies about me to hurt me. Absolutely. They need chaos and drama the way the rest of us need air. Like, I’m not even kidding you. So, they will interject themselves into personal business. They will call friends of the child, the adult child. And years later, like, recently, there was one that was in their 90s that started doing this. And thank God, the friends were all clued in, and they were like, yeah, no, we’re not buying this. We know you’re doing child so yeah, I mean, it just. It’s crazy. It really hits. That’s, that’s when you just kind of got to go, wow. Oh, you put the front and dysfunction, lady. Seriously that’s it’s pathetic. And it’s sad but yeah, they will absolutely do that they need drama and the best thing to do is go no contact or low contact. So, a lot of people are like,

Oh, but they’re old, and I, I feel sorry for them, and they don’t have anybody else, and you know, whatever, okay, we’ll go to the contact level that you’re comfortable with, but my recommendation would be low to no contact and tell them nothing, give them nothing, give them nothing they can use Don’t tell them anything that’s important or personal or anything else. So, there’s that. Okay. Um, all right. And really, what you can do is, you know, you just tell the friends, there’s, you know, they’re, they’re narcissistic, they’re I don’t know what her game is. But please don’t engage, you know, and the ones that do engage the ones who are willing to believe the worst of you, do not deserve the best of you. Let me say that again. Anybody, any flying monkey that is willing to believe the worst of you does not deserve the best of you kick them to the curb? Kick them out of your life. Alright.

Okay, how can I best support a victim going through betrayal in the work environment, this is there is hard evidence the victim is being set up by the abuser, but the majority are believing the abuser. Well, as we all know, HR is there to protect the company. So, if there is a setup going on, you want to mention the words lawyer and HR. So just tell them to get an attorney that does business law, tell them to talk to HR, and don’t allow the setup to continue for you for support. You just keep encouraging them to go do the right thing, which would be to get an attorney, which would be to talk to HR, which would be to file a hostile work environment complaint with the EEOC. okay.gov. So, yeah, file a file a hostile work environment complaint with the EEOC, get an attorney, talk to HR, you know, and go from there, encourage them to do it. This is not your job. This is not your problem; you encourage you encourage them. In other words, you’re giving them courage to do the self-protection stuff. It’s not your job to get involved, as in, you’re going to go do it. But you tell her the steps; the steps would be okay, speak to HR, let HR know what’s going on. Talk to a business attorney. That’s really the way to handle it. So, you know, and the other thing would be start for another job, because some corporations, I’ll tell you, corporations are only as healthy as the people at the top. And if the people at the top are not healthy Hello Disney company with a certain Bob, not the current Bob, the old Bob, you know, it showed the company started falling apart. Anyway, the point being, they’re only as healthy as the people at the top.

So, in remember, HR is there to protect the company. Now, most companies do not want an embarrassing lawsuit. It’s sometimes you got to play poker; you got to play. You know, it’s like, Okay, fine. I’m hiring an attorney. I’m filing a complaint with the EEOC have fun with that. And you’ll see how quickly they a lot of times they turn around; sometimes they don’t, sometimes they don’t care. But you know, you just give her the advice, and then let her do all the work or him do all the work because it’s not your job to do it for them. So, there is that,

Um, okay, how can we tell if betrayal from cluelessness? Oh, how can we? Sorry, how can we tell conscious betrayal from cluelessness in the workplace? For example, whether a boss was trying to publicly embarrass me in a meeting or just stating a disagreement in strong terms, it’s going to be behavior, it’s going to be behavior. So, if the boss is stating in strong terms that it’s a disagreement. And it felt like an embarrassment to you, I would go to the boss and just be like, you know, all you had to say was I disagree. I would have gotten it. Just and then, if they do it again after you’ve made them aware of it, now we’ve got a pattern of behavior. So once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three or more is a pattern of behavior. And that’s the way I run my life. So, you know, it’s like, give him the benefit of the doubt once bring it to their attention. If they do it again. Isn’t that interesting? And if it happens after that, nope, this is who they are. Does that make sense? So, with a healthy, normal person bringing it to their attention once is enough because there’ll be like, Oh my gosh, that’s not what I wanted to do. I don’t want to hurt you, and I don’t want to harm you. I don’t want to embarrass you. I want to keep you on this team. I’m really sorry. Let me make sure I don’t do that again. But if they do it again after you brought it to their attention, that should be throwing some red flags. So yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um, and that goes for any time you feel harmed. It’s like, if it was truly cluelessness, and the person is brought to the person’s attention, they will give a true, sincere apology, which is Oh, my God, I hurt you. I am so sorry. I did not mean to. That was not my intent. I will make sure that this does not happen in the future. What can I do to mend the relationship? That’s a true apology. Anything less than that? If they throw it back on you. If it will, you did this, and you did that? Ah, that’s a narcissistic apology that tells you right there in there who you are dealing with. Believe them the first time. So yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Kris Godinez  46:05

What to do when PTSD is an anxiety disorder. I’m working on emotional regulation. Someone in my life refused to educate themselves and keep retriggering with invalidation. Shut up and relax. Oh, my God, no, that does not help. Okay. So, it depends on a lot of things. Because I’m not quite sure of the context, I will go back and finish reading the rest of the question. So, a lot of clueless people, when somebody is being triggered, they’ll tell them to calm down. In the history of never has telling somebody to calm down worked seriously. And, in fact, if you want to find my foot up your hind end telling me to calm down, you know what I’m saying? So, you don’t tell somebody to shut up and relax. That’s, that is insulting, that is insulting. And it’s arrogant, and it’s stupid. And it’s something that an abuser would say, boom, something that an abuser would say somebody who’s empathic, somebody who’s kind, somebody who’s caring would be like, are you okay? Breathe? Are you okay? It’s all right. It’s okay, breathe because that we’re not breathing when we’re panicked, right? Or when we’re anxious, we’re not breathing. We’re getting tense. We’re like ready to fight flight freeze or fawn given to the abuser. So, telling somebody to shut up and relax. It’s it just insulted it. They’re, they’re showing you who they are. And if you’ve made them aware of your triggers, and they do it anyway, they’re doing it on purpose, just like I said in the last question, so it’s like, you know,  once is a fluke twice as a coincidence, three or more times as a pattern. So, you know, don’t put up with it. Don’t put up with it. Don’t hang around. Don’t be around it. Okay, let me see if I answered that. Okay, it doesn’t help me having people dismiss me or trivialize their behavior because they’re gaslighting you, Yes. 110% feeling unheard. unseen by these people. It is deliberate, it is insensitive, and then they deny it. So that’s an abuse that’s abuse there that you just gave the definition of gaslighting abuse right there. I feel I go into a dissociated set shutdown. Absolutely. 110%. So, my recommendation there’ll be around these people do not for your mental health, do not these people are beyond your means to change or help, or whatever, because they’re not listening to you. Abusers love to make us feel unheard. And unseen. That’s their intent. They want us to feel powerless. They want us to feel insignificant. They want us to feel minimized. They want us to feel crazy. They want us to feel all the nasties. They want us to feel all the nasties. So, when you’ve told somebody, you know what triggers you, and they do it anyway. And they’ve done it more than once or twice. Do not be around them. Do not be around them. That is a pattern. They’re not going to change. They’re going to continue their behavior of you. Don’t be around them. Seriously. It’s it for your health. Do not be around them. They’re abusive. You just gave the definition of gaslighting abuse, boom, right there. So don’t be around them. It’s not you. It’s them. Get with a good trauma therapist. EMDR is great. Tapping is great. CBT is great. DBT is great. Get to a good trauma therapist and work on the triggers so that you’re not so triggered.

So, somebody was asking me the other day, it’s like, well, do the triggers ever go away? I will say no. I don’t think they ever completely go away. But I do think that our response to them is less. What’s the word I’m looking for? It’s less I was going to say violence. I guess it’s less, you know, it’s less urgent, or it’s less feeling so life and death, okay? The triggers are always going to be there. Like I said, every once in a while, I’ll get hit with a trigger about trust, and oh boy, I get really triggered, but at least I’m aware of it now. And I can be, like, verbalizing it and going, Holy cow. I just got triggered by this. Let’s talk. Right. But I think a lot of our triggers, I mean, I have a startle response still. But it’s not it’s not a startle response followed by a scream. It’s usually just okay. It’s okay. So, I think they lesson a little bit or responses to the triggers lessens a little bit, but I don’t think they ever really truly go away. I really don’t because it’s ingrained in our amygdala, you know, oh, that’s a threat. Okay, we got to do something, you know. So, um, yeah. Okay, hold on. Give me a good trauma therapist. I think that’s going to help you the most.

Okay, what to do with tension when people break things, yell, and shift the blame? They know you have traumatic history; they don’t mind displaying and then denying poor behavior that causes you more issues. Get away from it. Absolutely. If it’s a work environment, find a different work environment. If it’s a family situation, go no contact. Absolutely. 100% they’re showing you who they are. That that whole denying it. That’s gaslighting. Yeah. Or getting defensive when you point out the behavior that’s get away from them. They’re bad juju.

Alright, how do you stop dreaming of the betrayal? I got cheated on two years ago by a narcissist in new supply. I still dream in detail about our last argument very triggering. I would write it out. literally write it out, like exactly what you’re seeing, what you’re dreaming about the event, etc. And then Daydream it differently. Say what you need to say. So, I one time had a dream, excuse me, when I was young, I was probably, Yeah, many young adults, maybe 20s. And in my dream, and this was the most wonderful dream, I tied up all my family members, and I told them exactly what I thought it felt so good. And so, I talked it over with my therapist, and she was like, Well, this is what you wanted to say that you couldn’t say. So my recommendation with that particular traumatic dream is write it out. Go back through Daydream it and see exactly what you want to say. Or even write out what you want to say, turn it into a script, turn it into a movie, turn it into whatever, but redo it. So, you’re saying what you need to say and betrayal. Like I said, it’s not just emotional. It’s not just psychological, it’s physiological. So, taking your power back, just even just daydreaming that you got to say exactly what you needed to say, will help you start taking your power back. Also, again, get with a good trauma therapist. What is it about this, that your subconscious keeps playing over and over and over again? Now, it could be a couple of things. It could be unresolved, right? Because it’s just leaving abuse is literally like one of those stupid coffee commercials from the 70s. So, there was this coffee commercial that never ended. It was, I can’t remember was a Folgers? I can’t remember anyway. It was this little song that went da, da, da, da, da, da and it just went on and on and on, and it never stopped.

Kris Godinez  53:41

So, we tend to replay stuff over and over and over again because there’s no period on it. Well, there’s never going to be a period on it. You’re never going to get what you want or need from the abuser, whether it’s a parent, a boss, a coworker, a friend, a lover, or whatever, they’re never going to take responsibility because they’re douchebags. So, in they’re incapable of it. And they won’t. Or they could they won’t. They’re ego won’t let them because they’re 100% ego up here. So, you’ve got to put the period on it. What do you need from that scene? What would help you feel better about that scene? What is incomplete? So, dream it back through? Do a conscious dreaming, do a daydream of it, dream it back through work through what do you need? What are you not getting? What do you need? Why does that keep popping up? Because two years later, yeah, I can kind of see that. It takes about three years to work it all out of our systems. But specifically, what is that about? Is it that you didn’t get something you needed? Was there something you wanted to say? You know, what, what are you working on here? There’s something going on. Okay. Um, okay, so All right. So yeah, you want to work that through and get with a good trauma therapist, so that would be my suggestion for that.

Okay, kids. That is it for today. Um, I can’t remember Want to talk to you about next week, so I’ll mention it in Wednesday’s video. So, you guys go have a great day behind yourselves. Drink plenty of water. Remember, I am going to be in Santa Barbara this weekend. If you don’t get tickets by Thursday night, I am not going to be available. So, you won’t be able to go is what I’m trying to say. I’m also going to be in Vancouver, BC in May 20. So, I will be there. Thank you, guys, so much. Please share these videos with people that you know need them. Subscribe, like, etc. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, you guys. Be good to yourself. And don’t forget to do your work. Work on self-esteem. Trust your gut. You’ve got this, okay. All right, my loves be good, and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so, personal appearances. I will be in Santa Barbara, on February 18th. So, we’ll put that up on the krisgodinez.com for tickets for that. Um, what else? I’m going to be in Florida in December. I’m going to bring Moana with me there. And I’m going to bring Moana along with me to Santa Barbara So, that’ll be cool. Um, let’s see what else can I tell you? Thinking, thinking. Oh, and then of course, Vancouver, I’m going to be in Vancouver is Moana will not be with me in Vancouver, but Vancouver BC in May. So, if you want to see where I am showing up for meet and greets, just go to Krisgodinez.com. And there will be all the meet and greets there. And Andy I would like that left in so people can know where to go.

All right, current events. So, I am so happy that mental health stuff is starting to be addressed in the media.

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I’m not happy about the latest shooting, there was another shooting in California, which I’m just like, oh my god, people stop. So again, I’m sure some mental health issue going on there. And you know what I think about that. So, there’s that, but on the good sides. Like that’s the bad news. Here’s the good news. The good news is, is in the new Puss in Boots movie post has a total panic attack, and they show it and it kind of it really lets people know this is what a panic attack feels like. So, he’s unable to do the things that he normally does, because he’s getting older. He’s an older kitty. And he’s like running through the forest. And he finally collapses and all he can hear is his heartbeat. And so, this little dog that’s a therapy dog comes up and lays his head on his chest. And as his heartbeats start slowing down, he starts petting the dog and he starts calming down. But you can hear the breathing and the heart beating and things like that. It’s like that is a great representation of what it feels like to have a panic attack. So, I just thought that was really nice that they’re kind of like yes, this does happen. Yes, this is what it feels like. And this is to help people understand this is what it feels like, so I thought that was great. So go see Puss in Boots, the newest one. I’ve always loved that character. “Am Puss in boots!”  I always loved that. I always thought that was so funny. Anyway, so that is my current events. On the one hand, there’s still bad things happening. And on the other hand, there’s good things happening. And I think that the more we talk about panic attacks, mental health issues, etc., etc., etc. And the more we realize we’ve got to do something to help people that have mental illness so that all of us are safe. That would be good. That would be good. I know I’m repeating myself anyway, there that is so go see Puss in Boots. I thought that was really good. And as a total side note, I went to go see Plane, the one with Gerard Butler. Oh my God, it was actually a good movie. Usually, I’m not thrilled with his movies because he picks some really weird movies. But this one was fun. This was a fun movie. It was Gerard Butler. And he does normal Scottish accent which I was just like, Yay, team. That was awesome. So yeah, good when we go see it. Anyway, there is that.

Okay, let’s dive into today’s topic down in the dumps, or is it something more serious? So, depression, clinical depression versus, you know, just feeling down? Alright. So, when we come out of an abusive relationship, it is a roller coaster, I think is the best way to put it. So, they’re doing the devalue and discard. They’re lying to us. They’re telling us all these horrible things about ourselves that are not true. And we believe them because

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we loved them, and we, you know, expect them to treat us like we treat them, which is not the case, obviously. So, we come out of that relationship, we realize, Okay, we’re done. We don’t want to be treated like that anymore. We’re leaving. And we get out. And there’s a sense of relief. But there’s also this sense of absolute self-doubt. Absolute not feeling good about yourself, absolute not trusting yourself absolute, you know, all sorts of, you know, second-guessing, did I do the right thing? Oh my god, did I just throw away the love of my life? No, you didn’t! No, you didn’t, you did not throw away the love of your life that person does not love.

So, we have all of these mixed emotions. And there’s a difference between feeling down and being clinically depressed. So, feeling down feeling, feeling depressed, feeling sad, feeling hopeless, feeling all of that on a temporary level is normal. So, when I say temporary, I mean, like, less than three to six months, okay? That would be normal. If it lasts longer than that, and it is most of the day every day, and it is impairing your functioning. In other words, your thoughts are so unrelentingly negative that you’re not even able to get up and take a shower, feed yourself do things like that. That’s clinical depression because the brain, at this point, is unable to produce the feel-good chemicals.

What are the feel-good chemicals? So, feel-good chemicals are norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, all of those things. And so, when we, you know, go for a jog, all of those released our brain or our brain goes, Oh, that feels really good. Or we eat a good meal. Oh, that tastes really good. Or, you know, have great sex. Oh, that’s really good. Yeah, it all releases. But when we’re clinically depressed, nothing makes the brain produce enough of those feel-good chemicals for us to feel good. So, it’s, it’s such a roller coaster for survivors of abuse, because we do feel depressed most of the day, every day for a very, very, very long time. Especially if we’re dealing with court stuff. It’s, it is so hard, especially for people who are divorcing because or have a custody battle. Because if it’s just a single person getting rid of an abuser, it is so much easier to just go no contact. That’s it. We’re done. Don’t contact me. Here’s a restraining order back off. What was that shirt I saw the other day Bibbity boppity back off? So, I thought that was really cool. Anyway, um, you know, so it’s done.

But if you’re divorcing a narcissist, if you are divorcing an abuser, if you’ve got children together if you’ve got property together if you’ve got anything of value together, because they do use children as something to be used. So, because we mean nothing more to them than a pen, I don’t have one around. But if I could hold a pen that we mean nothing more to them to the pen, so everything is to be used. So, what they do is they drag it out. Meanwhile, we’re going through this healing process that with I think, How do I explain this? In a healthy breakup? And yes, there are healthy breakups with people that are not disordered, and healthy break up and go your own way. Everything’s, you know, relatively okay. There’s no nastiness, there’s no, you know, smearing there’s no, you know, up and down, discard, devalue, blah, blah. It’s mutually agreed. We’re not working out. We need to find somebody that does fit us better. You know, I wish you well, Hasta. And then you split, and you go your ways. And that’s it. With an abuser. It is never that simple. They will, if there’s no children to fight over, they’ll fight over the dog. If there’s no dog to fight over, they’ll fight over the toaster. If there’s no toaster to fight over, they’ll fight over the car. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like they find a way to keep that messed up dysfunctional connection to the target of abuse, even though they’re saying I hate you. I don’t want anything to do with you. You’re this. You’re that. You guns, even though they’re doing that they do want some sort of control over the target of abuse because it gives them their jollies. They get off on it. So, in a healthy breakup, it’s kind of like, you know, okay, here I am, and I’m slowly getting better, and everything’s great. When we’re having to deal with an abuser. It’s like, okay, I’ve left the abuser, everything’s great. And now they’re calling me and fussing about the children’s shoes or something. So, then we slide back down, and then everything starts going great. And now they’re smearing me to my boss.

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Okay, and everything’s going great, and now they’re doing something else and we’re sliding back down. So, it’s not a linear, you know, like a, like a takeoff. It’s like we don’t ever get to take off. Because these jerks are constantly dragging us back. It’s almost like, remember the godfather? Remember when he’s like, you know, I tried to get out and they just keep dragging me back! That is what it’s like to be with an abuser. They just keep dragging us back. They don’t really want us to be completely without them. Now, that is not because they love us. Let us be very clear. And a lot of people really, really, oh my gosh, really confused that. So, I was reading something the other day in one of the forums, and this person was asking a question. And they were like, you know, I realized that my partner is abusive, and a narcissist, and this and that and the other thing, I’ve gone no contact, I’ve stopped, and now all of a sudden, they’re saying, oh, I want to go to therapy. Oh, I want to do that. No, they don’t change. They say that to drag you back. We’ve talked about that. And that’s another reason why we have such down, down moods down, down, down, down. So, it’s not, it is not easy what we are doing, leaving, it is not, and you also kind of get on that pink cloud when you finally get rid of the abuser and everything’s great.

And we’re feeling great about it. And then we start having to process all of the trauma, all of the abuse, all the lies, all of the devalue, discard everything. It’s not easy. It is not easy. And I just want to validate that it… this is 10 times harder than a normal breakup. It is 100,000 times harder than a normal breakup. It is not a take-off. Like it would be if you were in a healthy relationship, it is more of a get-going fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback. Get going, fallback, but you are climbing, you just don’t realize it because you keep getting dragged back so much. They will do everything they can to keep you in that unhappy state. They’re, oh, they’re only happy if it rains. Seriously. They’re only happy if you’re miserable. They’re only happy if you’re suffering and if you’re not doing as well as they are, which they love to put on to Facebook and everything else.

So situational depression is what a lot of survivors have. If it weren’t for the damn abuser, you’ll be great. You’ll be like, Okay, this is over. We’re done. We’re moving forward. Everything’s good. But these jerks keep dragging us back with court, with nasty letters, nasty emails, nasty texts, nasty phone calls, etc., etc., etc. My recommendation is do not talk to them on the phone. Even if you have children together, the phone is to be used for emergencies only. I mean, somebody needs to be on the ground bleeding, seriously! Because abusers will go oh, it’s an emergency and then get the target of abuse on the phone and use that as the opportunity to just beat the living crap out of them verbally. If they can’t do it physically, they’ll do it verbally. So.

So situational depression is what we’ve got. So situational. The situation sucks. Let’s be clear. This is not fun. This is not great. We’re dealing with all the lies. We’re dealing with the realization that the person we fell in love with never existed. That’s a mind, huh? You know what I’m saying? It absolutely messes with your mind because it’s kind of like, but this is how they were. And I wanted them to go back to that, well, no, there was that was not real. What’s real is the way they treated you the rest of the relationship. So situational depression, though, we come out of that relationship, and we’re continually having to deal with their nastiness, especially if we’ve got a kid. So, if we’re terrified about what’s going on over their house when our child has to go over there 50% of the time, I hate the frickin court system, I… we’re going to be anxious, we’re going to be depressed, we’re going to be sad, we’re going to be scared. And we’re going to have to undo whatever they did with that kid over there when they come back home. So, it’s unrelenting. So, I just want to let you know it’s like situational depression. If it’s unrelenting, which in a lot of our cases has been turns into clinical depression because the body just finally goes, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do this. I cannot do this anymore.

So, I definitely wanted to talk about this because it’s, it’s not… Situational depression usually goes away. It is just like in it in a regular divorce, and yes, there are regular divorces. The divorce ends the one person goes their way the other person goes the other way. Or if they share kids, they’re at the center; they’re putting the kid first. That’s never going to happen with a narcissist ever. So, it’s kind of like this ongoing, just never-ending nastiness that just goes on and on and on and on and on until that child reaches 18. So, if you’ve got a little, little one, and you’re in the middle of this divorce, and you’re wondering why you’re not feeling good, and you’re wondering what is the word I’m looking for it, you’re not happy, or you’re not, you know, things don’t bring you joy, or you’re constantly, you know, looking over your shoulder, you know, what’s, what’s next. It’s because of their constant abuse. They are guys. They abuse the legal system; they abuse the legal system. And I’ve talked about this before. I’ve seen them drag people to court for 12-plus years. And it’s unrelenting. And they’re petty and immature, and they don’t want to let things go. And they use the kid as a pawn. And we’re focused on the well-being of the kid. So yeah, we’re going to have anxiety and depression. And it’s going to continue as long as they are allowed to continue to use the justice system as an abuse by proxy. And that’s exactly what this is.

So yes, we can have situational depression because yes, it’s normal to be sad and down when a relationship ends, it’s normal to be questioning when a relationship ends, it’s normal to… you know, not feel your best or not feel, you know, on top of your game, when relationships in, it’s like, 1000 times worse when it’s with an abuser, because they’ve lied, and they’re going to continue to lie, and they’re not going to leave you alone to heal. So, it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like, you bump your, you bump your leg up against a piece of furniture, right? Well, if that furniture gets moved goes away, you get rid of it, you don’t bump your leg up against it, and it doesn’t continually get hurt. With an abuser, it’s almost as if, okay, you bump your leg up against it, it starts to heal, it starts to scar over, you’ve kind of found a way to move around it. And suddenly, that piece of furniture is right where you’re bumping your leg again. I mean, that’s the best analogy I can make. And then it breaks open the scar, and then we’re bleeding. And then we’re you know, and it’s, it’s really important to sit down with a good trauma therapist, whether that’s CBT, DBT, EMDR, whatever, get with a good trauma therapist to work through the mistaken thoughts, and the mistaken beliefs that you are still processing every single time this person comes in, and bumps open that scar, and that’s what’s happening.

So, we never get a chance to heal. It’s like we start healing, and then it gets hit again, or we start healing, and then they do something else, or they we start healing, and then this, so yes, situational. Depression is temporary situational is temporary. So, like, you lose your job. You know, okay, it’s temporary. I can go find another job. This is depressing, but and I can find another form of employment, you know what I’m saying? Or you get a divorce. Relationships in Okay, well, that’s, you know, this is sad, and we’re just moving on into another phase of our life. But with these guys, it’s unrelenting. It’s like it never stops until legally they have to. They’re abusers, their stalkers.

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A lot of times, they attract other minor narcissists to them. Like they get remarried. And now there’s a stepmom involved, and lo and behold, she’s an abuser, too. Isn’t that interesting? And so now the two of them are targeting you and your kid. So yes, if there is a reason why you are feeling the way you are feeling, and yes, we do go through that kind of pink cloud. At times when we’re like, Oh, thank God, I’m away from there, everything’s great. And then they do something, and then it just knocks us right off. Which is why I’m saying you’ve got to get with a good therapist.

So, here’s the signs and symptoms of depression. Hold on. This was from the Mayo Clinic. All right, signs and symptoms. Hold on. Okay. So, feelings of sadness, tearfulness, fearfulness, emptiness, or hopelessness. Well, yeah, we’ve just been through an abusive relationship. We’re going to feel that. Angry outbursts, irritability, or frustration, even over small matters. Okay, that is a part of PTSD as well. See, this is why I’m saying it’s like, and of course, you have society that’s like, Oh, get over it, which I’m just like, oh, please let me just give you my middle finger right now. Because you’re not just going to get over it. Thank you very much. Loss of interest in pleasure in most or all normal activities such as sex, hobbies or sports. Yes. We’re going to go through that sleep disturbance, including insomnia or sleeping too much. Yes, we’re going to go through that too. Tiredness or lack of energy, and even small tasks take extra effort, reduced appetite and weight loss, or increased cravings for comfort food and weight gain. Yeah, anxiety, agitation, or restlessness. Yes. Slowed thinking, speaking, or body movements. Yes. Feelings of worthlessness or guilt fixating on the past or self-blame. Absolutely. We’re going to do that. Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions, and remembering things. Yes, that is a part of depression, frequent or recurrent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicidal attempts, or suicide. Sometimes, yeah, unexplained physical problems, physical issues, you know, fibromyalgia headaches, backaches, you know, things like that.

So, it’s confusing because we do get all of those symptoms. Now, the key is, how do you know it’s clinically depressed? How do you know that it’s the difference between situational which lasts three to six months, and then clinically depressed? So clinically depressed is okay; the term clinical depression is used commonly in conversation to cover a wide range of mood disruptions, from momentary sadness to prolonged hopelessness. Clinical Depression is a medical term that is reserved for the more serious forms of that disorder, also called major depression. People who are clinically depressed experience a number of symptoms in addition to unremitting sadness or disinterest, such as sleep problems and appetite disturbances, and their thinking is so unrelentingly negative that their ability to carry out everyday functions is seriously impaired. And they cannot envision a bright future. And that’s every day, most of the day, for six months. So, if that’s if you’re going on like that, and it’s every day, most of the day, for three to six months, you might want to start looking at some sort of intervention

Okay, now, I’m not a huge fan of pharmaceuticals; you guys know that. So that’s why I’m saying getting to a talk therapist, getting to EMDR, getting into DBT, CBT. Something to help you process all of the thoughts, all of the feelings, all of the sadness, all of the hopelessness, all of the, you know, devalue and discard, and everything that’s going on is going to help. It’s so funny; people are like I don’t want to be talking about it, because it makes me think about it. Well, what are you doing anyway? You’re thinking about it? Anyway, you are. And even if you’re not consciously thinking about it, if you’re shoving it underneath the rug, your rug is going to get really lumpy and really vacuum. So, you don’t want to resist it, but you also don’t want to get into it. So, in other words, when you are feeling what you’re feeling, you are going to feel depressed, and you’re going to feel all of those symptoms that I just listed when this relationship finally breaks up. Because it’s an unhealthy relationship. So instead of resisting it or making yourself wrong, or whatever, you acknowledge it, yes, I am feeling sad. Yes, I am doubting myself. Yes, I am not wanting to do the dishes. Yes, I am second-guessing everything, you know, and though recognize that you do have power. They don’t. Yes, you are feeling awful right now, and work with a therapist so that you can process it through. Okay? If we resist it if we go no, no, no, no, no. I’ve got too much to do. I can’t. I got to No, no, no, I’m not going to think that I’m not going to be thinking about I’m not going to think of it. I’m not thinking about I’m not thinking about now. What am I doing?

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You may tell yourself you’re not thinking about it, but you’re thinking about it, especially if you’re continuing to feel drained, continuing to feel depressed, continuing to feel down, not wanting to get up out of bed, not wanting to take care of yourself. That’s why it’s really important. So, some things that help with that talk therapy, like I said, EMDR is great. CBT is great for mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, getting your body moving. Honestly, I swear to God and all this holy, these Jack wagons want us dead they do. And what I find in almost all survivors of abuse is they hit a point where they just want to curl up into a ball and just never move. Just don’t come out of it. Just you know, and I’m just going to stay right here where it’s safe. And I don’t want to move, and I don’t want to exercise. I don’t want to, you know, go out, and I don’t want to talk to people, and I don’t. Well, that’s exactly what they want. That is exactly what those asshats want. They want us to curl up into a ball and die. They do. Don’t give them the satisfaction. So, exercise is hugely important. Get forcing yourself to get up. Get out go do things.

Go talk to trusted friends. If you cannot afford therapy, get the workbooks, get any and all of the workbooks and start working that go for walks, go for walks, seriously. Find people who are supportive. There are good support groups out there. Yes, there are abusers that like to troll those groups. But I think you can pretty much tell when it’s an abuser. At least I can. So, you know, you’ve got to do things to help yourself because they do want us to stop living. And they want us to stop feeling, and they want us to stop being happy. That makes them happy. If they’re, if we’re miserable, that makes them happy. So, the time for some sort of medical intervention is if you cannot, literally cannot get up out of bed, you’re having a hard time going to work, you’re not taking care of yourself, you’re not eating, you’re not sleeping, all of that stuff, then that’s when we need to do some sort of intervention, if exercise is not cutting it, if it’s not bringing up the dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, etc. If that’s not cutting it, then you’ve got to do something.

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You know, you could try Eastern medicine. I’m a big fan of Eastern medicine, acupuncture, acupressure, you know, different herbs, etc. You could try that. If that doesn’t cut it, then you’re going to need to look at traditional Western medicine. The other thing that I think people don’t talk about is depression and anxiety; in leaving an abusive relationship tend to go hand in hand. Because it’s like we’re anxious all the time. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like we’re waiting for that shoe to drop. Or we’re waiting for, like, what’s next? What are they going to do now? Kind of think or, Oh, my God, is my little one okay. Over the ex’s house, are they safe? Are they being abused? Are they, you know, all these questions? And so, anxiety goes hand in hand with the depression. So, you’re going to want to work on literally both and what does that involve? That involves dealing with mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs. And or it’s like, okay, how do I calm myself How do I soothe myself? Yoga is great. Again, that’s a way to get moving. Tai Chi is great. Again, that’s a way to get moving. It’s not really stressful on the body.

And so, it’s, it’s acknowledging, yes, I am a nervous wreck. Yes, I am terrified when my child goes over to my ex’s house. Yes, I wish I could control what’s happening, and I can’t. And that’s terrifying to a lot of survivors because our control was taken away from us by an abuser. And now we’ve got a child where, okay, 50% of the time, I have no control. Great. So, it’s really important to work on yourself. That kid needs you. That kid needs you. Oh my god, that kid needs you. So, work on the self-esteem Workbook, CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker. And if you notice the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and depressive depression, major depression very similar hello. So um, yeah. So that, that is something to think about. And like I said, it’s really and we’re coming out of this addiction, we have been addicted to the abuser, not to the abuse, to the abuser, you know, and when we realized that that person was real, and we have to go on without who we thought they were. And when we start realizing no, they never loved us. No, they were never real. No, they really didn’t care what happened to us. They didn’t, you know, it’s devastating. It is devastating, which is why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist, please, please, please get with a good trauma therapist. If you’re having any of these symptoms, you got to do something; you can’t just do nothing; you got to do something. It is harder for it to resolve on its own. Okay, like if it was a healthy breakup, I would say okay, eventually, this will resolve on its own. This is not going to resolve on its own because it’s this continual waiting for the shoe to drop. So, I hope that explains the difference between clinical and situational.

So situational is like it’s a situation. It changes. You get better because the situation stops, or you go on to something else or whatever. Clinical is where it’s unrelenting. The thoughts are unrelenting, they’re negative, and you just cannot function. That is clinical depression. And we do have depression when we come out of these relationships, especially as we are healing and recognizing all of the betrayal, all of the lies, all of the nastiness, the duplicity, the cheating the smearing, you know, it is. it is depressing, it is so, and like I said, anxiety goes hand in hand with that. So, it’s not uncommon to come out of a nasty abusive relationship with both depression and anxiety. And like I said, though, I would prefer that natural things be done first. First, let’s see if we can resolve it with exercise diet. You know, drinking plenty of water, talking to good friends doing the books, etc. And then if none of that works and then look at Western medicine, so there is that. Oh, Kay, let’s dive into a question. Okay, let me make this big so I can read it.

Okay. Would they fight over things? When weight? Would they fight over? A fight over when things need to be done? Oh, would they fight over when things need to be done? Yes, absolutely. Like specific time for medication to be administered? Yes, absolutely. Because they’re control freaks. They want the power and control of when to do it. Meaning do they want? They want to change the times? Yeah. Because they need it on their terms? Absolutely. I cannot tell you the number of times I have had

a spouse have you know, a child that needed medication, and the other spouse will either intentionally sabotage or not give them medication at all, period. Oh, they don’t need it. You know, my no child of mine needs therapy, no child of mine needs antihistamines, no child, because they’re crazy. Let’s just be, let’s just be clear here. They’re crazy. And they’re control freaks. And if they can’t deny the medication because they get in trouble with the court, then they will control when the medication is trying to be given. Because it’s all about power and control. They are so insane. I mean, it’s just, it’s incomprehensible. Because when you think of the kid, when I think of a kid, it’s like what is in the child’s best interest. They don’t care. What’s in the child’s best interest, what they want, is to show you that they are in control and charge, and you have no control over what they do. And that they are the God as far as giving medication is concerned. Absolutely. They do that way book. Absolutely. They do that. So yeah, it is it illegal? No, because, you know, you, I mean, proving that they’re not getting the medication on time, only if you have them in text or an email, you know, saying, basically, Screw you, I’m not going to do this medication at this time, or screw you, I’m not going to do this medication at all. And then even at that, I’ve seen judges just, you know, who don’t want to do it. And they just ignore that because they don’t know what they’re doing. And they don’t consider that part of the abuse. Okay, hello. That’s part of the abuse. Let’s be clear. So, messing with the kid’s medication. Absolutely. That is abusive. That is that is abusive, but trying to get the court system to see that is like pulling teeth because they’re like, Oh, well, an hour or two won’t matter. And I’m like, Oh my God, that’s not what this is about. You stupid…. Don’t even get me started. Oh my god, seriously, that judges need to be educated in what is abuse and how these guys think, and what they do. I’m sorry, they just do it. Just Oh my God. Don’t get me started. Too late. Okay. Yes, they do that. They want the power in the control and randomly, even if it’s hurtful, yes. They don’t care if the child is not the number one issue. I think they get off on that. Yes, like in Munchausen by proxy. Yeah. I feel like my aunt took my cousin’s disabilities as a chance to gain more attention for all of the hard work she put in. Meanwhile, she overmedicated and then used the disability to have abusive control 110%. Absolutely it remember they are attracted to positions of power. So, in that case, it would be over a child over somebody who’s disabled. Oh my god, you know, over somebody who maybe has dementia, the elderly, that kind of thing. I see so much narcissistic abuse in those areas. Because they’re attracted to that it’s they’re ultimately powerful because the person can’t say anything because they’re either a minor or they’re disabled. And they can’t say anything. Or they’re diminished. They have dementia, and they can’t say anything. So, it’s all about power and control for them. Yes, Munchausen by proxy, happens all the time. And yes, they do mess with medications. It’s crazy. They do. I… there’s been cases of the narcissistic parent taking the medication that was supposed to go to the kid and using it to get high.

So yeah, they’re just they’re jacked like it’s so in cases like that. The only thing you can do would be to call if they’re an adult, you call Adult Protective Services, which is just about as useless as child protective services. But that’s really the only thing you can do.

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I mean, you got to get evidence that there’s abuse going on. You’ve got to get evidence that they’re going against the court order. And even if that, if you get a judge, that’s a frickin moron, they’re not going to do anything about it, which is so angering to me. It just it makes me angry. It’s like, why are you in this court system? If you’re not going to enforce the what’s in the what’s in the divorce decree? Why are you even hearing this case? If you’re a narcissist yourself, and you’re just going to agree with the abuser, and you don’t consider the things they’re doing abuse because those were abuse? They’re not trained, they have zero training in abuse, they have zero training and how these Jack wagons think or do or whatever. I mean, I’ve seen prosecutors that had more savvy knowledge of psychology than judges. So don’t get me started. Too late. I know. Oh, my God. Anyway, there, that is all right.

Next question. Chris, can you please suggest tips to end cognitive dissonance and break a trauma bond with a parental figure once and for all? I am so sick of the constant push-pull dynamic. Okay. So again, I would recommend getting with a trauma therapist to help you. Cognitive dissonance is really the trauma bond is really hard to break it is because it’s that fear. It’s that obligation. And it’s that guilt. And so, when incoming information does not match what we want to believe, boy, howdy, that inner child takes over and kicks out the incoming information. No, no, no, no, no, mom and dad are really good. Nope, they’ve got my back. Nope, everything’s fine. No, it’s okay. Oh, it’s all good. So, I talked about that in what’s wrong with your dad. Because my dad was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And so, it was my mom. But anyway, I talked about it in here. And the really, the way to break it is you’ve got to write it out. You write out every single thing that that person has done to you. And you talk it over with a good trauma therapist because, like, Okay, so for example, so I have clients that do that, especially with parental units, it’s like when the when the parent was the abuser. It’s really hard because that inner child so badly wants to be loved and accepted and taken care of and treated the way they should have been that the inner child suddenly takes over. And the next thing we know, we’re going over to their house to have Sunday dinner even though we know it’s going to end in a complete knockdown drag-out fight. So Inner Child Workbook, Catherine Taylor, that’s going to help you if you don’t like the Catherine Taylor one, there is the Lucia Cappacchione one, or the Catherine Taylor one is more experiential. So, the Catherine Taylor one goes through each developmental age. And she has you do things like, you know, rock yourself as a baby. How does that feel? Or spread out a blanket or something on the ground, grab some applesauce, slather it in your hair. I personally enjoyed that. That was fun. So obviously, nothing happened as a toddler. But then going into the young child, you know, six to 10, Oh, that’s when things started getting weird. And that’s when things started popping up. So, it’s experiential. And I really liked I really like experiential things because I find that it helps me go through, and you know, work things out. The Luccia Cappachione one is you write with your non-dominant hand the child’s stuff. And with your dominant hand, you write the adult stuff. And that’s another great way to get it out. It’s just coming at it from different angles. So, I would say the Inner Child Workbook, either by Catherine Taylor or Lucia Cappacchione. Get with a good trauma therapist write out everything they did to write it out. Because isn’t it funny how we suddenly like deer in the headlight and we blank out? dissociate? We blank out. We’re like, oh, no, it’s fine. I’m going over for Sunday dinner. No, everything’s great. No, mom and dad love me. No, they’ve got my back. Oh, it’s going to be different this time. What? No, it’s not. And breaking that bond is really important, especially if the parent parental units. I like to call them parental units because they’re not parents. I’ll tell you that much. are abusive, verbally abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, financially abusive, religiously abusive, you name it abusive. No, thank you. So, write it out so that you can see it, and work with a trauma therapist CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker, start working in regard to your parents. Get the Inner Child Workbook in regard to your parents.

39:28

Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, start working on your self-esteem people who love themselves do not put up with that at all, period. I mean, when I was in my young 20s, I literally it’s like I had to leave and get out of the near vicinity because if I was anywhere near there, they would harangue me to come visit and come stay and come to that I finally was like, I need to be 1000 plus miles away. So, I did, you know, and that was the start of my healing I mean, it would have been, I’m sure if I’d had better self-esteem at the time, I probably could have stood up and said no, but at that time I wasn’t that strong. So, you know, self-esteem helps because it helps us break that codependency that need to take care of Disease to Please Harriet Breaker read it great book and breaking that codependency, being able to stand up for yourself and say no and mean it and not feel guilty. So anytime anyone makes us feel fearful, obligated, or guilty, they’re toxic. They’re toxic. You’re dealing with somebody toxic who is manipulative. So, the best way to break that is to write out everything that happened to you and have a chat with the inner child. When I was six, this happened. Okay, six-year-old me, Listen, I love you. I got your back. We don’t need mom and dad anymore. We need us. They’re never going to be the parent that we wanted and needed. And that boy, howdy, that hits a lot of people right in the gut. When they finally realize it’s like, oh, my parent is never going to love me, my parent is never going to accept me, my parent is never going to be the parent I need it. You know, and we ourselves have to become the parent that we wanted and needed. You have to reparent yourself. And that is where the self-esteem stuff comes in. That is where the mirror work comes in. So, when you’re looking in the mirror, and you’re saying hi, good to see you have a great day, that is you re parenting you because that’s what a good parent does when they see their child. Okay. So yeah, this is going to sound silly, but with Moana, my dog, you know, we’ve been working with her. She’s now leash trained, which is awesome. And we finally got her to sleep on the bed. And frankly, I cannot wait for her to wake up in the morning. I really can’t. I don’t have kids. I have a dog. So, when my dog wakes up in the morning, I’m like, Hi. Good to see you. How are you doing? Did you sleep? Good? You know, that’s what parents do to kids, too. I did that to all my nieces and nephews. I’m sure they think I’m very bizarre, but they have a good sense of self-esteem. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s good parents acknowledge and validate their kids when they see them first thing in the morning. Okay. We need to start doing that for ourselves. Because honestly, how many of us wake up in the morning and go, Oh, God, today is going to suck. And then it does. Because we’ve primed our subconscious. It’s going to be a rotten day and why do we do that? Well, where did we learn from? My dad was the one that was constantly like, Oh, this is going to be awful. This is going to be terrible. Oh, I’m dreading this day, blah, blah, blah, every day. Every day of his miserable life. And then he couldn’t understand why nobody wanted to be around him. Go figure. So, we need to reparent ourselves, say hello to ourselves the way that we wanted to and needed to when we were kids. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day, I give you permission to stand up for yourself.

43:01

Do you see where I’m going. You give yourself permission to work on whatever it is you need to work on for you and be standing up for yourself. Not falling back into the cognitive dissonance not falling back into the fog. Not going back to mom and dad because that’s never going to give you what you need. I wish it would but it’s not going to. So that is the best way to break that. Okay.

Can depression flare up when going through a medical event? Oh, hell yeah. I had a very painful procedure last week and was verbally abused by a nurse. Oh, bunny, I’m sorry. And now I feel down and scared. Okay, here’s how you’re going to take your power back. I do not put up with nurses that are snarky, nasty, vicious, or doctors Thank you very much. I would report her. Absolutely. Or him, him or her, report them, report them, document it, report them to the board of your state and to the hospital and to the doctor and let them know what they said and what they did and how it made you feel. And okay, they may or may not do anything about it. But at least you’ve said your piece. And I think that is important. And I think for a lot of us, especially with the medical community. There’s a lot of abusers in that field. There’s a lot of abusers in my field. It makes me very angry. Did I mention that? There’s a lot of abusers because it’s a position of power. And they’re if they’re disordered, they’re jaded to the fear that a patient is going through with a very painful procedure. You know, it’s like the best doctors; the best nurses are not nurses. Hello. They’re compassionate. And they are soothing. So, like when I had to have my surgery done when I broke my wrist. Motorcycle accident, long story anyway, when I broke my wrist, my surgeon was great. He was like, here’s what’s going to happen. Here’s what we’re going to do. You’re fine. Everything’s good. I’ll see you in a couple of hours. I was like, okay, you know, it was very comforting, you know? So, when we’re going through something scary our inner child often takes over and we’re terrified, and we need to be comforted. And I think good surgeons and good nurses recognize that bad ones, nurses take advantage of that, and are snarky and nasty and mean and vicious and everything else. And yeah, there’s a lot of them out there. I’ve got several clients that have had trauma because of the medical field. So they weren’t necessarily in an abusive relationship, but they had some procedure done in the hospital, and they were abused by orderlies, nurses, doctors, etc. So yeah, they walk among us they do. My recommendation would be to file a complaint, I would not tolerate that I would absolutely not put up with that. That’s you are not powerless, you can complain. And I would document it out. And I would let the doctor know, I would let the hospital know and I would file a complaint with the board. So, there it is there, is that. Because Ain’t nobody got time to be disappointed to be abused like that. So yeah, and it can come from a medical event? You absolutely bet.

Okay, um, because there is more recognition of mental illness. Do you? Do you foresee or are you starting to see narcissists trying to use this as an excuse for their behavior? More than they were before? And will they try. You’re not wrong? Yeah. And there’s been several sites popping up recently. Kim Saeed has mentioned this a lot, and so has Shahida Arabi, that there’s these places that are going Oh, poor, poor Narcissists, you know, they can change and this that the other thing, and I’m sitting here going, No, they cannot. And they do not. And they will not. And if you go back to them, the abuse is going to be worse. The love bombing will be shorter, and the abuse will be longer. So yeah.Yeah, they absolutely are trying to use psychology. That’s what they do. I’m always very suspicious of people who start doing psychobabble to me, and they’re not a psychologist or a counselor or a psychiatrist. It’s like, this is not your realm of expertise. Why are you talking like that? Yeah, not buying it. So yeah, they absolutely do. They absolutely do. And they do try to pull, you know, oh, I was abused as a child. Okay, well, so we’re the rest of us. And none of us act like Jack wagons. Go have a nice day. Bye. Have a nice day. I mean, go pound sand. So yeah, they tried to do the whole Oh, I have PTSD. And if you want a really great example of that, listen to how a certain director who directed the Avengers behaved after his behavior was pointed out. I think you guys know who I’m talking about. So, yeah, and then claimed that it was PTSD. And I’m just like, No, I don’t think so. So yeah, they will they absolutely try to use it. They absolutely try to, you know, pretend to be the victim because that’s what they do. They’re good at being the victim. So yeah, so absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. And they’ve done it in the past, too. This is nothing new. But I have noticed recently it’s been more pronounced. So yeah.

Um, a lot of people here in India seem to think that suicides can always be prevented with counseling No. Are they right? Or are they being delusional? No, well, suicides, it depends on what’s going on, you know, there’s a lot… wanting to end your life is as varied as anything else in the mental health field. Sometimes it can be helped and sometimes, it can be prevented, and sometimes it cannot. And it’s better to try to prevent it, you know, with counseling and therapy and medication if that’s what’s needed, you know, that kind of thing. There…no, it, if somebody is really truly wanting to end their lives, they’ll do it. Therapy or no therapy. And I’m going to talk about this more in February. There’s… I definitely want to talk about abusers and how they use that to manipulate and control. But the other thing of it is, too, is that when people are that depressed like there’s no abuse, there’s no they’re not abusers. They’re depressed, and they cannot see your way out. Their brains are thinking so negatively that they literally think that’s the only way to feel better. Okay, and I can totally relate because when I was in high school, probably a little younger. I felt totally suicidal living in my parent’s house because my dad was an abuser. He was abusing me, and my mom was just turning a blind eye. So, you know, and I was just kind of like, this is the only way out, oh my god, this is the only way out, and then it was kind of like, I went outside. I sat on this on the slide. I looked up at the stars and the moon, and I kind of went; No, no, no, no, no, no.There’s another way. There’s another way. And what saved me, ironically, was Robin Williams. And what did he end up doing? Killing himself. Go figure. But his comedy is what kept me hanging on. Because it was like, as long as I can laugh, as long as I can find that, I’m going to survive. And that’s what I told myself, and I listened to Monty Python. I listened to Robin Williams, I listened to Steve Martin. I listened to, you know, any comedy album I could get my hands on so that I could keep those endorphins, dopamine, serotonin. I didn’t even know I was doing that. But so that I could feel good in the middle of being abused. And isn’t it funny? My dad hated all those people. So, like, go figure.

So um, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not necessarily that they want to end themselves. They want to end the pain. And finding the source of pain is really going to be helpful and giving them hope, real hope, like look, you do have power look, you can affect change on you. Can’t affect change on other people, but you can affect change on you, can be helpful. Does it help in every case? Do people go on to suicide? Complete suicide? Yeah, they do. And is it brain chemistry? Possibly, you know, is it situational? Possibly, you know, so you do everything you can to help you do everything you can to keep that from happening. So, and again, and this was something that came up recently interesting, you mentioned this, this is something that came up recently with a client of mine, they were like, you know, dealing with an abuser, and then they expressed suicidal thoughts, and I stopped, and I went, who do you really want to kill, and they laughed, it was that recognition laugh. And she was like. I want to kill him so badly. That’s who you want to kill. It’s not you. And I don’t recommend killing him, either. But, you know, it’s an expression, a lot of times of hopelessness and pain and anger. And really, it’s like, the real person they want to kill is the abuser or whoever is causing the problem. And it’s not really that they want to kill them. They just want it to stop. So, getting to the root of it, getting to the root of it. And so, then we went over a safety plan and discussed, you know, all right, do you know, are you serious about this? Do you have…..? No, no, no, no, no, no. And thank you for helping me realize this is what I really want. But no, I don’t really want that. But yeah, that’s why I’m so angry, and then accessing the anger and dealing with the depression and the sadness and the hurt and the betrayal underneath. That was very healing, and that helps them, so you got to have a good therapist that kind of understands what’s driving the suicidal thoughts, you know, what’s driving the ideation? If you’ve got a therapist, that’s just like, Uh huh, oh, there’ll be 100,000 million dollars. They’re not going to help you need a therapist, that’s going to ask the right questions and get to the heart of it. So there that is. Okay, hope that answered the question. Um, I mean, it doesn’t always help you got to have the right therapist and like I said, if there’s brain chemistry going on that’s got to be addressed.

53:07

So there that is why does being unliked make me feel unsafe? Oh, you are not alone. So, codependency, let’s talk about codependency. Codependency is when we realize as a kid that we have to be accepted, liked, or whatever by our caregivers in order to survive. So, codependency happens when we start caretaking, and then they give us food or they give shelter or they give us clothes or they give us whatever, so yeah, it does feel dangerous. It absolutely does. And so, the counter to that is self-esteem. Work on the codependency with the Disease to Please by Harriet Breaker work on the self-esteem with Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Okay. So, as we start recognizing our own worth, and we start validating ourselves, we don’t need somebody else to like us. We need to like us. We need to like us. Not everybody is going to like us guys not to trust me. Not everybody is going to like us. And if we live or fall on, you know, whether somebody likes us or not, we’re going to be miserable all our lives. So, you’ve got to love yourself. You got to like yourself, you got to work on that self-esteem. You got to work on that, hey, I have value, and I have worth, and if this person doesn’t like me, their loss you know, so yeah, that’s why it feels so dangerous is because our survival literally dependent on whoever we had the codependent relationship with. Not abusing us, keeping us safe, giving us food, water, shelter, clothing, etc. That’s why it feels so dangerous. Okay, my loves I am I think, done Hold on. Let me just double-check. Is that the last one? That is the last one, all right. Bye, guys. I am done, you guys. Have a great week. Take good care of yourselves. Bye

55:00

If you’re interested in donating to Patreon, I am back on Patreon because YouTube is being stupid; I think that is it.  Thank you to my sponsor Better Help, and I will talk to you next week. Have a great week, guys

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about it. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or internationally, they will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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The post 01-22-2023 Down in the Dumps appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hi, guys. So today kind of exciting. We are finally getting another dog. Yay. So, we went through a rescue. And it’s she’s a collie mix. Shirt. We’re naming her Moana Her name was honest. So, I’m naming her Moana. So, we’re doing that. Very excited. Super, super, super excited. We have not had a dog since Scotty passed away in March. So, this is kind of exciting. She’s supposed to get here this afternoon. She’s coming in from the edge of New Mexico, Texas area. So, they’re driving her over, and they’re giving you the updates as she’s coming along. So that’s just I’m so happy. I can’t stand it. Um, but anyway, this leads me into my current events thing.

So, I belong to a bunch of dog groups, because I love dogs. And one of them that I belong to is called Straydar. And so, it posts dogs that are strays that people have found. And they’re taking them to get a microchip check to see if they have an owner and things like that. So, and I don’t know if this is unique to Phoenix, but people tend to dump their dogs in the desert. And you can’t do that. Because here’s the thing, the desert is a hostile environment. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that or not. There’s scorpions, there’s rattlesnakes, there’s coyotes. And there’s the dog fight people that go look for strays in the desert to use the dogs that have been dumped as bait dogs. So, this is a huge problem in the Phoenix area is that they’re constantly people in rescues are always going out into the desert to see if they can find dogs that have been done. Since John and I have lived here, two of our dogs we found because people just dumped them. So, Baba and Scotty, we both found, we took them to the vet, we scan him for chips, try to find the owner posted on all of the you know, pets, 911. And all of the other places and things like that, on no owners ever came forward. So, they became ours, which is great because, hey, more dogs better. So um, anyway, I just want to make people aware dumping the dogs is not always going to end a happy is what I’m basically trying to say. And the only people that dumped dogs like that generally have got a personality disorder, and how I know that is because normal healthy people don’t dump dogs. If you’re going to have to give a dog up, find a rescue, there are rescues for every single breed out there. Okay, find a no-kill shelter more and more than the shelters are becoming no-kill, which is Thank god. Okay, there’s different ways to find a home for your pet that you can no longer take care of. Now I understand financial stuff and things like that. But just dumping a dog, just dumping a cat dumping a tortoise, or dumping it, and that’s a problem too. People just dump pets when they can’t take care of them. And I’m concerned because we’re coming into the Christmas season and what is something that people always buy their kids, a puppy, a kitten, a small tortoise or turtle or a hamster or rat or you know one of those little pets and it’s a lifelong commitment. It is a lifelong commitment, and I get so angry because when we found Scotty, John was out walking Baba, Scotty was running through the green space no collar, no nothing, and walked up to Baba and licked him and that’s how Baba we found Baba had walked up to Kyle our first dog that we got from the Humane Society and looked him, and so we were like, it’s a sign. So, we adopted Scotty after we, you know posted and tried to find the owners and everything else like that. So, you cannot just give an animal for Christmas and expect it to be, you know, disposable. It is, it is a lifelong commitment.

The other thing that I’m seeing a lot of in the street are posts are SR dogs that are being dumped in the shelter because the owners couldn’t handle seeing the dog die of old age or get older or maybe the dog had medical issues or whatever. And again, that screams to be no compassion. How could you, you could no more. If you’ll do it to a dog, you’ll do it to a person. Okay? So, it just be aware, you know, this is a huge issue. If you do see strays, see if you can get them safe. A lot of them. Oh my God, my niece and I were just talking yesterday, she found a pit bull that had been abused and emaciated, starving, and they were able to get it to a no-kill shelter, which was great. So, if you see a stray, here’s what to do. If you can get them, get them to a rescue if you know their breed, or get them to a no-kill shelter, you want to take them to a vet scan them for a chip. But here’s the sad thing. A lot of times what I’m reading on street art, they’re saying, Okay, we scanned the chip, called the number of the person, said they don’t want the dog anymore. I don’t even have words. Why would you go through all the trouble of getting a dog to not keep said dog that makes no sense. So, if you find a dog, a cat that’s obviously being mistreated, or starving or whatever, get it to a vet, scan it for chip. If there’s no chip, and there’s no owner and you’ve posted it on all of the websites, get it to a rescue or get it to a no kill shelter. That is the best thing you can do or keep it if you can, you know, the thing of it is though, is that there’s so many dogs out there, it’s like every day I’m seeing you know, like 35/40 dogs a day on street are and I’m just like there’s no way one person or two people or three people can even take in that many dogs. So just be aware this is a huge problem. And they like I said they dumped the dogs in the desert thinking that you know, oh, they’ll survive their dogs. Coyotes eat dogs, guys, if the dog is smaller than a coyote and even if they’re the same size the gang the pack will gang up on it, wear it out first run it until it’s tire gang up on it and eat it so they don’t understand the way of the world. It is not a Disney film. It is it is ugly. Nature can be very ugly, and coyotes are predators so, much like Narcissists. So anyway, there is that I just wanted to make you guys a public service announcement. If you see a stray, see if you can get them take them in for a scan, get them to a no kill shelter or rescue.

So that’s the best that you can do. Don’t get pets if you’re not planning on taking care of it. Don’t have pets if you’re not planning on being with that pet at the very last moment or oh my god, I’m going to start crying. So, when Scotty died when we had to put Scotty down, we fed him his favorite meal, which was French fries and a cheeseburger from Giant hamburgers. That’s his favorite. And we petted him, and we loved him. And we talked to him all the way through. So, he knew we were with us because when you put pets down, they look for you. Because they’re scared. So, you want to comfort them. So, people who are willing to dump a senior dog because, oh, I can’t deal with the emotional Okay, well, obviously you can’t deal with emotions, period. Because this is part of being human is dealing with death and being there for those that are dying, whether it’s a dog or a human. So anyway, that is my rant for the day. So, if you see a stray, you know what to do, go do it. Go do the right thing. So there that is okay.

Sorry, this is I love dogs. I love cats. I love all animals. I just love them. And it kills me when I see them being mistreated. And again, turning loose. That’s neglect. That’s what narcissists do is neglect. It’s like, okay, I can’t deal with this. I’m going to make it somebody else’s problem. So yeah, there it is. Okay, get myself back together, get myself back together.

Okay. So today, we’re going to talk about attachment. So, attachment is huge. So basically, it’s how our parents, and part of its genetic there’s obviously a genetic component to it too. So, nature nurture. So, what causes one kid to be able to attach better than another genetic component, obviously the eternal question nature, nurture, nature, nurture. So, there is a genetic component to it. Some kids are a little bit more resilient, and others are a little bit more sensitive, and that’s okay.

Kris Godinez  10:02

So, if you’ve got a parent who is abusive neglectful not present, verbally abusive, sexually abusive, mentally abusive, emotionally abusive, totally checked out. It creates an insecure attachment. So, let’s talk about the different attachments so you understand what the heck we’re talking about here. Okay, let me get to attachments.

Okay Attachments are the emotional bonds that are formed between the infant and the caregiver. And it is the means by which the helpless infant gets primary needs met. So, in a healthy attachment, that caregiver is there, you know, like no question like the baby cries, the caregiver comes and changes the diapers or feeds them or comforts them or whatever the child… plays with them, whenever the child is needing at that moment, and that child knows by repeated, you know, crying events that that parent is going to be there to comfort them because that’s crying is the only way they can communicate when they’re that little so and what a lot of abusers do is they do the whole let them cry it out thing Oh, hell no, You never do that with a child because that shows the child that the world is not safe, and nobody is coming to help them. Which is not good because infants are helpless. Like, literally they can’t do it for themselves. They don’t have the cognitive ability; they don’t have the physical ability. So crying is their way of communicating that is a form of communication, and I see abusers use that against the kid and punish them for crying. Can I tell you how much I hate abusers? I really frickin hate them, like, to the core because they go after the most vulnerable, and that’s children. They go after the child. They go after the baby, you know, they get along with kids somewhat, unless they’re really truly psychopathic until they’re about No, no two, three, when the kids start saying no and oh my god, then they hate that kid, or five or six. That’s another stage that kids go through when they’re playing and discovering who they are and drawing boundaries and things like that. So, an abuser will punish the child for normal communication. So crying is a normal form of communication for an infant. So, a healthy attachment is that child cries their needs get met though Mom, Dad caregiver, whoever that is, comes in, meets their needs, changes their diapers, feeds them, plays with them, you know, cuddles them, etc, etc etc. If you’ve got inconsistent like totally mom, dad, you know, were checked out drug addict, abusive whatever, sometimes they would need the need. Sometimes they wouldn’t, sometimes they punish you. Sometimes they wouldn’t. Depending on where they were mentally kind of thing. So that creates an insecure attachment style.

Um, okay, so attachment provides the infant’s first coping system. It is a mental representation of the caregiver in the infant’s mind. One that can be summed up as a comforting mental presence in difficult moments. Attachment allows an infant to separate from the caregiver without distress and to begin exploring the world around him or her. So, this is why you see some kids have a real issue with separation. You know, they don’t feel secure. They feel they’re kind of like, are they coming back? Or are they not? Now, this can happen when and I hate this. In our society, both parents are having to work you get FMLA, but they give you, like, what six weeks off after having a brand-new baby will six weeks is not enough time for that little one to understand. Yeah, you’re going to keep coming back. Yeah, you’re going to keep coming back. Do you see where I’m going with that it just so much in our society needs to change. Oh my god, starting with how much time off parents get to bond with that baby. That is hugely important that time period is really important for that child to understand that that person that caregiver is coming back.

So okay, hold on, hold on. Um, okay, attachments early in life. So, children with a secure attachment may be distressed upon separation, but warmly welcome the caregiver back through eye contact and hug seeking. Okay. So, it’s a secure attachment. They might be distressed when they leave, but they kind of know, okay, they’re coming back. Oh, good. They’re back. Okay, we’re good, you know, and they look at them and they laugh, and they want to hug them and all that sort of good stuff.

Anxious resistant attachment describes a child who is frightened, terrified by separation and continues to display anxious behavior once the caregiver returns because they don’t trust that the caregiver is going to stay or that the caregiver is going to consistent consistently return. There’s no consistency there, and so they don’t trust, and that makes a ton of sense. So, Let’s take this a step further. So, we come into adulthood, and we may have had abusive relationships romantically or with, you know, having a boss that was an abuser or friends that were toxic or whatever. And we start getting healthy, and we go, Oh my God, I don’t trust. This is why this is why. So, this is why I keep saying, the inner child workbook, and I don’t care which author you use, whoever speaks to you the best, I guess, is a good way to put it. So, either the Katherine Taylor one, which is a little bit outdated, because she has you do some like, you know, collages and things like that, and who owns magazines nowadays, seriously, but you know, or I wish they’d updated that would be really cool. Um, or the Cappacchione one where they have you write the child with your nondominant hand and write the adult with the dominant hand. So, it comes at it from two different ways. I like the Catherine Taylor one, because it’s more experiential. It’s more like, imagine holding yourself as a baby, imagine what your garden looks like, as a child, what does that garden look like? Is it barren? Is it a desert? Is it a jungle? What does it look like? So, it’s very. It’s coming at it from two different directions. So, both of them could be good. I do like the Katherine Taylor one a little bit better. But that’s also because I like the experiential stuff. I like Holding, holding yourself as an infant, I like grabbing the applesauce and snaring it in your hair and seeing what comes up, you know? So um, yeah, so anyway, inner child workbook work on the inner child attachment. What was your relationship like, with your parents? Were they there? Were they consistent? Are they loving? Were they kind? Or were they addicts? Were they absent? Were they abusive? Were they just not present? They might have been there physically but were they not there mentally, it really does affect us. And it creates that lack of trust. It does. It’s like It’s deep.

So that lack of trust is deep. So, when I tell people when they’re like, Well, how do I learn to trust again, work on the inner child, please, please, please, please work on the inner child, work on the inner child work on the self-esteem workbook in conjunction with the inner child workbook, because you’re dealing with a bunch of subconscious thoughts that you’re not even aware of, that are running in the background telling you how safe or not the world is. And we tend to make mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, etc., become somehow factual as opposed to wait a minute here I’m having this thought and I need to challenge it. Where did I get this thought from? And a lot of times, people are like, I don’t know where I got this thought from. I don’t even know. I mean, it’s so kind of foggy. Well, it could be foggy, because it’s been there since you were itty bitty. So, it’s a really good idea. Get with a good trauma therapist, seriously, hand to heart, swear to whatever deity you believe in that’s on the side of good. Get a good trauma therapist, because you’re going to need it; you’re going to need it this trauma, this trauma response. We’re going to talk more about that. So, all of this stuff, all of the trauma responses go back to attachment. They go back to self-esteem, they go back to the inner child. You know, I keep saying that. Everybody’s like, no, that’s too easy. That’s no. It’s got to be more difficult than that. Oh, honey, it’s difficult when you start going through it, trust me because you start feeling all this stuff. I mean, difficult.

Kris Godinez  18:35

I mean, it’s a challenge. It is because you start feeling all of these emotions, and you start having memories. And then you know, it’s kind of like, Oh, my God, but it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing. Don’t freak out. When you start remembering things. That’s what we want. Because then once you drag this stuff into the light, now you can see it. Now you can address it, and you can basically go, ah, I hear you knocking. You can’t come in, I see you, I hear you. You’re full of doodoo. Go pound sand. Buh bye, buh bye now by write when you get work, but do you see where I’m going without? So yeah, it’s really, it’s really, really important to get a good trauma therapist to help you with this. You need somebody who has been there, done that, gets it is able to comfort you through this because this is this is terrifying to a child, inner child, inner child. So, you know, when you’re dealing with all of this attachment stuff, if you need somebody who can be like that, kind of like a substitute parent, a substitute adult. So, you know, a therapist who’s going to be comforting, and there and good boundaries and you know, that kind of thing. So, get with a good trauma therapist. EMDR would be a great way to go. CBT would be a great way to go. You need to confront those mistaken thoughts and those mistaken beliefs about who you are and what is your safety in this world. Okay, hold on more to this. No, that’s not the one I want. Hang on.

Oh, avoidant attachment. So we went through the secure attachment, the anxious resistant attachment. avoidant attachment denotes a child who reacts fairly calmly to a parent separation but does not embrace them upon their return. So, it’s almost as if the kid is kind of like, leave stay. I don’t care, you know. And so, the parent comes back, and instead of being excited, which most kids would be, they’re kind of like, yeah, no, you’re going to leave again. So why do I care? Trauma response, trauma response. So that says to me that that kid has not had consistency in what’s going on in their life. You know, sometimes the parents or sometimes they’re not, they decided what the heck, I’m just going to do it my own damn self, if I could reach the counter,  I’d get my own bottle, you know, I mean, seriously. And I got to tell you guys, and there is such a correlation between the attachment style. And later on, in life, addictions. And in one of my clients said something brilliant earlier this week. They were like, you know, everybody wants to talk about tipping the bottle, but they don’t ever talk about what makes the bottle tip. And I went, Oh, my God, write that down. That’s brilliant. Put it in one of your poems. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh my god. So, it’s true. It’s like the attachment style is what makes the bottle tip. That’s what causes us to go use because we’re trying to numb the pain and the fear, lots of fear. Oh my god. So, there is very much a connection.

Okay. Alright, so getting back to this. Do Okay. Okay. So avoidant attachment is kind of like that leaves day, I don’t care, and they don’t get excited. You know, eventually, that turns into not asking for help, which is a trauma response. Not really allowing yourself to be vulnerable, also a trauma response. So, there’s that. Isn’t that interesting? There’s so interesting. All right.

Disorganized attachment is an is manifest an odd or ambivalent behavior toward a caregiver upon return, approaching but then turning away from them or even hitting the caregiver, and maybe the result of childhood trauma because the kids are scared and angry and they don’t know how to react. So that makes total sense.

Then on a completely different level, we’ve got reactive attachment disorder. reactive attachment disorder is a rare but serious condition in which an infant or young child does not establish healthy attachments with the parents or the caregivers. Now, this is usually in cases like, say, for example, people were adopting children from China and Romania. And if the children were not cuddled and held and loved and taken care of, they got this reactive attachment disorder. So, it may result it may reactive attachment disorder may develop because the child’s basic needs for comfort, affection, and nurturing are not met, and loving, caring, stable attachments with others are not established. So yeah, so orphanages that you know in other countries that did not take care of the kids it just ignored them, strap them down, didn’t feed them, didn’t cuddle with them, etc. Symptoms of reactive attachment disorder usually start in infancy. There’s little research on signs and symptoms of reactive attachment disorder beyond early childhood and remains uncertain whether it occurs in children older than five. Unexplained withdrawal, fear, sadness or irritability, sad or listless appearance, not seeking comfort, or showing no response when comfort is given. Failure to smile, watching others closely but not engaging in social interactions, failure to reach out when picked up, that’s because kids just, you know, pick me up, you know, that kind of thing. Um, no interest in playing peekaboo or other interactive games, behavior problems failing to seek support. So, you want to make sure if there is a child doing that, that they get into a pediatric psychiatrist. Absolutely, because this needs to be addressed immediately because this leads to other things risk factors. The child lived in an institution frequently changes foster homes or caregivers, parents who have severe mental health problems, criminal behavior or substance abuse, it’s impairing parenting have prolonged separation from parents or other caregivers due to repeated out-of-home placement, hospitalization or death of a primary caregiver. If without proper treatment, reactive attachment disorder can continue for several years and may have will have lifelong consequences. This can include problems with relationships, social interactions, mental and physical health, behavior, intellectual development, and substance abuse. More research is needed to determine if problems and older children and adults are related to experiences of reactive attachment disorder in early childhood. Can I just say yes to that already? So yeah. So basically, its intervention would be trauma, trauma therapists, trauma therapist working on the abuse, working on the trauma, working on self-esteem working on re healthy attachments. Okay, hold on, I wanted to get to, ah, okay.

Attachment styles in adulthood. Attachment security and behaviors have been studied in adult relationships. And this is on psychology today. And really, attachment related patterns that differ between individuals are called attachment styles. Okay, many adults feel secure in the relationship and comfortable depending on others echoing secure attachment and children. So, one way to heal. Attachment is to surround yourself with Healthy People basically, is what they’re saying. So, you can get healthier and more secure in your attachment if you surround yourself with healthy people. So again, this all, it all connects, it all connects. So, you remember how I was talking about when we start getting healthy, we start moving toxic people out of our life, and it starts feeling lonely and we start going, Oh, my God, I’m alone. I’m alone. Well, take a deep breath. You were alone, when you were with all of these toxic people, you’re making room for the Healthy People. So, you really aren’t alone. You’ve got somebody to turn to. You’ve got somebody healthy; you can say I’m having a tough day; can we talk you know, that’s what you need. You need friends you need, we are pack animals no different than dogs. We need our path we need our friends. We need relationships that are healthy, we need people we can turn to and people we can learn to trust with. So, this is really important to start working with a trauma therapist to get this handled. Okay.

Ah, okay. Okay. Others tend to feel anxious about their connections with close others or prefer avoiding getting close to them in the first place. So, these are persons with borderline personality disorder, characterized by a longing for intimacy and hypersensitivity to rejection, have shown a high prevalence and severity of insecure attachment. So borderline personality disorder is born of trauma. So, if there are issues with borderline personality disorder, really inappropriate behavior, inappropriate reactions. Overly fearful of abandonment, things like that, get with a trauma therapist. DBT is wonderful for that get with a DBT therapist that understands borderline personality disorder, understands trauma, and can help the person worked through that. So, getting back to it.

Kris Godinez  28:08

Okay. People with an insecure attachment, they worry about being alone. I often worry that my romantic partner doesn’t really love me. Some high in attachment avoidance likely worries about other people getting too close. So, can you change your attachment style? Yes, attachment styles can absolutely be changed substantially over time research suggests that name and may differ from relationship to relationship enduring terrible relationships may lead to less secure attachment orientation. And a history of supportive relationships may lead to increased security. So that’s what I’m saying therapy in providing a safe connection and opportunity to learn create relational skills is also helpful. So, in other words, surrounding yourself with healthy people, getting a good trauma therapist addressing what you went through as a kid.

Okay, hold on. I’m going to go through this last article. This is choosing therapy.com. This is called attachment trauma signs, causes, and how to heal. So, we’ve already gone through the avoidant, anxious, disorganized, insecure. We’ve talked about that. We’ve talked about what attachment trauma is, and we’ve talked about how it happens. Signs of attachment trauma in adults strong need for independence and autonomy, and control in relationships, difficulty feeling closeness with others, and avoiding relationships that require intimacy because we’re afraid or, conversely, strong need for closeness, so like clingy with others to the point that they may drive other people away. Being on alert for signs that the other person is unhappy in a relationship. Questioning one’s self-worth all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time. Viewing everyone else romantic partner in black or white in black or white terms such as all good or bad, all good, all bad. All nothing Black and White. That’s called splitting. Okay, let’s get to okay consequences difficulty in interpersonal relationships, unstable or negative sense of self. That makes sense. Okay, coping with attachment trauma, you’ve got to understand the impact of your past. You can’t just go up. It’s in the past. We’re done. I’m not going to deal with it. You’ve got to acknowledge the impact of your past. And you’ve got to start working on healing from childhood trauma inner child workbook Catherine Taylor inner child workbook with Cappacchione. It can be painful to think about your early childhood experiences but empathizing with how you felt as an infant, or a child is hugely important. You can shift your focus to the present by reflecting on how your early childhood has impacted you and how you behave in your adult relationships. Understanding your patterns is one of the first steps toward change and healing. Develop connections that encourage strength and resilience.

Once you’re aware of the patterns in your relationship and how your past has shaped them, you can choose to approach building connections in a different way. seek out relationships that are mutually beneficial, so not people pleasing, not somebody you have to chase, but a mutually benefiting friendship. If you feel like you are to being taken advantage of, put down, or abused, you can choose to end that relationship and set healthy boundaries. If you are struggling in this area. Get with a good trauma therapist. You can also consider support groups, group therapy, or recreational activities where you can meet like-minded people. Yes, that is how you meet healthier people is by doing things you love. Get comfortable with honest communication. Communication is an important life skill that most of us are not taught, especially if we’re in a disordered family. We tend to follow the example set by our family and peers. Assertive communication involves expressing your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs in a clear manner. It is firm but respectful. It differs from passive communication, where you give in to others, and aggressive communication, where you aggressively demand from others. Again, if you’re struggling with communication, get with a trauma therapist. Again, that’s going to be the big answer. And most of these connect with your body. The body keeps score by Bessel Vander Kolk excellent book, highly recommend it, get it, read it, work it, love it, love it, there we go.

Attachment trauma can impact how you feel about yourself in your body. Making an effort to connect with yourself and your body can help you heal. So, a lot of us that were abused and had families of origin that were just, you know, totally dysfunctional and not helpful. Very disconnected from our body. And even though I’ve been working on myself for a really, really, really long time, when I do something new like Pilates right? And I start doing like the higher classes. Boy, Howdy, I realize how still disconnected from my body I am, not horribly, but enough to be like, Huh, that’s weird. I thought I worked on that. Well, time to work on it again, deeper. So yeah, we get disconnected from our body from ourselves literally in more ways than one. So, reconnecting with the self the self-esteem workbook, Glenn Schiraldi the self-esteem, not other esteem, not your job, not what you can do for people, not how productive you are your self-esteem workbook, Glenn Schiraldi and he also addresses mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, and how to challenge them, which is why I’m saying that’s going to help with attachment. So, there is that so getting back in touch with your body.

Okay, where was I?  There are many approaches to this. You can do a body scan, meditation, mindfulness, progressive muscle relaxation, yoga, pilates, breath work, taking note of how your body feels when you move, and establishing your own limits and boundaries for your body can help you feel more connected and more in control. Research on yoga for trauma is still emerging, but it shows promising results. If possible. It may be best to find a yoga teacher that specifically works with trauma healing, and yes, they are out there. Okay. I will get to the questions in just a second. Consider trauma-focused therapy. Therapy can help you explore your attachment trauma and understand its impact on you today. Developing a therapeutic relationship with a provider you trust also gives you the opportunity to experience a secure attachment. This experience can be transformative, transformative, and can help you cultivate other safe connections in your life. Trauma-focused therapy can also teach you healthy ways to communicate, set boundaries and cope with negative feelings. There are several different forms of therapy that treat trauma. EMDR has one I reprocess cognitive behavioral therapy, which is what I do. You can find a therapist by asking for a referral from a friend. That is honestly, the best way to find a therapist is somebody who really loves their therapist and recommends them that is word of mouth is the best way. You can also search online directories betterhelp.com/KrisGodinez, that’s another good resource.

Signs that you are healing from attachment trauma. Healing from attachment trauma is complex. It involves working through your past traumas understanding how they have impacted you, and developing new beliefs and new behaviors in relationships. It can be hard to know if you’re healing, kind of like seeing the forest through the trees. Depending on the person, the process can take months or even years, but it’s not impossible. It can be done. Signs that you are healing from attachment trauma include you have close and meaningful relationships and friendships. You’re able to communicate your feelings to others. You’re able to set healthy boundaries in your relationships. You have a healthy view of others and understand that people are imperfect. You accept your past and don’t beat yourself up for it. You have self-confidence and self-esteem workbook Lynch roll the inner child workbook Lucia Cappacchione or Catherine Taylor. If you’re working on healing from attachment trauma, you may not be seeing results immediately. But don’t panic. It takes time to heal. It takes practice as well. So, you may consider trying something that you haven’t tried before, like seeing a therapist. Either way, don’t give up. Healing from attachment is possible.

Final Thoughts attachment trauma is painful, but healing is possible. It can and probable if you do the work. It can be difficult to do on your own. But therapy, self-care learning new ways to communicate, and connecting with yourself and others can be extremely helpful. If you’re struggling, even with the workbooks, get with a therapist get with a therapist that specializes in attachment issues, trauma, etc. And they can help you work through the workbooks. So, what I do with my clients is, I tell them, Okay, you know, you’re having a hard time getting through the inner child workbook, let’s work it together, or you’re having a hard time getting through the self-esteem workbook. Let’s work it together. Let’s bring it in. Let’s read it through. Let’s do the exercises together.

Kris Godinez  37:19

Let’s see what’s going on. A lot of times, the reason people resist that is because they’re afraid. Because what happens if I change? What happens if I let go of this identity that I’ve had for so long? What happens if I let go of all the toxic people what happens? If so, they’re living in a future that hasn’t quite happened yet. And they’ve already decided it’s going to be bad as opposed to freedom. You know what I’m saying. So, it’s really important to understand your inner child is going to be resistant to change a lot of times and to comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, comfort, and I don’t mean with chocolate.

So, when you’re dealing with the inner child, and the inner child is afraid, you can imagine speaking to the inner child, holding the inner child, comforting the inner child, standing next to the inner child or behind the inner child and letting them know you’ve got their back, it’s going to be okay, it’s going to be different, but it’s going to be okay. And that they’re safe, and they’re okay, and you’re not going to let anything that happened to them. Unlike what happened to you when you were little. So, it’s really important to comfort your inner child, love yourself, do self-care, get with a good trauma therapist, work the books I recommend. There’s a reason I recommend these books. So, if talking to your inner child is too scary or painful or weird, because some people are like, Oh, that’s weird. I don’t want to do it. Great. Write them a love letter. Dear little three-year-old me. I love you. Oh my god. Wow. You know, and here’s what’s great about you. And here’s how you got us through to adulthood. And here’s how much I love you and I’m going to protect you and I know this happened to you when you were a kid. You know what? Just a memory. Those a holes cannot hurt you anymore. I won’t let it happen. See where I’m going with that. So, keep in communication with the inner child is super, super important.

Okay, to recap, attachment issues are real it comes from neglect or abuse it does. How our caregivers treated us, either consistently or inconsistently, really affects how we view the world. Are we secure? Are we insecure? Are we avoidant? Are we, you know, terrified all the time? Do we not trust? Are we kind of like, I’ll do it my own damn self, all of that goes back to attachment. All of it. It is a trauma response. CPTSD from surviving to thriving P Walker. Excellent. Get it? Read it, work it. Your body keeps score. The body keeps score Bessel Vander Kolk get it, read it, work it. Get a trauma therapist. All of these things are going to help you, and yes 100%, You can heal this stuff. You absolutely can’t now but does this mean it’s going to poof go away, and you’re never going to have to deal with it again? No Um, like I said, I was in Pilates the other day. And I was doing what was I doing? I was doing something. Oh, I had to do balance. So, we were doing like one-legged, pelvic tilts. And I was just like, oh, oh dear, I am really disconnected. Wow. Because I cannot find my balance down there. Hmm. Interesting. So just something I need to work on, something I need to write about something. I need to journal something I need to process. It’s just uh huh. It’s not. Oh, you can’t do this. It’s more of Uh huh. I can’t do this. Well, what’s that? Where did? Where did that come from? You know, and you work through it. That’s it. You get curious, get curious. Don’t get judgmental. Get curious. So there that is. You can heal from attachment issues go you. So mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. I give you permission to work on your childhood and then walk out. Work all the books, you’ve got this. You’ve got this. You can do it. All right, let’s get to the questions since I went long. today. All right.

Should we be with our narc parents when they are dying? I’ve been no contact for eight years. No, you were under no obligation to be with the parents if they were abusive. So let me clarify my earlier, earlier comments. narcissists tend to abandon dogs; narcissists tend to abandon parents that actually loved them. If, however, the parent was abusive, and you’ve been no contact, don’t break the No Contact. They’re not; it’s not going to be this miraculous. They’re not going to be nice to your kind of thing. So basically, you’re not a bad person for staying no contact. You’re not a bad person for not seeing them. What I’m talking about is if you’ve been with his dog for 12 years, and you just suddenly are like, no, I can’t handle it being dead and being gone. Or you’ve got a family member that’s actually been kind and good to you and shoved them into an old age home and don’t ever talk to them again. That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. I am not talking about an abuser that you’ve been no contact with for 18 years that’s dying. You’re under no obligation to ever speak to them again. And it’s different because they’re abusive. Does that make sense? So, I hope that clarifies that.

If you’re afraid of everything, which is called agoraphobia, fear can be mistaken as excitement. I fear nothing at the same time. Yeah, yeah, it can. Because we haven’t. Nobody ever taught us how to feel emotions. And nobody ever taught us how to separate them all out. So that makes total sense. I fear nothing. At the same time, I face things head on, it’s better to go through it than around it. Am I wrong? Well, here’s the thing. Facing things is actually kind of a good thing. I kind of feel the same way. And maybe that’s a trauma response. I’m not sure. But I feel the same way. Like facing things. Like, let’s handle it. Let’s get her done. Kind of thing. Um, but you’ve got to make sure it’s a mindfulness thing. So, Is it fear that’s driving you? Or is it something that needs to be done? So, I would say journal it out, you know, Is it fear that’s being driven here? Or is it something that truly needs to be done? You know, I like to face things head-on. That’s just the kind of person I am. And, but, and you want to make sure if the motivation sounds like an actor, what’s their motivation? Um, you want to make sure what the motivation is; it’s like, are you doing it out of a healthy, facing things and getting through it? Or are you doing it out of fear?

And separating out excitement and fear is going to be hugely important because if you’re responding to fear as excitement, that can also get you into trouble. So, journal, journal, get with a therapist work it through. So, there is that.

What do you think about Homecoming, reclaiming and healing your inner child by John Bradshaw? Catherine Taylor’s book is so huge. I can’t do it. I have not read John Bradshaw’s book. So, I don’t know. I don’t know. I know some people get intimidated because the book looks really thick. And again, it’s for you. It is really for you. This is a gift to you. So, if the Katherine Taylor one is too intimidating, go for the Lucia Cappacchione one that’s a little bit thinner. But remember, every book is for you to love you. And for you to heal you. It is a gift to you. So read the read the homecoming one if that works. If you like it, then that’s great. I have not read it. So, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s good or not. So, but do what works. But don’t be off put just because a book is thick because a lot of the stuff is exercises. A lot of the things she hasn’t her workbooks are things you have to actually do. So, um, yeah. So, try it. Try the book. Let me know how it is, you know, if you like it, if you read the book and you like it, let me know if you read the book and you hate it. Also, let me know, let me know why. So, I can kind of help guide people when they’re like, oh, what other books do you have? So, yeah, that’s, that’s that. And basically, it’s like, whatever workbook works for you. I don’t care as long as it is moving you forward and moving you away from abuse. That’s all I care about. I just want you guys to be healthy. That’s really my whole goal.

Okay. Do narcissistic parents cause a detachment of the child? And parent? Oh, oh, yes. Oh, my Lord. So, this kind of goes back to the pet thing too. So, a narcissistic partner, male or female, doesn’t matter will be jealous of the child. I know there’ll be jealous of the dog. They’ll be jealous of the cat. There’ll be jealous of the hamster, the turtle, the tortoise, whatever is getting attention that they’re not getting, so they’ll be jealous of the child. Absolutely. And they will encourage because my dad did this. Oh, my God. So okay. So, my dad was jealous of my middle sister. And when my middle sister would cry, he insisted that my mom let her cry it out. My sister cried so hard; she ended up getting a hernia as a baby. Okay, I’m not okay with that theory of parenting. I think it’s abuse. It is abuse. And he was angry every time my mom had to pay attention to one of us, and this continued on through all of our lives. He was jealous of me. He was jealous of my other sisters. I don’t know why. Let’s put it this way this man, and I use the term man loosely, will never win Father of the Year award.

Kris Godinez  47:01

So, they are jealous of the child there. They are envious. They want the attention, and they will encourage the other parent to not bond with the child. 110%. You betcha.

Okay. My narc mother was someone I never had a bomb bond with. Well, if she was a narcissist, they wouldn’t know how to bond anyway, because narcissists do not know emotions. They don’t know how to deal with it. They don’t know how to relate to that little, tiny infant, you know, who needs to be held and loved and kissed and cuddled and comforted and fed and everything else. Um, when she died, I had no feelings of grief or anything. So, when my dad died, he was the narcissist in my life. When my dad died. I was not sad because he was dead. In fact, when he died, Mom and I sat on the couch and went thank God, that son of a bitch is dead. Seriously, because with a narcissist, they’re abusive or neglectful. There’s no connection. I couldn’t relate to this guy to literally to save my life. I had to leave home when I was 17 because he was so abusive. You know, it just was not a good thing. When he died. I felt nothing. Stop it. Siri, I felt nothing. I was not sad for him. I was not sad that he was gone. When I was sad about, and I talked about it in my book. What’s wrong with your dad? What I was sad about available on Amazon. What I was sad about was the if only he hadn’t been crazy. If only he wasn’t a narcissist, or borderline because he had both I think, you know, if only he wasn’t cruel. If only he wasn’t mean, if only he wasn’t, you know, completely detached from reality, if only he was willing to go get therapy and work on himself. If only if only if only if only. That’s what I was sad about. I was sad about, and I was sad for my siblings. Oh, boy. This is the day, isn’t it? So, we were sitting at a table, and I told the story before. And all of our siblings were telling me about my dad because we all had the same day, we had different moms. And my brother was saying; Now I’ll never get his approval. And he was right because my brother tried so hard to get my dad’s approval his entire life. And, of course, my dad never approved of him. My brother was a MacGyver, so he could fix literally spit and string. He could fix anything. And I thought it was brilliant. My dad, because it wasn’t academic, put him down, told him how stupid he was. He told all of us how stupid we were. And of course, that’s projection. Hello. But of course, we didn’t know that as kids. So, my poor brother was sitting there going well, now I’ll never get his approval. And, of course, my brother never got the help he needed either. And it just the wake of destruction is what hit me when my dad died. It was like, you absolute bastard. How dare you damage all of these kids who did not deserve it? You know, and if you had been willing to admit you were wrong number one and get help. Number two, things would have been so much different and so much better. But narcissists can’t. And so, when my Narcissus died, I felt nothing. I did and and there’s nothing wrong with that. Let’s be clear because there’s nothing there. There’s, there’s no they’re there with them. And there’s no bond, and there’s no emotional connection or attachment. Now, when my mom died, I was a freaking mess. I miss her. I do a lot. And I mean, she had her issues. And we’ve talked about this, but you know, when she died, there was an emotional connection. And I really, I really grieved her hard. My dad? Peace out, dude, go pound sand. Hope I don’t ever see you in the afterlife, you know? Is there no connection at all? And my mom and I felt a lot of relief. She felt guilty too. She was like, oh my god, I shouldn’t feel this way. And I was like, stop. He was mean. He was mean to you. He was mean to your children. Yeah, it’s okay for you to not grieve Him and to be glad he’s dead. Because frankly, I am. You know, and so it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s normal. When we lose, lose. When a narcissist departs the room, we’re actually okay. We’re not really sad. But we’re sad for the what ifs are the only if all these you know what if this had happened or if that had happened, of course, that’s a little inner child, I can guarantee you that 10 may be thinking about that, if only if only if only. So yeah, so just be gentle with you, sweetie. That’s normal. We’re not going to grieve an abuser, really. Some people will. Some people will. But it’s more grieving the if onlys than it is really grieving the loss of the person who used to cause you so much harm. So there that is. So, you’re okay. It’s okay. And yes, they do interfere with attachment, you know, they keep the other parent from caring for the child and taking care of them, etc.

Okay, what if those thoughts about the perceived ill intent of another person are indeed true? And your intuition is telling you that, but somebody else is telling you it’s all in your head? Okay. Well, if the evidence is telling you it’s true, then it’s true. You know, and here’s what I’ve noticed with abusers and disordered people is that they love to sew doubt in the target of abuse’s mind. So, for example, I’m dealing with divorce cases, okay. The abuser will say or do something that sews confusion or doubt in the healthy parent’s mind, and it’s intentional. So oh, you’re crazy. Oh, this isn’t what’s really, this isn’t what’s really happening. You’re imagining it’s gaslighting. So, you know, if it’s really happening, you document everything you check in with people that are sane, Hey, this is what I’m seeing. Are you seeing this too? Or am I smoking the ganja? That’s what you do. This is why having healthy friends is really important because they’re kind of like, hey, I need a reality check here. Is this really happening? So, for example, I’ve had clients that will call me and be like, can we talk for 15 minutes? I just need 15 minutes. Yeah, of course. So, they’ll call in my ex said this or did this and I feel crazy. Am I crazy? And then we’ll go through what happened. And I’ll be like, Okay, back it up. Do you remember when they did this? Yes, I remember that. Okay. Trust your gut. You know what I’m saying? So that’s why it’s good to have somebody to do a reality check with. But if it is true, you know, other people are seeing it, and you’ve got the documentation for yourself that yes, this is happening. And somebody else is trying to say, oh, it’s all in your head. You want to take a look at that flying monkey? Or you want to take a look at that abuser and see what is their agenda? What is their agenda to make you trust, not trust yourself? What is their agenda to tell you? It’s all in your head? Because that’s kind of an insult? Do you see where I’m going with that? So, check it out. What is their, what is their endgame? What is your plan? What is their agenda? What’s their goal? Why are they doing that? What do they get out of it? That’s always the question to ask, and trust your gut.

Okay, um, well, would DBT therapy be the same therapist that can help you through complicated grief first, so DBT is a modality. So, it doesn’t matter what the issue is. The modality is DBT Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. So they can help with depression, anxiety, grief, etc, etc, etc. So yeah, you could absolutely do that. Working through the grief first, I love my therapist, but I need someone who will help hold me accountable. Okay. Well, if the therapist is not holding you accountable, you may need a completely different therapist. So basically, a good therapist holds you accountable. A good therapist is like, are you doing the work? Why aren’t you doing the work? What’s going on? What’s stopping you? What is the fear? What is the this? What is that? And then working on the grief, you know, complicated grief is complicated. Because we may have loved our abuser, like, you know, on some level, like a little kid level, I loved my dad because, you know, he was my dad. But as an adult, I did not love my dad. So that’s complicated because it’s kind of like, okay, the inner child love my dad, but the adult me did not love my dad. And I didn’t miss him when he died. But I can guarantee my inner child was the one that got triggered when my brother said, Now I’ll never get his approval. Does that make sense? So, you need a therapist who’s going to work with you through all of those complicated, sometimes opposing emotions, and who’s going to hold you accountable? And have you do the work and call you on it when you don’t? And gently kind of be like, what’s going on? How can you not you know, what’s, what’s stopping you? What’s stopping you from working on this? What’s the fear? What are you telling yourself? What’s the mistaken thought? What is the mistaken belief and help you push through it? So yeah, you want a therapist that will keep you moving forward? You don’t want one? This is what drives me crazy and Bessel van der Kolk talked about this when we, he comes to Phoenix every once in a while, and he does continuing education units. And he was talking about therapists who just uh huh, uh huh. Uh huh. How do you feel about that? And keep the person coming for years as opposed to holding them accountable, pushing them forward, giving them coping skills so that they can do it on their own? Because that’s the ultimate goal, you know. So yeah, if your therapist is not helping you move forward and if they’re just uh huh, uh huh.

Kris Godinez  56:57

Get a different therapist. That would be my suggestion. So okay, is that it? That is it. All right, my love’s go have a great week. Please take good care of yourselves. Talk to you guys later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 12-11-2022 Healing Attachment appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, hi, everybody.

All right. So, current events. Irene Gawka, is still missing in Gillette, Wyoming. If anybody has any information on that, please contact the Gillette Wyoming police, they are looking at a person of interest. They are now looking for a 55 gallon barrel that they think that the person of interest might have used to dispose of her body so they are looking for that barrel. If you know anything, please contact the Gillette Wyoming police department. So there that is.

Okay, let’s dive into today’s question or today’s topic. So, a lot of people have been writing in and going, I’m procrastinating like crazy. I’m not doing what I should be doing. What the heck is going on? Why am I doing that? Well, okay, let’s talk about procrastination. Is it self-sabotage? Yeah. Is it a trauma response? Absolutely. Is it based in fear? You betcha.

So, let’s talk about these different, different things that are going on. So how to break this down. So, let’s talk about family of origin and abusers and things like that. So, when we are with somebody who is an abuser, they force us to be perfect. So, we get this perfectionism thing going on, we get this, I have to be perfect. I have to do this perfectly. It has to be perfect, because otherwise the abuser is gonna march in and be like, “Oh, you made a mistake, grrrrrrrr!” and they’re gonna, like, rub your nose in it. So what that does to a little kid, or even an adult is that we quickly learned, oh, I can’t make mistakes. I can’t, no, it has to be perfect. I have to do this perfectly. And so when we get that perfectionism going, we then get analysis, paralysis, that’s part of procrastination is not all of it, but it’s part of it, where we just go, Oh, I can’t do it perfectly, therefore, I’m not going to do it at all. Because the fear of doing it not perfectly, is greater than not doing it at all. And it’s kind of that avoidance thing, you know, how we talked about avoidance, because, you know, we’re avoiding because we don’t want to be punished. And we don’t want to be harmed, and we don’t want to be hurt. And we don’t want the abuser to make us wrong or hurt us for not doing it to their standards. Right?

So the abuser. I just… some of the stories I have been hearing lately, it just oh, it makes my head hurt. They’ll tell the kid to clean the bathroom, for example, or the kitchen or the garage or whatever. And if the child doesn’t do it, “right”, they then punish them physically using the cleaning products.

Kris Godinez  04:12

Don’t get me started I just that I really wish this country had stronger laws about child abuse. I really do. And I really wish that there wasn’t this stigma about reporting it, you know that, you know, the parents, whichever ones were not immediately accused of making things up. But then again, you have the whole parental alienation thing where sometimes the abuser makes stuff up, so it just makes my head hurt. It makes my head hurt.

So anyway, um, so we quickly learned it’s not okay, it’s not okay to not do it perfectly. It’s not okay to not do it up to the abuser’s weird standard. And here’s the crazy thing. And I think this is where a lot of us get messed up with this is that the abuser will be okay with it one time but come back, and we will have cleaned it the exact same way, and they’ll go not good enough. And then they’ll find some excuse to physically, emotionally punish. So, it’s part of where that’s a trauma response, not doing things is a trauma response because of what has happened in the past when we got punished. So, you know, it’s something to think about. And this is something to, I think, really get with a good trauma therapist, you want to work with a trauma therapist on this, this is a trauma response, especially if it’s based in perfectionism, and especially if it’s based in “Oh, my God, not good enough. Oh, my God, what if it’s not perfect? Oh, my God”, you know. So it’s also a form of self sabotage.

So, this is who is also interconnected, it’s not even funny. So, if we have a family of origin that is disordered, abusive, harmful, hurtful, toxic, etc. If the child out shown them, they would also get punished. It’s a no-win situation. So, it’s kind of like you do a great job, you get the recognition for it. And they come unglued, because you’ve stolen their thunder, in their crazy heads. Or you get this, what’s the word I’m looking for? You basically you lie to yourself, and you go, “Oh, I do better under pressure. Oh, I do better if I have, you know, this deadline, I just wait until the very last minute.” Well study after study after study shows that that’s not true. And what it does do is, excuse me, health conditions, it creates hypertension, heart disease, etc, etc, etc. So, um, yeah, so it’s, it’s this, it’s this damned if you do and damned if you don’t kind of thing. If you outshine them and you do it, you get it done in time. And you get praise from your, your teachers or, or your boss or whatever, then the partner or the family of origin has a fit and punishes you for being on time.

So, so we get all of these weird mistaken thoughts and these weird mistaken beliefs. And there’s a lot of magic thinking around it, especially if we developed the procrastination as children. So again, this goes back to inner child, what are your inner child’s beliefs? What are the mistaken thoughts? What are the mistaken beliefs? What is that inner child say to you, when you’ve got a deadline? And it’s going “Oh, no, no, we don’t need to do that right now. No, that’s too painful. We’ll just push it off. No, it’s too scary. We’ll just push it off.” So again, it’s inner child work. Inner Child workbook, either by Katherine Taylor or by Luccia Cappachione. What is that about? Where did you learn to push things off? Now, fear. Fear is a huge obstacle, huge obstacle, when we are dealing with PTSD, see PTSD, etc, etc, etc. It stops us literally in our tracks. How many times have you gone right up to the edge and then you pull back? How many times have you, you know, do this and you pull back how many times and then, then when you really look at it, you’re like, wow, why? Why am I doing that? What am I afraid of? And then when I start working with my clients, and we start digging into that fear, it’s always goes back to an inner child fear is a very, very itty bitty person fear. It’s a little kid fear and doesn’t invalidate it. But it just means that you have got to work on that trauma, you have got to work on that fear. Fear is what stops us. Absolutely. Fear is what stops us with everything. I mean, when you think about it, when people say, Oh, this is why I didn’t do this, well, why? Well I was afraid of and then fill in the blank. So, fear is what stops us from doing a lot of things. Not just trauma survivors, but regular old people too.

So, it’s really it’s managing the fear and it’s acknowledging the fear and it’s going back working through the inner child going through the inner child workbook, figuring out when did I start procrastinating? When did I become a perfectionist? When did this happen? How old was I? Why did I become a perfectionist? Why did this happen? So, it’s really important to go back through and dig through and figure out where this all came from CPTSD from surviving to thriving Pete Walker, inner child workbook Luccia Cappachione or Katherine Taylor. Either one, I don’t care, get it work it or whatever one works for you. I don’t care, get it, work it. This is the stuff that needs to be dealt with and the avoidance. So again, the avoidance What are you avoiding? So, you know, some people avoid things because of the big emotions.

Kris Godinez  10:03

So again, little ones are the ones that have a hard time with big emotions. If you are dealing with something that has got big emotions around it, that’s probably the inner child is the one that’s having a hard time coping with the big emotions because, think about it. When we were raised in the abusive household or the toxic household or the disordered household, however you want to put it, emotions were not allowed, and emotions were not okay. The only emotion you could express was one of the narcissist or the abuser was okay with. And that usually was like, nothing, they didn’t want to be bothered, you know, it was okay, if you were happy, not too happy. See where I’m going with that? Certainly not okay to have anger, certainly not okay to be afraid, certainly not okay to have sadness. Because whay would they do all give you something to be sad about, I’ll give you something to be angry about. I’ll give you something to be afraid of, you know, they don’t allow little kids to have the big emotions and experience them and know how to cope with them. So really, for us going through and surviving that and surviving a romantic relationship or friendship or work situation. Our task is to go back through and help comfort that inner child and let that little one, express all the big emotions and be okay with it and be safe with it.

So, procrastination is an avoidance of pain. Procrastination is an avoidance of feeling scared or feeling angry or feeling sad, or, you know, fear of not being perfect, fear. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like, Okay, guess what? So, all of the emotions are good emotions, even anger, even sadness, anger is there to show us where we’ve been hurt. That’s what anger is about. Anger is the bodyguard of the softer emotions. And a lot of people are like, “Oh, no, I don’t want to feel I don’t want to feel I don’t want to feel.” You’re human. You’re going to feel. The ones who don’t feel are the psychopaths, you don’t want to be that. So, you want to be able to feel, you want to be able to allow you want to make yourself safe and be allowed to have anger. Okay, what’s underneath the anger? Hurt. So where did you get hurt? You know, what happened? What’s, what’s the softer emotion that’s underneath the anger. And usually, it’s again, fear. It’s the fear of being hurt. It’s the fear of whatever is going on. And so people get angry, so people don’t hurt them. Which doesn’t work, by the way. So, you know, so it’s really important to identify what are you procrastinating about? That’s going to tell you a lot. Okay, what specific? What specific area are you procrastinating on? What are you constantly avoiding? Why? What’s the fear? What is the little kid inside telling you? What are they trying to avoid? What are they trying to get away from? What is making them uncomfortable? And that’s why it’s really, really important to comfort the inner child and have chats with them. Hey, little one, it’s okay to have big emotions about this. This is scary.

So, for example, writing the letters writing and burning the letters, sometimes I’ll have clients come in, and they will absolutely not want to write the letters. “No, no, no, no, no, I don’t want to do it. It’ll make it real.” Yeah, it does make it real. And that’s why you need to write the letters. And, again, it’s hard. Because once we allow ourselves to start processing those emotions and start feeling the feelings, there’s no going back. And I think there’s a part of the inner child that kind of knows that. And it’s that fear of letting go. It’s that fear of, “Whoa, now I really have to deal with this. Now I really have to process this, now I really have to…” fill in the blank. So, it’s, it’s really important to comfort the inner child as you’re going through all of these ways that you’ve been procrastinating. Who, how, where, what, why? That’s what you want to ask yourself, what is the… what is the subject of the procrastination? What are the lies that I tell myself about the procrastination because that’s important too. Because remember, it’s that magic thinking that little kids have. “Oh, I work better under pressure.” No, you really don’t. So, you know, what are the…what is the what’s going on? What is the subject I’m trying to avoid? Why am I trying to avoid it? Who made it unsafe for me to deal with this? How can I help myself move forward?

Kris Godinez  14:50

So, I wanted to read thing on psychology today. Let me see if I can find it. Hold on just a second. Okay, So Psychology Today, alright, procrastination. Everyone puts things off sometimes, but procrastination chronically avoids… a procrastinator chronically avoids difficult tasks. Now, this is on psychology today. And it’s just titled procrastination. Okay, “I don’t feel like it” comes to take precedence over their goals and over their responsibilities and can set them on a downward spiral of negative emotions that further deter future efforts. So, it is self-sabotaging. Because what do we do? We procrastinate, we don’t get things done. And then we beat the living crap out of ourselves. Who that’s not good. You don’t want to do that. So, procrastination is almost a form of self-punishment. And it’s not good. And it’s learned, it’s learned, we learn it from the situation with the disordered family or the disordered lover or the disordered boss or the disordered whatever. So, it’s, you know, we don’t do it, we missed the deadline, we don’t get it done. And then we start telling stories about how horrible we are, and how stupid we are. And you’re this, you’re lazy, you’re that you’re this and next thing you know, you feel like crap. How you say things to yourself matters. So don’t beat yourself up when a procrastination event happens, what you have to do is figure out the who, what, when, where, how, why, and then come up with a plan because that’s what good therapists would do.

To help get over that hump and get through the procrastination to get this goal done. Sometimes it’s filing the divorce papers. Sometimes it’s packing up and leaving. Sometimes it’s dealing with bank issues. Sometimes it’s dealing with the debt. Sometimes it’s dealing with, you know, whatever uncomfortable topic. So, it’s really important to work through that figured out the who, what, when, where, how, why, and start processing. Procrastinators also involve a degree of self-deception. At some level, procrastinators are aware of their actions and consequences. But changing their habits in their minds requires greater effort that actually completing the task in front of them. So, what we tend to do, and this is why I keep saying how you think it is vitally important to how it turns out, because if you tell yourself, “Ah, cleaning the house is gonna be awful.” Well, guess what? Your subconscious is sitting there listening, and it goes, “Okay! She wants it to be awful. Let’s make it miserable guys, okay? Okay, fabulous.” Seriously, and our emotions go down that track. So how you say things, how you think things the subconscious listens to and sets about to make it happen, so that you can stop worrying about it. And you don’t want to create bad days. So it’s the same thing as okay. You wake up in the morning and you say, oh, today is gonna suck, and then it does.

Why? Because you told yourself today was gonna suck and your subconscious went, okay. She wants it to suck kids. Let’s make it a sucky day. It’s just gonna be sucky. Okay. Okay. Everything’s gonna be miserable. Yeah, nothing’s gonna be right. No, absolutely. Nothing’s gonna be right. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, but if you wake up in the morning, and you go, I am going to allow myself to have a good day. The subconscious goes, “Oh, she wants a good day. Okay. Okay, we can do that. Alright, let’s, let’s make it a good day. Okay. Yeah, yeah, everything’s gonna be okay. Yeah, it’s good.”

Kris Godinez  18:41

Do you see where I’m going with that? So how we say things is how it turns out. And I’ll give the example of the actor I worked with an actor that was terrified of falling on stage, I’m gonna trip I’m gonna fall I’m gonna do this and to do that, blah, blah, blah. If you keep thinking that you’re going to, he did. And it was because that’s what he was focused on. It’s like driving, wherever your eyes go, the cars gonna go wherever your brain goes, the emotions are gonna go, same concept. So okay, so what we tell ourselves about the task at hand, really does affect it now.

Do I like cleaning toilets? No, it’s not my favorite. But, I will go you know what, it’s going to smell wonderful. When I’m done. It’s going to be nice and clean. It’s going to be fabulous. I’m gonna put on some music and I’m gonna enjoy myself. And then I clean the toilet, and it’s done. And it’s fabulous. And it smells wonderful. And yeah, and it wasn’t this. How to explain this slogging through molasses to get the toilet clean. But that’s what we do to ourselves is that we tell ourselves, “Oh, it’s gonna be horrible. Oh, it’s gonna be awful.” So, I’ll have clients come in and sit down. And they’ll say, oh, this homework assignment it’s gonna be hard…..stop. Will it be a challenge? Yes, it may be challenging isn’t going to be hard only if you say so. And they’ll kind of look at me and be like, what? And I’ll be like, how you say it is how it turns out how you say it, is what our subconscious sets about to make happen. So you must be meticulous in your thoughts and words. I know. And really be aware of what you’re saying to yourself and how you are saying it to yourself. It doesn’t need to be difficult. But for some reason, in our little inner child mind, it’s like, no, it has to be difficult. Well, why? Because everything with the abuser was difficult, I guarantee it. If there’s an easy road and a hard road, the abuser will always take the hard road, they’ll always make it as dramatic and chaotic, and horrible and awful as they possibly can. And so we grow up thinking everything has to be difficult, it does not always have to be difficult. It doesn’t. It doesn’t need to be difficult.

You know, it’s not necessarily going to be easy, either. But it doesn’t need to be miserable, either. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, you really want to start working on changing your thoughts? How are you thinking about things? Especially the things you procrastinate on? What is the fear? Can you calm the fear down? Can you comfort the inner child? Can you change your thoughts about it? Can you make it a little bit more enjoyable or less anxiety producing or less miserable, or whatever, you know, now, there are some things that are just never going to be fun, like cleaning the toilet, but you do what you can to mitigate it, put on some great music, you know, get a new cleaning thing, you know, sing while you’re doing it. Think of poetry while you’re doing it. You know, it’s like it doesn’t have to be miserable. It doesn’t, it doesn’t I give you permission to have cleaning days that are not miserable. I hate to give you permission to have things not be miserable. It’s okay. You’ve got to tell yourself that because we’ve heard that, you know, it needs to be difficult that quite chaos drama so much. That is really a hard habit to break. But it’s not impossible. So you want to break that habit. And you can, you can, so you want to work on going okay, habit, I hear you I see you I am not playing.

Kris Godinez  22:21

I’m not playing and it’s going to take more than a one and done you’re gonna have to do that probably every single time you go to do that task that you have been procrastinating on because the automatic thoughts, the knee jerk reaction is to procrastinate and to tell yourself all sorts of stories about how horrible it’s going to be. So you’re going to have to change that you’re going to have to change that. Okay, let’s get back to the to the article here. Um, okay, so it involves self deception, deception, we talked about that.

Procrastinators are often perfectionists for whom it may be psychologically more acceptable to never tackle the job analysis paralysis, than to face the possibility of not doing it well. They may be so highly concerned about what others think of them that they put their futures at risk to avoid judgment. Okay. So for this, you are literally what other people think is none of my business, you’re literally going to have to tell yourself that I don’t care what other people think if this isn’t good enough for them, they can go pound sand, seriously, like and you’re going to have to do that because abusers will be like, it’s not good enough. It’s not good enough. If it’s a boss, you do it to the best of your ability. And if they don’t like it, start looking for a new job.

Seriously, I’m you know, I’m so done with these jackwagon bosses that are like so good. And if so I can do it’s not good enough. And yet, they’ll let their little golden children get away with murder. And I’m like, you know, what, just know get a new job. No, no, sorry. You know, and it’s the same thing with families. They’ll let the golden child get away with murder. And then they’ll tell the kid that’s actually doing all the work not good enough. Not good enough. Not good enough. Not good. You know what, if this is not good enough for you? Then I don’t need to be around you. Buh, bye. Buh, bye now. Goodbye, go pound sand. Goodbye. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s… what other people think is really none of our business. And especially if it’s something that’s not impacting other people so much.

So, say for example, okay, so one of the things I’ve heard, when people are leaving abuse, oh, my gosh, I’m terrified that I didn’t do everything right in the court documents. Okay, get a consultation, or go to Fresh Start Women’s Resource Center and go consult with somebody for 15 bucks, and make sure that the paperwork is good, and then turn it in. And really, then the more as we talk. It turns out that that’s just an excuse because they’re afraid of turning it in. And then we got to deal with the fear. Do you see where I’m going with that? Who, what, where, how, why. What’s really underneath the procrastination, what’s really going on? Nine times out of 10 It’s fear, fear of being judged, fear being wrong, you know, fear of having it be real, fear of actually leaving and doing things on your own, fear of, you know, there’s all sorts of stuff going on. It is usually fear based. Okay? Um

Kris Godinez  25:24

Okay, why do I procrastinate. Procrastination is driven by a variety of thoughts and habits, that fundamentally we avoid tasks or put them off because we do not believe we’ll enjoy doing them. Yeah. And we want to avoid making ourselves unhappy, or we fear that we won’t do them well. People may also procrastinate when they are confused by the complexity of a task such as filing taxes, or when they’re overly distracted or fatigued. So again, you want to check in how are you feeling? Are you doing self-care? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you putting things off because you’re not taking care of yourself, and you just don’t have the energy? You know. So it’s really important. It’s like, we are not separate. Our bodies are not separate from our minds, our minds are not separate from our bodies, you must take care of the whole organism, you’ve got to take care of Mind Body Spirit, you know, make sure you’re okay, make sure you’re getting enough water, make sure you’re eating healthy, make sure you’re getting enough sleep, leaving abuse takes a huge amount of energy, mental energy planning, all of that stuff, you know, making sure you’re okay making sure the kids are okay getting help for yourself getting help for your kids. You’ve got to do self-care. And sometimes the procrastination is the codependency.

Okay, who, what, when, where, how, why? Because we put ourselves on the back burner, we have been taking care of ourselves, and we just don’t have the energy to do whatever it is that needs to be done. So that’s why you want to make sure you’re taking care of yourself through this whole process. Okay, hold on. What are the psychological roots of procrastination psychologists have identified various drivers of procrastination from low self-confidence to anxiety, a lack of structure, and simply an inability to motivate oneself to complete unpleasant tasks. Research has also shown that procrastination is closely linked to rumination or becoming fixated on negative thoughts. So, it’s just like what I was saying. It’s like if you turn your eyes, if you’re driving your eyes go that way. Your car’s gonna go that way. You see where I’m going with that? Same thing with the thoughts. If your thoughts start circling the drain, you’re gonna start circling the drain, you must be meticulous in what you were thinking, what you’re saying to yourself. Okay, hold on, are we doing on time? Okay?

Does it serve a purpose? Procrastination is a self-defeating behavior pattern, but it can be seen as serving a psychological purpose, especially for people with perfectionistic tendencies. By protecting the individual against the fear of failure, judgment by others, or self-condemnation. Avoiding unpleasant tasks by devoting energy to other tasks, like organizing or cleaning also helps procrastinators avoid feeling unproductive. So, for example, a lot of clients will come in and say, Okay, I’m gonna go do this. And then when we meet the next time, they’re like, Well, I started this over here. And then I thought, well, since my hands are dirty, I might as well go into the garden and do this. And then once I did that, I realized I needed to come back into the house and clean this. And so they’ll, they’ll, they’ll fill it with other things that do need to be done. But again, it’s avoiding the one thing that really needs to be done. So again, who, what, when, where, how, why? What are you avoiding? Why are you avoiding it? Who does it remind you of? What are you feeling? What are you thinking? Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, so just because you’re, you’re filling your time with other things, you still want to take a look at what you’re avoiding? What what are you avoiding doing? Why are you now suddenly cleaning the entire house when the taxes need to be done? Or why are you doing this over here when the paperwork needs to be filed? You know, to see where I’m going with that.

Kris Godinez  29:17

Okay, um, all right. Why are we so sure that we’ll actually do something later, predicting how we’ll feel in the future is known as effective forecasting. And people tend to be fairly bad at it. For example, procrastinators may feel bad about not having exercise today, but they may raise their mood by predicting that they’ll do it tomorrow. Thus, they avoid feeling negative emotions in the moment but, the cycle is likely to repeat. So, for me, when I realized that I have not done something, I put it off, I will get up and go do it. Like seriously, like, seriously, because doing this future predicting Oh, I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do that. It’s kind of like people who make list and they don’t get all of the things on the list done. And then they beat themselves up for not getting all the things on the list and instead of going, okay, and moving this over to tomorrow’s list, those are the first two ones on the list I’ll do those two first. You know, it’s always that negative, negative, negative, negative, negative. So this is a learned behavior.

So, it’s important to if you do, do lists that you build in time, for a little bit of procrastination, tiny little bit tiny, like 10-15 minutes, max, and then you get right back to doing what you were doing. Or if you do a list, you make sure that you don’t beat yourself up and you don’t have a list that’s a million miles long. You want to do a list that’s maybe three things, you finish those three things, great, do another three things. Make it winnable, make it attainable, make it pleasant, make it fun, make it a win for you. narcissists are all about everyone around them losing in them winning. How about you get yourself a win? So, the win would be three things on your list. You do those great, fantastic, even if you do only one of them. Great, fantastic. I’ll do the other two tomorrow. Okay. But then do make sure you do that. That’s the thing. You can’t just keep going. Oh, I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. I’ll do it tomorrow. After all. Tomorrow’s another day. I always hated that That movie is the worst movie ever on the face of the planet. So thank you, Andrea.

So okay, who’s most likely to procrastinate? People who procrastinate hold different values than people who do not in studies, procrastinators reported valuing personal enjoyment over more highly than others do and valuing. Sorry, let me try that sentence again. People who procrastinate research finds may hold different values than people who do not. In studies, procrastinators report valuing personal enjoyment more highly than others do and valuing a strong work ethic less and more likely to complete tasks they feel are important to them personally, than those that are assigned to them. I don’t know I think I’m going to disagree with that. Because really, when you think about it, getting divorce paperwork done is important personally, and I don’t think that they have a less work ethic. Some of the hardest working people I know are the single moms and dads that are dealing with abusers. So I’m gonna contest that I’m gonna say no, I don’t agree with that.

Consequences of procrastination. Procrastination may relieve pressure in the moment, but it can have steep emotional, physical and practical costs. Students who routine we law students who routinely procrastinate tend to get lower grades. Workers who procrastinate produce lower quality work and in general, habitual procrastination can experience. procrastinators can experience reduced wellbeing in the form of insomnia or immune system or gastrointestinal disturbances, which are all things that people that are going through abuse have. Procrastination can also jeopardize both personal and professional relationships. Is it bad for your health? Yes, you are at a higher risk for hypertension and cardiovascular disease. They tend to engage in more self-blame and disengage from wellness advice suggesting that cultivating greater self-compassion could help such individuals begin taking better care of themselves. Self-compassion Radical Self forgiveness by Collin Tipping so many times survivors of abuse beat the living crap out of the cells. Why didn’t I leave sooner? Why didn’t I do this? Why didn’t I should have done this I could have done that I wouldn’t if you hear, if you hear yourself doing this should have, coulda, woulda that’s mental musturbation. It’s a mind thing. Don’t do it. It’s not good for you. It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s you’re shoulding all over yourself. The second you hear, should have could have woulda… Nope. I’m shoulding all over myself. I am not going to do that. Stop. Do engage in self-care. Do you engage in taking care of you, that’s what you want to do.

Kris Godinez  33:53

Okay, is there a link between procrastination and depression? Yes. What’s the point thinking becomes the main thought you want to work on it with working on the mistaken thoughts working on the mistaken beliefs how to beat procrastination. Okay, here we go. And I will get to the questions. It takes effort to change behavior but it’s not impossible. You want it maybe engage in in cognitive behavioral therapy where they address the mistaken thoughts and the mistaken beliefs. studies based on the procrastination at work scale, which identifies 12 common forms of workplace procrastination have highlighted some potential solutions, such as adopting a timeline that builds in time for delay but not too much.

Making a personal challenge out of mundane tasks. Now, that’s something I do a lot. It’s like, I’ll set a timer and go, can I get it done in 15 minutes? Can I get it? Can I do really good job? In 20 minutes, can I you know, whatever. You make it fun, you make it a game, you know? Or if you’re listening to music, if you’re doing stuff to music, can I get this done before the end of the song? Can I you know, Can I hit the kitchen before you know the album is done or you know, whatever. So, you make it a game, you make it fun! You do ways to find the fun in it. I know. It’s weird. But yeah. You change the mindset, developing empathy for one’s future self…compassion, as what as one would a close friend or child can be an important first step in ending the habit because we’re less willing to put a good friend in such a disadvantaged position. Again, if you were your own child, treat yourself as if you were your own child or your own best friend. You know, would you allow a good friend or your child to sit there and beat themselves up? No, you wouldn’t. So don’t do that with you. There aren’t 100,000 million people that want to kick your ass! Don’t you be one of them! Seriously.

So you’ve got to treat yourself with kindness and compassion and gentle and curiosity. Like really, this whole therapy journey is all about curiosity, the who, the what, the when, the where, the why, the how, you know, it’s like, get curious, and it’s okay to have that childlike kind of, “Oh, wonder why I’m doing that?” You know what I mean? It’s okay. Don’t beat yourself up. Don’t do it! Not allowed. No, no, no more. Don’t do that. No beating yourself up. How can I stop putting off important decisions? Many procrastinators struggle to make important decisions like filing for divorce, in part because they’re not making a choice absolves them of responsibility for the outcome. And a lot of times we’re afraid of making the wrong choice. It’s what if I’m making the wrong choice? What if it’s the wrong thing, but that’s when you got to go back through your list of deal breakers. And that’s when you got to go back through your list of everything that person has done to you. And how many deal breakers did they break? There’s your answer, it’s not the wrong choice. Sometimes people simply become so exhausted from making decisions that it seems impossible to make even relatively unimportant ones.

Research suggests that sticking to a personal set of decision making rules, or outsourcing some decisions to a partner, friend, coworker may help overcome decision fatigue. You know, and of course, if you’re in an abusive relationship, you don’t have that partner to bounce things off of. So, but that’s when you’ve got to find a support group. That’s what it’s important to get a therapist. That’s what it’s important to reach out and get help. It’s okay. So okay, to recap here. Procrastination is based in fear, it’s part of PTSD, CPTSD, it is a trauma response. It is a bad habit. It is something we’ve learned, it’s something that has been indoctrinated in us because we had to be perfect if we’re perfectionist or we’re afraid of making the wrong choice, excuse me, or whatever. So it’s really important to work on self-esteem. Work on your list of deal breakers, write out everything that happened. Remind yourself of what happened. You’re not wrong, okay?

Kris Godinez  38:35

Give your set yourself winnable goals like little, like, two or three things on a list. Do that. Great! You did it! Now you can do two or three things tomorrow. Great, perfect. build in some time, you know, but not too much time. Be aware of the self-deception be aware of the “Oh, it’ll be okay. I’ll do it tomorrow.” No, get up and do it now. Absolutely. So, like if I realized I have not stood up and walked around and worked out or moved or whatever from my desk. It’s like oh, okay, that’s part of the reason why I got the watch because every hour it’ll be like okay, no, thank you. I’m not talking to you. Thank you get you know, get up walk you know, go do something. So, you know things little things to help you absolutely. And the biggest thing is self-compassion. Radical Self-Forgiveness Colin Tipping gentle with you all of these jerks in your life that have been abusive. You don’t need that from you. You don’t need that from them either. But you don’t need that from you. Can procrastination be overcome? Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s the good news.

Work on the thoughts work on the beliefs the who, what, when, where, how, why. Good with a good trauma therapist, work the workbooks love that inner child like nobody’s business, give the inner child the confidence to do what they need to do and to not care what other people think it doesn’t matter what other people think other people can go pouncing Seriously. So there is that. I hope that helped. Now let’s get to the questions. Okay, hold on. Let me get over here. And let me make this bigger so I can see it. Oh my god. Come on, there we go.

Is it common? That the narcissistic victims are afraid of doing something they enjoy? Because they feel they’re not allowed to? Yes. Oh my god. Yes, I can, Lord. So narcissists are selfish. Every single four letter words you can think of. And they are petty and jealous, and they are emotionally operating on that maybe, a two year old on a good day if the wind is blowing in the right direction. So, if the target of abuse is doing something that they enjoy, or is buying themselves something, the abuser will come in and be like, well, how can you get to do this? How can you get to have that? How come I don’t have you’re an adult, go buy yourself one. Hello, you know, this is for me, you know. So they’ll do that they’ll they’ll be angry that you’ve done something for yourself, or that you’ve bought something for yourself? Or that you’re doing something for yourself, or you’re enjoying yourself, somehow They’ll ruin it, They’ll ruin it, because it’s not about them, number one, and number two, They’ll ruin it because they don’t feel joy, and how dare you feel joy? How dare you enjoy something when they can’t? Literally, that’s how they think they’re petty. They’re petty, like nobody’s business.

So, it’s kind of like, how do I explain this? It’s like, they’ll get jealous over the weirdest damn things, even if it’s something they’re not interested in. So like, say, for example, you like soccer, and they don’t, but you’re enjoying the game, they’ll get angry that you’re enjoying the game. I just Yeah. So you know, or they’ll, this one happened recently, they’ll come in and complain to the partner, that the partner How dare the partner be successful in their business? How dare you have time to take care of yourself during the day when I don’t? What? I’m sorry, this person has worked their hind end off, to be successful in their business, own their own business and be able to take time off whenever they want or need. So, this is a you problem.

Kris Godinez  42:29

this is not this person’s problem. But they’ll do that they’re petty, and they’re jealous, because they want what you have. You know, they don’t look at all the hard work you put into it. You know that you have your own business and that you’re doing this, you’re doing that? No, they just want to take what you have, and they want to be angry about it. And they don’t want to bother figuring out how they do can have free time, etc. So that is what they do. You know, they they absolutely. And so then when we leave that abusive relationship, and you know, we’ll go to watch soccer game, for example, we’ll feel guilty or we’ll feel weird about it. Because we’re waiting for that other shoe to drop. We’re waiting for that punishment. We’re waiting for that. How dare you enjoy that? How dare you buy that for yourself? How dare you have a job you love? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, that’s absolutely what they do. And it does take time to get through that weird feeling of guilt. And what you do is you write them a go pound sand letter, dear abuser, go pound sand. You know what? I get to enjoy soccer. I get to have a job where I take time off. I get to buy things for myself. I get to, you know, fill in the blank. But they wanted to make us feel guilty. Absolutely. Because they can’t feel it. And it pisses them off when we feel something that they cannot ever feel. So yeah, they absolutely do that. Second part of that question is my narc mom would often wouldn’t let me do these things because she didn’t want it. Yeah, if they don’t understand it. Again, if it doesn’t affect them directly. If they don’t enjoy it, if they don’t like it, they can’t understand why we would enjoy it. And remember, they want us to be them. They want us to be mini mess like they like football. You like soccer, which is funny because football is soccer in Europe. But you know what? American football, they like American football. We like soccer. They’ll try to get you to like football American football instead of soccer. So because they want us to like everything they like and if we like something they don’t like, well how dare you not be me? How dare you not think what I think How dare you not like what I like? So is that enmeshment? It’s that weird weird enmeshment.

Oh, can you speak a little more about how disordered people punish us for both failure and too much success. Okay, so again, there is no separation between us and the abuser in the abusers mind, we are them. They are us, we are them. And we damn well better act like them, and we better make them look good. And if we fail, we’ve made them look bad. How dare we, okay? Or conversely, they’re just looking for an excuse to punish because their status and they enjoy it or we’ve done well, and they’re angry because we outshone them. So that is something that abusers do because they’re crazy seriously, there’s no winning with them, you cannot win, there’s no winning with them. Too much. Not enough, too much. Not enough, too much not enough. That’s their whole thing. And they’ll punish you for failing, they’ll punish you for succeeding. They’ll punish you for just sitting there. They’ll punish you for having a thought they’ll punish you for the winds blowing, you know if that’s just who they are. So when somebody is punishing somebody, no matter what, get the hell away from them. They’re crazy. They’re toxic, get away, get away. But that’s what they do. And there’s no logic behind it. And I think that’s where a lot of survivors of abuse get really stuck is that they keep looking for the why are they doing this? But why are they doing here’s why they’re doing it. They’re crazy. That’s your answer. They are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They enjoy it their sadists. They like punishing they like hurting they like harming. So yeah, they’re crazy. It is nothing you did nothing you did. Nothing you did. Absolutely. All right. Let’s go to the next question.

Kris Godinez  46:43

All right, I have been coming out of denial, followed by betrayal by my now no contact brother. When do I know I have felt my feelings enough to start up again? Start what up? Again? I’m not sure I understand the question. So let me try to answer it to the best of my ability because I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about. If you are talking about start up again, start. Okay. Can you tell me more? What do you mean start up again? Do you mean start dating again? So let me answer that question. And if that’s not the right one, then hopefully you’ll type in what you are talking about. And I will be able to answer that. But let me answer this. So okay, when we come out of an abusive relationship, and there has been betrayal, okay, if you’re talking about dating again, you’re not ready to date until you really work on your self-esteem, your boundaries, your list of deal breakers, seriously, like, you need to grieve. You’re going through the grieving process when we leave an abusive relationship, whether that’s a family of origin, a boss, friend, romantic partner, whatever.

Grief takes a year, a normal grief pattern takes a year to go through all the firsts and to process through all of the weirdness. You know, especially with abuse, it’s like, okay, the betrayal, this that, you know, etc, etc, etc, and getting through all the first and the second year, it’s like, okay, now I’m allowing myself to enjoy things that the abuser wouldn’t let me enjoy, right? Because this is complicated grief. This is not normal grief. This is complicated grief, because we’ve got this love hate relationship going on with the abuser. We love them. We hated their behavior. You know, they were abusive, and we love them what the hell. So, we’re dealing with this complicated grief. So we’re dealing with all of these mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, the things the lies that they said about us. The gaslighting, the cheating, the stealing the, you know, the all of that. So, you got to get through the complicated grief, you got to work through the trauma CPTSD from surviving to thriving P. Walker, get with a good trauma therapist, you’re ready to date. When you know who you are, you’re ready to date when you’ve worked on your self-esteem. You’ve got your boundaries in place, you’ve got your list of deal breakers, and you’re not putting on blinders, when the red flags are looking like a communist parade. Seriously. So that’s the big thing. It’s like write down all the red flags. What were the red flags you ignored? What are red flags of abusers that you need to be watching for and you do so you know and trusting your gut. Are you practicing trusting your gut? Are you working on do you trust what you know that you know? Are you working on your certainty? You know, don’t listen to your head don’t listen to your heart. Listen to your gut. Listen to your gut. So that’s when you know you’re ready to date again is when you’re listening to your gut. Your self-esteem is in place your boundaries are in place you recognize red flags. You can see them coming a mile away. You sidestep them you Don’t even deal with them. You know, you don’t get involved with an abuser, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. That’s when you know you’re ready to date again.

As far as if you mean you’ve been betrayed by the brother and you want to reestablish a relationship with them, I would be very cautious. Why were you betrayed? What What? What was their goal? Who are they siding with? What’s going on? If you are going to have a conversation with them, have it with a therapist, you know, have a third party there that can call them to the carpet if they need to. Be very careful about going to therapy with an abuser. If the brother is an abuser, don’t do it. Just go no contact and stay no contact. Let me make sure I understood that question. I mean, coming out of denial, followed by betrayal by my now no contact brother, when do I know I have felt my feelings enough to start up again.

Kris Godinez  50:54

So I don’t know what you mean by start up again. So, if you could be a little more specific, that would help. But if it is starting up again, with the brother, if they betrayed you, be very cautious. And if you do decide to do a therapy session, make sure it’s with a good DBT therapist, trauma therapist that understands family dynamics, etc. And that is going to be an advocate for you, to keep you safe so that you can bring up the difficult topics or whatever and then trust your gut, don’t allow if this person is continuing to betray you. No. They’re not allowed in your life. Absolutely. So, I don’t know if that answered the question or not. But if you could either put it in the comments, so I can answer the question. Or if you could, I am me on Facebook, so I get a better understanding of what you’re asking. That would be good. Okay. All right.

Um, all right. About how many items would you suggest having on a daily To Do List of work and errands I would say no more than three. Start small. If you can do the three easy, no problem, okay, increase it by one or two. But don’t do a laundry list of oh my god, you know, it’s this mile long, 20 items list. It’s like, start small, give yourself a win. Seriously. So start with three if three is easy, and you get them done. Add two more. Okay, I got the five done. Okay. Add one more. Okay, I got the 6 done. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like start small. Give yourself little wins. Give yourself little wins, because God knows. Our abusers love to just take the carpet and rip it out from underneath us. So, give allow yourself to enjoy little wins. So don’t overwhelm yourself with a long laundry list. It’s like, start small and then with if that works out, add more and do more that day. You know, but only go until you want to in that okay, I’ve done six things. I’m tired. Okay, take a break. Pat yourself on the back, take a break, go get some water. Okay, do these things really need to be done today are not? Okay. Yeah, they do. Okay, well, let me go back out and finish them. You know, again, that’s kind of like, if I realize I haven’t finished something that needs to be finished, I’ll get up and go do it. You know, don’t put it off, put it off, put them off, put it off, put it off. And it’s practice. It’s learning a new behavior. It’s learning a good healthy habit. It’s doing something different. And gentle with you.

Compassion is the key. Compassion is the key. Okay, um, is avoiding competition. The same as procrastination? Yeah. Because you’re avoiding not failing. Basically. It depends on what you mean by that. So now, hold on, let’s be clear here. Abusers put everybody in competition with each other. That’s not healthy. That’s not normal. Life is not a competition. Now, if you’re avoiding competition, as in, you’re not doing something because you don’t want to fail, then that’s an issue. Does that make sense? So, like, for example, let’s say you want to do sports, but you’re afraid of failing. Well, okay. You also never give yourself the chance to win if you don’t even try. Does that make sense? So yeah, avoiding things. Let me read that question. Again. Make sure I understood is avoiding competition, the same as procrastination? Yeah, kind of, kind of. So avoidant personality disorder is somebody who chronically avoids everything and their, their world just gets tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny adults miniscule. So you don’t want to do that. So there are going to be instances in life when there are things that are a competition. Absolutely.

But you don’t want it to be a narcissistic competition. So, in other words, narcissists put their kids pit their kids against each other and it’s competition for their attention. So I mean, if it’s that kind of competition, no, you don’t play Absolutely. If it’s like, okay, I’m writing an essay so I can get a grant. Yeah, do it. Absolutely. So, there is that. Oh, my gosh, thank you. Oh, thank you. Um, so where was I going with that? So yeah, I mean, it depends on what the competition is. If it’s if it’s a psychological competition, hell no, don’t play. But if it’s something that you’re wanting to do you know, that you’re afraid because there’s other people doing it will you’ll never win if you don’t even try, you know, so. And here’s the thing. Abusers make us think that failure is the worst thing ever. How dare you fail. But here’s the deal. How do babies learn how to walk?

Kris Godinez  55:44

They fall a lot, sometimes on their heads. Right? So, babies fall, no judgment. They fall, but abusers will judge them, abusers will make them wrong for falling, abusers will put them down and tell them they’re stupid. I’ve seen abusive parents do that. Don’t get me started. So, they make it so that this, you know, failing is somehow a horrible thing. No, you know what failure is? Well, crap that didn’t work. What can I do differently? Okay, so babies learn how to get balance. Thank you very much. By falling by failing, quote, unquote, you know, they fall and then they get back up and THEY GIGGLE which cracks me up, oh, my God. And then they’ll toddle along and then they’ll fall down again, and then they’ll go, Okay, let’s try this, you know, and that’s how they learn. So, we learn from our failures, if you’re smart, seriously, if things don’t work, you kind of go well, crap, that didn’t work. What went wrong? Well, maybe I should do this next time. Okay. Well, let me do that next time. And instead as sitting there judging yourself and beating yourself up Mia culpa, Mia, culpa, mea maxima culpa, I’m a terrible person for failing. No, you’re human.

Kris Godinez  56:59

Okay. What did you learn? What did you learn? What was the learn? What was the lesson? What can you do differently next time? That’s really what a failure is. And I think that is the difference between people who are able to move forward in life and people who are stuck is that instead of getting stuck in all the story that’s going on in the head. “Oh, it means this, it means that you’re a terrible person. You’re a failure. You’re bla bla bla, bla, bla, bla, thank you for your input. Shut the bleep up. Why? Because I say so. No, it means it didn’t work.” And because it’s an and world, it’s my favorite saying it’s an and world. What can I do differently next time? Oh, okay. Well, I will do this differently next time. Okay. And then it works. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, I think you’ve got to change the way you think about failing. It’s not that you want to fail, but what did you learn from it? And what can you do differently next time? And how can you not beat yourself up? You know, how can you reframe that? How can you change what you say to you? So that’s really important.

All right, kids. So that is it I think, let me double check. Hold on. Did I did I get oh, no, wait, there is one more, hang on. I’ve isolated myself in fear. And to feel my feelings from childhood, my brother, not going back. I wonder if I can start life again. Like go out and get a new dog and not focus on what’s coming up. Oh, oh, okay. So that was another question. Okay, I got it. You’ve isolated yourself. Got it! How do you know that you’re feeling okay, starting up again? Starting your life again, living your life. So Okay. Thank you. Thank you for sending that in.

Okay, so quickly, because I’m gonna go over time now. Basically, it’s it’s a little at a time, it’s not like this destination where oh my god, now I can start my life again. It’s like, Okay, I’m coming out of isolation and coming out of denial. I’d like to get a dog I want to I want to go do these things. You do it a little bit at a time get with a good trauma therapist, get with a self-esteem workbook. Get with radical forgiveness, radical acceptance, Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach. Radical Forgiveness by Collo, Tipping. Radical Self-forgiveness by Collin Tipping. You do things a little at a time. And you know, pick one, you know, start there. And you just keep going. It’s not like, it’s not like, oh, I have arrived and now my life begins. It’s like, no, your life is still going. And because it’s an and world. And I’m getting a dog, and I’m working on my self-esteem. And I’m seeing a therapist. And you’re doing that all at once. Does that make sense? So, you just take little things at a time and you just keep building and your life will happen. You know what I’m saying? It’s like you don’t want to… the only thing that I would say put on hold is the romantic stuff because you want to make sure like I said, you see the red flags you understand the red flags. If you have a list of deal breakers, you’re not going to allow somebody to treat you like that, again, you’ve got good self-esteem, you’ve got good boundaries.

That’s the only thing I would put on hold everything else, getting a dog going exploring your world, figuring out who you are, you could do that right now you could you could get a dog and get the self-esteem workbook, you could get a dog and go see a therapist. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, the only thing I would put on hold is the romantic stuff. Because if you’ve been in an abusive relationship romantically, you need to make sure you get all of those things nailed down so that your inner child doesn’t pick another abuser. Because remember, the inner child, if they’re not worked on the inner child goes, Oh, looking outside. Oh, I know somebody who kind of sort of subconsciously reminds me of whoever was difficult in the family. I know. If I can make them love me, I prove mom and dad wrong. Half of a doodoo sandwich, half of a doodoo. Sandwich. Total doo doo sandwich. So but for the rest of your life, you know, getting a dog going exploring your world, find configuring out who you are, you can do that.

Get a therapist, get the self-esteem workbook, get a dog. It’s an and world, get support, get support, support, good friends, good support, and start allowing yourself to live your best life. What does that look like? Write it down. Write it down! You know, have fun with that. What have you always wanted to do that you never were able to or that you weren’t allowed to or whatever, you know, start looking at how to do that. How are you going to make that happen? But do get with a good therapist do work. The workbooks do look at getting a dog from a shelter or rescue because they’re overflowing right now. And yeah, so there’s that I hope that answered the question. If not let me know.

All right, my love’s now I’m going to end the show. Please remember Suzanna Quintana is a wonderful life coach. I love her to death her book is available. You can always find her at Suzannaquintana.com Let’s see what else what else, we need to tell you. Also tickets are available at krisgodinez.com For not just Honolulu but Atlanta. So that’s it. All right, you guys have a great week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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The post 09-18-2022 Procrastination appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA, or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:02

Okay. Hi, guys. All right. So, lots to talk about today. Oh, my goodness. So um, all right. So in in current events, I want to cover a couple of things. So, the teacher that was kidnapped in I think it was Tennessee. Unfortunately, her body has been found. We are still missing Irene Gakwa. So she is missing in Cheyenne, Wyoming, no, Cheyenne, sorry, Gillette, Gillette, Wyoming. They have a person of interest that they’re looking at, but they need more information. So, if anybody knows anything about Irene Gakwa’s disappearance, please contact that Cheyenne No, not Cheyenne, Gillette, Wyoming police department that would be great.

Today is the 21st anniversary of 911. We talked a little bit about what to do when things are overwhelming with the news. And sometimes you just kind of got to let the emotions go with it. You know what I’m saying? So today, I was looking at some pictures that the journalists had taken and that were not released before and I was in tears the whole time. So, it’s important to acknowledge and to validate what you’re feeling and allow, just allow it. It’s like that is incredibly sad. What happened was incredibly sad and hearing the stories of the widows and widowers and things like that. And you just allow the emotions and can you do anything? No. It was 21 years ago? And education I think is the key and psychopaths. Dark triads are the ones that kill and have no remorse. So thinking of that today, there was a lot so there is that but the other thing that also has been in the news recently, again, abusers again, abuser, so the disappearance of Irene Gawka, the 911 attacks, they were abusers, they were absolutely arrogant, thought they could, you know, harm people and be okay with that. And that’s not okay.

And then, Brendan Fraser finally made a comeback, which is fantastic. And he was talking about his sexual abuse and his physical abuse, because he was talking about how his body was just broken down from all of these action roles. And nobody in the industry cared. Nobody. Nobody was like, Hey, let’s get a stunt person in to do this. Hey, let’s you know, no. So, you know, he should have spoken up. I don’t know if he did, and maybe they ignored him. I don’t know. But I’m thrilled that he’s back. And I’m thrilled that he’s talking about the abuse that he went through the sexual abuse that he went through and the physical abuse from the industry and things like that. So that makes me very happy that he’s doing that.

And then House of Hammer I don’t know if you guys have been watching that or not, it’s on Discovery plus it is a documentary. It is about the family of the Armand hammers and all the way down to Armie Hammer who was accused of abusing a lot of women and cannibalism and all sorts of things so and realize this is all you know, alleged at this point. Apparently, he has gone to the Cayman Islands and there’s no charges as of yet. But the number of women coming forward and their stories… in the end it was very compelling so be aware if you are going to watch it it is going to be triggering I found myself at several points having to stop and walk away so but it’s a good, it’s a good documentary and you will see patterns you will see behaviors that every single survivor of abuse has gone through the love bombing, the devalue, the discard, the lying, the gaslighting, the this, the that. So, it’s a really good documentary. And I’m glad they’re doing it because again, it puts a spotlight on Yeah, this this stuff happens. And it happens to people that you wouldn’t think it would happen to. So, there’s that. So, so much current events this week. So anyway, there is that.

So today, I want to cover two topics. It was brought to my attention that I didn’t quite finish covering the adult kids and drama and I also want to go into collapsed narcissist, collapsed personality disorder. So um, let’s start with finishing up the topic of adult kids and dramas. So, what if the adult kid is the one causing the drama? What if the adult kid is the one that has the personality disorder? What if they are narcissistic? What if they are borderline personality disorder? What are their narcissistic? What if they’re not getting help? What if they are the ones that are constantly roiling the pot, causing problems, dragging family members into it, etc., etc. This is super hard for the for the sane parent. So, it’s hard because you’re going to have to have incredibly strong boundaries as if they were a stranger. If you wouldn’t let a stranger behave like that, you sure as hell shouldn’t let a child and adult child behave like that either. They don’t have the right just because they’re your child to do this, and this is something that somebody brought up in a question that I think I am going to be talking about on Wednesday more.

But you know, what if they use their diagnosis, you know, oh, you can’t get mad at me. I have fill in the blank. No, that doesn’t fly. I’m sorry. That does not fly. That that’s just another way of using an excuse for your bad behavior. So bad behavior is not allowed to continue Absofreakinglutely. If they were not your child, would you put up with this? If the answer is no, act accordingly. And that’s hard. Because what I hear a lot of very codependent parents do is, but my God, it’s my child. And I’m like, Okay, and? because it’s an and world, would you put up with this from a stranger? No. Okay, well, then why are you putting up with it, but it’s my child, it doesn’t matter. This is, this is a boundary, you need to draw a boundary here. And whether they go and try to, you know, rally the troops or not, that’s going to tell you a lot about who the other family members are. Because again, if this person goes on a smear campaign, if this person goes on a, you know, I’m going to show you I’m going to make you look like the bad guy campaign and people are buying it, then you just now know who the flying monkeys in the family are. And, and the truth of the matter is, guys, and this is a hard truth. Sometimes the kids do end up with personality disorders. Sometimes the kids do act just like that ex, whether it’s the mom or the dad, or whoever had the personality disorder, and they’re not working on themselves, they don’t want to work on themselves. They’re adults, they’re not willing to go to therapy, they’re not willing to change, they’re not willing to do…. okay, they’re showing you who they are. That does just because you gave birth to them does not mean you need to put up with their abuse. Let me say that again. Just because you gave birth to them, does not mean you need to put up with their abuse, or just because you were the father, you don’t need to put up with their abuse. I’m sorry. You don’t need to put up with abuse from anybody and I don’t care who the H E double toothpicks they think they are. So you’re going to have to let go the guilt. Let go of the guilt and remember, personality disordered children, adult children love to use fear, obligation guilt. You know your my, Mother, you’re my father, how dare you you.

Kris Godinez  08:54

You can’t tell me to not do this or whatever. And guilt guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, and, it’s the same with any family member, you’ve got to just be like, No means no, this behavior is not going to fly. I’m not going to allow it. You don’t get to abuse me and you can call it out. And if they don’t like it too bad. You know, the other thing you can suggest is okay, you want a relationship with me. Here’s the ground rules, you and I go to a DBT family therapist, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy DBT Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. That is the only known modality that works with personality disorders, does it change narcissists? No! In the history of ever a narcissist has never not been a narcissist. And we’re going to talk more about that when I start talking about the collapse Narcissists so um, basically it’s that you treat the child you would anybody. If you were not related to this person if this were not your son or your daughter, would you put up with this? And if the answer is known, damn well better me. You don’t put up with it, you know what to do, you’re going to have to draw the strong boundaries.

Now, a lot of times I see parents incredibly codependent. But but but you know, and they’re siding with the abuser. So they’re doing that ego defense, that inner child because they hadn’t worked on the inner child ego defensive siding with the aggressor. And so they’ll sacrifice the other kids in order to appease the one child that is disordered. That’s not okay either. And I have personal experience with that my mom did that. My mom, I called her out on her behavior. I said, Look, you’re doing this, you’re harming these kids in order to appease this kid. What are you doing? And she just got that cutesy little look on her face because she knew what she was doing. And she’s like, Well, I’m not going to stop. You can’t make me and I’m like, No, I can’t make you but I can sure as hell call it out and not put up with it and not play. And I’m not going to. So yeah, she and I had some contention over that because it was like, Yeah, I see what you’re doing. And I’m not playing so. Um, but that’s what they do because they’re afraid of confronting that disordered person because it’s the inner child again, appeasing the aggressor. That’s an ego defense. So, work on your self-esteem if you’ve got a child that is disordered, and you find yourself cow telling to them at the expense of other kids. That’s not okay. That is not okay. I’m going to call that out right here right now. That is not okay. You need to work on self-esteem, self-esteem and boundaries. So, Self-Esteem workbook Glenn Schiraldi. You’re a Badass Jen Sincero, Badass Habits Jen Sincero. CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker, any book on codependency seriously, start working on it, and you’re gonna have to say no, and you will be the bad guy.

Let’s just be clear about that. Whenever someone stands up to an abuser, they are then the bad guy. Which is why I’m so thrilled that people rallied around the people coming out on House of hammer. Although they did get trolls they did get a whole bunch of trolls going after them. But there was more people that were supporting them. And same thing with Brendan Fraser. I’m thrilled that he’s got people that are like, go you Yeah, this is happening. Yeah, that has happened. Yeah, you know, it’s like, you’re not, you’re not crazy, you’re not the problem. And that’s immediately what abusers do is they try to set it up that the person who is calling out the behavior is crazy, or lying, or doing it for attention, what when, who’s the person that’s crazy and lying and doing it for attention? That would be the abuser. So it anyway, I hope that that kind of answers the question. So if it’s an adult child that’s causing the drama, you’ve got to have strong boundaries, just as if you were dealing as if you were dealing with a stranger, or as if you were dealing with an ex or as if you were dealing with another family member that was disordered and you simply do not allow the behavior, allowing behavior is not going to make them healthy.

Kris Godinez  13:09

And I think that’s the thought that goes on in a lot of the codependent parents heads is that oh, if I give in, then they’ll see. And they’ll see that I love them. And they’ll stop behavior. No one. No, they won’t. And they don’t. And they won’t change. I cannot stress this enough. If it’s more than just traits of it, they’re not going to change, they’re not going to change, they’re not going to have an epiphany, they’re not going to suddenly be like, Oh, I have been a terrible child to my parent, I’m going to apologize on the you know, straighten up and fly, right and all of that. So that’s not going to happen. That’s not going to, if they are personality disordered then they are personality disordered. And they’re, if they’re not working on themselves, they’re not going to change. And if they’re a narcissist, they’re not going to change. And if they’re a dark triad, they’re not going to change. So um, anyway, there is that.

So, let me now kind of switch gears and the other half of this is going to be on Okay, so what if the narcissist collapses? What does that look like? Or what does it look like when somebody with borderline personality disorder collapses? So, the key to both of those collapses is usually rage. So, they will, how do I explain this? Okay? narcissists live in a false reality. Obviously, they think their doodoo does not stink, and they think they’re special and they think that they know more than everybody else, etc., etc., etc. So when that delusion gets blown up, either by them being outed, so they’re discovered, they’re exposed, you know, people are now aware of the behavior and aware of what they’re doing, or the person that they have decided was their narcissistic supply leaves them you know just and leaves them no way to get back at them and leaves them no way to you know regain power and all of that stuff. That’s when they do the narcissistic collapse and the funny thing of it is that oftentimes I will have the partner be like Oh, but they’re getting therapy now and Oh, but they’re so sad and Oh, but they’re, you know, it’ll be different next… Oh God, no people listen to me now believe me later. The narcissistic collapse is all about the narcissist. They don’t give a flying rat’s behind about anybody else. They’re having a pity party. That’s what they’re sad about. They’re not sad that they hurt you. There. There’s a hard truth guys, I can hear a lot of people out there going along. Yeah, buckle up, baby. It’s going to be bumpy here for a little bit. So, they don’t care that they hurt you. They don’t care. They don’t care. What they care about is their ego is hurt. That’s what they’re sad about. That’s what they’re crying about. That’s what they’re regretful about. They’re not regretting the way they treated you. They’re not regretting the way they acted. They’re not sad, that you’ve left. They’re sad. They don’t have power and control. When I say there is no they’re up there. There is no they’re up there. Crickets. There is no sympathy, no empathy, no feeling, no ability to put themselves into somebody else’s shoes. If it does not relate directly to them, they cannot relate to it. That’s that’s the crazy thing. I mean, this is this is when you know you’re dealing with somebody empathic, that has empathy, because they can’t go wow, what must it be like to be in that person’s shoes? You know, what must it have been like to be those photographers taking pictures of 911 and being helpless? And going, Oh, crap. This is a historical event. And I’m a human being and I got to take pictures. And I’m losing my mind right now. I couldn’t even imagine. I couldn’t I couldn’t even imagine. I couldn’t imagine being on the streets that day. And I can imagine. That’s why it’s so upsetting. But do you see where I’m going with that is like, if you can put yourself in somebody else’s shoes, you have empathy. If you can go wow, what must that have felt like? Gosh, you know, that’s Ooh, he, I just want to wrap my arms around them and just hug all of them. So no, I’m getting for farklimped. Okay. So, the point being is, is that narcissists can’t do that. They don’t care if it didn’t affect them, they don’t care. So like, you know, a narcissist will say things like, well, that doesn’t affect me. Why are you upset? That doesn’t affect me? What? What? Do you know what I’m saying? And that’s what they do, because they really, truly don’t get it because it doesn’t affect them. If it affects them, then they will care about it, but they won’t care about the other people it effects.

So where was I going with this? Oh, so a collapsed narcissists. So a collapse narcissists, when they lose power, control, they’re exposed, they’re embarrassed or humiliated.

Kris Godinez  18:10

They’re, they can’t, they can’t do the manipulation that they’re used to doing. Their partner leaves them and leaves them with no way to get back at them. What they’ll do is then they’ll do the, you know, ah, I need a therapist, I’m so depressed. And so they’ll seek out a therapist, and they’ll go literally for one to three times I kid you not. Unless they find a therapist, they can manipulate. And then they, you know, tell their partner Oh, I’m in therapy. Yeah, you went three times, dude, or dudette, you know, so they don’t ever change. They don’t ever really have that that epiphany that, that awareness, they are not self-aware. They never have been, they never will be in the history of ever that does not occur.

So um, anyway, so a collapsed narcissist is temporary. And this is, this is when a lot of people fall prey to the Hoover. This is when a lot of people fall prey to the Oh, but look how sad they are. Oh, but look how, you know, now they’re in therapy. And, you know, oh, but look at this. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you want to look over the long-term people. Long term behavior, not short term. So, what they’re counting on is they’re counting on you to take a look at what they’re doing right here right now. And again, they’re not able to keep up the façade, the mask, of working on themselves, because they’re not going to because they really don’t think they need to. And when they come into therapy, I can tell you that what they want to do is talk about the other person all the time, they don’t want to talk about themselves. And so when I start you know, after the first session when they start trying to talk about the other person, I’m like, Nope, you’re here for you. What are you wanting to work on and boom, that’s when they’re out. Because they don’t want to work on themselves because they know they know that they will be exposed for what they are. So, and they don’t want to deal with it, they don’t want to they don’t want to deal with the fact that they’re not perfect and that their doo doo does stink, you know?

So um All right, so a collapse narcissists, narcissists can express depression and sorrow, but again, the depression and the sorrow depression for them is repressed anger. They’re angry, that you got away, they’re angry that they’re not able to manipulate and control and, you know, do their raging and everything else that they’re used to doing. A collapse, Narcissist will express sadness, but it’s sadness that about them. It’s not about you, or the kids or anything else, okay. And it’s temporary, it is so temporary, it’ll last move a couple of weeks, maybe a month, maybe if you’re lucky, on a good day, if the wind is blowing in the right direction, so they don’t change permanently, ever. So, they’ll have this collapse, they’ll be depressed, they’ll be sad, or conversely, they will go on a vengeful rage and stalkers. So those are the those are the dark triads, those are the ones that go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, and decide that they’re going to get you and they start stalking and they start you know, leaving notes and calling obsessively and this that and the other thing, so they do kind of one or two things or a combination, okay?

Kris Godinez  21:31

And um, the stalking can last if they are dark triads, because that gives them a sense of power. So basically, it’s all about them realizing that they’re not God and they don’t like it and so they’re having a massive pity party and so it looks to the outsider that doesn’t hasn’t studied this stuff. Oh, you know, they’re feeling sad. Oh, they’re feeling depressed. Well, they don’t feel emotions the way you and I feel them seriously. I cannot stress that enough. When they are feeling sad or depressed, that depression is repressed anger, it’s going to come out trust me. The sadness is about them. It’s not about other people. There’s no regret. There’s no remorse. There’s no you know, wow, I affected this person that none of that zip zero, zilch, nada. So it’s, it’s deceptive for people looking from the outside. And if you understand what you’re dealing with, you recognize a class narcissist for what they are, because they can’t help but be nasty. Like, even when they’re doing their I’m so sad, blah, blah, blah, it will slip out. Oh, well, this person, you know, roar and they’ll, you know, say something disparaging or nasty about their partner or whoever they perceived harmed them, instead of working on them. Does that make sense?

So collapse Narcissists, it happens throughout the relationships. So, like when when the person leaves them, or when they don’t get that job promotion that they were certain that they were destined to get, you know, they’ll go into a huge depression and a huge funk and everything, usually taking it out on the people around them, okay? When the person leaves them, that makes them angry, it makes them depressed, because now they don’t have control over them. And they’re found in the old age homes, honestly. So it’s the same thing with borderlines, if the borderline personality disordered person has got a co morbid diagnosis of narcissism. Or if the narcissism is very strong, and then really strong traits of, they’ll do the collapse thing too when they don’t get their way, when they don’t, you know, have the power and control when they cannot manipulate when you say no to them. That’s usually when the raging happens.

I had a very bizarre situation. This is back when I was very first started. And this client was definitely BPD borderline personality disorder, full blown. And we were talking and I was recommending books for this person. And I said, you know, they’re also available on Audible, and for some reason that triggered this person to come unglued and rage. And I was like what the..? and you know, and when I went talk to my mentor, John Nixon, and we were talking about it, he was like, well, you pointed out that, you know, she may have a learning disability and she didn’t like that. And she came unglued when you suggested you know, reading it, or listening to it on Audible. And I say I do that for all my clients because not everybody is a reader. Not everybody likes reading it doesn’t mean you have a learning disability. It means you don’t like reading and you like listening better. And that’s how you learn, you know, and he’s like, Did you explain that to her? And I’m like, Well I tried to but she was literally throwing things and that’s bizarre you know, in the thinking is bizarre unfortunately with that personality disorder with borderline personality disorder because it borders on psychotic thinking So if their ego gets hurt, they will fly off into a crazy rage that you’re sitting here going. That’s not what I said, you know, and that was not the intention. But they heard it as a, you know, an attack or whatever. So basically, raging is the common denominator, lack of empathy is the common denominator between those two personality disorders and collapse.

Kris Godinez  25:28

So when there’s a perceived slight or perceived insult, or a perceived attack, or perceived anything, and they’re feeling insecure, and this goes for narcissists as well. And if they’re exposed, then yeah, that’s when the collapse happens. And these collapsed narcissists are most commonly found in the old age home.

So I’ve told this story 1000 million times, when they lose their looks, they can’t deal with it. Like literally, they cannot do they’re doing crazy things like, you know, dyeing their hair, really dark and trying to look young and, you know, all the plastic surgeries and, and just, you know, things where it’s kind of like you’re in your 70s or 80s. Now, there’s nothing wrong with looking good. I’m totally fine with that. But if you’ve got somebody who is obsessed, and I mean obsessed with, I need to look young, I need to look young. And it’s like, well, you need to look good. Yeah, for sure. I dig it. Looking good is good. But you know, you’re not 20 anymore, you’re in your 70s or 80s. But narcissists can’t cope with that, especially if they’re the somatic ones. If they’re the somatic narcissist, oh, my God, when their bodies start catching up with them, and you know, things go south, they are so angry, they are so angry, and they’re reeling at everybody, the nurses, the doctors, God, you know, the staff, other people. And narcissists are all about power and control. And when they start losing power control over their own body and their somatic Narcissus, holy crap, that’s, that’s when the doodoo hits the fan. And it’s also when they lose the money. Okay, they’re older, they’re in a in a care facility, they may have a power of attorney, they don’t have control over the finances anymore. They can’t dangle that carrot in front of their family members. They’re angry, and they’re bitter. And they’re just vengeful and rageful and nasty. And they can’t understand why the staff doesn’t kowtow to them. Like they can’t. Literally there’s no there there. It’s like, they can’t go, Oh, gee, I’m treating the staff like doodoo. No wonder the staff doesn’t like me, right. And like I said, there was this one woman down at the end of the hall, my mom had her little bedroom in this care facility, and the woman had another bedroom down at the end of the hall. And she hated my mother. Why? Because the staff love to come in and talk with my mom, because my mom would listen and give advice and joke with them and be pleasant and you know, tell them what a great job they were doing and treated them like human beings. Hello, you know what I’m saying? So but narcissists, don’t, because they can’t, they don’t see human beings as human beings, we have no more meaning to them than this eraser thing, you know, once it’s used up toss. And that’s what they do. And they do that throughout their lives. And when they collapse, they either do the Oh, and that’s the other thing I want to make you aware of is when they collapse, they can also do the self-harm. So they’ll do suicidal gestures, suicidal ideation. But it’s, how do I explain this, they still can’t imagine the world getting along without them. And they’re doing it to manipulate. They’re doing it to hook you back in and make you feel sorry for them. So be aware of that. They do use that as a manipulation. So collapse narcissists will do whatever they need to get back up on top. And their collapsedness unless they’re in an old age home does not last so realize when they’re seeking when they’re seeking therapy when they’re seeking, you know, to feel better about themselves one to three times maybe a month, and they’re out of there. Seriously, so you cannot count on that. To give them the wakeup call that they need. They just they there is no there there. I’m not kidding you. There is literally no there up there. Like not like zip zero, zilch, nada. They don’t feel emotions the way we do. They don’t process situations. The way healthy people do, I mean, Healthy People would be like, hey, treat people nicely. You know, and they’re more likely to treat you nicely back hopefully, golden rule, you know, or if somebody doesn’t treat you nicely, you avoid them, you know, and they just can’t seem to put it to it. Yeah, so the collapse narcissist goes into the rage, or they go into the pity party one of the two and they will use whatever manipulation they need to to get back up on top and get that narcissistic supply flowing again. So be very aware and very cautious when a narcissist when you’ve left a narcissist, and suddenly they’re telling you they’re in therapy it okay. Missouri, show me state your therapy for an entire year.

Kris Godinez  30:26

Okay, we’ll talk they won’t stay for a year and they’ll lie to you about it. Oh, yeah, I’ve been in therapy roll your, you know, no, they will trust me on that one.

So, anyway, so to recap what we were talking about today. If the adult child is the issue, you have got to draw boundaries, you cannot be held hostage to a terrorist 911. Isn’t that interesting? So we don’t negotiate with terrorists. We don’t. I’m sorry. If they start pulling the whole will. If you don’t do what I want. I’m going to do whatever, Uh, uh.  Fine. You do whatever you think you need to sweetheart, that’s going to ruin this relationship. And we’re done. You know. So even though it’s your own child, and I know a lot of codependent parents are like, but but but it’s my child. Okay. And if you were not related to them, would you let them do this? No, the answer is no. So why are you allowing your child to terrorize you? Why are you allowing your child to ruin the holidays, the birthdays of this, that etc. And it sounds cold it does. And realize when codependence start first start working on that codependency. It feels like we are being harsh and mean, when we say no, but the truth of the matter is, you need to say no. And no is not harsh or mean it is a boundary. And we all need boundaries. And the people who need them the most are disordered people. And you do not allow them to cross your boundary. Even if they are your own adult child, it is a matter of respect for yourself. And showing them this is not going to fly because here’s the deal. I see these parents doing this enabling with these disordered kids when they’re kids. And I’m just like, how do you think this is going to turn out? Nobody else is going to put up with this. Nobody else and the landing for them is going to be really hard. So you know, it’s really important. If you suspect your kid has got a personality disorder, get them into therapy, even though you’re divorcing the ex that is disordered. Make sure it’s in the divorce decree. And you can say oh, it needs to be trauma therapy because the divorce was traumatic. Trauma therapists are not stupid, we kind of figure that stuff out. So you know what I’m saying. So and you want to ask them the right questions of the trauma therapist, and you want to make sure they understand parental alienation. You want to make sure they understand personality disorders, you want to make sure they understand high conflict, divorce, etc., etc.

So on the flip side, talking about the collapse, Narcissists, collapse, narcissists will do a variety of things. But generally the two are either incredibly vengeful, you know, stalking, I’m going to get you raging, etc. or collapsing into a million tears poor me pity party, you know, I need to change, I’m going to work on myself. And so they go find a therapist. And that’s they’re sorry for themselves. They’re not sorry about you. They’re not sorry about what they did. They’re not sorry about any of that. So just be aware of that. And then like I said, you really do see that the collapsed narcissists in the old age homes, and they’re the ones that are just bitter. The somatic ones, they’re bitter, they’re angry, they’re railing at everybody and God and their dog literally, they’re, you know, just nasty, nasty, nasty, or they’re the ones who constantly do the suicidal gesture suicidal ideations in an attempt to manipulate the family members to come, take care of them, visit them, etc., etc., etc. So either way, not healthy. No bueno. Don’t put up with it. And don’t believe it. Don’t, don’t fall for it. consistent behavior is what you’re looking for. If somebody is really interested in working on themselves, they won’t have to be begged to go to therapy. Number one, how many of us out there begged our abuser to go to therapy, please just go to therapy, please just work on yourself, please just, you know, they don’t want to they’re not interested. So healthy people. If there’s a problem, they’ll be like, you know, maybe I should go to talk to somebody about this. What to do that, you know, and then they do and then they start working on themselves. And that’s what a healthy person does. But narcissist, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid because they don’t want to be found out. They’ll only go to therapy when they’re in the collapsed mode. I’ve had one that came to me a couple of times earlier on in my career, and both times it’s when the partner left them and you know, and it was like three times and then boom, they were out as soon as the spotlight It was on them. So, yeah, don’t fall for it and they’ll use it for the Hoover. Okay, let’s dive into the questions. Okay, let me get rid of this. Okay, going over here, okay.

Kris Godinez  35:14

I went no contact with my narcissistic mother over a year ago. I received a note last week asking me what she can do to make up. My gut says she isn’t sincere, your thoughts, please trust your gut. So if you’ve gone no contact with a family member. And they’re narcissistic, like, there’s no question like, you’re like, No, they were abusive. No, they did this. No, they did that. And they’re suddenly doing the, you know, oh, I just I want to make up blah, blah. Again, ask yourself this question. If you were not related to them? Would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly and realize, fear, obligation, guilt, but I’m reaching out, I just want us to work blah, blah. If you really do want to see if it’s sincere or not, okay, fine. I pick the therapist, it’s going to be DBT. And we’re going to have a real come to Jesus meeting, it’s not going to be pretty. So the probably she won’t follow through with it. But I would say trust your gut, what does your gut tell you? Not your head, not your heart? If you were not related to this person, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, and act accordingly, and write out the fear the obligation to guilt, Dear Mom, and you’re going to burn it, you’re not going to send it. Dear Mom, Wow, isn’t this interesting that you’re doing this manipulation of, you know, oh, you know, I don’t know what went wrong. And I just want to be, you know, friends with you, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m not falling for the fear. I’m not feeling falling for the obligation, and I’m not falling for the guilt. Have fun with that. Buh bye. Go pound sand, whatever you need to say trot it out to the barbecue, read it out loud once, burn it, let it go. And like I said, if you really do for some reason, want to see where this goes a DBT therapist Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. And you’re not going to put up with any in the bull, and neither is your therapist. And that’s why you need to interview the therapist thoroughly. Do you understand personality disorders? Do you understand narcissistic personality disorder? Do you understand this? Do you understand that? So if you don’t want to meet then don’t, you know don’t feel guilty about that. It’s like if people wanted their kids around in their old age, how about they not act like a bunch of ass monkeys? There you go. So there is that? Okay, um, all right,

Do narcissistic parents intentionally encourage narcissistic behavior in the child to create a mini me? Yes. And then regret when the child becomes a full blown narcissist that turns on its own parent. I don’t know that they regret it, but they do not like it when their child outshines them or does them or cannot be controlled by them. So narcissists seem to be Oh, okay with kids until the kid develops their own little personality. And then as soon as the kid develops their own little personality boy howdy, the narc turns on them. So, if they groom a kid to be a mini me, and then that kid becomes full blown narcissistic personality disorder and starts abusing them. It’s kind of divine karma. But yeah, they I don’t think they regret it. You know, I think that they’re angry that it didn’t turn out the way they thought they thought that they’d be able to continue to manipulate this child into adulthood. And beyond because remember, they think their God, they really do. They cannot imagine that they don’t have absolute power and absolute control. So yeah, I could see that happening. And yeah, they do turn their kids into Mini-mes. Absolutely.

Kris Godinez  39:12

All right. I love this topic. But what if it’s your cousin who’s the adult kid and their parents don’t want to listen to me about them. There’s nothing you can do guys. There is literally nothing you can do. So, it’s a cousin. And the parents are not willing to listen because they’re not willing to take responsibility they’re not willing to see it. They don’t want to see it. They don’t want to deal with it. They’re dealing with whatever weirdness is going on in their head. There’s nothing you can do. You know, it’s kind of like the Buddhist worry chart. Is there a problem? Well, yeah, there is the cousin has the problem. Can I do anything about it? Well, I’ve gone to the parents and I’ve told them or tried to tell them and they don’t seem to want to hear it. Okay. Let it go. Don’t be around the cousin. Don’t be around the cousin and see Who the flying monkeys are, you know if this cousin is the one causing problems, and the parents are not listening, Um not your problem, not your problem. You also don’t have to attend any family gathering that this cousin is at. Or if you do attend it, you don’t have to play whatever game the cousin is doing. So yeah, there’s very little you can do in that situation. You’ve already done what you can. So there is that.

What do you do when your family collapses together? How do you protect your own obsessive compulsive disorder? While your borderline personality disorder parent is depersonalizing you one day, and putting you on the pedestal the next while you’re still the scapegoat? You’ve got to get out. You got to get out. There’s you can’t I’ve had this question. I answered this. I’m going to answer this question on Wednesday when I do. The video. This question has been asked over and over and over again recently. So, I’m not quite sure why it’s all happening recently. But people have asked over and over again, how to deal with how to mitigate the low level abuse or how to deal with the abuse. If you’re an adult, get the hell out. Seriously, if you’re a kid, get help, find a social worker, call Child Protective Services, do whatever you need to talk to a teacher talk to the school counselor, you know, when you’ve got a family that is disordered and if somebody is intermittent positive rewards, you’re you’re a god, you’re the demon, you’re a god, you’re the demon, you know, that kind of thing. That’s horrible on a kid that already has obsessive compulsive disorder. So, you’re going to want to get help. So, get your own therapist, get out of there, get out of there, that is the best thing you can do, get help if you’re a kid, get an adult to help you, you know, a social worker, a teacher, a school counselor, somebody, if you’re an adult, look at getting out, look at getting out. It’s not worth it. So sometimes I have people go, but but you know, if I leave, I’ll be cut off and I won’t have this inheritance or this money or whatever. It’s not worth it, guys, if you’re not around to enjoy it. I can’t stress this enough abusive households. Almost everybody who comes out of abuse has got some sort of autoimmune issue going on, or some sort of adrenal fatigue going on, or some sort of anxiety disorder going on, or PTSD, CPTSD, because of the abuse. It’s not worth it get out. Seriously. I left home when I was 17. I couldn’t stand it. Couldn’t stand it. So, I supported myself working as a waitress doing catering, whatever I needed to cocktail waitressing. Whatever I needed to do in order to survive to get the hell out and stay the hell out. And was it hard? Yes, 110% was unnecessary. 110%. Because if I stayed in that household, I’m convinced my father would have raped me. And I’m convinced my mother would have continued to not do anything. And it would have been bad for me, I would have ended up dead one way or the other because I was suicidal when I was living in that house. So, if you are in a household that is disordered, chaotic, etc., find somebody to help you get out Adult Protective Services, Child Protective Services, a social worker, a teacher, somebody, a therapist, get with somebody to get out. You cannot stay safe. When you’ve got somebody who is circling the drain and decompensating and blowing up and raging and you know, you’re a god, you’re a demon, you’re a god, you’re a demon you there’s no way to stay safe in that there’s there’s literally no way to stay safe. That’s why I keep saying get out, get out, get out, get out there is no solution. You can’t fix it. You did not break it. You cannot fix it. It is not safe for you physically or emotionally or spiritually or any other level. Get out. Save yourself. That is the best thing you can do.

Kris Godinez  44:15

Okay, there’s a great book that might help you on your way out for dealing with borderline personality disorder, especially when they start collapsing and when they start decompensating and circling the drain and doing the crazy behavior. It’s called Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randy Krieger, it’s Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randy Krieger So, it’s really how to kind of cope with that, but it’s a coping strategy. It’s not a long-term thing. It’s for you to get out. So that’s a good book to read. Okay. Um, okay, where am I? Okay.

My narcissistic mom used to say do it ever you want, because asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission. Meanwhile, she’d never apologize. So where was the forgiveness? She didn’t care. Um, narcissists don’t care, let’s just be completely clear about that. They don’t apologize, they don’t care. The more antisocial they are the more dark triad they are. So dark triad psychopath, antisocial, narcissistic, Machiavellian, control freak, the more they are on that dark triad end of the spectrum, the less they think they need to apologize, because the rules don’t apply to them. They’re special. The rules don’t apply to them. Why should I apologize? rules don’t apply. You know, and they think they’re special. They think that they’ve somehow got a hall pass, and they can do whatever they want. And nobody’s going to call them out. They won’t have any consequences, etc., etc. So that’s kind of that magical thinking that they have. So yeah, they don’t apologize. And if they do apologize, they’re sorry, they got caught. They’re not sorry that they did whatever they did. They’re sorry, you noticed. So, their apologies are very superficial. I’m sorry but, I’m sorry you, I’m sorry you made me. They’ll flip it around somehow, it’s suddenly all your fault. You know, so they don’t apologize. And they don’t ask forgiveness, because it’s literally they think their doodoo does not stick. They have never done a wrong thing in their life. My dad used to say a very similar thing. And he also used to say something like, you know, I’m never wrong. I’m only temporarily mistaken. What? So yeah, they justify justifying their heinous acts by saying things like that. That’s what they do. So yeah, you’ll never get a real apology out of them. And there is no forgiveness because they don’t have empathy.

Okay, um, my family members tend to tell me I miss remember traumatic events and times from my childhood. And that I overdramatize events, but the feelings for me are very intense red flag. Yes, absolutely. Here’s the deal. Abusers don’t get to tell you that you’re not hurt. Let me say that again. Abusers don’t get to tell you that you’re not hurt. Perception is everything. If your perception was that it was traumatic, then guess what? It was traumatic. And in remembering or telling those stories, I think you’re looking for validation. The abuser is never going to validate the target ever. They’re never going to admit to their misdeeds ever, like ever watch House of hammer that’s going to bring that home pretty clearly. So um, yeah, it’s they will never validate your pain ever. They will never apologize ever. They will never take responsibility for what they are, what they what they did or what they could have prevented ever, like ever. So, I think the thing is to get with a really good trauma therapist start working CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker. Write it out, write a journal out that safe someplace safe. Write your story out. And abusers don’t get to tell you they didn’t hurt you. But they will say oh I that never happened gaslighting, you’re misremembering it you’re remembering it wrong. gaslighting rewriting history. Yeah, those are all red flags. So, get with a good trauma therapist. If you’re living with them. Get out. Get out, save yourself. Write out your story. This is what happened to me. That’s why I wrote my first book. What’s wrong with your dad? available on Kindle and on Amazon. But that’s why I wrote it is because I was like this happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened. This happened.

Kris Godinez  49:04

Oh, crap. It’s like, yeah, this did happen. So yeah. Because the disordered family members will be like, well, that never happened. Well, you’re remembering it wrong. Because an abuser is never going to validate your pain. They’re never going to validate that. Yeah, you’re remembering this right? Yeah, that was traumatic. Yeah, that did happen. Perception is everything if that is what you are perceiving the manager perception and they don’t get to tell you otherwise. Get with a good trauma therapist. Get with a good trauma therapist. Write it down in a safe place. If you don’t have a safe place. Don’t write it down until you’re in a safe place. But start writing it down journal. Get it out of your head, get it onto paper stop looking for validation from the people who hurt you. You’re never going to get it. So, there is that? Okay.

Oh, my sibling is mentally challenged, and my mom uses them as a flying monkey. What can I do? You’re going to have to stop telling them things seriously. So, flying monkeys especially siblings they’re used as spies, they are there, you know, find out everything, you can gather all the information, you can come back and report back to me. There’s no boundaries, there’s no boundaries. And if you’re dealing with a sibling who’s got mental issues, then it’s you know, boundaries are kind of this weird thing that they don’t understand. And the mom is enforcing the no boundaries. And you know, you’re, you’re the sibling, so you feel like you can talk to them, but then they run back, and they tell them everything, you’re going to have to just not tell them anything. And if they’re being used as a flying monkey, you stop hanging around them. And that’s really hard, really hard, because you love them, and you want to have a relationship with them. But as long as they’re a flying monkey, you can’t, it’s not safe. So, and again, if you’re out of the situation, and the other person is an adult, you know, you could tell them, it’s like, Hey, I don’t want this going back to mom. And if it does, then our relationship is over. You know, if there’s still a child and they’re under the care of that person, you’re going to have to be a little more careful, because they’re having to rely on them for food, shelter, etc.

So okay, um, my mom is trying to turn my kids her grandchildren against me. I feel guilty cutting her off from the kids. No, don’t feel guilty. Because everyone keeps telling me that kids need their grandmother. No, they don’t. Okay, for the love of God and all its holy. If a person is disordered, why in the hell would you want your children around them? Seriously, why don’t you want to be around them? You wouldn’t? It drives me crazy. When I hear these absolute flying monkey Jack wagons don’t know they’re a hole from a hole in the ground. Tell the target of abuse. Oh, but the children need their dad or their mom or their grandparents. Who were all abusive. No, the children do not need an abusive parent, grandparent, whatever in their lives. Absolutely not. And anybody who sits there and says, Oh, but they need to know they don’t know they don’t. If this grandparent is playing games and trying to turn your kids against you. Be Done. Be Done. Don’t put up with if you are not related to this person, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. Kids need healthy grandparents, healthy parents, healthy siblings, healthy family members, not disordered ones, not abusive ones. If they’re disordered and abusive, hell no. Hail to the know. And anybody who tries to guilt trip you with that is a flying monkey. Beware of flying monkeys are one or two things. So, you can either educate them and say, Look, are you aware that it is more damaging to have an abuser in their lives than have them completely gone from their lives? Are you aware of that? Have you read the studies? And let me give you these studies? Let me give you this. Let me give you Psychology Today. Let me give you that data. Right. And if after that, they’re still trying to pull that stuff. They have now shown you who they are. They are a minor narcissist themselves. They’re aligning with the major narcissist. Be done? They’re looking for drama. They’re enjoying the drama, they’re keeping the drama going. Don’t fall for it. Okay. Let’s see.

Kris Godinez  53:32

I went no contact with my parents two years ago, and recently have started dreaming about them, should I contact them? No. If you went no contact, it was for a reason. So, what you’re going to want to do is you’re going to write and write down all of the reasons why you went no contact. When we dream about an abuser. It’s not a sign from God that you need to contact them… could possibly be assigned from Satan. But also, in all seriousness, it is not a sign from God. It is not our brains will dream about things or people that were important to us at one time trying to reconcile why they’re not there anymore. It’s called a drug dream. Okay, in alcoholism and drug addiction, people will dream about their drug of choice when they’ve been clean and sober for you know, 25 years. It’ll happen out of the blue. Why? A stressor happened in life. You were thinking about them earlier in the day, your brain is still trying to figure out why that thing or that person is no longer in your life. It’ll happen, but it is not a sign to contact them. So, what you want to do is get with a good trauma therapist. Absolutely. I cannot stress that enough. It’s like yes, the books do so much. Yes, this this broadcast can do so much. But it’s good to work with your own trauma therapist. Why did you cut them off in the first place? What was occurring? What was how happening, what makes you think anything is going to be any different? And are you aware that when the target of abuse goes back, the love bombing gets shorter and shorter and shorter, and the nastiness gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So, you really want to take a look at what Inner Child Workbook Catherine Taylor, Inner Child Workbook, Luccia Cappacchione what’s driving you? What’s that? What? Is that the inner child is that the inner child that’s not been loved and comforted and healed? Going? Oh, I dreamed about them, I have to contact them. Wait a minute, why did you go no contact in the first place? If they were abusive? Why would you go back? So, get with a good trauma therapist, do not contact them until you have done so or do not contact them until you’ve written out what they’ve done to you and why you went no contact in the first place. And then revisit. Okay. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, make sure it’s for the right reasons, and not because the inner child is driving you to do so.

Okay, um, all right, one last question. And then we will call it a day. So, somebody was asking me about avoidant personality disorder. So avoidant personality disorder is where they avoid things, if they’re not assured success, it’s something they avoid it, they just they avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. And it’s, it’s a cluster, c cluster. C, I think, yeah, it’s a cluster C, I think it’s in with OCD. So, it’s, they avoid, they avoid situations where they’re not assured success, they avoid situations where they might not do it perfectly, they avoid things that you know, might bring them embarrassment, or whatever. So, they there’s rules start getting very, very small. And generally, it’s because they don’t want to be made fun of, they don’t want to fail, they don’t want to be humiliated, etc., etc., etc. So, they just avoid and it makes their world incredibly small. So again, if this is a situation that you are dealing with, please get with a good therapist, is it based in trauma? It can be, it’s an anxiety thing. So, get with a good therapist. There’s some good books on anxiety out there, and my brain is doing a complete blank right now. But you know, get with a good therapist get with a good trauma therapist work on that it can be overcome, it absolutely can be. But it’s the mistaken thoughts, mistaken beliefs, it’s like, oh, if I do this, it’s catastrophic. If I don’t do it perfectly, or if I, you know, I can’t do this, because I’m not going to be, you know, I’ll be made fun of or whatever it is, like, in reality, nobody’s looking at you. Nobody is judging you. The only person judging you is either your abuser in your head, or you. So get with a good threat therapist, trauma therapist, or a good therapist to start working on that avoidance because it’s making your world incredibly tiny and the world is big and beautiful. And there’s a lot more good people than there are bad so it’s important to start opening your world up and work on you and love you and self-esteem like nobody’s business mirror work. Hi, good to see you have a great day. It’s okay to try new things. It’s okay to do things. It’s okay to try things I’m scared of. It’s okay to fill in the blank but do get with a good therapist. So, all right, my loves that is that you guys have a great week and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Kris Godinez  58:30

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 09-11-2022 Adult Kid Drama and Collapse appeared first on Kris Godinez.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Kris Godinez  01:01

Okay, so today, I wanted to again start with a current event thing and kind of talk about some current events. Hey, guys, so two women have gone missing recently that have made the news I’m sure there are more than just two women missing but two women in particular I wanted to talk about briefly before we dive into kids and family trauma and family drama. So the first one is Irene, and I’m probably going to say her name wrong Gakwa, Irene Gakwa was last seen in Gillette, Wyoming. The person of interest in this case is Nathan Hightman. Now, it’s suspicious because she has not been heard from since February. And this Nathan Heitmann has now got charges against him for fraudulently using her bank account, credit cards and one of the purchases made was boots and a shovel. So that’s not looking good. Family members have not heard from her since February. They’re desperate. They are in Kenya, they are wanting answers. So if anyone knows anything about this, please contact the Gillette Wyoming police department. It just… and she met them on Craigslist. She met him on Craigslist, and it was showing all of the signs of possible abuse. So, it’s just really scary to me.

Craigslist, internet dating. They’re not safe, guys. This is where the psychopaths live. That is seriously where the psychopaths will go to hunt. That is their hunting ground. So um, yeah, if you really, really be careful if you decide to start dating online, because this is their hunting ground. And of course, he went after somebody who didn’t have a firm grasp of the culture or the language or, you know, things like that. And yeah, so there’s that one.

(Unfortunattely, Eliza Fletcher was found dead two days after this recording) The other one is, let me get over here is Eliza Fletcher, she was the Memphis teacher that was kidnapped by Cleotha Abston. So, they have him in custody, but no sign of her. And that’s never a good sign. So, if anybody knows anything, please contact the authorities because the families are just in absolute agony right now. I can’t, I can’t even imagine what it would be like to lose a family member to a predator and not know where they are or if they’re alive, or if they’re okay, so if anybody knows anything, please spread the word about those two missing women. Let’s see if we can get some information to the police departments and find them that would be great. And again, this was a kidnapping off the street.

So, the only people on the face of the planet that feel entitled to taking somebody is, are narcissists and psychopaths, dark triads, because they view us as objects like anybody as objects, not just women, they view men as objects, and that’s what they do. So, we need to find these two women and bring them home. So there that is so um, and I want to be very clear, psychopaths can be females, as well.

And if you were on my facebook page, I shared a story staying here in San Diego, out at the pool rescuing bees because bees fly into the pool. And so then I’d go and I’d rescue them and this woman came into the pool area and I said, oh, hey, be careful. You know, I’m rescuing bees and they’re on my shoes. So just you know, don’t step on them. So, what does she do? She kicks my shoes and smashes them on purpose. On purpose. She doesn’t know me from Adam. I don’t, I don’t live in San Diego. I don’t know these people. So, it just gleeful you know, on purpose smashed them like intentionally and I’m just like they weren’t hurting you, they were on my shoes. First of all, why do you feel the need to touch my property? Second of all, she intentionally squished the bees. And I’m just like, that’s a female psychopath right there. So, no compassion, no empathy, no nothing. So they are among us guys. Remember, it’s about 35 to 45% of the population is disordered. So you’ve got to be careful. I’m not saying you need to be paranoid, I’m not saying you need to, you know, never go out or anything like that. But just be aware, they are out there. And they’re looking for fights, or they’re looking for prey, or they’re looking for whatever. So just be aware.

Alright. Now that I’ve got that out of the way, let’s dive into today’s topic. Okay, so today’s topic is kids, adult kids and family drama. So, we’re kind of bringing this up, because we’re coming into the holiday season, yay. And unfortunately, if there are disordered family members, there’s going to be drama, because narcissists, malignant borderlines malignant narcissists need drama and chaos, like the rest of us need oxygen seriously, because they cannot stand the idea of it being calm, and cool, and fun, and happy, you know, they’ve got to ruin it, they’ve got to create chaos, they’ve got to create anger. Those are the only things that they’re happy with, is anger and chaos. Anger is, the only emotion they get. Anger is the only emotion they get. Because that’s the only emotion they allow themselves to feel because it’s part of the fight flight freeze or fawn syndrome.

Kris Godinez  06:39

So anyway, so we’re coming into the holiday season. And when we’ve got adult kids, and somebody starts drama, and I don’t care who they are, I don’t care if it’s the other parent, I don’t care if it’s grandma, grandpa, cousins, whatever. It’s really important to guide your kids through this. Now, this is also why I talk about when you’re leaving an abusive relationship, too. If you’ve got children, get them into therapy, get them into trauma therapy, and if you need to, you simply tell the opposing parent, that’s the problem, that you’re getting him into trauma therapy to help them cope with the divorce. Okay, that usually is not threatening enough for them to stop them from getting therapy. However, if they’re really crazy. If they’re really a dark triad. Yeah, they’ll stop them from trying to get therapy because they don’t want to be exposed. They don’t want their secrets known. They don’t want whatever. So, or they’ll view the therapy as Oh, goody, goody, I’ll go in and talk to the therapist and smear you to them, etc. So which is why you’ve really got to find a good trauma therapist that understands high conflict divorces and get the kids in so that they’ve got a safe place to vent about what’s going on.

So let’s go forward. So okay, let’s say the kids didn’t get therapy, they couldn’t get there. Maybe the opposing partner or the oppose, the ex just wouldn’t allow it right? Or they would interfere with it, or they would whatever. So, again, with children, age-appropriate discussions, now, you never want to bad mouth, the disordered parents ever, because remember, there are 50% them but, you can call out behavior. That’s not normal behavior. That’s not how healthy adults behave. You know, I mean, and you can do it that way without coming straight out and going, look, your mom or your dad is a complete psychopath. You know, you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to do that. But you can call out behavior as they get older, age appropriate. Discussions about is this behavior normal? Is this behavior, how adults healthy adults behave?

You know, once they are adults, even though they’re 18 they’re still kids, guys, because the brain does not stop developing until age…. I think it’s late 20s 28/29 around in there. So, what I often hear… my dad did this, he was such a mother Clucker seriously. So as every kid turned 18, he would threaten to, you know, kick them out of the house, cut them off, you know, not guide them, not direct them, not help them not, you know, nothing he wanted, he wanted us gone he considered us a burden. So, you want to set your kid up for success. And just because they’ve suddenly turned 18 does not mean that they are now suddenly able to go out and make six figures and afford a house. But narcissists act like they should be, you know, psychopaths act like this. it’d be because to them, any amount of money spent on an adult child now is taking out of their fun money, etc. Except that they’ll never actually do anything with that fun money because it’s all about he who dies with the most toys wins.

So anyway, the thing of it is, is that you have to treat them age appropriate no matter what the drama is, no matter where in the family that drama is coming from. So even though they’re 18, and they’re technically adults, again, where are they emotionally, and that’s how you want to talk to them about the drama. And that’s how you want to guide them with the drama. Again, you do not want to be bad mouthing, because here’s something else that happens in families is like drama gets going, mom or dad, you know, tells the adult kid I can’t stand cousin Bertha, bla, bla, bla, bla, and then the kid runs to that side of the family and tells them everything that’s going on. So you want to be very careful how you say things, how you present things. And, for example, let’s say that you just call it out. It’s like, look, cousin Bertha does not behave in a way that is acceptable.

Kris Godinez  11:15

This is drama. I’m not going to play. If you want to get involved, that’s up to you. But let me tell you the consequences, if you do you know. So let’s say that cousin Bertha has started drama over Christmas. That’s a typical one. So cousin Bertha is, you know, wanting to invite the ex to Christmas, right? So hey, you’re welcome to go, I’m not going to go, but you’re welcome to go. And you know, or not, if you don’t want to, and then you go through all of the fears. Because a lot of times what comes up for kids is if the ex is involved and the fear is, is if they don’t go, then the ex is going to punish them. And it’s talking, it’s, again, you’re an adult, you don’t have to put up with that behavior. You don’t have to sit there and listen to abuse, you know, because by the time they’re 18, they can understand a little bit deeper and a little more. And also when they turn 18 You can start going Hey, have you read this book called The object of my affection is in my reflection coping with a narcissist by Rokelle Lerner might help. You know, and a lot of times when kids do read that stuff, they suddenly go, oh, shoot, that’s what I’ve been dealing with. Oh, my God. And that opens the dialog to start talking. So but sometimes not. Because remember abusers are what’s the word I’m looking for? Bastards. But they poison the children against the opposing parent. And that’s why I’m saying you got to nip that stuff early. By the time they’re adults, those thinking patterns are pretty set. And you could offer them to go to therapy with you like family counseling with a good trauma therapist that understands parental alienation. So, when you’re guiding your kids, or if they come to you and say, Hey, I’d like to repair our relationship, jump on it, find a good therapist, get that going, because you don’t want the ex to then step in and continue to roil the pot and take that opportunity away from you.

So, when trauma or drama, that too, when drama comes up in families and the kids are trying to navigate it. Help them with boundaries, that is going to be empower them with boundaries, empower them with the word no. So, a lot of kids are afraid to say no, a lot of adults are afraid to say no, why? Because we’ve seen what happens when we say no to crazy. And what does crazy do when we say no. Hey, how dare you? No, no, no, you can’t say no to me, you know, and then they try to punish or whatever. And you kind of guide them by walking them through it. Look, no is a respect boundary word. It is a respect boundary word. If someone in this family does not respect your no, they don’t respect you. Period. So be careful. You know, you teach them that. It’s like you don’t have to do whatever drama is going on. You don’t have to be involved in it. Will it piss them off? Oh, hell yes. I can’t tell you the number of times that adult kids have made the choice to be like, nope, stepping out of this circle. This is your guy’s problem. Not my poop not my coop. You guys get to deal with this. Right? So and then they get pissed because you’re not playing. So you kind of warn the kids it’s like look, you have a right to say no, here’s what’s going to happen, you know, they’re going to be angry at you now because you’ve said no, but here’s the thing. They’re showing you who they are. And they’re showing you that they do not respect the word no, which means they don’t respect you. Because people who love you respect you. And if they respect you, they respect the wall of No.

Kris Godinez  15:22

No is a safe word, literally, it’s a safe word. It’s like, No, I’m not going to engage in that. No, I’m not going to play that game. No, I’m not going to play triangulation of communication. So in these dysfunctional families, where especially around the holidays, they love to create this, just insane. Drama, right? There’s a lot of communication triangulation going on. So Aunt Bertha will come to you and say, well, your cousin Tony said, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So they’re doing triangulation of communication. And nine times out of 10, whatever  Bertha is telling you is either a bald faced lie, or she’s only giving part of the communication or she’s putting her spin on the communication. So in talking to your adult kids always teach them about triangulation of communication. The second somebody comes to you and says so and so said such and such. Great. Where’s the phone? Let’s get them on the phone right. Now. Let’s clear this up. Watch them backpedal. I’m not even kidding you. They’re going to be Oh, no, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, you know. So anytime somebody says that somebody else said something? What? Great, let’s get him on the phone. Let’s clear that up right now. Oh, look, they’re on speaker. Watch that person freak out. So that’s the thing. It’s like you never disordered families groom. All of the generations, this is generational. This is generational trauma right here. Because I’ve seen it 100,000 million times. They groom all of the generations to do this weird communication, where they talk about each other, in front of each other, and expect the person they’re talking about to act as if they’re not being talked about. Or they train them that this triangulation of communication is somehow normal. Well, it may be normal in this extremely dysfunctional family. But it is not normal and healthy families. And that’s what you teach the adult kids this triangulation is not normal. This is not how healthy adults communicate.

Kris Godinez  17:50

This drama over here is not how Healthy Families handle Christmases, or Thanksgiving,

or Halloween, or, you know, any of the holidays. So, you start pointing out the incongruence. It’s okay, well, they’re doing this, but this is what’s normal. Well, they’re doing this. But this is what’s normal. Do you see where I’m going with that? Or this is what’s healthy? Right? It’s, by old mentor John Nixon would get so mad at me for always saying normies like, use the word healthy instead! I’m like, I know. But yeah, so it’s the same thing healthy, normal. It’s like, healthy and normal is over here. What they’re doing is way over here. There’s an incongruency here. Does that make sense?

So, kids will often feel even adult kids will often feel disloyal, and that they need to side somehow with grandma or whatever. And remember, you’re still dealing with what’s the word, I’m looking for that ego defense, the siding with the abuser siding with the aggressor. So, there’s still that inner child stuff going on, which is why it is so important to help them start either getting therapy, working on inner child working on PTSD, do you see where I’m going with that? So, they need to start working on this stuff because the part of them that is fearful and is engaging in the drama is the child because the child is trying to fix it, especially if there was a lot of codependency going on. And a lot of well no it is your problem like so remember, they project they love to project onto the kids well no what is your problem. Well no you need to come to Christmas because you’re the barrier between me and so and so. They do that I just Oh my god, kids get all of these jobs that are not their job. So if they’re being forced to go to a family function, because some family member needs them to be the barrier between them and the abuser. Not my job, not my poop, not my coop. Mother clicker. I’m not doing it. Y’all clean that mess up yourself.

You know, so it’s really a matter of talking to them. And remember, the adult child who’s had to deal with the abuser, if they have not gotten therapy is still dealing with all of the inner child stuff, all of the fear all of the, you know, grooming, the messages, the, you know, the whole thing, and they’re dealing with that inner critic. So that’s why it’s really important to start talking to them about go get a therapist, go get a trauma therapist to help you stand your ground. Because that’s what these people do is they keep pushing at the boundaries. They’re like, the little kid in the market, you know, when you tell a kid no, when they want candy. No, I’m sorry, we’re not going to do that this time. But why, but why, but why I’m going to throw a fit and da, da, da, da, da. And I have so much respect for the parents that go, Okay, we’re done. We’ll, we’ll go shopping some other time. And even though it’s an inconvenience for the parent, they show the kid through actions, this behavior is not going to fly. And then the kid learns very quickly. Oh, I didn’t get my way. Oh, and now I have to go home. Oh, do you see where I’m going with that? So it’s the same thing with these abusive jack wagons is that you have to stand your ground, say no and mean it and be a broken record. No, is a complete sentence, respect it. R-E-S-P-E-C-T Find out what it means to me, Mother Clucker! Do you see where I’m going with that?

So and if they don’t respect it, and if they keep trying to, but why, but why, but why, but why? That’s when you end the conversation. And adult kids, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, in these dysfunctional families still feel like they’re the little kid. And so they feel like they can’t stand up to the quote unquote, adults. empower them. It’s okay for you to say no, it’s okay for you to tell this family member. No, it’s okay for you to hang up on them. It’s okay for you to not have to go over there and be the protector or the buffer or the comedian or whatever job it is they’re trying to slough off on to you. That’s not your job. If you want to go over and see your cousins and have fun with them and play football, that’s great. But don’t get involved with this stuff. Because it’s not your problem.

Kris Godinez  22:28

It’s not your problem. And like I said, oftentimes adult kids of abusive families or disordered families, still, even in their 30s and 40s. feel like they are still a child if they have not worked on the inner child stuff. So, when they’re confronted with an adult, a grandparent, a parent, etc., or an older cousin or whatever, that tendency to do the people pleasing and cave and make them happy, pops up. So really, it is a matter of introducing your kids as soon as you can to the books soon as they turn 18 There is nothing the opposing parent can do. Literally nothing. I mean, they can badmouth you until the cows come home and, and Dwayne Robert has a whole series of videos on parental alienation, which I really, really recommend. Um, but once the kids turn 18 You can start having real talks with them Don’t badmouth the other parent but you can go this behavior not healthy, this behavior healthy you know, and encourage them to read the books encourage them to watch the videos encourage them to educate themselves about what’s been going on. So the books that I would recommend for some a kid who’s an adult for dealing with all of these people who have so many okay hold on the Disease to Please by Harriet Breaker. So that’s about the people pleasing, CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. The Radical Forgiveness by Collin Tipping, Radical Self Forgiveness. also by Collin Tipping you know, the Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, the Inner Child Workbook, Lucia Cappacchione are Catherine Taylor, either one of those. So, it’s working on all of that stuff. And that’s why I’m saying don’t wait until they’re an adult, you can start working with them on self-esteem when they’re little. You can start working with them on boundaries when they’re little. You can start even working with them on healthy behavior versus unhealthy behavior when they’re little. You just got to be careful and not call names not do the psychological thing. Oh, you’re you know, my ex is a narcissist, stop, no, stop. Look, we broke up because weren’t working. And healthy people work together. That’s all you got to say. You know, you don’t have to go into great detail, and it needs to be age appropriate.

So, the other thing that disordered families will do is when a child stands up and says no, no, I’m not going to do that. They all then go on the smear campaign. And so then it’s like, it’s like a game of telephone. So then now grandma or Aunt Bertha, or whoever’s pissed off at the adult kid is now smearing the kid everybody else in the family. And so it’s like a, what’s the word I’m looking for? And then pretty soon the kid will get the flying monkeys calling. So, you’re going to have to explain to them what’s going on. It’s like, look, you’re going to say, no, they’re not going to like it, they’re going to rally the troops, and you’re probably going to get phone calls from other family members, and you’re going to have to stand your ground. So, you’re going to have to kind of like, let them know what’s going to happen so, they’re not blinded by it, you know, blindsided by it. So that again, it’s like, single narcissists, romantic narcissists, family narcissists, they all act the same exact way. It’s like, there’s a damn playbook seriously. So, they will gang up on the kid, they will use the guilt stuff and you again, you teach the adult children, you do not need to be guilt tripped. If somebody is guilt tripping you remember, fog, fear, obligation, that’s what they’re dealing in. And guilt, especially the obligation and the guilt. The fear is kind of there too. But fear, obligation, guilt, if they’re making you feel fearful, that you’re going to be excommunicated. If they’re making you feel obligated. Well, you have to, I’m your grandmother, I’m your grandfather, I’m the whatever head of the family, blah, blah, you have to obligated, you owe me, you owe me that’s obligation you owe me. I don’t owe, Jack. All I got to do is pay taxes and die. You know what I’m saying? But that’s what they do. They make you feel obligated or guilty? You don’t love me? Why aren’t you know, the covert narcissist, it’s like, I do everything for this family, and you won’t even come to this particular party to protect me. Oh, please.

Kris Godinez  27:11

You know, so if they’re doing any of that, you got to explain to the adult kids what this whole thing is. That’s why I’m saying, I really firmly believe that a family trauma family therapist would be really good, so that you guys can get a communication going. So, you get everybody on Common Ground. When I say everybody, I mean you and your kids, you know what I’m saying so that you understand what is going on here and help the kids you know, share your own stories. You know, this is how I stood up to Aunt Bertha. This is how I stood up to your grandmother, this is how I stood up to your grandfather, this is how I stood, you know, and help them and show them and give them tools.

That’s really what this is all about everything you guys are learning in here. You can give to your kids age appropriate and show them how to use those tools. That’s really what it’s all about is you want to learn how to use the tools yourself, go out and practice, then pass those healthy tools on to the kids age appropriate. Show them how to use it, help them and guide them when there’s pushback from the abusers or from the disordered family. And, you know, give them a way to express themselves. You know, encourage them to talk, encourage them to go to therapy, encourage them to journal. It’s amazing. It’s so funny to me, where I will tell my clients, it’s like, okay, journaling is going to help you like I don’t see how that can help. I know you don’t see how it can help right now. But trust me, I want you to start journaling, I want you to have a voice, I want you to get it out. If you want to… you can bring it into session and we can go through it, or you can trot it out to the barbecue and burn it your choice. And then a couple of weeks later, they’ll come back in, and they’ll be like, I really liked journaling. Wow, I was finally able to tell Aunt Bertha that she could go push herself off a cliff. Oh, great. Okay, good. So, there’s some anger about Aunt Bertha, let’s go into that… you see where I’m going with that. So, it’s really important to pass on all of the little tricks of the trade that I have been giving to you guys, you know, journaling, writing and burning letters, getting support, getting support, you know, get it get friends, family that are healthy and trustworthy. It’s like, you don’t have to put up with this. You don’t, you don’t, you don’t have to put up with this just because they’re family. And here’s the big question. I asked everybody. If you were not related to these Jack wagons, would you have anything to do with them? And the answer is probably going to be no. If so, act accordingly. You don’t owe any body an explanation. Like I said, No. is a complete sentence and I’ve had to tell people that no is a complete sentence you need to stop and if they don’t stop, okay, they’re showing me who they are. They’re using manipulation. They’re using guilt and fear. They’re using obligation, whatever. Time to let them go. Time to let them go. Bye bye. Bye, bye now go pound sand. Bye bye, bye bye. Now we’re done. You know, seriously, you don’t owe anybody anything. And I hate how families do this. Oh, well, oh, what we’re your family as if that means something when they’ve been abusive. They’ve been derogatory. They’ve been, you know, hateful they’ve been… I wish I could swear because I have some choice words for people like that. So, you know what I’m saying? It’s…. If you were not related to them? Would you put up with that behavior from a stranger? If the answer is no, then don’t put up with it. Oh, so anyway, there that is. So adult kids and family drama sometimes. And I swear, I’ll get to the questions in just a second one last thought. Sometimes what abusers will do is they will drag the adult kids into the drama in order to get to you.

Kris Godinez  31:05

So, it’s a hostage situation. So don’t play. Don’t play. You know, if they’re dragging the kids in, you let them know what you’re seeing, nope, they’re doing this to get to me, I’m not going to play. You don’t need to play either. Say no and be done. And then, you know, stay out of it. So just realize disordered people. And here’s something else to think about. If somebody is always pulling drama around holidays, that’s narcissistic behavior. narcissists, ruin, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, births, weddings, deaths. If they can ruin it, they will, because it’s puts the attention back on them, you know, and it makes them feel powerful. So, you know, if they’re doing this crap, you can walk away, it’s okay, give yourself permission. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what, I give you permission to walk away from your family. It’s okay. Seriously, that’s going to be your morning mantra. If you’re dealing with this kind of family. That’s all drama, and all chaos. The other thing you need to realize too, is people that create drama and chaos, the more they are really, really, really causing drama and causing chaos for other people. The more chaotic they are on the inside, and it’s because they need to stay outside focus. They don’t want to focus in on what they’re thinking and feeling here. They want to stay outside focused. They don’t want to deal with their own emotions. So, they would rather create a fire over here and put all of their attention over there, man, the absolute Inferno that’s going on inside of them. So, there it is. All right, let’s dive into the questions, shall we? Okay.

Ah, is it common for one adult to be excluded from family gatherings? Yeah, if they’re a scapegoat, you bet. I was told not to come with Christmas, as my abusive half-sister would be there. And that meant I was not welcome if she was there. Well, again, when people side, when flying monkeys side with the abuser, they are showing you who they are. Believe them the first time. Honestly, they did you a favor, if they’re siding with somebody who was abusive to you, and they’re saying, Oh, they’re welcome. But you’re not. um Houston, there’s a problem. So family is not always blood. Family is not always blood. You know, sometimes, people who are not even related to us can be more of a good family than blood related family can be. So um, yeah, that it’s how do I explain this? In disordered families generational okay, we’re talking generational trauma, if nothing has been worked on, and there is a child who is disordered and abusive, again, they will ego defense, side with the abuser because they’re afraid doesn’t make it right. But that’s what they do. So, again, they’re showing you who they are. If they’re not getting help for this, if they’re not working on this, if they’re siding with somebody who was abusive to you. Bye bye now go pound sand, I’d be done right and burn and angry letter be done. So yeah, they will do that. And they do side with it’s just like little kids who side with the abusive parent. They’re afraid of getting killed on some level and it’s usually an inner child issue. And if there’s been no work on working on the inner child working on self-esteem, working on boundaries, working on no, working on whatever, then they’re going to do knee jerk reactions. They’re going to side with the abuser So stay away, stay away and do not take it personally, this speaks volumes about them. Nothing about you. So, remember that.

Okay, um, can you still be empathic and not listen to people’s drama? Yeah. Many times, if you don’t play the drama game, you’re told you have no empathy. Well, yeah, because you’re not buying into their stuff. So oftentimes, when I am working with clients that come from heavily disordered families, they get stuck in their story. And that’s what the drama is, it’s being stuck in your story. So, they’ll come in, and they’ll, you know, roar and this, that drama, blah, you know, the whole thing.

Kris Godinez  35:49

And I’ll go, okay, got it. And, and then they get past, because I’m not getting as upset as they are. And I finally had to tell them, it’s like you’ve told this story three times. Now? Why are you stuck in your story? How has this story become who you are? Because the story is not who you are. But you’re telling it so many times that it’s now become who you are. So, need to separate that out. Do you see where I’m going with that? So yeah, you can absolutely be empathic and still not participate in the drama. So, it’s finding what the real issue is. So, what is the real issue? What does this story mean to you? What does this drama mean to you? Why are you allowing this drama to run your life? Start asking questions like that, and either one of two things will happen, they will have an absolute fit and get very angry at you. Or they’ll stop. And they’ll be like, oh, and that’s what I go, uh, huh? See where I’m going with that. So yeah, you can be empathic you can, the thing of it is, is that people who get stuck in their stories are in pain, they are suffering, if you want to get into the Buddhist philosophy of it, they are suffering. And so they have an identity that explains the suffering, as opposed to, I don’t need to be my thoughts. I don’t need to be my family story. I don’t have to buy into the BS that the family said I was.  I don’t have to, I don’t have to, I get to tell my own story. And I get to write my own ending. And it has nothing to do with this family of origin. So yeah, empathy is figuring you know, hearing them, but hearing what’s behind the drama, what’s driving the drama, what’s driving the need to have this extremely dramatic thing going on all the time. And usually, it’s pain. Usually, it’s hurt, usually, it’s trauma. So yes, you can be empathic. But you also have to have boundaries, because if you don’t, they’ll just keep telling the story over and over and over and over and drama and drama and drama and drama. And you kind of have to be like, and what’s your part in this? That’ll tell you everything you need to know, because if they say, you know, screw you roar, roar, and they run off then okay, they’re not willing to deal with their own stuff. Okay, they can find somebody else to listen to their drama. So, do you see where I’m going? Yes, you absolutely can be empathic and still have boundaries. That’s, that is the task of every empathic survivor of abuse or every Empath period, is to have boundaries, and still be empathic.

Kris Godinez  38:47

So, when that woman smashed the bees I think the first, I was angry, but underneath the anger was just sad. Because I was just like, wow, somebody who is that hateful, and that un empathic and that unfeeling and that uncaring. I can’t even imagine how she is with her kids. Or other people. You know, I’m a total stranger. If she did this to me, I can’t imagine how she treats people close to her. So immediately, I was like, Okay, what do I do with these emotions? Because I’m angry, and I’m sad, and I feel bad for the bees. And the little kid in me is like, why did you feel the need to try to hurt me by killing these bees I was saving what what is up with that? You know? So immediately I went to the tonglen, meditation, the metta meditation, which is okay, this woman is suffering. May she have peace. May she have all that she needs food, shelter, companionship, may she have freedom from suffering. May she have peace because when people suffer according to Buddhism, that is when they are sadistic, horrific, hurtful, harmful, hurt people, you know, etc., etc.. And rather than carry her through with me, the entire day wasn’t about to do that punted around in my head, did the tonglen meditation, let it go? And I didn’t think about it again until I did this broadcast, because there was a lesson in there. So, anyway, so it’s doing the tonglen meditation, remembering that her brutal behavior spoke volumes about her nothing about me. She doesn’t even know me. You know, so it’s kind of like, whoa, okay, does disorder disorder, disorder was like a neon sign flashing over her head. So, you know, again, rather than taking it personally just going, Okay, this is her issue. She’s suffering. I wish her peace. I wish her freedom from suffering. I wish her enlightenment so that she no longer harms innocence. So, there that is. So, hope that answered the question. Hold on. Let me get back to make sure I did. Um, yeah, yeah. So, you can have empathy. I mean, I have empathy for but avoid her like the plague. If I see her again, out at the pool. I’ll tell you that much. Oh, anyway, okay.

Um, my narc. Mother is a dry drunk. I’m so sorry. My little brother 21 is still at home. How do I help? He has started acting like her anger manipulating, etc. He won’t listen, that mom’s a narc. Well, there’s very little you can do. If he’s 21, and he’s not listening, it’s, you know, all you could do is maybe hand him some books and go, you might want to read this, might want to read this and nine times out of 10, he’s probably not going to read it. So, all you can do is just be honest and open. And you know, here’s some things that might help. And if he takes you up on the offer, great. If he doesn’t, great, you know what I’m saying? Alright, so yeah, there’s nothing you can do. I mean, it’s like, if he’s not listening, if he refuses to believe that mom’s got issues, all you can do is say, hey, these books helped me. I hope they help you give them to him, will he read them? Maybe, maybe not, you know, so and just, you know, offer, offer to go to therapy with him if he’s ever interested. But, you know, he may or may not take you up on it. So, and it’s hard. It’s hard for kids to acknowledge and recognize that a parent is disordered, it really, truly is. It’s like when I was going through my stuff it right around that age, right around 21 around in there, you know, I’d started separating from the family and really getting that dad was completely cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And mom wasn’t too far behind. And that’s a hard thing to accept, because it’s like, you just need one caring adult that has your back. And unfortunately, in a lot of these situations, there are no hearing adults that have your back. And that’s, that’s a tough thing to accept. So that might be something to discuss if he’s open to it. But if you’re telling me that he’s unwilling to see the behavior, and you know, all you can do again, you point out the incongruence sees there’s this going on, but this is healthy.

Kris Godinez  43:17

You know, so just talk to him and see what happens. And if he doesn’t want to listen, he doesn’t want to listen, he’s not ready. People are only ready to deal with things when they are ready to deal with things. You can’t force it. So, you make suggestions. You can offer a lifeline. Hey, I’m here to talk anytime you want to. Hey, here’s the name of the good therapist, hey, you know that kind of thing. But that’s about as much as you can do. Okay, let’s see.

Um, I have had to reach very deep to find my empathy, I cannot talk, referencing it authentically. Now. Is that a common problem? Well, kind of. Yeah. So, in adult children or in any children of narcissists, a lot of us go numb. A lot of us just, there was just so much pain and so much suffering and so much awfulness. And you kind of cut yourself off, you know what I’m saying? It doesn’t happen to everybody. But it does happen to some people. So, some clients that I have had, have just gone numb, and it’s, it’s really important to not stay numb. It’s like get back to being a human being, find your empathy find the caring in the world find, you know, because it’s like, it’s kind of like the situation that happened at the pool. You know, if I hadn’t worked on myself, I would be like, Screw it. I’m never going back to the pool. Well, no, I’m going back to the pool. There’s plenty of other good people around I’ll just avoid that person, you know. So, it’s finding that empathy, finding that caring, realizing that not everybody in the world is evil, although sometimes it feels that way. And um yeah, we cut ourselves off. And there was an interesting discussion over on Facebook on one of the posts I made, that somebody said that, you know, it’s really funny that children of narcissists seem to be either very, very empathic, or they kind of do the same thing that the parents did. And sometimes there’s a middle ground there, sometimes they’re empathic, but they’ve gone numb, and they just don’t want to care about anybody because they don’t want to get hurt again, is really what it is. So, it’s allowing yourself to be empathic. It’s allowing yourself to feel, it’s drawing extremely strong and healthy boundaries, recognizing when it’s somebody else’s issue, when it’s speaking volumes about them and nothing about you, recognizing what’s yours, what’s theirs, and allowing yourself to feel. You got to feel it to heal it and having empathy separates us from our abusers. Abusers absolutely do not feel empathy, they do not feel guilt, they do not feel remorse, they do not feel anything the way you and I feel them. So, it’s really important to allow the emotions to allow the feelings to allow the empathy, but don’t practice idiot compassion. So, Pema Chodren talks about the difference between having compassion and idiot compassion. So, compassion is kind of like what I did for that woman. It’s like recognizing she’s disordered. Not having anything to do with her doing the tonglen. Metta meditation, may she have peace, may she have freedom from suffering. May she have all that she needs food, shelter, companionship, they should have enlightenment, they should have peace. You know, it’s like, okay, and letting her go, right? Idiot compassion would have been, I need to fix her. I need to I need to confront her. I need to do this. I need to know I don’t need to do anything. It’s a pay taxes of that. So, you know, it’s like, idiot compassion is I need to fix them. I need to have them in my life. So, I can fix them. No, no, no, you can have compassion for somebody at a distance. So, I have compassion for my dad, I do he was a complete jackwagon a total psychopath. A total dark triad, a total borderline a total. I mean, he had so many issues. It wasn’t even funny.

Kris Godinez  47:08

But and, again, suffering, he was suffering. He was a sufferer. He suffered literally, like, literally. And that’s what made him such a mean, nasty son of a moon. You know, and so I can understand why he behaved the way he did, but I’m not going to give him a pass. And at that point in my life, when he finally died, I had moved, like, as far away as I possibly could, I think I was I was in Oregon at the time, he was in California, I was in Oregon. And I told John, I said, I don’t want to be anywhere near my family, I don’t want to have access. I don’t want them to have access to me. I don’t want to be involved in the drama, I want to be far enough away. So that, you know, I can love them from afar. And that’s basically what I did. You know, I knew my dad was disordered. I knew I couldn’t fix them. And sticking around would have only damaged me. And my older sister and I talked about this. And she was like, Oh, hell yeah, get as far away as you can. Because I stuck around thinking I could help mom. And instead, all that did was create drama. And I’m not yeah, now I’m stepping away. So yeah. So yeah, you can love people from afar, you could have compassion for them from afar does not make you a bad person and makes you have good boundaries. So yeah, that’s a boundary. That’s a boundary. So um, yeah. So, it’s, yeah, it can be because Empathy means we care. And when we care, our abusers find what we care about, and then kill it, harm it hurt it, make us suffer. So yeah, that’s why we go numb. And that’s why it’s sometimes hard to kind of find that empathy again. But it’s hugely important to do so because that’s what separates us from the abuser. So yeah, absolutely.

Okay, um, how can we set internal boundaries, around our empathy with people going through terrible events and other parts of the world like stuff in the news, okay. So, I try not to watch the news to be perfectly honest. Remember, if it bleeds, it leads, so they will intentionally put the worst stories out there. I’ll check in with the news literally, maybe once a day, or maybe once every couple of days just to see what’s going on. And if there’s something that I can help with, I will help with. So, for example, whenever I hear about a hoarding situation with dogs, I’ll figure out what the local, you know, humane society or the local rescue, the local that you know what I’m saying the local dog helping place whatever that is Humane Society Rescue etc. And I’ll donate I’ll just donate. I’ll just be like, this is specifically for these dogs that were hoarded. You know, there you go. Or, you know, these cats or you know, whatever. So that makes me feel good. And that’s what I’ll do. I’ll donate to Doctors Without Borders if…. Pakistan, dear Lord, like apparently a third of the country is now underwater because of the monsoon. So yeah, so I’ll donate to Doctor Doctors Without Borders. But I’ll make it a donation I can afford, you know, you don’t want to, you don’t want to kill yourself trying to help other people again, boundaries, boundaries, what can I afford? Okay, I can do that. Okay, I can do that. Okay, I’m done for this month.

Kris Godinez  50:39

You know what I’m saying? So yeah, and you just realize you do what you can. And if you can’t do anything else, you do the metta meditation, or you contact whatever organization that might be doing stuff, see if you can volunteer, you know, that kind of thing. So, but again, the difference between doing what you can and codependency or idiot compassion, is you never ever want to kill yourself over you don’t want to get to the point where you’re broken, you can’t pay rent, you don’t want to get to the point where you’re exhausted, and you can’t go on in a normal life. That’s codependency. That’s where we’re like giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and not replenishing the pot. So yeah, so it’s just kind of like, what can I do? What can I afford, okay, I can’t afford money, but I can do a metta meditation, or I can do whatever. So, where I can volunteer, you know, and help pack boxes, or I can, you know, whatever. So, there’s tons of, there’s, um, if you go on to Google, and you look up volunteer opportunities, at least in Phoenix, there’s a whole list of volunteer opportunities that you can do for different organizations that are helping other parts of the world. So yeah, so do that if you feel called to do that. So again, don’t extend yourself to the point where you’re keeling over where you’re broke. So there that is okay.

And it’s normal to feel awful. That’s why I only watch the news once a day or every other day or whatever, just to get a taste of what’s going on. Because when those stories do come up, it does it does affect us. If you’ve got a heart, if you’re not a complete psychopath, yeah, it’s going to affect you. You’re going to read those stories and have empathy. You’re going to read those stories and go, what can I do? How can I help? How can I? How can we make this better, because it’s driving me crazy. So, it’s true that you do what you can, and you have to let the rest go. And that’s all you can do. So there that is, okay.

Um, how can I deal better with repressed anger? My knee jerk reaction is to yell because I want to be heard. Yeah, that’s normal. It’s really annoying because as soon as I’m calm again, I feel like a whiny child. Okay. So, anger is not a pure emotion. Love is Love, Lust is lust. Happy is happy. Sad is sad. Anger is the bodyguard of the softer emotions, sadness, betrayal, fear, hurt. So, we want to be heard. And that’s an inner child thing. So, when we’re not heard as kids, we tend to be yellers, when we become adults, because we’re tired of not being heard. So, I would again, suggest get with a really good trauma therapist, there’s a great book called There’s a Cow in the Parking Lot. It’s a Buddhist approach to anger management.

So, anger is not the issue. The issue is not being heard. So instead of getting louder and yelling, a more effective way is to get quieter. And I don’t mean quieter, like shutting up. I mean, like, lower your voice. Lower your voice. This is what I’m trying to say. You are not listening to me. Because that forces people to pull in, and it also forces them to listen. So yeah, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever had an adult do the lowering the voice thing when you were a kid, oh that works. So, it’s because you’re not being heard. So if somebody’s not hearing you, instead of yelling, they’re still not going to hear you. It’s kind of like, it’s kind of like, just because you’re getting louder doesn’t mean they’re going to hear you. So people who are dedicated to misunderstanding you are not going to hear you. So, it depends on who your audience is. And this is somebody who truly cares about you. They’ll want to hear you and you won’t have to yell. But if they’re not hearing you, lower your voice and if they’re still not hearing you walk away because the issue is now theirs, not yours. So not being heard is a huge issue with adult survivors of trauma with adult survivors of narcissistic parents. We weren’t heard as kids, we weren’t respected, we weren’t cherished and loved and cared for the way we should have been. Because a lot of narcissists have this very Victorian attitude of, you know, children are to be seen and not heard and in some cases, not even seen. So, um, yeah, get with a good trauma therapist work on that Self-Esteem Workbook, Glenn Schiradi, you have a voice you have worth, and you don’t need to prove it to anybody. Actions speak louder than words, if somebody’s not hearing you, and they’re consistently not hearing you.

Kris Godinez  55:41

Even when you get soft, huh problems with them, not with you. So there is that? Also remember, repressed anger, write it out, write it out, write it out, write it out, burn it. What is this anger really about? What is this incident remind you of? Because sometimes the current event is really triggering a past event. So the anger may not be all about the current event. There may be anger about the past event. So write out your anger about not being heard. Who didn’t hear you? Dear mom, Dear dad, Dear grandparents, Dear teachers, Dear whoever. You didn’t hear me when I was fill in the blank. This is how it made me feel. I feel worthless. I feel unheard I feel unloved I feel you know, not valued, etc., etc., etc. Guess what? I’m taking my power back. If you’re unwilling to hear me, that’s your problem, not mine. Especially when I’ve been very clear. I’m going to therapy now. I’m working on myself. I’m working on self esteem. You don’t get to run me anymore. Have a nice life. And I have a nice life. I mean, go parents and trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, but do get with a good trauma therapist to work on this stuff because it’s impacting your current relationships. So some of it could be the current relationships but it’s triggering stuff from the past. So there is that all right, kids, I’m going to call it for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. Alright, you guys have a great week and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 09-04-2022 Adult Kids and Family Drama appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so much to talk about, I wanted to start every single video with a kind of a public service announcement or at least a current events kind of thing. So for those of you who’ve been around for a while, you know that I lost my good friend, Terry Tucker last year, and I lost her due to medical incompetence. Basically, she had rectal cancer, and they kept telling her Oh, you know, it’s just, you know, you’re going through menopause and this, that, and the other thing. By the time she finally got a second opinion, it had metastasized, and it killed her. So basically, what I want to tell you guys is trust your guts. And this is part of power and control. This is part of what has to do with this theme that we’re going to be talking about today. Abusers love to take our power and control away from us, they love to make us second guess, they love to make us think that we don’t know what we know.

So, remember, narcissists are attracted to positions of power, that means psychiatrists, doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, EMTs, I’m trying to think of who else, attorneys, judges, anything, you know, police officers, anything where there is a position of power. But specifically, I want to remind you guys, you guys know your body better than anybody else, Terry knew something was wrong, right? And she kept going to these doctors, and she trusted them instead of trusting herself. That does not mean that she’s at fault for her death, I firmly plant the blame at the doctors that were Pooh poohing her that were probably narcissistic. So um, so basically, it’s like, if your body is doing something funky trust that! Go find a physician that’s going to listen to you. And I know, we’re in this weird thing where like, you know, physicians are like, you know, what is it? It’s like an assembly line. It’s like, they run you through and they barely talk to you. And they barely explain things, and they barely whatever. No, no, no, no, no, you want to make sure that your doctor is explaining things to you that you understand what tests they’re ordering, and why get the ICD code so that you can call your insurance yourself and make sure it’s covered. Because some of the things that I’ve been hearing is that the doctors will order these tests and not check with the insurance to make sure it’s covered, you go get the test, and then you’re on the hook for 1000s of dollars. I don’t know about you, but I don’t I don’t know very many people have got 1000s dollars, they can blow on medical stuff. So alright, so basically trust your gut. If your doctor is not listening to you, if they’re Pooh poohing you if they’re blowing you off, if they’re, you know, not explaining things, not making sure that you understand why you’re getting this test, or what could possibly be going on, get a different doctor. So it drives me crazy, when and especially I’ll tell you what a good doctor will never be upset that you’re getting a second opinion.

Kris Godinez  04:01

A good therapist will never be upset that you’re getting a second opinion. So, you know, it’s kind of like a good a good professional will want you to make sure you are with the person that you are going to jibe with the best. And they’re going to want to make sure that you are fully educated on what’s going on. So that you’re not sitting here in the dark going well what does this mean? And why am I getting that test and why? You know what is… you know, that kind of thing. So, any doctor that proves you that doesn’t listen to you that doesn’t explain things that doesn’t, you know, whatever, doesn’t talk about side effects. That’s the other thing. If you’re seeing a psychiatrist and you’re getting psych meds, make sure they tell you about the side effects. So here’s one thing that drives me crazy. A lot of times psych meds have off label uses and so Seroquel is one of them and one of the side effects of Seoquel is Tardive dyskinesia. Tardive dyskinesia is the involuntary grimacing or the muscle jerking. And it can be permanent. And they use it for sleep. And I’m just like, Oh, my God, no, with a side of no and an extra helping of what the actual are you thinking? So make sure that if you’re getting medication of any kind, you thoroughly talk it over with your doctor about side effects. And if you get home, and then you look up side effects, and they have not discussed this with you? Fire their hind end, I’m not even kidding. You fire them. If they’re not compassionate, if they don’t listen, if they poopoo you fire them, I wish to God Terry had done that. Because if she had done that, in the beginning, she would still be with us. So basically, this is about taking your power back. And one of the ways that abusers make us relinquish power is they adopt a I know you better than you know, yourself attitude.

Kris Godinez  05:57

So now we’re going to slide into what we’re talking about today, power and control. So one of the ways that oh, and I forgot to say thank you to Susanna Quintana since Susanna is amazing, she did so awesome with the online webinar that we had, and I cannot thank her enough. So if you’re looking for a good life coach, after you’ve left abuse, she is phenomenal because she can walk you through how to deal with the crazy emails and things like that, and how to deal with the ex, once you’ve gone, which is fabulous. And anyway, and she’s just amazing. She has a book called you’re still that girl. So please go read it because it’s awesome.

So anyway, going back to the power and control, one of the things that abusers do is that they try to make us think that they know us better than we know ourselves. And this goes for medical professionals. This goes for psychiatrists, this goes for nurses, doctors, whatever. So, abusers again use what’s the word I’m looking for? They adopt this attitude of I’m over you you’re one down you don’t know yourself, I know you bore more than you know yourself. That is so not true. That is so not true. You know you better than anybody, and what do abusers love to do? They love to tell you absolute lies about who you are. That that is one of their favorite things to do. Well, you’re this and you’re that and you, you, you, you guns and I’ll give you three guesses who they’re really talking about. They are truly talking about themselves. But because of family of origin, if we were raised in a narcissistic family or an abusive family or neglectful family, or alcoholism or drug use or whatever, and we’ve been codependent, we’ve been a caretaker, and we’re looking for those people pleasing things, we will believe them, because we love them. And because, you know, we trust them when we shouldn’t, but we don’t know that yet. So they will say things in the devalue in the discard phase that are just absolutely heinous. And are really about them. Remember, if somebody’s got two fingers pointed out doing the you, you, guns, they got six fingers pointed back at them, they are talking about themselves, they are not talking about you, they are projecting all of their stuff on to you. So basically, when they do the whole, you know, you’re incompetent, you’re awful, you’re that you, you, you know, you’re a bad listener, you’re your bla bla bla bla, you know, the whole thing. They’re talking about themselves, they really truly are, they are not talking about you. And they will say whatever they think they need to, to keep you second guessing yourself. And that is why you’ve really got to stop second guessing yourself.

So it is insanely difficult to heal from the power and the control games that an abuser pulls when you’re still in the relationship. It is much easier to start healing when you’re gone from it. So remember, last week, I talked about why it’s so insanely hard to heal from all of this. So what they do is they are constantly undermining your sense of self. They are constantly undermining who you are and they’re constantly undermining your certainty. They want you to not trust your gut because your gut is literally screaming at you the entire time you’re with them. It’s kind of like there’s something wrong here. And then because of our training because of our grooming from our family of origin, we go up shut up, gut I’m not listening to you. You know, I want to believe that there are person, I want to believe that they do have my best interests at heart. I want to believe that they are here for me and they’re not. They’re not in extrapolating that back to the doctors and stuff, doctors, if they’re a narcissist, they’re not there for your best interest. If something feels off, fire them get a different doctor, I swear to God, I can’t. It’s because Terri’s has been on my mind a lot recently, because it’s been the anniversary of her death. And so it’s like, what, she could still be here, if, you know, she had listened to her gut. So, um, so they love to pretend to be the expert. And if you’ll ever notice, narcissists are experts in literally everything. Not once not ever do they say, Oh, I don’t know the answer that let’s let me go look it up.

Kris Godinez  10:46

You know, it’s like, they immediately adopt this attitude of, Oh, I know the answer. I know the answer to everything. I’m an expert in everything. I’m you know, whatever. So you want to be really careful of anybody who professes to know literally everything. When somebody gives me a question, I really don’t know the answer to it. I’m like, Whoa, I don’t know that answer. Let me go research. And I’ll get back to you on Wednesday. So you know, but narcissists can’t do that. Because remember, they are 110% of all ego is there is no there. It’s all ego. And when it’s all ego, they have to be seen, because remember, it’s about being seen, it’s what other people think it’s other esteem, not self esteem for them, they have to be seen as the expert, one up perfect, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So what they do is, they get together with their target of abuse, usually either a plain old normal person who has empathy, or they get together with somebody who’s really sensitive, empathic, the whole thing, and they start whittling away at the self esteem, they start whittling away at who the person knew they were, before they got together with the abuser. So they’re watching. They’re watching every single thing that we do every single thing that we say they’re watching everything. And as soon as they figure out what makes us, that’s when they start I don’t like that, oh, you’re not this, oh, well, you’re this, oh, we’ll get it down to the desert, I did all of this. I know you better than you know, yourself, oh my god. If anybody ever says that to you run, do not walk to the nearest exit, swear to God, run, do not walk to the nearest exit. No, you know you better than anybody else. You know, you may need some help with things like trauma, but you know what you’re feeling because narcissists do not feel.

So one of the ways they take away our personal agency is to start crumbling, the self esteem, whatever self esteem is there, in whatever certainty we have. So one of the ways to heal from that kind of abuse when we get out of it, because again, if you’re still in the abuse, if the person is still abusing you, if they’re still putting you down, if they’re still harming you, and lying to you, and rewriting history and gaslighting and everything, it is so hard to maintain who you are, because they’re constantly undermining it. So when you get out of an abusive relationship, I kid you not get with a good trauma therapist, if you cannot afford a trauma therapist, look into things like Catholic Charities, Catholic Charities, at least here in Arizona, does offer free counseling for domestic violence victims or targets of intimate partner abuse. So you know, look into things like that, look at Jewish Family Services, you know, look at colleges, universities, see if they have some sort of practicum, where they need people to practice on you would be with somebody who is a master’s level practitioner that’s being monitored by a licensed professional. But there are things like that. So, you know, look into that, because sometimes I have people writing and going, I can’t afford it, and I totally hear you. So try to find free counseling through one of the charities and or one of the domestic violence shelters, sometimes they’ll offer things like that. The other thing you can do is you can look up services in your area to start working on this stuff. So you want to get with a trauma therapist because you’ve got to get their voice out of your head. Because what ends up happening is we come out of that abusive relationship, our power is gone. Our certainty is toast. We don’t know who we are. We literally are like, I do I like macaroni and cheese. I don’t even know.

Kris Godinez  14:47

I was never allowed to order I was never allowed to, you know, vocalize what I wanted or what I needed. And if I did, I was told no, I was wrong. You know, do you see where I’m going with that? They literally do that and they do everything they can to make us doubt and to make us question. So for example, if we get, like a strong opinion about something they’ll come out and be like, but do you really think that? Really do you really know you don’t really think that they do, I swear to God, that is what they do. It’s like, if you don’t agree with them, they do one of two things. They either try to manipulate you into agreeing with them, or seeing, you know, or agreeing with whatever their worldview is, or whether they like neck or cheese or whatever. Or they get angry that you don’t have the exact same opinion they do. And they use bullying and intimidation, to force you to change your mind. And what does that do that erodes the sense of self because you’ve learned that if you stand up for yourself, you’re going to get bullied, you’re going to get intimidated, you’re going to get screamed at, you’re going to get, you know, whatever. So when you leave an abusive relationship, all of the techniques that they’ve used all the gaslighting, all the lying, all the rewriting history, all of the intimidation, all of the anger, all of the raging, that is all been used to force you into compliance. There’s a great song by Oh, is it Demi Lovato? I think it’s called Freak. And she talks about abuse. And I was just like, oh, girl, yeah, there’s another song. by Muse. I think it’s called compliance. But anyway, it’s just, it’s talking about abuse is talking about brainwashing. It’s talking about, you know, how they make us lose ourselves. So getting out of an abusive relationship, all of this stuff that they used to get power and control because remember, it’s all about power and control. There is no love in this equation. They do not love. They do not love manipulating somebody that’s not love screaming at somebody raging, that’s not love lying to them about who they are. That’s not love, you know, trying to force them to change their mind about something that’s really, you know, like a boundary thing. That’s not love. That’s not love. They are all about power control. That’s what they get off on. That’s what they enjoy.

So when we leave, it’s really important to get with a good trauma therapist. At the very least get the self esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, get your badass by Jensen Sincero, get badass habits also by Jensen Sincero. And start working on that re building of who you are and knowing who you are. So it’s really important when you leave, you’ve got to punt that voice in your head. And oftentimes people will tell me, oh, you know, I don’t, it’s not okay for me to be happy. It’s not okay for me to laugh. It’s not okay for me to do this are okay for me to do that? Because, you know, my abuser would come unglued. And I’m like, okay, stop, take a deep breath. You need to write the abuser and burn it a go pound sand letter with everything that they told you. You were that wasn’t true. Everything they told you you couldn’t do or that you weren’t, you know, this, you know, they’ll say horrible things. Like, they’ll attack your physicality, they’ll attack your sexuality, they’ll attack your Schumer, they’ll attack anything that makes you you. They want you to give it up because they don’t have it and how dare you do. So when you leave right to go pound letter to end just write out everything they did at the very, very end of it, you’re going to take your power back from them, dear abuser, whoever that was, you know what I’m not believing. In other words, you said, you know, you said this, this, this, this and this, they were all lies. I am beautiful. I am smart. I am funny. I am kind I am, you know, whatever it is that they lied to you about, you know, the I Am. So that’s really important. And you basically say, I’m not listening to you anymore. You’re not in my life, I don’t need to believe you, because you’re a liar. Go pay on sand or whatever you need to say.

Kris Godinez  19:04

I mean, like I said, I’ve had some people write 27 pages, very tiny little letters, telling them to go pound sand. So whatever you need to do, but get it out of your head, get it onto paper, trot it out to the barbecue, read it out loud once like a declaration of independence and burn it. So this is a way to kind of take your power back. And one of the ways that we feel unempowered is that there is no closure with these Jack wagons. There’s just not and there’s not ever going to be because they, in their heads, have never done a wrong thing ever in their lives, like ever. And they’re never going to take responsibility for what they’ve done. Ever. They’re just, it’s not like you’re going to get a sincere apology from them. What you will get is a Hoover apology.

So the Hoover apology is another way of eroding our sense of self because then that little kid inside of us goes “They’re apologizing so they can change!” No! Incorrect response! No, they cannot change and a fake apology is what they do. They can’t do a sincere apology because a sincere apology requires changed behavior. So what they’ll do is do the whole I’m sorry, you, I’m sorry, but I’m sorry, you made me. I’m sorry. You know, the moon was full, I mean, some BS excuse as to why they abused you. And if you’re not careful, and you have not started working on self esteem and started working on that inner child, that inner child is going to go, but they’re apologizing, okay, words mean nothing. Show me. Show me. You know, seriously. It’s like, Ah, nope, sorry. Thank you. No. So a sincere apology is Oh, my God, I hurt you. I own it. That was not my intention. I am horrified that I did that. mortified that I did that. What can I do to make amends? What do you need? And it will never happen again. And then it never freakin happens again. Okay. With an abuser. They’re like, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. But I’m sorry. You I’m sorry. You made me. I’m sorry. The moon was full. I’m sorry. You know, some BS excuse. So real people don’t make excuses. They just don’t it. Yes, I hurt you. And I don’t get to tell you that I didn’t hurt you. Did you hear what I just said? I hurt you. I don’t get to tell you. I didn’t hurt you. But boy, Howdy do they love to tell you that they didn’t hurt you? Yeah, so don’t believe the apologies don’t fall for that when they show you who they are. And they give you an insincere apology. The I’m sorry, but I’m sorry, you and they start telling you that they didn’t hurt you. And you don’t get to feel what you’re feeling. Run, do not walk to the nearest exit. This is another way to take power and control away from you. Because that’s what they are all about. They are nothing but about power and control. Like I said, there is no love in there. People who love somebody, don’t try to tell them that they don’t get to feel the way they feel.

How many times have we been invalidated by our abuser with the abuser saying, Oh, you’re so sensitive. What? Yeah, because I have an actual soul demon. You know what I’m saying? I mean, it’s just I’m sorry, that just that just gets me I’m just like, Oh, hell no, you know. So it’s like, yeah, they do that. It’s like they make fun of us for the very thing that attracted them to us in the first place, because they’ve realized they cannot possess it. So if they cannot possess it, guess what they’re going to try to do. Destroy it. They want us dead, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, sexually, and otherwise, they do. So taking your power back means when you leave the relationship, you get back into relationship with who you are. What did you used to like to do before you got with the abuser? What did you know about yourself before you got with the abuser? What of their BS lies did you fall for and why? Who did that mimic? Were they mimicking mom? Were they mimicking dad? Was it grandparents? Was it? What was going on? Why did the inner child fall for that? So you want to start working on all of this stuff. So inner child workbook, either by Katherine Taylor or Luccia Capachione You want to get the disease to please by Harriet Breaker to work on a people pleasing stuff. So you’re not falling for that

Kris Godinez  23:29

Oh, I need to please them. Oh, I need to please. No, you don’t? You absolutely do not. And you are under no obligation to have a relationship with anybody seriously, if they are abusive if you don’t want to be around them.

So the question to ask yourself is another way to take your power back if you’re dealing with a really manipulative, abusive family, family of origin, right? And they’re like, Oh, you have to be around your mom and dad or you have to be around your brother or sister or you have to be around the grandparents. Okay, take a deep breath. If you were not related to these bozos, would you have literally anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly, you are under no obligation to have a relationship with anybody. You’re not! I don’t care if they’re family and of course then people start throwing the whole Honor thy mother and father, okay, I’m sorry. But if somebody has an abusive POS, and they have been abusing and abusing and abusing, I cannot imagine a loving God being okay with forcing that kid to go back to that mom and dad. Do you see where I’m going with that? And in fact, in the Bible, the very next line after that whole Honor thy mother and father is parents do not bring your children to anger. So yeah, it’s a two way street, even in the Bible. So if somebody throws that at you, they’re showing you who they are. They’re flying monkeys Why in the world would somebody want you to go be in a relationship with somebody you’ve already explained to them is abusive? Right? So remember, flying monkeys are all about drama. They’re all about chaos. They’re all about drama, and they are doing things at the behest of the abusers. Don’t hand your power over to one of them, either you have agency, you can say no.

And that’s why it’s so important to start working on boundaries. And that protection of No, no is a wall no is like, Ah, this is a no, this is a boundary, write out your list of deal breakers, but stick to it. I can’t tell you the number of times I have people write their list of deal breakers, but they’re still not quite there yet. The inner child is still not on board with completely severing ties. And so it will be like, Oh, well, but it wasn’t that bad. What, uh, well, but other people have it worse. This is not a competition people. This is not a competition. Your experience is your experience. And if your experience was abusive, neglectful, harmful, hurtful, taking your power away and making you feel less than, then guess what, they’re abusive, and you need to stay the hell away from them, period. And that’s another way to take your power back is going no contact and no contact means absolutely no contact when you’ve decided to go no contact with somebody you do not tell them Oh, I’m going no contact. Why? Because you’re handing your power over to them. Remember, narcissists love to pump for information. You know, it’s like, oh, what’s going on? What’s going on? What’s going on? I need to know what’s going on. And if you tell them Well, I’m going no contact with you in the mistaken idea… this is an inner child thing, that you’re somehow going to get them to change or to suddenly wake up or have a V eight moment or whatever, no, all you’re doing is giving them fuel for the fire. And what they will do is they will gather the troops, they will get the flying monkeys. And they’ll start bugging you like nobody’s business, when you go no contact, you quietly go, no contact, blocked them on everything have nothing to do with them. If Flying Monkeys start going, why aren’t you talking to them, bla bla bla bla, you know, judge who the flying monkey is some of them are quite obvious.

Kris Godinez  27:25

Some of them are covert. So remember, flying monkeys are all about taking your power away from you, too, because they’re one of two things. They’re either ignorant. They don’t understand abuse, in which case you can educate them. And if they, you know, come around and realize what they’re doing and stop communicating with the abuser, great. But if they’re not, then they’re minor narcissists themselves usually covert, and they will try to continue the drama going, because it’s the greatest show on earth, and they will sit back with popcorn and just watch the sparks. So you know, be careful with that.

So, I think the thing I’m trying to impress upon everyone is that you have got power you do! Your abuser’s objective is to make you think you don’t, you do. And one of the greatest powers we have is getting back in touch with what we know to be true about ourselves, what is our true nature, and that sometimes takes a trauma therapist, especially if the lying has been going on for years and years and years. Because the internal critic is going to be you know, yammering at us and lying to us, too, if that makes sense. So it’s getting back to the self-esteem, getting back to recognizing you have worth, you have value, you are the most expert person on you there is on the face of the planet, the abuser is not so it’s it’s really separating out from what they said and realizing that all of the nasty horrible things that they said during the devalue in the discard phase was really about them. Getting your self-esteem back having incredibly strong boundaries. That is always to take your power back.

Writing and burning letters, getting it out of your head getting it onto paper and burning it don’t send it to them guys. I cannot stress this enough people keep going. But but but it’ll feel good. If I send it to them. Nope. All you’re going to do is give them fuel for their fire and that will start an exchange of nastiness and it won’t ever stop. Remember, they cannot stand being ignored. That’s why no contact is such a wonderful thing because it’s kind of like you don’t have to deal with them. And they’re set. They’re stuck stewing in their own petard you know what I’m saying? So, they don’t know They have no way to get to you. If you’ve gone no contact and you’ve blocked them. They get to deal with their own nastiness. And they will go find another target guarantee. At some point in time, I do want to talk, probably not this coming month, but probably next month, I want to talk about the guilt a lot of survivors have of you know, do I contact the new supply? Do I not contact and so, we’re going to talk about that, not this month, but in October, I think that would be a really good one because several people have asked me about that.

So basically, what I want to impress upon you is their whole mission is to steal your identity, they want to steal who you are, they want to steal your love, your joy, your joie de vie, your happiness, your laughter, your you know, your ability to feel, they want to take that from you. And when they realize they can’t, then they start damning you for it. You know, you laugh too much. You’re too happy. You’re too… there’s no such thing, guys. No such thing. Hmm. Perception is everything. If somebody’s being sensitive about something, then they’re being sensitive about something for a reason. So you know, they can’t, they try to tell you, Oh, well, you don’t get to be angry at me for abusing you. You don’t get to feel what you’re feeling because I’ve abused you. You run, do not walk to the nearest exit. When you leave the abuse, taking your power back means remembering who you are writing out all of the abuse and burning it, letting it go, have no further contact with them. Especially if you have a restraining order. Do not contact them do not, do not, do not it’s going to backfire on you. So, taking yourself back. It’s like, No, I get to love me, I get to remember who I am, I get to have self-esteem,

Kris Godinez  31:48

I get to realize my own worth, I get to realize my own value, I get to realize that I am a good person. And I do enjoy people in the you know, I can trust people once I start trusting my gut. So that’s why getting with a trauma therapist is hugely important so that you can get back to remembering who you are. Work on the self esteem, work on trusting your gut, because these are the ones that when you see abuse, they’ll deny it. And they’ll say oh, no, you don’t see the pink elephant taking a crap in the corner of the living room. Oh, no, that pink elephant is not there. And if you continue to say you see the pink elephant, especially in a fake, abusive, families of origin, they’ll beat it out of you. You don’t see it, you know, and they’ll hit you. That’s what my family did. So yeah, so you want to get back into trusting your gut, you want to get back into remembering what made you happy. What did make you happy, take your power back. And every time the abuser in your head, tries to take it away. Write a go pound sand letter to them, and burn it. And make sure that you are starting to trust you, you know you more than anybody else on the face of this planet. Trust your gut, listen to your gut, take your power back. And if you can have some sense of humor about it, like you know if one of those nasty thoughts pops up, and it was like, Oh, well, you’re ugly, or you’re this or you’re that or you’re incompetent, blah, blah, laugh at it. Wow, do you really that’s the best you got to go pound sand. Goodbye. Bye. Now, do you see where I’m going with that? Because devil runs for the laughter and abusers can’t stand it when we don’t take them seriously. So I’m not saying you do that to their face. I’m saying you do it to the voice in your head. So because they want us to believe them long after they’re gone. So don’t believe them. Don’t, don’t do it. If you were not related to them. If you didn’t have them in your life right now, would you have anything to do with them? If the answer is no, act accordingly. You don’t have to be peer pressured into seeing family or seeing friends or staying at a job or anything else you can leave you can tell them no you can draw boundaries. You can go do something else. You don’t have to go to the family reunion. You don’t!

So anyway, I hope that kind of covered the power and control that’s all they want. There’s no love in there. So but what they do to us is they erode who we are and it’s really important to get back to who are we what do we love? What do we enjoy? What did we used to love etc. etc. etc. so Self- Ssteem Workbook Glenn Schiraldi, You’re a Badass Jen Sincero, Badass Habits Jen Sincero. The Disease to Please Harriet Braiker, CPTSD from Surviving to Thriving Pete Walker. All of those books are going to help if you can get with a good trauma therapist. If you cannot afford it. Start working on the books. Absolutely. All right, let’s dive into the questions. I’m going to have to make this bigger because these contacts are not meant for reading small print.

Okay, what’s a good way to deal with a narcissist manager? At work, Ooh, okay, it kind of depends. It depends on how they’re how they’re behaving. So, in some situations when I’ve had managers this is back in the day when I was getting my LAC when I had managers that were obviously narcissists, if you can you flatter them, you know, brown nose, I guess, you know, that kind of thing. If however, they’re the kind of narcissist manager, where they are, what’s the word I’m looking for abusive, looking for a scapegoat, etc., etc., etc., you really have a lot fewer options. So, document, document everything and look to get a different manager if you can, or get out of that job, if you can. The other way is, you know, just realize that there are scapegoating you, it’s very unlikely that they’re going to scapegoat somebody else, they found the perfect target, right? So once they kind of zero in on somebody to scapegoat, they’re usually not going to drop it, which is why I’m saying your only other option is to get out. So but if they’re the kind of narcissistic manager where you can just flatter them, and they soak it up, then okay, you just get through, you know what I’m saying. But if they’re the ones that are looking for a target, and you’re it, it’s unlikely that they’ll stop is what I’m trying to say. And they will encourage other people to pick on you as well. So that’s the danger of that. So if that’s the situation, get out, save yourself, get out, find a different job, get into a different division, document everything you know, and that’s, that’s your best option. So I know it sucks, it sucks.

Kris Godinez  36:42

And in my younger years, there were a few times where I had to quit the job because they were just nasty and vicious and looking for somebody to scream at. And I’m just like, Ah, nope, sorry. I got plenty of that from my dad. I don’t need it from you. So yeah, there that is okay.

Um, does the narcs need for power and control over other people make them helpless and depending on others, my late narc mother was overly dependent on others while trying to control others. Well, in a way. Yeah. Because remember, narcissists can’t stand being alone. They can’t I mean, how quickly do they jump into another relationship like that? Because they need another supply, right? So in that sense, they need sacrificial lambs I think is the best way to put it. So they’re not codependent in the way you’re thinking though. So they remember they don’t feel, they don’t love. They don’t feel they don’t feel the emotions the way you and I do. What they are looking for is supply. And people mean no more to them than this pen, seriously. And once the pen is out of ink, what do they do? They toss it because it has no more use to them. So when they’re looking for the next supply next supply and supply next supply, it’s not because they love them. It’s not because they want them to approve of them. It’s because they need supply and supply to them is the ego supply so the ego supply is people paying attention to them, especially if they’re the covert, narcissist the victim right? They want the sympathy. They want the attention. They want this they want that. If it’s an overt NARC, they need somebody telling them how great they are all the time. If it’s a communal narcissist, they need followers, that’s their big that’s where they get their supply from is having all of these followers. So somatic narcissists need to be complimented on their bodies all the time. So it’s not it’s not what you’re thinking as far as codependency is concerned, it is more a supply chain issue, if you will. They’re looking for the next supply. They’re looking for the next person that they can use up and toss you know, so yeah, in a way, yes, but not in the way that you’re thinking.

Are they helpless? Well, if they’re covert, and that kind of sounds like what you’re talking about. Remember, covert narcissists are the ultimate martyr. Oh my god. Seriously, it’s like with my dad, I’m like, dude, just fracking take yourself off the cross. You’re not Jesus Christ. You know what I’m saying? So, you know, he would you know, oh, you know, my family. You know, what was his favorite always favorite saying was from King Lear. Sharper than the serpent’s tooth. How sharper than the serpent’s tooth is that of an ungrateful child and he used to quote that all the damn time because he kept feeling like we were ungrateful. sitting here going, Ah, I’m supposed to be grateful for you hitting me every five seconds. Go pound sand, you know? So that was his favorite quote, and he was a total murderer. And so you know, victim victim victim, he would tell everybody in their dog how horrible his kids were. Unless of course we made him look good. Unless of course we may read the newspapers in which case then, oh, you know, my daughter’s just the best damn he was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. I’m not even kidding. Yeah. So they play the victim, they play the martyr they play the, you know, you never write you never cool you might hear all by myself How dare you leave me alone? You know that don’t think because they’re looking for the sympathy that’s narcissistic supply to them. So playing helpless is one of their games, it’s learned helplessness because they’ve learned which snap my fingers they’ve learned that if they play helpless that people will come and help them. Right. So it’s really important stop series I’m not talking to you go away. It’s really important to recognize that that’s the covert narcissist game is to oh, I you know, I just need this, oh, I can’t do this. Oh, my, I don’t understand the Internet. You can’t, you know, I can’t do it myself. You need to do it for me. And I mean, I’m not great with technology, but show me how to do it. And I can do it on my own. But with a covert narcissist, it’s like, I can’t do it, do it, you need to do it for me.

Kris Godinez  41:16

That always drove me crazy, because it was kind of like you are perfectly capable of learning how to do this. So they play the victim. They want the attention. They’re not really helpless. But they sure as hell play it. I mean, they seriously they deserve an Academy Award for the acting that they do. As far as the helplessness is concerned. Because really, when the rubber meets the road, they can do it themselves. But if they think they can get some narcissistic supply off of it, oh, I’m just this innocent little old lady who just you know, can’t take care of myself or little man or whatever. Yeah, no. So that, that is kind of that. Yeah, they do do that. But it’s not helpless and dependent. In the way you’re thinking. It’s not… it’s intentional. It’s absolutely intentional.

Okay, do narcs need to need the power and control over others? Because they know they have no control over their own lives. Dign, ding, ding, ding! Yes. So when, in a way, so remember, they’re not self aware there. They are not self aware. So Narcissus? Anybody, anybody who’s trying to control somebody else. Let me just here’s a clue to watch for somebody who’s incredibly controlling and wanting to control everybody else, I can guarantee you there is chaos going on inside absolute chaos. The thoughts are not nice. There’s no love, no compassion, no kindness, no peace. No, you know, none of that. So the more out of control a person is, the more they seek to control everything around them seriously. So it’s really, really important to pay attention to that. And that, unfortunately, is a learned behavior that then the children of narcissists get, oh, well, if I can control everything that I’m safe. No, the only person you need to be controlling, is you. That’s it. But we learn that from watching. So you know, don’t make yourself wrong. If you’re finding that happening. That’s a component of anxiety. If I can control this, if I can control that person, if I can do it, then I’m say, but it’s a learned behavior. And it’s not helpful. So the only person you can control is you and your thoughts. And that’s it. We are on a rock hurtling through space, with a huge giant fireball that we spin around, and you really think we have control over anything? No. So let it go. Let it go. Let it go. But yes, they the more out of control a person is the more they attempt to be manipulative and controlling and this that and everything because then they’re focused outwards. Because remember, everything about narcissism is focused outwards. Healthy thoughts are focused inwards, inner stuff, healthy life. Self esteem, not other esteem. So but narcissists can’t do that. Because if they get quiet, it’s chaos in there. It’s nastiness, you know, all that nastiness that they’re spewing out over everybody else that’s going on in their head all the time. And they got to find an outlet because they cannot stand it. Really what if they ever really thought about it, which they don’t, but if they ever thought about it, that’s why they’re doing it because they’re trying to get rid of it. That’s why they project because they’re trying to accuse you of the very thing that they’re doing because they can’t accept that they’re doing it. That’s projection. Um, okay. How are we doing? Okay?

Is the abuse the narcissist, wait, is the abuse the narcissist does an addiction. It seems they need to do more and more of it. Well, yeah. They’re crazy it most narcissists have some form of addiction going on usually porn. They’re usually addicted to porn, they’ve usually got a gambling habit of some sort. Or they’re addicted to having multiple affairs, because you know, can I get away with it? You know, that kind of thing? Um, they’re addicted to something. They’re addicted to sex, they’re addicted to porn, they’re addicted to affairs, they’re addicted to drugs, they’re addicted to alcohol, they’re addicted to you know, whatever. And I’m sorry, I lost the question. Yes.

Kris Godinez  45:35

Is it an addiction? Yes. And this is why. And remember, with an addiction, it takes more and more and more of whatever that action or drug or alcohol is in order to get the same effect. So with an abuser, when the target of abuse leaves, right, they go away, they go, no contact, well, then the abuser starts hoovering and the target of abuse comes back. The love bombing phase, every single time the target of abuse comes back gets shorter and shorter and shorter, and the devalue in the discard gets longer and longer and longer. The amount of emotional and physical violence also gets increased every single time because a couple of reasons one, they’re punishing you for leaving number one. Number two, they’re sadists remember when we’re when we’re dealing with a dark triad so the narcissist the psychopath and the Machiavellian so Machiavellian is control freak psychopath is rules don’t apply to me. I can do whatever I want. Narcissist is all about them. They’re sadistic, they enjoy inflicting pain, emotional pain, physical pain didn’t matter. My dad loved to hit us. Why? Because he got off on it. You could tell he had that little smirk. You know, when he landed a particularly nasty emotional Barb, he got that little smirk. He enjoyed it. So, he was a sadist, absolutefreakinlutely. So, they enjoy it. And so they keep pushing the envelope. And it takes more and more and more and more just like with a porn addiction, and it takes more and more and more and more for them to get the same level of enjoyment. So same thing with an alcohol addiction. Same thing with a drug addiction, same thing. You name the addiction takes more and more and more and more. So are they addicted to the to doing abuse? Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. Will they ever admit that? No. Because they don’t change, and they don’t get better. Let me just be clear about that. So yeah, for them it’s a kind of an addiction. Yeah. But it’s also intentional. They enjoy it. They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop. They’re absolutely not going to stop. And does it get worse? Yeah, it does. And I think a fallacy that a lot of survivors have is that when the abuser when they’re finally done with the abuser, like they’ve they’re like, Okay, I get it, they’re not changing. I’m leaving, you know, they leave for good and the abuser immediately gets for somebody else. The target of abuse is left going. Wait, so they’re having this wonderful life with this new person. Well, they’re doing the same thing with them that they did with you give it time, it takes time. And eventually the cycle will start. But you don’t need to be around to watch it. You really don’t stay the hell away. No Contact etc.

Okay, let’s see. Um, okay, what do you say to a guy who makes plans with you, but doesn’t follow through? I’m done. Don’t call me.

Kris Godinez  48:47

So there’s a couple of things that are going on in society that just, I just, I can’t even, so ghosting is one of them. I’ve never… That to me is a coward’s way out. If you don’t want to go on a second date, or you don’t want to talk to somebody, you end it, you know, this isn’t working. And thank you very much. And we’re done. The only time you would ghost is if you’re ghosting, say for example, an abuser, you know, that’s when you would be like okay, and no contact and we’re done. You know, that kind of thing. But if somebody makes plans with you, and they never follow through, that’s rude. That’s rude! Manners maketh the human being. Seriously, manners, manners. If you’re going to plan something with somebody and you never follow through. What does that say? Well, that says that you’re not important enough for them to follow through. And at that point, you’ve got to recognize your own worth and just be like, I’m no longer wasting my time with this person. No, thank you. No, thank you. I had a friend when I was in college. And I realized after we graduated that everything had to be on her terms. And it always had to have a purpose. And it was always like, you know, helping her do stuff or doing her hair. or, you know, it wasn’t a friendship and I realized I’m being used, you know, and you know, we would make plans and she would cancel or she would, you know, no want to do it because it wasn’t something she was interested in. And so I finally confronted her because that’s who I am. I just, you know, give people every opportunity to behave, and when they don’t, then I’m like, Okay, and so, um, you know, I confronted her and I said, Look, you know, this, you never, you never want to follow through on plans, especially if it’s something you’re not interested in. I’ve done plenty of things that you’re interested in that I’m not, you’re always wanting to use my services as a hairdresser, or have me help you with the house or whatever. It’s not reciprocated, you know, what’s going on, you know, this is not this is not working for me, this is not a friendship, I feel used. And word salad ensued, like, word salad ensued. And I was like, okay, all right. And this like I said, this isn’t like in my early 20s. So, at that point, I just was like, okay, and we’re done. And see, you know, seriously because it was like oh, that’s not a friendship a friendship is given take a friendship is you enjoy the person’s company, you go do things they like, you go do things, you know, you do things that vice versa, you know what I’m saying? You do things they like they do things you like, you know, you talk and you converse, and you emote, and you turn the friendship dance here, you know? So, um, yeah, you do you do things together that you enjoy both of you, you know, you because like, for example, Lynne and I, it’s like, sometimes she wants to go see the period dramas and I’m just kind of like, Okay, I’ll go with her. But then I’ll drag her to one of my, you know, like, Action Adventure things like we just saw a bullet train. Oh, my God, that was so funny. I was hysterical. I loved it. I did. The critics hated it, but I loved so anyway. Um, so yeah, you know, you do you cuz you like the person and you want to hang out with them. So you know what I’m saying? So yeah, if somebody doesn’t follow through, that’s basically telling you everything, you need to know that they’re not. They don’t value you. You need to value yourself. And if somebody is wasting your time, and not following through, or always wanting to do what they want to do, but not doing what you want to do, you know, he needs to be back and forth, guys, it needs to be a give and take, then you need to probably cut ties and in that friendship, so. So there that is okay, let’s see here.

Do abusers go to therapy? And do they get better? Oh, hell no. They don’t get better. I’m going to answer that last half first. No, they don’t get better. Do they go to therapy only if they can manipulate the therapist. So generally, what they’ll do is they’ll pick a therapist, either brand new out of school doesn’t know anything about personality disorders, or narcissistic abuse or domestic violence or intimate partner violence or anything like that. Or they’ll find a therapist that is, oh, what is the term I’m looking for? The ones who don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings that never call them out on anything? Humanists? That’s what it is. Humanists. So oh, we don’t use labels. Oh, we don’t? Oh, no, you know, they’re just misunderstood. God, seriously, don’t make me puke. So yeah, they’ll go to therapy, if they can find somebody that’s either a humanist therapist, or that is fresh out of school doesn’t understand any of this stuff. And generally, they’ll go one to three times. And as soon as the therapist goes, therapist goes, and where’s your responsibility in this?

Kris Godinez  53:45

That’s when they’re like, you’re incompetent, you’re this, you’re that and they’re out. So, um, don’t ever don’t ever go to couples counseling with an abuser, don’t do it. They may be sitting there telling you, oh, I’m going to change. You know, baby, I promise you, it’ll be different this time. It’ll be different. I will change, things will be better. They’ve shown you who they are. healthy, normal people do not freakin abuse. They don’t not verbally, not physically, not mentally, not emotionally, not sexually, not on any level. So if they’ve been abusive, and you’re threatening to leave, and now suddenly they want to do counseling when you’ve been begging them for like years before to go and they wouldn’t do it because mostly they don’t want to go. Usually what they do is when therapy is first brought up, I’m not going to therapist therapists are just crackpots. They don’t know what they’re talking about! You want to know what the real reason is? They’re afraid that I’m going to see them. That’s exactly what they’re afraid of. Because they don’t want the therapist to figure out their game. And they don’t want a good therapist to be like, yeah, we’re not doing couples therapy. We’ll do individual, you know, because you cannot do couples therapy with an abuser. What they will do is they will take whatever you’ve said in therapy. And then as soon as the session is over, as soon as the session is over, out in the parking lot in the car, that why did you say that?  And they’ll use it to abuse you. And to shut you up, they’re going to use the intimidation and the anger and the bullying to shut you up. Because they don’t want people to know what their game is. They don’t want to be found out. That’s why they hate therapists, because a good therapist will recognize one fairly quickly.

So um, do they go to therapy? Yeah, when their back is against the wall, when there’s a court ordered therapy demanded of them, for example, anger management, or they’ve been court mandated to go get therapy by the courts, or the target of abuse has finally had enough and says, That’s it, I’m out of here unless you go get help. And it looks like they’re leaving, and then they’ll go to a therapist, but as soon as the therapist is on to them, like so for example, every once in a while one will slip through my interrogation that I give when I first talked interrogation, it’s not really interrogation. But I ask questions, you know, like, why are you coming in what’s going on? Let me make sure I’m a good fit for you. And I tell them how I do therapy and things like that. So um, they’ll come in, and they’ll try to make it all about the partner, and I have to stop them and go, your partner’s not here. This is not couples therapy. This is your therapy, we need to be working on you. And oh, boy, you should see them do the dance to try to not talk about themselves or talk about their family of origin. Because they know as soon as I say that I’m not and they’ll try it again. Next session, they’ll try to talk about this. Now I know that person is not session with us. This is not couples therapy. This is about you. Let’s work on this right. And they’ll make an appointment for the third session, but they never show up. So yeah, so basically, they’ll say that they go to therapy, and they’ll try to find a therapist that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. That doesn’t know narcissistic abuse, it doesn’t understand narcissistic abuse, etc., etc., etc. They’ll go for one to three times, and then they stop because they know better than everybody else. They’re an expert. So they think and they think therapists are stupid, because that’s the story they tell themselves because they don’t want to be seen. So no, they do not change. Leopard does not change its spots, they do not ever change. They don’t get better. They don’t get healed. They don’t have an epiphany, the clouds do not part and the angels sing and they suddenly have remorse for every rotten thing they’ve ever done. It never happens guys, they do not change your best shot is to get the hell away from them. Go completely no contact. Get with a good therapist. Start working on self esteem and boundaries. Write your list of deal breakers and go live your best life. That is your best shot.

All right, guys. So you guys go have a great week. Take your power and control back. Don’t let anybody tell you what you’re feeling. You know what you’re feeling. Nobody else knows what you’re feeling because they’re not living up here. You’re living up there. So you trust your feelings. You trust your gut you trust what you know to be true for you. Don’t let somebody tell you who you are because that’s what narcissists love to do. Don’t let them go live your best life. All right, my love’s go have a great week and I will talk to you soon. Bye.

Kris Godinez  58:30

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 08-28-2022 Power and Control appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Okay, so before we dive into the topic, a little public service announcement I wanted to do something that’s been coming up for a lot of my clients and a lot of listeners. So social media, okay. People are comparing themselves to what they see on social media. And it’s damaging, because they’ll talk to me or they’ll, you know, they’re a client, they come in and we start discussing this and they start comparing themselves to what they’re seeing on social media.

So, for example, men will see stuff on social media, and they’ll start getting body shamed, because they’re seeing these guys that are, you know, cut and working out and you know, also have a full time job and this than the other women, same thing. women that are mothers are getting shamed, because some of these social media people have got, you know, tons of kids and the house is clean, and they look put together and this that the other thing, what you guys are not seeing is that those social media personalities are showing you what they want you to see you’re not seeing their everyday life, you’re not seeing the two o’clock in the afternoon meltdowns from the two year old, you’re not seeing the fact that this person who’s incredibly cut is being paid to work out six, eight hours a day, you know, every day, and you know, has got a sponsor or whatever. Do you see where I’m going with that?

So what is seen on social media you cannot, you cannot believe everything you see, the women that have got the 20 million kids the perfect house, the perfect hair, this that the other thing, what you don’t see is they probably have staff, they probably have somebody cleaning the house for them. They’ve got a beautician, they’ve gotten nannies they’ve got… when I lived in LA, and I was working in LA as a hairdresser. Every single one of my clients that was in the industry had a nanny, they had somebody that helped them with the children, they weren’t doing it all on their own. So if somebody’s got 100,000 million kids, and they’re saying, Oh, I’m doing it all on my own, they’re either lying, or they’ve got a nanny or do you see where I’m going with or they’ve got help somewhere. Okay, family members, friends, whatever.

So, the point is, is you cannot believe everything you see on social media. And so when our clients or anybody that’s like, oh my gosh, I’m feeling horrible about myself. Okay, you got to stop watching it, you got to stop watching the stuff that’s making you feel awful. Because nine times out of 10 is not even true. So you know, you’re not seeing what’s going on behind the scenes. You’re not seeing their everyday life. And the same thing goes with reality television, it drives me crazy. When I have people sit down and I’m like, Oh, I’m obsolete. I’m old. Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, where’d you get that ageist thing from? Well, you know, it’s, you know, everyone’s worried about turning 30 And I’m like, You’re just you’re still a puppy. You’re thirty, you got a long time ahead of you, God willing in the crick don’t rise, you know what I’m saying? So it’s this whole idea that you know, you’re not good enough do you hear where I’m going with that?

Kris Godinez  04:05

What does that sound like? Not even good. So if you’re watching Social Media, and if it is making you feel awful, It’s like that old song that was like a Graduation Commencement. You know, don’t read beauty magazines. They’ll only make you feel ugly. It’s the same thing. Briefly, I’m going to tell you a little story. I had a Playboy model come in when I was working as a hairdresser in LA. And she was so proud of her spread and I know I’ve told the story before but I’m going to tell it again. And so she came in and she had her spreadsheet was showing everybody and I swear to you, I looked at this spread. I looked at her. I looked at this spread. I looked at her and it didn’t even look like her. I would never know that was her. They had done all of the shaping and this this is before Photoshop. It was back in the early 90s. So you know, it didn’t even look like her and then she told me all of the and she was beautiful. Don’t get me wrong. She was Beautiful. But then she told me all of the plastic surgeries she had to stay relevant in this bizarre industry that is the entertainment industry. I mean, she’d had cheeks shaved and chin implanted and nose shaved and you know, boobs done and hips done and buttock implants and, and liposuction and I’m just like, Oh, my, how old are you? 21? What? Yeah, so no, no, no, no, no, with the side of no and an extra helping of NO. And the scariest part of it was that her breasts were rejecting the implants. This was right around the time that the whole problem with the silicone breast implants was happening. And she’s like, Yeah, they’re getting really hard. And I just don’t understand. And, you know, there’s that. And then she was talking about that. And I’m just like, Oh, my God, girl, get them out. Get them out, get them out. So yeah, it. Yeah, don’t read beauty magazines, they only make you ugly, feel ugly, because it’s a comparison to something that is not real.

Same thing with social media, if you’re seeing somebody who’s like, supposedly got their crap together, and yet they have all these kids or you know, their perfect body, you’re not seeing what they’re doing to get that. I was reading an article yesterday about body shaming and men. And how the MCU has been really hard on the average Joe, because all of these guys when they talk about their workout routines, especially Hugh Jackman, he goes above and beyond crazy dangerous, not healthy. To get that ripped cut bod, he literally would dehydrate for 36 hours before a shirtless scene, he would workout and then dehydrate and to do the shirtless scene so that the veins were popping and I’m just like, that is so that’s dangerous. So in these guys are doing literally eight hours a day working out different body groups, muscle groups every single day. That is their job, the average person who is working at a desk, you know, cubicle, you know, whatever we don’t, we’re not getting paid to work out eight hours a day. That’s not going to happen. I mean, we can hit the gym as much as we want. But literally, it takes eight hours a day hitting different body groups body muscle masses to get the superhero body, male, female doesn’t matter. So if you’re watching something, and it’s shaming you stop watching it. Just stop watching it. It’s not real, which then leads me into this next topic.

Ooh, so now we’re going to talk about why aren’t I over them yet? And believe me, this this kind of connects because the person we fell in love with wasn’t real. It’s kind of the same thing. It’s a little it’s yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about that.

Kris Godinez  07:53

So why is it so insanely hard to let go of our abuser? Okay, so there’s so much going on. I hope I can cover it in a half an hour. So think about what happens abusers look for people who are empathic they present to us the way that they think we want right? Oh, you like you know, it’s like Hans and Ana in Frozen. You like ice cream. I like ice cream. You like pizza, I like pizza you like you know, they mirror us and they make us believe that we have found our quote unquote soulmate. This is what they do. So it’s, it’s kind of a fantasy bond, we want to believe the best of them, because that’s how we are. That is how healthy normal people are, is we want to believe the best of people but what happens to us is, we fall in love with their potential because they show it to us, you know, they can fake it, they can do it for an incredibly short amount of time. So, they can fake the mirroring they can fake all of the good stuff that we value and like and you know that whole thing, but they can’t sustain it. But then that hooks us that hooks us with this illusion of this person that is kind and caring and funny and gentle and loves their kids and you know would be a good mom or a good dad or you know, whatever. So, it’s an illusion. It is the fantasy bond literally there is a book on it called love fantasy bond by I think it’s Robert Firestone great book, read it because we fall in love with the potential because we’ve seen them do and be the way that we wanted when they were in the love bombing phase. And that hooks us like ah like a fish so we get hooked.

Kris Godinez  09:59

So then when they flip and they start doing the devalue and the discard it is literally like cold water to the face, you know, ice water to the face, slap in the face, whatever it is like this, what the… you know? And it’s unbelievable because you’re like, wait, no, this is how you were, this is who you are. And it’s like, no, now they’re showing you who they really are. And it is… I can’t even describe it. It’s worse than a 7.2 earthquake. It is like every natural disaster happening all at once in your head, because they’ve been using your brain as a playground.

So they do the gaslighting they do the lying the cheating the stealing the flipping the script rewriting history. You know the come here, go away, come here, go away, come here, go away, you know that whole thing. And it messes with your mind. So, when they finally do the discard, the devalue and discard, and they start putting you down for all the things that they said they loved about you. What a head trip! And not in a good way. Some head trips are good, but this one is not. This is not a good head trip. This is a bad head trip. So, it’s the cognitive dissonance. It’s the…know you, you’re this way, but you’re doing this and you can’t accept it because you want to believe so badly that illusion that they sold you in the beginning.

So let’s talk about complicated grief. So, when these Jack wagons, kindest thing I can say for them, pull this kind of utter moo. They do devalue the discard, we get away from them, right. It is really insanely hard to heal. It is not impossible, but it is hard. And what makes it hard is that usually not always. But usually the abuser will do this continued hoovering. You know, Oh, baby, baby, I’ll change everything will be different. Blah, blah, blah. And so then we want to believe the potential. So, we run back and then the love bombing starts for a very short amount of time, every time you go back, the love bombing gets shorter and shorter and shorter. It takes on average, seven times leaving on average, that means 50% above 50% below to finally make the clean break and get away from these people.

So it’s so hard because we’ve got that empathy we fallen in love with the potential we could possibly be codependent. You know, wanting them to be okay. I can fix them love will heal them. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Love is not going to heal them. I wish wouldn’t that be? Wouldn’t this be a wonderful world if love was enough? It would be fantastic. I could retire and finally go live by the beach. That would be awesome. You know, but it’s not it’s love is not going to heal them. They do not feel the way you and I feel, they don’t have empathy. They don’t really truly care about anybody else. It is me me I,I,I more my genitals that seriously. That’s all they care about. So, when that happens, we’re dumbfounded. We’re shocked, like literally shocked. Like I said, every single natural disaster happening all at once. Because it’s like your mind blown. Like what the what just? Who what? They will say the most horrible things, they will do the most horrible things. And then they go away and then they started hoovering. And the wait could be anywhere from days, hours, days, weeks, months to years, decades, even I have seen them try to Hoover after 20 plus years was just like really, usually what happens is they run out of everybody else.

Kris Godinez  13:53

So they’re going back through the little black book boy, I’m dating myself on that one. But they’re going through their little black book trying to find a previous romantic partner that they can, you know, hook back into the system and get narcissistic supply from. So complicated grief plays into this because basically they have put a hand mixer in our brain and started stirring and doing the discard and the devalue and the gaslighting and the lying and the rewriting history, the love bombing and the hoovering and this, that and the other thing. So please don’t beat yourself up. This is this is hard to heal from is not impossible, but it is more challenging that if then if it were a healthy breakup, so there are such things as healthy breakups.

So, for example, you’re dating somebody and you realize, you know, I really love this person, but we’re just not there’s just not the right chemistry or it’s just not working or their values are different or they don’t want kids and I do or they do want kids and I don’t or you know and then you amicably I know it’s What a weird concept. amicably breakup. Those do occur amongst healthy people. Those do occur. Does it hurt? Yeah. Do you miss the person? Absolutely. Is there any of this longing and, you know, desperately wanting to connect back with them or falling susceptible to a Hoover? No, not really. Because in a healthy breakup, you guys talk it through, you realize you’re not meant to be and you let each other go, you are released to the wild to go find your happiness or whatever. And there’s no, there’s no recriminations. There’s no nastiness, there’s no it’s just hey, it didn’t work out. It didn’t work out, believe it or not, there are some divorces that go like that. Which are few and far between. But yeah, that does happen when somebody is healthy.

With an abuser, however, they are all ego, it can never be their fault. And if you throw kids into the mix, this makes it really hard to heal because they are constantly, you’re constantly seeing them. They’re constantly coming back into your life. They’re constantly, you know, there right. Okay, let’s say there’s no kids, okay? And again, the whole key is, is they’re always they’re always they’re always there, right? If there are no kids, do you want to know where they are? Right up here in your head. So, with an abuser, when they finally discard us, or we leave, or they leave, or whatever, because of the cognitive dissonance because of all the gaslighting because of all the lying, because of all the manipulation because of all the things that they do. We ruminate, oh, Lord, do we ruminate? You know, we’ll Okay, well, if I had done this, and if I had said that, or, you know, if I just twisted myself into this pretzel, then maybe they’d still be…. no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you cannot fix them. You cannot fix them because you did not break them. And because of the codependency we have a tendency to ruminate and roil that over and over and over in our head. Like, whoa, what about this? What about that? And what if I said this? Or what if I did this differently? Or what if I gave up my job or whatever? Mm hmm. Danger, danger, danger, danger, Will Robinson Danger, danger, you know, ah, don’t do that.

So, then you throw the complicated grief on top of that. So, oh, Lord, there’s so much going on in recovery here because there’s so much going on in the abuse. So, it’s really important to get with a good trauma therapist, I cannot stress that enough. Get with a good trauma therapist, trauma therapist, because they need to understand the whole PTSD, CPTSD thing you have been gaslit you have been lied to. And that’s why it’s making it hard because that little kid inside of you wants to believe them, and wants to believe that you are the answer that you can love them into health. And you can’t, you can’t I wish you could, but you can’t.

So let’s talk about complicated grief. complicated grief is finally took them long enough Welcome to the 21st century, being recognized by the DSM group, okay, so complicated grief is where it goes on for a longer amount of time than with a quote unquote, normal grief. So let’s define this shall we? Normal grief, the most intense, the most intense part of the grieving process is in that first year, because you have to get through all of the firsts. So, if you’ve got your abuser living up here, rent free in your head, it’s really hard, even after all of the firsts are gone, because that person is the first thing on your mind in the morning and the last thing on your mind at night.

Kris Godinez  18:52

So, in healthy grief, in the most intense part, it’s a year getting through all the firsts. So that first year you have to get through the new normal, right? You know, this person is gone, right? In the second year, it’s okay, now what? Okay, I’ve gotten through all the first I’m going to have to come up with a new way of doing all of the holidays or thinking about what happened or whatever. And hopefully in this second year, you’re working on the abuse, you’re working with a trauma therapist with the grief and the abuse so that you kick them out of your head so that they’re not the first thing on your mind first thing in the morning last thing at night. The third year then kind of becomes unhealthy grief becomes the new normal. This is this is the way it’s going to be this is the way I’m going to do things. They’re starting to become a distant memory right or not a distant memory but it’s not that intense grief.

Okay. Because of the abuse because of the codependency because of the way that they treated us. We have a tendency to Keep bringing them back up. So we keep bringing them back up, we keep bringing them back up, we keep bringing them back up. And that keeps stimulating all the things in our brain, right? That create the thought of continuing to think about them, it’s a way of keeping them close without actually having to be with them. I know, it’s weird, but that’s what we do. And we do that in normal grief, too. You know, when somebody dies, we start you know, oh, hey, this was their favorite food, or, Hey, this was something they did that they really liked. And it’s a way to keep them relevant or up here and current and close to us, right. So it’s kind of the same thing with complicated grief. But it’s an unhealthy it’s a maladaptive way of fixing the person. So you know, so for me with my dad, I realized, thank God through my good therapists, that I was angry at my dad and I continued to stay angry at my dad as a way to continue to try to fix it, because the little kid inside of me was like, dammit, I’m going to fix this. I’m going to make it right. I’m going to end and then and then and then Okay, thank you little when you can’t. So it’s really important to work on the inner child workbook, either by Katherine Taylor, or by Luccia Capachione. It’s really important to get CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker, it’s really important to go through the grief and acknowledge it. But don’t make it pretty, is what I’m trying to say. Because a lot of people kind of minimize the abuse, a lot of people kind of, oh, it wasn’t that bad or key? Look at all the great things about them when they were love bombing. So you definitely want to write things out. This is where writing it out is going to help you. So when your brain starts taking that lovely little trip down memory lane and going but, they were wonderful. Okay, they were wonderful in the love bombing phase. How was it afterwards? How did they treat you how, when they revealed themselves for who they were, what happened, you know, write all of that out, it takes a long time to punt them out of our heads. Because of the nature of the come here, go away, come here, go away, come here, go away. The gaslighting the rewriting history, the literally taking an egg beater to your brain and up is down black is white, green is yellow. Everything else, you know what I’m saying? So, it’s the cognitive dissonance, it’s all of this stuff. Plus the fact our inner child is trying to fix it, especially if they reminded us of a family member. So you got to work with that inner child and be like, Nope, we’re not going to think about them. So it takes longer to get over them because there is more damage than if it were a healthy breakup, which does exist.

So, what to do if the first thing that happens is they pop into your head, you’re going to have to do thought stopping you seriously are. So, for example, after my dad, and after I realized what I was doing, you know, and I would start to get angry or I’d start thinking about it. I’d have to be like, Oh, hi, dude. Guess what? No, no, y’all are dead. Y’all are dead by go buh bye. Bye. Bye now. Bye bye.

Kris Godinez  23:21

So in that case, he was already dead. Now for somebody who is alive. When they pop up. You have to acknowledge it. Yeah, I hear you. And I see you and you are irrelevant. You have nothing to do with my life. And I don’t want you to have anything to do with my life. My life, even though the inner child might be going. But you have to go… honey, no, they are not healthy for us send them on their way. So you have to kind of remind yourself what did they do? What how did they treat you? You know, and this is why it’s so hard to let go because we’re empaths. And we’re, you know, we were also codependent and we want to heal them. We want to fix them. We want to fix whatever happened in the family of origin. We want to do all of that.

So it takes a long time to get over it. It three years is what I say. Because it’s like, with a healthy breakup, I would say probably a year because it’s kind of like it was healthy. You guys left on amicable terms. You came to grips with it, everything’s good. With an unhealthy breakup, they lie they tell you it was all you they lie to you about who you are. And that inner child is just taken hits like nobody’s business. And so the inner child was like But, but, but… you know, wanting to fix that wanting to express that wanting to heal it wanting to work it through, etc. That’s why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist. You don’t need to be fixing it with them. Fixing it with the abuser is never going to work. So that’s the reason why you’re not over them yet. So in the first year, it’s going to be okay, they’re not here. We’ve broken up. Oh my gosh, they’re hoovering me. Wow. Leave me alone so I can heal, you jerk. You know what I’m saying? And then the second year is like, Okay, now I’m going to create new traditions and I’m doing all of that third year is going to be making sure that when they pop up, you’re just sending them on their way they are irrelevant to your life, they are never going to change. And I suspect that that’s part of what makes it so difficult. Because we want them to change. We want them to be healthy, we want them to love and to feel and to be quote unquote, normal, you know, and to not be jerks, basically. So yeah, you’re going to have a harder time letting go.

So this is where detachment is hugely important. Radical Acceptence Tara Brach, Radical Forgiveness for yourself and that’s by Colin Tipping radical, radical, Radical Self Forgiveness by Tom Collins having radical forgiveness for the self, because we tend to blame ourselves. So yeah, healthy, healthy grief is a lifetime process. You know, I still miss my grandmother’s, not plural. One, I missed one of them. The other one can go pound sand. But you know, my grandmother, I miss her a lot. You know, she was awesome. And I think about it, I don’t tear up like I used to, because it’s been a long time. But you know, Grief is a lifelong process. And yeah, every once in a while, that person will pop in your head. But when they do, you have got to send them on their way. You don’t need to invite that thought in for coffee. You don’t need to play with it. You don’t need to do the what ifs are the if only’s. So that’s another reason why the grief is harder to let go getting over them. It’s harder to let go because we do the what if, if onlys? Well, if only they were saying if only the god help if only they were, you know, willing to work on themselves. If only they were you know, I did the same thing with my dad when he died. So, um, yeah, so Okay. All right. How are we doing on time we are doing good.

So let’s just recap here. It is harder, it is not impossible. When the abuser pops up into your head and you want to start ruminating about it. You acknowledge the thought, Thank you. I hear you. I see you. I am not playing. We are done here. You’re out of my life. Buh bye. Another thing that you can do is you can go they weren’t real because they weren’t because this whole you know, mirroring stuff that wasn’t real. They were in illusion. It was the fantasy bond. Oh, there’s my favorite fantasy. Wow, that’s awesome.

Kris Godinez  27:29

Thank you for playing favorite fantasy. You know what, you weren’t real. I am not wasting one more second on you. Goodbye, go pound sand write when you get work. Buh bye now, buh bye. Do you see where I’m going with that? It’s like the thoughts are going to happen, but you don’t have to invite them in. And another good thing to do is to work on self esteem. Remind yourself of your worth, remind yourself that you did not deserve any of the lies, any of the discard or the devalue or the nastiness, or the gaslighting or the rewriting history or the cheating or the stealing or any of that. So Self Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Fabulous book. The other thing is write them a goodbye letter, like a goodbye letter like goodbye. So the good, if there was any there may not have been but if there was okay the love bombing phase Wow. In the beginning, you made it sound like you liked everything I liked and that we were the perfect match. And this, that, and the other thing, the bad, your masks started to slip, and you started to get hyper critical of everything I said and did and the ugly the devalue and the discard. And then you started calling me names and then you started cheating. And then you started stealing and then you started rewriting history. And then you started a smear campaign and then you started you know, do you see where I’m going? It’s like you kind of got to go through all of that. And at the very, very end, you take your power back. Okay, you know what? I grieve the loss of this illusion. That’s what I miss. That’s what I wish was still here. I do not miss all of this. And in fact, all of this is who your abusers really are. So you know what? You can just go pound sand mother Clucker you know what I’m saying? Not my coop, not my poop. It’s up to you, buddy. This is all your stuff. Not mine. Goodbye, buh bye now I’m by taking my power back, get out of my head.

Kris Godinez  29:27

I’m raising the rent. You’re not allowed here. I’m filing a restraining order with the angels. You know what I’m saying? And you just put them out in that letter, trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once. Burn it, let it go. That’s going to help your brain kind of go. Oh, okay, this is done. We’re Yeah, we’re done. Yeah, period on that sentence, okay. Because you’re never going to get closure from them. And that’s part of the reason why it takes so long because there’s never that. You know, thank you for this relationship. It just didn’t work out, you know, I wish you well, there’s never any of that ever, ever, it’s not real if they do so because then they come back and start recriminations and everything else. So basically what it is you write the goodbye letter, you make sure that they’re evicted from your head. You trout it out to the barbecue, you burn it. And you do that as many times as you need to until it kind of clicks. I wasn’t in love with the real person, I was in love with the illusion. Wow. And the illusion was amazing. They did a great job of mirroring. Which is why I keep saying, Can you guys see how amazing you are? Seriously, they mirrored the best of you back to you. So you kind of fell in love with yourself in a way they were just pretending to have the same qualities that you did. So Wow, dude, you know, you showed me the best of me. And I fell in love with that. And that’s who I am. That’s not who you are. So the real you is the one that did all these horrible things. So go pound sand and have fun with that. Buh bye. So that’s what you’re going to do. And that’s why it makes it hard because you have to really allow yourself to see you fell in love with the mirroring of you back to you. It was an illusion. They were not that. You’re that! You’re awesome! They’re not. So okay. I think that should cover that.

So that is why it is so hard to get over them because we’re dealing with all of these multifaceted things going on in our brain, cognitive dissonance, the devalue, the discard, the shock of the mask slipping, you know, all of this stuff going on. So all right. I think that’s it. So I hope that answered your question. That is why it takes so long to get over them because there’s so many, there are so many things going on psychologically, you know, your your inner child got triggered. They lied. They cheated. They stole they gaslit, they rewrote history, they messed with your mind cognitive dissonance. You know, up is down. Black is white, green is yellow, you know, and that messes with you. And grief is hard. Anyway, you know, the first two years suck for any grief, any grief. But with complicated grief. It can be three to five years trying to work stuff through. So that’s why I’m saying get with a good trauma therapist. Start doing the books that I recommend. Start really cutting yourself some slack. This is an abnormal situation Healthy People don’t act like this. Healthy People don’t seek to destroy others. So there it is. Alright, let’s get to the questions.

Oh, actually, one thing I did want to read Psychology Today, what everyone should know about prolonged grief. Okay, so it’s finally they’re being accepted by the DSM. So prolonged grief is where it’s super intense, overwhelming. And that’s how we feel. They finally gave a formal diagnosis on the DSM, which is good. So, getting a proper diagnosis helps psychotherapy, obviously somebody who specializes in PTSD and bereavement, trauma, trauma therapist, they say medication, I’m going to say no on that. So, I honestly feel… it bothers me because in our country, it seems like grief is treated as if it’s abnormal. Have you ever noticed that? So, when I was working at the grief clinic in Scottsdale, the new song center, we literally had a person whose son died son, child, you know, and her employer after a week was telling her to stop crying. I’m like, okay, narcissist, jerk.

Kris Godinez  33:35

You know, I mean, so our relationship to grieving and death in this country is really screwed up. So it’s really important to allow yourself to grieve because you are grieving the loss of the illusion of the person you thought they were, as opposed to who they really were. So, allow yourself to grieve that loss, they were mirroring you back to you and that person was great, but the real them was not. So, Robert Firestone the fantasy bond, great book highly recommend it! That’s going to help with the grieving process. Connection can, feeling it can leave you feeling detached from other people and especially if you’ve got Flying Monkeys doing their thing find your support group, find the people who are going to support you and understand grief if anyone in your circle does the whole Oh, it’s been a year get over it you kick their hinny to the curb. Absolutely and go no contact because they’ve just shown you who they are. So, in especially if after you’ve educated them about what grief really is grief is lifelong grief is life long, but the most intense is the first year so if they’re like you know Oh, you need to get over it. You need to go suck something like an egg. Okay, thank you. So, kick them out. Kick him out, kick them out. Kick them out. Kick him out. Boy, I wish I could swear I can’t but you know what I was saying! So anyway, Okay, um, all right. And then this one says, Remember, it’s what this is for normal, intense grief, you know that you want to have something to honor them with. In this case, you want to have something to remind yourself, that they lied to you that they were not real, that what you loved was an illusion that that that this thing that you fell in love with was mirroring you back to you, and who they really were, is all of the horrible things they did to you. So, you need to write that stuff out. You need to allow yourself to grieve, and it’s going to be a lot of crying, and it’s going to be a lot of anger, because you got hurt. Remember, anger is not a pure emotion. Love is love. Lust is lust, happy, happy, sad is sad. Anger is driven by the fear of being hurt all the vulnerable emotions, it’s the bodyguard of those. So, allow yourself to… Yeah, you’re going to get angry, but then connect with what’s underneath it. And what’s underneath it is usually the betrayal. So, there it is. And that’s why you’re not over them yet. That’s why they ruminate in your head. That’s why they run around in your head. That’s why you think about them all the time. Because it’s an abnormal situation. And because it’s hard for the internal child, the inner child to reconcile that you didn’t love them, you loved the illusion. So that’s what you’re going to work on. So there it is. Oh, that was a big topic.

All right, let’s dive into the questions. Let me make this bigger. Because there we go. Is it common for narcissists to hound down their targets when they go no contact? Oh, yes. Let me answer this part of it first, and then I’ll answer the second half of it. So, when you are dealing with an abuser who is a dark triad, which means narcissistic, psychopath, Machiavellian, control freak, they are the ones who stalk and they are dangerous. They are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, like cuckoo, cuckoo, like crazy, like totally professional term cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They… I mean, they are just, yeah, because they’re all ego, okay. And they’re also antisocial, meaning the laws don’t apply to them in their head, they truly feel like they can do whatever they want. And they’re smarter than the cops, and they’re smarter than you. And they’re smarter than everybody. And I’m going to get you, you hurt my ego, I’m going to get you. And so they stalk. They cyberstalk, they physically stalk, they, they’re the ones that gather the flying monkeys, do the smear campaign, try to harass and make your life miserable. If you have one of those, you are going to get a restraining order. Okay, first of all, you’re going to document everything, document everything, all the cyber stalking all the physical stalking, get witnesses, you’re going to go to your local court, you’re going to file a restraining order, okay, or an order of protection. It’s called different things in different states. So here in Arizona, if it’s not a marriage thing, it’s an order of protection.

Kris Godinez  37:57

If it’s just a stranger, you know, you’re not related to them, no marriage, blah, blah, blah, you have all your evidence with you, you’re going to fill out the form, you’re to hand back into the clerk, they’re going to take you up to the courtroom, you’re going to get it that day. So it is, in some cases, harder to get a restraining order. But if you have a whole bunch of evidence, like their cyber stalking, here’s, here’s this note, here’s that note, here’s what they’ve said in this email, blah, blah, blah, most judges are going to be like, granted, we’re done. Then what you’re going to do is you’re going to take it to a process server, and you’re going to pay them I think it was like 80 or $100 to have it done. You’re going to pay them and you’re going to give them all of the information they need to find them and serve them. So once they’ve been served, you’ll get a notice back that they’ve been served. What a lot of these creeps do is they think they’re smarter than the judges. They think they’re smarter than the attorneys. They think they’re smarter than you. They’ll try to fight the order protection. Now. Here’s something that drives me crazy when people don’t listen to me. Do not contact them. Do not respond to them. Okay, once you do, you’ve broken the order of protection. And you’ve shown that you’re not that afraid of them and the judge will have a really hard time reinstating in order protection and then they’ve got the evidence they need that you’re not serious. Do you understand where I’m going with that? Now remember, I’m not an attorney. But this is basically what I’ve seen over and over again, where the target of abuse gets hoovered falls for it contacts them. Nobody’s going to believe you if you keep saying that they’re harassing you, if you continue to contact them, you’ve got to go no contact, it’s got to be no contact. You get the order of protection, and then you report them to the police. Now, this is where it gets sticky. Some police officers clearly don’t know the frickin law, because I’ve had some of them be like, Oh, well you know, I’m not going to or not file a report… you go over their head, you leave footprints on their scalp, you asked for somebody higher up and you get it filed. If they have broken the order of protection, if they have contacted you in any way, shape or form if they have come closer than 500 feet to you, if that’s what it is in the, in the order of protection, you call the police every single freaking time and do not take no for an answer from some of these Jack wagons that are on the police force. Because remember, narcissists are attracted to positions of power, and some of them are police officers, you know what I’m saying? So, okay, you’re going to call every single freaking time. Okay. I’m sorry, I totally forgot what I was doing.

Do they hound down their targets after no contact? Yes. Because their egos cannot stand it that you’ve gotten away that you’re not playing. Because remember, when a narcissist has a favorite target, that’s their favorite target. And then if the favorite target goes away, well, now they’ve got to find another supply. If you’re not responding, you’re not playing the game. They’re not getting the narcissistic supply. So yes, they will hound and hound, and hound, and hound and hound, hoping that you’re going to respond back to them do not! Get evidence of all the hounding. Get evidence of all the phone calls, get evidence of all the text messages or emails take them to the court, get an order of protection. And then follow up with calling the police every single time and demand that they write it down. There you go.

So there’s that. Okay, let me get the second half of this. I went no contact with a narcissistic family and didn’t feel any guilt at all. But they wouldn’t even let me get over them. Yes, that is exactly it. Because here’s the thing, what narcissists will say, and I have heard them say this, love me or hate me, just don’t ignore me. My dad used to say that all the damn time. So yeah, love me or hate me, just don’t ignore me. And so when somebody goes no contact, it drives them crazy. So, you just keep no contact, block, ignore block, ignore, block, ignore. Get all the evidence together, restraining order boom done. Will they continue to do that after the restraining order? Yeah, I had one that was completely insane. That continued to try to contact through family members and this that and the other thing. And I finally had to be like, you realize that every single person you’re getting to act on your behalf is going to go to jail. Right? It stopped. So, but do you see where I’m going with that? So it’s, yeah, they’re cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. So yeah, they need the narcissistic supply like the rest of us need oxygen.

My difficult husband is really trying not to rage be generous and nice. But I’m feeling an angsty energy from him today. How do I know if it’s him or me?

Kris Godinez  42:50

People are moody including me. Okay, so here’s the thing. Raging is not normal. Raging is not normal, normal, healthy people Do not rage. Do they get angry? Yeah, for sure. You know, but when you’re angry, you name what you’re angry about. It’s not the you, you guns, and it’s not this crazy. Over the top raging, throwing things, etc, etc, etc. So angsty energy. Okay, well, I don’t know, because I’m not you and I’m not your husband. Could it be coming from him? Maybe could it be coming from you? Probably. Why? Because if things are calm, with somebody who rages, we sit there and we wait for the other shoe to drop. We do because that’s what we’re used to. And so we’re waiting for the catastrophe. So um, I strongly suggest that you start working on self-esteem and boundaries, boundaries with the disease to please by Harriet Braiker. The self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi. Take very good care of yourself write things out. You know, if this person has just got fleas, okay. Like they had family that, you know, did this kind of thing. And they’re working on it. And they’re not raging. Okay, that’s great. And they’re continuing to grow. That’s great. But actions speak louder than words. So if they go for a period of time, and they’re good, and all of a sudden, they explode, and then they go for a period of time and they’re good, and they all of a sudden explode. They’re showing you who they are, believe them the first time. So is it normal to be angsty or anxious when somebody is changing behavior? Yeah, it is. But again, look to the actions look to the consistency how constant are they in their behavior? So there it is, okay. Um, okay.

When terrible things abusers used to say to us keep reoccurring in our minds. Could that be part of the grieving or sign of missing them? Well, it could be but it’s also I think, the inner child. So when a kid gets accused of something that they did not do. They are like, it’s not fair. But this is not true. So it’s probably the inner child. So I would look to, did this happen in your family of origin? Does this spark something for when you were a little kid? Were you unjustly accused of things? Or were you told things about yourself that were not true? And who does this really belong to?

Kris Godinez  45:34

So again, at that point, the horrible things that they said, and they do, they say, some of the most vile, nasty, you kiss your mother with that mouth, you know what I’m saying? I mean, they just they say some of the horrible, most horrible things ever, and they’re intended to hurt. So when those pop back up in your mind, you’re going to challenge them, you’re going to write a go screw you letter, go pound sand letter, a go pound sand letter to the abuser. And you’re going to write it out. Hey, you said this to me. Guess who you we’re really talking about yourself, Mother Clucker. You see where I’m going with that? Because that’s usually what it is. Oh, my God. They are. narcissists are insane number one. But number two, every nasty, vile thing they say about you is really about them. Seriously, I’m not kidding you. They all accuse their target of abuse, of cheating. But the target of abuse isn’t cheating. They’re the cheater. They’ll accuse the target of abuse of being ugly and horrible and, and vicious. And this that and the other thing well, but it’s not the target of abuse, It’s the abuser. So remember, they project. So every rotten thing that they’ve ever said is really about them, put it back to them. Chapter three CPTSD from surviving to thriving by Pete Walker, put it back to them. It’s not yours, that nasty thing that they said to you, that was about them. They’re talking about themselves. Normal people do not seek to harm hurt or destroy. Let me be clear about that. Normal people do not seek to harm hurt or destroy it is not their desire or want or need or intention. With abusers they have to, because it’s the ego, it’s the ego. They’re 100% ego and all they want to do is hurt. Because they are just horrible human beings. And they want everyone else to feel as crappy as they do. So when those thoughts pop up, write them out, hand them back, guess what mother clucker this was your thought, Oh, I’m a horrible person. Well, let’s talk about what you’ve done. Shall we? Do not send it! Trot it out to the barbecue. Read it out loud once burn it, let it go. Yep, best thing you can do for these Jack wagons. Never think of them again. live your best life. Go have fun. Love yourself. So the polar opposite of whatever they said. You reaffirm to yourself who you really are. Mirror work. Hi, good to see you. Have a great day. You know what? You are enough! You know what? You are beautiful! You know what? You are kind! You know what? You… so everything they said, you reinforce what is really true. Because every nasty and negative. They’re talking about themselves. Put a write back to them because it’s not yours. You put that luggage back on the carousel, it’s not yours. Put it back. So hand it back off to them. Okay, let’s see. Um, okay. And I do think that’s part of the inner child. I think it’s that but it’s not true. So hand it back to them. It’s not in there. And here’s the thing, guys, I sometimes have people wanting to contact them to tell them all this stuff. Don’t! You would have a deeper conversation with my screen thing back here than you would with a narcissist. They are never, you are not going to get closure from them. It doesn’t exist not with them. You’re not going to get what you’re looking for. You’re not, so the closure you have to get is within you seriously. So that’s why I’m saying write and burn. Do not send this to them. All you’re doing is handing them more ammunition. My dad and his first wife sent nasty letters back and forth to each other for 45 years. The day the week he died, he got one from them. And they were constantly recriminations and throwing things back and you did this and you did that and done it at it. Do you think that ever solved anything? No. No, all it did was give them ammunition to keep it going because it was all ego. All ego. So what you’re going to do is you’re going to write it out, hand it back to them. Hey, that’s not who I am. I know who I am and who I am is good enough. Beautiful. I don’t need to be perfect. I just need to be good enough. I’m aiming for the middle road and I’m going to live my best life. Go pound sand, bye, bye now, buh bye. Do you see where I’m going with that? And then do the mirror work to reinforce who you really are. Because who you really are is not what they told you. So there is that! Okay.

My ex-girlfriend told me that she would be the only one who would ever be together with me and that nobody else would be with me. Oh my gosh. Is that normal for abuse? By the way I left. Oh Lordy. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. So what, this is another thing they say is we’re breaking up with them, especially if we leave them that no one will ever love you. No one would ever put up with you. You’ll never find anybody else like me will good! I hope so. Because you’re a jerk. You know what I’m saying? They do that they absolutely 110% No one will ever love you, you’ll never be with anyone else.

Kris Godinez  50:24

You know, I’m the penultimate, you know, you’re never going to find anybody. They’re talking about themselves again. Here’s the deal, guys. Unless the abuser can find somebody who is so low in their self-esteem that they’re never going to leave. Okay? They eventually get alone, the abusers, old age homes are filled with them. I’ve told these stories on 1000 times, they’re filled with collapse narcissist. And that’s going to be a topic in September that I’m going to talk about as a collapsed narcissists. So they’re the ones that are going to be alone. They’re the ones who are not going to find anybody. They are the ones that are going to be miserable, and nobody’s going to love them. Because by the time they hit middle age or older, everybody is done with their crap. Like seriously, children, family, friends, they’re done. They’re done. It’s like, I’m sick of the drama. I’m sick of the chaos. I’m sick of the lies, wer’e done. And they ended up alone. They do. And so they’re talking. They’re predicting their own fate is what they’re doing. And again, they’re projecting because that’s their worst fear. They can’t deal with it. They can’t cope with it. So they’re going to project it onto you. And in their little head. They’re like, Ah, you’re going to be alone. Well, no, the abuser is going to be allowed. Nobody’s going to put up with them. When they reach a certain point in their life when their looks are gone. And the money is gone. And they can’t control and manipulate anymore. Nope, sorry. Nobody’s going to put up with you. You are irrelevant. fun with that. And the ego can’t handle that. So that’s why they say things like that. So don’t worry, you’re fine. Go live your best life, work on self-esteem. Work on self-esteem. And by the way, kudos for getting out of that relationship, because it is hard. Not impossible. But it is hard and do not believe any of the nasty things that they said because they’re just trying, they’re throwing spaghetti at the wall to try to see what’s going to stick basically. So there that is okay. Let’s see, how are we doing on time? Oh, we’re doing good. Um, okay. Yes, that is very common with abusers. And yeah, they, especially the grandiose ones, because they can’t, especially if you left because it’s like they can’t conceive of somebody figuring them out because they think they’re smarter than everybody else. And they also cannot conceive of somebody leaving them because they think they’re smarter than everyone else and that they can manipulate and this and the other thing, so they throw everything they can so yeah, absolutely.

The self-esteem workbook. I’m stuck a chapter states that all humans are good at the core. I do not agree. I have a very pessimistic view of humans as a whole. How can I complete this book? Okay. Look at babies. Look at babies, puppies, babies, kittens. We do not pop out of the womb, dictators are nasty, or vicious or horrible or awful or terrible, or angst-filled or anxious or depressed or anything else. Unfortunately, adults are the ones that do that to us. So, realize I’m coming from a Buddhist perspective, you know, practicing Buddhist practicing Christian and Buddhist philosophy is my thing. So our core is goodness, right? At the core of psychopaths and narcissists, probably not, but also realize, psychopaths and narcissists generally don’t seek to improve themselves. Psychopaths and narcissists only go to therapy, if they’re looking to manipulate, control or doing it for a court reason or whatever. If you are doing the self-esteem workbook to improve yourself and to make yourself a better human being, congratulations, you have worth at your core. So gentle with you. Pessimism is a defense mechanism that helps when we are in a horrible situation.

Kris Godinez  54:26

So if we expect the worst and it happens then we’re not disappointed, basically, but it doesn’t work when we are away from that family of origin or out of that abuse and we’re trying to heal. So you don’t want toxic positivity, either. Balance, everything is balanced, everything is balanced, everything is balanced. So come back to the idea that you have worth. If you are bettering yourself, you have worth narcissists and psychopaths, like I said they They’re not really interested in healing, they’re not really interested in changing, they’re not really interested in growing, they have no desire to better themselves, they have no desire to relinquish control, and they’ll never change. And that’s why because they’re unwilling to get vulnerable. They’re unwilling to let go of the ego. They’re unwilling to have empathy or sympathy or anything else connecting truly to another human being. So yeah, people generally have to be taught to be complete, Jack wagons, now then again, we come back to the nature nurture, nature, nurture, nature, nurture. I firmly believe, though, that with the dark triads and the full-blown Narcissus, they’re missing a cog, there’s something wrong, there’s something not there. You know, they don’t love the way we love. They don’t feel the way we feel they don’t express or feel emotions the same way. So, yeah, get rid of the pessimism. It’s served you in the past. So, thank it, you know, here’s the thing, all of our maladaptive behaviors at some point in time helped us they did some point in time, they helped us. But now that we’re getting healthy, they’re not working anymore. So thank the pessimism, don’t hate it. Just thank you pessimism, I see how you help me in the past. And now I’m having to let you go because this is no longer working for me. So I get to see my worth, I get to have a glimmer of hope. I get to like myself, and hopefully eventually love myself. I get to, so work on that.

All right, my love’s we are just about out of time. I think that was the last question. Yes, it was. So remember, if you are watching Social Media, and it is making you feel like doodoo, stop watching it and realize they’re showing you exactly what they want you to see. So don’t compare yourself. Remember, comparison is something that narcissists teach us is that we’re always in competition. And we’re always comparing so don’t compare yourself. So in healing from an abusive relationship, yeah, you’re not over them because of all of the things that they have done. Because of all of the manipulation, all of the eggbeater in your head going with the cognitive dissonance and the devaluing the discard and the love bombing and the you know, and falling in love with the potential so do read the Fantasy Bond by Robert Firestone, and Self-Esteem Workbook by Glenn Schiradi, The Disease to Please by Harriet Braiker. Okay, my love’s Have a great week and I will talk to you next week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. Ph.D. level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

You’ve been listening to the podcast version of We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez.

The post 08-21-2022 Why Aren’t I Over Them? appeared first on Kris Godinez.

Hello and welcome to We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez podcast. I’m your host Kris Godinez, licensed professional counselor. I help people get out of, and stay out of, toxic relationships. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only the views and opinions stated herein are mine and mine alone. They do not represent the ACA, the APA or any other therapist for that matter.

I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

Hello, Kris Godinez licensed professional counselor and also the host of We Need to Talk on every Sunday at noon.  Susanna and I are working on doing a seminar it is not firmed up. She wants to do it in August, like next week, week after it’s going to be online. So as soon as I get that information, and as soon as that’s live and ready to go, I will let you guys know and it’s basically going to be how do you heal after the abuse? What do you need to do? You know, what are the what are the steps? What do you need to do? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So she and I are going to be she’s going to be handling what she you know what she learned from her life. And I’m going to be teaching you guys more stuff about how to heal after leaving the abuse. So anyway, as soon as I get the information on that we will definitely  I will definitely put that all out and let you guys know, all right. So okay, sorry. I’m a little scattered. jetlag number one. Number two house is a mess. Oh my god. Anyway, number three. Hi, how are you? So?

Alright, so today’s topic is being in the spotlight slash accepting compliments. So, All right. A lot of people have the spotlight effect and it is a real effect. But, the spotlight effect seems to be more prevalent among people who have been abused. Why? Well, okay, so first of all, what is the spotlight effect? So, the spotlight effect is you go out in public and you think everyone is looking at you and you think everyone is watching you and you think everyone is judging you. Okay. I think a lot of people have that. But I think it’s more prevalent among people that were raised by narcissists. Why? Well, because when we’re raised by a narcissist, what do they do all the time? Judge, judge, judge look at you look at you look your age, you know, it’s all your fault, this, that and the other thing. So, we tend to think that other people because that’s been our experience that other people are always just are always looking at us or always commenting on us. So, I have a couple of really good Psychology Today articles one was the spotlight effect.

The spotlight effect refers to the tendency to think that more people notice something about you than they do dozens of studies, dozens of studies in social psychology have supported the funnel phenomenon. In one test, some students wore bright yellow Barry Manilow T shirts to an introductory psychology class. I’m thinking to myself those students are probably like who’s Barry Manilow? They had been okay, they then had the costume Where’s estimate how many people in class they thought noticed it was greatly overestimate. So, what explains the spotlight effect? Basically, it is the result of egocentrism, which makes sense because if you’re raised by a narcissist, it is literally all about them. And so we learn it’s a flea. It’s a flea guys, it’s a flea it’s learned behavior, so we got to squish it. So okay, we are all the center of our own universes, which is true narcissists. More so this is not to say we are arrogant or value ourselves more than others, narcissists do but again, this is a flea we picked up from them. Rather our entire existence is from our own experience and perspective, which makes total sense why so many people have this because there’s 35 to 45% people out there disordered. So, all right, we use those experiences to evaluate the world around us, including other people, but other people not only lack knowledge of for instance, the stain that you have on your shirt, but they are the center of their own universes too and in turn are focused on their own things.

So and if you have a healthy, parenting situation, you know, because your parent is not always judging, right? And they’re not always narcissistic and whatever. And so you know that other people are busy with their own lives and not paying attention. And you know, that whole thing. Okay, back to this article.

Hold on naive realism and bias blind spots also contribute to this, for instance, people typically do not perceive themselves as biased, we don’t. They tend to assume that they are focusing what they are focusing on, is accurate and objective. And generally, it’s not in that case, in turn, they believe that most other people should notice what they are focusing in on. So, in other words, if you are focusing in on, oh my gosh, I have the stain on my shirt. Oh my gosh, everybody’s going to notice it. Because you’re biased that you’re focusing in on that you’re assuming, which, assuming makes an ass out of you and me that everyone else is also focusing in on this stain. They’re not, they’re not guaranteed they are not. Because they’re so busy with their own lives. They’re not even noticing. And if they noticed that it’s kind of like, okay, I got a stain. So does almost everybody in the world goes out and eats out, you know, so, specially if you’re kind of slobs like me and John, like, oh, you know, so if we focus in on something, it’s just it’s the same thing. If we focus in on an imperfection on our face, you know, we’ll go oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, everybody’s going to be looking at this pimple that I have on my cheek? No, they’re not. They’re you’re focused on it, but not everybody else is.

So, when you’re dealing with the hyper focusing, and the oh my gosh, everybody’s looking at me. You’re going to have to do thought stopping. Like, seriously. So that thought pops up. Oh, my gosh, everybody’s looking at me. Everybody sees the stain on my shirt. Everybody sees the pimple on my cheek. Oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. First of all, it’s not an arm, it’s not a leg, nobody’s dying, doesn’t matter. So you have a stain on your shirt. So what if they’re going to judge you for that? You don’t want them in your life. Anyway, seriously. Same thing with the pimple. It’s like it’s a pimple pimples happen. stains on shirts happen. Apparently, Barry Manilow shirts happen as well. So you know, you just you can’t, you cannot allow that thought start doing the rumination and start just circling the drain. So that… it’s preventing you from enjoying your life. And that’s what it does.

So, think of it as a continuation of the abuse. It’s a continuation of the abuser going and you you, you look at that! You’re this You’re that! You, you, you, you guns going off, right? You got to be able to go okay, there’s that thought and? Yeah, I got a stain. And so what? So there’s a stain on my shirt. So what? I have never in my 57 years, had somebody walk up to me and go, Oh my gosh, you’ve got a stain on your shirt. Never, never, never, ever. And if a stranger did, I’d be like, Yeah, I do. Thank you for pointing it out, I’ll make sure and put some spray and wash on it. You know, you don’t allow other people to judge you. You just don’t. We did when we were kids, because we couldn’t get away from the narcissistic parent, whether that was male or female. But now that we’re an adult, you know, it’s like, okay, thanks. And? You know, and you go on with your life. I’ve never had anybody do that. Because generally the only people that would ever do something like that are cuckoo, because you would never walk up to a total stranger and be like, you’ve got to stain your shirt, you know, or you’ve got acne, you know, it’s like, who does that? Nobody, like literally nobody unless they’re disordered. And if they do that you know they’re disordered, you move away from them. And you do not take it personally.

I think that’s what a lot of us struggle with in the beginning, when we leave an abusive family or we leave an abusive relationship is that we’ve learned behavior. We’ve learned to take all of this stuff. Uber, personally, like, like we’re on the alert, we’re on hyper alert for attacks, right? And that’s part of the being in the spotlight thing. So, because we’re looking, we’re waiting for an attack, we’re waiting for somebody to come up and say something, we’re waiting for some we’re waiting for the shoe to drop, basically. And it’s because of the way we were raised. It’s because of the judgment that we had nonstop from mom, dad, grandparents, teachers, whatever. And so we’re hyper focused on oh my god, oh, my God. Oh, my God, are they… do they see this? They’re looking at me.

So the extreme of that becomes agoraphobia. It does because we’re terrified of leaving the house. So basically, the way I want you to look at it is the best way to give the middle finger to your abuser is to go live life. to the fullest! Stains on the shirt acne on the face and all, and just go have fun. So, when those thoughts pop up, you’re going to have to go hmm, I hear you, I see you…. who, who did that come from? Where does this judgment come from? who judged me as a kid or who judged me in this relationship that I just got out of? What is this about? Oh, it’s my ex. Oh, it’s my dad. Oh, it’s my mom. Oh, it’s you know, whoever it is fill in the blank. And then you go, I hear you. I see you. And you have absolutely no relevance in my life. Right now. I am sending you off hit the road. Jack, don’t you come back, no mo, no mo, no mo, no mo, buh bye now. Goodbye, go pound sand. Buh bye. Write when you get work, buh bye. And you let it go. Because seriously, other people are so wrapped up in their own lives. They’re not looking and this going on in our heads is a continuation of the abuse. So it’s almost like the abuser is still there. That’s that inner critic hello. So it’s almost as if the abuser is still there going, you know, you know and keeping you from living your best life. The best revenge I kid you not is live. Well please, for the love of God and all that is holy go live. Well go do things go take yourself out to lunch, go explore, go walking outside with a rip or a stain in your shirt. You know, it doesn’t matter what other people think other esteem is not self-esteem.

Okay, so the other part of being in the spotlight. And this is I think another reason why we avoid a lot of us avoid being in the spotlight being extroverts. Because number one, an extrovert that makes you an easy target for the narcissist. If you’re living at home with a narcissist and you’re an extrovert, and I know this one from firsthand. You’re an easy target, because you’re always, you know, out basically, you’re like, you know, here I am, you know, I’m doing my life, you know. And so a lot of kids tend to learn to become introverts to avoid dealing with the Narcissist. So I’ve been told a lot of times that I’m a extroverted introvert. Because I can when I need to just disappear if I have to. So it’s, you know, something to think about. It’s like, what is your true nature, and my true nature is, I do love people, and I do love getting out and meeting people, but and when I was living home with a crazy parents or two, you know, it was like, hide, be safe, you know, that kind of thing, that kind of thing. And then when you go out into public, you do think that everybody is judging you just like the abuser did, but they’re not guys, they’re not I promise.

The other aspect of the spotlight effect is that not only do we not want people to notice us because of the abuse. But if we do something extraordinary, or if we do something worthy of you know, accolades or credit or whatever, who marches in and takes credit for it. That would be the abusers. That would be the abusers. I can’t tell you the number of times, personally, and also people coming in and sitting on the couch, when I used to have an actual office instead of virtual, but you know, what I’m saying, you know, telling me, it’s like, Hey, I did this great thing, and my mom took credit for it, or my dad took credit for it, or, you know, my teacher took credit for it, or, you know, whatever. So, they do that. It’s what they do. And they do it because they must be at the center of attention all the time. You get that don’t want to be the center of attention kind of thing going because it’s like, we know that it’s just going to be taken away from us. And the credit is going to go to the abuser or, or something great.

Narcissists are so weird. So they do want to two things, they either take credit for what we’re doing, or if we do something really great, they then punish us for it. Because how dare we? How dare we be in the spotlight? How dare we do something amazing. How dare we, you know, it’s this really, it’s this dichotomy. It’s like, they’re either this, you know, I’m going to take the credit for it and claim you as my child, as long as you make me look good. Or how dare you look good. How dare you do something better than me? How dare you, you know. And so we learned very quickly, it’s like, no, thank you. I’ll just, let’s just get back over here. You know, it’s like, it’s so we have this really hard time either being in the spotlight because we know it’s going to be taken away from us or we feel like we’re going to be judged all the time. Or we’re going to be punished for it. So, it really is.

What’s the word I’m looking for? It really is. It’s because of how we were raised or what we were around. And what we used to bias. It’s stepping out of that circle of thinking it’s stepping out of that way of, you know, you’ve really got to it’s mindfulness guys. It’s mindfulness, you’ve got to check in and go, Is this the internal critic? Is this fear the internal critic, so remember, abusers would desperately love to keep us down, and never be better than them. Or they would love to literally ride on our coattails or whatever. And I talk about it in my book, what’s wrong with your dad, available on Amazon. That, you know, if I did things that made dad look great. He claimed to me as his daughter and loved me and the whole thing, but if I didn’t, he had no problem. No problem humiliating me in public. So great example is, you know, I did acting because that was my thing. And as every time I got a role, oh, I was his daughter. Oh, look at her, she’s great. Oh, she’s that she’s that. He then forced me to go to beautician school, rather than allowing me to try to figure out what I wanted to do for a living. And it took me five years to graduate college when it would have taken me four. So he told everyone how stupid I was. And I couldn’t graduate in four years when he was the one that forced me to take a year off to go through cosmetology school. That’s just what they do. They’re just evil. They’re assholes. And they’re evil. And they’re mean, and they seek to destroy, so they are intent on ruining life. In general, they don’t want you to go out, they don’t want you to have fun. They don’t want you to feel they don’t want you to love. They don’t want you to experience great joy. They don’t want you to have deep emotions, they don’t want you to cry and really grieve, they don’t want you to have any other emotion other than what they want you to have. Because they cannot feel. And so that I believe is what is going on with the spotlight thing. It’s like we’ve been conditioned. Okay, remember conditioning, right? You know, it’s like repetitive intermittent positive rewards the whole thing. And so it conditions us to either avoid the spotlight or think that we’re in the spotlight in a way all the time because of how you were raised and because of how parents or that teacher or that lover or whoever treated us during that time period.

So the first article that I was reading from was from Psychology Today. So yeah, it’s vastly overestimated it and I can attest to that, because you guys know I have a T shirt that has Freud on it, right? This is called the spotlight effect. And this is by Hatholic PhD. I have a T shirt that has frayed on it, right. And it’s, it’s the dark side of your mom. And it looks like the Dark Side of the Moon. So this one guy was like, I want Pink Floyd, bla bla bla bla bla, and he didn’t even read the t shirt. I’m just like, looking at him going, did you look at the t shirt? Because that’s not what this is about people. So yeah, they don’t, they’re not. They don’t often really catch the small details and they don’t really pay attention to other people. You know, it’s kind of a meta thing. Not a micro thing. You know what I’m saying? So, so they’re not really they’re not really they’re not really looking at us. They’re not really judging us. We think they are we feel they are how am I doing on time? I cannot see because I don’t have my glasses on. Okay, one more article. Hold on.

All right. Um, and so this is another article that I pulled up and this is on choosing therapy, and it’s by Hilary. Shafi Schaffer, Hilary Schaffer, she’s a licensed professional counselor. So um, signs that you’ve been raised by a narcissist, love was always conditional. And this is what has to do with the spotlight syndrome. Again, as I was talking about, if you make them look good, then they’ll love you. But that’s not love. Let’s be clear here. I think survivors of abuse really need to re experience every emotion and understand that narcissists do not feel a single one of them the way that healthy people do. So their idea of love is absolutely strings attached. It is absolutely conditional, and it absolutely is based on their mercurial and capricious whims. So, if they’re in a good mood and you make them look good, great if they’re in a bad mood and you’re doing something that’s making you look good, they’ll punish you for it. And it’s never the same. It’s like you can’t ever really get good footing as to what’s going to set them off. So, you know, it’s like I said, you could walk in and say, Good morning, and they’ll come unglued. You could walk in the next day and say, Good morning, the exact same way. And there’ll be Oh, good morning, and you’re sitting here going, Okay, you know, so there’s no consistency. That’s the thing. And so we learn, the best thing to do is to just disappear. So yeah, their love is absolutely conditional. And that’s where part of where the spotlight syndrome comes in.

It was always about them, they would take credit for things that you did. You know, my dad used to love to do that. He thought he was the greatest opera singer in the world. And if I did anything with a chorus, or choir or anything like that, he would tell everybody how it was all him. And I’m sitting here going, you’re not the one that was doing the hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of practice. Hello. So, they do they march in, and they just, you know, it’s all about them, always has to be about them, always. And if it’s not like, if you contradict a narcissist, this is why I keep telling people don’t try to get them to see what they’re doing it first of all, they don’t want to see. And number two, they’re not going to change, and they will take that information and punish you with it. So, if I tried to correct my dad on something I would never hear the end of it, he would do…. He would do one of two things. He would either do the raging, or he would break into 100,000 million feud. You don’t appreciate me, why don’t you appreciate me? Boo, hoo, hoo. Oh, my freaking god, really? So yeah, they’ll do something that’s not normal. Normal parents don’t behave like that, guys. Normal parents do not behave like that. There is no raging. There is no punishing. There is no, you know, under the spotlight looking at you, what are you doing? What are you wearing? What are you thinking? You know, how dare you laugh so loud? How dare you wear that outfit? How dare you do this? How dare you do that. There’s none of that there is literally none of that. I just spent two weeks with part of my family. They’re wonderful. You know why? healthy, normal, great. Parents love them. So it was wonderful to see good healthy parenting, especially in my life. But again, it goes to parents because they spend therapy and a lot of time working on themselves and a lot of time getting rid of all the fleas. So again, these are fleas. These are fleas. These are fleas. Alright, hold on, let me get to the rest of this article.

You weren’t allowed to have your own feelings needs or your own hobbies. Again, they take over. You were worried about pleasing them or displeasing them. So again, I think that’s a lot of where the spotlight thing comes in. Is because we’re worried what other people think we’re constantly focused outwards, because they’re constantly focused outwards, they depend on other esteem. It’s always other esteem. It’s never self-esteem from them, ever. They don’t have any. So, we learned very quickly to you know, what’s going on? What’s going on? Who’s here? What’s who’s looking? Who’s, who’s judging? Who’s Who do I have to please Who do I have to stay away from? Who do I have to you know, it’s crazy. So again, this comes from the way we were raised? Absolutely. And this and I’m going to go into compliments here in just a minute because I want to I will definitely want to hit this. Yeah, they run hot and cold, they do no wrong. And it really affects us growing up, because, you know, it’s just, it’s what we’ve seen.

So, let’s then roll this into taking compliments and impostor syndrome really quickly. So we, because of all this, quickly get the message that we aren’t worthy, quickly, we get the message that we are not worthy that they’ve let us know in no uncertain terms, that it’s all because of them. Or if we do something good that we’re going to be punished for it and therefore we’re not worthy. So a lot of it is what we were again, it’s a flea so we learn very quickly. It’s not okay to accept compliments to acknowledge ourselves to take credit for where hard work and what we’ve done, etc., etc., etc. So a lot of us grew up with this imposter syndrome. And so we’re waiting for somebody to point the finger you know, kind of like what was that horror movie? The one with the pod people? Oh, where they got replaced Donald Sutherland? No, Donald Pleasance. I always get those two mixed up. Donald Sutherland, at the end of the movie was a pod person and he’s like, you know, and we’re waiting for that we’re waiting for somebody to point the finger and go, you don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re this, you’re that! You’re, you’re a fake, you’re a fraud, bla bla bla bla, so impostor syndrome, and the reason we get that is because of parents, family of origins, teachers, any narcissists, that would take credit, put us down, punish us, you know, for doing something well, or things like that.

So how to start accepting compliments? First of all, you’re going to have to acknowledge that you’re going to feel weird doing it. Okay. First and foremost, it is going to feel weird, you’re not going to feel normal. So, when someone says something nice to us, what do we usually do? We deflect. We do Oh, no, well, you too. No, you’re great. No, you. You’re fabulous. Well, thank you, you’re great, you know, so we immediately deflect, and we immediately get back to them, because that’s what we’ve been trained to do by the narcissist. It’s like, oh, no, it’s all them. They’re fabulous. So that’s what we do. That’s our knee jerk reaction and 99.9% of us.

The other thing we do is we feel incredibly uncomfortable. And we start feeling squirmy inside when somebody gives us a compliment. So this is all part of self-care, self-esteem, and really on warning the fleas squishing the fleas. So again, this is another flea that we learned from having been around a narcissist. So, when somebody gives you a compliment, you’ve got to understand it is going to feel unnatural. It is going to feel weird. It’s going to be uncomfortable. You’re going to want to get rid of it, because that’s the inner child. So, I’m going to encourage you guys inner child workbook, Katherine Taylor, Luccia Cappuccini. Cappuccini No, that’s not her name. Cap, but Cioni cap. It’s not a coffee. You know what I mean? Anyway, so any workbook self-esteem workbook by Glenn Schiraldi, or you are a badass by Jensen Sincero or any of the self-esteem workbooks, you’re going to want to get in touch with that inner child and work on both the spotlight syndrome and the freaked outness about accepting compliments, Hi, little one, it’s okay to accept compliments. It’s okay, no one is going to punish you. Let me say that, again, no one is going to punish you for accepting a compliment. It’s okay.

So, figure out how old you were when you realized it wasn’t okay to accept compliments, figure out how old you were when you realized it wasn’t okay to be in the spotlight. Or when you realized you were suddenly thinking everybody was you know, looking at you, Hey, little one, nobody’s judging you. And if they are, they don’t need to be in your life. You have me to make sure that they stay out. So do you see where I’m going with that? You have your adult be the adult, you have your child be the child and you comfort them and you reassure them, and you start teaching them, hey, we don’t have to give credit where it’s not due. Hey, we can accept compliments and credit for what we have done. You know what I’m saying? So, it’s, it’s, it’s working on the inner child.

So, when somebody pays us a compliment, just understand, you’re going to feel weird. It’s going to feel like, Oh, my God, I can’t accept this. Oh, my God, well, yeah, you can. And you really you should, because it’s part of growing, and it’s part of healing, and it’s part of squishing those fleas. So, when somebody gives you a compliment, what you’re going to do is just recognize you’re going to feel weird. And you simply say, thank you. And that’s it. You don’t need to give it back. Unless you want to, I mean, something, you know, but don’t use that as a deflection. Don’t use that as a way to not really accept the compliment. Compliments from healthy people are truly gifts. They are saying, I see you, I see you. And I’m proud of you. And I love you. And here’s what I love about you. Wow, that’s a gift. So you don’t want to deflect that. Because when they would give compliments or when you got confidence, and you had to give them the credit. It was a game and it was awful. It was horrible. Well, you’re out of that now. So now you get to accept the compliment. You get to love yourself, you get to, you get to and you just simply say thank you. And that’s it. And don’t use the giving a compliment back as deflection. Now if you truly want to compliment somebody, like somebody, you know, said something about my Hawaiian dresses that I wear all the time, and they too had a really cool Hawaiian shirt. I was like, Oh, love your Hawaiian shirt! That’s awesome. But I also let in the compliment about the Hawaiian dress. Does that make sense? So you just simply say thank you and let it percolate through and then notice that the inner critic is going to pop up and be like, Oh, that’s not true. They want something. Thank you for your input. Shut the bleep up. Why? Because I say so. Go pound sand now buh bye now. Do you see where I’m going with that? So, it’s Got to take practice. But this is all connected. You know, the feeling of being in the spotlight, the fear of the spotlight, inability to take compliments, it all is fleas that we have learned from the abuser because it has to be all about them. So, there that is okay. Let’s start answering questions. Shall we?

Okay, I’m going to need to make this bigger because I don’t have my glasses. Do narcissists steal our moment when we achieved something because they themselves didn’t achieve anything and are jealous? Oh, yes. When I graduated, oh, my goodness. When I graduated from my university, my mom acted like it did. Was so cringy Yes. 110% Yeah, they absolutely if you achieve something that they have not achieved or could not achieve, or whatever, they will absolutely seek to ruin the moment. Okay, so let’s be clear. narcissists do not feel. They do not, they cannot, they do not they do not feel emotions the way you and I feel emotions, because in order to feel emotions, healthfully, you need to actually have empathy. They do not have the empathy card at all. They don’t. And if it’s not about them, they will seek to make it about them. And if they cannot make it about them somehow, then they will seek to ruin it. So let me be clear here. They will ruin birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, that’s their favorite drama, honestly, graduations, births, funerals, I’ve seen that too. That’s fascinating. Anything that’s not about them, they will then make about them. And if they cannot make it about them, they will figure out a way to either create chaos and drama. Or they’ll ruin it in some way, shape, or form. Guarantee it take that to the bank. So again, in my book, what’s wrong with your dad when I graduated… My mom never graduated college. She I think had maybe high school education. And that was it. And she never went on. And she never went to college never got a degree. So, I went through even with my dad sabotaging and my mom supporting him 100% You know, it’s kind of like, Wow, mom, thanks for not, you know, standing up for me. But you know, I understand she dad was her mom. There we go. Because my grandmother on her side was a total narc. So okay, so Graduated, went through the ceremony. And what did she do? She picked a fight with me. She picked a fight with me over here’s the funny part. If you guys know me, if you saw my videos before I got a sponsor, you know, I have a mouth on me. I swear like a sailor. Okay, so I was doing my typical Kris thing and talking and swearing and the whole thing. And she picks that moment in time, that particular moment in time at the family house with people there to start an argument with me about swearing. She lost in more ways than one. But it’s that’s what they do. She couldn’t and really what it was really about was the fact that she hadn’t ever graduated and she was jealous. And she was angry. And she was feeling a bunch of stuff that she couldn’t put an emotion to. Because at that point in time, she hadn’t read anything. She hadn’t gone to therapy. She had, you know, little bits of therapy here and there. But she hadn’t really dived into the whole narcissistic abuse thing. And so that’s when she started a fight with me to ruin my graduation, she almost succeeded. And then my older sister stepped in and was like, knock it off to her. So yeah, so that. That was good. And then, you know, my older sister and I talked it through, and that’s when we realized, Oh, she never graduated. Hmm, isn’t that interesting? So yeah, if you achieve something that they have not, yeah, they will set about to ruin it. Absolutely. If you have a family gathering, you know, and it’s fun. And you guys are having a good time, what my dad would do is he would suddenly decide to kick the dog. Just to start an argument and upset all of the kids especially because it was my dog, you know, it just they are just heinous, horrible, heinous, horrible people, and they will ruin anything… family gatherings, weddings, funerals, they’ll suddenly decide to have some medical issue a medical emergency in the middle of a wedding or in the middle of it and there’s nothing going on. I heard that happened to um, so yeah, they’re just heinous, horrible, awful people and they will set about to ruin anything, especially if you do something that they did not or could not do. Yes, they will. Absolutely set about to ruin it. Absolutely.

When a narcissist steals your spotlight to get all the attention, does it go wrong for them at times? That they accidentally expose themselves through that? Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It depends. It depends on the flying monkeys around. And it depends on how conscious aware and awake the people around are. So yeah, it can go wrong for them. You know, obviously, like with my mom, my sister stepped in and was like, knock it off. But it’s as if the people around are healthy, they’re going to be like whispering to each other. Like, What? What? What are you doing? Why are you doing this? What is what is he doing? What is she doing? Why are they doing that? They do. They absolutely do. So, you know, again, personal experience, cleaning out more of my dad’s crap. There were literally I kid you not 20 to 30 copies of every single newspaper where his name was ever mentioned, because he was the city attorney for both cities when I was a kid growing up. And so he was in the newspaper frequently and he literally would run out and buy 20 or 30 copies anytime his name was mentioned. And of course, you know, I the reason I got the title, what’s wrong with your dad? Is because a woman in Gridley walked up to me when I was at spruce pharmacy, which is now no longer Spruce pharmacy, I don’t even know what it’s called anymore. But she walked up to me and she’s like, Oh, you’re so and so’s daughter, aren’t you? And I’m like, Yeah, you know, because immediately I’m always like, This can’t be good. And she looked at me, she’s like, what’s wrong with your dad? And I was like… got about four hours. And I laughed, and I walked out, because I’m not going to engage with a stranger about that. At least at that time. Now I do. But no, I was like, 18 when that happens, so yeah, they their behavior is noticeable to healthy people. It is not noticeable to other narcissists. So flying monkeys, which are either people are just ignorant, or they are minor narcissists themselves, but to healthy people. Yeah, they notice they’re like, What is wrong with this person? Because that behavior is not normal. So yeah, I think it does backfire on them. Does it always backfire on them? Eventually, I think it will, doesn’t always No, probably not. You know, depends on who’s around. And it depends on who’s willing to call it or not. So my sister was strong enough to step in and be like, ah, not doing this lady. You know, this other woman? You know, she was truly curious. I suspect there was a little bit of gossipy stuff going on as well. But you know, it’s like, yeah, people notice people do notice. And I think it’s important to, if you’re still in a situation, you cannot call it out. But if you’re out of the situation, I think it’s perfectly okay to be like back off. You know what I’m saying? And I think more of us need to start doing that. Because like I said, 35 to 45% of the population disordered. So yeah, there that is, um.

Do you think that narcissists will feel contempt for you, when you don’t want what they have? Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. So it’s really, for a narcissist, it’s all about He who has the most toward toys when they die is wins. Right? And they want you to feel jealous and envious. So remember, that’s part of the DSM five, they feel often feel that people are envious or jealous of them, or they’re often envious or jealous of other people. So that is one of the criteria. So yeah, they want you to want what they have. And remember, they are disordered, so they cannot conceive of anyone having a differing opinion than they do. So, say for example, they are into I don’t know something really expensive, like sports cars or something Lamborghinis. Let’s say Lamborghinis, because those are ridiculously expensive. So, let’s say they’re into Lamborghinis. They will expect you if they buy one. And I’m talking about, you know, really wealthy narcissists. If they buy one, they will expect you to be jealous or envious of that. Or if they have artwork, they’ll expect you to be jealous or envious of that. And if you’re just kind of like, Yeah, I’m not into modern art, thanks. You know, they’ll get pissed. They’ll get pissed because you’re not appreciating what they have. And they want you to be envious or jealous. That is one of the criteria. So that’s kind of a interesting thing to observe or to watch, because you basically you can wind them up by having absolutely no interest In what they’re collecting or what they’re doing, or what they like, or what they’re, you know, and they will sit there and try to harangue you about it will put why But why, but why but why like a little kid, so or they get angry and they rage. So yeah, it’s that’s one of the very telling things it’s like because a healthy normal person is able to go, you know, okay, let’s use milkshakes. For example, strawberry, vanilla and chocolate. You know, it’s like, so if the narcissist likes, I don’t know, vanilla, and somebody orders chocolate or strawberry, they come unglued if you didn’t order what they did.  Did they ready to think the way they think? And if they hate chocolate or strawberry, they expect you to hate chocolate or strawberry. So yeah, it’s crazy. It is crazy. But yes, they do become very angry. If you don’t agree with them on anything, it doesn’t even need to be, you know, wanting what they want. It’s like it could be a an opinion. You know, I like the color blue. Oh, I like purple. How dare you like purple? I like blue. You need to like I’m exaggerating, but it’s kind of the same thing. And they’ll harangue you, but why, but why, but why, but why, but why, but why, but why? But why? Because they’re wanting you to change your opinion. Because remember, the world needs to reflect back to them how great they are, and that they are never wrong, and that they are always right. And that’s why they can’t handle differing opinions. Because if somebody has a differing opinion, well, then that means that they’re not the ultimate authority. So yeah, that’s a good question.

How do I help my child not pick up fleas? Okay. So, it’s if you are still in the relationship, or if you are sharing custody, I’ve said this a million times, and I’ll it a million more. When the child comes back from visitation with the narcissist, they are going to have fleas galore. And the first, I would say two days are usually undoing those fleas. So, what will happen is the kid will go over to the narcissist’s house have to do their time with them sounds like going to jail doesn’t Oh, don’t get me started. We need to change the family court systems so badly. Oh, my God, don’t get me started. So, the kid goes over to the Narcissist’s house has to spend their time with them. It’s not safe for them to act out. It’s not safe for them to speak their mind. It’s not safe for them to have an opinion. It’s not safe for them to ask for chocolate or strawberry milkshake because the narcissist won’t allow it. Do you see where I’m going? So then when they come back to the sane parent, they’re going to be acting out like crazy. Why? Because it’s the ego defense mechanism. So, they will not take it out on the abuser because they know the abuser will punish them. So, they come home and they take it out on the sane parent, so that needs to be smacked down. As soon as it starts happening. Nope. Who are you really mad at? Nope, we do not behave this way over this house. No, you’re not going to climb all over the furniture. I mean, do you see where I’m going with that? Like, because the narcissist either has strict super rules over there, or they have no rules at all. Again, it seems to be like extremes. They’re all, nothing, good, black or white. So it’s strict super rules, the kid comes home, they’re going to go, they figure it out and they feel safe again. So basically, as soon as the kid comes back, and they start acting out, you let them know you love them. No, we don’t do this over here. I know it’s not safe to say this to your other parent. But you’re not going to take it out on me. Who are you really angry at? Here’s your journal go write. And then tear up. You know, you don’t need to read it. It’s none of your business. Honestly, what they’re working on is their stuff. They need to know that their journals are safe. The only time that you want to know what’s going on is if you suspect their sexual abuse going on. Seriously, or they’re you suspect they’re being hit over there. So um, yeah, it’s so you want to make sure that they have an outlet, but you also want to let them know. Ah, nope, we’re not doing that. Nope, we do not put up with that over here. We do not behave like this over here. I know you don’t like going over there. You need to journal this out, you know, that kind of thing.

See, this is why I hate the family system because the kids feel unempowered, they do. And, and there’s so little they’re so young. They don’t have the cognitive ability to go Oh, ego defense mechanism. I’m taking out what I really feel about mom or dad over on the sane parent over here. You know, so they can’t, they can’t quite put it together. So you’re going to have to help them. This is what I’m saying is if you’re having to share custody, get them into a damn good trauma therapist. Hard to do especially when you’ve got a parent that’s like no therapy because they don’t want eyes on the situation clearly. So uh, Okay, hold on. Let’s see if that answered that question. Um, okay, so helping them not pick up, fleas. Every time a behavior happens, that is inappropriate you correct them. Yes, I know you do this over your other parent’s house that is not going to fly over here. Here are rules there are their rules, you know, and you just correct them. And it’s like, you don’t want to behave like that. And you cannot allow the child to what’s the word I’m looking for? Kids will learn very quickly to play both ends off the middle. So they will act out to the sane parents tell them that hate them, tell them that they’re awful. How dare you have rules? This parent doesn’t have any rules, how dare you. And you just sit them down and go, you’re allowed to have your emotions however, you need to think about who are you really angry at. And give them an opportunity to journal. And we don’t behave this way over here. And you will not talk to me that way and then have consequences seriously, you know, it’s like, don’t allow them to hold you hostage. And don’t be afraid of them hating you. Because the abuser is pushing that one, bad mouthing you the whole time over there, two to that fear of losing them, or of losing their love is going to cause you to make some really dumb mistakes. Want to keep them so you’re like grasping at them like sand. And instead of grasping at them like sand, you’ve got to hold them like sand in your hand. Because if you grasp that sand, it’s going to slip through your fingers. If you just hold them like this, hold them accountable, hold them with love, hold them with trust, hold them with… do you see where I’m going with that? And all of that sand is not going to go away. But if you’re gripping like that, oh yeah, it’s going to slip through your fingers. And that’s exactly what the abuser wants. The abuser wants you to be fear based. The abuser wants you to do everything you do out of fear. Because if you’re fearful, you’re going to give them everything. If you’re fearful, you’re going to do things that you would not otherwise do out of fear that you’re going to lose your child. Do not make decisions out of fear… seriously. That’s why if you can get to a good trauma therapist, if you’re in the middle of a high contest, highly contested divorce, get to a good trauma therapist to help keep you on an even keel so you don’t start making decisions based in fear. And it’s frustrating because for therapists because people will come and we’ll say hey, don’t do this. Don’t give this concession to them because this is what’s going to happen. But I’m going to lose my child if I don’t no Sweetie, you’re not because honestly, the way it’s set up right now. Judges are 50/50 they are loath to take full custody unless there’s abuse or neglect going on provable, like DCS is involved with that whole thing. So, they give in and they give in and they give in and then there’s no rights. They’re not seeing their kid and it’s like you cannot make decisions based out of fear. You cannot seriously. Get with a good trauma therapist. Make sure you have somebody who understands dealing with a high conflict divorce that can help you manage mitigate your fear so that your decisions are solidly based. Laurie Hellis’ book, The No Nonsense Guide to Divorce great book highly recommended it demystifies the legal profession and demystifies exactly what happens during a divorce because I don’t think people really understand how foreign the courtroom really is. It does not work the way you think it should. So, it’s good to get a really good solid base of what is going on what is happening etc. etc. etc. Okay, let’s see what else do we have?

Why shouldn’t I send a letter I think will make me feel better. Oh Lord, no. Now, now. Sweet. Listen to me now believe me later. angry letters are best for you. There is not an enlightenment stick big enough to whap those idiots upside their head to make them understand what they’ve done. First of all, they don’t care, second of all it will give them pleasure knowing that they’ve hurt you. Do not hand them ammunition. Don’t! The best the best revenge you can give to a narcissist if you can,  absolutely no contact and they never enter your thoughts again. Seriously. So, the angry letters when you write and burn angry letters. This is what I often recommend. When you write and burn angry letters, you do it in no uncertain terms. The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, the horrific, unforgivable at the very, very end, take your power back. You know what, you did all this stuff to me? Guess what? I’m in therapy. I am working on my self-esteem. I’m working on my boundaries. I am living my best life. I’m going to go out in public, I’m going to take myself out to lunch by myself, I don’t care if I had a stain on my shirt. I don’t care if it’s a very old shirt. I’m wearing it, you know, and I’m going to go do what I want to do. And guess what? This is, this is it, we are done. I am done with you. Be Gone.  Be Gone, you know, and then take it out to the barbecue and burn it! Sending it is not going to achieve what you think it’s going to achieve. If you leaving was not enough of a wakeup call for them to figure it the bleep out. You’re sending a letter all that’s going to do is they’re going to get it and they’re going to go Oh, goody, game on, and then you’re going to get a letter back from them.

So let me put it to you this way. My dad divorced his first wife was married to my mom for 45 years. They divorced Lord 47/48 years, probably by the time he died, they sent letters back and forth to each other every week. Every week recrimination, recrimination, recrimination, recrimination, recrimination. recriminate it never stopped, the week he died, we got a letter from his ex-wife, and I’m just like, Are you effing kidding me? So, all it’s going to do is give them fuel for the fire, the best thing to do is to put them in your rearview mirror and never think of them again. And the angry letter is for you to get out all of the stuff that they did. It’s two part here. It’s kind of like validation that yes, this happened. Yes, I was hurt. Yes, I was harmed. And this is goodbye. This is it. This is we’re done. Stick a fork in me. I’m done. You know what I’m saying? It’s like not answering not going to pick up the Hoover not going to talk to you not and you just burn it and you let it go. Narcissists will Hoover, it can take 20 years, but they’ll do it guarantee that at some point in time, they’ll run out of people to use, and they will circle back around. That’s why you’re doing a letter is to remind yourself what you went through the your emotions are valid, that there are POS and you don’t ever need to talk to them again, buh bye, buh bye now! Go pound sand! Buh bye! So it’s not going to get you what you want. They’re going to use whatever you say in that letter, and then it’s just going to start. And that’s what they want. They want the anger, they do! Anger is the only emotion they understand. Because they do that really well. So, if they can hook you and get you to keep going back and forth with them. That’s narcissistic supply, cut them off at their knees, cut them off at their knees. Do not give them anything. All right let’s see here.

Um, being so aware of narcissist or unconscious people seems most people are in these categories. How do we make friends with healthy people? I’m a single mom. And too many of my peers don’t make good choices. Well, it’s going to take discernment. It is it is going to Oh dear, I keep getting a thing saying that our connection is unstable. Hmm. Okay. It’s going to take discernment, and it’s going to take practice, you know, what you’re going to want to do is you’re going to want to have a list of deal breakers. That is a really good thing to do is a list of deal breakers. So, you just write out, you know what you won’t put up with? And yeah, there’s going to be a lot of things that you will not put up with because you shouldn’t put up with disrespect, name calling, bad choices, lots of drama. No, don’t need that. Chaos. No, I don’t need that either. So um, yeah. Do a list of deal  breakers. Does it take time to find a good set of friends? Yeah, it does. And you’re going to have to wade through a lot of them because remember, 35 to 45% of the population is disordered because they’d been raised by disordered parents themselves. And they haven’t sought help. So yeah, if somebody’s working on themselves, then that’s great. You can probably do that. But if they aren’t, No way, man. No way. So okay, let’s see. How are we doing? Is that it? That is, it. Alright guys, go have a great week. And I will talk to you later. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. You can always listen live on YouTube every week Sunday at noon, Arizona Mountain Standard Time. And if you want to find out more or listen to other episodes, you can go to Krisgodinez.com and if you have a chance, subscribe to this show on whatever podcast app you use and let other people know about. I want to thank my sponsor betterhelp.com. They are an online therapy company. Whether you are in the US or international. They will set you up with a qualified licensed therapist. PhD level or Master’s level. If you are interested in more information, go to betterhelp.com/krisgodinez.

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